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JaxRed
08-23-2008, 01:26 PM
The start of the "Affiliation Shuffle" is less than a month away. The fate of the Reds AA and High A affiliations is in doubt. Here's the current status:

The best site to track this is http://www.ballparkdigest.com/affiliates_2008.html along with Baseball America.

Louisville, Dayton and Billings are signed thru 2010

There is NO scenario that would have Lexington be a Reds affiliate.

AA
The Lookouts didn't want to extend in 2006 but Castellini paid a visit to Lookouts owner Frank Burke and convinced him to give Reds 2 more years. Burke had been concerned about organizational chaos within the Reds and not getting an exhibition game.

Well, the organization chaos (GM's Managers, scouts) has continued and Lookouts got no exhibitions. So it was surprising in June when Burke said they would probably extend with Reds.

David Paschall a reporter with Chattanooga Times-Free Press thought the agreement would be signed when Terry Reynolds visited in early Aug. But Reynolds has come and gone, and no agreement.

Just to give you an idea of how unusual it is for Lookouts to wait this long, in 2002 they renewed in March (4 years), in 2006 it was May. So they've gone from signing early for 4 years, to later for 2 years, to waiting till last minute.

High A
The Reds own the Sarasota team and with the departure of the Reds to Arizona it seems 99% likely the Reds will leave. For a long time it seemed like the Red Sox would move Spring Training to Sarasota, and grab the Reds High A franchise. But Sarasota looks like they are going to screw this one up too. At any rate it isn't going to happen within the next month.

The Red Sox High A team is in Lancaster (Cal League) but they wanted to go east so badly they bought a team in the Carolina League. (Salem). So at this point it would seem the Bosox will take over Salem and not go to Sarasota. But, Boston isn't going to Arizona for Spring Training no matter what, so I guess it's still a possibility for them to take over Sarasota team and either play in Sarasota or Ft Myers depending on how the Spring Training thing goes.

Obviously, if Boston wants to reacquire the Sarasota franchise, the Reds going to Salem makes a lot of sense.

Complicating matters a bit is talk of moving 2 Cal teams to the Carolina league. I don't know if that can be decided in the next month.

JaxRed
08-23-2008, 01:35 PM
So what franchises are available?

AA
Arkansas (currently Angels)
Carolina (Marlins)
Connecticut (Giants)
Huntsville (Brewers)
Jacksonville (Dodgers)
San Antonio (Padres)
Trenton (Yankees)
West Tenn (Mariners)

High A
Ft Myers (Twins) (only club in FSL not owned by MLB team)
High Desert (Mariners)
Inland Empire (Dodgers)
Lake Elsinore (Padres)
Lancaster (Red Sox)
Lynchburg (Pirates)
Salem (Astros) owned by Red Sox
San Jose (Giants)
Visalia (DBacks)
Winston-Salem (White Sox)

These are only ones with affilations ending in 2008. The Astros could be players in the Sarasota deal also. Let's assume Bosox kick them out of Salem. They'd need a High A franchise and they could take over Sarasota and move it to Kissimee (where they do Spring Training). They could also join GCL in Kissimee and give Greenville to Reds.

That would solve the upcoming problem with both the GCL and Az Rookie League both having an odd number of teams.

The other thing that might happen is Reds extend in Sarasota 2 years just to let things shake out.

Joseph
08-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Good information to have here. Thanks Jax.

BMGreene20
08-23-2008, 01:52 PM
Jax Reds.....the Daytona Cubs in the FSL are owned by Big Game Capital, LLC...i perhaps got the heads up since i happen to work down here in Daytona

redsmetz
08-23-2008, 02:45 PM
Is it out of the realm of possibility that somewhere down the line the club might add an additional Single A club? I know some of the teams carry three Single A teams (although I'm not sure if they carry two low A or two high A clubs - I'd guess low A). If we're going to see an influx of talent from all over, it could make sense to have an additional A club.

Kc61
08-23-2008, 03:29 PM
A number of teams have a short season A ball affiliate. The Reds don't.

Blitz Dorsey
08-23-2008, 03:31 PM
I couldn't care less where the high-A team ends up for some reason. But I will be saddened if the Reds lose Chattanooga as an affiliate. Hopefully they will be able to work out a last-minute deal there.

Grande Donkey
08-23-2008, 03:35 PM
I would be pretty damn happy if they got out of Sarasota. The sooner the Reds are no longer linked to horse**** town (To quote Aubrey Huff) the better.

I would like to renew with Chatt since it is close to my home but I don't think it is going to happen.

JaxRed
08-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Jax Reds.....the Daytona Cubs in the FSL are owned by Big Game Capital, LLC...i perhaps got the heads up since i happen to work down here in Daytona


Some one gave me some bad info !! Thanks

"Is it out of the realm of possibility that somewhere down the line the club might add an additional Single A club? I know some of the teams carry three Single A teams (although I'm not sure if they carry two low A or two high A clubs - I'd guess low A). If we're going to see an influx of talent from all over, it could make sense to have an additional A club."

It's out of the realm for them to pick up a full season A team (High or Low) because there are only enough for each club to have one of each. And each MLB team is required to have one of each. But as KC61 said, they could add a short-season team (and they should !)

JaxRed
08-23-2008, 04:33 PM
BTW, I have a medium self-interest in seeing Reds stay in Sarasota for another 2 years, and a MAJOR, MAJOR self-interest in seeing them replace Dodgers in Jacksonville.

redsmetz
08-23-2008, 06:56 PM
It's out of the realm for them to pick up a full season A team (High or Low) because there are only enough for each club to have one of each. And each MLB team is required to have one of each. But as KC61 said, they could add a short-season team (and they should !)


I think so too. We're starting to get a plethora of young talent and, presumably a short season A team would be one more place for players to advance above rookie league and face better competition.

Which are the short season A leagues? New York Penn? Appalachian?

Grande Donkey
08-23-2008, 07:45 PM
Email I got today with a little insight on the situation.


I met Walt Jocketty and Bill Bavasi today....We are opening up a series in Knoxville and they are here on the way back to Cincy from Chattanooga.

They both seem like pretty nice guys, Jocketty understands that they have a lot of work to do this offseason.

They were in Chatt. talking to ownership about renewing the Player Developement Contract which as of right now does not look like it will happen. My guess is the Looks become a Dodger affiliate and the Reds move to Carolina....Just a hunch.

JaxRed
08-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Very interesting.... (of course, I'd kill to know your source Donkey). And the Carolina team now would be the Marlins. I can see where it would be beneficial for both the Marlins and the Jacksonville franchise to hook up.

For Jax - we now have a "real home team" from Florida ....and for the Marlins, a AA franchise 3 hours drive from your minor league base of operations.

Grande Donkey
08-23-2008, 10:04 PM
Very interesting.... (of course, I'd kill to know your source Donkey). And the Carolina team now would be the Marlins. I can see where it would be beneficial for both the Marlins and the Jacksonville franchise to hook up.

For Jax - we now have a "real home team" from Florida ....and for the Marlins, a AA franchise 3 hours drive from your minor league base of operations.Source is an announcer for the Lookouts. He is usually spot on with the info he gives me but did say that this was not really any inside info and just his best guess as of right now.

JaxRed
08-23-2008, 10:12 PM
It does make sense though.....

and Carolina has cool logo too.....

gedred69
08-24-2008, 12:36 AM
Wow! So much info. I can't see the Reds putting any more affiliation west of Billings. I would expect any moves to be east of the Mississippi. Sarasota has treated the Reds like an un-wanted, red-headed step-child, so leaving there lock, stock and barrel, is moot,---- including GCL Reds. Let Sarasota woo the Bosox, I'll take Ft. Myers. It's a much more happening place!!

JaxRed
08-24-2008, 01:20 AM
Well, unless the Reds sell the Sarasota franchise to Bosox or Astros, they can't be forced into Cal League. (if teams can't come to agreement MLB assigns them). Worse case scenario (if Reds don't want Cal League) is stuck with Sarasota franchise for 2 years).

The interesting thing about that is we know the Reds like the synergy of having the baseball operations, GCL, and High A franchise all in one place. But that ends on Fall of 09.

So they might retain the affiliation for 2 years, spend 1 year in Sarasota and then 2010 somewhere else. Sarasota has bad stadium and worst attendence in league. All the places with good attendance are in the big cities. (Ft Myers, Tampa, Clearwater, Daytona). And in the Southern League, Jacksonville leads in attendance.

In 2010, 2 big Florida cities would be without teams but have stadiums. Orlando (Disney World) and St Petersburg.

JaxRed
08-24-2008, 01:37 AM
Chattanooga Times-Free Press article in Sundays edition about extension

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2008/aug/24/chattanooga-lookouts-reds-link-extension-or-extinc/

corkedbat
08-24-2008, 01:33 PM
The start of the "Affiliation Shuffle" is less than a month away. The fate of the Reds AA and High A affiliations is in doubt. Here's the current status:

The best site to track this is http://www.ballparkdigest.com/affiliates_2008.html along with Baseball America.



There is NO scenario that would have Lexington be a Reds affiliate.



Yeah, and the Legends just announced a 4yr. extension with the Rastros. With Dayton as a no-brainer as far as the Reds full-sason A team, I don't even see a way the Reds put a team in the Carolina League where they're come to Lexington a couple of times a season, leaving my little pipedream thoroughly dashed. :(

OK, I'm over it. :D

corkedbat
08-24-2008, 01:36 PM
So what franchises are available?

AA
Arkansas (currently Angels)
Carolina (Marlins)
Connecticut (Giants)
Huntsville (Brewers)
Jacksonville (Dodgers)
San Antonio (Padres)
Trenton (Yankees)
West Tenn (Mariners)

High A
Ft Myers (Twins) (only club in FSL not owned by MLB team)
High Desert (Mariners)
Inland Empire (Dodgers)
Lake Elsinore (Padres)
Lancaster (Red Sox)
Lynchburg (Pirates)
Salem (Astros) owned by Red Sox
San Jose (Giants)
Visalia (DBacks)
Winston-Salem (White Sox)

These are only ones with affilations ending in 2008. The Astros could be players in the Sarasota deal also. Let's assume Bosox kick them out of Salem. They'd need a High A franchise and they could take over Sarasota and move it to Kissimee (where they do Spring Training). They could also join GCL in Kissimee and give Greenville to Reds.

That would solve the upcoming problem with both the GCL and Az Rookie League both having an odd number of teams.

The other thing that might happen is Reds extend in Sarasota 2 years just to let things shake out.

Lynchburg-to-Lexington! Keep hope alive! :party::party::party::party::party:

:jump:

carmack42
08-24-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm hoping the Reds' AA team stays in the Southern League. I'm in Huntsville and only get up to Cincy once a season. I'm fortunate to get to watch their minor league team here for a few homestands. I'd like them to stay in Chatt because of their history, but if they got to move, let's keep it close, please.

gedred69
08-24-2008, 09:48 PM
I spend the majority of my ST visit in Ft. Myers when the Reds are there,(Bosox, Twins) and a free place to stay, close enough to Sarasota, so anything that could happen to see the Reds base there would be heavenly for me. I'd make it down there to see Minor League teams during their seasons, in lieu of going to the desert for future ST. Can't afford that trip....................

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-25-2008, 01:48 PM
Any chance that Dayton eventually becomes something higher than Single-A?

JaxRed
08-25-2008, 01:57 PM
Very, Very slim.... You have to fit the region you want to join. With the exception of AAA, Dayton doesn't really fit in any other league's geographical region.

Triples
08-25-2008, 04:11 PM
A number of teams have a short season A ball affiliate. The Reds don't.

What do you call Billings?

Grande Donkey
08-25-2008, 04:20 PM
What do you call Billings?Rookie league.

gedred69
08-25-2008, 11:22 PM
Rookie league.

HaHa! Correct sir! Let me take this time to say, I wish I could afford to catch some of the Mustangs games. A lot of the future has come through there the last few years. (Looks like there might be some more playing there this year as well).

gedred69
08-25-2008, 11:31 PM
Very, Very slim.... You have to fit the region you want to join. With the exception of AAA, Dayton doesn't really fit in any other league's geographical region.

The only other possibility, would be the Eastern League (AA). I see that as a real stretch though, as Akron is way West of the rest of that league. I've always been told that to see a teams future, look at their AA team. "If a player is good enough to be successful at AA, he's got the ability to make the Bigs". It's all a matter of what he's got in his head after that. It would be really cool to have AA guys playing 50 miles away. I'd be there for sure. Dream on I guess.....

JaxRed
08-26-2008, 08:01 AM
The only other possibility, would be the Eastern League (AA). I see that as a real stretch though, as Akron is way West of the rest of that league. .....


Yep, and that's why Dayton doesn't fit in Eastern League.... I think the people in Dayton are extremely lucky in that they get a quick look at Red's new players.

I see the AA guys, and I won't get to see them for 2-3 years after they've been drafted. Dayton usually sees them after 1 year.

JaxRed
09-02-2008, 01:01 AM
More info Arkansas (AA) extended. Everyone expects Yankees to extend with Trenton. This article http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/aug/31/affiliation-shake-up-is-possible-in-southern/

expects Dodgers to go to San Antonio, "Seattle, San Diego and Cincinnati could wind up scrambling for Carolina and West Tenn with the odd man out landing in Huntsville."

BigRed07
09-03-2008, 02:29 PM
I really think that the Reds will not be in Chattanooga next year. I heard that the Diamondback's may be there next season.
The Reds really blew it if this is true. Chattanooga has been great to them and AT&T field is one of the nicest fields in the Southern league. :thumbdown

JaxRed
09-03-2008, 02:37 PM
Diamondbacks are locked into Mobile until 2010.

redsmetz
09-03-2008, 03:26 PM
I really think that the Reds will not be in Chattanooga next year. I heard that the Diamondback's may be there next season.
The Reds really blew it if this is true. Chattanooga has been great to them and AT&T field is one of the nicest fields in the Southern league. :thumbdown

I'm not sure I'd say the Reds blew it, except that we've had weak talent over a good part of our time in Chattanooga. But from here on out, if we're going to have the talent it appears we will, the beef the owner has may not apply. But then again, if we have players in Chattanooga who are ready to move up, we need to do that, the minor league owner's feelings notwithstanding.

carmack42
09-03-2008, 05:37 PM
I spend the majority of my ST visit in Ft. Myers when the Reds are there,(Bosox, Twins) and a free place to stay, close enough to Sarasota, so anything that could happen to see the Reds base there would be heavenly for me. I'd make it down there to see Minor League teams during their seasons, in lieu of going to the desert for future ST. Can't afford that trip....................


I know this is slightly off topic, but does anyone know who (if anyone) will take over Ed Smith when the Reds shuffle over to Arizona?

JaxRed
09-03-2008, 05:48 PM
I know this is slightly off topic, but does anyone know who (if anyone) will take over Ed Smith when the Reds shuffle over to Arizona?

Not yet. Maybe Boston or Baltimore, maybe no one. Whoever goes there gets a new stadium or a refurbished.

walk-off
09-04-2008, 12:26 AM
How about putting AA in Columbus at the new Hunington Field since the Clippers Washingto Nationals affilites are leaving. That way we don't get stuck with more Indians fans in central Ohio since the Buffalo Bisons are the front runners to move here!!!

redsfan1966
09-04-2008, 01:30 AM
walk-off, aint no way that'll happen....Indians in C-Bus in 09 is pretty much a done deal...too much has gone into Huntington Park to drop down to AA

KittyDuran
09-04-2008, 09:45 AM
I'll post this in the two threads...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/09/04/ddn090408spdragonsnotes.html


Midwest League to expand to 16 teams for 2010
By Marc Katz

Staff Writer

Thursday, September 04, 2008
DAYTON The Midwest League announced two teams will be moving in from the South Atlantic League in 2010 Lake County (a Cleveland suburb) and Bowling Green, Ky. That would give the Midwest League 16 teams and reduce the Sally League to 14.

Midwest League President George Spelius said discussions have not been held to determine the new alignment, but there are eight teams currently in the West Division and only six in the East Division, where the Dragons reside. Since Bowling Green and Lake County are east of all the other teams ...

Lake County wanted to make the move, but the other most logical team to leave the Sally League Lexington, Ky. wants to stay where it is. So Bowling Green was substituted.

Lexington is about 135 miles from Dayton, the closest Midwest League team, while Bowling Green is 263 miles away. Bowling Green's average traveling distance in its new league will be 474 miles, while Lake County's average distance will be 410.

Bowling Green which will play in the Sally League next year for just one season after moving from Columbus, Ga. is an affiliate of Tampa Bay. Lake County is an Indians affiliate.

JaxRed
09-04-2008, 11:57 AM
Lexington turned down a chance to be in Midwest? I know someone who won't like that !!!

JaxRed
09-06-2008, 01:53 AM
Well West Tenn just reupped with Mariners, and San Antonio with Padres so only open slots left for Reds AA team are Carolina, Jacksonville, Huntsville, and Connecticut.

It appears that the Connecticut move to Richmond (if it happens) is on hold till 2010 like all the other league changes.

The Chattanooga Times FreePress reported that Lookouts owner was expected to send in his letter dropping the Reds (which I fully expect) but I don't know if he was guessing or had been told but couldn't say that.

Mario-Rijo
09-06-2008, 02:08 AM
Well West Tenn just reupped with Mariners, and San Antonio with Padres so only open slots left for Reds AA team are Carolina, Jacksonville, Huntsville, and Connecticut.

It appears that the Connecticut move to Richmond (if it happens) is on hold till 2010 like all the other league changes.

The Chattanooga Times FreePress reported that Lookouts owner was expected to send in his letter dropping the Reds (which I fully expect) but I don't know if he was guessing or had been told but couldn't say that.

Well that's disheartening, I was hoping Chatt. and the F.O. would hammer something out. I love that Lookouts logo but more importantly that they have been together for so long to split like this stinks.

Redman15
09-06-2008, 10:59 AM
Carolina or Jacksonville would mean more longer bus rides for the players.
What is Huntsville's field like compared to AT&T?

redsof72
09-06-2008, 01:02 PM
Of the Double-A spots that are still not tied in, Chattanooga is by far the best for the Reds and they still could wind up back in Chattanooga when the music stops. The letter that the Lookouts sent in simply allows them the opportunity to talk with other clubs. It does not end their relationship with the Reds.

Of the open cities, Carolina and Jacksonville are very tough on the players from a travel perspective. Many 8-9 hour bus rides from those cities without an offday. The Jacksonville park is the best among the group and one of the nicest in all of Double-A baseball. Huntsville is located more centrally but the park is probably the worst in the league. Another problem you have in Carolina is that the park is in Zebulon, about 30 minutes from Raleigh where the players live and it is nearly an hour from the airport, and parent clubs don't like either of those situations. Chattanooga is centrally located in the Southern League. You can see why the Reds want to stay in Chattanooga.

On the other hand, it is easy to see why Burke would want to shop around. The Reds have not won there and the teams have had no continuity whatsoever, either with players or with front office personnel. Those are things that are important to an affiliate among other things. You don't want to have 50 players a season with guys constantly shuttling in and out for no apparent reason, as they have had there over the last 10 years.

JaxRed
09-07-2008, 11:23 AM
I really think Jacksonville/Marlins combination is the key to most of the remaining Southern League affiliates. There's no mystery about the Lookouts situation, Reds would like to stay and Lookouts want someone else.

But in Jax, is it the Dodgers that want out or the team? Many thought the Dodgers would want to go to Texas League but there are none left. And the Dodgers made some lip service in the local paper here about wanting to stay.

So if it's the team looking to make a change, why? The Dodgers consistently put good teams in Jax, the only reason that losing the Dodgers makes sense is if Marlins come here from Carolina. That would be perfect from both the Marlins and Jacksonville standpoint.

Now, over on some other board some guy was saying that everything he heard was that Marlins and Carolina would renew. Not sure where he got that sense everyone else think Marlins are coming to Jax. But....

If Marlins re-up with Carolina, I can see Dodgers and Jax resigning, and then the Lookouts are down to just 3 teams and one of them is Reds.

But if Marlins sign with Jax, Dodgers need a place to go, and I just have a feeling Lookouts owner would be all over them. They exude the organizational stability Burke has been talking about. And then Reds would be down to Carolina, Connecticut and Huntsville.

And I'm starting to talk myself into the fact that Sarasota Reds might extend for two years. The BoSox/Orioles Sarasota situation could not be more tenous, so since they have less than a month, I think Bosox annouce their move to Salem.

The Reds have to spend the whole summer of 2009 in Sarasota anyway and they own the franchise. Why not extend with Sarasota 2 more years, and see where the dust settles in 2010.

And should Boston stay in Ft Myers for Spring Training, and the Reds end up in Jacksonville, maybe the Reds keep the High A franchise, move it to some place like Orlando or Kissimmee and the Reds could have their High A and AA teams a couple hours away from each other.

Triples
09-10-2008, 10:44 AM
Rookie league.

Then what is the difference between Rookie and Short Season A. Seems like semantics to me.

Triples
09-10-2008, 10:48 AM
I really think that the Reds will not be in Chattanooga next year. I heard that the Diamondback's may be there next season.
The Reds really blew it if this is true. Chattanooga has been great to them and AT&T field is one of the nicest fields in the Southern league. :thumbdown

Disagree on the AT&T field being one of the nicest in the Southern League. its a miserably hot place to watch a game during the summer; especially on afternoon games. The stadium faces almost due west and there isn't a lick of shade in the entire ball park.

IslandRed
09-10-2008, 11:16 AM
Then what is the difference between Rookie and Short Season A. Seems like semantics to me.

It's no more semantics than the difference between "Low A" and "High A." It's about the quality of competition. The short-season leagues exist primarily to give just-drafted players a place to ease into pro ball, and if a club has both a Short-Season A and a Rookie League team, its more advanced draftees go to the former. The Reds, meanwhile, have to decide whether its more advanced draftees have to be thrown straight into the fire of a full-season club or go beat up on inferior competition at Billings.