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View Full Version : The Three Guys for Dunn...



BLEEDS
08-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy
It's Buck, Owings, and Castillo

So:

A Defensive-minded young catcher
A Tommy John recovering A baller with tons of potential
A Rick-Ankiel-light possibility.

The catcher is the most major-league ready - albeit stick-less.

Buck is as useful as a comp pick IMO, since he won't be in the majors anytime soon, if at all, so no better than a high draft pick - sans the signing bonus.

To me, it all hinges on Owings.
If he can return to his 4.3 ERA/1.3 WHIP than he's useful in the short-term for us, which makes it a better deal than 2 comp picks.


of note: Buck did go 5 innings of 1hit, 4K ball in his first stint. That's promising. Still, pretty far to go.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-19-2008, 01:07 PM
I agree that it all hinges on Owings, and I think that IMO this trade (although he is worth more) was better than getting comp picks. That is just my opinion though.

mroby85
08-19-2008, 02:14 PM
Newsflash, Dunn wasn't that great either.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-19-2008, 02:45 PM
while dunn might not have been great.. we also cant give up on owings as a pitcher.. he might be better than ankiel as an all around player.. but he hasnt sunk to nothing as a pitcher quite yet..

Nasty_Boy
08-19-2008, 02:47 PM
Newsflash, Dunn wasn't that great either.

Newsflash... You're wrong.

Anyways... I think Buck will be the best of the bunch. Owings doesn't impress me as a pitcher and I think he'll give up a large number of HRs in GABP. He might be better suited for relief. Buck is still working his way back, but if he gets his velocity back in the 92-93 range he will be very a welcome sight because he is an extreme ground ball pitcher. I'm happy about the acquisition of Castillo because if nothting else, he's not Bako Valentine Ross Moeller or LaRue. Back to Owings... I think that the Reds should really think outside the box with him. He throws hard and he could probably throw harder in relief. Myabe he could be a 1B backup and a RH bat off the bench while still being available in relief. He's obviously a very talented baseball player... Maybe the Reds should try to maximize that talent.

Griffey012
08-19-2008, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy
It's Buck, Owings, and Castillo

So:

A Defensive-minded young catcher
A Tommy John recovering A baller with tons of potential
A Rick-Ankiel-light possibility.

The catcher is the most major-league ready - albeit stick-less.

Buck is as useful as a comp pick IMO, since he won't be in the majors anytime soon, if at all, so no better than a high draft pick - sans the signing bonus.

To me, it all hinges on Owings.
If he can return to his 4.3 ERA/1.3 WHIP than he's useful in the short-term for us, which makes it a better deal than 2 comp picks.


of note: Buck did go 5 innings of 1hit, 4K ball in his first stint. That's promising. Still, pretty far to go.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


How about Babe Ruth light instead, Ankiel's batting numbers as a pitcher compared to Owings as a pitcher is like comparing Edwin to Pujols. :D

Griffey012
08-19-2008, 02:57 PM
I think people are over looking Castillo. He is good defensively and I am assuming he has a good arm since he has played some SS. However, he isn't going to be a slouch at the plate. Doesn't K which is a welcome sight from our previous catchers. And he also has some speed which is also a far cry from our catchers. He won't be great but I could see him being a .250 hitter who can handle the bat well, and be our catcher until we figure out Mesoraco.

tommycash
08-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Newsflash, Dunn wasn't that great either.

I am not Dunn's biggest fan nor am I his biggest critic. I always thought that if the Reds had a right handed power hitter to compliment him, Dunn would have been doing things that would please mostly everyone. That never happened. But surely Adam Dunn is worth more in a trade than one guy who is major league ready (but far from being a star) and two guys who may never pan out at all. I am not saying the Reds got shafted, with Dunn's contract coming up, I think we did much better than we could have in the supplemental draft. Don't you think Dunn would have yielded more in a trade if he had more years on his contract?

Orodle
08-19-2008, 03:05 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but dont you have to offer arbitration to a player before letting him go to recieve the compansation picks? This deal makes it clear to me the Reds didnt want him back because there is a good chance Dunn would have taken them up on the arbitration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy
It's Buck, Owings, and Castillo

So:

A Defensive-minded young catcher
A Tommy John recovering A baller with tons of potential
A Rick-Ankiel-light possibility.

The catcher is the most major-league ready - albeit stick-less.

Buck is as useful as a comp pick IMO, since he won't be in the majors anytime soon, if at all, so no better than a high draft pick - sans the signing bonus.

To me, it all hinges on Owings.
If he can return to his 4.3 ERA/1.3 WHIP than he's useful in the short-term for us, which makes it a better deal than 2 comp picks.


of note: Buck did go 5 innings of 1hit, 4K ball in his first stint. That's promising. Still, pretty far to go.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

ChatterRed
08-19-2008, 03:55 PM
Newsflash... You're wrong.



Newsflash. You're double dog wrong! :D

Nasty_Boy
08-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Newsflash. You're double dog wrong! :D

Newsflash... Nuh Uhh!

BLEEDS
08-19-2008, 03:59 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but dont you have to offer arbitration to a player before letting him go to recieve the compansation picks? This deal makes it clear to me the Reds didnt want him back because there is a good chance Dunn would have taken them up on the arbitration.

Yes. No way would have have accepted it - for some reason only those who bash Dunn believe that would be the case. :dunno:

He was looking for the BIG Guaranteed Deal.

You'll see he'll get the same thing from Arizona, part of the reason they were willing to give up 3 guys AND pay 1/2 his remaining salary - they're going to get 2 comp picks back now.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

redsbuckeye
08-19-2008, 04:01 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but dont you have to offer arbitration to a player before letting him go to recieve the compansation picks? This deal makes it clear to me the Reds didnt want him back because there is a good chance Dunn would have taken them up on the arbitration.

Dunn's incentive for taking an arbitration deal is practically nil.

In arb he'd be getting at least 13 million but I can't see him getting much more than that.

Even on the open market, if he takes less than that per year he's still better off taking a multi-year dear because almost all baseball money is gauranteed. If he got 11 mil per year for 3 years, that's 33 mil in gauranteed money, as opposed to only 13. The security of multi-year deals makes it better to take them.

redsbuckeye
08-19-2008, 04:01 PM
Newsflash. You're double dog wrong! :D

NEWSFLASH: I liek grapes!

krm1580
08-19-2008, 04:15 PM
Newsflash... You're wrong.

Anyways... I think Buck will be the best of the bunch. Owings doesn't impress me as a pitcher and I think he'll give up a large number of HRs in GABP. He might be better suited for relief. Buck is still working his way back, but if he gets his velocity back in the 92-93 range he will be very a welcome sight because he is an extreme ground ball pitcher. I'm happy about the acquisition of Castillo because if nothting else, he's not Bako Valentine Ross Moeller or LaRue. Back to Owings... I think that the Reds should really think outside the box with him. He throws hard and he could probably throw harder in relief. Myabe he could be a 1B backup and a RH bat off the bench while still being available in relief. He's obviously a very talented baseball player... Maybe the Reds should try to maximize that talent.

I agree with you 100%. I think Buck is the only guy out of the bunch that has the potential to make a significant contribution to this team. Based on his stuff and extreme groundball tendencies he could be a decent starter. That fact that he is going to be 24 to start next season is disconcerting, but what are you gonna do.

Owings you are right on. He is an extreme flyball pitcher and I fear will provide Miltonesque HR totals if he is in the rotation. On the other hand you could do some pretty creative things with him out of the pen and pinch hitting. I remember a Mets game back in 1986 or 1987 when Davey Johnson put Roger McDowell in LF and had Jesse Orosco pitching. When a right hander came up he swapped them where Orosco woudl go out to LF and McDowell would pitch. Of course we have DuHsty, so pinch hitting for a pitcher is about as creative as he gets.

I(heart)Freel
08-19-2008, 06:40 PM
It's important to remember in reviewing this trade that we only had one team to negotiate with. Which was my criticism of the deal.

So it was either take what we could milk from Arizona or get the 2 comp draft picks and pay all of Dunn's remaining salary.

I still like the trade, because I do think all 3 players have something to offer the Reds in the near and not-so-near future. Maybe moreso because I think you can't turn the page as an organization (focus on pitching and defense) if Dunn is still out there.

If the organization wanted to say it's a new day in Redsland, they needed to signal that with a move like this.

But unfortunately the Reds tied their own hands by not being able to make a better deal before the waiver deadline.

Newman4
08-19-2008, 10:20 PM
I have a friend who is a Dbacks fan (who thinks THEY got shafted btw) and he says Owings can absolutely rake. He says that there is no doubt if he doesn't make it as a pitcher he could be a position player. Although, he thinks we'll see more of a #3 starter next season and Owings pitched injured much of the season. He says the other two aren't slouches either.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-19-2008, 10:36 PM
I don't think we would have got anything more for Dunn if we just let him go at the end of the year, quite frankly. There's question marks either way. The MLB Draft may as wel lbe renamed the MLB Powerball, since you have no idea who's going to do well.

Nasty_Boy
08-19-2008, 11:06 PM
Just because its a Dunn thread... He just hit a 2 run HR. He's 1-2 with an HR, BB, and 2 runs scored tonight.

Newman4
08-20-2008, 07:23 AM
I don't think we would have got anything more for Dunn if we just let him go at the end of the year, quite frankly. There's question marks either way. The MLB Draft may as wel lbe renamed the MLB Powerball, since you have no idea who's going to do well.

The Draft is more expensive it seems too. At least you have a better idea what you have and how much they're going to cost with the 3 players received in the trade. Sandwich picks tend to be guys that have slipped due to signability that want big $$$ or lesser talent. I am optomistic that the 3 guys > 2 Sandwich picks

roby
08-20-2008, 02:46 PM
I think people are over looking Castillo. He is good defensively and I am assuming he has a good arm since he has played some SS. However, he isn't going to be a slouch at the plate. Doesn't K which is a welcome sight from our previous catchers. And he also has some speed which is also a far cry from our catchers. He won't be great but I could see him being a .250 hitter who can handle the bat well, and be our catcher until we figure out Mesoraco.

Could he be a Joe Oliver with speed?

roby
08-20-2008, 02:49 PM
NEWSFLASH: I liek grapes!

Newsflash...You're dyslexic!

redsbuckeye
08-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Newsflash...You're dyslexic!

FLASHNEWS: Am not I! Are you!

ChatterRed
08-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Newsflash... Nuh Uhh!

Newsflash.......Yuh Huh!!!! :cool:

UPRedsFan
08-20-2008, 11:53 PM
FLASHNEWS: Am not I! Are you!

Yoda? I didn't know you were a Reds fan!

CarolinaRedleg
08-21-2008, 12:04 AM
Yoda? I didn't know you were a Reds fan!

Well, with this version of the Reds, there's certainly more "do not" than "do" and there definitely is no try. :D

Griffey012
08-21-2008, 12:14 AM
Could he be a Joe Oliver with speed?

Only being 22, I don't know a great deal about Joe Oliver, because I was less than 10 years old for most of his reds career. But looking at the stats, he looks like a decent comparison if you add in the speed factor Castillo has. I dont know much about Oliver's defensive skills though.

roby
08-21-2008, 12:22 AM
FLASHNEWS: Am not I! Are you!

Good one! :thumbup:

Ghosts of 1990
08-21-2008, 07:41 AM
Newsflash, Dunn wasn't that great either.

haha wow.

Hondo
08-23-2008, 01:18 PM
I would have rather had the draft picks