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View Full Version : Who is Redszone's #2 prospect?



OnBaseMachine
10-17-2008, 07:34 PM
Yonder Alonso won in a landslide for the Reds #1 prospect. Since it wasn't close I'll go ahead start the poll for #2.

Redszone's Top Prospects:

Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso, 1B

AmarilloRed
10-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Ramon Ramirez will be a BOR starter at the minimum for the Reds last year. He went from AA to having an impressive September for the Reds last year. He gets my vote.

OnBaseMachine
10-17-2008, 07:49 PM
I went with Neftali Soto with Todd Frazier a fairly close second. I just love the potential and production that Soto has shown at age 19. He's got enormous potential IMO with his quick bat speed, ability to drive the ball to all fields, and a long and wiry frame that will allow him to develop plus power. The ball just jumps off his bat and he makes consistent hard contact. In a couple years he could be the big right handed power bat we're looking for.

JayBruceFan
10-17-2008, 08:06 PM
Soto is my #1

Frazier is my #2

Valiaka #3

Stubbs #4

Justin Turner #5



Alonso is somewhere in the top 5 this time next year if he does well this coming season.

OnBaseMachine
10-17-2008, 08:12 PM
Over the past few years it seems like the Reds have produced left handed bat after left handed bat. Adam Dunn, Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Ben Broussard, Chris Dickerson, Josh Hamilton via Rule-5 trade, and Griffey via trade. Now things seem to be changing a bit. Yeah we just drafted lefty Yonder Alonso and have a couple powerful lefty bats in Juan Francisco and Danny Dorn, but right handed bats seem to be becoming the strength of the minor league system. Neftali Soto, Todd Frazier, Chris Valaika, and Drew Stubbs are all right handed, though the latter two aren't power hitters, not yet anyway. Recent International signees, Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez, are both right handed hitters. 2008 sixth rounder Alex Buchholz is another interesting RH bat. That's a nice combination of balance and depth.

GoReds33
10-17-2008, 08:59 PM
I had to go with Frazier. I've not yet seen him play, but his stats, and scouting evaluations lead me to believe that he's got something special. I hope to see him up here after Spring 2010.

gedred69
10-17-2008, 09:50 PM
I voted Dorn, but am torn between him and Valaika. So many are high on Frazier, but the Reds seem not to know what position he can best play. He is definately not a SS or 2B. Unless he can play maybe 3rd, or OF successfully down the road, where does he fit? Those positions are potentially crowded...

*BaseClogger*
10-17-2008, 09:50 PM
I'm not enamored with the potential of any of the higher level-'spects, so I went with the pitcher with the most upside--Kyle Lotzkar...

fearofpopvol1
10-17-2008, 11:17 PM
Frazier without a doubt.

REDblooded
10-17-2008, 11:40 PM
there are two sides to baseball, offense, and defense, so after selecting Yonder, the guy that I believe has the best bat in the system, I'll take the best glove. Gimme some Drew Stubbs here, since none of the arms are better than him.

lollipopcurve
10-18-2008, 12:14 AM
tough vote for me because I like Soto, but Frazier has just been so solid -- the so-called "intangibles" make Frazier pretty much a sure thing, while I don't know anything about Soto other than that he can really hit... Frazier in a photo finish

Kc61
10-18-2008, 12:50 AM
Soto has walked 22 times in 437 at bats. As he climbs the ladder, this could be a problem.

Frazier for number 2.

OnBaseMachine
10-18-2008, 12:52 AM
Soto has walked 22 times in 437 at bats. As he climbs the ladder, this could be a problem.


How many times are we going to go through this? How come you're willing to look past Juan Francisco's awful plate discipline and crucify Soto for his low walk total? Yeah, Soto doesn't walk a whole lot right now but he's only 19 and has just 437 professional atbats under his belt. It's not like he's some big hacker who will chase anything. From what I've read, his lack of walks comes from him having good plate coverage and solid contact skills. He's spent the majority of his young pro career in tough environments for hitters and has managed to post a .327/.360/.522 - .882 statline. That's very impressive IMO.

Kc61
10-18-2008, 01:25 AM
How many times are we going to go through this? How come you're willing to look past Juan Francisco's awful plate discipline and crucify Soto for his low walk total? Yeah, Soto doesn't walk a whole lot right now but he's only 19 and has just 437 professional atbats under his belt. It's not like he's some big hacker who will chase anything. From what I've read, his lack of walks comes from him having good plate coverage and solid contact skills. He's spent the majority of his young pro career in tough environments for hitters and has managed to post a .327/.360/.522 - .882 statline. That's very impressive IMO.

Not looking past Francisco's plate discipline. Soto is a better prospect right now. But Francisco's huge power production in a pitcher's High-A league at age 20-21 shouldn't be overlooked either.

I like Frazier as number two. I think he's the second best overall offensive threat in the organization. I expect a huge season from Frazier at AA next year. I wish they would settle on a position for him.

As I've said, I have Stubbs at 3 and Soto as number 4.

ChatterRed
10-18-2008, 01:47 AM
I like Soto's upside. What he's doing at age 19 is far superior than anyone in the minor leagues for the Reds.

My second choice is Frazier.

mth123
10-18-2008, 07:24 AM
Frazier. His Hawaii showing should increase his market value and speed his rise to the majors. A hot month or two in AA and a promotion to AAA would be in store for him. Once he's at AAA, the promation to Cincy could occur any time. I have he and Alonso really close at 1 and 2. Soto is a close third. IMO those three are clearly superior to the others. Stubbs and Lotzkar are probably next.

If Homer Bailey were still eligible, he'd still be choice for number 1.

dougdirt
10-18-2008, 12:51 PM
Neftali Soto and its not close. The guy just hit .340 and slugged .552 as a 19 year old in professional baseball.

icehole3
10-18-2008, 01:25 PM
I have Soto and Frazier in a dead heat with Frazier by a nose because he has just a slight bit more power than Soto IMO, its really really close, Soto's a clutch hitter as well. Theyre both untouchables IMO.

fearofpopvol1
10-18-2008, 08:31 PM
It's interesting how Soto was ranked #2 in the "#1 prospect" but 2 here as well. Wouldn't (or shouldn't) he in theory be ranked #1 here?

HBP
10-18-2008, 08:53 PM
It's interesting how Soto was ranked #2 in the "#1 prospect" but 2 here as well. Wouldn't (or shouldn't) he in theory be ranked #1 here?

Not really. More people that voted for Alonso are probably voting for Frazier.

I personally think Alonso, Frazier, then Soto right now, but really that's only because Frazier is a bit more proven. I expect Soto to take over #2 if he keeps it up.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 01:14 AM
Here's a picture of Soto from a couple years ago...his batting stance and body type reminds me so much of A-Rod. I'm not comparing him to A-Rod the hitter, just his body type and stance.

http://www.powershowcase.us/old/hosts/images/FINALS_pix/soto_87.jpg

RedlegJake
10-19-2008, 12:57 PM
I picked Frazier over Soto because Todd has a lot more polish right now. If I was picking purely on ceiling it would be Soto.

LoganBuck
10-19-2008, 03:41 PM
I went Soto, I can not ignore his on field performance in the MWL as a 19 year old kid. Frazier will be my next pick. Soto is showing me a little more at a younger age.

SMcGavin
10-19-2008, 03:55 PM
If I was gonna go with a young kid who performed well in Dayton it would be Kyle Lotzkar. 11.9 K/9 as a 18 year old - wow. It's not a knock on Soto at all, but given a choice between potential top 3B and potential top SP, I'm taking the SP.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 04:46 PM
If I was gonna go with a young kid who performed well in Dayton it would be Kyle Lotzkar. 11.9 K/9 as a 18 year old - wow. It's not a knock on Soto at all, but given a choice between potential top 3B and potential top SP, I'm taking the SP.

I would have no complaints whatsoever if someone voted for Lotzkar at #2. Like you said, what he was doing in that league was incredible for an 18 year old kid. I'd put him in the Johnny Cueto/Edinson Volquez/Homer Bailey class of pitching prospects. That said, I'm huge fan of Soto and Frazier so I probably won't vote for Lotzkar until #4 where I'll debate between Lotzkar and Stubbs.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 04:55 PM
Danny Dorn with three votes for #2 prospect. I'm a bit surprised by that but I can see why people like him. He absolutely crushes right handed pitching. He could develop into maybe a poor mans Brad Hawpe, a guy who obliterates right handed pitching but struggles against lefties. Though Hawpe did hit lefties much better this season. At worst I think Dorn develops into a valuable asset off the bench, at best he's Brad Hawpe-lite.

Orenda
10-19-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm a little surprised with the number of votes Stubbs is getting. I always assumed his supporters were a scrutinized minority. After Frazier, Soto, and Alonso are off it should get pretty interesting.

SMcGavin
10-19-2008, 06:17 PM
I would have no complaints whatsoever if someone voted for Lotzkar at #2. Like you said, what he was doing in that league was incredible for an 18 year old kid. I'd put him in the Johnny Cueto/Edinson Volquez/Homer Bailey class of pitching prospects. That said, I'm huge fan of Soto and Frazier so I probably won't vote for Lotzkar until #4 where I'll debate between Lotzkar and Stubbs.

Completely agree on Lotzkar's potential. He kind of gets forgotten because of his injury and the hype on his teammate Soto. But assuming a healthly 2009 from Lotzkar, I think he and Alonso will be the consensus top two prospects in the system after the season.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 07:39 PM
This poll is officially closed. Todd Frazier beat out Neftali Soto by nine votes. I'll start the next thread in a few minutes.

gedred69
10-19-2008, 09:46 PM
Danny Dorn with three votes for #2 prospect. I'm a bit surprised by that but I can see why people like him. He absolutely crushes right handed pitching. He could develop into maybe a poor mans Brad Hawpe, a guy who obliterates right handed pitching but struggles against lefties. Though Hawpe did hit lefties much better this season. At worst I think Dorn develops into a valuable asset off the bench, at best he's Brad Hawpe-lite.

I'm the 1st of the 3 pro votes for Dorn. Why? Well, you said it right on the money. I'm not all that in favor of looking for the next super star, ala Rose or Bench like so many do,------those types of players are an anomally, and extremely rare. However, certain players, albeit solid players, that are there for a Team to count on in the right situation , (ala Oliver, Sabo, Hatcher, etc.), well, that when Champions happen....

Betterread
10-19-2008, 10:41 PM
Neftali Soto and its not close. The guy just hit .340 and slugged .552 as a 19 year old in professional baseball.
I agree with your assessment. I'm curious to see where you rate Francisco, who has greater power, less ability to make contact, better fielding and similiar lack of patience at the plate as Soto. He'll be in AA at 22 yrs old. I project Soto at AA at 21.

dougdirt
10-20-2008, 01:37 AM
I agree with your assessment. I'm curious to see where you rate Francisco, who has greater power, less ability to make contact, better fielding and similiar lack of patience at the plate as Soto. He'll be in AA at 22 yrs old. I project Soto at AA at 21.

Francisco is my #10 guy. Just too much potential there to throw away. If he can literally add 2 or 3 walks per month, which isn't much to ask, he becomes a MUCH better player and prospect.

Mario-Rijo
10-20-2008, 02:39 AM
Francisco is my #10 guy. Just too much potential there to throw away. If he can literally add 2 or 3 walks per month, which isn't much to ask, he becomes a MUCH better player and prospect.

Say what Doug? 2 or 3 BB's a month might show a little progress but is far from where he needs to be. Yeah it makes him a better player and prospect but just slightly IMO.

dougdirt
10-20-2008, 03:23 AM
Say what Doug? 2 or 3 BB's a month might show a little progress but is far from where he needs to be. Yeah it makes him a better player and prospect but just slightly IMO.

A minor league season is from April-August. Thats 5 months. If Francisco added 10-15 walks this season rather than 10-15 outs, he would have hit : .282/.322/.506 if he just traded 10 outs for walks. Thats an .828 OPS from a .799 OPS or he would have hit .285/.331/.511 for an .842 OPS from a .799 OPS if he traded just 3 outs per month for 3 walks. Basically he would be a Brandon Phillips type player with just those small improvements, but with a lot more power.

Mario-Rijo
10-20-2008, 10:32 PM
A minor league season is from April-August. Thats 5 months. If Francisco added 10-15 walks this season rather than 10-15 outs, he would have hit : .282/.322/.506 if he just traded 10 outs for walks. Thats an .828 OPS from a .799 OPS or he would have hit .285/.331/.511 for an .842 OPS from a .799 OPS if he traded just 3 outs per month for 3 walks. Basically he would be a Brandon Phillips type player with just those small improvements, but with a lot more power.

Ok so let me get this straight. You're saying if he BB's 15 times more this coming season than usual he will then propel himself into top prospect status? Would he then become a can't miss type of prospect?

Betterread
10-20-2008, 10:53 PM
Ok so let me get this straight. You're saying if he BB's 15 times more this coming season than usual he will then propel himself into top prospect status? Would he then become a can't miss type of prospect?

I would agree - if he draws 40+ walks next year without sacrificing average or power. That would indicate to me that his pitch recongition is solid - he would know what pitches he can crush and which to lay off. If his pitch recongnition is solid, at the age of 21/22 - he is a good bet to learn more patience. How about a Beltre comparison?

dougdirt
10-20-2008, 11:33 PM
Ok so let me get this straight. You're saying if he BB's 15 times more this coming season than usual he will then propel himself into top prospect status? Would he then become a can't miss type of prospect?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

Mario-Rijo
10-21-2008, 03:37 AM
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

Ok we shall see, cross your fingers that he does then.