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camisadelgolf
09-03-2008, 07:58 AM
This is all speculation on my part, and every time I look at it, I see something I would change, but overall, I'm pretty happy with how I filled this out. Criticisms and comments are obviously welcome, so please have at it.


AAA AA A+ A Rk GCL
C Craig Tatum Eddy Rodriguez Devin Mesoraco Jordan Wideman Chris McMurray Petr Cech
1B Tonys Gutierrez Logan Parker Yonder Alonso Carlos Mendez Mike Konstanty Humberto Sosa
2B Danny Richar Justin Turner Jake Kahaulelio Alex Buchholz Mauricio Pimentel Yen-Wen Kuo
3B Mike Griffin Juan Francisco Brandon Waring Nefi Soto Frank Pfister Brodie Pullen
SS Paul Janish Chris Valaika Zack Cozart Cody Puckett Miguel Rojas Mariekson Gregorius
LF Danny Dorn Todd Frazier Kel Jones Tony Brown Byron Wiley Yorman Rodriguez
CF Drew Stubbs Chris Heisey Justin Reed Dave Sappelt Andrew Means Juan Duran
RF Shaun Cumberland Carson Kainer Danny Perales Alexis Oliveras Tyler Stovall Efrain Contreras

C Chris Kroski Chris Denove Jake Long Frank Meade Kevin Coddington Petr Cech
C Jason Bour
1B Mike McKennon Donald Lutz
2B Mike DeJesus Kevyn Feiner Jose Gualdron
3B Eric Eymann
SS Jose Castro Darrick Hale Junior Arias
OF Sean Henry B.J. Szymanski Denis Phipps Brandon Menchaca Sean Conner Samuel Vasquez
OF Matt Stiffler Theodis Bowe
UT Drew M. Anderson Justin Tordi Brett Bartles Kyle Day Daniel Morrison

SP Homer Bailey Jordan Smith Kyle Lotzkar Shea Snowden Clayton Shunick Tyler Cline
SP Daryl Thompson Travis Wood Matt Klinker Evan Hildenbrandt Oscar Castro Efrain Rodriguez
SP Matt Maloney Alex Smit Luis Montano Jamie Arneson Lance Janke Matt Fairel
SP Ben Jukich Scott Carroll Jeremy Horst Drew Bowman Leo Astorga Juan Carlos Sulbaran
SP Sam LeCure Travis Webb Dallas Buck Juan Rafael Enrique Garcia Tzu-Kai Chiu

RP Josh Roenicke Sean Watson Zach Stewart Aguido Gonzalez Josh Beal David Torcise
RP Justin James Ramon Geronimo Tyler Rhoden Brandon Rice Mike Bohana Luca Panerati
RP Carlos Fisher Pedro Viola Jeff Jeffords Mace Thurman Dan Zeffiro Matteo Pizziconi
RP Ty Pelland Lee Tabor Henry Arias Curtis Partch Junior Martinez Raul Rodriguez
RP Danny Herrera Terrell Young Ruben Medina Derrick Conatser Randall Linebaugh Bryan Gardner
RP Robert Manuel Phil Valiquette Joe Krebs Steve Otterness Will Hudgens Hector Santana
RP Ramon Ramirez Derrik Lutz Misael DeJesus Josh Ravin Justin Freeman Pedro Villareal
RP Enerio Del Rosario Daniel Guerrero Justin Walker
RP Blaine Howell
RP Greg Dombrowski
RP Jeremy Vinyard
RP Mike Henry

NOTES:
I presume that Ryan Hanigan, Chris Dickerson, Jay Bruce, Wilkin Castillo, Adam Rosales, and some other young guys in the organization could be on the 2009

Major League roster. In some cases, this is due to a lack of options (i.e. Bobby Livingston), lack of depth (Adam Rosales), and/or they're just ready for

MLB (Jay Bruce). Anyway, if you're looking for someone who isn't there, I probably just put him on the ML roster.

Players that I believe are most likely to leave as free agents:
Jon Adkins
Drew T. Anderson
Kevin Barker
Luis Bolivar
Alvin Colina
Jerry Gil
Aaron Herr
Mike Hrynio
Justin Lehr
Rob Mackowiak
Justin Mallett
Adam Pettyjohn
Yuber Rodriguez
Joe Valentine
Camilo Vazquez

Players I might release or put on the reserve list due to a lack of room:
James Avery
Scott Gaffney
Rafael Gonzalez
Anthony Gressick
Jason Louwsma
Logan Ondrusek
Ricky Rhodes
Eli Rimes
Todd Waller

There are also a ton of guys who played in the DSL this year, particularly pitchers, who could contribute for these teams in 2009, but I don't enough about them to speculate.

I'm not convinced that Juan Duran, Yorman Rodriguez, and Junior Arias are starting in the GCL. It's just that they're three big names that deserved being mentioned, and they could both see time in the GCL next year.

redhawk61
09-03-2008, 08:57 AM
From first look. Valaika will be in AAA next year, Soto in A+, Alonso(if he does well in Hawaii) will be in AA, and Dallas Buck I think will be pushed and be in AA. Stewart will be in AA, Roenicke will be in Cincy.

Also add Efrain Contreras to the Dayton roster

Valaika, Soto, Stewart, and Roenicke have nothing left to prove at the level you have them at.

camisadelgolf
09-03-2008, 09:35 AM
From first look. Valaika will be in AAA next year, Soto in A+, Alonso(if he does well in Hawaii) will be in AA, and Dallas Buck I think will be pushed and be in AA. Stewart will be in AA, Roenicke will be in Cincy.

Also add Efrain Contreras to the Dayton roster

Valaika, Soto, Stewart, and Roenicke have nothing left to prove at the level you have them at.

If Valaika is in AAA, is it as a shortstop or as a second baseman? And who does he push out of the lineup: Danny Richar or Paul Janish?

If Nefi Soto is bumped to A+, where does that put Brandon Waring?

I could see Stewart going to Chattanooga, but I really, really doubt that happens. He has a low ERA in Sarasota, but some of the peripherals are unimpressive.

I really don't think Roenicke is guaranteed to be in Cincinnati, especially because A.) the Reds are reportedly not enamored with him, B.) the Reds have other options, and C.) he isn't even on the 40-man roster.

I like the idea of adding Efrain Contreras to the Dayton roster, but it means someone would be bumped, or they would have to put a decent prospect on the reserved list. If he's back in the GCL, at least he's getting regular at-bats somewhere.

redhawk61
09-03-2008, 09:44 AM
well if Soto is in A+ he will be at 3b/LF Waring is at 1b/3b with Alonso in AA

I also think one of Richar or Janish will be up in Cincy on the bench next year.

Roenicke being on the 40 doesn't really mean anything, we are talking next year when there will be a lot of FA's off the 40 with guys like Affeldt, Bako, Patterson and others along with some releases... I just don't see WJ keeping Coffey and Majewski around next year. There will be spaces.

As far as Stewart, yeah he needs some work on some of his periherals. But those are things that he can work on at AA

medford
09-03-2008, 09:45 AM
my guess is that both Soto & Waring are in A+. One plays 3rd, another plays LF, 1b or DH. Probably mix & match both a bit b/w 3b and other spots. Never hurts to have minor leaguers learn multiple positions until you get a better grasp of who will best help the major league club, and what spot they'll do that in.

camisadelgolf
09-03-2008, 12:23 PM
Don't get me wrong--Soto is a hell of a talent. But he's a lot more raw then people give him credit for. He's very young and will need plenty of time in the minors before he's ready to for the Major Leagues.

First of all, he has seven walks in in 218 at-bats. That's almost Juan Francisco bad. Second of all, his fielding percentage improved to .910. That's significantly worse than Edwin Encarnacion's numbers the past few years.

Like I said, his bat is ready to advance, but with other, older third base prospects who have made more progress, I'm fine with letting Soto develop a bit in Dayton.

OnBaseMachine
09-03-2008, 12:42 PM
The Reds aren't enamored with Roenicke? Says who? Dusty and the Reds brass was raving over him in spring training.

RED VAN HOT
09-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Your list and the ensuing discussion highlights the difficulty in placing people deserving of a promotion. I continue to believe that the Reds must open up some spots by pruning the major league roster and making some tough decisions on some of the minor leaguers. I think there is harm in wasting a year of prime development time by keeping a player at a level that he has mastered, particularly if the player is 23-24. WJ seems to be more willing than WK to accelerate advancement. Stubbs seems to have responded well. I look for dramatic changes.

camisadelgolf
09-03-2008, 02:49 PM
Roenicke being on the 40 doesn't really mean anything, we are talking next year when there will be a lot of FA's off the 40 with guys like Affeldt, Bako, Patterson and others along with some releases... I just don't see WJ keeping Coffey and Majewski around next year. There will be spaces.

You mention that not being on the 40-man roster shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not quite convinced of that. First, there's the 25-man roster. Let's say the Reds sign only one free agent.

(25)
C Ryan Hanigan
1B Joey Votto
2B Brandon Phillips
3B Edwin Encarnacion
SS Alex Gonzalez
LF free agent
CF Chris Dickerson
RF Jay Bruce
C Wilkin Castillo
IF Jeff Keppinger
IF Adam Rosales
OF Chris Dickerson
OF Norris Hopper
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Micah Owings
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Jared Burton
RP Bill Bray
RP Matt Belisle
RP Gary Majewski
RP Todd Coffey
RP Bobby Livingston

Then there are the rest of the guys currently on the 40-man roster:
(9)
C Craig Tatum
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Danny Richar
SS Paul Janish
SP Homer Bailey
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Ramon Ramirez
RP Ty Pelland
RP Danny Herrera

That leaves only six spots to protect players from the rule five draft (or to prevent Gutierrez, Cumberland, Smit, and/or James from leaving as minor league free agents).

1B Tonys Gutierrez
2B Luis Bolivar
2B Drew M. Anderson
3B Mike Griffin
3B Eric Eymann
OF Shaun Cumberland
OF Sean Henry
OF Drew T. Anderson
SP Matt Maloney
SP Pedro Viola
SP Sam LeCure
SP Alex Smit
SP Justin Mallett
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Robert Manuel
RP Justin James
RP Ramon Geronimo
(There are many others who are eligible, but I think I listed the most likely to be selected, and even a few of them would be shocking choices.)

camisadelgolf
09-03-2008, 02:50 PM
The Reds aren't enamored with Roenicke? Says who? Dusty and the Reds brass was raving over him in spring training.

I read somewhere that the Reds were shopping Roenicke because they thought they had the same thing in Carlos Fisher.

OnBaseMachine
09-03-2008, 03:05 PM
I read somewhere that the Reds were shopping Roenicke because they thought they had the same thing in Carlos Fisher.

I'm pretty sure that was speculation from a poster on here. Besides, what's wrong with keeping them both and having a strong bullpen?

Orenda
09-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Freel is signed through 2009. So he would need to be added to the 25. Also you have Dickerson listed twice. I didn't realize the reds would have to expose that much talent to the rule 5 draft. I'd like to see Maloney, Lecure, Fisher, Viola, Cumberland, Manuel, and Geronimo protected.

mace
09-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Dickerson is listed twice on your 25-man.

fitz1
09-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Do you not think Chris Valaika and Todd Frazier are ready to make the jump to AAA?

SMcGavin
09-03-2008, 09:24 PM
I don't know if it's a given that Mesoraco starts at Sarasota. He only had a .710 OPS in Dayton this year, and he'll still be 20 years old for the first two months of next season. I might keep in Dayton for a couple months, let him finish up at Sarasota, and hopefully have him start in Chattanooga as a 21 year old in 2010. He'd still be on track to hit the bigs at a pretty young age for a catcher.

mth123
09-03-2008, 10:24 PM
You mention that not being on the 40-man roster shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not quite convinced of that. First, there's the 25-man roster. Let's say the Reds sign only one free agent.

(25)
C Ryan Hanigan
1B Joey Votto
2B Brandon Phillips
3B Edwin Encarnacion
SS Alex Gonzalez
LF free agent
CF Chris Dickerson
RF Jay Bruce
C Wilkin Castillo
IF Jeff Keppinger
IF Adam Rosales
OF Chris Dickerson
OF Norris Hopper
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Micah Owings
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Jared Burton
RP Bill Bray
RP Matt Belisle
RP Gary Majewski
RP Todd Coffey
RP Bobby Livingston

Then there are the rest of the guys currently on the 40-man roster:
(9)
C Craig Tatum
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Danny Richar
SS Paul Janish
SP Homer Bailey
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Ramon Ramirez
RP Ty Pelland
RP Danny Herrera

That leaves only six spots to protect players from the rule five draft (or to prevent Gutierrez, Cumberland, Smit, and/or James from leaving as minor league free agents).

1B Tonys Gutierrez
2B Luis Bolivar
2B Drew M. Anderson
3B Mike Griffin
3B Eric Eymann
OF Shaun Cumberland
OF Sean Henry
OF Drew T. Anderson
SP Matt Maloney
SP Pedro Viola
SP Sam LeCure
SP Alex Smit
SP Justin Mallett
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Robert Manuel
RP Justin James
RP Ramon Geronimo
(There are many others who are eligible, but I think I listed the most likely to be selected, and even a few of them would be shocking choices.)

Belisle and Coffey are probably going to be non-tendered and that LF you have listed will probably be in exchange for some one else on the roster. That would leave 9 spots for Gutierrez, Eymann, Cumberland, Henry, Maloney, Viola, Lecure, Fisher and Manuel. The Reds may also DFA Majewski and Livingston which would leave room for Smit and Geronimo (though they may be left off). It wouldn't surprise me to see Hopper and Pelland let go either. I also expect the Reds to make a couple quantity for quality deals that might make more room.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:15 AM
Freel is signed through 2009. So he would need to be added to the 25. Also you have Dickerson listed twice.


Dickerson is listed twice on your 25-man.

Thanks. I meant to have Ryan Freel listed instead of one of the Chris Dickersons.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:34 AM
I'm pretty sure that was speculation from a poster on here. Besides, what's wrong with keeping them both and having a strong bullpen?

There's nothing wrong with having both of them on the Major League roster next year. It's just that the 40-man roster will be crowded enough, and if Carlos Fisher is going to be on the 40-man roster anyway, why be in a hurry to add Roenicke to the 25-man roster?

Just to be more clear, I'm not opposed to adding Roenicke to the roster. It's just not necessary at this point, and although he has pitched almost 40 innings of successful baseball, I don't necessarily think he's ready to be an effective reliever for the Reds.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:40 AM
Do you not think Chris Valaika and Todd Frazier are ready to make the jump to AAA?

I think they could both handle AAA, but Valaika is blocked by Richar and Janish at the moment, and Frazier hasn't even played AA yet.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:43 AM
I don't know if it's a given that Mesoraco starts at Sarasota. He only had a .710 OPS in Dayton this year, and he'll still be 20 years old for the first two months of next season. I might keep in Dayton for a couple months, let him finish up at Sarasota, and hopefully have him start in Chattanooga as a 21 year old in 2010. He'd still be on track to hit the bigs at a pretty young age for a catcher.

You're right. It's certainly not a given that Mesoraco starts in Sarasota. But the Reds have some pretty decent catching depth in the low minors, and there's no one interesting in the system between Mesoraco and Craig Tatum, which is a pretty large gap, relatively speaking. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Mesoraco in Dayton again, but that taking away at-bats from Jordan Wideman, who seems to be advancing well, and giving lesser talents like Jason Bour and Jake Long more time behind the plate.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:54 AM
Belisle and Coffey are probably going to be non-tendered and that LF you have listed will probably be in exchange for some one else on the roster. That would leave 9 spots for Gutierrez, Eymann, Cumberland, Henry, Maloney, Viola, Lecure, Fisher and Manuel. The Reds may also DFA Majewski and Livingston which would leave room for Smit and Geronimo (though they may be left off). It wouldn't surprise me to see Hopper and Pelland let go either. I also expect the Reds to make a couple quantity for quality deals that might make more room.

Yeah, this is very good insight. You're right about those guys potentially being non-tendered/DFAed.

Personally, I would DFA Livingston (dime-a-dozen-type pitcher imo) and non-tender Coffey (just can't put it together for some reason), Majewski (could be over-priced after arbitration), and Belisle (could also be over-priced after arbitration).

That's ten spots free, eight of which I'd use to protect guys from the rule five draft.

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 02:56 AM
. . . and Dallas Buck I think will be pushed and be in AA.

I like this statement. If I did this all again, I'd put Buck in AA and let Webb show he's recovered in Sarasota.

JayBruceFan
09-04-2008, 03:00 AM
Daniel Guerrero needs to go

Ravin hasn't shown anything this season either. He has sub-par control and has shown that he is injury prone

Lotzkar will probably start in Dayton for the first couple months of next year due to his injury this season, his age and his lack of pro experience up to this point

Carson Kainer hasn't done anything to even warrant a sniff of AA

camisadelgolf
09-04-2008, 03:46 AM
Daniel Guerrero needs to go

Ravin hasn't shown anything this season either. He has sub-par control and has shown that he is injury prone

Lotzkar will probably start in Dayton for the first couple months of next year due to his injury this season, his age and his lack of pro experience up to this point

Carson Kainer hasn't done anything to even warrant a sniff of AA

Guerrero showed promise before this year. I don't know what's up with him, but I'd be fine with letting him go.

What keeps Josh Ravin around is his $200,000 signing bonus. The Reds will want to get their money's worth before they let him go. His velocity has jumped up the past couple years, so maybe his control issues come from getting adjusted.

Yeah, I'm surprised I listed Kyle Lotzkar at Sarasota. I would put him in Dayton, move Del Rosario to the rotation, and bump Otterness (24-year-old lefty) to the Sarasota bullpen.

And you're absolutely right about Carson Kainer--he hasn't earned a promotion. But given his age, seniority, and lack of outfielders at that level, I have a feeling he'll get the nod. He's not very good, but it's not like he's so bad that it's embarrassing. I imagine the Reds will consider a lot of minor league free agents for the Chattanooga outfield anyway, though.

Mario-Rijo
09-05-2008, 03:17 AM
You mention that not being on the 40-man roster shouldn't be a problem, but I'm not quite convinced of that. First, there's the 25-man roster. Let's say the Reds sign only one free agent.

(25)
C Ryan Hanigan
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Brandon Phillips
3B Edwin Encarnacion
SS Alex Gonzalez
LF Joey Votto
CF Chris Dickerson
RF Jay Bruce

C Bako or a FA Catcher w/ exp.
IF Jeff Keppinger
IF Jerry Hairston Jr.
UT Ryan Freel
OF Shaun Cumberland

SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Micah Owings

RP Francisco Cordero
RP Jared Burton
RP Bill Bray
RP Jeremy Affeldt
RP Mike Lincoln
RP David Weathers
RP Nick Masset

Then there are the rest of the guys currently on the 40-man roster:
(9)
C Craig Tatum
C Wilkin Castillo
2B Danny Richar
SS Paul Janish
IF Adam Rosales
SP Homer Bailey
SP Daryl Thompson
RP Ramon Ramirez
RP Danny Herrera

Plus these 5 from your previous list who I think stick around.

OF Sean Henry
SP Matt Maloney
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Robert Manuel
SP Sam Lecure

With 1 spot left at this point and these remaining names with any shred of a chance to get the spot. Probably coming down to Smit and Geronimo

1B Tonys Gutierrez
RP Pedro Viola
SP Alex Smit
RP Ramon Geronimo

I could see something like this taking place. Be it a bit far fetched (Alonso) but with some logic to it. My best guess is that there is some definite trading on the horizon for a corner OF perhaps one the significance of a Matt Holliday to free up 2-3 spots on the 40 allowing Yonder to stay down for next season.

How about this trade for Holliday just because I thought of one just as I wrote this. Is there enough potential shine left on these guys to obtain 1 year of Holliday with the potential to sign a LTC? Lot of talent going out with high ceilings but with considerable question marks. IMO it clears up some issues accross the board, but not sure it's enough to get him and equally not sure it's not.

Homer Bailey
Drew Stubbs
Tyler Pelland
Juan Francisco

camisadelgolf
09-05-2008, 04:11 AM
How about this trade for Holliday just because I thought of one just as I wrote this. Is there enough potential shine left on these guys to obtain 1 year of Holliday with the potential to sign a LTC? Lot of talent going out with high ceilings but with considerable question marks. IMO it clears up some issues accross the board, but not sure it's enough to get him and equally not sure it's not.

Homer Bailey
Drew Stubbs
Tyler Pelland
Juan Francisco

That's certainly an offer they'd have to listen to. We're talking about four different guys who have been considered top-ten prospects in the organization at different times. The thing is, the Rockies feel like they're not far off from winning the NL West (and they're not), so I think they would be looking to acquire more established players, particularly starting pitchers.

Mario-Rijo
09-05-2008, 04:22 PM
That's certainly an offer they'd have to listen to. We're talking about four different guys who have been considered top-ten prospects in the organization at different times. The thing is, the Rockies feel like they're not far off from winning the NL West (and they're not), so I think they would be looking to acquire more established players, particularly starting pitchers.

Thing is I'm not sure they can do a deal better than this currently for a guy who is in the final year of his contract. Although I can see the NYY's coming after him for a package headed by Hughes and maybe Nady with some filler. The good thing about our deal is it's alot more cost effective for the Rox with 3 of the 4 afore mentioned players never having been in the bigs yet. But w/ 3 of them close enough to potentially contribute very soon.

redsof72
09-07-2008, 12:28 AM
Speaking only of players I have seen this season: Tough to say on Soto. Hard for me to see them moving either Soto or Waring to left field. Neither has the speed for the outfield. I would guess they will either move Waring to first base or start Soto in Dayton. I would expect Mesoraco to start in Dayton. Bour can handle it in Sarasota. Lotzkar would start in Dayton almost certainly. If Jamie Arneson is not released, I would hope he would be in the bullpen. The problem with Arneson and Ravin this season in Dayton, aside from being awful, were that they killed the relief corps because they were constantly out of the game in the third or fourth inning every time out. If they don't have better options for the Dayton rotation than Arneson and Ravin, something is seriously wrong. I would expect Partch in the Dayton rotation. They like his fastball that tops out at 94.

camisadelgolf
09-07-2008, 02:49 PM
Speaking only of players I have seen this season: Tough to say on Soto. Hard for me to see them moving either Soto or Waring to left field. Neither has the speed for the outfield. I would guess they will either move Waring to first base or start Soto in Dayton. I would expect Mesoraco to start in Dayton. Bour can handle it in Sarasota. Lotzkar would start in Dayton almost certainly. If Jamie Arneson is not released, I would hope he would be in the bullpen. The problem with Arneson and Ravin this season in Dayton, aside from being awful, were that they killed the relief corps because they were constantly out of the game in the third or fourth inning every time out. If they don't have better options for the Dayton rotation than Arneson and Ravin, something is seriously wrong. I would expect Partch in the Dayton rotation. They like his fastball that tops out at 94.

I can't think of a good reason to move Soto off of third base (unless someone thinks he'll always be too error prone). Brandon Waring was just named the best defensive third baseman in the MWL, so I don't think it makes sense to move him off the position either. If you did, though, it would have to be to first base. It would mean taking at-bats away from Yonder Alonso or Logan Parker, though.

I could see Jamie Arneson being released, but I think he'll stay. The same goes for Josh Ravin. The reason they throw so many innings is because they have so much potential. You're absolutely right about Lotzkar repeating Dayton, though. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

JayBruceFan
09-08-2008, 01:41 AM
Am I the only one that thinks Brandon Waring should start 2009 in back in Dayton?

He struck out way too much this year and doesn't show much pitch recognition from what I've seen from him.

And don't let the 20 HR's fool you, he struggled to get there.

Sure he has decent power but that's about all he has. He has below average to almost no speed at all either

Scrap Irony
09-08-2008, 10:37 AM
I'd move Soto to AA to challenge him. Of course, I'd also move Francisco to catcher (or, if he's unwilling and/or defensively challenged, RF). Soto is, IMO, the best prospect in the Cincinnati pipeline by a wide, wide margin.

He's hit well and he's young for his league. Not only that, he's also hitting with power. The walks will come as the rest of the league begins to fear him.

mace
09-08-2008, 11:08 AM
I'd move Soto to AA to challenge him. Of course, I'd also move Francisco to catcher (or, if he's unwilling and/or defensively challenged, RF).



I like your out-of-the-box thinking here, and by all accounts Francisco has the arm to be a catcher. I also like the concept of placing good athletes at that position. But I'm a little curious as to why you've singled out Francisco for this switch, in light of the fact that he was named the best defensive 3B in the FSL.

11larkin11
09-09-2008, 01:22 AM
I'd move Soto to AA to challenge him. Of course, I'd also move Francisco to catcher (or, if he's unwilling and/or defensively challenged, RF). Soto is, IMO, the best prospect in the Cincinnati pipeline by a wide, wide margin.
He's hit well and he's young for his league. Not only that, he's also hitting with power. The walks will come as the rest of the league begins to fear him.

I like Soto and all, but I still would have him behind Alonso, Frazier, and Stubbs. Possibly Lotzkar as well.

Scrap Irony
09-09-2008, 11:02 AM
Alonso is a 1B. For a 1B, he's not bad, but there are questions about his power with a wooden bat. Plus, he's got no speed and a decent glove only. Frazier apparently has to be a corner player and his bat, while good, is not great. Stubbs is, at his best, Mike Cameron-Lite. Lotskar is interesting, but hasn't done what Soto has.

None of this group has.

Soto, at 19, just finished the best statistical season in the Red pipeline. (Possible exception to Alex Bucholz in the launching pad that is Billings.) Soto also plays a passable 3B, or will, when he's a bit older. He shows plus-plus power (his EXB hit rate is exceptional) and his contact rate is really, really good. All of these point to the fact that he should dominate as he progresses.

Did I mention that he's 19?

If he continues at this rate, he's in the majors to stay at 21. Only rarely do 21 year-old major leaguers turn out to be less than All Star talent.

I don't know if any of the other prospects are at that level. At this point, Alonso, Frazier, and Stubbs are too old and Lotskar has a lot of work to do.

ChatterRed
09-10-2008, 11:45 PM
I think Soto jumps ahead of Waring, based on Waring's strikeout ratio.

ChatterRed
09-10-2008, 11:53 PM
Am I the only one that thinks Brandon Waring should start 2009 in back in Dayton?

He struck out way too much this year and doesn't show much pitch recognition from what I've seen from him.

And don't let the 20 HR's fool you, he struggled to get there.

Sure he has decent power but that's about all he has. He has below average to almost no speed at all either

I agree.

Kc61
09-11-2008, 10:38 AM
If he continues at this rate, he's in the majors to stay at 21. Only rarely do 21 year-old major leaguers turn out to be less than All Star talent.

I don't know if any of the other prospects are at that level. At this point, Alonso, Frazier, and Stubbs are too old and Lotskar has a lot of work to do.

Where will Soto play at age 21? Will he be a major league caliber defender at third? Is another postion in his future? It's not just about offensive stats.

camisadelgolf
09-14-2008, 05:03 AM
I think Soto jumps ahead of Waring, based on Waring's strikeout ratio.

Soto strikes out a lot, too. I don't think strikeout ratio is enough of a reason to have a successful 20-year-old jumping over a successful 23-year-old, drafted in the same year.

Mario-Rijo
09-16-2008, 05:39 AM
Soto strikes out a lot, too. I don't think strikeout ratio is enough of a reason to have a successful 20-year-old jumping over a successful 23-year-old, drafted in the same year.

Why not, it's not as if there are 3 levels between them.

JayBruceFan
09-18-2008, 04:08 PM
If Soto is better than Waring, then get Soto ahead of Waring and let him develop.

No point in giving a sub-par player more chances and opportunity just because he is older.

Let Soto get time now and not screw him around and waste his time waiting for Waring to develop into something decent (Which I doubt will ever happen IMO)