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WVRedsFan
08-20-2008, 01:08 AM
Going into the first game after the All-Star break, the Reds stood at 46-50 and then the bottom fell out. Since the Reds have gone 9-21, averaging 3.9 runs per game while the opposition has averaged 5.7 runs per game. That's huge.

Since Ken Griffey Junior was traded the Reds have gone 5-13, scoring an average of 3.1 runs per game while the opposition has scored an average of, unbelievably. 5.7 runs per game. Fantastic.

Since Adam Dunn was traded, the Reds have gone 3-4, scoring an average of 3.3 runs per game, while the opposition scored 4.2 runs per game--a little bit better. That's 8-17 since the two most maligned players in recent history have been deleted from the roster.

This team needs offense, as you can see, but the pitching hasn't been anything to write home about. The injury to Burton hurt, but if one pitcher can cause this much of a discrepency, then we are truly in trouble.

If no changes are made we could score less than 550 runs next year. What kind of pitching staff would we need for that?

In the zeal of stressing pitching and defense (what defense as shown tonight?), we have emasculated our team, depending on streaky players like Edwin Encarnacion, Brandon Phillips, and even (horrors!) Jay Bruce to supply the offense (did I mention Jeff Keppinger and rookie Joey Votto?). Ain't gonna work. Time for Big Walt to do some magic or else we are in deep poo-poo.

RedsBaron
08-20-2008, 09:09 AM
But I read on the Sun Deck that once Dunn is gone, "the winning will begin." :confused:

Cyclone792
08-20-2008, 09:29 AM
Since Dunn was traded, the team is hitting .235/.276/.422/.698.

They have only 14 walks in 249 plate appearances, a rate of one walk every 17.49 plate appearances. For reference purposes, the NL average this season is one walk every 11.40 plate appearances.

If Jocketty doesn't wave the magic wand and do something creative this offseason, next season's offense may very well be absolutely brutal to watch.

RedsBaron
08-20-2008, 10:31 AM
Since Dunn was traded, the team is hitting .235/.276/.422/.698.

They have only 14 walks in 249 plate appearances, a rate of one walk every 17.49 plate appearances. For reference purposes, the NL average this season is one walk every 11.40 plate appearances.

If Jocketty doesn't wave the magic wand and do something creative this offseason, next season's offense may very well be absolutely brutal to watch.

At least the Reds are not clogging the bases. :rolleyes:

HokieRed
08-20-2008, 10:45 AM
95 losses this year, 90 next, then things start to get better. There's no postponing the pain any longer.

RedEye
08-20-2008, 11:14 AM
95 losses this year, 90 next, then things start to get better. There's no postponing the pain any longer.

You think next year's team will be better than this one?

OnBaseMachine
08-20-2008, 11:45 AM
You think next year's team will be better than this one?

I think so. I have to think Aaron Harang is going to bounce back and become an above average pitcher like before. We'll never see the 2006 Bronson Arroyo again but I think he's going to pitch better and bring his ERA down around the 4.50 mark next season. Johnny Cueto will improve most likely. Jared Burton will be back. Guys like Gary Majewski and Josh Fogg will be replaced by better arms like Josh Roenicke. Jay Bruce and Joey Votto should improve, while Brandon Phillips and Edwin Encarnacion will each move one year closer to their prime. I'm not even factoring in that Jocketty will make some moves in the offseason to improve the team. While I don't know if they'll improve enough to make a run at the playoffs I do they think improve a pretty good bit.

HokieRed
08-20-2008, 12:42 PM
I think next year's team will be slightly better because I think you'll get more consistent pitching, particularly in the second half of the season. Volquez will probably regress a bit, but Cueto, Harang (if healthy) and whoever is the 5 will probably get somewhat better as they get more experience (Cueto, Homer, Owings, whoever). But I don't look for them to be very much better because the offense is still going to be very weak. WJ will do some things to improve it, but there's just too much to do without some help from the farm system and some maturation on the part of guys we have now or who are close (like a Rosales or one of the catchers). There's been too much denial, too long. Now we are forced to do the long-term rebuild that should have been started several years ago--but which requires a GM with a stronger hand than Krivsky was ever really allowed to have.

Joseph
08-20-2008, 12:53 PM
I think so. I have to think Aaron Harang is going to bounce back and become an above average pitcher like before. We'll never see the 2006 Bronson Arroyo again but I think he's going to pitch better and bring his ERA down around the 4.50 mark next season. Johnny Cueto will improve most likely. Jared Burton will be back. Guys like Gary Majewski and Josh Fogg will be replaced by better arms like Josh Roenicke. Jay Bruce and Joey Votto should improve, while Brandon Phillips and Edwin Encarnacion will each move one year closer to their prime. I'm not even factoring in that Jocketty will make some moves in the offseason to improve the team. While I don't know if they'll improve enough to make a run at the playoffs I do they think improve a pretty good bit.

The only flaw in that thought process is that Jocketty may well deal some of those names you are mentioning as being better next season.

KronoRed
08-20-2008, 01:31 PM
But I read on the Sun Deck that once Dunn is gone, "the winning will begin." :confused:

Trust me, whenever the winning begins, next year or 2020, it will be because Dunn is hone ;)

WVRedsFan
08-20-2008, 02:15 PM
The only flaw in that thought process is that Jocketty may well deal some of those names you are mentioning as being better next season.

Exactly. I firmly believe that Homer Bailey, Bronson Arroyo, and Edwin Encarnacion will be traded in the off season. I also believe that we are in for a long dry spell somewhat like the Rays endured before finally breaking through. And, believe it or not, that's what it will take unless WJ gets some bangers through free agency.