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Matt700wlw
08-17-2008, 11:00 AM
Bernie Miklasz, St Louis Post Dispatch:

The contract of Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan expires after the season. Will he return? Cardinals management would be making a big mistake to assume it's automatic

Krusty
08-17-2008, 11:00 AM
Bernie Miklasz, St Louis Post Dispatch:
The contract of Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan expires after the season. Will he return? Cardinals management would be making a big mistake to assume it's automatic

Duncan will be there as long as LaRussa is the manager.

Reds4Life
08-17-2008, 11:01 AM
Duncan will be there as long as LaRussa is the manager.

Yup. Unless LaRussa gets fired this offseason, Dunk ain't going anywhere.

KronoRed
08-17-2008, 04:52 PM
I doubt either will be seen around here, Dusty is Bob's man :)

Falls City Beer
08-17-2008, 04:54 PM
I doubt either will be seen around here, Dusty is Bob's man :)

Nah. If Larussa or Duncan were available and Bob could afford them, they'd be here in a heartbeat. Dusty was the consolation prize. That's pretty much public knowledge.

KronoRed
08-17-2008, 05:04 PM
Nah. If Larussa or Duncan were available and Bob could afford them, they'd be here in a heartbeat. Dusty was the consolation prize. That's pretty much public knowledge.

I'd have rather had a years worth of cat litter.

VR
08-17-2008, 05:11 PM
I'd have rather had a years worth of cat litter.

You are great under valuing kitty litter. Did you mean 'used' kitty litter?

westofyou
08-17-2008, 05:19 PM
Yup. Unless LaRussa gets fired this offseason, Dunk ain't going anywhere.

They are package deal, LaRussa lost the White Sox job because Hawk Harrelson hired his guy and fired Duncan.

Reds4Life
08-17-2008, 05:45 PM
They are package deal, LaRussa lost the White Sox job because Hawk Harrelson hired his guy and fired Duncan.

LaRussa has a contract for next season, which he can be forced to honor, even if they don't re-up Duncan.

In any case, I don't see any reason why St. Louis won't offer him a new contract. They'd be stupid to let him go.

Team Clark
08-17-2008, 05:50 PM
LaRussa has a contract for next season, which he can be forced to honor, even if they don't re-up Duncan.

In any case, I don't see any reason why St. Louis won't offer him a new contract. They'd be stupid to let him go.

They guy is simply the best there is. You let him go.... you have problems.

GAC
08-17-2008, 09:23 PM
They guy is simply the best there is. You let him go.... you have problems.

Yeah. It's not like the guy is Walt Jocketty! :p:

Team Clark
08-18-2008, 09:25 AM
Yeah. It's not like the guy is Walt Jocketty! :p:

:D I say stink, you say stunk... in the end this club is in trouble. Duncan would at least have some fun working with Volquez and Cueto. :thumbup:

princeton
08-18-2008, 09:34 AM
Duncan's worth more than 16 year old Latin American OFers, IMO

cumberlandreds
08-18-2008, 10:23 AM
LaRussa has a contract for next season, which he can be forced to honor, even if they don't re-up Duncan.

In any case, I don't see any reason why St. Louis won't offer him a new contract. They'd be stupid to let him go.

If Duncan doesn't come back to the Cards I would bet Larussa will "retire" than to comeback without his right arm (Duncan).

wheels
08-18-2008, 11:29 AM
Forget about Duncan.

Go after Mazzone. Walt of all people should know the value of an elite pitching coach.

VR
08-18-2008, 11:32 AM
Forget about Duncan.

Go after Mazzone. Walt of all people should know the value of an elite pitching coach.

Part of me wonders if Jocketty believes it was DD, or his masterful ability to acquire dreck with potential.

westofyou
08-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Part of me wonders if Jocketty believes it was DD, or his masterful ability to acquire dreck with potential.

He probably remembers Storm Davis so I'd say it's the former.

VR
08-18-2008, 02:16 PM
He probably remembers Storm Davis so I'd say it's the former.

It's a long list.....Lamar Hoyt, Eckersly, Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson et al.

That said, a GM's ego can credit the StL success to his own Midas touch quite easily.

In a perfect world, I'd like to imagine WJ worked very closely w/ TL and DD to understand the makeup of players that they could plug into their program, and see his role as GM as a minor one.

If not, we're in for the acquisition of plenty of lemons over the winter.....only to find out the manager and the coaches do not possess the recipe for lemonade.

Chip R
08-18-2008, 02:41 PM
Duncan's worth more than 16 year old Latin American OFers, IMO


That's true but Duncan is not a free agent.

princeton
08-18-2008, 11:30 PM
That's true but Duncan is not a free agent.


Bernie Miklasz, St Louis Post Dispatch:

The contract of Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan expires after the season.

Chip R
08-19-2008, 01:48 AM
Like I said, he is not now and he was not at the nd of last season. If he were, it wouldn't have been a stretch to say he and Tony would have been hired by Walt. They are a package deal. You won't get one without the other. The Cards are smart if they stagger Tony's and Duncan's deals like that.

Mario-Rijo
08-19-2008, 04:43 AM
It's a long list.....Lamar Hoyt, Eckersly, Dave Stewart, Bob Welch, Mike Moore, Scott Sanderson et al.

That said, a GM's ego can credit the StL success to his own Midas touch quite easily.

In a perfect world, I'd like to imagine WJ worked very closely w/ TL and DD to understand the makeup of players that they could plug into their program, and see his role as GM as a minor one.

If not, we're in for the acquisition of plenty of lemons over the winter.....only to find out the manager and the coaches do not possess the recipe for lemonade.

Right on point and I agree it's all about LaRussa and Duncan IMO that made up the Cards success. Walt certainly had his role but like you intimate it was a much smaller role in comparison to the coaching. I too hope Walt recognizes that point. Problem is Baker isn't likely to be let go although it's the right move. Duncan would be great but I assume he will ride out that last year with LaRussa and then see how he feels once TL's contract is up.

Mario-Rijo
08-19-2008, 04:45 AM
Like I said, he is not now and he was not at the nd of last season. If he were, it wouldn't have been a stretch to say he and Tony would have been hired by Walt. They are a package deal. You won't get one without the other. The Cards are smart if they stagger Tony's and Duncan's deals like that.

If I'm not mistaken it sounded like LaRussa at the time he re-upped intimated he was done after this deal so I can't see Duncan signing for anything more than 1 season. What he does after that is anyone's guess but LaRussa may not be around for it to be a package deal.

*BaseClogger*
08-20-2008, 02:15 AM
Part of me wonders if Jocketty believes it was DD, or his masterful ability to acquire dreck with potential.

or putting together great defenses...

VR
08-20-2008, 01:33 PM
or putting together great defenses...

I think you've touched on it. "Putting together great defenses", quite often with mediocre defensive players.

Superior scouting and positioning, coupled with a focus on fundamentals is what drives that superior defense (and baserunning, and pitching, and hitting....) for the Cards.

princeton
08-20-2008, 01:48 PM
Like I said.

Bernie Miklacz replies: Chip R can take Duncan for granted but Cardinals should not.

westofyou
09-05-2008, 11:37 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/E52B50BA874264B0862574BB001580B0?OpenDocument






La Russa expects commitment from club


By Joe Strauss
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
09/05/2008

PHOENIX Just over three weeks remain in the first installment of his two-year contract. Tony La Russa says he likes his team and likes his job.

But with the Cardinals listing toward a second straight postseason miss, the third-winningest manager in the game's history would also like to believe the organization will again prove its commitment to fortifying itself this winter via an aggressive search for what he considers "impact" help.

"I would anticipate ownership and the front office are excited about us making a significant improvement for next season," La Russa said. "If we had a losing season, you could make the same comment. But if you're a losing club, 'significant' could mean getting to .500. We've got the components here. You're adding to something good."

The Cardinals have answered last season's 78-84 downer with a 75-65 record that contradicted the low expectations that greeted them at spring training.


What widely was considered a "transitional" year left the Cardinals tied for the wild-card lead as late as Aug. 1 and at 14 games over .500 as recently as Aug. 28.

La Russa and his team have risen and fallen since last October's front-office overhaul and subsequent emphasis on organizational self-sufficiency grounded in player development.

That said, a baseball lifer who describes himself as "not a long-range thinker" hopes the club will make every effort this offseason to pull abreast of the well-monied Chicago Cubs and the recently emboldened

Milwaukee Brewers.

"The idea is if you have a chance to finish first, then finish first or at least contend for first," La Russa said. "When this season started, you didn't know how this team was going to play. Well, we've played pretty damn good. We're closer to first place than we are the second division (of NL teams). I would think the idea this winter is to make some significant additions so we can be there."

The Cardinals were four games out of first place in a second-place tie with the Brewers when the nonwaiver trade deadline passed before their July 31 game against the Braves.

Choosing to retain their prospects rather than answer earlier moves by the Chicago Cubs and Brewers, the Cardinals since have gone 14-16 to fall to the fringe of contention.

Asked if he chagrined at the lack of movement, La Russa said, "I would never answer that question. That's a private opinion I would share with the organization. There are no points to be made by saying I agree or disagree."

Others within the clubhouse are privately less politically correct, construing a lack of movement as a vote of no-confidence in a team that arguably overachieved for four months.

La Russa does make clear that he does not see all the answers to his team's numerous holes arriving from within the system.

"You have your prospects. And it's good to publicize how good they are. But you want to be realistic with what you have. We've seen a lot of players; we've seen some pitchers. But you have to ask yourself, is there an impact guy within your system, like an Albert (Pujols)? If (Adam) Wainwright was from our system, is there a guy like him?" La Russa said. "We're going to need some impact. Is that there, or is there someone who fits the next category legitimate help?"

After a run of six postseason appearances in eight years and a run of 10 seasons of 3 million attendance since 1998, La Russa is aware that some accuse the organization of complacency. "I hear it all the time," he said.

This winter, he believes, offers an opportunity for rebuttal.

"The concern I hear the most is: Is the organization satisfied? We've had a nice run in the playoffs. We have a nice crowd. We have a nice ballpark. We're contending. I'd be disappointed if that's the case. I don't believe that's true. But we have something to prove in that direction. We have some fair needs. We have to make our best effort to fill those needs, I would think."

In his 13th season with the Cardinals, La Russa is well aware that sizable contracts belonging to closer Jason Isringhausen, starting pitchers Braden Looper, Kyle Lohse and Mark Mulder, disabled right fielder Juan Encarnacion, shortstop Cesar Izturis and reliever Russ Springer expire after this season.

"I get some credit for being competitive. If I lose some competitive desire, then I don't deserve that compliment. It's up to me and to the nine on the field to prove that we're competitive every game. You can't rely on what you've done in the past. I never have," La Russa said. "I think the issues are out there and it's up to the organization to prove if they want to have a fighting chance to finish first. The only way you do that is by your actions, not by the benefit of what you've done. It's always what you do next. If you lose sight of that you're making a big mistake."

La Russa, who turns 64 on Oct. 4 and pondered his future after last October's firing of general manager Walt Jocketty, suggests no such ambivalence now.

"If I'm managing next year, I'm managing here," he said.

However, La Russa does not discount growing speculation that he could eventually go elsewhere as general manager. A crush of GM jobs is expected to become available shortly after this season, including in Seattle, Toronto and potentially Washington and San Francisco.

La Russa said any question about a future front office move was "not absurd; but right now it's just not pertinent."

La Russa believes he shares an effective relationship with general manager John Mozeliak, whom he suggested had much to prove upon succeeding Jocketty.

"He's a smart guy. There are 30 teams and he's got one of 30 jobs. He's working his ass off to prove he deserves to keep it," La Russa said.

Among the team's pending free agents is pitching coach and La Russa confidante Dave Duncan. Though ownership has insisted it will do what is required to retain Duncan, an undercurrent of uncertainty persists after the club refused to rework Duncan's deal last winter.

"I've always said where he coaches is where I want to manage. But that's not true this year because I've got a contract," La Russa said. "If he wants to coach someplace else and he gets a better deal, I wish him well and I would never drop a guilt trip on him. That would not be like a friend."

fearofpopvol1
09-05-2008, 01:32 PM
C'mon Walt. You know this guy. BCast needs to pony up and make this happen.

Reds4Life
09-05-2008, 01:58 PM
C'mon Walt. You know this guy. BCast needs to pony up and make this happen.

I think we have a better chance of Dusty Baker being given a pink slip at the end of the season than we do of Duncan coming to Cincinnati. St. Louis will offer up a nice deal to keep LaRussa happy. TLR and Duncan have been a combo for a long time, even more money might not be enough to make Duncan leave a close friend.

fearofpopvol1
09-05-2008, 08:29 PM
I think we have a better chance of Dusty Baker being given a pink slip at the end of the season than we do of Duncan coming to Cincinnati. St. Louis will offer up a nice deal to keep LaRussa happy. TLR and Duncan have been a combo for a long time, even more money might not be enough to make Duncan leave a close friend.

I'd rather pay Dave Duncan Dusty's salary then pay Dusty it.

OnBaseMachine
09-07-2008, 05:49 PM
There's a growing rumor that Cardinals manager Tony La Russa could step down after this season and pursue a job as a general manager. We all know Seattle's looking...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Reds4Life
09-07-2008, 06:37 PM
Maybe he just wants out of St. Louis. I'd take him..........bye Dusty. Sadly, the money we'd have to pay to get rid of Dusty, plus the contract for LaRussa, would be significant.

Spring~Fields
09-07-2008, 06:41 PM
But with the Cardinals listing toward a second straight postseason miss, the third-winningest manager in the game's history would also like to believe the organization will again prove its commitment to fortifying itself this winter via an aggressive search for what he considers "impact" help.

"I would anticipate ownership and the front office are excited about us making a significant improvement for next season," La Russa said. "If we had a losing season, you could make the same comment. But if you're a losing club, 'significant' could mean getting to .500. We've got the components here. You're adding to something good."

The man is targeting the right people and he is serious about the Cardinals improving their team, I suspect that they will.

gm
09-09-2008, 06:39 PM
Asked if he chagrined at the lack of movement, La Russa said, "I would never answer that question. That's a private opinion I would share with the organization. There are no points to be made by saying I agree or disagree."

Others within the clubhouse are privately less politically correct, construing a lack of movement as a vote of no-confidence in a team that arguably overachieved for four months.

Sounds like TLR misses some guy named Jocketty