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View Full Version : Who is Redszone's #3 prospect?



OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 06:42 PM
Let the voting begin. This poll will close on Tuesday evening.

Redszone's Top Prospects:

Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso
Prospect #2 - Todd Frazier

JaxRed
10-19-2008, 06:44 PM
I vote based on ceiling. While Lotzkar and Soto were very impressive at age 18 and 19 and will be my next choices, both had an issue with walks.

So I have to go Duran who seems to be our top 16 year old signee, capable of being a megastar.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 06:46 PM
I'll again vote for Neftali Soto. Still raw as a hitter but still managed to hit .340 with a .920 OPS as a 19 year old.

camisadelgolf
10-19-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm also going with Duran. He could realistically fulfill his potential, which looks like it was made for a video game.

mth123
10-19-2008, 07:08 PM
Soto clearly.

Kc61
10-19-2008, 07:54 PM
Stubbs. There's no DH in the National League.

Once Stubbs hit so well in AA and AAA, he rocketed up my list.

Soto is a better hitting prospect. All around, I give the edge to Stubbs.

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 08:00 PM
There's no DH in the National League.


What's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to imply that Soto is strictly a DH? Because that's far from the truth.

bubbachunk
10-19-2008, 08:14 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to imply that Soto is strictly a DH? Because that's far from the truth.

Yea everything I have read about him is a strong arm and never a knock.

He gets my vote because the numbers at his age are just sick.

Kc61
10-19-2008, 08:16 PM
What's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to imply that Soto is strictly a DH? Because that's far from the truth.


Of course not.

It means that, particularly for an NL parent team, defense is important.

Perhaps Soto can be competent defensively, but I haven't read that he has any special defensive skills.

Stubbs is reputedly a superb centerfielder. Given his good hitting at advanced levels, he edges out Soto for me in the number three spot. If Stubbs hits for an .800 OPS at AAA next year, he becomes a viable candidate -- along with Alonso -- for the Reds top overall prospect.

bubbachunk
10-19-2008, 08:18 PM
Of course not.

It means that, particularly for an NL parent team, defense is important.

Perhaps Soto can be competent defensively, but I haven't read that he has any special defensive skills.

Stubbs is reputedly a superb centerfielder. Given his good hitting at advanced levels, he edges out Soto for me in the number three spot. If Stubbs hits for an .800 OPS at AAA next year, he becomes a viable candidate -- along with Alonso -- for the Reds top overall prospect.

If he had done that over a year I would agree with you but it was a small sample size that he did that in. I am pulling for the guy like anyone else but he needs to show more consistency

OnBaseMachine
10-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Of course not.

It means that, particularly for an NL parent team, defense is important.

Perhaps Soto can be competent defensively, but I haven't read that he has any special defensive skills.

Stubbs is reputedly a superb centerfielder. Given his good hitting at advanced levels, he edges out Soto for me in the number three spot. If Stubbs hits for an .800 OPS at AAA next year, he becomes a viable candidate -- along with Alonso -- for the Reds top overall prospect.

I agree 100% that defense is important. I've been one of the biggest advocates of improving the Reds defense. I also agree that Stubbs would make a strong bid for the Reds #1 prospect if he can OPS north of .800 next season. As for Soto, while he doesn't have any special defensive skills, he's not a liability either. Most expect him to have average range at third base to go along with his strong arm. That's fine, not too many teams, if any, have plus defenders at every position.

gedred69
10-19-2008, 08:52 PM
It's still Dorn, with serious consideration to Valaika. Why? They both are closer to getting the call than so many on the list, and, have shown the ability at high enough level to be able to play with the Big Boys sometime soon.

Betterread
10-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Soto was #2 for me. Since he can't hold that spot, #3 should be a given. The Reds' development staff needs to hit on the right positions for Soto, Frazier and Valaika, because they are all going to be quality ML hitters.

Mario-Rijo
10-19-2008, 08:57 PM
I too am an advocate for defense, it's simply necc. to not have any glaring weaknesses and preferably several plus defenders. That said if you cannot do enough offensively it really doesn't matter how good you are defensively. Soto is a kid with a very good offensive game and no defensive deficiencies to speak of. Stubbs OTOH is still questionable offensively with sterling defense. Stubbs is also alot closer and plays a premium defensive position, so I can see why someone would vote him ahead of Soto.

But it's not gonna be me, Soto can be special offensively which is something that you just don't overlook or undervalue. As horrible as Manny Ramirez's defense is and how big a cancer he can be he has made a ton of money off the fact that he is a special offensive player. Now imagine a guy who isn't even the force Manny is, say Jason Bay but plays a fair 3B and isn't a cancer? Is that more valuable than a Mike Cameron at best player or less? Ughh, gimme that slugging 3B and that CF but if I can only have one I'll take the 3B by a nose & a half.

Kc61
10-19-2008, 09:06 PM
I too am an advocate for defense, it's simply necc. to not have any glaring weaknesses and preferably several plus defenders. That said if you cannot do enough offensively it really doesn't matter how good you are defensively. Soto is a kid with a very good offensive game and no defensive deficiencies to speak of. Stubbs OTOH is still questionable offensively with sterling defense. Stubbs is also alot closer and plays a premium defensive position, so I can see why someone would vote him ahead of Soto.

But it's not gonna be me, Soto can be special offensively which is something that you just don't overlook or undervalue. As horrible as Manny Ramirez's defense is and how big a cancer he can be he has made a ton of money off the fact that he is a special offensive player. Now imagine a guy who isn't even the force Manny is, say Jason Bay but plays a fair 3B and isn't a cancer? Is that more valuable than a Mike Cameron at best player or less? Ughh, gimme that slugging 3B and that CF but if I can only have one I'll take the 3B by a nose & a half.

As the post-season reports from the various publications come out, let's see what they say about Soto's defensive prowess. Should be interesting.

I've read that the jury is still out on his defense and that he isn't fast. (Have not read that he's a terrible liability or anything.) Maybe, on balance, he will grade out well. We'll have to see.

mth123
10-19-2008, 09:24 PM
I think a special bat has a lot more value than a special glove. Even if Soto looks like a defensive liability, his bat probably means he can be dealt for something more valuable than a plus plus CF who we hope will scrape together enough of an offensive game to stay in the line-up. That CF is Corey Patterson if he can't play on the offensive side.

I was impressed by Stubbs progress in 2008 as well and I have him at number 4, but Frazier, Alonso and Soto are clearly a cut above the rest of these guys IMO.

*BaseClogger*
10-20-2008, 01:22 AM
I'm not enamored with the potential of any of the higher level-'spects, so I went with the pitcher with the most upside--Kyle Lotzkar...

dougdirt
10-20-2008, 02:15 AM
Easily Soto, because he was easily the #2 prospect for me. .340 BA and a .550 SLG at age 19. Just simply ridiculous.

icehole3
10-20-2008, 04:45 AM
If Im not mistaken the only, I mean only reason Soto isnt playing SS is because of Cozart is a better defensive SS and Soto's great hitting skills warranted him going to Dayton. I saw 3 or 4 Dayton games last year and he's got a cannon arm and he was learning 3rd, not sure how his defense came into question...folks this kid is got future major league all-star written all over him.

TRF
10-20-2008, 09:50 AM
I had Soto at #1. his numbers this year combined with his age put him a a Jay Bruce level as far as hitting goes. Maybe a hair behind, maybe. That means he's performed at a higher level than Yonder at a younger age. Alonso may be more polished, but I doubt we can clearly state he has a higher ceiling.

lollipopcurve
10-20-2008, 11:04 AM
So I have to go Duran who seems to be our top 16 year old signee, capable of being a megastar.

Jax, did you go to Sarasota and get a first hand look at the kid in instrux?

OnBaseMachine
10-20-2008, 12:08 PM
Nice turnout so far. Already 85 votes with just over 30 hours left to vote. The next one is gonna be the toughest of all for me so far. I'm torn between Kyle Lotzkar and Drew Stubbs for #4. I'm not sure how I'm going to vote, it'll probably come down to the last minute. Either way, those guys are four and five for me.

Orenda
10-20-2008, 01:03 PM
Nice turnout so far. Already 85 votes with just over 30 hours left to vote. The next one is gonna be the toughest of all for me so far. I'm torn between Kyle Lotzkar and Drew Stubbs for #4. I'm not sure how I'm going to vote, it'll probably come down to the last minute. Either way, those guys are four and five for me.

I like Lotzkar but I'm not as much of a ceiling guy as a lot of people. He is probably the second most interesting starter behind Homer Bailey if he is healthy but I tend to have a bias towards guys who have shown consistent production. I'd go with Valaika and Dorn with my next two choices.

JaxRed
10-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Jax, did you go to Sarasota and get a first hand look at the kid in instrux?


Actually........ wife and I made a decision to go to

1) Rays/Boston playoff game
2) Arizona for Fall League from 31 Oct to 3 Nov

instead

It was tough call.......

The_jbh
10-20-2008, 01:41 PM
I think Soto is incredibly overrated by the board. I think he is an incredibly talented hitter who is incredibly raw and needs to find a defensive home... hardly a #1 prospect... and in my opinion more of a 5 or 6 in our organization.

I went with Valiaka here, also needing a defensive home, but more polished. I think he has shown he can hit at the upper levels and could possibly be a Jeff Kent type 2nd baseman... good pop, average defense average range. I think he is as close of a sure bet to be a productive ML player in this system.

OnBaseMachine
10-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Soto's not overrated at all IMO. He's 19 years old and is coming off a season in which he hit .340 with a .920 OPS. Yeah he's raw, but that makes his season even more impressive if you ask me. Imagine what he can do when he polishes up his game.

lollipopcurve
10-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Actually........ wife and I made a decision to go to

1) Rays/Boston playoff game
2) Arizona for Fall League from 31 Oct to 3 Nov

instead

It was tough call.......

whew -- nice

wish I had a wife like that

gedred69
10-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Soto's not overrated at all IMO. He's 19 years old and is coming off a season in which he hit .340 with a .920 OPS. Yeah he's raw, but that makes his season even more impressive if you ask me. Imagine what he can do when he polishes up his game.

And I reiterate. How soon will he be MLB ready? Personally, I prefer to look at those who are close to the Big Leagues. I have had enough of "wait until next year",,,,, or the next, or the next. It's time to get moving. Now that the tumors are gone, this team could get good in a hurry.

PuffyPig
10-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Stubbs is reputedly a superb centerfielder. Given his good hitting at advanced levels, he edges out Soto for me in the number three spot. If Stubbs hits for an .800 OPS at AAA next year, he becomes a viable candidate -- along with Alonso -- for the Reds top overall prospect.

Great fielding CF's who OPS .800+ in the majors are rare.

Wells is basically that, and will make about $20M per season.

AmarilloRed
10-21-2008, 12:07 AM
Great fielding CF's who OPS .800+ in the majors are rare.

Wells is basically that, and will make about $20M per season.

Dickerson did that last year in Cincinnati by a considerable margin, and yet he has not gotten any votes so far. I think he will surprise a lot of people next year if he gets 600 ABs. I'd be interested in some of the reasons why. I hope both Dickerson and Ramirez will at least make the top 10.

Mario-Rijo
10-21-2008, 02:50 AM
Dickerson did that last year in Cincinnati by a considerable margin, and yet he has not gotten any votes so far. I think he will surprise a lot of people next year if he gets 600 ABs. I'd be interested in some of the reasons why. I hope both Dickerson and Ramirez will at least make the top 10.

Well like you made mention of already in another thread, hopefully he doesn't become another Ellsbury. I don't think he will they are 2 different types of players but he could be rendered similiarly unproductive. I am not real sure where to put him at this point but I do think it's arguable that he should be considered in the top 5. His floor is lower and his age is an issue but his impact on this team could be huge if he can sustain his current production or close. He would be of bigger impact then most anyone in the farm system sans maybe Bailey. I think everyone is just expecting him to falter thus why you don't see him in the discussion to this point, especially if you take into consideration his BABIP which shows some extraordinary luck.