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dougdirt
11-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Cumberland can, so no, it wasn't. maybe not to the degree of Stubbs, but Dorn outhits stubbs by a country mile.

Cumberland can play it, but he can't play it like Stubbs or really even close and the Bats were looking for defense. In the playoffs, even in the minor leagues, defense and bullpen's seem to win. That is where they were going with it.

TRF
11-16-2008, 03:34 PM
It wasn't like Dorn in LF was going to hurt, and his bat might have gotten them further. So I guess it is either or. But you can bet where he was drafted played a role. to say it didn't is naive.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 03:37 PM
It wasn't like Dorn in LF was going to hurt, and his bat might have gotten them further. So I guess it is either or. But you can bet where he was drafted played a role. to say it didn't is naive.

Dorn to LF and Cumberland to CF rather than Stubbs to CF and Cumberland staying in LF hurts your defense at two positons rather than improving it at 1.

TRF
11-16-2008, 03:39 PM
Dorn to LF and Cumberland to CF rather than Stubbs to CF and Cumberland staying in LF hurts your defense at two positons rather than improving it at 1.


But improves your offense. and the difference between Dorn ans Stubbs at the plate is considerable.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 03:42 PM
But improves your offense. and the difference between Dorn ans Stubbs at the plate is considerable.

I am not sure it was really considering that Stubbs put up an .825 OPS in AAA while he was there. I see your point, but I see the organizations just as well. I think had Stubbs not existed, they would have promoted Heisey over Dorn as well.

TRF
11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
no doubt he did well, but there was nothing to really suggest he would.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 03:53 PM
no doubt he did well, but there was nothing to really suggest he would.

Which still is completely irrelevant because the Reds were going to promote a center fielder. If they had promoted Heisey rather than Stubbs, I really don't think we would be having this conversation at all.

TRF
11-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Which still is completely irrelevant because the Reds were going to promote a center fielder. If they had promoted Heisey rather than Stubbs, I really don't think we would be having this conversation at all.


I'd still think Dorn was more deserving of either player.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 04:02 PM
I'd still think Dorn was more deserving of either player.

Which is fine, but you wouldn't have been making a complaint against Heisey like you have against Stubbs.

TRF
11-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Heisey wasn't a top 10 pick. I'm slowly moving away from that stance, as I stated earlier, but only if the player is allowed to develop properly.

The Reds aren't doing that for Stubbs.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 04:20 PM
Heisey wasn't a top 10 pick. I'm slowly moving away from that stance, as I stated earlier, but only if the player is allowed to develop properly.

The Reds aren't doing that for Stubbs.

Did you watch Stubbs play at all this season? If not, then how do you have a clue whether or not Stubbs was allowed to develop properly?

TRF
11-16-2008, 04:41 PM
how many of his A+ and AA games did you watch? Because the stats say the Reds promoted a guy to AA who had 2 straight months of sub .700 OPS.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 04:43 PM
how many of his A+ and AA games did you watch? Because the stats say the Reds promoted a guy to AA who had 2 straight months of sub .700 OPS.

Probably as many as you did, but the Reds watched all of them. He went up a level and improved his offense. He was then promoted again and improved his offense again. Small sample sizes by both, but it was about 190 Plate Appearances between the two of them.

TRF
11-16-2008, 04:46 PM
Probably as many as you did, but the Reds watched all of them.

This is the crux of our disagreement. I'm not sold on the Reds ability to develop players. Scout them, yes. But develop them, not so much.

mth123
11-16-2008, 04:47 PM
Here is my take on this. Stubbs was probably jumped faster than should have been expected, but once he got there, he did well in a small sample. The original question was for an argument in favor of Stubbs starting off in AAA. I'd argue that this is an inexact science and I could see an argument either way, but Doug gave a satisfactory answer IMO. Stubbs did well at the end of 2008 in AAA. I think there is definitely an argument that you should start him off there in 2009 and leave him there unless/until he fails. He's not a pitcher or a teenager and doesn't need the kid gloves. Challenge the kid and see what happens.

RedlegJake
11-16-2008, 04:52 PM
Here is my take on this. Stubbs was probably jumped faster than should have been expected, but once he got there, he did well in a small sample. The original question was for an argument in favor of Stubbs starting off in AAA. I'd argue that this is an inexact science and I could see an argument either way, but Doug gave a satisfactory answer IMO. Stubbs did well at the end of 2008 in AAA. I think there is definitely an argument that you should start him off there in 2009 and leave him there unless/until he fails. He's not a pitcher or a teenager and doesn't need the kid gloves. Challenge the kid and see what happens.

Agreed. He showed he could play at AAA and not be overmatched. Now its time to find out if he can sustain that. Since the AFL is generally the best of the best prospects what his sample may show is that he's not nearly ready for the majors, which is really no surprise. It doesn't point the need to drop him back to AA however.

TRF
11-16-2008, 05:06 PM
My take is baseball is a game of adjustments. Stubbs hasn't shown he can make the adjustment after a league has seen him for an extended period of time. This is more on the Reds development path than Stubbs himself. FSL pitchers flat owned him for 2/3 of his time there. That's pretty telling.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 05:16 PM
My take is baseball is a game of adjustments. Stubbs hasn't shown he can make the adjustment after a league has seen him for an extended period of time. This is more on the Reds development path than Stubbs himself. FSL pitchers flat owned him for 2/3 of his time there. That's pretty telling.

So you figure every player should spend about a full season in a league, so players get adjusted to eachother?

TRF
11-16-2008, 05:22 PM
So you figure every player should spend about a full season in a league, so players get adjusted to eachother?
no, I suggest if they get owned for a sub .700 OPS for two straight months that perhaps they have more to learn at that level. Dunn was ready, Kearns took longer. Bruce was ready, Stubbs still isn't

RED VAN HOT
11-16-2008, 05:24 PM
My take on this is that true CF'ers and not like the other outfield positions. Defense counts first. The Reds were very patient with Dickerson. Had he not been a superior all around athlete, he would not have made it beyond AA. Brandon Syzmanski is another example. He has never shown that he can hit at any level, yet he actually played a little at AAA last year. I think they will show the same patience with Justin Reed for the same reason. CF is a position in itself. The idea is not to find a good hitting outfielder who can play CF. It is to find a true CF who can learn to contribute offensively.

TRF
11-16-2008, 05:26 PM
My take on this is that true CF'ers and not like the other outfield positions. Defense counts first. The Reds were very patient with Dickerson. Had he not been a superior all around athlete, he would not have made it beyond AA. Brandon Syzmanski is another example. He has never shown that he can hit at any level, yet he actually played a little at AAA last year. I think they will show the same patience with Justin Reed for the same reason. CF is a position in itself. The idea is not to find a good hitting outfielder who can play CF. It is to find a true CF who can learn to contribute offensively.

Except Dickerson pretty much has hit at every level.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 05:41 PM
Except Dickerson pretty much has hit at every level.

Dickerson has hit at every level but Stubbs hasn't? Here are their stats through their first go around in AAA:



BA OBP SLG OPS BB% K%
.269 .366 .415 .781 12.2 23.9
.261 .357 .403 .760 12.5 27.4


The difference? Stubbs was 23 through that stat line, Dickerson was 25. So why is it that Stubbs hasn't hit, but Dickerson has?

Scrap Irony
11-16-2008, 05:45 PM
Kevin Howard hit 400 or thereabouts a couple years ago in the AFL. He played a premium defensive position, much like Stubbs.

He hasn't seen the Show and has since bounced around more than a Superball.

In short, good AFL numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

Shouldn't, then, bad numbers be taken the same way?

Mario-Rijo
11-16-2008, 05:49 PM
Kevin Howard hit 400 or thereabouts a couple years ago in the AFL. He played a premium defensive position, much like Stubbs.

He hasn't seen the Show and has since bounced around more than a Superball.

In short, good AFL numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

Shouldn't, then, bad numbers be taken the same way?

True but Howard served his purpose in the AFL, he was dealt for a major leaguer. Of course that major leaguer was Tony Womack but we got more out of Howard than we would have if he had faltered in the AFL.

TRF
11-16-2008, 05:51 PM
Dickerson has hit at every level but Stubbs hasn't? Here are their stats through their first go around in AAA:



BA OBP SLG OPS BB% K%
.269 .366 .415 .781 12.2 23.9
.261 .357 .403 .760 12.5 27.4
The difference? Stubbs was 23 through that stat line, Dickerson was 25. So why is it that Stubbs hasn't hit, but Dickerson has?

Sample size. Doug, he didn't hit at Billings at all, was good for 2.5 months in the MWL, 1 month in the FSL out of three. Their stats look similar until you see how each has adjusted to their respective leagues. Had Stubbs stayed in the FSL, he was heading for a year of sub .700 OPS ball unless he adjusted. He was trending down in the Southern league to after an initial hot start of 1 game. his sample was small enough at AA that if you remove that ONE game his AA stats are nothing that screams promotion.

And here is the kicker, since defensively they are likely a wash, why was Stubbs promoted so aggressively while Dickerson was not? Draft slot had to play a role.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 06:05 PM
Sample size. Doug, he didn't hit at Billings at all, was good for 2.5 months in the MWL, 1 month in the FSL out of three. Their stats look similar until you see how each has adjusted to their respective leagues. Had Stubbs stayed in the FSL, he was heading for a year of sub .700 OPS ball unless he adjusted. He was trending down in the Southern league to after an initial hot start of 1 game. his sample was small enough at AA that if you remove that ONE game his AA stats are nothing that screams promotion.

And here is the kicker, since defensively they are likely a wash, why was Stubbs promoted so aggressively while Dickerson was not? Draft slot had to play a role.

Sample size? There are over 1300 PA there for Stubbs. Thats plenty a large enough sample. As for Stubbs heading for a sub .700 OPS in the FSL, he would have had to have had a .316 OPS over his next 200 PA to have a year under .700 OPS. Wasn't going to happen.

As for why Stubbs was promoted 'aggressively' its probably because he raised his walk rate and lowered his K rate from the previous year while in Sarasota while Dickerson saw his BB% lower, still have a high K% at 24.5, was hitting .236 and slugging .383 in Sarasota. Stubbs had a higher average, higher OBP, higher SLG, better walk rate and a better K rate at Sarsota, thus he got a mid season promotion and Dickerson didn't. It wasn't the draft slot that played a role, it was the fact that at age 23 in the FSL Stubbs put up way better numbers across the board than Dickerson did.

TRF
11-16-2008, 06:18 PM
Sample per level? too small to tell, yet you still cannot pose any argument for promoting him to AA based on his FSL numbers. And seeing as how he has been outhit by Dorn at EVERY LEVEL based on your reasoning, Dorn should be the starting LF in Cincinnati.

by the end of last year i mean.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 06:21 PM
Sample per level? too small to tell, yet you still cannot pose any argument for promoting him to AA based on his FSL numbers. And seeing as how he has been outhit by Dorn at EVERY LEVEL based on your reasoning, Dorn should be the starting LF in Cincinnati.

by the end of last year i mean.

Yeah, I can. He improved every aspect of his game from Dayton to Sarasota. He had a better OPS (in a tougher league to hit in), he lowered his strikeout rate, raised his walk rate and stole bases at a much better rate. Dorn has nothing to do with anything related to Drew Stubbs though, so I don't know why he was brought up. But you are right, Dorn probably should be starting in left field against RHP in Cincinnati unless someone better is brought in, or Edwin is moved to LF and continues to hit.

TRF
11-16-2008, 07:20 PM
I mention Dorn because they were drafted in the same year. His bat is so far ahead of Stubbs that he skipped the MWL altogether.

And you keep looking at Stubbs time in the FSL in the macro and seem to refuse to accept that he was OWNED in two of his three months there. Now had his dominant month been his third one, I'd grudgingly agree that he improved, but the fact is as his season progressed, he regressed at the plate. Same thing happened at AA too. The sample at AAA is far to small to make any projection of his ceiling.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 07:24 PM
I mention Dorn because they were drafted in the same year. His bat is so far ahead of Stubbs that he skipped the MWL altogether.

And you keep looking at Stubbs time in the FSL in the macro and seem to refuse to accept that he was OWNED in two of his three months there. Now had his dominant month been his third one, I'd grudgingly agree that he improved, but the fact is as his season progressed, he regressed at the plate. Same thing happened at AA too. The sample at AAA is far to small to make any projection of his ceiling.

He spent some time in that 4th month there and he OPS'd over 1.000 there. 30 some off PA, but his last 30 or so were pretty good.

TRF
11-16-2008, 07:30 PM
It was a week. That isn't enough time after two atrocious months to promote him.

dougdirt
11-16-2008, 07:38 PM
It was a week. That isn't enough time after two atrocious months to promote him.

Atorcious on what level though? His line drive, walk and strikeout rates were all still quite good. From May through his promotion he walked 39 times (15.7% of the time he stepped to the plate), struck out 54 times (21.7% of the time he stepped to the plate) and he hit a line drive 24% of the time he put it in play. None of that tells me his months were atrocious. He had a very high walk rate, a very high line drive rate (he was leading the league when he left) and a very respectable strikeout rate during the time you think he was atrocious. The things he can control just disagree with the notion that he was atrocious.

Redman15
11-17-2008, 02:00 PM
Valaika hitting 5th at SS. Stubby is hitting 7th in LF. Turner is in the 9 spot at 2B.
Hansen in on the mound for Mesa today. So far he has been the best arm in the AFL this year.

Redman15
11-17-2008, 04:17 PM
Javs getting pounded 13-0 in the B5. Hanson has struck out 10 in 5 innings.
He has given up 1 hit (Turner) and walked 2. Watson is in the game for the Javs.
Watson comes in and gets a DP to end the inning.

medford
11-17-2008, 04:57 PM
So I haven't checked the minors forums in a week or 2. Good to see somethings never change. doug: Stubbs has talent.... TRF: Stubbs sucks.... :)

BRM
11-17-2008, 05:07 PM
So I haven't checked the minors forums in a week or 2. Good to see somethings never change. doug: Stubbs has talent.... TRF: Stubbs sucks.... :)

You left out this one.

OBM: Loves every prospect that wears sweatbands.

Redman15
11-17-2008, 05:21 PM
Javs lose 13-6. Valaika 1-4. Stubbs 1-4,HR. Turner 1-4.
Watson 1.2 IP, 1 H, BB, K, 0 Er.

OnBaseMachine
11-17-2008, 05:33 PM
Toothpicks, too, BRM.

Valaika's hit was a double. Oh, and good to see Stubbs homer.

Tommy Hanson is a stud. The Braves did the right thing by refusing to part with him in a deal for Peavy.

TRF
11-17-2008, 06:11 PM
So I haven't checked the minors forums in a week or 2. Good to see somethings never change. doug: Stubbs has talent.... TRF: Stubbs sucks.... :)

not sucks.

Plate skills challenged. gotta be PC.

medford
11-18-2008, 01:42 PM
po-tay-toes..po-tah-toes

Wonder if you 2 would be interested in a Stubbs based wager. Say Drew post over a certain stat line over his first 250 at bats and TRF has to say something along the line Doug is the smartest guy on redszone on his comment line for the rest of the major league season, if he post something under that stat line, doug has to post the opposite for TRF. Give us all something really worth tracking? :) Of course the question would be what is the median stat line gonna look like?

BRM
11-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Plate skills challenged. I love that. :laugh:

dougdirt
11-18-2008, 03:02 PM
po-tay-toes..po-tah-toes

Wonder if you 2 would be interested in a Stubbs based wager. Say Drew post over a certain stat line over his first 250 at bats and TRF has to say something along the line Doug is the smartest guy on redszone on his comment line for the rest of the major league season, if he post something under that stat line, doug has to post the opposite for TRF. Give us all something really worth tracking? :) Of course the question would be what is the median stat line gonna look like?

First 250 bats mean nothing. I am much more concerned with how a guy will do over his MLB career.

Redman15
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Valaika is hitting 5th at SS and Viola is on the bump for the Javs.

TRF
11-18-2008, 04:07 PM
First 250 bats mean nothing. I am much more concerned with how a guy will do over his MLB career.

then 19 games at AAA mean squat too. you can't have it both ways.

how about final line at his highest minor league level this year barring injury?

I say a .700-.720 OPS. Though I really think it will be sub .700.

TRF
11-18-2008, 04:09 PM
Plate skills challenged. I love that. :laugh:

I'm trademarking it.

The average PSC player really needs a slick glove to maintain prospect status. But that only gets you so far. Ray Olmedo and Anderson Machado are perfect examples.

BRM
11-18-2008, 04:11 PM
then 19 games at AAA mean squat too. you can't have it both ways.

how about final line at his highest minor league level this year barring injury?

I say a .700-.720 OPS. Though I really think it will be sub .700.

You may want to put a minimum plate appearances threshold in there too. What if he only logs 100-150 plate appearances in Louisville? Not much to go on there.

dougdirt
11-18-2008, 04:11 PM
then 19 games at AAA mean squat too. you can't have it both ways.

how about final line at his highest minor league level this year barring injury?

I say a .700-.720 OPS. Though I really think it will be sub .700.

No way he OPS's under .720 this year in AAA if he has more than a handful of plate appearances.

As for having it both ways, I don't really see the correlation to my comment that I am worried about what a guy does in his major league career not in his first 200 major league at bats has anything to do with me liking his first 19 games in AAA.

TRF
11-18-2008, 04:23 PM
No way he OPS's under .720 this year in AAA if he has more than a handful of plate appearances.

As for having it both ways, I don't really see the correlation to my comment that I am worried about what a guy does in his major league career not in his first 200 major league at bats has anything to do with me liking his first 19 games in AAA.

prolly true, i only gave the post a cursory look.

so lets say he spends the entire season in the minors, no sept. callup.

I stick by my prediction. And by God, I'll happily eat crow if I am wrong, because in this case I really want to be wrong. But he's clearly a PSC player at this point. :)

Redman15
11-18-2008, 04:29 PM
Viola went 4 innings. His line was 4 inn, 5 H, 3 ER's, 2 BB, 4 k's. Fisher is on the bump now. Stubbs pinch hit and is playing RF. Javs trail 4-1 B6.

Redman15
11-18-2008, 06:24 PM
Javs lose 10-4. Fishers final line was 2.0 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 1 K.
Stubbs 0-1, BB, K. Valaika 0-4.

medford
11-18-2008, 10:15 PM
FWIW, I meant the first 250 at bats this season, assuming they come in the minors (AA or AAA)

Screwball
11-19-2008, 03:35 AM
po-tay-toes..po-tah-toes

Wonder if you 2 would be interested in a Stubbs based wager. Say Drew post over a certain stat line over his first 250 at bats and TRF has to say something along the line Doug is the smartest guy on redszone on his comment line for the rest of the major league season, if he post something under that stat line, doug has to post the opposite for TRF. Give us all something really worth tracking? :) Of course the question would be what is the median stat line gonna look like?


I don't see why this shouldn't be an avatar bet. Winner gets to pick the loser's avatar that he has to adorn until the end of the 2009 off-season.

I think the terms should be "Until Drew Stubbs is called up to the Majors, or until the 2009 MiL season ends, whichever comes first, shall decide the winner. Should Stubbs have an OPS above .700, Doug wins. Below .700, TRF wins."

Are you both up to it?

Redman15
11-19-2008, 08:02 PM
Plenty of Reds in the line up tonight for the Javs. Henry is leading off and playing RF.
Turner hitting 2nd playing 2nd. Valaika is hitting 5th at SS. Stubbs is hitting 7th in LF.

dougdirt
11-19-2008, 11:02 PM
Good showing so far from our guys.

Sean Henry - 2 for 4 with a double
Justin Turner - 1 for 2
Chris Valaika - 1 for 3
Drew Stubbs - 1 for 2 with a double and a walk.

dougdirt
11-19-2008, 11:47 PM
Final lines from todays game.


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Henry RF 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 .327
Turner 2B 3 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 .321
Valaika SS 5 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 .296
Stubbs LF 3 1 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 .200

BoydsOfSummer
11-19-2008, 11:57 PM
How can Stubbs have one hit with two doubles and a triple? Wow--he might really be breaking out!

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 12:03 AM
Robert Manuel also threw a 1-2-3 inning with 2 K's.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 12:06 AM
How can Stubbs have one hit with two doubles and a triple? Wow--he might really be breaking out!

stupid coding.... or stupid me, one of the two.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 12:11 AM
BTW, tomorrow is the last game for the Javelinas. After that we'll just have the Caribbean Leagues to follow.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 11:31 AM
Stubbs last blog entry:

Wrapping Things Up

Greetings one final time everyone from the Arizona Fall League. We have endured a long seven weeks of additional baseball, and we're now faced with just 2 remaining games. It has been a great experience for me to play in this league because of the stiff competition and valuable time to soak up more of this game. Although I think most everyone is somewhat worn down from a combination of the regular season and the fall games, we are grateful to have the opportunity to participate in such a premier venue. Following these last games, I will be headed back home to Texas where I will look forward to spending the Thanksgiving holiday with my family and friends. I am really excited about this because it has been 2-3 months since I have been able to see them. I think one person looking forward to it more than myself would be my mother; so mom, I'll see you soon!

Anyway, the past week or so, many of us have been trying to find things to do to break up the daily monotony of playing and merely relaxing at home. Chris Valaika and I decided to go to a Jason Mraz concert last Sunday night, and this allowed us to shake things up a little. We had a good time listening to the talented Mr. Mraz, and we even ran into other guys from the fall league! Come to find out, Gordon Beckham of the Saguaros was sitting just a few seats away from us, so we were able to visit during breaks in the show. Since we had not done anything of this nature upon arriving out here, it was nice to experience something new.

I want to take this time to thank Jonathan Mayo of mlb.com for allowing me the opportunity to participate in this fall league blogging. It was my first blog experience, and with the support of all you fans, it has been a really neat thing for me to be a part of. Hopefully, I'll get another chance to do something similar in the future. As I said, it's been a pleasure to keep everyone up to date with things happening out here, and I wish all a happy holiday season!

-Drew

http://aflreds.mlblogs.com/

Redman15
11-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Javs lead 12-3 in the B6. Turner is 2-4,2R,SB. Valaika 3-4,2B,R,RBI.

schmidty622
11-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Stubbs last blog entry:

Wrapping Things Up

Greetings one final time everyone from the Arizona Fall League. We have endured a long seven weeks of additional baseball, and we're now faced with just 2 remaining games. It has been a great experience for me to play in this league because of the stiff competition and valuable time to soak up more of this game. Although I think most everyone is somewhat worn down from a combination of the regular season and the fall games, we are grateful to have the opportunity to participate in such a premier venue. Following these last games, I will be headed back home to Texas where I will look forward to spending the Thanksgiving holiday with my family and friends. I am really excited about this because it has been 2-3 months since I have been able to see them. I think one person looking forward to it more than myself would be my mother; so mom, I'll see you soon!

Anyway, the past week or so, many of us have been trying to find things to do to break up the daily monotony of playing and merely relaxing at home. Chris Valaika and I decided to go to a Jason Mraz concert last Sunday night, and this allowed us to shake things up a little. We had a good time listening to the talented Mr. Mraz, and we even ran into other guys from the fall league! Come to find out, Gordon Beckham of the Saguaros was sitting just a few seats away from us, so we were able to visit during breaks in the show. Since we had not done anything of this nature upon arriving out here, it was nice to experience something new.
I want to take this time to thank Jonathan Mayo of mlb.com for allowing me the opportunity to participate in this fall league blogging. It was my first blog experience, and with the support of all you fans, it has been a really neat thing for me to be a part of. Hopefully, I'll get another chance to do something similar in the future. As I said, it's been a pleasure to keep everyone up to date with things happening out here, and I wish all a happy holiday season!

-Drew

http://aflreds.mlblogs.com/

Stubbs is a nice guy with a terrible taste in music.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Final AFL game:

Turner: 3-for-5 home run (#1)
Valaika: 3-for-4 double

Redman15
11-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Javs go out on a winning note 13-6. Turner homered in his last AFL at bat to raise his avg to .337 and was 3-5,3R,HR,RBI,SB. Valaika had a good day too, raising his avg to .311,he was 3-4,R,2B,RBI. I think the Reds players did a very good job overall representing the organization. Kudos to Valaika,Henry,Stubbs,Turner, Fisher,Manuel,Watson and Viola.

Redman15
11-20-2008, 07:10 PM
Arizona Fall Leagues Final Stats.
Avg OBP SLG OPS
Turner .337 .362 .449 .811
Henry .327 .389 .429 .817
Valaika .311 .346 .437 .783
Stubbs .200 .306 .329 .636

W L ERA SV
Viola 2 2 8.20 0
Fisher 0 1 10.80 3
Watson 1 1 9.95 0
Manuel 1 0 1.98 0

BoydsOfSummer
11-20-2008, 10:02 PM
How many productive outs did Stubbs have? That is one ugly final line.

JayBruceFan
11-20-2008, 11:06 PM
Look at the OPS!

Time to send him to a radar tower in Alaska

:D