Peavy Available?!? - noted from the ORG

[BLEEDS]

Sources saying Pads HAVE to cut $20M off their payroll, and are dangling Peavy and Greene.

Tons of trade options being thrown around:
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72136

What would I give up?

Cueto
BP
Bailey/Maloney (one or both)
Stubbs/Frazier (one or both)
FODDER 1
FODDER 2

for

Peavy
Greene
Giles


SD needs pitching period, even with Peavy, so we give them Cueto - cheap and potential TOR guy, and Bailey and/or Maloney - cheap and, well, cheap potential MOR/BOR guys.

Sure our payroll would increase by about $20M, but we just solved our SS (defense anyway), LF, and SP problems.

Giles was a good target regardless, as he could be a 1-2 year interim solution guy. Greene can at least pick it at SS, and even Duhsty wouldn't be tempted to bat this guy at the top of the lineup.

Peavy's salary is only $8M in 2009, but kicks in his 3yr/$52M extension after that:
2010: $15M
2011: $16M
2012: $17M
2013: $22M($4M buyout)

Run a lineup out there for 2009 like this:

CF Dickerson
2B Keppinger
1B Votto
LF Giles
RF Bruce
3B EE
C Hanigan
SS Greene/Agon (whoever's healthy)


Set us up for 2010:

CF Dickerson/TBD
2B Keppinger
1B Votto
LF EE
RF Bruce
3B Alonso
SS TBD
C Hanigan


Thoughts?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[BEETTLEBUG]

Don't want B. Giles just the other two for what kind of deal?

[TheBigLebowski]

I'm not sure I like that deal. We're gutting our farm system for a high-priced arm who is just about to start the downturn in his career and two other guys with high price tags that don't match their production. I may be in the minority here but, any deal that nets us Peavy in exhange for a guy who may be his superior in 1-2 years in Cueto would upset me.

[757690]

That is about what it would take to get Peavy, Giles and Greene, if you exchanged fodder with real prospects like Dorn and Valaika. But I would rather the Reds concentrate on getting the big power bat for the middle of the lineup. Giles might be a good choice for a year or two until some of the Reds minor league hitters develop, but with this package you are giving most of those guys up, so you would have nothing after he leaves.
Peavy would be a great addition, but I like the Reds rotation going into next year, and see no need to gut the farm system to get another pitcher, no matter how good he is.

My money is still on Maggs in LF for the Reds next year as the main move by Jocketty.

[ChatterRed]

Interesting.

I think either Cueto or Volquez with 1 good prospect and another middling prospect should be enough. I know Cueto and Volquez aren't Peavy..........but they're two of the most promising young pitchers in the majors right now. Trading one of them and then 4 or 5 other players for Peavy wouldn't be equitable, IMHO.

[BLEEDS]

I'm not sure I like that deal. We're gutting our farm system for a high-priced arm who is just about to start the downturn in his career and two other guys with high price tags that don't match their production. I may be in the minority here but, any deal that nets us Peavy in exhange for a guy who may be his superior in 1-2 years in Cueto would upset me.

You seriously think Cueto will be Peavy's SUPERIOR in 1-2 years?!?! You have GOT to be kidding!

Peavy is 27, and is just entering his PEAK years, he is nowhere near his downturn. We're talking about a PROVEN commodity here - 200 innnings, 200K's, under 3.0 ERA and under 1.20 WHIP. Even his "OFF" year of 2006 when he had a 4.09 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP is something we only DREAM and WISH Cueto will get to within a year or two.

Remarkable.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[BLEEDS]

That is about what it would take to get Peavy, Giles and Greene, if you exchanged fodder with real prospects like Dorn and Valaika. But I would rather the Reds concentrate on getting the big power bat for the middle of the lineup. Giles might be a good choice for a year or two until some of the Reds minor league hitters develop, but with this package you are giving most of those guys up, so you would have nothing after he leaves.
Peavy would be a great addition, but I like the Reds rotation going into next year, and see no need to gut the farm system to get another pitcher, no matter how good he is.

My money is still on Maggs in LF for the Reds next year as the main move by Jocketty.

I don't think we need to GUT the system, and when I refer to FODDER, I'm talking A and AA prospects that aren't within 2-3 years of MLB. The Pad's are going to want to get CHEAP and YOUNG, so no more than one BP type contract - to placate fans who will be up in arms over the trade, you can say we got ONE major MLB player - but mostly young guys with potential and 3-4 years of development before hitting Arbitration. Basically they want to model the TB Rays/Oakland A's.

We can give them Cueto - who will be young and cheap for the next 3-4 years, and POTENTIALLY be a TOR guy, and a couple other AAAA pitching prospects.
Bailey and Maloney aren't anything other than #6 SP's, I like Owings potential better than those guys combined.
Stubbs is a fringe prospect for us, but he can be sold as a "former first round pick" and potentially great defensive CF prospect.
Giving up one of the many 3b/1b/Lf prospects we had can't really hurt us, since we have so many, so take your pick of Frazier/Dorn/Valaika and throw one in.

Greene is a salary dump, pure and simple. Is he worth $6.5M ?!?! HECK NO, but he's worth taking on for Peavy. Same goes for Giles, although I think he has way more value than Greene, especially ST. $9M for one year?!?!? Then we can have TONS of cash for 2009, when the FA pool is much grander all around.

Running Peavy out every 5th day, for the next 5 years, is going to bring more dividends than getting a C or a SS will that's for sure. Giles gives us time to figure out the EE/Votto/Alonso/take your pick from AAA options at 1B/3B/LF instead of forcing the issue, or trading for Holliday/Ordonez/whomever, because you can pretty much count on Giles heading off into the sunset in a year or two.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[wojo1025]

You mean the Jake Peavy with the career 3.80 ERA away from the greatest pitcher's park in the world? I'll pass.

[BEETTLEBUG]

Don't want Giles he said he wants to stay on West Coast and he has that right. 10 and 5 you know.

[Farnsie]

seen a couple of proposals for acquiring Peavy and most of 'em seems to involve Cueto. That's... something I wouldn't agree with. I'm just not that convinced with Peavy away from home and no matter how good Cueto turns out to be I'm willing to take a chance with him. Although I'd like to see Peavy in a Reds uniform, not just at the cost of Cueto or Volquez.

[Hondo]

Give them anyone not named Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Edinson Volquez...

Make it Happen!

[Hondo]

I don't think we need to GUT the system, and when I refer to FODDER, I'm talking A and AA prospects that aren't within 2-3 years of MLB. The Pad's are going to want to get CHEAP and YOUNG, so no more than one BP type contract - to placate fans who will be up in arms over the trade, you can say we got ONE major MLB player - but mostly young guys with potential and 3-4 years of development before hitting Arbitration. Basically they want to model the TB Rays/Oakland A's.

We can give them Cueto - who will be young and cheap for the next 3-4 years, and POTENTIALLY be a TOR guy, and a couple other AAAA pitching prospects.
Bailey and Maloney aren't anything other than #6 SP's, I like Owings potential better than those guys combined.
Stubbs is a fringe prospect for us, but he can be sold as a "former first round pick" and potentially great defensive CF prospect.
Giving up one of the many 3b/1b/Lf prospects we had can't really hurt us, since we have so many, so take your pick of Frazier/Dorn/Valaika and throw one in.

Greene is a salary dump, pure and simple. Is he worth $6.5M ?!?! HECK NO, but he's worth taking on for Peavy. Same goes for Giles, although I think he has way more value than Greene, especially ST. $9M for one year?!?!? Then we can have TONS of cash for 2009, when the FA pool is much grander all around.

Running Peavy out every 5th day, for the next 5 years, is going to bring more dividends than getting a C or a SS will that's for sure. Giles gives us time to figure out the EE/Votto/Alonso/take your pick from AAA options at 1B/3B/LF instead of forcing the issue, or trading for Holliday/Ordonez/whomever, because you can pretty much count on Giles heading off into the sunset in a year or two.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


No Doubt!

If ya have to take Green's Salary to get Peavy. You do it! Just like when Boston took Mike Lowell on to get Josh Beckett...

Please Walt! Please!

[757690]

I don't think we need to GUT the system, and when I refer to FODDER, I'm talking A and AA prospects that aren't within 2-3 years of MLB. The Pad's are going to want to get CHEAP and YOUNG, so no more than one BP type contract - to placate fans who will be up in arms over the trade, you can say we got ONE major MLB player - but mostly young guys with potential and 3-4 years of development before hitting Arbitration. Basically they want to model the TB Rays/Oakland A's.

We can give them Cueto - who will be young and cheap for the next 3-4 years, and POTENTIALLY be a TOR guy, and a couple other AAAA pitching prospects.
Bailey and Maloney aren't anything other than #6 SP's, I like Owings potential better than those guys combined.
Stubbs is a fringe prospect for us, but he can be sold as a "former first round pick" and potentially great defensive CF prospect.
Giving up one of the many 3b/1b/Lf prospects we had can't really hurt us, since we have so many, so take your pick of Frazier/Dorn/Valaika and throw one in.

Greene is a salary dump, pure and simple. Is he worth $6.5M ?!?! HECK NO, but he's worth taking on for Peavy. Same goes for Giles, although I think he has way more value than Greene, especially ST. $9M for one year?!?!? Then we can have TONS of cash for 2009, when the FA pool is much grander all around.

Running Peavy out every 5th day, for the next 5 years, is going to bring more dividends than getting a C or a SS will that's for sure. Giles gives us time to figure out the EE/Votto/Alonso/take your pick from AAA options at 1B/3B/LF instead of forcing the issue, or trading for Holliday/Ordonez/whomever, because you can pretty much count on Giles heading off into the sunset in a year or two.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I didn't say that you were giving up the farm for Peavy, only that that is what it would take to get him.

To get Peavy would require a Haren/Bedard type deal. That means Cueto plus three or four top prospects. San Diego is not trading one of the top 5 pitchers in the league, who is 27, for Cueto and fodder, or even Cueto, one top prospect and fodder.
It would be nice to get Peavy, but it would cost too much, and the Reds don't need him. The Reds need a big bat for the middle of the lineup, not a top of the rotation pitcher.

[kpresidente]

I'd rather sign CC and trade Arroyo than trade Cueto for Peavy.

For the same money I'm adding prospects instead of losing them.

[TheBigLebowski]

You seriously think Cueto will be Peavy's SUPERIOR in 1-2 years?!?! You have GOT to be kidding!

Peavy is 27, and is just entering his PEAK years, he is nowhere near his downturn. We're talking about a PROVEN commodity here - 200 innnings, 200K's, under 3.0 ERA and under 1.20 WHIP. Even his "OFF" year of 2006 when he had a 4.09 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP is something we only DREAM and WISH Cueto will get to within a year or two.

Remarkable.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

First of all, calm down, broseph.

JC was phenomenal most of this season. He's got electric stuff and he's extremely young. I fully anticipate he'll improve even more next year and, in 2010, he could be one of the best pitchers in the game and could EASILY be a 30 year old Peavy's superior at that point. Furthermore, Peavy's already had arm problems and that just scares me. Not that I don't think he's still extremely valuable - he is and I would love to have him as a Red. Just not at the price you propose, which, admittedly, is probably in the ballpark as far as what it would take to get him.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I dunno about mortgaging the future on Peavy..... its tempting. but I just don't know if I'm ready to do it. Cueto could be special. Like better than Volquez this past year special. Cueto COULD be Peavy..... COULD be. Potential can get you fired. Such a tough call.

[redsfandan]

I'd rather sign CC and trade Arroyo than trade Cueto for Peavy.

For the same money I'm adding prospects instead of losing them.

same here. you don't build up a farm system only to decimate it for one good pitcher, one year of a possible platoon player and one year of an overpaid outfielder that doesn't have alot of power or speed anymore.
i can understand how someone would like to have peavy. who wouldn't? but as wojo1025 pointed out, his stats could look alot different with another ballpark to call home let alone a park like great american.
greene is a FA after '09. so if agon is healthy we'd have an expensive platoon for one year and then more uncertainty? wondeful.
'09 is an option year for giles which may not be picked up anyway. do you think a team that wants to shed payroll would pick up an $9 million option on a player that had only 12 hrs in '08? let's see if they pick up the option.
are you really sure keppinger could be a decent 2nd baseman? to me that's a dropoff.
so potentially after one year we'd have peavy, question marks at short and 2nd, and a farm system that would have to be built back up again. i know people like big moves but this sounds like a case of someone that wants to acquire a big name player just cuz of his baseball card (PAST perfomance) no matter the cost/needs. i just don't understand why people are so quick to deal young, talented, and mostly cheap players like cueto, volquez (cmon really ChatterRed?), stubbs, frazier, etc and even bp when it doesn't even address a need. it also sometimes seems like people have too much respect for players on other teams and not enough for our own players/prospects.
we don't need a starting pitcher. we need more offense! :thumbup: not less offense.

[UPRedsFan]

Well said. This team needs offense more than starting pitching at this point.

Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Ramirez/Owings/Bailey/Thompson/Masset?

Is a playoff caliber rotation. And Volquez/Cueto/Harang certainly have the ability to dominate in a short series.

Dickerson, Freel/Hairston, Votto, Encarnacion, Bruce, Phillips, Gonzalez, Hannigan is not a playoff caliber offense!

[The Operator]

It would probably be more sensible to sign someone like Derek Lowe to a 2-3 year deal (if he can be had for that) and not have to give up any of the kids on the farm to get him. It would probably only cost a second-round draft pick.

It would take a boatload of players to get Jake Peavy in a Reds uniform. On top of that, he hasn't been nearly as impressive away from cavernous Petco Park as he has been while pitching at home. If he were pitching half his games in a park like GABP, we may all be very disappointed. Speaking of GABP, another reason Derek Lowe seems like a good fit is he is quite the grounball inducer, something that goes very well in a homer-friendly park.

But it's probably all a moot point anyway. Jake Peavy has no-trade protection and Cincinnati was not on his short list of teams which he would accept a trade to, so it's not going to happen.

[BLEEDS]

Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Ramirez/Owings/Bailey/Thompson/Masset?

Is a playoff caliber rotation.

But:
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Ramirez/Bailey/Thompson/Fogg/Belisle

wasn't?

I didn't know Owings had such an impact to a rotation?!?!

:thumbdown

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[The Operator]

But:
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Ramirez/Bailey/Thompson/Fogg/Belisle

wasn't?

I didn't know Owings had such an impact to a rotation?!?!

:thumbdown

PEACE

-BLEEDSNot when Harang had his worst year in recent memory and Cueto took his rookie lumps, no. I think it's safe to say most people expect Harang to bounce back and for Cueto to take steps forward.

Besides, the rotation is a much smaller problem for this team then defense up the middle and offense. Another solid starting pitcher would be great, but it doesn't have to be the caliber of Jake Peavy, just someone to plug in somehwere between slots 3-5 who won't pitch horribly.

Improve the offense and defense, and the pitching staff really should be good enough.

[UPRedsFan]

But:
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Ramirez/Bailey/Thompson/Fogg/Belisle

wasn't?

I didn't know Owings had such an impact to a rotation?!?!

:thumbdown

PEACE

-BLEEDS


If you expect Cueto to learn nothing from his first year and show no improvement, if you expect Harang to be just as unhealthy next year, if you expect Volquez has hit his peak already, and if you expect Owings to be as bad as Fogg then you may have a point. However I don't agree with any of those premises. It's a competitive playoff caliber rotation as is. Yes adding one more average or better starter would help. But I'd rather see Walt go after offense and defense.

[BLEEDS]

UP and Operator - I heard the exact same things last year.

"EVERYBODY will get better, and NOBODY will regress"

Homer Bailey was supposed to "learn" from his callup last year. NO WAY IN THE WORLD could we get worse production out of the #5 spot in the rotation.
PFFT!
EVERY young pitcher is crapshoot, and every veteran is prime for a let-down year.

EVERY Reds fan is delusional.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Bip Roberts]

such condensation in this thread

[The Operator]

UP and Operator - I heard the exact same things last year.

"EVERYBODY will get better, and NOBODY will regress"

Homer Bailey was supposed to "learn" from his callup last year. NO WAY IN THE WORLD could we get worse production out of the #5 spot in the rotation.
PFFT!If you read my post prior to the one you're referring to, I am an advocate of The Reds signing Derek Lowe. I think you can put him in the #3 slot and that pushes both Cueto and Arroyo back one slot. Not a bad option at all, IMO.

I also don't think it's fair to compare Johnny Cueto to Homer Bailey. They're in no way similar, other than the fact that they're young. Homer Bailey has never shown an ability to command his pitches or consistently work well within the strike zone. Johnny Cueto, while struggling at times, has demonstrated exceptional command, and has actually pitched a full season in the big leagues. Homer has been beaten around so bad in each callup he's had that he's never sniffed the amount of experience that Johnny Cueto has gotten.


EVERY young pitcher is crapshoot, and every veteran is prime for a let-down year. By that logic, how can we trust that Jake Peavy wouldn't let us down? If every single veteran is prime for a letdown, I can't imagine a better situation for regressing than moving from Petco Park to GABP. Just sayin'..


EVERY Reds fan is delusional. Does that include you? ;)

[757690]

UP and Operator - I heard the exact same things last year.

"EVERYBODY will get better, and NOBODY will regress"

Homer Bailey was supposed to "learn" from his callup last year. NO WAY IN THE WORLD could we get worse production out of the #5 spot in the rotation.
PFFT!
EVERY young pitcher is crapshoot, and every veteran is prime for a let-down year.

EVERY Reds fan is delusional.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


I stole this from the ORG, thanks to OBP>


Will the Cincinnati Reds be the Surprise of 2009?

by Peter Bendix on Oct 14, 2008 5:00 AM EDT

The transformation of Tampa Bay from the bottom-feeding Devil Rays to the championship-contending Rays has truly been amazing. Even though some in the sabermetric community saw it coming, the Rays have still exceeded nearly everyone’s expectations, vaulting into the ALCS.

Much of Rays’s improvement can be attributed to a drastic improvement in their defense. The Rays defense went from historically-bad in 2007 to one of the best in the league in 2008. In fact, the Rays allowed exactly 300 less hits this year than last year, despite having very similar walk- and strikeout-rates. The pitching staff undoubtedly improved – they gave up 33 fewer homers this year than last year, partially due to addition by subtraction. However, the improved Rays defense is a very big reason for the Rays’s turnaround.

With that in mind, are there any teams that may be primed to make an unexpected run in 2009?

Star-divide

Baseball Prospectus’s Jay Jaffe wrote about PADE – Park Adjusted Defensive Efficiency – as a better stat to evaluate team defense than simple defensive efficiency .

The Reds had the worst PADE in baseball this season. Despite this, they "only" allowed the 23rd most runs in the league – yes, this is a lot, but it suggests that much of the problem is the Reds defense, rather than the pitchers themselves.

The numbers bear this out. The Reds staff allowed the most homers in baseball – but part of that is because Great American Ballpark is quite homer-friendly. They were middle-of-the-pack in walks (16th, to be exact), and they were fourth (!) in baseball in strikeouts. (Incidentally, in 2007 the Rays had the second most strikeouts in baseball.)

The Reds have had very bad defenses over the last eight years. And, not coincidentally, the Reds have not even managed to be .500 once over the last eight years. In fact, the last time that the Reds’s PADE was in the top half of the league was also the last time they were over .500. Take a look:



The Reds have a unique opportunity in 2009. They will be without both Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. – both of whom have been well below average defenders. Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, and Brandon Phillips are all excellent defenders. The Reds have the opportunity to dramatically improve their outfield defense if they can find two solid defenders to complement Bruce. While Edwin Encarnacion is a very poor defender at third base, if the Reds can find a shortstop with above-average range, they may also be able to somewhat offset Encarnacion’s poor play at third.

The Reds have an underrated pitching staff that was severely hampered by the defense behind them this year. The Reds have an opportunity to dramatically improve their defense for 2009; if they do so, they may be the surprise story of 2009.


One of the main reason why the Reds rotation has been so bad for years is the team defense. I expect Jocketty to vastly improve the Reds defense, and the rotation will improve with it.

Reds Pade Rankings

http://www.redszone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5395&d=1224180158

[BLEEDS]

If you read my post prior to the one you're referring to, I am an advocate of The Reds signing Derek Lowe. I think you can put him in the #3 slot and that pushes both Cueto and Arroyo back one slot. Not a bad option at all, IMO.


Not a bad option I agree. However the thread is about acquiring Peavy.



I also don't think it's fair to compare Johnny Cueto to Homer Bailey. They're in no way similar, other than the fact that they're young. Homer Bailey has never shown an ability to command his pitches or consistently work well within the strike zone. Johnny Cueto, while struggling at times, has demonstrated exceptional command, and has actually pitched a full season in the big leagues. Homer has been beaten around so bad in each callup he's had that he's never sniffed the amount of experience that Johnny Cueto has gotten.


I'm not comparing the two, just pointing out that you can't expect rookies/young pitchers to always take steps forward, and none back. Same goes for veterans.

I saw Peavy's "off year" and it is on par with the BEST years we've had from a pitcher in over a decade. he's pretty much a model of consistency.



Does that include you? ;)

Why yes, of course!!:beerme:


PEACE

-BLEEDS

[The Operator]

I'm not comparing the two, just pointing out that you can't expect rookies/young pitchers to always take steps forward, and none back. Same goes for veterans.

I saw Peavy's "off year" and it is on par with the BEST years we've had from a pitcher in over a decade. he's pretty much a model of consistency.Two of the last three seasons, his road ERA has been much higher than his home ERA. That doesn't bode well when moving from Petco Park to Great American Ballpark.

I don't think he would completely implode in Cincy, but I am afriad that he would underperform compared to expectations and his salary. I'd hate for The Reds to trade a huge package of prospects away for Peavy to come to Cincy and turn into Bronson Arroyo. Not that it would happen, but there is definitely that risk.

[kpresidente]

UP and Operator - I heard the exact same things last year.

"EVERYBODY will get better, and NOBODY will regress"

Homer Bailey was supposed to "learn" from his callup last year. NO WAY IN THE WORLD could we get worse production out of the #5 spot in the rotation.
PFFT!



Yeah, but Homer was suspect even coming into the year. Lots of head problems there. Cueto's a pretty safe bet. Like Votto was.

[kpresidente]

It would probably be more sensible to sign someone like Derek Lowe to a 2-3 year deal (if he can be had for that) and not have to give up any of the kids on the farm to get him.

Stay away from Derek Lowe.

His three-year road ERA is 4.24 and his BAA is .50 points higher, too. Playing in Cincinnati, I doubt he'd be better than Arroyo.

[Eric_the_Red]

Until the organization shows it is willing to spend more money, I don't want to give up any of the bright young stars. If the payroll will remain in the lower-middle range of MLB, then trading guys like Cueto is a bad, bad idea.

Plus, I don't think Peavy is $50 million better than Cueto over the next three years.

[ChatterRed]

I really don't expect the Reds mgmt to go after any pitcher in trade. I really think they expect Owings to be the 5th starter and will just stand pat.

I heard Lance quote Walt on his show today, and Walt basically said the Rays benefited from fan apathy..........nobody cared. He said that wouldn't work in Cincinnati where the fans are tired of losing and expect some moves. He said it was more important to build the infrastructure like the Rays did.

[Hondo]

ESPN said that the Padres are looking past the 5 clubs Peavy requested... Braves, Cubs, LA Dodgers, and St. Louis...

Come on Reds... This guy is affordable the next couple of years... Dunn and Griffey's salarys are off the Books so hopefully Walt will get this guy...

Peavy
Harang
Volquez
Cueto
Owings

Thats a good foundation...

[DUNN'KD]

ESPN said that the Padres are looking past the 5 clubs Peavy requested... Braves, Cubs, LA Dodgers, and St. Louis...

Come on Reds... This guy is affordable the next couple of years... Dunn and Griffey's salarys are off the Books so hopefully Walt will get this guy...

Peavy
Harang
Volquez
Cueto
Owings

Thats a good foundation...

Except a Peavy trade would most likly require the Reds to ship Cueto to the Pads. That being said

Peavy
Volquez
Harang
Arroyo
Owings

Looks pretty nice.

[Eric_the_Red]

Except a Peavy trade would most likly require the Reds to ship Cueto to the Pads. That being said

Peavy
Volquez
Harang
Arroyo
Owings

Looks pretty nice.

I think Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Owings +$20 mil to spend on other roster needs looks better.

[I(heart)Freel]

I think Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Owings +$20 mil to spend on other roster needs looks better.

I respectfully disagree. Pitching wins.

You put Peavy in the roto and I think this team could live with in-house candidates for centerfield and left, playing the hot hand.

[Eric_the_Red]

I respectfully disagree. Pitching wins.

You put Peavy in the roto and I think this team could live with in-house candidates for centerfield and left, playing the hot hand.

True enough, pitching does win. But I think the rotation we have will win enough. If Harang pitches anywhere close to his norm, this is a whole new club. I think we all expect to see improvement from Cueto, and if Volquez can repeat his success, that rotation could stack up against any.

I think filling needs (CF, Middle Inf, C, bullpen) and improving fielding would lead to more wins than Peavy instead of Cueto every fifth day.

But, agree to disagree. When in Rome.:D

[ChatterRed]

I respectfully disagree. Pitching wins.

You put Peavy in the roto and I think this team could live with in-house candidates for centerfield and left, playing the hot hand.

Cueto is 22 years old and just finished his first major league season. His second half season produced an e.r.a. of around 3.50. He got better.

Volquez has gone on record as saying Cueto has better stuff than he does.

I am not for trading Cueto to anyone. I'll stand pat before I trade Cueto.

In fact, I wouldn't trade Votto, Bruce, Cueto, or Volquez. At this point, I'd like to see what Dickerson could/would do with a full season before I trade him, but for the right return, I probably would trade him. I'd love to keep Jared Burton around too. But otherwise, nobody else is untouchable for the right return.

But not Cueto! :thumbdown