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redhawk61
09-25-2008, 07:26 AM
DAYTON — Donnie Scott, whose tenure as manager of the Dayton Dragons lasted five years, will not return for a sixth.
This week, Scott was informed he would not be rehired by the parent Reds organization, for whom he has worked the last 19 seasons, usually as a manager of one of their low minor-league teams.

"I loved Dayton; it was a blast," said Scott from his Tampa-area home on Wednesday, Sept 24. He managed the Class A Midwest League Dragons from 2001-03, plus the past two seasons. Four of his teams made the playoffs, although none reached the championship round.

"Terry Reynolds (Reds director of development) called me, and he didn't talk very long," Scott said. "That's the decision they made. I've got to move on."
Reynolds still isn't talking much.

"We appreciate the work Donnie has done, and we wish him the best," said Reynolds, who is mulling possible replacements at the Reds Instructional League in Sarasota. He would not elaborate and said his first choice as a replacement would come from within the organization.

Scott said he didn't know if the brawl his team had with Peoria (Ill.) on July 24 had anything to do with his dismissal, although new Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty picked that day to get his first in-house glimpse of the Dragons.

"I don't know if that had anything to do with it," Scott said. "I think they just wanted to make a change."
On the night in question, the Dragons received national media attention from the fight after Scott demanded interim Peoria manager Carmelo Martinez to stop yelling at his players, and Martinez came out of the dugout to confront Scott. Benches emptied after Martinez shoved Scott.

Scott, who turned 47 last month, spent parts of four seasons as a catcher in the majors with Texas, Seattle and Cincinnati, his last stop, in 1991. Before that season was finished, he was hired by then-Reds General Manager Jim Bowden to be on the organizations' minor-league staff.

It was a dream organization for Scott, who grew up in Tampa when the Reds trained there. He became a devoted fan of Pete Rose and wore Pete's No. 14 with the Dragons.

He worked through three Reds ownership groups, four farm directors and four general managers. However, he was not asked to participate in the organization's Instructional League, which began Monday in Sarasota, a bad sign, since he lives about an hour away and usually does work with the most highly considered Reds prospects.

Scott's overall regular-season record with the Dragons was 360-336 (.517), and he managed only two losing seasons — 2003 (61-78) and this season (66-72) — although the 2003 team was the only one to miss the playoffs.

For the most part, he was hampered by a lack of quality prospects and the Reds' philosophy of developing players first and winning if they can. Still, he refused to say anything bad about the Reds.
"They did a lot for me," Scott said. "I'm just praying I get (another) job."


http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/09/25/ddn092508spdragons.html

princeton
09-25-2008, 08:03 AM
Donnie had his chance with Mesoraco.

NEXT!

Mario-Rijo
09-25-2008, 08:50 AM
Hmm, interesting I kind of liked Scott actually. But hopefully this is just the start of a major coaching overhaul from top to bottom. The coaching throughout hasn't been the greatest IMO.

Goodbye:
Pole
Power
Browning

And anyone got anyone else they wanna toss on to the heap. I suppose Hatcher is also likely gone, although his manager should be the 1st to get the axe but I doubt he will.

OnBaseMachine
09-25-2008, 12:31 PM
Here's another article where Marc Katz whines like he always does.

Reds let go of minor league manager

By Marc Katz

Staff Writer

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

DAYTON

He could be short-tempered and occasionally volatile, but Donnie Scott did the best he could with what the parent Reds sent him.

I never heard him curse about a ballplayer, and Donnie Scott cursed quite a bit.

He saw his job as nurturing the young hopefuls along as manager of the Class A Dayton Dragons, and that meant leaving a starter in when he was in trouble, allowing a left-handed hitter to bat against a left-handed flame-thrower and not pinch-hitting a .220 hitter with the bases loaded, trailing by a run with two out in the bottom of the ninth.

The idea was, find out if a guy can do it in the minors before he gets a chance to do it in the majors.

Still, I can't say the Reds did the wrong thing by letting him go, as they did this week following Scott's 19 years with the club in various minor league duties.

I can't tell you he did a bad job, either. I can tell you the Reds did have done a bad job.

Their minor league teams seldom win. When the teams are good, they move players before they win anything, teaching them individual development is much more important than winning as a team a trait those players seem to carry with them to the major league level.

A minor league manager can't do much about this. He takes the players he is handed and the Reds have handed Dayton managers some fairly bad players over the years and must work with them to develop them into what they can become.

Over the last two years, the talent pool has deepened, mostly because Terry Reynolds was the head of scouting, until Reynolds was moved to farm director under the guidance of then general manager Wayne Krivsky. Reynolds is the fourth farm director in nine years of Dragons teams, and organizations that change farm directors that many times usually don't have much of a farm system.

Yet much of the blame for what happens in the minors falls on the manager. He must play the guys he's told to play, which means that's great if it's Todd Frazier, but not so wonderful if it's Tiago Campos.

There have been four managers of the Dragons, starting with Freddie Benavides in 2000. Scott managed the next three seasons, followed by two Alonzo Powell (he was done in by GM Dan O'Brien's piggy-back pitching rotation and the insistence his batters each take a strike) years, followed by a year of Billy Gardner. Scott returned for the last two seasons.

Powell was laid back and every position player on the team gravitated to him on hitting. Gardner basically stayed in his office. Scott let the players play, but when they didn't give their best, he was in the clubhouse with a bullhorn voice and eyes flaming.

I often tried to get him to rip the Reds for doing something stupid forcing him to play a guy who obviously couldn't perform, wondering why a guy was promoted and leaving the Dragons to figuring out how to replace him or asking why a player was drafted in the first place.

He always always told me he didn't have the master plan, that the Reds did, that they were doing what they thought was right.

He was a company man, and now he'll have to find a new company. That's too bad. Then again, maybe the Reds did him a favor. The rookie teams supported by the Reds this year didn't have any top 20 prospects as selected by Baseball America. Those are teams that feed the Dragons next season.

I know how Scott would have reacted. He would have cursed at a question questioning the Reds. He would have said the Reds have a plan. And he would have tried his best to make it work.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/09/24/ddn092508spkatzweb.html

dougdirt
09-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Their minor league teams seldom win. When the teams are good, they move players before they win anything, teaching them individual development is much more important than winning as a team a trait those players seem to carry with them to the major league level.

Yeah, because no teams promote their best players during the season but the Reds..... :rolleyes:

lollipopcurve
09-25-2008, 01:37 PM
I guess it just stinks that Neftali Soto had to be promoted midseason, leading the Dragons to the playoffs.

And if I'm a player in Billings/GCL this year who ends up in Dayton next year, I don't think I take too kindly to Katz's suggestion that I can't be all that good.

redsof72
09-25-2008, 03:54 PM
In my opinion, Katz makes some good points. However, I would expect that the primary reason that Donnie Scott did not question the master plan to Katz is fairly obvious, since Katz is a newspaper writer and a quote in print attributed to a manager questioning his own organization would be career suicide.

I would disagree with him if he is questioning the Reds for promoting Frazier, Stewart, Klinker, etc. That is what the minor leagues are all about. What I saw this season that was troublesome, and it looks like Katz saw it too, was a complete lack of importance placed on the games themselves as anything more than glorified practices (up until playoff time). This is NOT the norm in minor league baseball. To learn how to win, you have to play the games to win, not just to get your four at-bats. A hitter has to figure out how to beat a pitcher when the game is on the line, when that pitcher has to get a strikeout, and he is going to reach back and find something extra and give you everything he's got, and you, as a hitter, have to come up with a way to beat him. An outfielder has to learn the importance of keeping the tying run out of scoring position in the ninth inning. A baserunner has to learn that the reward of going from first to third on a single is greater with one out than it is with two. Games are generally decided by these things, in the minors or majors.

The Reds have not figured out that those moments are when the real player development takes place. Maybe the new Jockety regime will change that.

Many on this site will disagree with what I have to say on this issue and tell you there is no such thing as clutch play, that you can see all you need to see in the stats. I wonder if they remember Pete Rose? I think he brought a little more to the table than his OPS would indicate.

dougdirt
09-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Many on this site will disagree with what I have to say on this issue and tell you there is no such thing as clutch play, that you can see all you need to see in the stats. I wonder if they remember Pete Rose? I think he brought a little more to the table than his OPS would indicate.

I don't think anyone will tell you there isn't a such thing as a clutch play, just that there aren't really clutch players.

Redman15
09-25-2008, 04:00 PM
I thought Donnie did a pretty good job. I also thought
The Rooster did a great job in Billings and look where that
got him. It's just the nature of the business.
I'm sure Donnie will have a job next week. I think Burleson
ended up with the D' Backs.

lollipopcurve
09-25-2008, 04:00 PM
What I saw this season that was troublesome, and it looks like Katz saw it too, was a complete lack of importance placed on the games themselves as anything more than glorified practices (up until playoff time). This is NOT the norm in minor league baseball. To learn how to win, you have to play the games to win, not just to get your four at-bats. A hitter has to figure out how to beat a pitcher when the game is on the line, when that pitcher has to get a strikeout, and he is going to reach back and find something extra and give you everything he's got, and you, as a hitter, have to come up with a way to beat him. An outfielder has to learn the importance of keeping the tying run out of scoring position in the ninth inning. A baserunner has to learn that the reward of going from first to third on a single is greater with one out than it is with two. Games are generally decided by these things, in the minors or majors.


I tend to agree with you.
It's the manager's and the coaches' job to teach that stuff, day in and day out. It isn't the player development director's job. If the Dragons were consistently short in the kind of play you describe, then Scott was not doing his job well.

Hoosier Red
09-25-2008, 04:09 PM
Is it just me or do we get an article from Katz once a year complaining that the Reds don't allow the minor league teams to keep all their best players at Low-A thus enabling the Dragons to dominate their league?

lollipopcurve
09-25-2008, 04:16 PM
Is it just me or do we get an article from Katz once a year complaining that the Reds don't allow the minor league teams to keep all their best players at Low-A thus enabling the Dragons to dominate their league?

I get the same impression.

Tony Cloninger
09-25-2008, 04:56 PM
Yes....we do remember Pete.....the whole town of Cincy remembers Pete and seem incapable of letting any player who does not hustle as much as he did....be worth much at all or be allowed to wear the uniform for very long without being told he does not do enough or hustle enough.

Pete was a very rare breed.....great, off the charts hustle to go with HOF numbers. A HOF player known more for his hustle than his numbers.

redsmetz
09-25-2008, 05:22 PM
Still, I can't say the Reds did the wrong thing by letting him go, as they did this week following Scott's 19 years with the club in various minor league duties.

I can't tell you he did a bad job, either. I can tell you the Reds did — have done — a bad job.

Their minor league teams seldom win. When the teams are good, they move players before they win anything, teaching them individual development is much more important than winning as a team — a trait those players seem to carry with them to the major league level.

Certainly the minors are for developing the players and moving them towards the big league club, but the last part I quote about winning as a team, may have a germ of truth to it. The minors always have competing interests - having winning clubs and developing your players. But I would think that the Chattanooga owner probably thought the same way. I don't know what the right solution is.

mth123
09-25-2008, 05:39 PM
I tend to agree with you.
It's the manager's and the coaches' job to teach that stuff, day in and day out. It isn't the player development director's job. If the Dragons were consistently short in the kind of play you describe, then Scott was not doing his job well.

I think the proof is on the major league team. Scott has been there 19 years and over that time this team has had oodles of problems with players who don't know which base to throw to, can't run the bases, and make mental error after mental error.

Talent evaluation is the primary reason the Reds come up short in speed, power or pitching, but these baseball sense issues are a failing of the coaches. 19 years in the Reds org is an indictment not a laurel.

OnBaseMachine
09-27-2008, 12:24 AM
Dragons pitching coach let go

By Marc Katz

Staff Writer

Saturday, September 27, 2008

DAYTON Pitching coach Doug Bair became the second casualty on the Dragons staff manager Donnie Scott also was not retained when he was informed this week by Reds farm director Terry Reynolds he would not be retained after three years in the organization, the last two with the Dragons.

"He told me I didn't have good enough rapport with the pitchers, and I didn't have good enough communication with pitching coordinator Mac Jenkins," Bair, a former long-time major-league pitcher, said Friday, Sept. 26, from his Cincinnati home.

"If he thinks for a minute I didn't have rapport with the pitchers, he's mistaken."

While the Dragons did finish last in the Midwest League with a 4.19 ERA, several pitchers improved dramatically under Bair, who spent the last three seasons in the organization, the last two with the Dragons.

Reynolds would not comment on what he said to Bair and had not determined what will happen to batting coach Darren Bragg.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/09/27/ddn092708spdragons.html

Tony Cloninger
09-27-2008, 12:31 PM
Isn't Mack Jenkins....Team Clark's favorite coach? ;)

TC has a strong distaste for this guys ability.....makes me wonder if he is one who get's by on his personality and butt kissing.

Team Clark
09-30-2008, 03:50 PM
Isn't Mack Jenkins....Team Clark's favorite coach? ;)

TC has a strong distaste for this guys ability.....makes me wonder if he is one who get's by on his personality and butt kissing.

Jenkins is by all accounts "horrible". I have honestly never met a more unqualified, incapable coach anywhere, ever. Calling him inept would be complimenting him. Just sayin'....

I have had some good dialogue with Terry Reynolds this year just by chance. I am tempted to give him a call about the Bair firing. No one has a rapport with Jenkins because it's impossible.

Mario-Rijo
10-01-2008, 05:07 AM
Jenkins is by all accounts "horrible". I have honestly never met a more unqualified, incapable coach anywhere, ever. Calling him inept would be complimenting him. Just sayin'....

I have had some good dialogue with Terry Reynolds this year just by chance. I am tempted to give him a call about the Bair firing. No one has a rapport with Jenkins because it's impossible.

Please do TC we need to at least put the bug in Reynolds ear if nothing else, so he can be a bit more aware of the possibility that Jenkins is a stink bomb waiting to explode.

Team Clark
10-01-2008, 09:37 PM
Please do TC we need to at least put the bug in Reynolds ear if nothing else, so he can be a bit more aware of the possibility that Jenkins is a stink bomb waiting to explode.

I think he knows. He has a limited budget. Jenkins works REAL cheap. There are about 10,000 better candidates who would work for 19k per year.

Mario-Rijo
10-02-2008, 05:32 AM
I think he knows. He has a limited budget. Jenkins works REAL cheap. There are about 10,000 better candidates who would work for 19k per year.

And this right here is why I am still a bit pessimistic about ownership. If they are still paying with pesos how can we ever expect to really compete. Do the right thing Bob and start paying for good coaching throughout. Hopefully Walt is willing, able and capable of fixing a great deal of this after next season.