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View Full Version : RH Bat or LH Bat



kpresidente
10-07-2008, 07:59 PM
Check out the splits last year...

I consider and .850 OPS the minimum you want in the heart of your order. That being said, this is a list of the over .850 OPS players we had (minus Dunn/Griffey) last season:

VS. LH
Phillips - .944
Encarnacion - .908
Keppinger - .901
Votto - .862

VS. RH
Votto - .880
Bruce - .869


I think we need a LH bat.

RedLakerFan24
10-07-2008, 08:03 PM
I Think We Need Manny

Orenda
10-07-2008, 08:04 PM
i think we need better overall hitters

redsfandan
10-07-2008, 08:07 PM
ok if you want a lefty how about ibanez? he has consistently put up 20+ hr/100+ rbi seasons with a ba between .280 and .295. he also did that without a hitters park to call home and he would be alot cheaper than manny, odornez, abreu, beltre....

kpresidente
10-07-2008, 08:09 PM
ok if you want a lefty how about ibanez? he has consistently put up 20+ hr/100+ rbi seasons with a ba between .280 and .295. he also did that without a hitters park to call home and he would be alot cheaper than manny, odornez, abreu, beltre....

I've thought about him.

redsfandan
10-07-2008, 08:11 PM
I've thought about him.

and?

kpresidente
10-07-2008, 08:13 PM
and?

Will he sign a relatively short term contract?

redsfandan
10-07-2008, 08:16 PM
well hopefully walt will find out

ChatterRed
10-07-2008, 09:35 PM
I'd try and sign Ibanez, and sign a RH power bat. Stick both in LF and RF and move Bruce back to CF. We need both.

Stephenk29
10-07-2008, 09:55 PM
Always thought Ibanez was very underrated. He's a modal of consistancy it seems.

redsfandan
10-08-2008, 01:18 AM
yep and he'll be some teams underrated leftfielder next year. now i wouldn't want him long term cuz he's 36 and we have some decent options for left field in the farm system but for 1 or 2 years he could definitely work.

757690
10-08-2008, 03:33 PM
Check out the splits last year...

I consider and .850 OPS the minimum you want in the heart of your order. That being said, this is a list of the over .850 OPS players we had (minus Dunn/Griffey) last season:

VS. LH
Phillips - .944
Encarnacion - .908
Keppinger - .901
Votto - .862

VS. RH
Votto - .880
Bruce - .869


I think we need a LH bat.


Good stuff.

I think what Jocketty is looking for next year, is a big bat to hit cleanup in between Votto and Bruce. One option would be to hit EE or Phillips there against lefties, and then get a big leftie who crushes righties. However, that is only good for the starting pitcher, who usually only pitches to the lineup twice maybe three times. This would leave the Reds vulnerable to a lefty when three lefties are in a row, or to a righty against Phillips or EE when they are in the cleanup slot.

A better option would be to just get a solid, productive bat to hit in between Votto and Bruce all season long, who hits both lefties and righties well. That more often is the case with RH bats. Phillips and EE are rare examples of RH bats who can't hit righties.

Bring in Ordonez, Holiday, or even a Casey Blake, who hit as well against lefties as righties, and you don't have to switch around the order, but more importantly, you don't have to worry about what pitcher gets brought in in the late innings.

ChatterRed
10-08-2008, 03:45 PM
Ordonez

vs. LH pitchers
.328 in 137 at-bats

vs. RH pitchers
.314 in 424 at-bats

redsfandan
10-08-2008, 05:08 PM
Ibanez:
Breakdown AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 197 20 60 13 2 7 37 19 3 41 0 0 .305 .371 .497 .868
vs. Right 438 65 126 30 1 16 73 45 0 69 2 4 .288 .352 .470 .822

757690
10-08-2008, 05:43 PM
Ordonez

vs. LH pitchers
.328 in 137 at-bats

vs. RH pitchers
.314 in 424 at-bats


Ibanez:
Breakdown
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 197 20 60 13 2 7 37 19 3 41 0 0 .305 .371 .497 .868
vs. Right 438 65 126 30 1 16 73 45 0 69 2 4 .288 .352 .470 .822


Matt Holiday


Split BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip tOPS+
+-+------------+----+----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
vs RHP as RH .325 .386 .565 .950 .360 102
vs LHP as RH .297 .386 .506 .892 .330 92

Any of these guys seem to be good fits.

RedLakerFan24
10-08-2008, 08:54 PM
what about Beltre and Moving Encarncion to left

The Operator
10-09-2008, 12:31 PM
How about Mark Texieria, while moving Votto to LF.

A pipe dream, I know.

JayBruceFan
10-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Sign Jim Thome

RedLakerFan24
10-09-2008, 09:27 PM
i rather sign Manny than Thome

kpresidente
10-10-2008, 11:01 AM
I think the best player to add, in a totally hypothetical world and on paper, might be Adam Dunn.

Which is odd for me, because I supported trading him. However, some things have changed since then. Before we traded Dunn, we had nothing in CF, nothing at CA, and no good options for a #5 starter.

Guys like Dickerson and Hanigan having a lot of success in the 2nd half of the season, plus playing well in their ML stints, changes the equation. Owings could pass as a 5th starter as well. All that frees up money, which was my big issue with Dunn.

tommycash
10-10-2008, 11:18 AM
This team needs a RH bat. Too many times in the past, we have had to bat Phillips and/or Encarnacion 4th. Do you want to protect Jay Bruce? Get him a RH bat behind him. Phillips and Encarnacion need to be as far from 3,4,5 as possible. I would'nt mind if we brought Dunn back, but that would put our best hitters (Bruce, Votto, Dunn) in a terrible spot. Guess who would hit in between them at eith 3, 4, or 5? Phillips and Encarnacion. Get a RH hitter in the lineup. You can't throw a stat like what our team did against RH and LH pitchers and exclude Dunn and Griffey. Dunn needed a RH power bat in front or behind him to compliment his abilities. Griffey did not compliment Dunn very well. I want a power bat in that LF spot, but I don't know who we can afford to get. I do know that we will have some choices, but I think that if we hit Dickerson first (LH), Votto or Bruce will have to fill that 3 spot, and I want a power hitting RH to fill that 4 spot. If it is Holliday, Ordonez, Burrell, or Bradley that is fine, but I want a RH power hitter.

The Operator
10-10-2008, 12:28 PM
I don't really understand why everyone is so dead set on the idea that there HAS to be a right handed bat added. In my mind, there just needs to be quality hitting at as many positions as possible.

If hitter A OPS' .950 and hitter B OPS' .800, but hitter A is left handed where as hitter B is right handed, give me hitter A every day of the week.

Would I prefer a right handed hitter? Yes, but I would never acquire an inferior right handed hitter if a better option was available who bats left handed. If you fill your lineup with good hitters that don't give away atbats by hacking at everything they see, the whole LH/RH problem isn't that big of a deal.

That being said, their does not to be offense added to this team, I'm just not prejudiced as to which side of the plate it bats from.

kpresidente
10-10-2008, 12:34 PM
This team needs a RH bat. Too many times in the past, we have had to bat Phillips and/or Encarnacion 4th. Do you want to protect Jay Bruce? Get him a RH bat behind him. Phillips and Encarnacion need to be as far from 3,4,5 as possible. I would'nt mind if we brought Dunn back, but that would put our best hitters (Bruce, Votto, Dunn) in a terrible spot. Guess who would hit in between them at eith 3, 4, or 5? Phillips and Encarnacion. Get a RH hitter in the lineup. You can't throw a stat like what our team did against RH and LH pitchers and exclude Dunn and Griffey. Dunn needed a RH power bat in front or behind him to compliment his abilities. Griffey did not compliment Dunn very well. I want a power bat in that LF spot, but I don't know who we can afford to get. I do know that we will have some choices, but I think that if we hit Dickerson first (LH), Votto or Bruce will have to fill that 3 spot, and I want a power hitting RH to fill that 4 spot. If it is Holliday, Ordonez, Burrell, or Bradley that is fine, but I want a RH power hitter.

Why split them up? Why not just have different line-ups based who's pitching? I don't care if you have 3 LH hitters in a row if you're facing a RHP. Even if they have one AB late against a LHP, your percentages are still better than they would be if you split them up throughout the lineup every day. I want Phillips batting cleanup against a LHP. Even in the situation I mentioned earlier, his OPS averages out to .875 throughout the game.

kpresidente
10-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I don't really understand why everyone is so dead set on the idea that there HAS to be a right handed bat added. In my mind, there just needs to be quality hitting at as many positions as possible.

If hitter A OPS' .950 and hitter B OPS' .800, but hitter A is left handed where as hitter B is right handed, give me hitter A every day of the week.

Well, yeah, but a .950 OPS hitter costs a lot more than an .800 hitter. You have to manage your resources.

The Operator
10-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Well, yeah, but a .950 OPS hitter costs a lot more than an .800 hitter. You have to manage your resources.Very true.

But, this team needs a .900+ OPS machine, in a bad way. The Reds already have guys that can OPS in the .800-ish range, what the team is lacking is a truly dominant middle-of-the-order threat. If the choice was between, say, Pat Burrell or Mark Texieria, both of whom will cost quite a bit of money, I'd take Tex every day of the week, although it's not exactly a LH/RH argument there since Tex is a switch hitter. But that's the main point I'm trying to make.

gedred69
10-12-2008, 08:49 PM
Rather than pay for another LH bat, I'd say sit tight and see how close Dorn is to being MLB ready. The Reds have kept him under the radar long enough...

kpresidente
10-12-2008, 09:03 PM
Rather than pay for another LH bat, I'd say sit tight and see how close Dorn is to being MLB ready. The Reds have kept him under the radar long enough...

I'm big on Dorn, which is why I want a one or two year rental, at or around $10 million. That leaves enough for a big-name pitcher. Holliday fits that bill, but will cost a lot as far as prospects.

kpresidente
10-12-2008, 09:09 PM
what about Beltre and Moving Encarncion to left

Here's my thing...and I feel like I beat the platoon thing to death, but I could generate a higher OPS by signing Russell Branyon and platooning him with Keppinger, than I would get from Beltre. And I could do it for about 1/10th the cost. It's not the same defensively, but still and upgrade over Encarnacion.

UPRedsFan
10-12-2008, 10:27 PM
Dorn? His numbers don't look that good.

What about Yonder? There's our RH power bat. Maybe not next year though.

jnwohio
10-13-2008, 01:05 AM
Dorn? His numbers don't look that good.

What about Yonder? There's our RH power bat. Maybe not next year though.

I don't think Yonder is going to be anybody's RH power bat any time soon unless they teach him to bat right handed in the minors. He is a lefty swinger.

JayBruceFan
10-13-2008, 01:03 PM
Jim Thome is a good fit if he can still play first.

Short porch in right and the right center gap would lead to a monster season for him.

Votto could play left if needed and if he can.

kpresidente
10-13-2008, 01:56 PM
Dorn? His numbers don't look that good.

They're the same as Votto's numbers, although he's a year older at the same level.

RedLakerFan24
10-13-2008, 02:49 PM
i would trade for delmon young and adrian beltre

Dikerson
Phillips
Votto
Beltre
Bruce
Young
Gonzalez
Hanigan

UPRedsFan
10-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Dorn? His numbers don't look that good.

What about Yonder? There's our RH power bat. Maybe not next year though.

Oh. Could have sworn he was right handed. Anyway I still have more hope for him than Dorn. I'm just not impressed by Dorn's numbers.

gedred69
10-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Oh. Could have sworn he was right handed. Anyway I still have more hope for him than Dorn. I'm just not impressed by Dorn's numbers.

Keep in mind, Dorn missed 5 weeks at Chattanooga from a serious gash in his leg going after a line drive. (Doug has already gone on record as to Dorn being a definate upgrade defensively to Dunn). Then, extrapolate him to a full season, and you got a 35HR, .270-.280 hitter. That doesn't make you think he could be a piece to the puzzle? But, then you thought Yonder was a RH bat, so you probably didn't realize Dorn missed more than a month of his season.

reds2221
10-14-2008, 07:32 AM
I like Ibanez as a possible two year solution. His OBP has been in the 350's for the past few years and was at .371 against lefties last year like 757690 pointed out. He is a very good option for us right now.

redsfandan
10-14-2008, 08:40 AM
one concern i have about ibanez is that he's played his entire career in the AL and at 36 may not want to start over in the NL. i still think he's worth a shot but that underscores why we need to talk to any available decent bats so we're not left out in the cold.

Hondo
10-17-2008, 07:22 PM
i would trade for delmon young and adrian beltre

Dikerson
Phillips
Votto
Beltre
Bruce
Young
Gonzalez
Hanigan

Beltre? No way dude...

redsfandan
10-17-2008, 07:27 PM
Beltre? No way dude...

no way? can you explain why you are so against him or do we have to guess?

redsfandan
10-28-2008, 06:50 PM
Angels declined outfielder Garret Anderson's $14 million option for 2009. (he's a leftie)

Emin3mShady07
10-28-2008, 07:04 PM
Jim Thome is a good fit if he can still play first.

Short porch in right and the right center gap would lead to a monster season for him.

Votto could play left if needed and if he can.

Thome had a team option for '09 that became guaranteed when he reached 1100 PAs over last year and this year I think. It doesn't matter what it was, his option is now guaranteed and the reds would have to trade to get him.

Emin3mShady07
10-28-2008, 07:09 PM
one concern i have about ibanez is that he's played his entire career in the AL and at 36 may not want to start over in the NL. i still think he's worth a shot but that underscores why we need to talk to any available decent bats so we're not left out in the cold.

I don't think the league he plays in will have any effect. Ibanez is not a pitcher and I think he would be happy to hit in a place like Great American as opposed to Safeco. If Ibanez comes cheaply then the reds would also have the option to upgrade on the infield an potentially sign a guy like Furcal. I am pretty sure Ibanez could slide over to right with bruce moving to center and EE moving to left. Keppinger would take over at 3rd and the reds infield defense is greatly improved and they add two players that are decent hitters. But this all depends on how much money Ibanez wants and how much money furcal wants.

schmidty622
10-28-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't think the league he plays in will have any effect. Ibanez is not a pitcher and I think he would be happy to hit in a place like Great American as opposed to Safeco. If Ibanez comes cheaply then the reds would also have the option to upgrade on the infield an potentially sign a guy like Furcal. I am pretty sure Ibanez could slide over to right with bruce moving to center and EE moving to left. Keppinger would take over at 3rd and the reds infield defense is greatly improved and they add two players that are decent hitters. But this all depends on how much money Ibanez wants and how much money furcal wants.

Why not just play Ibanez in left, Bruce in Right, and let Dickerson go for it in center?