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View Full Version : The Second-Guess: Should Fox TV dump Buck & McCarver now?



westofyou
10-24-2008, 12:28 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-Second-Guess-Should-Fox-TV-dump-Buck-amp-?urn=mlb,117113


The Turning Point: In 1996, Fox bought broadcast rights to Major League Baseball games, including the World Series, and tapped Joe Buck and Tim McCarver to announce. Ever since, when Buck is not covering the NFL, he and McCarver have led Fox's coverage, including the current World Series.

The Question: An inordinate amount of viewers, seemingly, strongly dislike Buck and McCarver. How often have you heard praise, as opposed to scorn, for both or either? So should Fox ditch them for another duo as soon as now so those pained folks can fully enjoy the rest of the Phillies-Rays series?

Off with their talking heads!: If you want to polarize an audience, talk John McCain and Barack Obama. If you want to put an audience on the same page, talk Buck and McCarver and how awful everyone thinks they are.

Fox annually ejects Buck from Saturday baseball during the pennant race so he can work Sunday football. Personally, Buck told ESPN Radio in July that he preferred reality TV to live sports, and whined about the amount and length of baseball games. For this, Buck was hammered mercilessly by consumers, who also feel his attitude permeates baseball broadcasts, and that his voice drones on, adding to the impression that he would rather be elsewhere. This, despite growing up in a "baseball family"; his father was legendary St. Louis Cardinals announcer Jack Buck.

McCarver gets hammered by fans no matter what comes out of his mouth, which often is folksy sounding, oversimplified redundancy. In the Phillies-Rays series, McCarver has noted that sliders and sinkers are "two different pitches." Before that, he inserted himself into the Manny Ramirez story arc, pointing out to anyone listening that Manny's poorer actions in Boston were "despicable."

Even McCarver's hyperbole is hyperbolic, as in 2004 when he said after a David Ortiz home run that "Mt. Everest erupts again!" Great analogy, except that Everest isn't a volcano.

The people have spoken, and spoken, and spoken. They're calling to the broadcaster bullpen.

Stay the course: In Game 2, Buck and McCarver did a great job in tandem pointing out the rough series umpire Kerwin Danley was having. Danley's indecisive-looking and vague pointing gesture with Rocco Baldelli batting in the second inning helped the Rays score a run, and the announcers were all over it.

Buck's confidence and intelligence — despite his ridiculous comments to ESPN which he later couched — are mistaken for arrogance and smugness. People get it in their heads that he's a jerk and won't let go, no matter what he says.

Like John Madden, McCarver can sound like he talks down to the audience, but it's because most of the audience doesn't consist of hard-core baseball fanatics who comment on blogs and call sports talk radio. Most watching probably do know that sinkers and sliders are different. McCarver should explain "how" instead of simply pointing out the obvious.

TV ratings for Game 1 of Phillies-Rays were lower by 14 percent than the 2007 Series opener, but it still beat the competition. In addition, Ed Goren, the president of Fox Sports, obviously loves Buck and McCarver and wouldn't keep them on if he didn't.

You don't jettison a vice-presidential candidate, no matter how harmful, this close to an election, and you don't dump announcers in the middle of the World Series. Besides, the people who seem to hate Buck and McCarver also seem to enjoy hating them. As long as they watch.

Hindsight is 20/20: If Goren had known that the World Series would have such a small-market feel (code, for no N.Y., Boston, Chicago or L.A. teams), perhaps he could have hijacked a play-by-play guy such as ESPN's Dan Schulman. He's always prepared for a broadcast, to the point that he sounds like an ex-player who interned at SABR, and he's got a nice voice and friendly demeanor. His radio work with Orel Hershiser was outstanding earlier in the playoffs. They would make a nice No. 1 TV team. If not Schulman and Hershiser, there are only a million other duos calling a million other games, as Buck has pointed out.

Their say:

"As far as sitting down and watching a sporting event, that's just not part of my day, it's not part of my night. I'll be honest with you: watching "The Bachelorette" is." — Buck, on Colin Cowherd's ESPN Radio show in July

"So, by guessing right, you might have guessed wrong." — McCarver

"What's the difference between Tim McCarver and appendicitis? Appendicitis is covered by most health plans." — media critic Norman Chad

Big League Stew's Verdict — People, thy will be done: Buck has indicated he'd be perfectly happy calling a football game. Baseball fans seem to agree. What's the problem? Let's make this happen, Fox. When he gets bored with that, maybe Buck could replace Conan O'Brien late nights at NBC. That's probably what Buck really wants, anyway. He's talented and engaged enough with entertainment and pop culture ("Bachelorette") to do a great job with it.

As for McCarver, he's just impossible to defend from himself, so to try any harder ...

Is there an old broadcaster's home where we can place him before another whippersnapper comes and dumps water on him again? (Who would have thought a nadir could last 15 years?)

Say, did you know that a slider and a sinker are two different pitches?

SunDeck
10-24-2008, 02:21 PM
In Game 2, Buck and McCarver did a great job in tandem pointing out the rough series umpire Kerwin Danley was having. Danley's indecisive-looking and vague pointing gesture with Rocco Baldelli batting in the second inning helped the Rays score a run, and the announcers were all over it.


Huh? We needed the announcers to point that out?

Joe isn't his dad, for sure. My problem with him is that he just doesn't seem to know baseball.

McCarver I don't have as much of a problem with. I know why he's there, to provide some insight to the game that hardcore fans might not pick up. He talks too much and he's prone to the occasional Yogi Berra moment, but I would actually rather listen to him than Joe "the smartest man on earth" Morgan.

Team Clark
10-24-2008, 02:47 PM
I have railed on McCarver for quite some time. I find him to be an idiot 99% of the time. Master of the obvious. His talk show is worse. (if possible) HOWEVER, he did make an intelligent observation during game one. Unfortunately I can't remember what it was. :laugh: The comment, actually had me listening for a few more innings to see if he could replicate the occurrence.:D

blumj
10-24-2008, 02:58 PM
Honestly, Chip Caray had me longing for Joe Buck.

cumberlandreds
10-24-2008, 02:59 PM
Joe Buck has always seemed like the wise guy kid that we always wanted to beat up when we were kids. He brings nothing to the broadcast and has basically admitted he doesn't really care for baseball.
All has been said about McCarver. To me he has always talked down to his audience and holds a holier than thou persona.
IMO,FOX has the worst broadcasting duo that any of four big networks has ever put on the air for MLB.

westofyou
10-24-2008, 03:02 PM
Honestly, Chip Caray had me longing for Joe Buck.

If TBS didn't have the games I doubt Chip gets in the booth, he's to baseball announcing what eating paste is to fine dining.

TRF
10-24-2008, 03:06 PM
If TBS didn't have the games I doubt Chip gets in the booth, he's to baseball announcing what eating paste is to fine dining.

true. his off the top of his head remarks seem very rehearsed.

"Austin Kearns is Darth Vader in baseball cleats." springs to mind.

Big Klu
10-24-2008, 03:24 PM
Honestly, Chip Caray had me longing for Joe Buck.

I would take our own Thom Brennaman over either of them.

wheels
10-24-2008, 04:00 PM
I'll tell ya. I thought TBS did a terrific job with the playoffs. Production and talent wise, they were heads and shoulders above Fox.

Wish they woulda shelled out for the whole kit and caboodle.

Now I have to put the television on mute and play records, or head to the bar to watch.

I can't stand Joe Buck.

Matt700wlw
10-24-2008, 04:02 PM
I would take our own Thom Brennaman over either of them.

So would I.

RFS62
10-24-2008, 04:07 PM
I liked McCarver when he first started. The last few years, I can't stand him.

nate
10-24-2008, 04:59 PM
I would prefer George Grande to Tim McCarver.

Hell, for me, is Tim McCarver and Bill Walton calling a 64-team curling tournament.

OnBaseMachine
10-24-2008, 05:26 PM
Tim said a couple nights ago that Carlos Ruiz and Dioner Navarro are from the same place. Someone needs to tell him Caracas, Venezuela and David, Panama are two different places.

red-in-la
10-24-2008, 07:01 PM
I would prefer George Grande to Tim McCarver.

Hell, for me, is Tim McCarver and Bill Walton calling a 64-team curling tournament.

I would prefer my 9 year old son over Grande.....there are many times when I think Grande isn't even watching the game.

But Buck and McCarver are like that lite beer that the More Taste League bans.

remdog
10-24-2008, 08:17 PM
I would take our own Thom Brennaman over either of them.

:yikes:

Thom is the poster child for the bratty, whiney, no-nothing kid that's riding Dad's coattails.

Can we send him back to Arizona for $25K?

Rem

LINEDRIVER
10-24-2008, 11:23 PM
I've been sick of McCarver for years and I'm tired of Joe Morgan's act, too.

Morgan is too old to be doing all the traveling that he does without it showing in his work. After about 20 years on ESPN, he seems and sounds bored and tired. Just there for the money, Joe??? I would like to see him cut back in the next year or two and split the games with Orel Hershiser. Hershiser would continue to do what he does now, ....fill us in on a bunch of baseball stuff we haven't even thought about.

Mario-Rijo
10-24-2008, 11:44 PM
I've been sick of McCarver for years and I'm tired of Joe Morgan's act, too.

Morgan is too old to be doing all the traveling that he does without it showing in his work. After about 20 years on ESPN, he seems and sounds bored and tired. Just there for the money, Joe??? I would like to see him cut back in the next year or two and split the games with Orel Hershiser. Hershiser would continue to do what he does now, ....fill us in on a bunch of baseball stuff we haven't even thought about.

I would love to get that guy to be our pitching coach, he's very good at understanding a pitcher's issues. I would pay him large to do it.

Ron Madden
10-25-2008, 03:18 AM
I'd take Jim Kelch and Steve Stewart above anyone named in this thread.

No. I'm not kidding.

Jpup
10-25-2008, 01:15 PM
Dan Schulman is excellent. I like Matt Vasgersian as the lead guy if I am selecting it. Tony Gwynn is one of his partners in San Diego so that duo would work for me. Buck Martinez has always been one of my favorites as well. Buck M., Tony, & Matt would be a great crew.

Buck & McCarver are horrible and one of the worst #1 crews in any sport. They are only 2nd to Buck & Aikman IMO.

Mario-Rijo
10-25-2008, 01:47 PM
Dan Schulman is excellent. I like Matt Vasgersian as the lead guy if I am selecting it. Tony Gwynn is one of his partners in San Diego so that duo would work for me. Buck Martinez has always been one of my favorites as well. Buck M., Tony, & Matt would be a great crew.

Buck & McCarver are horrible and one of the worst #1 crews in any sport. They are only 2nd to Buck & Aikman IMO.

I don't really have much of an opinion about Buck & McCarver except to say I am used to their voices so that's a part that I do like. Although McCarvers sometimes is annoying. Matt Vasgersians voice though is so extreme it almost sounds fake and it irritates me for that reason. I like the guy who does games with Joe Morgan for ESPN is it Jon Miller? He gets me feeling like this is a game and not a tv production, kind of like Keith Jackson in college football and Marv Albert in basketball (Jordan for 2 yessss). And I also like Harold Reynolds on PBP, but of course I am a big Reynolds fan and his knowledge of the game anyway.

MWM
10-25-2008, 01:51 PM
:yikes:

Thom is the poster child for the bratty, whiney, no-nothing kid that's riding Dad's coattails.

Can we send him back to Arizona for $25K?

Rem

Wow, for once I'm in agreement with Rem. Thom is awful, IMO.

Tony Cloninger
10-26-2008, 02:56 AM
So way more than half of the population does not like these 2....but this Fox Sports Director does....so we can all eat cake then?

Hello to Mike Brown of Sports Directors.....other people know more than you and their opinions do matter. Maybe he should be the one who is fired.

Cyclone792
10-26-2008, 12:44 PM
Bob Costas for pbp. Al Leiter and Tony Gwynn for color commentary.

I've always thought it was weird that Joe Buck, who doesn't even care for baseball, has called every World Series for over a decade while Bob Costas, who absolutely loves baseball, hasn't been heard on a baseball broadcast for probably over a decade.

WMR
10-26-2008, 12:53 PM
Bob Costas for pbp. Al Leiter and Tony Gwynn for color commentary.

I've always thought it was weird that Joe Buck, who doesn't even care for baseball, has called every World Series for over a decade while Bob Costas, who absolutely loves baseball, hasn't been heard on a baseball broadcast for probably over a decade.

Bud. Selig. :rolleyes:

OldRightHander
10-26-2008, 02:12 PM
Bob Costas for pbp. Al Leiter and Tony Gwynn for color commentary.

I've always thought it was weird that Joe Buck, who doesn't even care for baseball, has called every World Series for over a decade while Bob Costas, who absolutely loves baseball, hasn't been heard on a baseball broadcast for probably over a decade.

Amen.

The few times I've heard Leiter do a game I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Costas is just incredibly professional no matter what sport he does. He's one of the greats.

westofyou
10-26-2008, 02:37 PM
Bud. Selig. :rolleyes:

Not all... the fact is that Bob probably wouldn't except a check from Fox and Buck will, all while he talks on and on about a game on the next day in a sport I could care less about.

It's up to Fox to provide the talent, Bud sells the rights he doesn't assign the job to the announcers.

OnBaseMachine
10-26-2008, 02:44 PM
Not all... the fact is that Bob probably wouldn't except a check from Fox and Buck will, all while he talks on and on about a game on the next day in a sport I could care less about.


Buck made me sick last night with his constant slobbering over the No Fun League. You're announcing a baseball game pal, shut up with the football talk.

WMR
10-26-2008, 02:49 PM
Not all... the fact is that Bob probably wouldn't except a check from Fox and Buck will, all while he talks on and on about a game on the next day in a sport I could care less about.

It's up to Fox to provide the talent, Bud sells the rights he doesn't assign the job to the announcers.

You are right.

It just seems as though a competent commissioner would work with their biggest broadcasting partner to satisfy their customers when so many fans have the same complaint about the company broadcasting their sport's premier event... but then again, we are typing about Bud aren't we. :D

westofyou
10-26-2008, 03:25 PM
You are right.

It just seems as though a competent commissioner would work with their biggest broadcasting partner to satisfy their customers when so many fans have the same complaint about the company broadcasting their sport's premier event... but then again, we are typing about Bud aren't we. :D

Bud doesn't make the decisions, the biggest bid was and will be the one the owners write off on, they are into the money, not questioning the announcers, though I wish they'd pay some lip service to that part of the presentation of the premier event in the game.


Buck made me sick last night with his constant slobbering over the No Fun League. You're announcing a baseball game pal, shut up with the football talk.

Shilling constantly was he not?

He reminded me of the idiot who stands behind you at a concert and talks real loud about the last time he saw the band and how good that was.

WMR
10-26-2008, 03:33 PM
He reminded me of the idiot who stands behind you at a concert and talks real loud about the last time he saw the band and how good that was.

:laugh:

That's perfect! :D

RedsManRick
10-26-2008, 03:34 PM
Bob Costas for pbp. Al Leiter and Tony Gwynn for color commentary.

I've always thought it was weird that Joe Buck, who doesn't even care for baseball, has called every World Series for over a decade while Bob Costas, who absolutely loves baseball, hasn't been heard on a baseball broadcast for probably over a decade.

Great call. Leiter did some postseason work a few years back and it was a revelation.

OldRightHander
10-26-2008, 04:39 PM
He reminded me of the idiot who stands behind you at a concert and talks real loud about the last time he saw the band and how good that was.

Or the idiot who will sit next to you at a ball game and want to tell you about his job. I go to a ball game to get away from things like that for a few hours.

remdog
10-26-2008, 09:05 PM
Bob Costas for pbp. Al Leiter and Tony Gwynn for color commentary.

I've always thought it was weird that Joe Buck, who doesn't even care for baseball, has called every World Series for over a decade while Bob Costas, who absolutely loves baseball, hasn't been heard on a baseball broadcast for probably over a decade.


I agree with that. Although Tony Gwynn's voice reminds me of fingernails on a chalk board. You'd think that for a guy his size he would have a lower octive.

Rem

BoydsOfSummer
10-26-2008, 09:26 PM
Buck is fairly unobtrusive though, which is good. He's easy to tune out for me. Something I wish Grande was. McCarver is way harder to ignore--like Joe Morgan. I'm probably one of the few who would rather have Buck than most of those magpie types.

Raisor
10-26-2008, 09:56 PM
Great call. Leiter did some postseason work a few years back and it was a revelation.

Leiter was quite awesome.

Vada Pinson Fan
10-26-2008, 10:17 PM
I can tolerate Buck but Tim McCarver drives me up a wall!!!! McCarver is such a master of the obvious. Johnny Bench should have had McCarver's gig years ago... if Bench wanted it.

OldRightHander
10-26-2008, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't mind Jon Miller, if they could pair him with someone else.

BoydsOfSummer
10-26-2008, 10:30 PM
I'd rather have Buck than Miller. Seriously.

OldRightHander
10-26-2008, 10:31 PM
I'd rather have Buck than Miller. Seriously.

But compared to McCarver...

blumj
10-26-2008, 11:18 PM
Leiter was quite awesome.
He does some of the Yankee games for YES now. They rotate a bunch of guys: Leiter, Paul O'Neil, David Cone, and a few others. They're all pretty good.

Raisor
10-27-2008, 09:03 AM
I wouldn't mind Jon Miller, if they could pair him with someone else.

Miller and Leiter would be a great team.

TRF
10-27-2008, 09:37 AM
How would you rank the 2nd/3rd generation broadcasters? Off the top of my head I can think of 4 announcers plus 1 talking head.

Announcers in no particular order:

Chip Caray
Thom Brennaman
Joe Buck
Kenny Albert

Talking head

Jeremy Schaap

I'm sure there are others, but they don't immediately come to mind.

bucksfan2
10-27-2008, 09:40 AM
How would you rank the 2nd/3rd generation broadcasters? Off the top of my head I can think of 4 announcers plus 1 talking head.

Announcers in no particular order:

Chip Caray
Thom Brennaman
Joe Buck
Kenny Albert

Talking head

Jeremy Schaap

I'm sure there are others, but they don't immediately come to mind.

I like Brennaman. I really despise Buck. He has this era of arrogance about him. He is where he is because of his dad and his last name. I really hate listening to him and Troy Aikman doing football games on Fox.

Not a big fan of Albert. To be honest I really hadn't heard him much until last night and he sounded just like his dad and I don't like his dad.

Raisor
10-27-2008, 09:44 AM
I know I'm one of the few, but I like Chip Carey.


There, I said it.

RollyInRaleigh
10-27-2008, 10:02 AM
I like him too. Much better than Joe Buck.

TRF
10-27-2008, 10:49 AM
I loathe Jeremy Schaap. Tries too hard to mimic the speaking cadence of his father, who it worked for. Jeremy Schaap is like a Borgman cartoon of Dick Schaap

Highlifeman21
10-27-2008, 11:10 AM
I loathe Jeremy Schaap. Tries too hard to mimic the speaking cadence of his father, who it worked for. Jeremy Schaap is like a Borgman cartoon of Dick Schaap

I loved when Bobby Knight made fun of Jeremy Schaap multiple times during the formal sit-down type/style interviews.

I think Jeremy Schaap and Jimmy Roberts are twins.

They both need to go away.

MWM
10-27-2008, 11:34 AM
Yeah, Jeremy Schaap is probably the most egregious version of nepotism in all of the sports media. He's awful.

cumberlandreds
10-27-2008, 12:05 PM
I know I'm one of the few, but I like Chip Carey.


There, I said it.

I one of the few too. He's not great but he's not bad either. I think a lot of folks here don't like him because he once broadcast for the Cubs.
Of TRF's list Kenny Albert is the best. Brennamen wouldbe better if wouldn't be such a bulldog about everything. I guess he takes it after the old man though.
Joe Buck is much better at football. FOX needs to just limit him to that. He can't hold his daddys jock as far as baseball is concerned.
And Jeremy Schaap is just bad and needs to go away.

Roy Tucker
10-27-2008, 01:23 PM
Jack Buck wore a jock when he announced? ;)

I think I've gotten to the point where I just tune out announcers if they are inanely babbling. A skill carefully honed after being a being a husband and father for over 20 years. :)

I thought the TBS guys were pretty decent. Chip Carey got a little too excited sometimes, but the color guys (Martinez, Gwynn, Darling) were pretty good. The Fox guys are just blah. Joe Buck is a just a voice in the background and I've long gotten over McCarver trying to be profound.

I'd love to hear Bob Costas or Vin Sculley do the WS, but that ain't going to happen. Mostly, I watch the games and notice a lot of stuff the announcers don't and I wonder why.

NJReds
10-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Ron Darling did some Mets games this year and was very good. He may have been on some of the TBS playoff games as well.

cumberlandreds
10-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Ron Darling did some Mets games this year and was very good. He may have been on some of the TBS playoff games as well.

Darling is someone who has really improved. He did the Nats games the first year they were in DC. He was bad then. Hardly said a word. But the Nats are so bad they can leave you speechless. :) He did do some TBS playoff games.

mbgrayson
10-27-2008, 09:12 PM
I continue to really dislike Tim McCarver. I keep watching the Series, and then I unmute the sound when something happens. It is rarely more than a few minutes before McCarver says something that makes me roll my eyes, and I have to mute the sound again. It has been a quiet Series, again ....

Please FoxSports, can we have anyone else?

Highlifeman21
10-27-2008, 10:38 PM
What in the blue Hell is Buck talking about?

He has no idea about baseball's rules about suspending games and when they would have called the game due to weather.

Ron Madden
10-28-2008, 02:38 AM
I think I've gotten to the point where I just tune out announcers if they are inanely babbling. A skill carefully honed after being a being a husband and father for over 20 years. :)

I thought the TBS guys were pretty decent. Chip Carey got a little too excited sometimes, but the color guys (Martinez, Gwynn, Darling) were pretty good. The Fox guys are just blah. Joe Buck is a just a voice in the background and I've long gotten over McCarver trying to be profound.

I'd love to hear Bob Costas or Vin Sculley do the WS, but that ain't going to happen. Mostly, I watch the games and notice a lot of stuff the announcers don't and I wonder why.


I'm Ron Madden and I approve this message.


;)

Chip R
10-30-2008, 10:16 AM
I usually tune out these guys but McCarver was in rare form last night. They were talking about how the Rays were at a disadvantage because they would have to use a pinch hitter. Then he said something like, "If this had happened in Tampa, they wouldn't have had to pinch hit." Gee, Tim, you think there would have been a rain delay and suspended game at the Trop?

Roy Tucker
10-30-2008, 11:24 AM
I usually tune out these guys but McCarver was in rare form last night. They were talking about how the Rays were at a disadvantage because they would have to use a pinch hitter. Then he said something like, "If this had happened in Tampa, they wouldn't have had to pinch hit." Gee, Tim, you think there would have been a rain delay and suspended game at the Trop?

I was watching the game with my daughter and she heard this and said "what???". She asked me how they were being penalized and I said "awww, that's just boy genius McCarver talking out his butt".

cumberlandreds
10-30-2008, 11:25 AM
I usually tune out these guys but McCarver was in rare form last night. They were talking about how the Rays were at a disadvantage because they would have to use a pinch hitter. Then he said something like, "If this had happened in Tampa, they wouldn't have had to pinch hit." Gee, Tim, you think there would have been a rain delay and suspended game at the Trop?

It could have sprung a huge leak. ;)

remdog
10-30-2008, 11:32 AM
I was watching the game with my daughter and she heard this and said "what???". She asked me how they were being penalized and I said "awww, that's just boy genius McCarver talking out his butt".

I heard the same thing and thought, 'well gee, Tim, if they didn't have the DH in the AL then it wouldn't matter, would it?

Rem