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cincrazy
09-07-2008, 10:40 PM
So, I have something going on in my life that I'm just not to sure about. I really don't want to talk to my really good friends about it, because they're biased IMO, so I thought I'd come here, where I have friends, yet friends that will be honest with me, one way or another.

I'm 23 years old. Recently out of college with a journalism degree, but going back for more schooling. I've fallen for a girl.... but she has 2 kids, a 2 year old little boy, and an infant recently born.

I fell for her HARD last year, and eventually accepted the fact that she had a little boy, and actually came to be excited about that. But by the time I was ready to start anything, she moved on and was with another guy... and got pregnant again. Well, she dumped this guy before she knew she was pregnant, because she wanted to be with me. But when that happened, I was obviously hurt, and disappointed she'd be so stupid, to be honest with you. It happened once, bad enough. But twice?

But I can't explain why I still feel something for her. I've met her family, and they're AMAZING, which makes it hard to understand how this all happened. I believe she shouldn't be condemned for past mistakes, and I'd like to give it a go with her. She's funny, pretty, a great person, she's just screwed up.

But I know if I get with her, and it works, I can be great for her, and more importantly great for her little kids.

Is this too risky? I'm not going to date her tomorrow, but we both agreed to take things slow, patch things up a bit, and go from there. Is it worth the trouble? Should I run the other way? Or should I try so hard to make it work with a girl I care so much about?

Thanks for listening :)

Degenerate39
09-07-2008, 11:34 PM
This is a tough one. Personally I wouldn't want to take care of someone else's kids but that's just me. Then again if you like her that much why not go for it? If it doesn't work out between you two it's not like you have to get divorced or anything. If I were to tell you anything I'd tell you go with your feelings.

Edskin
09-07-2008, 11:57 PM
She's funny, pretty, a great person, she's just screwed up.




I think there's a part of everyone that feels "go for it if you truly have feelings for her." I think that's a natural reaction.

But the above quoted sentence troubles me. If you have already accepted the fact that she's "screwed up," part of the allure for you (consciously or not) may be in trying to "fix" her.

Sometimes, "screwed up" people are more interesting in a way-- it creates a sort of relationship drama that kind of excites people. But in the end, I think those situations rarely have happy endings.

Maybe someday, when she fixes HERSELF and isn't so "screwed up" anymore, things could work out between you. But the timing doesn't sound right here.

And that's my view...having never met you...or her.....and having only read about this in the past 3 and a half minutes :)

vaticanplum
09-08-2008, 12:02 AM
Nothing will ever work here if you remotely think that she has committed "mistakes" which could be "condemned". I know you said that in the context of "she shouldn't be..." but it's still very telling. There is part of you somewhere that sounds like it's holding her past against her. If that is the case, it will be incredibly difficult to have a solid relationship.

I know that people will come along here and say that the odds are stacked against you here, and they have a point. But if we all determined our future relationships based on past mistakes (or what have you), none of us would be in good relationships. At all. Don't even get me started on what the world would be like if all single women with children were deemed undatable. A lot of people do deem them so...and so it is a rare and good man who can step up to the plate there.

You would likely have more responsiblity and less party hardy fun in this relationship than you might in a lot of others at your age. But if you truly, truly have feelings for this girl, then it may be worth taking heed of those reponsibilities and proceeding. Love is not all that common, you know. If you respect it, then I kind of think you're sort of obligated to go for it when you recognize it or even the possibility of it. Respect her past and present, and tread carefully enough to respect the other people in the relationship (because her two kids are part of it). If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

A cousin of mine -- a rollicking good-time kind of guy in his 20s -- had a similar situation, albeit at an older age than you. He dated a nice, sweet, never-married and childless girl for about eight years but could never bring himself to marry her. Finally they split over his inability to commit, and he ended up getting together with a girl whom he had always had half an eye on (he admits in retrospect). She was something of a party girl, married once, with two children (one -- whom she had very young -- from her shotgun marriage and one from another long-term relationship). She wasn't "screwed up" and hadn't really made poorer decisions than a lot of us do; she had just had a lot of hard breaks really. Within a couple of years they were married. They now have two more children and a rock-solid marriage. They love each other for who they are and are grateful for their pasts to have brought them where they are -- there are no "mistakes" to be had. Now, that may be rare and it is my belief that a great deal of all of this is, as always, timing, but the point is that there are no hard and fast rules about these things. People love who they love, and people make work and mess up what they want to.

Of course, this is very easy advice for a third party to give :) Best of luck to you.

durl
09-08-2008, 12:03 AM
My gut tells me to advise you to hold off on this one, at least for awhile.

From the limited info here, she has trouble with stable relationships. (I can't help but assume that the 2 children have 2 different fathers.) It's not a matter of condemning her for past mistakes, it's a question of if she is able to not make the same mistakes again. Perhaps it could work out but there's no way I'd recommend jumping in with both feet right away. If she's "screwed up," that's not a good foundation for any relationship. Be her friend first, then possibly become more.

Sometimes guys like to be the knight on a white horse, riding in to save the damsel in distress (along with her 2 kids?) but that shouldn't be the main reason you're involved. And sometimes the damsels don't want to be saved. Or perhaps they like having the knight around to save them when they continue to put themselves into bad situations.

I'm not saying she's setting you up for a heartbreak (although I've seen it happen to other guys) but rather that there is a history of poor choices on her part. I think you should wait and see if she shows more stability.

Michael Young
09-08-2008, 12:07 AM
are u shoplifting the pootie?

cincrazy
09-08-2008, 12:15 AM
Completely poor choices of words on my part... I meant to say she has screwed up, as in past decisions. She's "made mistakes" is how I should have termed it. I wasn't trying to say that she's screwed up mentally :)

But I appreciate all of the advice. It's a lot to think about.

And vaticanplum, many of your thoughts hit the nail on the head

Jpup
09-08-2008, 12:16 AM
If you don't care to raise 2 other men's kids, then go for it.

cincrazy
09-08-2008, 12:18 AM
If you don't care to raise 2 other men's kids, then go for it.

I really don't... and I guess I'm different than most guy's my age. It's not a matter of riding in on the white horse. I know I'm not some kind of heroic figure, and get no pleasure in trying to be one. But I think they deserve a good man in their life eventually, and if it works out between me and their mother, then why not me?

My grandpa raised my uncle, who wasn't his biological his son. My best friend was raised by a man that wasn't his biological father. I guess that's why I'm not as put back as some guys would be by the thought of 2 children being involved.

Jpup
09-08-2008, 12:25 AM
I really don't... and I guess I'm different than most guy's my age. It's not a matter of riding in on the white horse. I know I'm not some kind of heroic figure, and get no pleasure in trying to be one. But I think they deserve a good man in their life eventually, and if it works out between me and their mother, then why not me?

My grandpa raised my uncle, who wasn't his biological his son. My best friend was raised by a man that wasn't his biological father. I guess that's why I'm not as put back as some guys would be by the thought of 2 children being involved.

You are 23, wait 5 years and your life will be totally different than it is right now. That's a lot to take on for someone 23. I'm 28 and I can't imagine having 2 or 3 kids. I have one coming in March and I'm nervous about that. I am excited, but nervous.

I would wait about a year and see if you feel the same way. Nothing is wrong with being engaged with intent, but I would take it kind of slow and see how things went. Don't move in with her either.

Jpup
09-08-2008, 12:27 AM
I just reread your post. You didn't say anything about marriage. :cool: Yeah, I would date her. Just don't let yourself become daddy to those kids until you are sure. Again, don't move in with her.

M2
09-08-2008, 01:05 AM
There's no harm in dating, just make sure you don't fall into the trap of forming an instant family. What I mean is you can be nutty about a woman without kids and generally not feel the immediate need to get married. People allow themselves to live in that moment.

I've seen it happen when there's a kid or kids involved where the couple plunges into full-blown family status before they really got to know each other (or, more importantly, what they're like together after the initial endorphin rush is over). Unmarried with two kids, I'm going to guess she's a bit impulsive. Impulsive and romantic are two fine traits, but make sure they don't run roughshod over all else.

You don't really know how well-prepared you are for the responsibilities she's got. I can tell you from experience that time works differently with two kids, it must planned and it is not yours. And it sounds like she may not have had much time, assuming she's roughly your age, to figure herself out.

Most importantly, if it gets physical, make sure you've got birth control covered.

camisadelgolf
09-08-2008, 03:02 AM
I have a lot to say about this, but the first thing I want to know is how long she has been with the other guy. If the thing with the other guy is an on-again off-again relationship that has been happening for at least the past couple years, I think you have to let this one go. If there were together for six months and broke up just a couple days ago, no matter what she says, I think you have to give her time and make the decision later.

Personally, I think giving time between relationships is absolutely vital when it comes to the next relationship having a good shot of working out.

cincrazy
09-08-2008, 06:31 AM
I appreciate all of the help guys. There's no "physical" relationship between the two of us. With her having 2 kids, I know better than that :).

It's certainly something that we're taking slow. We've both agreed that if anything is to come of it, it will be a day by day, step by step thing. I told her how I felt, and she told me that she could see something possibly down the road. But she'd want to take it slow, get to know me better, have me get to know her family better, and vice versa. And I think all of that is a good idea.

It's not something that will be jumped into right away, more of a feeling out process. I'm not really sure where the road will take the two of us, but I think I do want to at least continue to talk to her and get to know her better, and not rule anything out for the future.

Ltlabner
09-08-2008, 08:17 AM
I'm not going to date her tomorrow, but we both agreed to take things slow, patch things up a bit, and go from there.

Does taking it slow mean it will be four months before she's pregnant rather than three?

There's no "shame" in having two children out-of wedlock. Even from different fathers. I don't agree with it, and it obviously isn't ideal, but she shouldn't be shuned from society and treated like she has the plauge.

That said, however, it does show that she is capabile of making some horrendously bad decisions.

You are obviously very infatuated with her. Men who are infatuated with a woman, and then suddenly have a chance with her are capible of making some horrendously bad decisions. Hormones and emotions mixed with the rush of romance are not a solid platform for rational decision making.

23 year old men with no real life experience (who are infatuated with a lady) are capabile of making some horrendously bad decisions.

She is obviously fertile.

The track record of bad decisions, coupled with the likelyhood of future bad decisions, coupled with the rush and excitement of what "could be" coupled with a fertile woman?

Run.

If anything, I'd stay clear for 6 months and see what she does. If she suddenly ends up with yet another guy you have your answer. If she buckles down and goes about raising her two children, living her life, bettering herself, etc then maybe it's time to test the waters.

cincrazy
09-08-2008, 09:27 AM
Does taking it slow mean it will be four months before she's pregnant rather than three?

There's no "shame" in having two children out-of wedlock. Even from different fathers. I don't agree with it, and it obviously isn't ideal, but she shouldn't be shuned from society and treated like she has the plauge.

That said, however, it does show that she is capabile of making some horrendously bad decisions.

You are obviously very infatuated with her. Men who are infatuated with a woman, and then suddenly have a chance with her are capible of making some horrendously bad decisions. Hormones and emotions mixed with the rush of romance are not a solid platform for rational decision making.

23 year old men with no real life experience (who are infatuated with a lady) are capabile of making some horrendously bad decisions.

She is obviously fertile.

The track record of bad decisions, coupled with the likelyhood of future bad decisions, coupled with the rush and excitement of what "could be" coupled with a fertile woman?

Run.

If anything, I'd stay clear for 6 months and see what she does. If she suddenly ends up with yet another guy you have your answer. If she buckles down and goes about raising her two children, living her life, bettering herself, etc then maybe it's time to test the waters.

I understand your concerns... completely. But let me assure you, her getting pregnant again if we dated would be the absolute LAST thing to happen, lol. Trust me on that one :)

But I like your idea. It wouldn't hurt to stand back and see what she does. Whether she goes to another guy, or buckles down and raises her kids

Roy Tucker
09-08-2008, 09:50 AM
All good stuff said in here so I won't repeat it.

The only thing I'll say is that you have to honest with yourself. Some people are perfectly fine with getting an "instant family" while others want their own biological children to start off a blank family slate. You need to make sure you are not harboring any hidden resentment about her children not being yours.

Along those lines, dating a woman with 2 children is going to be complicated. If you are looking for a care-free, breezy relationship, this ain't gonna be it. There are other fathers, child care, and lots of every-day life with children things to consider. Impulsive things are really hard to pull off.

You need to be brutally honest with yourself about these questions. I was one of those guys who wouldn't date women with children. I was way too irresponsible and knew myself better than to expose a woman with big-time child commitments to my sometimes-selfish and erratic behavior. I did a lot of stupid things, but shoplifting the pootie was not one of them.

Degenerate39
09-08-2008, 11:31 AM
are u shoplifting the pootie?

If only we could give rep

klw
09-08-2008, 12:01 PM
Go rent the movie "About a Boy"

Ltlabner
09-08-2008, 12:26 PM
Thinking I was clever and hip I hit Mrs LtLabner with the 'shoplifting the pootie' line.

She looked at me oddly and said 'I thought you had never seen Jerry McGuire'.

I used to be cool.

PedroBourbon
09-08-2008, 05:02 PM
Cincrazy,

One of my best friend's father used to always say to him "I've been (fill in your age here) you haven't been (the father's age.)"

It always sticks in my head and I now use it on my 2 stepson's. Regardless, I say this as someone a little older than you who is married to someone who had two small children when we got married. I was 28 at the time and out of school for a couple of years. You are 23 going back to school. I really think this situation could potentially be a disaster for all of you guys. Your girl has made some bad decisions it sounds like in her past and I'm not here to point a finger and say that's wrong. I would assume she is around your age and having 2 kids with one on the way is a full time job in itself for her alone. You made it clear that you weren't entertaining marriage and that's reassuring and tells me you haven't fallen off the deep end. I honestly would tell you to run away from this potentially very bad scenario. I do agree with the majority of comments that say take your time, limit your time together, and I would certainly add don't cohabitate. To answer a couple of your questions, yes this is too risky and No it's not worth the trouble, IMO.

Please don't think I'm coming down hard on you, I just want to give you an opinion from someone who was in a somewhat similiar situation at a similiar time in my life. I think that's what you wanted, honest opinions. There are other fish in the sea my man, you will get over her. It happens to all of us. Best of luck in whatever manner this turns out. Feel free to PM me if you have any ?'s

BuckeyeRed27
09-09-2008, 11:20 AM
This has run written all over it. I mean I understand you like her and all, but you aren't in a place to step in this situation.
You need to focus on school and getting your life started and this isn't going to help that at all and could potentially blow it all up.

flyer85
09-09-2008, 11:42 AM
You didn't say anything about marriage. :cool: Yeah, I would date her. Just don't let yourself become daddy to those kids until you are sure. Again, don't move in with her.and don't be adding to the list of kiddies.

Redlegs23
09-09-2008, 06:22 PM
I agree 100% with what buckeyered said. Focus on getting through school and start your own life. You're 23 years old, don't grow up any faster than you have to.

Jpup
09-10-2008, 01:12 AM
I agree 100% with what buckeyered said. Focus on getting through school and start your own life. You're 23 years old, don't grow up any faster than you have to.

yeah, being an adult pretty much stinks. :)

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 09:46 AM
Don't listen to any of these people.

When I was 19 I met a girl that I fell completely and totally in love with, but she was seeing somebody at the time. She had strong feelings for me as well, but things were complicated, so we stayed friends for a long time, but the tension never really subsided. 4 years later, it fell into place that we were both single at the same time so we started dating.

Despite my strong feelings, I never really dove into the relationship like I could have. I listened to a bunch of older people who were telling me to "be young, don't get locked in with one girl, there's too much you should be doing for yourself, etc." I thought they were older and wiser and knew what was best for me.

So I always kept her at a certain distance, not wanting my own feelings to carry me "in over my head." Eventually the relationship dissolved and she found somebody else, presumably somebody who was willing to be more devoted than I was.

From there, our lives took different paths. I lost contact with that girl about two years ago and we live in different states. I'm 29 years old today and haven't been "infatuated" with her for years. I've have had several fairly serious relationships since then, and to this day, I know for a fact that none of the girls I've been with were as right for me as that one girl years ago. That's a completely rational statement made based on what I know about myself, who I was, who I am, who she was, and who she became.

Listening to all those old farts was the biggest mistake I ever made and I've made some doosies. I'm still single, and at this point, I don't really see that changing. I had my chance and blew it. I'm fine with that. Everybody does things in their life they regret. The best you can hope for is to learn from it and I've done that.

But maybe if I'd have approached my relationship with that girl differently years ago, things would be different. Maybe it would have worked out, maybe not. Who knows? The one thing I do know is that I should have pursued it with all the vigor my emotions were telling me to.

You have to follow your heart in this life, not the advice of old men who are trying to live vicariously through you. There's still going to be struggles, life is all about struggle, there's no way around it. There's still going to be "mistakes." But there won't be regrets.

I've done things in my life that society calls "mistakes," but I don't regret them. I was doing what I felt was right. The real mistakes, the one's that become regret, always happen when you follow your heart half-way. Nobody knows what's best for you better than you do. You just have to trust that.

It sounds to me like you like this girl and want to be with her. If that's true, then go for it. It might change your life. It might change your life in a way that a lot of other people say is for the worse. But they don't really know what's better or worse for anybody but themselves.

The Baumer
09-10-2008, 10:01 AM
Presidente, did your long lost love have 2 kids at 19?

I don't think anyone is telling the original poster that love is wrong and he should never date anyone seriously until he is 45. People are warning him that certain decisions (i.e. becoming sexually active with a young girl who has a history of having babies) have life long consequences that a puppy eyed 23 year old might not yet understand.

Or maybe you are against listening to advice in general, which is fine I suppose. But I don't think this situation warrants a "forget the old folks' advice, trust your own heart" response.

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 10:21 AM
Presidente, did your long lost love have 2 kids at 19?

I don't think anyone is telling the original poster that love is wrong and he should never date anyone seriously until he is 45. People are warning him that certain decisions (i.e. becoming sexually active with a young girl who has a history of having babies) have life long consequences that a puppy eyed 23 year old might not yet understand.


What I'm saying is that certain decisions (i.e. not pursing something you have strong feelings about) can also have life-long consequences that a puppy eyed 23 year old might not understand.

None of us know the future. He's not asking if he should kill somebody. He's asking if he should date somebody that he has feelings for.

The responses are typical. Wait! Be cautious! Older people ALWAYS tell younger people that. It's like an automated response. Being responsible for a child at a young age may be tough, but so is missing the opportunity to be with somebody who's right for you. He's 23, not 16.

I'm giving him an opposite perspective that is honest and based on my experience. I'm telling him that caution, reason and patience aren't always best, sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horn. If you wait until you have life all figured out before you make a move you'll never do anything. My experience is proof of that and my experience is all I have to give.

bucksfan2
09-10-2008, 10:29 AM
Im 26 and recently married so I am at a similar age to cincrazy. I started to date my current wife during the last quarter of college. I didn't want to start a relationship because I didn't know where I or she would be in a few months. Needless to say it has worked out pretty well for me.

I would say follow your heart but be cautious. If you get serious with this girl you life will most probably change. The kids should be her first priority and they will become your first priority. Your free time will become those kids. You also will have to deal with two different men with these kids. Not saying that is a good or bad thing but it will be there. Your commitment won't be just to a girl, but rather a family. It is a lot to take on at 23 years of age. Ultimately decide its a decision that you will need to make based upon what is right for you.

MWM
09-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Nah, caution, reason, and patience are pretty much always best. There's no downside. People aren't saying forget about her, just to be cautious given her family situation and age. I don't see how that can be bad advice. Heck, the girl he's referring to would be wise to listen to the "caution, reason, and petience" advice. But jumping in without those three things could lead to disaster without any real upside. It it's right, then the caution and patient approach will still produce a good result.

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 10:42 AM
Nah, caution, reason, and patience are pretty much always best. There's no downside. People aren't saying forget about her, just to be cautious given her family situation and age. I don't see how that can be bad advice. Heck, the girl he's referring to would be wise to listen to the "caution, reason, and petience" advice. But jumping in without those three things could lead to disaster without any real upside. It it's right, then the caution and patient approach will still produce a good result.

For me, caution, reason and patience had a real downside. Anything can be taken to extremes and life doesn't always give you second chances.

My uncle's favorite saying was "All things in moderation...including moderation!" I always liked that.

My best friend got married at 23. Had his first kid at 25. Everybody told him he was rushing into things but he didn't listen. It became the stabalizing force he needed in his life. He went back to school, got a great job, and has a relatively wonderful life.

It's a good thing he didn't listen to everybody else. He could be like me, sitting in a one-bedroom apartment, typing to strangers on the internet and wondering about the one that got away.

Jpup
09-10-2008, 11:47 AM
For me, caution, reason and patience had a real downside. Anything can be taken to extremes and life doesn't always give you second chances.

My uncle's favorite saying was "All things in moderation...including moderation!" I always liked that.

My best friend got married at 23. Had his first kid at 25. Everybody told him he was rushing into things but he didn't listen. It became the stabalizing force he needed in his life. He went back to school, got a great job, and has a relatively wonderful life.

It's a good thing he didn't listen to everybody else. He could be like me, sitting in a one-bedroom apartment, typing to strangers on the internet and wondering about the one that got away.

yeah and you could pick yourself up and make the decision that you are not going to be miserable anymore. Until you decide you are going to be happy and live the life that was intended for you, you will be sitting there in that apartment, by yourself.

I know, I was there. Now I have a brand new house, a great job, and I'm getting married in 10 days. Happiness is a choice, not something you just depend on someone else to make you. If you are waiting on someone else to make you happy, you are in for a long wait.

cincrazy
09-10-2008, 11:53 AM
I really appreciate all of the opinions and thoughts. Whether you think I should run the other way, be patient and see where it goes, or that I should go for it immediately, you all have valid points and concerns, so thank you.

Roy Tucker
09-10-2008, 12:15 PM
My uncle's favorite saying was "All things in moderation...including moderation!" I always liked that.



Yep, right up there with "the only constant is change" and "the only certainty is that nothing is certain".

My favorite moderation quote is Robert Heinlein's “Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.” I've leaned more that way than moderation.

I think everyone can come up with "what if's" in their lives. Back in the day, I thought I had found the perfect woman. Against all advice and all odds, I plunged forward, took a chance ... and got burned beyond all recognition by it. Took me a couple years to get over it.

Us old farts play the odds. The odds of a young marriage having long-term potential are low. Probably 2 people out of 5 people that I know that got married early have had their marriages succeed. And even then, there were a lot of bumps and bruises. Personally, I was married at 21 and divorced at 25 (and remarried at 32).

Us old farts see all that happen and go :nono: when asked by a 20 yr. old if they should commit. There is a reason why they can build those big casinos in Las Vegas. The odds.

I personally think you need to wait till you're at least 25 to get married. But YMMV, no situation is the same, and you never know.

But Jpup said it best... you can't change the past and the only thing that matters is your future. Get busy at it.

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 12:20 PM
yeah and you could pick yourself up and make the decision that you are not going to be miserable anymore. Until you decide you are going to be happy and live the life that was intended for you, you will be sitting there in that apartment, by yourself.

I know, I was there. Now I have a brand new house, a great job, and I'm getting married in 10 days. Happiness is a choice, not something you just depend on someone else to make you. If you are waiting on someone else to make you happy, you are in for a long wait.

I'm not miserable. I've made the best of the situation. I used my freedom to start my own business and am quite successful with it. I'm not wollowing in self-deprication. I live a pro-active life. I'm happier now than I've been in years, and the reason why is because I learned to throw out all the pitiful conventions that society heaps on us, and live my life for myself, and by my own understanding and intuition.

Still, I know what mistakes I made in the past, and don't deny them. I don't run from my regrets. And as a rule, the source of my mistakes comes from letting other people decide what was written in my heart to do.

Jpup
09-10-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm not miserable. I've made the best of the situation. I used my freedom to start my own business and am quite successful with it. I'm not wollowing in self-deprication. I live a pro-active life. I'm happier now than I've been in years, and the reason why is because I learned to throw out all the pitiful conventions that society heaps on us, and live my life for myself, and by my own understanding and intuition.

Still, I know what mistakes I made in the past, and don't deny them. I don't run from my regrets. And as a rule, the source of my mistakes comes from letting other people decide what was written in my heart to do.

fair enough.

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 12:41 PM
nm

M2
09-10-2008, 02:26 PM
If you wait until you have life all figured out before you make a move you'll never do anything.

I agree with that. Yet you can also be head-over-in-heels in love and not feel the immediate need to bring paperwork into the equation. If cincrazy wants to date this woman (and she's of a like mind), then go for it. Dating is awesome.

But there's a lot to chew on when you get involved in a relationship like this. Ultimately he's going to need to make the call on whether he's digested everything.

FWIW, it sounds like other people weren't the main thing holding you back in the story you told. It sounds like you weren't sure of yourself or the relationship and that what other people said echoed things you were saying to yourself. If that's the case then it might have been a case of potentially right person, but at the wrong time. Maybe you weren't ready the way you might be now.


my current wife

Just a side piece of advice, never say those words in front of your wife. I haven't, but I've seen guys do it and it's a disaster every time.

RFS62
09-10-2008, 02:33 PM
A wise man learns from his mistakes.

A very wise man learns from other people's mistakes.

RichRed
09-10-2008, 02:41 PM
Just a side piece of advice, never say those words in front of your wife. I haven't, but I've seen guys do it and it's a disaster every time.

Yep, that's just one step above "my future ex-wife," which is what she might be if you call her your "current" wife.

kpresidente
09-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Us old farts play the odds.

Except when it comes to sabermetrics. :D

Roy Tucker
09-10-2008, 03:27 PM
Just a side piece of advice, never say those words in front of your wife. I haven't, but I've seen guys do it and it's a disaster every time.



I once, in a moment of foolish candor, made the mistake mentioning in a conversation with my wife "you know, if this marriage doesn't work, I don't think I'll get married again".

I waxed on eloquently for a while. Soon, I noticed the look I was getting from my wife was somewhere between icy glare and death row arctic "just keep digging, fool".

bucksfan2
09-10-2008, 03:50 PM
Just a side piece of advice, never say those words in front of your wife. I haven't, but I've seen guys do it and it's a disaster every time.

I didn't even realize I did that.

Tony Cloninger
09-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Is it possible....in the last 15 years to even find a woman over 21-22 years of age that does not have a tattoo, piercings or kids?

Making little kids is a lot easier than caring for them and being there for them 24-7....then dealing with the pre-teen and then teenage years.

Follow your heart but don't leave your common sense behind.

Chip R
09-10-2008, 04:12 PM
Yep, that's just one step above "my future ex-wife," which is what she might be if you call her your "current" wife.


Also one step above "my future late wife." :eek:

Ltlabner
09-10-2008, 04:51 PM
The responses are typical. Wait! Be cautious! Older people ALWAYS tell younger people that. It's like an automated response. Being responsible for a child at a young age may be tough, but so is missing the opportunity to be with somebody who's right for you. He's 23, not 16.

Which might explain why younger people make a lot of dumbass decisions. Not that older people don't make dumb decisions too, but you just don't have enough experience at age 23 to realize how much you really don't know. Many times, that lack of experience leads to stupid choices.

It's that experience, often learned from making the same dumb choices, that usually tells us to slow down and think about what we are doing because in reality there's not much in life where we only get one chance or it has to happen RIGHT NOW or it never will again. There's a reason why older people are more cautious: they (should) understand the risks of behavior better and that life unfolds at it's own pace. You can't force something to work. Ever. Never works.

BTW - 23 isn't really all that different than 16, other than you can drink and vote.

KittyDuran
09-10-2008, 06:43 PM
Which might explain why younger people make a lot of dumbass decisions. Not that older people don't make dumb decisions too, but you just don't have enough experience at age 23 to realize how much you really don't know. Many times, that lack of experience leads to stupid choices.

It's that experience, often learned from making the same dumb choices, that usually tells us to slow down and think about what we are doing because in reality there's not much in life where we only get one chance or it has to happen RIGHT NOW or it never will again. There's a reason why older people are more cautious: they (should) understand the risks of behavior better and that life unfolds at it's own pace. You can't force something to work. Ever. Never works.

BTW - 23 isn't really all that different than 16, other than you can drink and vote.

“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.” Mark Twain

savafan
09-10-2008, 10:00 PM
I made a lot of stupid decisions at 16. I made more stupid decisions at 21 and 23. Now at 31 years of age, I find that I make stupid decisions. I've seen my father make stupid decisions at the age of 57. Stupid decisions are part of life, and part of life is to always learn and move forward. Remember what Satchel Paige said about looking back. Go with your heart. Only you know how you feel. Advice given by others can guide you, but it can't decide for you...only you can do that. Whatever you do, if it works out, great. If it doesn't, take what you can from it and apply it to the future.

Regret is like quicksand.

RFS62
09-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Regret is like quicksand.



Quicksand is like quicksand, too.

Roy Tucker
09-11-2008, 08:19 AM
Regret is like quicksand.

Regrets, I've had a few.

But then again, too few to mention.

durl
09-11-2008, 08:38 AM
Many a marriage fail because a woman things she can change a man, that he'll settle down and change his ways once he gets a ring on his finger. The genders may be reversed here but I believe it still applies.

You can't change people from the outside simply by putting them in new circumstances. Typically, what comes out of a person is what's inside. Challenges show the true character. Perhaps this woman's experiences have convinced her to become stable in her relationships but that's an awful big assumption to make. She needs to show a pattern of change before I believe the OP should make any kind of commitment to her.

fearofpopvol1
09-11-2008, 12:27 PM
BTW - 23 isn't really all that different than 16, other than you can drink and vote.

I couldn't disagree with this more. 21? Sure. There was a huge difference from 16 to 23, at least for me.

Now, that doesn't mean I would've been ready to handle kids and all that, but I was a way different person and a lot more mature.

Boston Red
09-11-2008, 01:08 PM
23 isn't that different than 16? Damn, someone must have been either really mature at 16 or REALLY immature at 23!

Roy Tucker
09-11-2008, 01:14 PM
Heck, I'm 56 and I'm still waiting for when I feel mature.

So I just pretend like I am every so often.

cincrazy
09-11-2008, 04:05 PM
I just reread my original post again, and felt the need to clarify something: it's two babies, but the same father. When I was talking to her last year, she went BACK to this guy because I was hesitant, yet she broke it off with him for good to pursue something with me, and that's when she found out she was pregnant again.

So it obviously doesn't change the situation all too much, but dealing with one guy is a hell of a lot better than dealing with two.

Ltlabner
09-11-2008, 04:23 PM
I couldn't disagree with this more. 21? Sure. There was a huge difference from 16 to 23, at least for me.

Now, that doesn't mean I would've been ready to handle kids and all that, but I was a way different person and a lot more mature.


23 isn't that different than 16? Damn, someone must have been either really mature at 16 or REALLY immature at 23!

The issue isn't maturity.

It's experience.

Yes, technically speaking you have more experience at age 23 than 16 but it's still a pin drop in comparison. You really don't start to figure out you don't know anything until your mid 30's and then really start to hit a stride (or so I'm told) as you get into your mid 40's.

How many 23 year old have a mortgage? Have sent a kid off to school? Have bought several cars? Have delt with being laid off? Have racked up huge debts and then paid them off. Have delt with a carear change? Have dealt with a horrable boss? Have delt with being the sole bread-winner? Have delt with relocating an entire family to a brand new city. Have dealt with kids who struggle in school? Have delt with neighbors who let their trees grow over into your yard? Have dealt with property taxes? Dealing with teen aged kids? Been the executor of a will? Have sat in a business meeting and been put on the spot in front of a bunch of your co-workers and superiors?

There's probably some who have some experience with these things, but not to many have experienced most of these things.

It's not to say that you can't live through all of these events and still make horrable decisions. Many adults do. But the more experience you have in life the better information you have to make decisions with. The difference in experiences between 16 and 23 aren't that great with the noteable expection of college, millitary service or someone who is fortunate to travel extensivley around the world.

Hoosier Red
09-11-2008, 04:29 PM
If you wait until you've gone through all those things to make monumental decisions, none of those things will likely happen to you.

Ltlabner
09-11-2008, 04:41 PM
If you wait until you've gone through all those things to make monumental decisions, none of those things will likely happen to you.

No kidding.

I'm not saying don't make the decision. Just that once you've been through one or some of them you have a far greater frame of reference for the next big decision that comes along.

And often times you figure out over time/years that those decisions you thought you just had to make or else you'd curl up and die weren't so monumental after all. Or that it could have waited. Or you should have gotten more input. Or whatever.

That's why when a person (or better yet several persons) with more experience suggests you hold off on something, it *might* be a good idea to at least consider the advice rather than blowing it off as a up-tight old fogey.

The Baumer
09-11-2008, 04:42 PM
To original poster- the advice we are giving you is pretty simple:

"Do what I did!" :)

fearofpopvol1
09-11-2008, 07:54 PM
The issue isn't maturity.

It's experience.

Yes, technically speaking you have more experience at age 23 than 16 but it's still a pin drop in comparison. You really don't start to figure out you don't know anything until your mid 30's and then really start to hit a stride (or so I'm told) as you get into your mid 40's.

Speak for yourself, please. It's a generalization that may sometimes be true, but certainly not always.


How many 23 year old have a mortgage? Have sent a kid off to school? Have bought several cars? Have delt with being laid off? Have racked up huge debts and then paid them off. Have delt with a carear change? Have dealt with a horrable boss? Have delt with being the sole bread-winner? Have delt with relocating an entire family to a brand new city. Have dealt with kids who struggle in school? Have delt with neighbors who let their trees grow over into your yard? Have dealt with property taxes? Dealing with teen aged kids? Been the executor of a will? Have sat in a business meeting and been put on the spot in front of a bunch of your co-workers and superiors?

Sure, all of those things contribute to experience, but it's not necessary to experience all of those things to make a big decision.

I'm not denying that life experience makes you wiser and makes you a better decision maker, but it doesn't mean that you can't make big or sound decisions. I've made plenty of decisions in my early 20's that were very sound and I know a lot of people that have done the same. Maybe your life or experiences were different, but that doesn't mean everyone else has or will travel down the same path.

Hoosier Red
09-11-2008, 08:08 PM
No kidding.

I'm not saying don't make the decision. Just that once you've been through one or some of them you have a far greater frame of reference for the next big decision that comes along.

And often times you figure out over time/years that those decisions you thought you just had to make or else you'd curl up and die weren't so monumental after all. Or that it could have waited. Or you should have gotten more input. Or whatever.

That's why when a person (or better yet several persons) with more experience suggests you hold off on something, it *might* be a good idea to at least consider the advice rather than blowing it off as a up-tight old fogey.

No I understand. i was really just teasing.
Especially when CinCrazy comes here and asks for advice. It's pretty much assumed he's not going to blow off any of it, old fogeyish that it may be.

Ltlabner
09-11-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm not denying that life experience makes you wiser and makes you a better decision maker, but it doesn't mean that you can't make big or sound decisions. I've made plenty of decisions in my early 20's that were very sound and I know a lot of people that have done the same. Maybe your life or experiences were different, but that doesn't mean everyone else has or will travel down the same path.

The conversation isn't about whether any 23 year old is capabile of making a good decision. Plenty of 23 year olds make plenty of good decisions.

The conversation is about whether a specific 23 year old who's got puppy-love for a girl ought to consider the advice of those who've been there before him. A sub-plot is how experience usually results in people being more cautious and thinking decisions through before acting.

Perhaps you see the destinction, perhaps you don't.

fearofpopvol1
09-11-2008, 09:51 PM
The conversation isn't about whether any 23 year old is capabile of making a good decision. Plenty of 23 year olds make plenty of good decisions.

The conversation is about whether a specific 23 year old who's got puppy-love for a girl ought to consider the advice of those who've been there before him. A sub-plot is how experience usually results in people being more cautious and thinking decisions through before acting.

Perhaps you see the destinction, perhaps you don't.

Well excuse me! I didn't know that the conversation police happened to be in the building tonight! Thanks for clearing up what the conversation was about.

I've read the thread and all the posts within. You're arguing the "experience" and "I'm older and have been through more which makes the person wiser" approach and I'm arguing that it's not essential to make a big/important decision.

Perhaps you're having difficulty making the distinction...

M2
09-11-2008, 10:12 PM
I just reread my original post again, and felt the need to clarify something: it's two babies, but the same father. When I was talking to her last year, she went BACK to this guy because I was hesitant, yet she broke it off with him for good to pursue something with me, and that's when she found out she was pregnant again.

So it obviously doesn't change the situation all too much, but dealing with one guy is a hell of a lot better than dealing with two.

Quick question, how many times has she broken up with and gotten back together with this guy?

I ask because there are certain couples that can yo-yo for a few decades (especially if they've got kids). I'm not saying that's definitely going to happen here, just that it's another thing to consider.

dougdirt
09-11-2008, 10:17 PM
The conversation isn't about whether any 23 year old is capabile of making a good decision. Plenty of 23 year olds make plenty of good decisions.

The conversation is about whether a specific 23 year old who's got puppy-love for a girl ought to consider the advice of those who've been there before him. A sub-plot is how experience usually results in people being more cautious and thinking decisions through before acting.

Perhaps you see the destinction, perhaps you don't.

Of course at the same time this 24 year old see's where you are making an assumption that this is a 'puppy love' situation. No one on here really knows the situation of what he is feeling in his heart and his mind.

Fact is, no one on this board can really give good advice because we know so little about the guy and girl in this situation or how either of them is feeling to a full extent.

My advice, do what you feel you should do. You know more about the situation and how you feel than you could ever tell us.

cincrazy
09-11-2008, 11:33 PM
Quick question, how many times has she broken up with and gotten back together with this guy?

I ask because there are certain couples that can yo-yo for a few decades (especially if they've got kids). I'm not saying that's definitely going to happen here, just that it's another thing to consider.

To my knowledge they were together 3 years, broke it off, and were again together briefly. But you raise a good point, I know couple's that are like that too.

Highlifeman21
09-12-2008, 01:05 AM
I mean no disrespect, but every time I read this thread I get the song "I'm in love with a stripper" stuck in my head.

Jpup
09-12-2008, 01:18 AM
Of course at the same time this 24 year old see's where you are making an assumption that this is a 'puppy love' situation. No one on here really knows the situation of what he is feeling in his heart and his mind.

Fact is, no one on this board can really give good advice because we know so little about the guy and girl in this situation or how either of them is feeling to a full extent.

My advice, do what you feel you should do. You know more about the situation and how you feel than you could ever tell us.

feelings will get you in a whole lot of trouble. Follow your head, not your feelings.

FlyerFanatic
09-12-2008, 01:35 AM
If you fail to follow your feelings then whats the point in anything? Its an easy cop out to not feel pain and to make things easier. But when your life has ran its toll and your near the end are you going to look back and say man I'm glad I didnt follow my feelings? NO. You only get one chance in life, no regrets.



feelings will get you in a whole lot of trouble. Follow your head, not your feelings.

dougdirt
09-12-2008, 01:39 AM
feelings will get you in a whole lot of trouble. Follow your head, not your feelings.

You have to use a little bit of both. Using only one or the other will indeed get you in a lot of trouble. He is the only person though that knows whats going on in his head, in reality and in his heart. We can't tell him how he feels and words can't fully describe any of those to us enough to where we can honestly give him advice based on enough information.

Jpup
09-12-2008, 02:44 AM
You have to use a little bit of both. Using only one or the other will indeed get you in a lot of trouble. He is the only person though that knows whats going on in his head, in reality and in his heart. We can't tell him how he feels and words can't fully describe any of those to us enough to where we can honestly give him advice based on enough information.

i'm just saying that is my philosophy, in general. Feelings aren't my thing. People use "my feelings" for an excuse, far too often.

Jpup
09-12-2008, 02:45 AM
If you fail to follow your feelings then whats the point in anything? Its an easy cop out to not feel pain and to make things easier. But when your life has ran its toll and your near the end are you going to look back and say man I'm glad I didnt follow my feelings? NO. You only get one chance in life, no regrets.

No regrets. I'm good. :D

Ltlabner
09-12-2008, 07:11 AM
I mean no disrespect, but every time I read this thread I get the song "I'm in love with a stripper" stuck in my head.

Now that's funny.

Roy Tucker
09-12-2008, 08:20 AM
I've read the thread and all the posts within. You're arguing the "experience" and "I'm older and have been through more which makes the person wiser" approach and I'm arguing that it's not essential to make a big/important decision.



Hmmm... I seem to recall I've heard this argument somewhere before. Perhaps in the political arena? :rolleyes:

My wife always said she learns from experiences others have and doesn't necessarily have to go through it herself. She can learn the lesson by just seeing it.

I, on the other hand, had to repeat all the classic mistakes a young man can make. Even though I knew I was on a path to peril, I thought I was different. I knew that stuff had happened to others, but it wouldn't happen to me. I'm smarter than that.

Hah.

durl
09-12-2008, 08:39 AM
feelings will get you in a whole lot of trouble. Follow your head, not your feelings.

I agree. To quote a line from an Amy Grant song from the 80's, "use your head to guard your heart."

(100 bonus points if anyone can name the song and album...)

Cyclone792
09-12-2008, 09:43 AM
I mean no disrespect, but every time I read this thread I get the song "I'm in love with a stripper" stuck in my head.

Got the body of a goddess
Got eyes, butter pecan brown, I see you girl

M2
09-12-2008, 01:06 PM
I mean no disrespect, but every time I read this thread I get the song "I'm in love with a stripper" stuck in my head.

Back in the day, I dated a stripper for a month. It was fun, but the key was to make sure everything stayed real superficial. I don't think either one of us ever asked the question - "So what else have you been up to?"

M2
09-12-2008, 01:08 PM
If you fail to follow your feelings then whats the point in anything? Its an easy cop out to not feel pain and to make things easier. But when your life has ran its toll and your near the end are you going to look back and say man I'm glad I didnt follow my feelings? NO. You only get one chance in life, no regrets.

Feelings, nothing more than feelings,
trying to forget my feelings of love.
Teardrops rolling down on my face,
trying to forget my feelings of love.

Feelings, for all my life I'll feel it.
I wish I've never met you, girl; you'll never come again.

Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
wo-o-o, feel you again in my arms.

Feelings, feelings like I've never lost you
and feelings like I've never have you again in my heart.

Feelings, for all my life I'll feel it.
I wish I've never met you, girl; you'll never come again.

Feelings, feelings like I've never lost you
and feelings like I've never have you again in my life.

Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
wo-o-o, feelings again in my arms.
Feelings...(repeat & fade)

Team Clark
09-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Tough one. I'd have to say let the dust settle and the "falling hard" part wear off a bit. You're young and have time on your side. You just don't have time to "force" the issue.

vaticanplum
09-13-2008, 06:08 PM
Six pages of advice and experience and not one person has asked cincrazy what it is he likes and cares for about this girl. I for one would like to hear. It would shed a lot of light on this particular situation and help us detach it from our own pasts from an advice standpoint.

Beyond the basics of the advice that we're giving you here -- and I think most people have pretty much the same bottom line: proceed if you want, but do so with caution -- it really is cincrazy's situation and no one else's. We can stereotype this girl and her situation, we can make assumptions about 23 year olds, and these stereotypes and assumptions probably have merit and, frankly, are probably correct if they veer toward the skeptical. But we don't know. We have no idea where she is emotionally after what she's been through and what she's looking for. We don't know how these two communicate and treat each other. Do most relationships in these circumstances work out? No. And then some do. Because relationships are about people, not odds.

Look, I have traditionally been extremely realistic and borderline pessimistic in matters of love. It is my absolute nature -- in this area of life and this one only -- to proceed with caution, to look 50 times before I leap, etc. All of you old fogeys on here could have given me this advice at 23, and I would have taken it and added six layers of extra caution and you all would have been so satisfied and proud. And where did that get me? It probably saved me a few heartbreaks. It also probably spared me a few great loves. It made me almost incapable of recognizing good things when they did come along. It's the same caution that kept me in a middling-to-messy relationship about four years longer than I should have stayed in it. Don't get me wrong, I have no regrets. I am who I am and I love where I am now. But there are two sides to every coin. The same impetuousness that you can only have when you're young is the same thing that helps you bounce back much better than you're usually able to when you're older. Is cincrazy more likely to get his heart broken than he might be in the same situation ten years from now? Perhaps. He's also arguably more likely to survive it and move forward with a better sense of who he is and what he wants from love.

So the "I've been there, it's unlikely to work, proceed with caution" advice, I totally get. The "I've been there, the odds are against you, run while you can" advice, I can't get behind. I can't really believe that I'm saying this, but the follow your head, not your heart thing just doesn't work in my opinion. In matters of appliance purchases, follow your head. In matters of love, use your head, but follow your heart. I mean, can you think of a better area in life to use your heart? Your head, in these situations, is only going to tell you what's wrong -- which is valid. But without listening to your heart, you will not know what about this is right. And this is something that I've learned ONLY with experience, thank you.

Some of you "old fogeys" who know better because you've been there seem to be missing half of your own point -- you've been there. You know what you know because you went through it, not because someone told you. You have your happy marriages because you had things behind you upon which to build them. Would you deny your own experience to save yourself a bad break-up or two? Are you genuinely comfortable telling someone to avoid any situation that may be great because it will probably be bad -- knowing that experience is experience no matter how it ends up?

So cincrazy, presuming you understand the risks here -- REALLY understand them as much as you can at this point, not "understand" them romantically or exclusively of the inevitable difficulties of a situation like this -- I say examine why you feel the way you do about this girl. If your reasons are transient or strictly romantic, then think some more. If your reasons have to do with who she really is and are things that you can see helping to build something long-term (because it doesn't sound like a fling would really work here for either of you), then see what you can do here. And that is the same advice I would give to a 20 or 30 or 50 or 80 year old. My own experience dictates nothing if not that other people need to have their own.

RBA
09-13-2008, 09:14 PM
Run.

CrackerJack
09-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Run.

Best advice so far.

Red in Chicago
09-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Best advice so far.

"Run" was my initial thought on this as well. I can't imagine doing anything else, but I didn't want to be impolite.

RFS62
09-14-2008, 06:18 AM
VP, very nice post, except for calling all those young punks old fogeys.

The thing that makes this one different is the fact that there are children involved. That adds a layer of complexity.

You can't get involved, go "all in", unless you're ready to accept that responsibility. If you are, that's great, go for it.

You can afford to be ruled by your emotions in your own affairs. It's your business, and your life. But you have to consider those kids in your deliberations.

GAC
09-14-2008, 07:19 AM
Well, this "old fogey" will weigh in (I guess)...


But I can't explain why I still feel something for her..... But I know if I get with her, and it works, I can be great for her, and more importantly great for her little kids.

Is this too risky? I'm not going to date her tomorrow, but we both agreed to take things slow, patch things up a bit, and go from there. Is it worth the trouble? Should I run the other way? Or should I try so hard to make it work with a girl I care so much about?

First off - exercise extreme caution towards any of the advice given on here. Everyone's situation, as well as emotional and mental make-up, is different and not applicable to all situations.

Just because someone else got involved in a similar situation, and it didn't work out, doesn't mean that would be true in your case.

Advice from others may be good; but when it comes down to it, only you, and this woman, can work through all this and see if it's going to work. A mutual effort.

My first piece of advice is this.... If both of you are serious about wanting, or seeing, if this relation can work, have either of you considered sitting down with and talking to someone trained in counseling, whether it's a relationship (marriage) counselor or a pastor of some sorts?

These are individuals who are highly trained in this very field who know how to assess and evaluate the many nuances that are involved in a relationship, whether they are emotional and/or physical or whatever.

If your car don't work, you take it to a mechanic. If you think there is something physically wrong with you, you go see a doctor. IMHO, the same is applicable here.

In any commitment, and that is exactly what it involves - commitment - both parties must understand and possess those capabilities to make it work. It can't be one-sided. And if there are issues that neither party is sure how to address, then go to someone experienced and/or trained in these situations.

You seem to care an awful lot for this girl from what I've read. Yet I also sense that any "apprehensions" you may have are if she cares as much, holds those equal feelings, for you. Because while you were seeing each other she did have a physical relationship with another man that conceived another child.

So now she has two children by two other men? Now can that be a problem? Yes and No. Are those two "dads" involved in these children's lives, or planning on being so? Does she still hold some sort of "attachment" to either of them?

Again - this is something that I highly recommend both of you seek professional help (wisdom) from. Not from a sports forum.

It appears to me, and only from what you've revealed, that she may have an issue of self-confidence and/or emotional immaturity. And that could stem from any relationship she had with these other men. We don't now what kind of personalities they were. They could have easily contributed to this, if it is true.

It's good (above) that you have both decided to take things slow.

You ask... "should I try so hard to make it work with a girl I care so much about?" Yes you should. I commend you for that. But if she is not also trying as hard, then your efforts could be in vain and later on lead to heartbreak.

Seek professional counseling. If both of you care about the other, then isn't that worth it, to address any lingering issues? Because I am one who believes that when a couple enter into a marriage relationship, it should be with someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. And if there are "issues" evident now, then you both have to work to get them resolved before making that commitment.

Good luck.

vaticanplum
09-14-2008, 12:39 PM
VP, very nice post, except for calling all those young punks old fogeys.

The thing that makes this one different is the fact that there are children involved. That adds a layer of complexity.

You can't get involved, go "all in", unless you're ready to accept that responsibility. If you are, that's great, go for it.

You can afford to be ruled by your emotions in your own affairs. It's your business, and your life. But you have to consider those kids in your deliberations.

Right. That's the cautionary aspect, which I fully support.

Reds4Life
09-14-2008, 12:48 PM
Run.

+1 With RBA on this one.

It's very hard, I fell for a women who wasn't single (no kids though) and it nearly killed me. She was everything I ever wanted, perfect for me. It didn't help that we were very close friends either. I am still not over it.

Run as fast as you can, or you are asking for a lot of pain in the future.

cincrazy
10-30-2008, 10:20 PM
Some heartbreaking news to report... her infant son has a hole in his heart, is due for open heart surgery at any moment. I guess it's a pretty significant deal. The doctor's were hoping medicine could help put the surgery off and that the strength of the heart would improve, but that hasn't happened, so surgery as soon as possible is necessary.

We are not dating, and haven't even discussed it. We've continued as friends, however, and this breaks my heart. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayer's.

SandyD
10-31-2008, 12:42 AM
An acquaintance of mine thru my sister has a son who had a hole in his heart. He had the surgery when he was very young. He's 6 years old now, and you wouldn't know it. Tho he's a small child, he seems to be living a normal, healthy life.

Obviously this is serious, and I wish him all the best.

Just saying that families can and do pull thru this.

Spring~Fields
10-31-2008, 01:51 AM
I'm 23 years old. Recently out of college with a journalism degree, but going back for more schooling.

Sounds like you have had some pretty good goals and objectives for your life and that you have some very constructive plans. I would recommend that you continue to focus on your goals and objectives for your life.



I fell for her HARD last year, and eventually accepted the fact that she had a little boy, and actually came to be excited about that. But by the time I was ready to start anything, she moved on and was with another guy... and got pregnant again. Well, she dumped this guy before she knew she was pregnant, because she wanted to be with me. But when that happened, I was obviously hurt, and disappointed she'd be so stupid, to be honest with you. It happened once, bad enough. But twice?

If the shoe was on the other foot and we had written for your advice, and after you had read this above?

What advice would you give us if we had written that? What would you tell us?

Ltlabner
10-31-2008, 07:10 AM
Some heartbreaking news to report... her infant son has a hole in his heart, is due for open heart surgery at any moment. I guess it's a pretty significant deal. The doctor's were hoping medicine could help put the surgery off and that the strength of the heart would improve, but that hasn't happened, so surgery as soon as possible is necessary.

We are not dating, and haven't even discussed it. We've continued as friends, however, and this breaks my heart. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayer's.

Wow.

All that other drama seems pretty irrelevant now.

Our prayers go out for the little boy. I'm sure that's terrifying for all involved.

BoydsOfSummer
10-31-2008, 10:18 AM
Good thoughts for the lil feller. I was born with a good heart and trashed it. I hope he gets a better chance at things.

RichRed
10-31-2008, 10:25 AM
I grew up with a guy who had open heart surgery as a small child and he's had no problems in the 30-some-years since. I wish the same for this little guy.

Caseyfan21
10-31-2008, 02:40 PM
I grew up with a guy who had open heart surgery as a small child and he's had no problems in the 30-some-years since. I wish the same for this little guy.

Yeah, I have a friend who is currently playing professional baseball (minor leagues) and he had open heart surgery when he was young.

Let's hope this little guy can pull through it.

cincrazy
10-31-2008, 03:36 PM
An acquaintance of mine thru my sister has a son who had a hole in his heart. He had the surgery when he was very young. He's 6 years old now, and you wouldn't know it. Tho he's a small child, he seems to be living a normal, healthy life.

Obviously this is serious, and I wish him all the best.

Just saying that families can and do pull thru this.

I also know people who had this procedure done and show no ill effects years later. I guess his hole was more pronounced than it normally should be though, or something to that effect. They wanted to wait 6 weeks to do the surgery, but I guess it was too urgent, since he's struggling with simple things such as eating, and is also having trouble breathing

klw
10-31-2008, 05:58 PM
A HS friend of mine had this surgery as a baby. We ran track and cross country together. He is now a heart surgeon. I hope things go well with the surgery.

cincrazy
11-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Things are not good at the moment. The initial surgery went well enough, but there was still more work to be done. However, the baby has become very ill, and she had to rush him back to the hospital last night. I've only received a few words from her today, but she told me it isn't going good. I'm powerless. A friend is going through so much, and there's literally NOTHING I can do. Please continue to keep Kirsten and Joey in your thoughts and/or prayer's... they need them now more than ever.

camisadelgolf
11-24-2008, 03:18 PM
The feeling of helplessness is one of the worst feelings in the world. I just hope you realize that all you can do is be supportive, and if things don't pan out as desired, don't blame yourself. I wish you and the people close to you the best.

BoydsOfSummer
11-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Keep fighting, Joey!

Mario-Rijo
11-25-2008, 01:07 AM
I'm sorry I just found this thread tonight.

If the original topic ever arises again CC, I'd echo RFS62 and VP's thoughts on the subject. Very impressive stuff you 2.

I hope all goes well for little Joey and family, they will be in my thoughts and prayers.

cincrazy
11-25-2008, 04:41 PM
I just got back from the hospital. While we were there, the doctor came in and picked Joey up and rushed him to the ER. His heart is in the process of failing. His heart valve is leaking, and the only way he has a chance to survive is if they replace the valve. They rushed us into the ER, and shove me and her off into a side room with the curtain pulled back, while they struggle to support him. I've never been so devastated in my life. To look into his beautiful, big brown eyes, and to know the hell he's going through....

And she just broke down, and I'm trying to support her, doing everything that I can do... I'm just sick with grief. Nothing is worse than an infant going through this.

camisadelgolf
11-25-2008, 04:58 PM
I'm so sorry. My deepest sympathies go to you in this terrible time. This is truly heart-breaking. I wish you the best of luck.

morande
11-25-2008, 10:40 PM
Sounds like you shouls lock it down, and turn the boy into a 3b for us!!

gonelong
11-26-2008, 02:26 PM
The GL family is all pulling for all 3 of you, especially Joey.

GL

cincrazy
11-26-2008, 02:32 PM
I appreciate all of the kind words. Can anyone tell me what the prognosis is for heart valve replacement surgery? Has anyone reading this had a loved one go through it, or has anyone experienced it themselves? Or maybe someone in the medical field could help me out?

Cyclone792
11-26-2008, 04:10 PM
I appreciate all of the kind words. Can anyone tell me what the prognosis is for heart valve replacement surgery? Has anyone reading this had a loved one go through it, or has anyone experienced it themselves? Or maybe someone in the medical field could help me out?

I'm sorry for all you guys are going through.

Disclaimer: I'm not a cardiac surgeon and I wouldn't take this for much more than a grain of salt ...

From what I know, heart valve replacement surgery for someone that young is incredibly rare, and there's different kinds of valve replacements (aortic, mitral, pulmonary, tricuspid). I'm not sure if the risk is any greater/lower depending on which valve. The good news, generally, is that the short-term prognosis should be very good (i.e. discharged from the hospital safe and sound). He's likely to be in the hospital for awhile though after the surgery.

As far as typical long-term prognosis, I'm not really sure.

vaticanplum
11-26-2008, 07:42 PM
I'm no doctor either, but I do know someone who had this surgery. A guy I dated had a valve replaced with a pig valve (prompting endless Untamed Heart jokes from my deeply sensitive friends). He has to watch what he eats but he is doing fine. I think he will need the same surgery again periodically, say every 15 years or so.

Best of thoughts to you and the family, cincrazy.

cincrazy
11-27-2008, 11:59 AM
They are in the process of doing a blood transfusion right now... could someone tell me what that means exactly?

dfs
11-27-2008, 06:39 PM
They are taking blood from a donar at the blood bank and putting it into the little guys bloodstream. It probably means he's lost some blood. Not too surprising.

You have my sympathies.

cincrazy
10-11-2009, 09:49 PM
A quick update on the situation...

Me and her have remained friends. I've been in contact with her pretty consistently, and today Joey (the infant with heart problems) started to have a lot of trouble, and he's currently in the hospital with very low oxygen levels that they can't seem to raise.

He was scheduled for an appointment tomorrow, they were going to set a date for his next surgery. He's also coming off a bout with the flu, , so it's pretty serious right now.

Please keep the little guy and his family in your thoughts and prayers, pretty tough time right now.