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View Full Version : If we added Lowe, could we compete for a playoff spot next season?



Kingspoint
08-22-2008, 09:17 AM
....I think that would give us a chance at an 88 game pace, which should give us a chance come mid-July to make the playoffs.

Our new Outfield, less Junior and Dunn, and if we add Gonzalez, our team ERA should be 1 run lower.

RedLegsToday
08-22-2008, 09:27 AM
our team ERA should be 1 run lower.

This would make the Reds the best pitching staff in the league. No amount of improved outfield defense is going to do that.

The Reds this year are 14th in runs allowed and 12 in runs scored in the NL. And, get this, they have the 12th best record in the league.

If Harang comes back strong next year, the Reds may be about to get to middle of the pack in NL era, but, that's a big if right now. Lowe would certainly help, but, do you really want to spend 11-12 million a year on a 35 year old starting pitcher?

redhawk61
08-22-2008, 09:50 AM
The pitcher I really want the resd to go after, who probably will be cheaper than some others is Oliver Perez. Could be a solid 3-4 lefty for us for a couple of years.

redsbuckeye
08-22-2008, 09:51 AM
Absolutely not. Not only will he command a high salary, but his good numbers have come in a very pitcher friendly park. He's also 35 and probably about ready to hit his decline phase.

schmidty622
08-22-2008, 09:55 AM
A park being "pitcher friendly" would not matter as much for Lowe as his ground ball to fly ball rates are astronomical.

A career Gb/Fb rate of 3.29 is absolutely the kind of pitcher that would fit in at Great American.

redsbuckeye
08-22-2008, 10:03 AM
A park being "pitcher friendly" would not matter as much for Lowe as his ground ball to fly ball rates are astronomical.

A career Gb/Fb rate of 3.29 is absolutely the kind of pitcher that would fit in at Great American.

That's not the way it works, it gives up less runs overall.

And don't address the salary, age and decline nature of the age and the supposed youth movement going on for that matter.

TheBigLebowski
08-22-2008, 10:08 AM
The thought of paying Derek Lowe a lot of money makes me ill.

ChatterRed
08-22-2008, 10:09 AM
From what I've heard from insiders, the freed up payroll is going directly to sign more pitching, and possibly an impact bat for the offense.

Promises, promises.

BLEEDS
08-22-2008, 10:22 AM
From what I've heard from insiders, the freed up payroll is going directly to sign more pitching, and possibly an impact bat for the offense.

Links?

Of course that's what we NEED - we needed that this past off-season too. We got Josh Fogg and Corey Patterson.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

sammonator
08-22-2008, 10:29 AM
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Owings

How about that. That looks like a good rotation to me, as long as Harang can get it back. I see no need to spend 10 million on another pitcher when your #5 starter will probably be Micah Owings. I say we get a impact bat for LF. How about Manny Ramirez? Trade for Holliday? We also need a leadoff man. How about a trade for Pierre assuming the Dodgers pay most of his remaining salary.

Pierre CF
Phillips 2b
Bruce RF
Ramirez/Holliday LF
Votto 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Castillo/Hannigan C
Gonzalez SS

Bench
Freel, Keppinger, Valentin, Dickerson

redsbuckeye
08-22-2008, 10:38 AM
No way Ramirez ever comes to the Reds. I'd be all for it, but it's just not happening. He's going to be making 25 mil per year. The Reds aren't going to spend that on one player.

Holliday is nice but I suspect is numbers are inflated by Coors Field. He'd still probably be a nice fit on the team but another team will outbid the Reds.

Nasty_Boy
08-22-2008, 11:04 AM
We still wouldn't score enough. Offense is a must especially in GABP! The Reds could make do without HRs if they brought in some high OBP guys. Hopefully the BP/Dusty philosiphy doesn't infect the team again next season.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-22-2008, 12:18 PM
you all seem to forget we have to overpay for an athlete.. especially after this year.. the extra money is the only way a FA will come to this abysmal team..

Orodle
08-22-2008, 12:26 PM
Pierre is not a good leadoff hitter...hes just fast

BLEEDS
08-22-2008, 12:29 PM
Pierre is not a good leadoff hitter...hes just fast

Well you know, according to Dusty and Dustypoo, they are one in the same...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ahhhorsepoo
08-22-2008, 12:59 PM
they are not the same.. hence me not wanting bphill atop the lineup.. if he shortened his swing a little and got on base a little more he would be.. but his speed is not the only thing that makes a leadoff hitter..

but you also dont want a guy with a high OBP but slow as balls batting leadoff either......

redsbuckeye
08-22-2008, 01:02 PM
but you also dont want a guy with a high OBP but slow as balls batting leadoff either......

I'd take that anyday over a guy with a low OBP and is fast as balls.

Actually, how fast are balls?

sammonator
08-22-2008, 01:13 PM
I think Pierre would hit around .280 and steal 50 bases. I think with BPhil hitting in the 2 hole he would change his approach a little bit. He would try to go the other way a little bit more. I think if you put him in the 2 hole his avg. goes up to around .290. Pierre is not the best leadoff hitter in the world but he is better than what we have, and he probably would not cost us very much at all. But maybe Dickerson can play his way into that role next year.

Ghosts of 1990
08-22-2008, 01:22 PM
No, are you kidding me.

redsbuckeye
08-22-2008, 01:33 PM
I think Pierre would hit around .280 and steal 50 bases. I think with BPhil hitting in the 2 hole he would change his approach a little bit. He would try to go the other way a little bit more. I think if you put him in the 2 hole his avg. goes up to around .290. Pierre is not the best leadoff hitter in the world but he is better than what we have, and he probably would not cost us very much at all. But maybe Dickerson can play his way into that role next year.

He may steal 50 bases but with a 75% career SB% he's barely breaking even on run contribution for steal attempts.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-22-2008, 02:08 PM
i agree phillips in the two hole is the best place for his skills.. if he would go back to his contact first approach that is..

Nasty_Boy
08-22-2008, 02:35 PM
i agree phillips in the two hole is the best place for his skills.. if he would go back to his contact first approach that is..


Good luck with that, 30-30 ruined the guy.

Hondo
08-23-2008, 02:21 PM
i agree phillips in the two hole is the best place for his skills.. if he would go back to his contact first approach that is..

That is a lot of 1st Inning Double plays also...

ChatterRed
08-23-2008, 04:21 PM
The more I look at it, I don't think the Reds are going to do much in the offseason this year. I think they think this team just needs to mature, grow up, and get more experience and they will be fine. Where would they put free agents?

1B Votto - doubtful they'd replace him......he's been solid
2B Phillips - needs to improve his contact, but still a quality 2B
SS Keppinger? - I like Kepp and think his batting average dropped because he's not completely healthy
3B EE - not so sure they couldn't upgrade this position; 22 HR's and only 48 rbi's isn't a good sign
LF Could upgrade, but who?
CF Dickerson - I'm crossing my fingers he can bat .260, get on base and make things happen. His defense is a major improvement already.
RF Bruce - needs to improve his decision making at the plate. Only 21 years old.

SP - Volquez - after mid season mild slump (and that's not saying much), seems to be adjusting to the adjustments other teams have made.
SP - Cueto - continues to learn and improve......making a run as our best pitcher.
SP - Arroyo - if not for 3 games (well documented in another thread) his e.r.a. would be around 4.00
SP - Harang - hopefully last night was a sign that he's back.
SP - free agent - Derrick Lowe?

Bullpen
Lots of free agents in our group. Are they going to sign any of them? Cordero is a lock. Who else?

BLEEDS
08-25-2008, 10:28 AM
The more I look at it, I don't think the Reds are going to do much in the offseason this year. I think they think this team just needs to mature, grow up, and get more experience and they will be fine. Where would they put free agents?

1B Votto - doubtful they'd replace him......he's been solid
2B Phillips - needs to improve his contact, but still a quality 2B
SS Keppinger? - I like Kepp and think his batting average dropped because he's not completely healthy
3B EE - not so sure they couldn't upgrade this position; 22 HR's and only 48 rbi's isn't a good sign
LF Could upgrade, but who?
CF Dickerson - I'm crossing my fingers he can bat .260, get on base and make things happen. His defense is a major improvement already.
RF Bruce - needs to improve his decision making at the plate. Only 21 years old.

SP - Volquez - after mid season mild slump (and that's not saying much), seems to be adjusting to the adjustments other teams have made.
SP - Cueto - continues to learn and improve......making a run as our best pitcher.
SP - Arroyo - if not for 3 games (well documented in another thread) his e.r.a. would be around 4.00
SP - Harang - hopefully last night was a sign that he's back.
SP - free agent - Derrick Lowe?

Bullpen
Lots of free agents in our group. Are they going to sign any of them? Cordero is a lock. Who else?

Good assessment.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Lowe picked up - and hoping he gives us 1-2 good years in place/in addition to a Bailey/Maloney/Thompson being traded possibly, or just waiting for one of them to mature.
I think Bray and Burton are locks for the pen, as well as a Roenicke and a couple other guys. I expect we might try to get another Affeldt/Lincoln type FA's to fill in, but no major acquisitions there IMO.

We'd better not get rid of Votto, he's about the surest thing we've got right now in that lineup, and he'll be solid if not spectacular.
Bruce has the potential to be spectacular, but Votto's way ahead of him right now in terms of development, even if he's ceiling's NOWHERE near Bruce's.
Those two should anchor this lineup for a decade (if we can afford them).
After that, the lineups a mess - yes, let's hope Dickerson can lead off, and we find a SS of the future. Kepp's bat need a place in this lineup when he's healthy, but he's a HUGE liability in the field at SS. Ideally he'd play 2b, but I don't see BP moving to SS.
EE is an enigma, wrapped in a riddle. We can keep him around to develop, but we need 5 other consistent guys to live with his "development". We've got maybe 1 right now.

3B, SS, LF, CF are the biggest concerns right now. We need answers/upgrades at pretty much every one of those positions.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

JWP
08-25-2008, 01:43 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too.

Here are the people I'd go after during the offseason:

Ben Sheets (SP)
Rocco Baldelli (CF)
Milton Bradley (LF)

Signing Sheets would stabilize the rotation at both ends. This means that Arroyo could be traded, and would also give the Reds some wiggle room in handling minor league pitchers (by this I mean, TURN BAILEY INTO A BULLPEN ARM!).

1. Sheets
2. Volquez
3. Harang
4. Cueto
5. Owings

That is an outstanding major league rotation, especially if Harang can rebound and if Cueto improves. If there's no trust in Owings, than the FO can go after Derek Lowe. I'd expect similar results.


The Reds need to improve their defense. Most of the shortstops on the free agent market really won't help much (and Rafael Furcal will probably be too expensive), so the Reds should probably use one from the farm system.

Baldelli, if he can stay healthy, can bring a great bat to the top of the lineup, and excellent defense in the outfield. He won't be getting a starting job in TB, most likely, and concerns about his health will keep him cheap.

While Bradley probably will resign with the Rangers, adding him would balance out the lineup.

Use either Hannigan or Castillo (from the Dunn trade) at catcher.

1. Rocco Baldelli (CF)
2. Brandon Phillips (2B)
3. Jay Bruce (RF)
4. Milton Bradley (LF)
5. Edwin Encarnacion (3B) (Yonder Alonso, maybe)
6. Joey Votto (1B)
7. Chris Valaika (SS) (Or Rosales, or Janish, maybe Frazer)
8. Sean Hannigan/Wilkin Castillo (C)

Seems like a pretty good lineup to me.

BLEEDS
08-25-2008, 01:57 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too.

Here are the people I'd go after during the offseason:

Ben Sheets (SP)
Rocco Baldelli (CF)
Milton Bradley (LF)

Signing Sheets would stabilize the rotation at both ends. This means that Arroyo could be traded, and would also give the Reds some wiggle room in handling minor league pitchers (by this I mean, TURN BAILEY INTO A BULLPEN ARM!).

1. Sheets
2. Volquez
3. Harang
4. Cueto
5. Owings

That is an outstanding major league rotation, especially if Harang can rebound and if Cueto improves. If there's no trust in Owings, than the FO can go after Derek Lowe. I'd expect similar results.


The Reds need to improve their defense. Most of the shortstops on the free agent market really won't help much (and Rafael Furcal will probably be too expensive), so the Reds should probably use one from the farm system.

Baldelli, if he can stay healthy, can bring a great bat to the top of the lineup, and excellent defense in the outfield. He won't be getting a starting job in TB, most likely, and concerns about his health will keep him cheap.

While Bradley probably will resign with the Rangers, adding him would balance out the lineup.

Use either Hannigan or Castillo (from the Dunn trade) at catcher.

1. Rocco Baldelli (CF)
2. Brandon Phillips (2B)
3. Jay Bruce (RF)
4. Milton Bradley (LF)
5. Edwin Encarnacion (3B) (Yonder Alonso, maybe)
6. Joey Votto (1B)
7. Chris Valaika (SS) (Or Rosales, or Janish, maybe Frazer)
8. Sean Hannigan/Wilkin Castillo (C)

Seems like a pretty good lineup to me.


So, Sheets, Bradley, Baldelli - AND possibly Lowe?!?!

I could see Bradley maybe out of that initial group of 3.

Baldelli is too much of a risk - I'd rather go with Dickerson and a Freel/Hopper (against LHP).

Sheets I see out of our price range, and an always injury risk as well.

Good ideas otherwise IMO.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

JWP
08-25-2008, 02:16 PM
So, Sheets, Bradley, Baldelli - AND possibly Lowe?!?!

I could see Bradley maybe out of that initial group of 3.

Baldelli is too much of a risk - I'd rather go with Dickerson and a Freel/Hopper (against LHP).

Sheets I see out of our price range, and an always injury risk as well.

Good ideas otherwise IMO.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Well, I don't think Sheets will get as big a deal as everyone thinks he will because teams are probably still concerned about his health. He'll probably command $12-14 million a year, maybe a little bit less. He's worth it.

With Dunn, Griffey, and others coming off the books, Jocketty is going to have a good deal of payroll flexibility. Plus, I don't think Castellini reaching deeper into his pockets to make good on his "we're gonna win!!!!" promises as soon as possible as out of the question.

Baldelli, while a risk, is one worth taking if he can stay healthy. He would come on the cheap. 1 year, $3 million, 2 years, $5 million, something like that. For the benefit that he could provide, that's a no brainer in my mind. This team needs a center fielder. Baldelli has about as much upside as any young CFer in the game if he's healthy.

Bradley has had a great season. I'd honestly bet on him staying in Texas, due to all of his success there (and their monstrous lineup), but he'd be a nice guy to have.

I honestly have no idea how much money Lowe would command.

Still, just adding Sheets, Baldelli, and maybe Lowe, this team would be miles ahead of the current one.

BLEEDS
08-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Good Points. I'm also in the "Castellini has deep pockets" camp.

Still, I think I'd rather keep an Arroyo at that kind of $$ than anyone with a health risk. There's one thing Arroyo's not, and that's a DL candidate. Sheets is also going to want a long-term deal, something Lowe may not demand.

I'd definitely take some fliers on a couple 2 year FA's like Baldelli and Lowe, to complement our team, and put some stop-gaps in CF and SP, versus a MONSTER contract - years/dollars - that a Sheets/Burnett are going to demand.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
08-25-2008, 03:02 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too.

Here are the people I'd go after during the offseason:

Ben Sheets (SP)
Rocco Baldelli (CF)
Milton Bradley (LF)

Signing Sheets would stabilize the rotation at both ends. This means that Arroyo could be traded, and would also give the Reds some wiggle room in handling minor league pitchers (by this I mean, TURN BAILEY INTO A BULLPEN ARM!).

1. Sheets
2. Volquez
3. Harang
4. Cueto
5. Owings

That is an outstanding major league rotation, especially if Harang can rebound and if Cueto improves. If there's no trust in Owings, than the FO can go after Derek Lowe. I'd expect similar results.


The Reds need to improve their defense. Most of the shortstops on the free agent market really won't help much (and Rafael Furcal will probably be too expensive), so the Reds should probably use one from the farm system.

Baldelli, if he can stay healthy, can bring a great bat to the top of the lineup, and excellent defense in the outfield. He won't be getting a starting job in TB, most likely, and concerns about his health will keep him cheap.

While Bradley probably will resign with the Rangers, adding him would balance out the lineup.

Use either Hannigan or Castillo (from the Dunn trade) at catcher.

1. Rocco Baldelli (CF)
2. Brandon Phillips (2B)
3. Jay Bruce (RF)
4. Milton Bradley (LF)
5. Edwin Encarnacion (3B) (Yonder Alonso, maybe)
6. Joey Votto (1B)
7. Chris Valaika (SS) (Or Rosales, or Janish, maybe Frazer)
8. Sean Hannigan/Wilkin Castillo (C)

Seems like a pretty good lineup to me.


Why this hasn't been attempted, I am not sure. Look at Papelbon and the BoSox and i think of the possibility of Bailey being a lights out closer. The odds of him being able to put it all together consistently for 1 inning is a lot greater right now than for 6 or 7 innings. Not to mention we just paid a hefty amount for a closer, meaning the orginization values a closer as much as a starter. Start the process already.

JWP
08-25-2008, 03:03 PM
Good Points. I'm also in the "Castellini has deep pockets" camp.

Still, I think I'd rather keep an Arroyo at that kind of $$ than anyone with a health risk. There's one thing Arroyo's not, and that's a DL candidate. Sheets is also going to want a long-term deal, something Lowe may not demand.

I'd definitely take some fliers on a couple 2 year FA's like Baldelli and Lowe, to complement our team, and put some stop-gaps in CF and SP, versus a MONSTER contract - years/dollars - that a Sheets/Burnett are going to demand.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

PEACE

-BLEEDS

It's times like this that make the Cordero signing look even worse. Having that extra cash lying around would give the Reds some incredible flexibility. I would bet that the Reds could sign Sheets or Burnett with a similar contract to the one they gave Cordero.

Blue
08-25-2008, 03:46 PM
No.

FlightRick
08-25-2008, 04:30 PM
Good Points. I'm also in the "Castellini has deep pockets" camp.

I like the idea of management being willing to spend... and I think we've got that in place.

BUT... a team (and a market) like ours, we all need to consider that very important distinction between "money" and "years" on contracts. We have deep-pocketed ownership who can afford to make a one- or two-year "mistake," but who will be both gun-shy AND hand-cuffed by any contract that leaves us financially constrained for 4 or more years.

So: could Lowe help us get better next year? Probably. But consider the years instead of the dollars, and ask yourself: "Would the contract that brings Lowe here for next year make us WORSE three years from now?"... that answer is also: Probably. It's a sliding scale based on each player's age/durability/performance, and the calculus on Lowe tells me he's at a point where the contract he commands takes him PAST the point of his effective productivity. Let a big market team shoulder that risk.

Meantime, I realize this puts the Reds in a position where they'll look like they are dumpster diving... even if a 28-year-old "sure thing" presents itself, we aren't really able to offer more than a 5-year contract, I don't think. [And when I say that, I'm talking about Matt Holliday and almost no one else who might be available this off-season. Trade for him, you get his one last "cheap" year, and then tack on an extension for big bucks through 2014.]

It ain't sexy, but reclaimation projects/incentive laden deals/short-term-contracts-for-solid-journeymen are things the Reds need to explore moreso than competing against major market teams for free agents. Let them make the big pick-ups (and risk the big mistakes), while we sneak in and make moves that won't impact our team (for better or for worse) much past the end of the next season.

Thus, the poor man's Derek Lowe becomes somebody like Mike Hampton (who, according to many published reports, looked amazing and poised for a Comeback Player of the Year Award in the preseason before it all went to hell again for him, and who is such an injury risk that we could probably sign him for 1 year, lotsa incentives, and an option year that starts at our discretion but could automatically vest if he meets certain requirements). The poor man's Milton Bradley? Maybe Baldelli, or maybe somebody like a Randy Winn.

I mean, in all cases, sure, we're still talking about 7-figure contracts, which ain't cheap.... but we're also talking about 1- and 2-year deals, instead of 4+ year contracts for at- or past-prime players. That's huge for maintaining our organizational agility and our ability to plug holes at the ML level while waiting for our minor league talent to mature either into everyday players or trading chips.

Think about it this way: Patterson and Fogg were craptacular for us this year. But it didn't really matter because we'd also have been craptacular without them, and they won't have anything to do with our craptacularity (or lack thereof) next year. Now, that isn't quite a "wash," but it's also far from crippling the organization. It's a reasonable path to repeat, just with a new GM and with our radar re-turned and adjusted a few degrees to the right. Here, our low-risk off-season acquisitions may contribute as much to the Plus Column as this off-season's did to our Minus Column, and being able to do that every year will yield very nice results for a team like ours.


Rick

ChatterRed
08-25-2008, 10:38 PM
In this his 9th season, Milton Bradley has only stayed healthy enough to play 100 or more games three times (including this season - 103 games). He played 101 in 2003 and 141 in 2004. He has been oft injured in all the rest of the seasons.

I say pass.

BLEEDS
08-26-2008, 01:21 AM
In this his 9th season, Milton Bradley has only stayed healthy enough to play 100 or more games three times (including this season - 103 games). He played 101 in 2003 and 141 in 2004. He has been oft injured in all the rest of the seasons.

I say pass.

The last couple injuries have been Freaks, and he's hitting his Prime Years, so I'd say he's a good target, esp. since he can play LF or CF.

If he was a 100% sure thing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-26-2008, 11:40 AM
Here is what I think we need to do. We need to upgrade at some (or all) positions. Lets go down the line and I will explain what I would do with each position.
C: Hannigan to start - why not - what have we got to lose. Unless we can sign a FA here, he will have to do for now.
1B: Stay with Votto - he should upgrade his play next year - so this is an upgrade from this season.
2B: Stay with Phillips - he is one of the best 2B in baseball - maintain the status quo, but don't bat him 3rd,4th, or 5th and this should benefit our lineup
SS: If Alex Gonzalez is healthy, this will be a benefit to us and we should put him there. But if he is not, we need someone here to play defense as well as some offense.
I hope Gonzalez is healthy, but maybe we can go with Rosales, Janish, and Keppinger as a platoon for the spot in the spring and play the best player out of the 3.

3B: Keep Edwin around at least one more year. Don't spend a lot of money on someone who will come in and do the same that EdE will do for us (Beltre). He will help us out as long as he is not deemed as the guy that will be our new power hitter. He is 5th or 6th man in a lineup (7th in a really good lineup).

LF: Sign a Free Agent - Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell (even though we probably can't afford him), anyone that can remotely hit for power. We need a 4 hitter (preferrably right handed) and this is the spot for him. Obviously, we traded our power away, but we need to try and get a power hitter on this team. I can't say who we should get, but I don't anyone that I think is ready yet to take this spot in the minors (not for next year, maybe the following year).

CF: Dickerson should at least have this job until someone else in the organization can prove they can do it better. Having him here will improve the line-up next year %100 (insert Corey Patterson comment here)

RF: Jay Bruce - see comment on Votto

SP - Volquez - nuff said
SP - Harang - will be better next year
SP - Cueto - will be better - and wasn't that bad this year
SP - Arroyo - If he continues to do next year what he is doing now, the Reds could have the best #4 man in any rotation outside of Anaheim.
SP - Owings, Maloney, Thompson, Bailey - Spring training battle royal - I say keep the top two and trade the bottom two for either a C, SS, or power bat in LF (if they are still that valuable)
CL - Cordero will return to form next year
RP - Affeldt (he is not a bad lefty option)
RP - Weathers - we need a veteran leader to help the young pitchers we will have on staff and he is not terrible - one more year and then drop him
RP - Roenicke (sp?) - we need to bring him up now
RP - Burton - good set up man when healthy
RP - Bray - decent lefty in short relief
RP - Bailey - what do you think about, that if he does not win a starting job, putting him in the pen to be a long reliever. That may be what he is better at. He could also spot start.
RP - Belisle - if Bailey is not used as a reliever then we would us Belisle, so they are interchangeable in my roster

Bench -
Keppinger - can play anywhere in the infield, and can hit
Hairston - can play anywhere, I like him better than Freel, and if anyone struggles, he can take their place in the lineup
Janish/Rosales - whichever one does not make the starting lineup needs to be on the bench for defensive purposes
Castillo - Switch hitting back-up catcher not named Javier Valetin
Dorn - Left handed power hitter - Could compete for starting LF job.

I don't know, just what I was thinking at the time.

BLEEDS
08-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Here is what I think we need to do. We need to upgrade at some (or all) positions. Lets go down the line and I will explain what I would do with each position.
C: Hannigan to start - why not - what have we got to lose. Unless we can sign a FA here, he will have to do for now.
1B: Stay with Votto - he should upgrade his play next year - so this is an upgrade from this season.
2B: Stay with Phillips - he is one of the best 2B in baseball - maintain the status quo, but don't bat him 3rd,4th, or 5th and this should benefit our lineup
SS: If Alex Gonzalez is healthy, this will be a benefit to us and we should put him there. But if he is not, we need someone here to play defense as well as some offense.
I hope Gonzalez is healthy, but maybe we can go with Rosales, Janish, and Keppinger as a platoon for the spot in the spring and play the best player out of the 3.

3B: Keep Edwin around at least one more year. Don't spend a lot of money on someone who will come in and do the same that EdE will do for us (Beltre). He will help us out as long as he is not deemed as the guy that will be our new power hitter. He is 5th or 6th man in a lineup (7th in a really good lineup).

LF: Sign a Free Agent - Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell (even though we probably can't afford him), anyone that can remotely hit for power. We need a 4 hitter (preferrably right handed) and this is the spot for him. Obviously, we traded our power away, but we need to try and get a power hitter on this team. I can't say who we should get, but I don't anyone that I think is ready yet to take this spot in the minors (not for next year, maybe the following year).

CF: Dickerson should at least have this job until someone else in the organization can prove they can do it better. Having him here will improve the line-up next year %100 (insert Corey Patterson comment here)

RF: Jay Bruce - see comment on Votto

SP - Volquez - nuff said
SP - Harang - will be better next year
SP - Cueto - will be better - and wasn't that bad this year
SP - Arroyo - If he continues to do next year what he is doing now, the Reds could have the best #4 man in any rotation outside of Anaheim.
SP - Owings, Maloney, Thompson, Bailey - Spring training battle royal - I say keep the top two and trade the bottom two for either a C, SS, or power bat in LF (if they are still that valuable)
CL - Cordero will return to form next year
RP - Affeldt (he is not a bad lefty option)
RP - Weathers - we need a veteran leader to help the young pitchers we will have on staff and he is not terrible - one more year and then drop him
RP - Roenicke (sp?) - we need to bring him up now
RP - Burton - good set up man when healthy
RP - Bray - decent lefty in short relief
RP - Bailey - what do you think about, that if he does not win a starting job, putting him in the pen to be a long reliever. That may be what he is better at. He could also spot start.
RP - Belisle - if Bailey is not used as a reliever then we would us Belisle, so they are interchangeable in my roster

Bench -
Keppinger - can play anywhere in the infield, and can hit
Hairston - can play anywhere, I like him better than Freel, and if anyone struggles, he can take their place in the lineup
Janish/Rosales - whichever one does not make the starting lineup needs to be on the bench for defensive purposes
Castillo - Switch hitting back-up catcher not named Javier Valetin
Dorn - Left handed power hitter - Could compete for starting LF job.

I don't know, just what I was thinking at the time.

Very Nice Post and Summary.

I agree on pretty much all of that, and have said as much in a number of posts.
Especially Votto and BP staying at their positions. Let them focus on their Offense, and not a new field position.
I'm all for Dickerson winning the CF job and we can put some Hairston/Freel's out there versus LHP.

I agree we need a LF power bat - esp. since that would help us live with D over O at SS and C.

I think if Owings doesn't make the rotation, we should consider HIM for LF, his OPS is sick. Perhaps another Ankiel project so we can REALLY be just like St. Louis.

I still think we need a FA SP, just not much to choose from that won't be out-bid by NY/Boston/LA.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-26-2008, 01:58 PM
Very Nice Post and Summary.

I agree on pretty much all of that, and have said as much in a number of posts.
Especially Votto and BP staying at their positions. Let them focus on their Offense, and not a new field position.
I'm all for Dickerson winning the CF job and we can put some Hairston/Freel's out there versus LHP.

I agree we need a LF power bat - esp. since that would help us live with D over O at SS and C.

I think if Owings doesn't make the rotation, we should consider HIM for LF, his OPS is sick. Perhaps another Ankiel project so we can REALLY be just like St. Louis.

I still think we need a FA SP, just not much to choose from that won't be out-bid by NY/Boston/LA.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I agree with you on Owings.
As far as a FA SP, I agree that if we can find one, go get one. I just don't want to get one for the sake of getting one and spending too much money (Milton). I wouldn't mind Lowe as long as it is not a long drawn out contract for too much money.

BLEEDS
08-26-2008, 04:29 PM
I agree with you on Owings.
As far as a FA SP, I agree that if we can find one, go get one. I just don't want to get one for the sake of getting one and spending too much money (Milton). I wouldn't mind Lowe as long as it is not a long drawn out contract for too much money.

100% Agree. We need to find FA SP's that are looking for 2-3 year contracts, the 3rd being a Team Option with a buyout.

Lowe MAY be tops in choices there, but I'd also go for a Randy Wolf or other vet type.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-26-2008, 04:38 PM
100% Agree. We need to find FA SP's that are looking for 2-3 year contracts, the 3rd being a Team Option with a buyout.

Lowe MAY be tops in choices there, but I'd also go for a Randy Wolf or other vet type.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I wouldn't mind Randy Wolf

akron3344
08-26-2008, 04:51 PM
How about resigning Fogg he can exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide well

BLEEDS
08-26-2008, 06:09 PM
How about resigning Fogg he can exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide well


I wish he would resign.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Slyder
08-26-2008, 10:26 PM
If were serious about adding a big bat to the offense why not go for the biggest bat and arguably the best rf the past decade? Vlad Guerrero. Move Bruce to LF, Dickerson in CF and not hurt defense at all.

Doesnt strike out that much, doesnt walk much (beyond intentional), true he is 33 but would be absolutely electric in Cincy. Forget Burrell and the rest of the "equal to Dunn" throw a few more mill at the biggest impact bat in free agency. If Bruce and Phillips want to be free swingers let Vlad work with them on how to do it effectively.

Many people didnt like Dunn I think its safe to say. Theres not much difference in Dunn and Burrell, people will get sick of the act with time and be calling for the "bag of balls trade due to salary". If Dunn taught many anything, its the Reds have to be right, Vlad is the most complete hitter and cause the least amount of jumbling of the team and give us that certified MVP caliber bat we need.

Only once since 98 has he not played in 150 games.

If were serious about an impact bat go with the biggest impact bat out there.

Considering we stick with the kids to see during 09 what they can bring top 5:
CF Dickerson
2b/ss Keppinger
2b/ss Phillips (vs LHP unless he shows adjustments), 1b Votto (vs RHP)
RF Vlad
1b Votto (Vs LHP), 2b/ss Phillips (vs RHP)

I like Phillips more than Votto from the standpoint that with Vlad behind him he's going to get stuff to hit. Could make a case either way 3 and 5.

JWP
08-26-2008, 11:05 PM
If were serious about adding a big bat to the offense why not go for the biggest bat and arguably the best rf the past decade? Vlad Guerrero. Move Bruce to LF, Dickerson in CF and not hurt defense at all.

Doesnt strike out that much, doesnt walk much (beyond intentional), true he is 33 but would be absolutely electric in Cincy. Forget Burrell and the rest of the "equal to Dunn" throw a few more mill at the biggest impact bat in free agency. If Bruce and Phillips want to be free swingers let Vlad work with them on how to do it effectively.

Many people didnt like Dunn I think its safe to say. Theres not much difference in Dunn and Burrell, people will get sick of the act with time and be calling for the "bag of balls trade due to salary". If Dunn taught many anything, its the Reds have to be right, Vlad is the most complete hitter and cause the least amount of jumbling of the team and give us that certified MVP caliber bat we need.

Only once since 98 has he not played in 150 games.

If were serious about an impact bat go with the biggest impact bat out there.

Considering we stick with the kids to see during 09 what they can bring top 5:
CF Dickerson
2b/ss Keppinger
2b/ss Phillips (vs LHP unless he shows adjustments), 1b Votto (vs RHP)
RF Vlad
1b Votto (Vs LHP), 2b/ss Phillips (vs RHP)

I like Phillips more than Votto from the standpoint that with Vlad behind him he's going to get stuff to hit. Could make a case either way 3 and 5.

What makes you think that this team could sign Vladimir Guerrero (if he were a free agent this offseason, which he's not)? Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a pipe dream. At best. This isn't fantasy baseball, the Reds can't just go out and "get" Vladimir Guerrero just like that.

Vladimir Guerrero also has some pretty bad knee problems. He's spent a lot of time at DH this season. People tend to think that because he has a cannon for an arm that he's a good defender. While he's certainly a pretty good guy in the outfield, he's getting older, slower, and his arm (as always) is wildly inaccurate.

I'd love to have his bat, but at this point, this team needs to be getting younger and faster.

Slyder
08-27-2008, 12:23 AM
What makes you think that this team could sign Vladimir Guerrero (if he were a free agent this offseason, which he's not)? Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a pipe dream. At best. This isn't fantasy baseball, the Reds can't just go out and "get" Vladimir Guerrero just like that.

Vladimir Guerrero also has some pretty bad knee problems. He's spent a lot of time at DH this season. People tend to think that because he has a cannon for an arm that he's a good defender. While he's certainly a pretty good guy in the outfield, he's getting older, slower, and his arm (as always) is wildly inaccurate.

I'd love to have his bat, but at this point, this team needs to be getting younger and faster.

He certainly couldnt do worse than Griffey this past year.

According to MLBtraderumors.com Vlad has an 09 option for 15 mil, I was mistaken on that part to a point (I thought he was outright FA). But whats the difference between Vlad and Burrell (which seems to be a popular name right now for the reds) a few months in age, Burrell isnt the complete bat that Vlad would be and would likely age about the same rate so which do you think would be better Vlad at about 15-17 mil or Burrell at 12-15. IMO Vlad brings more over 2-3 years.

JWP
08-27-2008, 01:26 AM
He certainly couldnt do worse than Griffey this past year.

According to MLBtraderumors.com Vlad has an 09 option for 15 mil, I was mistaken on that part to a point (I thought he was outright FA). But whats the difference between Vlad and Burrell (which seems to be a popular name right now for the reds) a few months in age, Burrell isnt the complete bat that Vlad would be and would likely age about the same rate so which do you think would be better Vlad at about 15-17 mil or Burrell at 12-15. IMO Vlad brings more over 2-3 years.

I wouldn't touch Burrell either. He's basically Adam Dunn with a bit of a higher batting average.

NarrowStairs
08-27-2008, 04:24 AM
If my aunt had a penis, would she be my uncle?


Baseless speculation like this is stupid. Rumor-mongers.

BLEEDS
08-27-2008, 11:39 AM
I wouldn't touch Burrell either. He's basically Adam Dunn with a bit of a higher batting average.


Well, isn't that what everyone complains about with Dunn?

Why WOULDN'T we be happy with a Right Handed version of Adam Dunn who hits for a higher average?
Heck, we might even put him in the Cleanup Spot!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-27-2008, 12:23 PM
Well, isn't that what everyone complains about with Dunn?

Why WOULDN'T we be happy with a Right Handed version of Adam Dunn who hits for a higher average?
Heck, we might even put him in the Cleanup Spot!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Right, I would love to have Burrell. I just don't think that we would be willing to pay him for what he would want.

Nasty_Boy
08-27-2008, 12:32 PM
If they sign Burrell, I'll be three kinds of pssed! Why would you sign AD Jr, pay more for him, and have a guy that is 3-4 years older. Burrell shouldn't be on the radar.

BLEEDS
08-27-2008, 02:17 PM
Right, I would love to have Burrell. I just don't think that we would be willing to pay him for what he would want.


If they sign Burrell, I'll be three kinds of pssed! Why would you sign AD Jr, pay more for him, and have a guy that is 3-4 years older. Burrell shouldn't be on the radar.


I'm not saying it's the smartest move - IMO it was to resign Dunn - but I could definitely see it happening.
He probably wouldn't demand as much money - years/dollars - as Dunn because of his age;
He's right-handed, which apparently we need since we face lefties 30% of the time and BP can only hit them and not RHP;
It's a move that WJ would make that would also appease "Average Joe Reds Fan" because of his "lofty" BA versus AD, and he's not so big that he looks like he's loafing it when he plays his below average LF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
08-27-2008, 09:30 PM
our team ERA should be 1 run lower.

This would make the Reds the best pitching staff in the league. No amount of improved outfield defense is going to do that.



You forgot that I said "with the addition of Gonzalez". The REDS probably have the worst Defensive Shortstops in all of baseball all season long. They don't even have real Shortstops playing shortstop. They have poor-range 2nd basemen, guys who would be below average defensively at 2nd Base.

Absolutely, the removal of the worst SS's in the League along with the worst Right Fielder in the League, and a Left Fielder that has a lot to be desired, replaced by Gonzalez, Bruce, and whoever plays Left Field, probably Cumberland, who can also play Centerfield, but it doesn't matter as whoever's in Left will be a huge improvement over Dunn.

Yes. The ERA will be a full run better next season IF, and I mean IF, Gonzalez can come back.

Kingspoint
08-27-2008, 09:31 PM
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Owings

How about that. That looks like a good rotation to me, as long as Harang can get it back. I see no need to spend 10 million on another pitcher when your #5 starter will probably be Micah Owings. I say we get a impact bat for LF. How about Manny Ramirez? Trade for Holliday? We also need a leadoff man. How about a trade for Pierre assuming the Dodgers pay most of his remaining salary.

Pierre CF
Phillips 2b
Bruce RF
Ramirez/Holliday LF
Votto 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Castillo/Hannigan C
Gonzalez SS

Bench
Freel, Keppinger, Valentin, Dickerson


Substitute Lowe for Arroyo and it looks good.

BLEEDS
08-28-2008, 10:02 AM
Substitute Lowe for Arroyo and it looks good.

Add Lowe IN ADDITION to Arroyo, and WOW!!

I don't understand the dumping on Arroyo. He's looking pretty good now, and is a solid #3/#4 guy IMO. Sure he's not a #2 as he's been slotted here previously, but I like the fact that he eats innings, is flexible enough to go on short rest, and is Relatively cheap in comparison.

We need more Arroyo's - we need LESS Foggs, and at this point Belisle/Bailey's.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
08-28-2008, 10:33 AM
I agree with Bleeds, keep Arroyo. If we added Lowe and kept Arroyo, our staff would be one of the best staffs on paper.

Nasty_Boy
08-28-2008, 10:44 AM
I think that Burrell will ask for more. He's a Boras guy (unless he changed recently) and I'm sure that they will push for big money.

As for the outfield defense, just because someone is faster doesn't mean they are a good outfielder. Bruce seems to have the tools but he takes bad routes and he does get the dropsies every now and then. CF is still up in the air, and LF needs to be an offensive position and the Reds don't have anybody in the system that is ready to take on that roll. You obviously need good/great pitching and defense to be a contender, but you can't have a bottom of the barrell offense. Without major additions this team will be pathetic, and you'll see the Reds lose a lot of 3-2 games. You must have offense in GABP.

ChatterRed
08-28-2008, 11:09 AM
Here is what I think we need to do. We need to upgrade at some (or all) positions. Lets go down the line and I will explain what I would do with each position.
C: Hannigan to start - why not - what have we got to lose. Unless we can sign a FA here, he will have to do for now.

I agree. The free agent market for catchers stinks. Stick with Hannigan.



1B: Stay with Votto - he should upgrade his play next year - so this is an upgrade from this season.

I agree. The league has had plenty of time to scout Votto, and Votto is still doing well. He will only get better. Right now, I feel better about Votto than Bruce, although Jay is only 21.



2B: Stay with Phillips - he is one of the best 2B in baseball - maintain the status quo, but don't bat him 3rd,4th, or 5th and this should benefit our lineup

I agree about Phillips, especially batting him farther down in the order.



SS: If Alex Gonzalez is healthy, this will be a benefit to us and we should put him there. But if he is not, we need someone here to play defense as well as some offense.
I hope Gonzalez is healthy, but maybe we can go with Rosales, Janish, and Keppinger as a platoon for the spot in the spring and play the best player out of the 3.

I would actually consider signing Rafael Furcal in the offseason. But just my opinion. Good OBP, steals bases, hits for decent average. Could be a candidate for leadoff hitter.


3B: Keep Edwin around at least one more year. Don't spend a lot of money on someone who will come in and do the same that EdE will do for us (Beltre). He will help us out as long as he is not deemed as the guy that will be our new power hitter. He is 5th or 6th man in a lineup (7th in a really good lineup).

Completely agree about EE. Keep him around. He's cheap. But I also see an organization that has several third basement moving up the ranks and possibly ready to replace him in the next couple of years.


LF: Sign a Free Agent - Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell (even though we probably can't afford him), anyone that can remotely hit for power. We need a 4 hitter (preferrably right handed) and this is the spot for him. Obviously, we traded our power away, but we need to try and get a power hitter on this team. I can't say who we should get, but I don't anyone that I think is ready yet to take this spot in the minors (not for next year, maybe the following year).

Say no to Milton Bradley. He has only played 100 games in 3 of his 9 seasons. He is injury riddled and many on this board aren't taking that into consideration. I would consider Burrell, but only for the right price and right amount of years.


CF: Dickerson should at least have this job until someone else in the organization can prove they can do it better. Having him here will improve the line-up next year %100 (insert Corey Patterson comment here)

Agree. Give Dickerson a chance until he proves otherwise. But don't hang with him if he's hitting .197 for an entire season. ;)


RF: Jay Bruce - see comment on Votto

I hope Jay watches alot of film of himself in the offseason and makes necessary adjustments. I feel he has regressed as the season has gone on. I believe he deserves to be here, but I'm disappointed in his lack of adjustments. I hope to see improvement from the 21 year old next year.


SP - Volquez - nuff said
SP - Harang - will be better next year
SP - Cueto - will be better - and wasn't that bad this year

I thought Cueto got better and better as the season went on. Just what you want to see from a 22 year old. Improvement. I also thought Volquez had a lapse mid-season, but has regained his form. Nice to see.



SP - Arroyo - If he continues to do next year what he is doing now, the Reds could have the best #4 man in any rotation outside of Anaheim.

Agreed. See this thread where I show that Arroyo's e.r.a. minus 3 bad outings, would be closer to 4.00, had Dusty not left him in to get pummeled.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71274



SP - Owings, Maloney, Thompson, Bailey - Spring training battle royal - I say keep the top two and trade the bottom two for either a C, SS, or power bat in LF (if they are still that valuable)

Here's a crazy idea (that I actually heard some teams talk about). Why not go to a 6 man rotation - Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Lowe, Owings - and save the arms a little more? Just a thought.



CL - Cordero will return to form next year
RP - Affeldt (he is not a bad lefty option)
RP - Weathers - we need a veteran leader to help the young pitchers we will have on staff and he is not terrible - one more year and then drop him
RP - Roenicke (sp?) - we need to bring him up now
RP - Burton - good set up man when healthy
RP - Bray - decent lefty in short relief
RP - Bailey - what do you think about, that if he does not win a starting job, putting him in the pen to be a long reliever. That may be what he is better at. He could also spot start.
RP - Belisle - if Bailey is not used as a reliever then we would us Belisle, so they are interchangeable in my roster

I like our bullpen. I wouldn't change much other than getting rid of Majewski and Coffey. I just hope Burton gets healthy.


Bench -
Keppinger - can play anywhere in the infield, and can hit
Hairston - can play anywhere, I like him better than Freel, and if anyone struggles, he can take their place in the lineup
Janish/Rosales - whichever one does not make the starting lineup needs to be on the bench for defensive purposes
Castillo - Switch hitting back-up catcher not named Javier Valetin
Dorn - Left handed power hitter - Could compete for starting LF job.

I don't know, just what I was thinking at the time.

No problem with your proposed bench. :thumbup:

tommycash
08-28-2008, 11:51 AM
I just think we need a power bat, and LF seems like the only option. Bradley and Burrell are on that list, I am not sold on Bradley but if he plays next year like he did this year, he is worth a 2 year deal somewhere. I just don't think we need to panic and look to buy in a crappy market next year. I think we will be better if we just do logical things to improve our team for next year. Thanks for your comments. I am however, not sold on the idea of a 6 man rotation. I like having a long reliever than can spot start whenever you need a starter to rest. Like my idea of having Bailey or Belisle (or if we signed Lowe, Owings could fill this role and pinch hit) as a reliever that could start whenver we would need to rest Volquez, Cueto, or anyone else. I guess it just in how you label that 12th pitcher on your roster. Is he a 6th starter, or is he a long reliever/spot starter?

ChatterRed
08-28-2008, 04:19 PM
I just think we need a power bat, and LF seems like the only option. Bradley and Burrell are on that list, I am not sold on Bradley but if he plays next year like he did this year, he is worth a 2 year deal somewhere. I just don't think we need to panic and look to buy in a crappy market next year. I think we will be better if we just do logical things to improve our team for next year. Thanks for your comments. I am however, not sold on the idea of a 6 man rotation. I like having a long reliever than can spot start whenever you need a starter to rest. Like my idea of having Bailey or Belisle (or if we signed Lowe, Owings could fill this role and pinch hit) as a reliever that could start whenver we would need to rest Volquez, Cueto, or anyone else. I guess it just in how you label that 12th pitcher on your roster. Is he a 6th starter, or is he a long reliever/spot starter?

Owings fits that role. I guess it depends on if we sign Lowe.

BLEEDS
08-28-2008, 05:06 PM
We don't need a 6 man rotation - but we will need 6 Starting Pitchers throughout the year inevitably.

Please get me a Lowe/Wolf veteran guy and live with Bailey/Belisle out of the Pen, and Owings can come out of the pen/long-relief until he works out his issues and can start again.

Somehow, I could possibly see us going with the same 1-4 this year - perhaps in different order(s) - Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto; and having Owings/Bailey/2-bit FA pitcher vying for the 5 spot and rotating them in and out, basically what we did this year. Not a GREAT way to go, but (perhaps?) bound to be just a BIT better than this year.

I can live with that IFF we spend the $20-$30M on offense for LF, and Defense first/Offense 2nd at C/SS and solid Bullpen & Bench depth.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Nasty_Boy
08-28-2008, 05:48 PM
The offense looked solid again today against the always tough Brandon Backe. :rolleyes:

superred
08-28-2008, 06:08 PM
The offense looked solid again today against the always tough Brandon Backe. :rolleyes:

ru trying 2 say he isnt a cy young canditate;)

Nasty_Boy
08-28-2008, 06:11 PM
You're telling me he's not?

superred
08-28-2008, 06:19 PM
no of course not, hes amazing

Kingspoint
08-28-2008, 06:44 PM
Here's a crazy idea (that I actually heard some teams talk about). Why not go to a 6 man rotation - Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Lowe, Owings - and save the arms a little more? Just a thought.





Seems like every one of those pitchers would benefit from that.

ChatterRed
08-29-2008, 10:27 AM
I just don't understand what Homer Bailey has done this year in the majors and at Louisville, to warrant people on this board counting on him as a 5th starter next year. A real headscratcher.

tommycash
08-29-2008, 12:32 PM
I just don't understand what Homer Bailey has done this year in the majors and at Louisville, to warrant people on this board counting on him as a 5th starter next year. A real headscratcher.

Who's said that they were counting on Bailey to be a starter. I said throw him in a competition this spring with Owings, Thompson, Maloney, Belisle, any FA pitcher, anyone else for a chance at the 5 spot. My personal recommendation is to make him transition into a long reliever/spot starter role. I don't count on us getting much out of Bailey unless he proves his worth this next spring, so I agree with you on that point.

Kingspoint
05-15-2009, 06:43 PM
....I think that would give us a chance at an 88 game pace, which should give us a chance come mid-July to make the playoffs.

Our new Outfield, less Junior and Dunn, and if we add Gonzalez, our team ERA should be 1 run lower.

I absolutely had to repost the first post of this thread. I can't believe how many people tried to come up with a million reasons why the team ERA couldn't be lowered by a one run.

I repeat, that defense is absolutely immeasurable by any statistics available to anybody. The confidence that a pitching staff has when the entire defense is improved behind them is, again, not measureable. We are currently something like 3rd to last in the NL in committing the most errors, but that doesn't matter as we are getting to more balls, throwing out more runners, and playing with a confidence that makes our pitchers give up fewer walks at the wrong times.

We didn't even add Lowe, but as you can see at the time I posted this last August 22nd, that it would have been a fantastic off-season move. Lowe's a stud and our ERA would be even lower than it is now if we had him.

Someone posted a thread recently titled, "Do you believe, yet". I think I can say, that I believed back on August 22nd of last season.

Baseball is a simple game. Great Defense and Great Pitching gives a team a chance all the time to win, and the team doesn't get into big losing slumps under those conditions.

Dude Rock
05-16-2009, 04:40 AM
I knew this team would do well. I wasn't sure they'd win our division, but I knew they'd be 1st or 2nd, mainly because of the pitching.

There were alot of question marks, namely the offense, which is much better than I anticipated.

Hondo
05-16-2009, 01:32 PM
Well, Walt never failed in St.Louis to make a move so lets hope he makes a move that is significant...

Va Red Fan
05-16-2009, 02:26 PM
Who needs Lowe? I love our 5 man rotation.

Kingspoint
05-18-2009, 03:36 PM
I should add that nowhere in this thread does it say later that a whole run per game lower in ERA was more realistic, there was another thread at the same time where I agreed (after reading the comments here), that 2/3rd's of a run per game lower was more realistic, not a whole run. Currently, it's .60 lower than last year, so that's pretty darn close. By the end of the year, I think we'll be close to that .67 lower ERA than last year.

Dude Rock
05-18-2009, 04:01 PM
Who needs Lowe? I love our 5 man rotation.

.......but if you could get Peavy for a reasonable price, would you do it? Obviously, we'd have to include starting pitching - either major or minor league. And if you don't trade a major leaguer, what would you do with the rotation? Maybe Owings goes to the bullpen?

I just hate to see the Cards or Brewers pick up Peavy at some point. We could pick up Peavy, and then maybe unload Bronson when all the other starters trade bait disappear?

Kingspoint
05-18-2009, 06:02 PM
.......but if you could get Peavy for a reasonable price, would you do it? Obviously, we'd have to include starting pitching - either major or minor league. And if you don't trade a major leaguer, what would you do with the rotation? Maybe Owings goes to the bullpen?

I just hate to see the Cards or Brewers pick up Peavy at some point. We could pick up Peavy, and then maybe unload Bronson when all the other starters trade bait disappear?

Last week I proposed a Harang and Alonso for Haren trade. But, until I know what's going on with Votto, that's a no-go for now. I proposed that because Arizona has the worst 1st Baseman in baseball. (San Diego has one of the best.)

What would I do for Peavy? You have to give talent and it has to be cheap in order to get him. Soto and Bailey would work, But, then you'd have to trade Arroyo for something in order to get rid of the payroll and be able to afford Peavy's new contract.

We're in a good position. The REDS don't have to do anything, and they'll continue to improve.

Hondo
05-22-2009, 12:44 AM
Peavy is available... Walt Traded for Big Stars in St. Louis... I hope he grabs Peavy here... It would set this team apart...

Also a Hitter... then, Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner...

TC81190
05-22-2009, 01:26 AM
I said it another thread, but trade for Peavy then trade Arroyo to the Yanks for Swisher and we'd be instant contenders.

Dude Rock
05-22-2009, 04:39 AM
I said it another thread, but trade for Peavy then trade Arroyo to the Yanks for Swisher and we'd be instant contenders.

If it could happen, I agree.

Hondo
05-22-2009, 01:51 PM
Lets put it this way... Walt has to make this Peavy trade happen...

Timmy! Tim Kajurgjurga from ESPN said the Price is dropping on ESPN Last Night...

Why this trade has to happen?

To keep, #1 St.Louis, #1A Chicago, #2 Houston from aquiring Peavy because if they do... We Might as well move to the Beer League...

CySeymour
05-22-2009, 02:01 PM
I could also be that Walt has kicked the tires on Peavy. Remember, Peavy has full no-trade rights. Do you think he would approve a deal to Cincy?

Dude Rock
05-22-2009, 02:24 PM
Lets put it this way... Walt has to make this Peavy trade happen...

Timmy! Tim Kajurgjurga from ESPN said the Price is dropping on ESPN Last Night...

Why this trade has to happen?

To keep, #1 St.Louis, #1A Chicago, #2 Houston from aquiring Peavy because if they do... We Might as well move to the Beer League...

That's my concern. Peavy in our division will pretty much write us off for awhile.