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View Full Version : Brandon Phillips at SS. Why?



DTCromer
08-23-2008, 06:20 PM
Just a question from the ham and eggers here in the Sun Deck. Why do so many people still think we'll move him to SS? I'm not saying all of Reds fans want to, but I continually see posts suggesting he move there. He's the best defensive 2nd basemen in the league and you want to move him to SS?

Awesome.

DannyB
08-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Just a question from the ham and eggers here in the Sun Deck. Why do so many people still think we'll move him to SS? I'm not saying all of Reds fans want to, but I continually see posts suggesting he move there. He's the best defensive 2nd basemen in the league and you want to move him to SS?

Awesome.


I doubt it will happen but I would like to see it.Phillips could be the best shortstop on the team.

Dunnateher
08-23-2008, 07:08 PM
I think he came up at short in Cleveland. He joked that he didn't want to play short after all the injuries at short this year. It is much easier to find a second baseman than a shortstop that can hit.

FlightRick
08-23-2008, 07:43 PM
I'm not lobbying hard for Phillips-to-SS or anything, but depending on personnel, I think you at least keep it under consideration so long as you have reason to believe Phillips can play the position (and potentially, play it better than anyone on our current roster).

Simple matter of flexibility: if you have a guy who could be EITHER a 2B or a SS, then when you go shopping to plug holes in the off-season, you don't have to limit yourself.... you can at least consider that grade-A 2B that's threatening to fall into your lap, rather than insta-passing on him because you "need" a SS (and end up with a grade-C one).

Same exact thing applies in our outfield, if you ask me... I forget if it was Welsh or Brantley, but one of them was saying that it'd be a crime to already be limiting Jay Bruce to RF next year. He's clearly not the player he's going to be, yet (I hope), and that goes as much for what he can do in the field as what he's been able to show so far at the plate. Bruce *can* play CF, so why not -- in the back of your mind -- leave that mental option open? You're doing the franchise a disservice if you pigeonhole Bruce at a time when he's still malleable, only to go out Roster Shopping and settle for lesser players because your inside-the-box thinking has created a perceived "need" at a spot that could have been addressed from within.

I mean, it's obviously not a long-term solution, but it's just something to keep in mind if the vagaries of our top-developing minor leaguers mean we have to temporarily move somebody (EE? Votto?) to a corner OF spot. Or if changes in the free agent market make available serviceable corner OFers for only 2-3 year contracts (maybe an aging-but-solid guy like Abreu?). There are at least some ways I can envision it where the Reds' optimal alignment has Bruce in CF for another year or two. Anything to avoid another Patterson Debacle or people honestly proposing that we trade for Juan Pierre.

Same thing holds with Phillips: you're insane to PUSH him to SS, but if him playing there makes the Reds better, you're even crazier for not considering the move. At this point, so long as Gonzalez comes back strong from the get-go next year, it's probably not even really an issue... but if there are even hints of doubt about him, and you're seriously looking at Keppinger as an everyday option, that's when the Reds'll need to keep an open mind.


Rick

LouisvilleCARDS
08-23-2008, 09:22 PM
SS or 2B - the other position needs to be filled too. At this point, we need a whole left side of the infield, so moving him from one position to another really doesn't make a difference.

FlightRick
08-24-2008, 03:26 AM
SS or 2B - the other position needs to be filled too. Moving him from one position to another really doesn't make a difference.

Surely that MIGHT be true if our "shopping" for other IF pieces includes players as versatile as Phillips, but consider....

If the stewardess asks you if you had the steak or the fish, wouldn't you love to be in the position of being able to say "Yes, of course, I had the lasagna"?

Which is to say: the steak will no doubt be crappy shoe-leather that makes the Waffle House look like Sizzler, and the fish will render you so delirious you're asking young boys if they enjoy gladiator movies, so you're lucky to have that ever-functional lasagna dinner already in your belly.

Which is also to say: yeah, so I just watched "Airplane!" and a winner is you.

Point being is that it DOES make a difference when you're looking to plug holes. Assuming that there is some open line of communication with Phillips and an organizational belief that he can play SS very effectively without being a drama queen about it, it has a HUGE impact on how we go about visualizing our roster and who we can and cannot sign. [Again: same deal with Bruce in the OF.]

Yes, there are certain benefits to saying Phillips is one thing, and one thing only. And in the league's top 3 at that one thing, no small feat. You get stability. But there are other benefits if you're willing to consider Phillips as being top 6 at a DIFFERENT thing or REMAINING top 3 at the same thing when you're fleshing out your roster. You get flexibility. I think the latter is the preferable alternative.

Again, it's all predicated on the idea that we can establish that Phillips is both able and willing to play SS. But if we do that? Then we no longer have to settle for fish and steak at 2B and SS; we can have tasty, tasty lasagna oozing all over the middle IF, and limit ourselves to selecting only the best fish OR steak from what's available on the open market.

And stop calling me Shirley....



Rick

CWRed
08-24-2008, 01:03 PM
Why is Phillips batting 3rd? Oh it must be because of his stellar OBP. His ability to limit GIDP's. And his ferocious ability against righties. All of which I am sure Dusty is aware of. :confused:

And why oh why does BP get a pass with Reds fans?

But yes he should play SS.

mace
08-24-2008, 02:04 PM
I've not been a big advocate of moving Phillips, simply because he's developed so well at 2B. However, it seems that the Reds are currently wasting a terrific opportunity. Why not play him at SS the rest of the season just to see how it looks? There's nothing to lose, and it could only expand their options. It would also give them a chance to see Keppinger at 2B. Or even Rosales. Not to mention Hairston.

Caveman Techie
08-24-2008, 03:18 PM
Why is Phillips batting 3rd? Oh it must be because of his stellar OBP. His ability to limit GIDP's. And his ferocious ability against righties. All of which I am sure Dusty is aware of. :confused:

And why oh why does BP get a pass with Reds fans?

But yes he should play SS.

I was wondering who would be the next whipping boy on the team now that Dunn and Griffey are gone.

CWRed
08-25-2008, 01:40 PM
I was wondering who would be the next whipping boy on the team now that Dunn and Griffey are gone.

Not whipping him. Just giving another example why Dusty Baker doesn't realize what he has or doesn't have with his talent (or lack thereof). Phillips should hit 3rd against lefties. And 5th or 6th against righties.

kpresidente
08-26-2008, 06:59 AM
I'm not sure Phillips would be a good SS. His minor league FP at SS was .950, compared with .974 at 2B.

In all fairness, he's cut down on his errors in general, even at 2B, the last couple seasons. If that translates to SS, you're looking at something close to what we got from AGon, but as I remember, AGon caught a lot of flak around here for his FP.

Still, their isn't much in the organization as far a SS goes. All of our prospects except Janish seem better suited for 2B, along with Kepp and Hairston.

nemesis
08-26-2008, 11:13 AM
I would be all for trading a nice package to Colorado for Tulowitzki.

It would be keeping with the young defensive minded theme (he's only 23 and has only commited 18 errors in the last 2 years). Has shown lots of offensive potential, hit 25 Hr and 99 RBI's last year injury free. Is RIGHT handed and I would gladly give up a Main piece like Arroyo with a prospect package of:

Bailey/Thompson choice with a Dickerson/Valakia/Dorn/Rosales choice then a Roenicke/Fisher/Watson throw in. Maybe someone like Belisle who could have some value on their pitching staff.

Tulowitzki, Phillips and Stubbs up the middle would be a black hole for baseballs...

If we could pry away Iannetta who is only 25 and has only commited 1 ERROR in 1300+ innings in COLORADO it would probaly take this team to the middle of the defensive pack from just those 2.

Not to mention the offense they could possibly bring from the right side.

An Opening Day Lineup would look something like this:

CF - Freel
LF - Dickerson/FA/Trade
1B - Votto
2B - Phillips
RF - Bruce
SS - Tulowitzki
3B - Encarnacion
C - Iannetta

With a rotation of:

Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Owings
FA / R. Ramierez (Why does everyone over look this kid?)

By September it could look like this heading into 2010...

CF - Stubbs
1B - Alonso
LF - Votto
2B - Phillips
RF - Bruce
SS - Tulowitzki
3B - Encarnacion with Frazier in AAA and Soto in AA
C - Iannetta

That's assuming the Rockies took Arroyo, Bailey, Roenicke, Belisle, Watson, Valakia and Dorn for both Tulowitzki and Iannetta

Lockdwn11
08-26-2008, 05:42 PM
The biggest and only reason for moving BP to short for me is ....... Jeff Keppinger is our starting SS. Other then that I say leave him at 2nd

Red in Atl
08-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Here's a thought, does Philips ability to go to the middle like he just did tonight, add to the range of Kepp at ss? At least enough to justify leaving BP at second? And next year they have to play AGon if healthy.

If AGon doesn't cut it with the bat, then Kepp is ready. At least one last worry for next year, when there are other bigger problems; CF, another starter, another bp heavy and 3rd base issues.