This Date In Reds History (10/2/08): Past Lineups

[Big Klu]

25 years ago (1983), a 3-2 loss at the Astrodome in Houston.

Cincinnati
Dallas Williams lf
Kelly Paris 2b
Skeeter Barnes 1b
Duane Walker rf
Paul Householder cf
Steve Christmas c
Alex Treviño 3b
Tom Foley ss
Jeff Russell p

Houston
Jose Cruz lf
Scott Loucks cf
Kevin Bass rf
Denny Walling 3b
Tim Tolman 1b
Craig Reynolds 2b
George Bjorkman c
Bert Peña ss
Jeff Heathcock p


WP: Jeff Heathcock (2-1)
LP: Jeff Russell (4-5)
Sv: Frank DiPino (20)
HR: None.

OF Dallas Williams and reliever Ben Hayes both made their final major-league appearances in this game. The Reds concluded the season with a 74-88 record, finishing in sixth (last) place in the NL West. During the offseason, the Reds would fire manager Russ Nixon, and name Vern Rapp as the new manager.

[Big Klu]

20 years ago (1988), a 1-0 win at Riverfront Stadium vs. the Braves.

Atlanta
Ron Gant 3b
Jeff Blauser ss
Tommy Gregg lf
Dale Murphy rf
Ted Simmons 1b
Mark Lemke 2b
Bruce Benedict c
Terry Blocker cf
Jim Acker p

Cincinnati
Barry Larkin ss
Lenny Harris 3b
Paul O'Neill rf
Nick Esasky 1b
Van Snider lf
Herm Winningham cf
Jeff Reed c
Ron Oester 2b
Keith Brown p


WP: Keith Brown (2-1)
LP: Jim Acker (0-4)
Sv: John Franco (39)
HR: None.

Keith Brown, Rob Murphy, Rob Dibble, and John Franco combined on a six-hit shutout. Braves C/1B Ted Simmons made his final major-league appearance in this game. The Reds finished the season with an 87-74 record, good for second place in the NL West.

[Big Klu]

15 years ago (1993), a 3-1 loss at Riverfront vs. the Astros.

Houston
Casey Candaele 2b
Steve Finley cf
Kevin Bass rf
Luis Gonzalez lf
Chris Donnels 3b
Andujar Cedeño ss
Jim Lindeman 1b
Eddie Taubensee c
Mark Portugal p

Cincinnati
Thomas Howard cf
Jeff Branson 2b
Hal Morris 1b
Reggie Sanders rf
Chris Sabo 3b
Jack Daugherty lf
Dan Wilson c
Keith Kessinger ss
Larry Luebbers p


WP: Mark Portugal (18-4)
LP: Ross Powell (0-3)
Sv: Xavier Hernandez (9)
HR: None.

Mark Portugal and Xavier Hernandez combined on a five-hit shutout for the Astros.

[puca]

25 years ago (1983), a 3-2 loss at the Astrodome in Houston.

Cincinnati
Dallas Williams lf
Kelly Paris 2b
Skeeter Barnes 1b
Duane Walker rf
Paul Householder cf
Steve Christmas c
Alex Treviño 3b
Tom Foley ss
Jeff Russell p

Houston
Jose Cruz lf
Scott Loucks cf
Kevin Bass rf
Denny Walling 3b
Tim Tolman 1b
Craig Reynolds 2b
George Bjorkman c
Bert Peña ss
Jeff Heathcock p


WP: Jeff Heathcock (2-1)
LP: Jeff Russell (4-5)
Sv: Frank DiPino (20)
HR: None.

OF Dallas Williams and reliever Ben Hayes both made their final major-league appearances in this game. The Reds concluded the season with a 74-88 record, finishing in sixth (last) place in the NL West. During the offseason, the Reds would fire manager Russ Nixon, and name Vern Rapp as the new manager.


Well, if you can't win with THAT lineup, then I just don't know what to say. Clearly Nixon had to go.

[George Anderson]

Well, if you can't win with THAT lineup, then I just don't know what to say. Clearly Nixon had to go.

Nixon was the skipper Bobby Cox replaced in Atl.

a very long time ago.

[cumberlandreds]

I could be wrong,but IMO Nixon and Rapp were longtime employees of the Reds who were given a career achievement award in being named manager. Neither was very good. In fact Rapp didn't last a full season and was fired when Rose was brought back during the 1984 season.

[George Anderson]

I could be wrong,but IMO Nixon and Rapp were longtime employees of the Reds who were given a career achievement award in being named manager. Neither was very good. In fact Rapp didn't last a full season and was fired when Rose was brought back during the 1984 season.

If I had to guess, there were probally very few quality managers who wanted to come in and take over the 1982 Reds. Unless the Reds were going to pony up big cash for a big name manager which we know would never happen, they were probally stuck having to hire in house.

[Chip R]

If I had to guess, there were probally very few quality managers who wanted to come in and take over the 1982 Reds. Unless the Reds were going to pony up big cash for a big name manager which we know would never happen, they were probally stuck having to hire in house.


They were one year removed from having the best record in baseball and three years removed from a division title. It was still a plum job. The problem was the guy who was doing the hiring.

[cumberlandreds]

If I had to guess, there were probally very few quality managers who wanted to come in and take over the 1982 Reds. Unless the Reds were going to pony up big cash for a big name manager which we know would never happen, they were probally stuck having to hire in house.

IIRC, John McNamara started the 82 season as manager and got fired about half way through it. I assume Nixon took over then. But you are right in saying that a name manger would not have came to Cincinnati at that time.

[George Anderson]

They were one year removed from having the best record in baseball and three years removed from a division title. It was still a plum job. The problem was the guy who was doing the hiring.

This is a plum lineup???

C Alex Trevino
1B *Dan Driessen
2B #Ron Oester
3B Johnny Bench
SS Dave Concepcion
LF *Eddie Milner
CF Cesar Cedeno
RF #Paul Householder


Mario Soto
Bruce Berenyi
Frank Pastore
Bob Shirley
Tom Seaver

[Chip R]

This is a plum lineup???

C Alex Trevino
1B *Dan Driessen
2B #Ron Oester
3B Johnny Bench
SS Dave Concepcion
LF *Eddie Milner
CF Cesar Cedeno
RF #Paul Householder


Mario Soto
Bruce Berenyi
Frank Pastore
Bob Shirley
Tom Seaver


I didn't say the lineup was plum, just the job.

[George Anderson]

I didn't say the lineup was plum, just the job.

How was the job plum? The players that had the past success were long gone.

[cumberlandreds]

I didn't say the lineup was plum, just the job.

IMO,that plum turned into a lemon after the 1981 off season when Dick Wagner got rid of his outfield.

[Chip R]

How was the job plum? The players that had the past success were long gone.


For the reasons I stated earlier.

[George Anderson]

IMO,that plum turned into a lemon after the 1981 off season when Dick Wagner got rid of his outfield.

Yea I can't believe Billy Martin or Whitey Herzog didn't leap at the chance to manage the 1982 Reds. :)

[Chip R]

Yea I can't believe Billy Martin or Whitey Herzog didn't leap at the chance to manage the 1982 Reds. :)


I can since they were both employed by other teams at the time.

[George Anderson]

I can since they were both employed by other teams at the time.

I am pretty sure Martin or Herzog could have bought out the rest of their contract or waited till the end of the year to get that plum job and manage the likes of Householder, Trevino and Milner!!

[Chip R]

I am pretty sure Martin or Herzog could have bought out the rest of their contract or waited till the end of the year to get that plum job and manage the likes of Householder, Trevino and Milner!!


Riiiight. :rolleyes:

[Roy Tucker]

Hard to say if it was still a plum job by then.

The Reds still had the cachet of the BRM about them after their run in the '70's. They had a division title in 1979 and the infamous best record in baseball in the strike year of 1981. Then the train wreck happened in '82.

Reds fans were so used to winning, the season of '82 was viewed as just an bump in the road and they'd get back to their winning ways in '83. The job might have been plum-ish then.

But Dick Wagner had done a fine job of running the club into the ground so by the end of '83, I'd say the bloom was off the rose.

[westofyou]

I could be wrong,but IMO Nixon and Rapp were longtime employees of the Reds who were given a career achievement award in being named manager. Neither was very good. In fact Rapp didn't last a full season and was fired when Rose was brought back during the 1984 season.

Rapp was along time Card too and had his Howsam connections, Nixon was a local boy whose American Legion career was legendary in Cincinnati (IIRC he was honored during a WS game in 61??) Rapp was also a drill instructor sort and that played poorly with the young Reds.

[George Anderson]

Hard to say if it was still a plum job by then.

The Reds still had the cachet of the BRM about them after their run in the '70's. They had a division title in 1979 and the infamous best record in baseball in the strike year of 1981. Then the train wreck happened in '82.

Reds fans were so used to winning, the season of '82 was viewed as just an bump in the road and they'd get back to their winning ways in '83. The job might have been plum-ish then.

But Dick Wagner had done a fine job of running the club into the ground so by the end of '83, I'd say the bloom was off the rose.

I don't see how it could even resemble a plum job. Other than Soto and Concepcion the 1982 roster was a very bad one and not a roster with alot of young players with alot of potential. You can always look at the farm system to gauge the potential of the franchise but at the time it was very average at best. Not until much later in the 80's did the likes of Larkin, Davis, Dibble and O'Neil began to surface. You also had a very bad GM in Dick Wagner that you would have to answer to and deal with.

Bottom line is no quality manager was going to jump at the chance to manage the Reds during that period of time.

Replacing plums with prunes would be a better way to describe that job situation.