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muethibp
08-22-2008, 08:51 AM
What I have found interesting this year when the Reds have kicked one time contributors or high contract players to the curb is that no one else has appeared even remotely interested. Mike Stanton would have signed for the minimum, I am sure, and never pitched again. Scott Hatteberg never took the field again. Ross cleared waivers and was released outright, to sign a minor league deal. These are players that teams could have nothing more than the minimum salary and even then they are out of major league work.

Let that be a lesson to everyone that wants to package our crappy players and bad contracts to another team for major league talent. It doesn't happen. Our trash is as bad (or seemingly worse) than everyone else.

markymark69
08-22-2008, 09:44 AM
You mean we couldn't have traded Juan Castro, Todd Coffey, Corey Patterson and Josh Fogg for a No. 2 starter? :D

ChatterRed
08-22-2008, 10:10 AM
I really thought we could have gotten Johan Santana for those 4. ;)

CRedsLarkin11
08-22-2008, 02:07 PM
And we still have a few more left, let's hope they go by the wayside in the offseason

big boy
08-22-2008, 02:46 PM
This was Krivsky's biggest flaw. He signed turd after turd to contracts that far exceeded their worth.

Ghosts of 1990
08-22-2008, 03:27 PM
This was Krivsky's biggest flaw. He signed turd after turd to contracts that far exceeded their worth.

great point.

superred
08-22-2008, 04:12 PM
hatteburg wasnt bad, everyone else couldnt have done well in the minors

muethibp
08-22-2008, 04:17 PM
This was Krivsky's biggest flaw. He signed turd after turd to contracts that far exceeded their worth.

He certainly did that, you're right. And he seemed to think the collective bargaining agreement required 2 year contracts. If you have to overpay someone but you keep the contract to a year, then I get it. He overpaid and tacked on years.

I agree with the poster that defended the Hatteberg signing. Scott was a good player for us, his 2006 and 2007 numbers were fine and he clearly outperformed his relatively modest contract.

RED VAN HOT
08-22-2008, 05:28 PM
IMO this is part of a larger change in how players are valued. Several years ago when free agent salaries were escalating, one of the big complaints was the high price of mediocrity. Average players were commanding multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts. A mistake in awarding such a contract not only hurts financially, it may well block a deserving minor leaguer from getting a shot. I think organizations have begun to value their own prospects more highly and are more inclined to promote from within than to sign a marginal major leaguer in his 30's.

As anecdotal evidence of this, look how reluctant teams have been to part with prospects for veterans they need. The Yankees took a chance on Sidney Ponson rather than trade prospects for a starter with more potential. WJ noted that there was interest in some 'Reds players, but the prospects offered did not merit making the trade. Further, teams are deciding early which players are worth the high costs. I think we will see more Evan Longoria type contracts. Oakland and Minnesota have shown a willingness to deal good players before their free agent years. They are in effect, making a decision that the cost of retaining these players is not worth the risks for a small market team.

Finally, I think the end of the steroid era is resulting in a revaluing of speed and defense. Minor leaguers who previously would have been overlooked as average hitters are now being valued more highly.

My hunch is that premium free agents will continue to command high salaries as long as there are enough rich teams to bid against each other. The lesser FA's, once sought by small markets teams, will languish in a slow market. Signings will occur later in the year, only after organizations have concluded that there are specific roles that cannot be filled from within.

muethibp
09-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Update on our former friends:

Scott Hatteberg - never played again

Mike Stanton - never played again

David Ross - signed a minor league deal with the Red Sox, spent 10 days in the minors, was called up the other day when (ironically) Sean Casey was DL'ed.

Felipe Lopez - let go by the Nationals after hitting .245 in 600 plate appearances last year and then .234 in another 325 appearances this year. Signs with the Cards where he entered their magic fountain of youth (and talent, apparently) as he is OPS'ing .912 in 72 at bats for them.

Austin Kearns - been on the DL at least twice this year, had an OPS of .766 last year in almost 600 at bats, an OPS of .627 this year in another 313 at bats. If he had enough at bats to qualify for ESPN's stat page (he does not) that OPS would put him at 76 out of 78 NL hitters.

Adam Dunn - 82 plate appearances since the trade, played every game, a gaudy .488 on base percentage helped along by 24 walks, a .988 OPS. 3 home runs and 12 RBIs, which would project out to something like 30 home runs and 90 RBIs for the season. So, pretty much business as usual.

KGJ - 84 plate appearances since the trade, batting .250, OPS of .692 (for context, it was .787 for us), 1 HR, 9 RBIs. Has not played in 8 games in the 33 days since the trade and also had just one at bat in 2 others.

Juan Castro - after we released him, the Orioles have given him 111 at bats. His OPS is a smooth .558.

ChatterRed
09-03-2008, 04:08 PM
In other words, Cincy got the best of that trade that unloaded Kearns and Lopez. ;)

carmack42
09-03-2008, 05:44 PM
Has Hatte formally retired?

walk-off
09-04-2008, 12:20 AM
Has Hatte formally retired?

I ran in to a high school buddy of his on vacation near Seattle. He told me Hatte was done, and I sensed a little bitterness towards the Reds for going with Votto. I told him I loved Hatte and he had a fantastic career and he had a lot to be proud of, but it I thought going with Votto was the right choice, and when nobody else picked him up, it seemed to accent the fact he was at the end of a fine career...