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Red in Chicago
08-24-2008, 03:05 PM
someone please post lineup. I'm not home to do so.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 03:12 PM
Dickerson, lf

Cabrera, ss

Bphillips, 2b

Votto, 1b

Bruce, rf

Encarnacion, 3b

Patterson, cf

Bako, c

Cueto, rhp

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Cueto has been filthy lately, hopefully that continues today.

dougdirt
08-24-2008, 03:59 PM
So is Rosales ever going to play? I mean really, Jolbert Cabrera needs playing time why?

Highlifeman21
08-24-2008, 04:01 PM
So is Rosales ever going to play? I mean really, Jolbert Cabrera needs playing time why?

I'm not sure what Rosales did to deserve this kinda treatment from The Dusty.

I'd love to see him get in the lineup at any position so we can get a better look at him.

You're absolutely right about wholebear. He needs zero playing time.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:07 PM
This kid throws some SERIOUS gas!

FB sitting at 97-100.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:10 PM
I like Ubaldo Jimenez a lot. He throws easy gas.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:14 PM
Groundball to Votto. He botches it. I'm sure they'll give him a hit though.

NC Reds
08-24-2008, 04:16 PM
Dusty is giving AB's to Cabrera and Patterson - two guys who should not have any consideration for 2009. He's incompetent.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:20 PM
The defense is awful, but it seems like they play even worse behind Cueto. Geez. That error looks like it will lead to a big inning.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:20 PM
Cueto's keeping the ball low and just missing the zone. If that pitch is going to be called a ball all game...this is going to be a LOOOOOOONG game.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:22 PM
Bases loaded and only one out.

If Votto makes that then there would have been two outs and nobody on base with Cueto pitching out of the windup.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:24 PM
Well, the 2 rook's who played so well yesterday are making things interesting today. E votto, E bruce. 1-0 Rocks.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:25 PM
What did Bruce do? I turned it. I'm tired of watching little league defense.

mth123
08-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Well, the 2 rook's who played so well yesterday are making things interesting today. E votto, E bruce. 1-0 Rocks.

Bruce's defense is less than advertised IMO. Still light years better than Griffey and Dunn, but less than advertised.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:26 PM
bases loaded, 1 run in, and Cueto still hasn't allowed a hit. Sheesh. not the formula for success in this ballpark.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:26 PM
What did Bruce do? I turned it. I'm tired of watching little league defense.

Short fly ball near the line. After a long run, he just dropped it. No doubt it should've been caught.

mth123
08-24-2008, 04:27 PM
What did Bruce do? I turned it. I'm tired of watching little league defense.

Tough play that he came a long way for, but the ball hit off of his glove. A major league OF makes that catch IMO.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Cueto was forced to throw 35 pitches in the first inning despite not allowing a hit. Those errors cost him probably 20 pitches, if not more.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:29 PM
Votto stays hot with a lead off double.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 04:30 PM
can Bruce and EdE get this run in?

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:30 PM
Man, Votto is just pounding the ball since he's come back. Even his outs are freaking bullets. Lead off double to the wall.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:32 PM
Bruce's defense is less than advertised IMO. Still light years better than Griffey and Dunn, but less than advertised.

Overall I've been impressed with his defense. I think the more he plays right field the better he'll get. He's bounced between LF, CF, and RF this year. The more he plays in right the better he should get.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 04:32 PM
fantastic swing by Edwin

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:33 PM
1st and 3rd for the black hole. I'd say that there's one down...but I already see 3 down.

Double play ball, but Patterson hustled and beat it out. Votto scores. Hmmm...nice to be wrong. :O) 1-1 game.

mth123
08-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Overall I've been impressed with his defense. I think the more he plays right field the better he'll get. He's bounced between LF, CF, and RF this year. The more he plays in right the better he should get.

I agree that he'll probably improve in RF, but even his CF play, where he spent a lot of time, seems lacking to me. He's not "get him outta there" bad like Griffey was at the end, but he's not a plus out there either IMO.

NC Reds
08-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Corey Patterson is like a parody or something.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Patterson gets picked off. Unbelievable.

MrCinatit
08-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Patterson is brutal on the base paths, as well.

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 04:35 PM
I agree that he'll probably improve in RF, but even his CF play, where he spent a lot of time, seems lacking to me. He's not "get him outta there" bad like Griffey was at the end, but he's not a plus out there either IMO.

I agree that his range isn't great in CF but he can cover some ground in RF from what I've seen.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Wow. Speed kills.

Is there a worse baserunner in the bigs than Patterson? Maybe Freel?

Caveat Emperor
08-24-2008, 04:41 PM
Man, Votto is just pounding the ball since he's come back. Even his outs are freaking bullets. Lead off double to the wall.

Maybe we should call him Mr. September?

mth123
08-24-2008, 04:44 PM
Another Error. I think Votto should make that play even though EdE's throw wasn't so hot. IMO a poor defender at 1B can drag down an entire IF. It's one reason I'm for Votto moving to LF where poor defense is less harmful. Its one thing to lack range, but to not complete the tough outs on groundballs really hurts. I think his range is OK, but wasted at 1B.

mth123
08-24-2008, 04:47 PM
Cueto with a perfect Sacrafice Bunt. Nobody on base though.

RedFanAlways1966
08-24-2008, 04:58 PM
The defense is awful, but it seems like they play even worse behind Cueto. Geez.

Made me look it up, OBM.

Errors made per start
Fogg: 1.08
Bailey & Belisle: 1.00
Arroyo: 0.78
Cueto: 0.77
Volquez: 0.54
Harang: 0.45
Thompson: 0.33

mth123
08-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Made me look it up, OBM.

Errors made per start
Fogg: 1.08
Bailey & Belisle: 1.00
Arroyo: 0.78
Cueto: 0.77
Volquez: 0.54
Harang: 0.45
Thompson: 0.33

Interesting list. Guys who give up the most hard hit balls tend to have the most errors behind them maybe?

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 05:07 PM
Uh-oh. Cueto pulled for some reason. Injury?

CTA513
08-24-2008, 05:07 PM
Uh-oh. Cueto pulled for some reason. Injury?

He was already at 74 pitches after 3 innings on a hot day.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 05:08 PM
He was already at 74 pitches after 3 innings on a hot day.

No, no chance he was pulled because of pitch count. Not a chance. This is something else.

mth123
08-24-2008, 05:10 PM
No, no chance he was pulled because of pitch count. Not a chance. This is something else.

I'd agree. Seems like he had another couple innings in him.

Degenerate39
08-24-2008, 05:11 PM
I just got home. Have they said anything about Johnny C.?

RedsManRick
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
Sore right tricep for Cueto. Not. Good.

cincyinco
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Soreness in his right tricep, also heard the word tendon in there. Just what I just heard on TV.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Sore right tricep for Cueto. Not. Good.

Not surprising, either. 30 innings of winter ball, and Baker squeezed 100+ pitches out of him in almost every start. The kid is 22, and in his first year of big league ball. He ain't like some veteran who's done it for years and who takes the winter off.

nate
08-24-2008, 05:25 PM
I thought George said "right bicep tendon."

I was half-asleep though.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 05:28 PM
To be examined in Cincy tomorrow, right tricep soreness. Per Marty

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Holliday singles to break up the no-no.

mth123
08-24-2008, 05:31 PM
On another note, I'm seeing numbers ranging from 93 to 95 on Masset's pitches. Not sure if the TV gun is accurate, but his stuff is better than I thought if its true.

Raisor
08-24-2008, 05:33 PM
To be examined in Cincy tomorrow, right tricep soreness. Per Marty

Shut him down. Shut him down now. Don't care if he's "fine" tomorrow. Shut him down.

nate
08-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Dickerson HR!

cincyinco
08-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Dickerson just hit a bomb. 3 to 1

edabbs44
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Not surprising, either. 30 innings of winter ball, and Baker squeezed 100+ pitches out of him in almost every start. The kid is 22, and in his first year of big league ball. He ain't like some veteran who's done it for years and who takes the winter off.

Or in 12 of 26 starts.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Dickerson has been very, very impressive. These days, his quick, compact swing is a better swing than Bruce's longer, yank'em swing.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Or in 12 of 26 starts.

exactly. Dusty has handled Cueto beautifully all year long. Anybody saying otherwise is just looking to bash Dusty.

I also agree (at least partially) with the shutting him down comment too. I'm not sure if you have to shut him down COMPLETELY though. Skipping a start here and there wouldn't be a bad idea though. In fact, I'd be all for a 7 or 8 man rotation at this time of the year. Extra rest for all the starters, extra chances to see the young kids from the minors and extra arms that would allow for shorter starts for our current 1-4 starters.

nate
08-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Nice AB by EE so far.

nate
08-24-2008, 05:52 PM
And he parlays it into a walk.

MartyFan
08-24-2008, 05:53 PM
Just logging on...what happened with Cueto? Is he hurt?

MrCinatit
08-24-2008, 05:53 PM
Great AB by Edwin. Even should Jiminez get out of this inning, that at bat alone may have taken him out of the rest of the game.
I would love to see this kind of patience the rest of the year from him and everyone else.

Degenerate39
08-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Pitchers love having Corey Patterson at the plate with the bases loaded

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Or in 12 of 26 starts.

My bad. But since April, it's been 12 of 20. I think the kid has been a bit overworked, given his age, his rookie status and his winter regimen

Falls City Beer
08-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Blaming Cueto's injury on Dusty is ridiculous. Pitchers get hurt. All the time.

With his height, Cueto's been fairly lucky not to have been injured before.

The Reds should as a rule keep all pitchers (except fringe ones) out of Winter Ball. It's an injury factory.

NC Reds
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Pitchers love having Corey Patterson at the plate with the bases loaded

Pitchers just love having him at the plate.

"You mean I can just throw the ball wherever and he swings? Sweet."

remdog
08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Just logging on...what happened with Cueto? Is he hurt?

Read the thread. It's all there as is known so far.

Rem

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Anybody saying otherwise is just looking to bash Dusty.

Nope. There are game threads from pretty early in the year where many of us were bemoaning how long Baker would stay with Cueto.

Let's hope the soreness is nothing serious.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 05:57 PM
nm

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:00 PM
Blaming an Cueto's injury on Dusty is ridiculous. Pitchers get hurt. All the time.

That's why you need to err on the side of caution. Cueto has been on pace for about 180-190 innings, I think, following on 30 innings of winter ball. Too much, in my opinion.

We can never know what causes what in a pitcher's arm, but we can make a judgment about whether Cueto has been handled with the requisite caution. I say no.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Where are Bray and Affeldt in this series?

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 06:03 PM
I just watched last inning and after Phillips and Votto walk, Bruce swings at three balls and strikes out. Edwin walks and they we have Patterson who nubs the ball in the infield on -- you guessed it -- three pitches. The pitcher couldn't throw a strike and yet there's Bruce and Patterson swinging away. I guess it's good for Phillips, Votto, and Edwin for their OBP, but it didn't amount to anything for the Reds, so maybe a dose of plate patience is in order for Jay and Corey?

Majewski comes in a allows two runners to reach. Remind me again. Why do we continue to keep him?

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:05 PM
Where are Bray and Affeldt in this series?

Let me answer my own question here.

Baker used Affeldt 8 times in 12 days from August 5th to the 16th. He hasn't pitched in over a week.

More evidence of Baker's "beautiful" handling of the staff?

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:05 PM
That's why you need to err on the side of caution. Cueto has been on pace for about 180-190 innings, I think, following on 30 innings of winter ball. Too much, in my opinion.

We can never know what causes what in a pitcher's arm, but we can make a judgment about whether Cueto has been handled with the requisite caution. I say no.

And yet at the same time, you want a pitcher to build up his endurance so he CAN go longer during a season. As long as he keeps the individual games' pitch counts within reason and you toss in the occasional extra day of rest, he'll be fine. And over the course of this season...that's exactly what Dusty's done. But this is the time of the season when fatigue will cause injuries more frequently...this is the first sign to increase his rest.

nate
08-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Well folks, here's a chance to see Gary Majewski swing the bat!

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Majik hitting for himself?!?

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 06:11 PM
..and George sounded excited that he made contact with the pitch.

Doesn't take much, i guess.

nate
08-24-2008, 06:11 PM
It was a brief chance, but a chance nevertheless. Grounder to 2nd.

Kc61
08-24-2008, 06:13 PM
Let me answer my own question here.

Baker used Affeldt 8 times in 12 days from August 5th to the 16th. He hasn't pitched in over a week.

More evidence of Baker's "beautiful" handling of the staff?


I don't think this reflects adversely on Dusty at all.

Affeldt pitched a lot when the Reds were still trying to get over .500 and salvage this season.

The likely reason Affeldt has worked less this series is that the Rockies are heavily right handed offensively. So Dusty has chosen to lean on his righty guys in the pen.

I'm disappointed that Lincoln has faded recently. He had a fine season until the last couple of weeks. Haven't watched him pitch recently, but his numbers haven't been as good.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:17 PM
The likely reason Affeldt has worked less this series is that the Rockies are heavily right handed offensively. So Dusty has chosen to lean on his righty guys in the pen.

Highly unlikely, in my opinion. You don't let a guy rot in the pen for over a week like that. And there was the Cubs series before this, with very close scores....

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Well, you needn't worry anymore. Affeldt in.

nate
08-24-2008, 06:20 PM
And since he's been missed so much, Affeldt comes in.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:23 PM
Affeldt = no appearances since the 16th, until today.

Bray -- 1/3 of an inning since the 15th.

And Baker said he had no choice but to use Lincoln last night. I don't get it.

Kc61
08-24-2008, 06:24 PM
Highly unlikely, in my opinion. You don't let a guy rot in the pen for over a week like that. And there was the Cubs series before this, with very close scores....


So you're implying that Affeldt was injured due to overuse. I think that's the highly unlikely scenario. Because Affeldt just looked fine striking out Haupe on 3 or 4 pitches.

Dusty has favored lefty and righty relievers all year depending on the opponent's lineup tendencies. This is no exception.

And with the Reds hopelessly out of it, maybe he wanted to give Affeldt some additional rest against these righty lineups.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:27 PM
Bako's arm looks like a limp noodle. Hanigan should be in there...and should've been once Cueto was taken out. Bako doesn't deserve to start. Dusty's reasoning is because Bako works well with Volquez & Cueto...well, neither is in there....and the comedy of errors with Bako continues. Sheesh. PULL HIM already!

Red in Chicago
08-24-2008, 06:29 PM
am i watching the reds or a little league game here

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 06:29 PM
So you're implying that Affeldt was injured due to overuse. I think that's the highly unlikely scenario. Because Affeldt just looked fine striking out Haupe on 3 or 4 pitches.

Dusty has favored lefty and righty relievers all year depending on the opponent's lineup tendencies. This is no exception.

Whether Affeldt/Bray have not pitched for the last week + because of the manager's decision or because they've been sore/hurt, I don't know. But I do know Dusty's feast or famine approach to using them lately is not a good idea.

Affeldt doesn't look great, either. Couple of way wild pitches may be a symptom of rust, at least.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Man. WP for Affeldt. 3-2.

I don't think Bako had much of a chance on that one...but he should've had the other one.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Well...now we've seen Majewski and Affeldt, anyone else you want to see? :)

CTA513
08-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Dickerson runs around in circles as Stewarts ball goes over his head for a double.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Volquez to get an extra day of rest.....

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080824&content_id=3360727&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I think he's handling Edinson pretty well as well as Cueto.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 06:41 PM
Everybody die?

CTA513
08-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Phillips average is down to .266

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 06:52 PM
Bako's arm looks like a limp noodle. Hanigan should be in there...and should've been once Cueto was taken out. Bako doesn't deserve to start. Dusty's reasoning is because Bako works well with Volquez & Cueto...well, neither is in there....and the comedy of errors with Bako continues. Sheesh. PULL HIM already!

Reaonsing is that someone likes their vets.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:03 PM
Bruce doesn't even look like the same hitter we saw earlier in the year and in the minors. He's not showing ANY patience at the plate or ANY strike zone vision. Is his locker next to Patterson's? Moving him around the batting order isn't going to change his mechanics or his approach. He needs someone to work with him. (I wonder if Eric Davis is that person?)

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:04 PM
Cordero not available? Baby on the way? Or was Marty talking about someone else?

RedsManRick
08-24-2008, 07:04 PM
Sigh. Our horrible OBP is made even worse by our horrific base running. Just sad.

RedsManRick
08-24-2008, 07:05 PM
Bray isn't injured is he?

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:05 PM
Bruce doesn't even look like the same hitter we saw earlier in the year and in the minors. He's not showing ANY patience at the plate or ANY strike zone vision. Is his locker next to Patterson's? Moving him around the batting order isn't going to change his mechanics or his approach. He needs someone to work with him. (I wonder if Eric Davis is that person?)

Am I wrong or is Bruce going to left field less than he did when he first came up?

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:06 PM
Sigh. Our horrible OBP is made even worse by our horrific base running. Just sad.

Nah, that was just crappy luck for Jay. How often do you see a pitchout work? Just a great job of guessing by the Rocks.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:07 PM
Am I wrong or is Bruce going to left field less than he did when he first came up?

Left, right OR center. He's just not making contact.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:08 PM
Sigh. Our horrible OBP is made even worse by our horrific base running. Just sad.

I think that it is a poorly coached team. A bunch of calamities and errors waiting to happen and they frequently do with this bunch.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Left, right OR center. He's just not making contact.

Several of the Reds have hit poorly in August, Bruce is not unique in that set.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Am I wrong or is Bruce going to left field less than he did when he first came up?

It seems that way to me. I think he's taking fewer pitches, and his swing looks longer and more pull-oriented than when he arrived. Swinging at a lot of bad pitches.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:11 PM
From McCoy:


Some thought equal parts of thin air and thin defense put quick closure on Cincinnati Reds pitcher Johnny Cueto’s start in Coors Field Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately for the Reds, it was something more sinister that knocked him out of the game against the Colorado Rockies after only three innings — soreness in his triceps tendon.

Cueto, making his 27th start, returned to Cincinnati for a full evaluation today, but early indications are that the 22-year-old rookie may be shut down for the season.

The 22-year-old Dominican lasted didn’t give up a hit in his three innings, but he was forced to throw 74 pitches because his teammates made three errors in the first two innings and he walked three.

The score was 1-1 when Cueto left and Colorado’s run was unearned due to errors in the first inning by first baseman Joey Votto and right fielder Jay Bruce.

Cueto has thrown 155 innings this season after throwing 161 1/3 innings last year at Class A Sarasota, Class AA Chattanooga and Class AAA Louisville.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 07:13 PM
but early indications are that the 22-year-old rookie may be shut down for the season.

good

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:13 PM
That's a tough error to give Brandon. Deflected off of Weathers. 4 errors on us in ONE game. Yikes!

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:15 PM
Balk on Weathers...and he's throwing a hissy fit.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:16 PM
What a mess geez

D. Weathers relieved J. Affeldt
- R. Hanigan catching
- M. Holliday safe at first on second baseman B. Phillips' fielding error
- M. Holliday to second on balk
- B. Hawpe flied out to deep right, M. Holliday scored on right fielder J. Bruce's throwing error
G. Atkins singled to left

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:16 PM
Another E....Holliday scores. Good lord! Throwing error on Bruce on toss to third...skips past Edwin.

5 errors in the game. LOL. We've got more errors than hits. Pitiful.

NC Reds
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
gO reDz.

nate
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
That was quite a series of events.

RedsManRick
08-24-2008, 07:17 PM
I hope we lose this. I do not want to see Dusty managing this bullpen in extras.

Sea Ray
08-24-2008, 07:18 PM
Since Dusty lifted Bako anyway why didn't he pinch hit for him in the 8th? Why do you leave a .206 hitter in the game?

CTA513
08-24-2008, 07:18 PM
Wasn't the defense supposed to be getting better?

Sea Ray
08-24-2008, 07:19 PM
This team is unwatchable

mth123
08-24-2008, 07:19 PM
Errors: Votto, Bruce 2, Encanacion, Phillips.

At least its the core guys making the errors. Sheesh.

NC Reds
08-24-2008, 07:20 PM
Phillips' clown act continues this inning.

nate
08-24-2008, 07:20 PM
Wow, another error by BP.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Are you kidding me? Error number SIX!?! 2 by Phillips this inning......nope, they call it a hit. No, he should've had that.

remdog
08-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Phillips just flat out missed that ball. Should be another error.

Rem

CTA513
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Are you kidding me? Error number SIX!?! 2 by Phillips this inning......nope, they call it a hit. No, he should've had that.


Not sure how they can call that a hit when he should have caught it.

Falls City Beer
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Team's head clearly not in the game. *That* does fall on Dusty's shoulders.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
And I, idiot that I am wondered why no one was posting in the game thread. 5 errors (should have been 6), balks, passed balls, and walking batters in a save situation.

It's hopeless. Just quit now and call the season...

Kc61
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
I hope we lose this. I do not want to see Dusty managing this bullpen in extras.

Maybe the Reds should just forfeit the rest of the season. That way some folks will be spared Dusty's managing.

This game is just a learning experience for some guys. I hope Bruce is made to understand that there was no reason to throw to third on that play on which the tying run scored. Sure, EE should have caught the ball, but there was absolutely no chance of getting the runner.

That's the one play this inning that bothered me because the throw was unnecessary. The rest of this is awful but it doesn't matter.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Walks the bases loaded. Tulowitzki up....pops up...runners hold on good throw by Bruce. Taveras up....let's see if ole' smoke & mirrors can escape another one.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:26 PM
Houdini pulls another rabbit out of his hat. That was an UUUUUUUUGGGGLY inning.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:27 PM
And I, idiot that I am wondered why no one was posting in the game thread. 5 errors (should have been 6), balks, passed balls, and walking batters in a save situation.

It's hopeless. Just quit now and call the season...

I know one thing if nothing else, each of you fans deserve better, especially with the time, energy, love, faith and belief (I forgot money) that all of you put into the team daily.

MrCinatit
08-24-2008, 07:28 PM
And I, idiot that I am wondered why no one was posting in the game thread. 5 errors (should have been 6), balks, passed balls, and walking batters in a save situation.

It's hopeless. Just quit now and call the season...

From the looks of the play during this game, that has already happened.
I can live somewhat with the errors by the youngsters. They are still learning. It is the poor plays by Phillips, the terrible throws by Edwin and the mindless balk by Weathers that grate on my nerves. This continues to be the dumbest team in baseball, no matter who is on the field (from Freel to Phillips) or who is at the helm (from Narron to Baker).

remdog
08-24-2008, 07:29 PM
Weathers was still barking about that balk call when he left the mound. Actually I don't balme him and the Denver announcer, (former pitcher) George Frazier, said it shouldn't have been called either.

Rem

mth123
08-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Team's head clearly not in the game. *That* does fall on Dusty's shoulders.

Nah. Its just bad fielding. This team has trouble catchingthe ball. Even the throwing errors should have been caught. Votto should have Had EdE's and EdE should have had Bruce's.

I've been critical of Dusty, but I can certainly understand why he runs Patterson out there. He's pretty dependable on defense and watching this ugliness night in and night out would probably make me want a dependable defender in CF as well. I think Dickerson is that, but Dusty's going with what he knows so Patterson is out there.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2008, 07:33 PM
fun game, folks

if we get into a few extra frames, it could get weird

Sea Ray
08-24-2008, 07:36 PM
Just like all the Reds players this hasn't been a career year for Dusty either...

remdog
08-24-2008, 07:36 PM
Hanigan walks to open the inning but Dickerson bunts too hard and forces Ryan at 2nd. Oh well....

Rem

nate
08-24-2008, 07:40 PM
Weathers still in, Bray warming up.

Hollcat
08-24-2008, 07:42 PM
Nice hustle there by Phillips

Kc61
08-24-2008, 07:43 PM
I don't know what anyone expected. The team traded Dunn and Griffey, is playing with three rookies daily, sometimes four (when Hanigan catches), and isn't good defensively anyway.

This is just a learning experience for many of these guys. So nobody should be aggravated.

And be thankful, yes thankful, that Dusty is managing as opposed to some firebrand manager fighting for a contract next year. Dusty is letting his kids play, isn't pulling them after a mistake, and understands the deal.

Everyone always says, blow it up, play the kids. This is what you get.

And if the veterans aren't playing with the most intensity right now, a losing, very young team out of it in late August, I can live with it. Enjoy watching the kids develop, that's the reason to watch right now.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:46 PM
I don't know what anyone expected. The team traded Dunn and Griffey, is playing with three rookies daily, sometimes four (when Hanigan catches), and isn't good defensively anyway.

This is just a learning experience for many of these guys. So nobody should be aggravated.

And be thankful, yes thankful, that Dusty is managing as opposed to some firebrand manager fighting for a contract next year. Dusty is letting his kids play, isn't pulling them after a mistake, and understands the deal.

Everyone always says, blow it up, play the kids. This is what you get.

And if the veterans aren't playing with the most intensity right now, a losing, very young team out of it in late August, I can live with it. Enjoy watching the kids develop, that's the reason to watch right now.

I agree....but realizing that it will happen and watching it happen are two totally different things. Not getting aggrevated is asking for a lot when you see things like this.

CTA513
08-24-2008, 07:47 PM
Reds pitchers have walked 9 batters today

nate
08-24-2008, 07:48 PM
Bray and Kep come in. 1st and 2nd, 1 out.

nate
08-24-2008, 07:50 PM
Hawpe flies out.

nate
08-24-2008, 07:51 PM
Bray gets the strikeout to end the inning.

RedsManRick
08-24-2008, 07:52 PM
So what starter pitches after the bullpen is emptied? Arroyo?

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:52 PM
Colorado 10th Inning Summary

- C. Barmes fouled out to first
- S. Smith hit for T. Buchholz
- S. Smith walked
- M. Holliday walked, S. Smith to second
- B. Bray relieved D. Weathers
- J. Keppinger at shortstop
- B. Hawpe flied out to center
- G. Atkins struck out swinging
- End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)

CTA513
08-24-2008, 07:53 PM
So what starter pitches after the bullpen is emptied? Arroyo?

Harang

Kc61
08-24-2008, 07:54 PM
I agree....but realizing that it will happen and watching it happen are two totally different things. Not getting aggrevated is asking for a lot when you see things like this.

When you watch Bray throw well like he just did, or Votto hit consistently, or Bruce hit a long ball, that's the pleasure of this season. I also got a kick out of Weathers in the ninth, barking at the ump after the balk call.

It would be a lot worse if the future looked bad, but it looks very bright. A good minor league pipeline, the willingness of ownership to spend some dollars.

So don't be aggravated. Give Walt some time and I'm hopefuly we'll be watching meaningful baseball in a year or two.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:54 PM
[sarcasm]Bray is overrated. He always let's inherented runners score. His ERA is the most deceptive stat out there.[ /sarcasm]

Nice job by Billy boy.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 07:55 PM
So what starter pitches after the bullpen is emptied? Arroyo?

Bray is the last reliever available, I did not realize that. The game isn't worth a pitcher being over used.


J. Cueto 3.0 0 1 0 3 4 0 4.65
N. Masset 2.0 1 0 0 2 3 0 1.88
G. Majewski 1.0 3 1 1 1 0 0 5.24
J. Affeldt 2.0 2 0 0 0 3 0 3.34
D. Weathers 1.1 2 1 0 3 0 0 3.45
B. Bray 0.2 0 0 0 0 1 0 2.63


He does have Cordero doesn't he?

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:56 PM
So what starter pitches after the bullpen is emptied? Arroyo?

I'd say Fogg for sure. If we have to bring someone up to fill in, fine. But Fogg's the expendable one IMO.

MrCinatit
08-24-2008, 07:57 PM
GAH! Extra inning game...and an Emergency Alert System (Flash Flood warning several counties away) is issued.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 07:59 PM
Bray is the last reliever available, I did not realize that. The game isn't worth a pitcher being over used.


J. Cueto 3.0 0 1 0 3 4 0 4.65
N. Masset 2.0 1 0 0 2 3 0 1.88
G. Majewski 1.0 3 1 1 1 0 0 5.24
J. Affeldt 2.0 2 0 0 0 3 0 3.34
D. Weathers 1.1 2 1 0 3 0 0 3.45
B. Bray 0.2 0 0 0 0 1 0 2.63


He does have Cordero doesn't he?

No, Cordero's unavailable...his wife's having a baby. Marty mentioned it earlier. I guess that in a pinch he could use Lincoln...but Dusty stated he didn't want to use him today.

nate
08-24-2008, 07:59 PM
EE with a Texas Leaguer keeps the inning alive.

Kc61
08-24-2008, 08:00 PM
I'd say Fogg for sure. If we have to bring someone up to fill in, fine. But Fogg's the expendable one IMO.

What do you know a hit by the Reds. Shocked.

I guess Harang for 63 pitches today probably isn't the best idea.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:01 PM
No, Cordero's unavailable...his wife's having a baby. Marty mentioned it earlier.

Oh :bang: I missed that.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Cincinnati 11th Inning Summary

- B. Fuentes relieved T. Buchholz
- J. Votto struck out looking
- J. Bruce struck out swinging
- E. Encarnacion singled to right
- C. Patterson struck out swinging
- End of Inning (0 Runs, 1 Hit, 0 Errors)

3 - 3 bottom 11th

nate
08-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Bray stays in.

Rockies, 17 men LOB today.

Reds, 5 errors.

Falls City Beer
08-24-2008, 08:05 PM
It would be a lot worse if the future looked bad, but it looks very bright. A good minor league pipeline, the willingness of ownership to spend some dollars.

So don't be aggravated. Give Walt some time and I'm hopefuly we'll be watching meaningful baseball in a year or two.

My philosophy in life is that you're always one mistake away from destitution. There are bigger mistakes and smaller obviously--and the vast majority of them fall in the latter class--but this organization has heaped the former upon themselves with such alacrity and downright wiliness that I fear they'll be unable to realize a good thing if (not when) they have it. Up is still down; black is still white. And the hope of this organization is riding on the clarity of *one* person. The future as I see it is only as bright as the next great move it makes.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:05 PM
Reds have struck out 14 times today.
Reds pitchers have issued 9 walks today.
Reds have committed 5 errors today.
Reds have 2 wild pitches today.
Reds have committed a balk today.
Reds have been caught stealing twice today.
Reds have committed a passed ball today.

A banner day in Redleg nation. :O) Hey, at least you can't say the game's been boring. *grin*

mth123
08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
Reds have struck out 14 times today.
Reds pitchers have issued 9 walks today.
Reds have committed 5 errors today.
Reds have 2 wild pitches today.
Reds have committed a balk today.
Reds have been caught stealing twice today.
Reds have committed a passed ball today.

A banner day in Redleg nation. :O) Hey, at least you can't say the game's been boring. *grin*

Midseason form here in the dog days.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:09 PM
LOL. The amazing thing about all those stats is the fact that we're still tied. That's mindboggling. The Rockies have stranded SEVEN-FRICKIN-TEEN runners. Good lord.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:10 PM
My philosophy in life is that you're always one mistake away from destitution. There are bigger mistakes and smaller obviously--and the vast majority of them fall in the latter class--but this organization has heaped the former upon themselves with such alacrity and downright wiliness that I fear they'll be unable to realize a good thing if (not when) they have it. Up is still down; black is still white. And the hope of this organization is riding on the clarity of *one* person. The future as I see it is only as bright as the next great move it makes.

Well said Dr.

nate
08-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Bray gets out of it. To the 12th!

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:14 PM
Keppinger
Hanigan
Dickerson

Due up for the Reds in the top of the 12Th

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:14 PM
2 solid innings from Billy. I'd let him go out there for one more inning, then I'd have to go to Fogg. He hasn't thrown since Thursday, this might even be his day to throw.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:15 PM
Colorado 11th Inning Summary

- I. Stewart singled to center
- C. Iannetta sacrificed to pitcher, I. Stewart to second
- T. Tulowitzki grounded out to third
- W. Taveras popped out to shallow right center
- End of Inning (0 Runs, 1 Hit, 0 Errors)

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 08:15 PM
How long before Dusty has Volquez warming up?

nate
08-24-2008, 08:16 PM
I'm hoping we get to see Javy pitch.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:18 PM
How long before Dusty has Volquez warming up?

Ouch !:nono:

nate
08-24-2008, 08:18 PM
Hannigan works a walk.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:20 PM
C'mon Dickerson be a hero

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:20 PM
Javy on deck......warming up is.......*drumroll*.......Mike Lincoln

nate
08-24-2008, 08:23 PM
Javy walks after the Dickerson flyout. 1st and 2nd, 2 outs and BP up.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:23 PM
Valentin walks

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:23 PM
Javy draws a walk. 1st & 2nd with 2 outs for Brandon.

nate
08-24-2008, 08:24 PM
BP flies out on the first pitch.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:25 PM
Okay Brandon, you want to be the leader of the team...time to step up and atone for your earlier mistakes and your current oh-fer


.....or not.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 08:25 PM
Phillips should be fined $5,000 each time he swings at the first pitch and makes an out--which seems like it happens 4 times a game.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:26 PM
BP flies out on the first pitch.

That's what I thought, :(

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:26 PM
Phillips should be fined $5,000 each time he swings at the first pitch and makes an out--which seems like it happens 4 times a game.

Nah, make him do pushups at the plate like Willie Mays Hayes. :O)

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:27 PM
Cincinnati 12 th Inning Summary

- C. Barmes at shortstop
- O. Quintanilla at second
- R. Speier relieved B. Fuentes
- J. Keppinger grounded out to second
- R. Hanigan walked
- C. Dickerson lined out to deep center
- J. Valentin hit for B. Bray
- J. Valentin walked, R. Hanigan to second
- B. Phillips popped out to right
- End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)

Lincoln to relieve

nate
08-24-2008, 08:27 PM
Hot Rod in.

nate
08-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Barmes pops it up in the infield, one down.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Homerun Rockies end it in 12

nate
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Quintanilla home run.

Yes, Quintanilla.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
Ballgame. Walk off HR by Quintanilla.

CTA513
08-24-2008, 08:30 PM
That was only the 2nd home run of his career.

_Sir_Charles_
08-24-2008, 08:31 PM
You gotta feel bad for Lincoln. He obviously needed a day off...his performance proves it.

mth123
08-24-2008, 08:31 PM
Ballgame. Walk off HR by Quintanilla.

Mercy killing IMO. The Reds needed no more innings heaped on its staff.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 08:33 PM
That was quick. Reds get 5 hits in 12 innings, commit 5 errors, and walk 9 Rockies. They didn't deserve to win.

And to think I sat here and watched it. It's a sure sign of insanity.

And to those who say this is what you get with kids, let me remind you that Phillips, Encarnacion, Patterson, Bako, and others are not kids. I'm not worried about the kids. I worried about some of the veterans these days. First pitch hitting from some is a bad example for the youngsters and it most always results in disaster when it's done in every at bat. And the fielding. Words to not describe why this team cannot catch a ball on a play. None.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:33 PM
Poor execution and bad fundamental play dooms the Reds today, how many times have we seen that this year?

Base Running
SB - C Patterson (13, 2nd base off T Buchholz/C Iannetta).

CS - C Patterson (9, 2nd base by U Jimenez), J Bruce (5, 2nd base by T Buchholz/C Iannetta).
Fielding
E - J Votto (11, ground ball); J Bruce 2 (7, fly ball, throw); E Encarnacion (20, throw); B Phillips (6, catch).

PB - P Bako.

DP - 1 (J Cabrera-B Phillips-J Votto).

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:38 PM
That was quick. Reds get 5 hits in 12 innings, commit 5 errors, and walk 9 Rockies. They didn't deserve to win.

And to think I sat here and watched it. It's a sure sign of insanity.

And to those who say this is what you get with kids, let me remind you that Phillips, Encarnacion, Patterson, Bako, and others are not kids. I'm not worried about the kids. I worried about some of the veterans these days. First pitch hitting from some is a bad example for the youngsters and it most always results in disaster when it's done in every at bat. And the fielding. Words to not describe why this team cannot catch a ball on a play. None.

Neither is Cabrera

Plus 14 K's by Reds batters

WVRedsFan
08-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Dusty was out of pitchers, but Lincoln is really getting hit hard. He's only pitched 9 innings ince August 3rd, and yet he needs rest. His numbers over the last ten appearances are horrible:

IP - 9
H -11
R - 9
ER -9
BB -3
SO -5
ERA - 9.00

Since August 19th--a total of 4 appearances:

IP - 2.2
H - 7
R - 8
ER - 8
BB - 1
SO - 1
ERA - 32.72

Doubt it's fatigue.

Spring~Fields
08-24-2008, 08:51 PM
Dusty was out of pitchers, but Lincoln is really getting hit hard. He's only pitched 9 innings ince August 3rd, and yet he needs rest. His numbers over the last ten appearances are horrible:

IP - 9
H -11
R - 9
ER -9
BB -3
SO -5
ERA - 9.00

Since August 19th--a total of 4 appearances:

IP - 2.2
H - 7
R - 8
ER - 8
BB - 1
SO - 1
ERA - 32.72

Doubt it's fatigue.

Is he the one that had all the past arm trouble and this was his first year back?

I think that they need some fresh arms, they are playing for nothing at this point with such a bad season.

remdog
08-24-2008, 09:11 PM
Is he the one that had all the past arm trouble and this was his first year back?

I think that they need some fresh arms, they are playing for nothing at this point with such a bad season.

Yes. Lincoln was out for three years.

However, in terms of 'fresh arms', where are ya' gonna' get 'em? Everyone says things like 'bring up so-and-so from L'ville. But, in reality, the guys down there have been throwing since Feb. and in real ballgames since April. Their arms aren't any fresher that the arms on the Reds. (famous shrug) There just isn't a lot of help available.

Rem

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2008, 10:05 PM
The atrocity at Coors Field

By Hal McCoy | Sunday, August 24, 2008, 08:52 PM
What do you think?

Losing the worst-played major-league baseball game in this millennium was bad enough, but the Cincinnati Reds lost more than that — pending a medical work-up today of pitcher Johnny Cueto.

The Reds lost an almost indescribable game to the Colorado Rockies, 4-3, in 12 innings, but the real news happened about 3 1/2 hours before Rockies utility infielder Omar Quintanilla hit a walk-off home run against Mike Lincoln.

That’s when Cueto walked into the dugout after the third inning and said his elbow hurt. He was immediately removed.

Some thought equal parts of thin air and thin defense put quick closure on Cueto’s start in Coors Field Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately for the Reds, it was something more sinister that knocked him out — soreness in his triceps tendon.

Cueto, making his 27th start, returned to Cincinnati on owner Bob Castellini’s private jet for a full evaluation today, but early indications are that the 22-year-old rookie may be shut down for the season.

The 22-year-old Dominican didn’t give up a hit in his three innings, but he was forced to throw 74 pitches because his teammates made three errors in the first two innings and he walked three.

“He came in between innings and said he was developing some stiffness and soreness in the back of his elbow,” said trainer Mark Mann. “That’s right where the triceps tendon comes into the elbow. Johnny being as young as he is, at this point of the season, logging as many innings as he has (155), we want to err on the side of caution, take no chances.”

And there was another perplexing situation in the ninth inning with the Reds leading, 3-2. It was closer time, Francisco Cordero time.

Instead, David Weathers walked to the mound and gave up an unearned run that tied the game as the Reds made two errors. Weathers committed a balk to put the tying run at second, plus he gave up a walk and two hits.

“Cordero had to leave and go home due to a personal matter,” said manager Dusty Baker. “We hope he’ll be back with us in Houston.”

As far as the game goes, it was the Reds falling out of an ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way to the ground.

They made as many errors (five) as they had hits (five), they struck out 14 times. They walked nine Rockies, threw two wild pitches, committed a balk, perpetrated a passed ball and Corey Patterson made his daily baserunning blunder by getting picked off base.

The videotape is going to Cooperstown as one of the five worst professional baseball games ever played.

Colorado stranded 18 and was 0 for 16 with runners in scoring position. Sound familiar? One difference. The Rockies won.

The game details are right out of a Dean Koontz novel. Scary.

Colorado took a 1-0 lead in the first when the Reds made two errors. First baseman Joey Votto kicked a ground ball, then Cueto walked two to fill the bases. Garrett Atkins blooped one down the right field line and right field Jay Bruce ran a long, long way. But he didn’t need to dive and the ball skidded off his glove for an error a run.

The Reds tied it in the second on Votto’s double and a single by Edwin Encarnacion.

Cueto left after three, replaced by Nick Massek, who pitched two scoreless innings while the Reds took a 3-1 lead, scoring one in the fifth on Paul Bako’s sacrifice fly and one in the sixth on Chris Dickerson’s third home run.

The Rockies pulled to within 3-2 in the seventh when Matt Holliday led with a single off Jeremy Affeldt, then stole second and third and scored on a wild pitch.

Then came Weathers in the ninth and Holliday reached on second baseman Brandon Phillips error on a ball that ticked off Weathers’ glove. Weathers was called for a balk, moving Holliday to second.

He scored on a single by Atkins on which Bruce was given an error on his throw home.

Meanwhile, the Reds didn’t score from the sixth inning on and managed only one hit, Encarnacion’s two-out single in the 11th.

“We gave ‘em the first three runs on errors and didn’t get a hit after the sixth inning,” said Baker. “Doing that and making five errors (season’s high) makes it awfully hard to win a game.

“We just can’t get the big hit with runners on base, especially with two outs,” he said. “It has been haunting us all year and we are just not a very good team at that part of the game.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Spring~Fields
08-25-2008, 12:01 AM
As far as the game goes, it was the Reds falling out of an ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way to the ground.

They made as many errors (five) as they had hits (five), they struck out 14 times. They walked nine Rockies, threw two wild pitches, committed a balk, perpetrated a passed ball and Corey Patterson made his daily baserunning blunder by getting picked off base.

The videotape is going to Cooperstown as one of the five worst professional baseball games ever played.



:lol:

WVRedsFan
08-25-2008, 12:56 AM
Apparently two OF's (old farts) like Hal and I feel the same way. The Reds lately do not hit, field or pitch well and make mistakes on what should be simple everyday plays. I was upset that so many of the 5 errors were forced and seemingly a lack of concentration. The error and the hit that should have been an error on Phillips were simply indescribable.

You cannot blame all of this on the kids. Bruce seems to be trying to do too much (as well as being so impatient at the plate that he's swinging at anything--can't anyone on this coaching staff stop this?), Votto seems to have lapses in judgment, but overall is the star of the rookie class, Dickerson is a surprise and all will improve. But there is no excuse for Phillips, Edwin, Bako, and Patterson making the minor league mistakes they are making. It's pretty obvious the veterans are phoning it in right now. That's not a very good example for the kids and might point to where the real problem was with this club all along.

And to think a lot of folks thought it was Dunn and Griffey. Imagine that.