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OnBaseMachine
11-07-2008, 10:25 AM
Right now it looks like the candidates are Carlos Fisher, Sam LeCure, Ramon Geronimo, Shaun Cumberland, Michael Griffin, Robert Manuel, and Sean Henry with Justin Mallett and James Avery as other possibilities. Right now it looks like the Reds have six open spots on the roster and maybe more if they drop Majewski. So, who do you think the Reds will or should protect?

For me, Carlos Fisher, Sam Lecure, Robert Manuel, and Sean Henry are the locks. I like Cumberland and Geronimo but I don't think they would stick on a 25-man roster all season long.

princeton
11-07-2008, 10:52 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72213&page=2&highlight=princeton+rule

Matt Maloney certainly makes it

OnBaseMachine
11-07-2008, 11:06 AM
My fault. I forgot about that thread. Pedro Viola should be protected too.

BRM
11-07-2008, 11:10 AM
My fault. I forgot about that thread. Pedro Viola should be protected too.

You gotta make sure there's room for the Andy Phillips and Jolbert Cabrera types though.

OnBaseMachine
11-07-2008, 11:13 AM
You gotta make sure there's room for the Andy Phillips and Jolbert Cabrera types though.

You gotta create two spots for Andy - one for him and one for his dangerous bat.

BRM
11-07-2008, 11:14 AM
You gotta create two spots for Andy - one for him and one for his dangerous bat.

No doubt. The guy is a beast at the plate.

Orenda
11-07-2008, 11:25 AM
does anybody know what is going on with Tyler Pelland? Is he going to be kept on the 40 man roster?

HokieRed
11-07-2008, 12:16 PM
This is an interesting question, but I'm trying to be sure I have the whole roster of candidates in mind. Is it Fisher, Maloney, Cumberland, Henry, Lecure, Manuel, Geronimo, Viola, Griffin, Pelland, Mallett, Avery? Those 12? For how many spots? 6 at present?

camisadelgolf
11-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Yeah, I believe there are six spots available (although I expect a few more to open up within the next few weeks). Ty Pelland is already on the 40-man roster, by the way. Anyway, here are the candidates that I'm aware of:

Jon Adkins
Drew T. Anderson
Drew M. Anderson
Henry Arias
Leo Astorga
James Avery
Luis Bolivar
Efrain Contreras
Shaun Cumberland
Mike DeJesus
Misael DeJesus
Raul De La Cruz
Chris Denove
Eric Eymann
Carlos Fisher
Ramon Geronimo
Jerry Gil
Rafael Gonzalez
Mike Griffin
Sean Henry
Jeff Kennard
Chris Kroski
Sam LeCure
Jake Long
Justin Mallett
Matt Maloney
Robert Manuel
Junior Martinez
Ruben Medina
Carlos Mendez
Luis Montano
Gustavo Omana
Logan Ondrusek
Adam Pettyjohn
Denis Phipps
Juan Rafael
Yuber Rodriguez
Jesus Ruiz
Hector Santana
Alex Smit
Humberto Sosa
B.J. Szymanski
Justin Tordi
Phil Valiquette
Camilo Vazquez
Pedro Viola
Terrell Young

redsof72
11-07-2008, 01:34 PM
Bailey, Pelland, Tatum, and Thompson along with Alonso were the minor leaguers who were recalled at the end of the season (meaning they were kept on the 40 man). Livingston was outrighted and then became a six year free agent so he is gone, at least for the moment. Viola would not be among the candidates. He has only played three years and would not have to be protected. There are some other players that will be up for the Rule V draft if not protected but would be extremely unlikely candidates, such as Eymann, Rafael Gonzalez, Terrell Young.

Edit: Ok, this was addressed in detail just before I posted. Sorry.

OnBaseMachine
11-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Who the heck is Gustavo Omana?

Nevermind. I found his player page...it seems he only played for the VSL Reds last season.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=32550

RedsUp
11-07-2008, 06:22 PM
Valiquette was drafted at 17, he will not be eligible for rule V drafting untill next year.

HokieRed
11-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Camisadelgolf, Reds of 72, OBM, and RedsUp. For me, in hierarchical order: 1. Fisher, 2. Maloney, 3. Manuel, 4. Henry, 5. LeCure, 6. Cumberland. I hope we can protect all of them, especially the first 5. I think any of them could get taken and probably will be able to stick on the right 25 man roster.

camisadelgolf
11-07-2008, 08:50 PM
Valiquette was drafted at 17, he will not be eligible for rule V drafting untill next year.

That means that he gets an extra year, and 2004-2008 = five years of professional baseball. For the rule five draft, the year a player was drafted and signed count towards his eligibility.

And redsof72 is absolutely right about Viola. I thought he was signed just before the 2005 season for some reason.

camisadelgolf
11-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Who the heck is Gustavo Omana?

Nevermind. I found his player page...it seems he only played for the VSL Reds last season.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=32550

Omana is probably no longer with the organization (where did he play in 2008?), but I never saw anywhere that he was released. The same thing goes for Jesus Ruiz and Raul De La Cruz.

mth123
11-07-2008, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Camisadelgolf, Reds of 72, OBM, and RedsUp. For me, in hierarchical order: 1. Fisher, 2. Maloney, 3. Manuel, 4. Henry, 5. LeCure, 6. Cumberland. I hope we can protect all of them, especially the first 5. I think any of them could get taken and probably will be able to stick on the right 25 man roster.

Agree. I'd add that Andy Phillips and Tyler Pelland should be let go or sent down to make room. Matt Belisle and Gary Majewski wll probably be non-tendered as well. That makes 4 more spots. Craig Tatum could also be on the bubble and Norris Hopper may not be a sure thing either.

camisadelgolf
11-07-2008, 09:43 PM
Agree. I'd add that Andy Phillips and Tyler Pelland should be let go or sent down to make room. Matt Belisle and Gary Majewski wll probably be non-tendered as well. That makes 4 more spots. Craig Tatum could also be on the bubble and Norris Hopper may not be a sure thing either.

I think Tatum is closer to a sure thing that you think. The Reds' catching depth is weak anyway, but without Tatum, until they sign someone, the Reds have no one to catch at AAA without embarrassing themselves.

mth123
11-07-2008, 09:58 PM
I think Tatum is closer to a sure thing that you think. The Reds' catching depth is weak anyway, but without Tatum, until they sign someone, the Reds have no one to catch at AAA without embarrassing themselves.

NO way anybody drafts Tatum and no way he sticks if they do.

Mario-Rijo
11-08-2008, 06:34 AM
NO way anybody drafts Tatum and no way he sticks if they do.

I'd probably have to agree with that notion. I remember hearing how he didn't look ready for AAA at all when he got there. And that wasn't really all that long ago.

princeton
11-08-2008, 07:28 AM
NO way anybody drafts Tatum and no way he sticks if they do.

I'm no Tatum fan, but there are many really bad catchers in the bigs (Reds had three last year), and Tatum's cheaper than many of them.

mth123
11-08-2008, 07:45 AM
I'm no Tatum fan, but there are many really bad catchers in the bigs (Reds had three last year), and Tatum's cheaper than many of them.

Tatum is a good defender and I suppose I could see a scenario where some team with an established vet as the starter would let Tatum sit on the bench in a Chad Moeller role. With Hanigan looking like one catcher for the Reds, no way that Tatum will be the other. Since I think its doubtful that the Reds could get anything at all in trade it simply comes down to whether or not the Reds need to roster spot since Tatum is likely to be no use to the major league team. I'd rather have an open spot to gamble in rule 5 on a Tatum equivalent that plays SS or a young pitcher with stuff.

princeton
11-08-2008, 08:25 AM
Tatum is a good defender and I suppose I could see a scenario where some team with an established vet as the starter would let Tatum sit on the bench in a Chad Moeller role. With Hanigan looking like one catcher for the Reds, no way that Tatum will be the other. Since I think its doubtful that the Reds could get anything at all in trade it simply comes down to whether or not the Reds need to roster spot since Tatum is likely to be no use to the major league team. I'd rather have an open spot to gamble in rule 5 on a Tatum equivalent that plays SS or a young pitcher with stuff.

Tatum is already on the 40 man. To take him off requires that he pass through waivers. That allows a team to claim him for only $10K if that team has a 40 man spot. He wouldn't have to play in majors. So he's more attractive than a Rule 5 claim.

Reds don't have a lot of talent that's worth protecting this year, IMO. That'll change next season. I suspect that Tatum's spot on 40 man is probably safe, for now.

lollipopcurve
11-08-2008, 08:48 AM
Reds don't have a lot of talent that's worth protecting this year, IMO. That'll change next season. I suspect that Tatum's spot on 40 man is probably safe, for now.

I hope they protect him. A good defensive catcher has worth, and Tatum's bat may yet improve a bit. One of Krivsky's underappreciated moves was placing Hanigan on the 40-man -- I can't remember a single post supporting that transaction.

AmarilloRed
11-12-2008, 01:37 AM
Bobby Livingston was removed from the 40 man roster, so that opens up another slot for one of our prospects.

mth123
11-20-2008, 04:59 AM
Today is the deadline. Should see some roster moves.

From Cots:




Rule 5 Draft
The Rule 5 draft is held each December at the Winter Meetings, and it consists of a Major League portion and a minor league portion. By November 20, each club must set its 40-man roster and submit reserve lists for all major and minor-league levels (See Minor League Rosters). Between November 20 and the Rule 5 draft, a club may add Major League free agents to its 40-man roster but may not add any player from its minor league reserve lists.



Last day for Gary Majewski, Andy Phillips, Matt Belisle and Norris Hopper?

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2008, 05:01 AM
Today is the deadline. Should see some roster moves.

From Cots:



Last day for Gary Majewski, Andy Phillips, Matt Belisle and Norris Hopper?

We can hope, cross your fingers!

princeton
11-20-2008, 09:48 AM
I figure that the Reds would have named roster earlier in the week, but that there's been an outside chance of a trade

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 11:23 AM
Last day for Gary Majewski, Andy Phillips, Matt Belisle and Norris Hopper?

We can only hope.

BRM
11-20-2008, 11:26 AM
We can only hope.

Yep. So we can replace them with the likes of Juan Castro.

batsfan
11-20-2008, 12:11 PM
Last day for Ty Pelland? Nope, that was yesterday, when he was oughrighted to l-ville.

redsmetz
11-20-2008, 12:45 PM
Unless I've miscounted, I'm seeing the roster at 33 as of today.

BRM
11-20-2008, 12:48 PM
Unless I've miscounted, I'm seeing the roster at 33 as of today.

That's what I see. And that includes the 4 players listed in mth123's post.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 12:50 PM
Last day for Ty Pelland? Nope, that was yesterday, when he was oughrighted to l-ville.

Yep, I just noticed he's no longer on the Reds 40-man roster.

The current roster is down to 33 as redsmetz pointed out. I'd at least cut it down to 31 by cutting Hopper and Majewski.

BRM
11-20-2008, 12:55 PM
Yep, I just noticed he's no longer on the Reds 40-man roster.

The current roster is down to 33 as redsmetz pointed out. I'd at least cut it down to 31 by cutting Hopper and Majewski.

Dusty said Norris hits the ball real hard though. And he's very fast.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 01:09 PM
Dusty said Norris hits the ball real hard though. And he's very fast.

Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing Norris knock the cover off the ball on a couple of his bunts.

BRM
11-20-2008, 01:18 PM
""Boy, [Norris Hopper] can hit that ball hard. He's a strong little dude," Baker said. "The ball made a loud sound. I use my ears a lot. I can tell what kind of bat speed [he] has by that sound."

kpresidente
11-20-2008, 01:26 PM
You guys are too hard on Hopper.

BRM
11-20-2008, 01:28 PM
You guys are too hard on Hopper.

All I'm doing is repeating what Baker said about him.

batsfan
11-20-2008, 01:29 PM
I really just got in to reds baseball this year, so could someone explane why people seem to think hopper suck because he hit 200 this year, even though he hit 300+ in 07 and 06?

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 01:32 PM
I really just got in to reds baseball this year, so could someone explane why people seem to think hopper suck because he hit 200 this year, even though he hit 300+ in 07 and 06?

Its not that he sucks, its that he is easily replacable. He can hit .300ish, but its because he can bunt. Basically he is a slap hitter who is a 5th outfielder because he isn't a starter and Ryan Freel's contract dictates he stays because the Reds aren't going to eat 4 million bucks. Slap hitting 5th outfielders are easily replacable, especially if it is the difference between protecting actual talent that will play more than 20 times a year in the future.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 05:56 PM
I guess the Reds are waiting until the very last minute to reveal their roster moves.

Matt700wlw
11-20-2008, 06:17 PM
From the Reds:

Today the Reds added to their 40-man roster RHP Carlos Fisher, IF Juan Francisco, RHP Sam Lecure, LHP Matt Maloney and RHP Robert Manuel... the Reds also outrighted off the roster LHP Tyler Pelland, while IF Andy Phillips refused an outright assignment and elected free agency...the Reds’ roster includes 37 players.

BRM
11-20-2008, 06:21 PM
No Cumberland or Henry. That leaves them unprotected in the Rule 5, right?

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 06:22 PM
No Cumberland or Henry. That leaves them unprotected in the Rule 5, right?

I believe that it does.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Cumberland I can understand, but I would have protected Henry. I could see him sticking on a roster as a 5th outfielder. I was unaware that Juan Francisco had to be protected already.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Cumberland I can understand, but I would have protected Henry. I could see him sticking on a roster as a 5th outfielder. I was unaware that Juan Francisco had to be protected already.

Me too, but he signed at age 16, so I guess that does make sense.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 06:37 PM
The Reds just now updated their active roster on Reds.com. Carlos Fisher, Juan Francisco, Sam Lecure, Matt Maloney, and Robert Manuel are now showing up on the Reds roster. They also re-moved Wilkin Castillo from the infielder category and placed him under the catcher category.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/roster_active.jsp?c_id=cin

princeton
11-20-2008, 06:50 PM
The Reds just now updated their active roster on Reds.com. Carlos Fisher, Juan Francisco, Sam Lecure, Matt Maloney, and Robert Manuel are now showing up on the Reds roster. They also re-moved Wilkin Castillo from the infielder category and placed him under the catcher category.


I thought that Henry would nose out Manuel.

you learn stuff this time of year.

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2008, 06:53 PM
I hope Henry doesn't get swiped that would stink.

Tom Servo
11-20-2008, 06:57 PM
I'd say that Krivsky's trade of Dave Williams for Robert Manuel was a win.

princeton
11-20-2008, 06:59 PM
I hope Henry doesn't get swiped that would stink.

Reds don't seem the least bit concerned.

princeton
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
I'd say that Krivsky's trade of Dave Williams for Robert Manuel was a win.


and that Jeff Conine trade didn't work out?

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 07:02 PM
Don't forget Calvin Medlock and Shackelford for Shaun Cumberland and Jorge Cantu.

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2008, 07:04 PM
Reds don't seem the least bit concerned.

They also think Majewski is worthy of a 40 man spot, so forgive me if I don't appreciate their intelligence fully. ;)

But my guess is they don't believe he can currently stick at the major league level. I still think though he would eventually be a good solid 2B/OF who would be solid in every way off the bench.

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2008, 07:24 PM
I wonder what TB and the like will leave available for picking through. I think Walt is definitely gonna pick at least 1 player up in the rule 5. Where will we pick, same as the standings?

camisadelgolf
11-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Sean Henry = this year's Carlos Guevara?

Orenda
11-20-2008, 11:22 PM
Sean Henry = this year's Carlos Guevara?

Well if you do a bit of a flashback he could be. Of course you have to keep in mind that Guevara was very successful in AA and that the reds wanted an open slot to select.....? Valenzuela somebody who didn't last through ST. I guess it depends on if they lose him and/or who they gain through the rule 5 draft or free agency.

corkedbat
11-20-2008, 11:31 PM
That is one scary utility-laden 40-man.

I can see the lineup come August, with Votto, Bruce, EdE and Phillips banged up.

1B Keppinger
2B Richar
SS Janish
3B Gonzalez
LF Rosales
CF Hopper
RF Freel
CA Castillo

Scrappilicious! :D

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 02:39 AM
Sean Henry = this year's Carlos Guevara?

In what way?

mth123
11-21-2008, 02:39 AM
I'm surprised Belisle is still around. He earned $1.2 Million in 2008 and the Reds can only cut his dollars on a Major league deal to I believe 70% of his 2008 deal. Since he's likely ticketed for AAA again, that sounds like a non-tender in the making. Why not just cut bait now and open a spot for Henry? I think the team should have protected Henry.

Some names that interest me that weren't protected:

James Skelton - C. He's a LH hitter who may fit with Hanigan. He only has 85 ABs in AA but he's had an 800+ OPS whereever he's played and had a good fall season in Hawaii. I'd take a chance on him. If you could get him through the season with some DL and rehab time in AAA, he'd be the team's top catching prospect. He could make up for lost playing time in winter ball next year. With Owings around to add an extra bat, the Reds could afford a roster spot for a guy with potential.

Chuck Lofgren - LHP. He was a top prospect a year ago. He had a horrible year, but what the heck. The Reds need a lefty.

Kevin Whelan - RHP. Control challenged reliever who I wouldn't mind the Reds having, but no way he can stick in the majors. I probably wouldn't waste a pick on him.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 02:50 AM
Skelton is very interesting. He's got awesome plate discipline (83 BB/73 K in 297 atbats in '08) but not much power (.401 SLG). His name should be skeleton because that's what he is. He's listed at 5-foot-11 and 165 pounds but scouts think he's smaller than that. I did some research on him a little while ago and found this:

Recently joining Ramirez at Double-A Erie has been catcher James Skelton, who baffles scouts because there's just been no precedent for a player like him. Skelton hit .307/.468/.406 at High-A Lakeland and drew 64 walks in 282 PA there, but few players elicit more wide-ranging opinions. He has very little power, and at 5-foot-11 and 165 pounds, he's bone-thin and just doesn't look right when he gears up and crouches behind the plate. A scout who has been following Skelton for years remains unsure what to make of him, and finds it nearly impossible (as do many who have seen him), to get past the slender body. "He has me scratching my head twenty times and flipping coins," joked the scout. "He has a feel for hitting, there's no question about it, and he has catch-and-throw, receiving, and on-base skills. When you see him, there has to be durability questions—I don't even think he's as big as listed." Asked what could be done, the scout remained baffled, and admitted that he had some hopes of a position change in Skelton's future. "Hell, if he was a second baseman, I'd love him," he joked.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7938

I also like the idea of picking up a Whelan. He's the type of arm that can possibly stick ala Burton.

mth123
11-21-2008, 03:07 AM
Skelton is very interesting. He's got awesome plate discipline (83 BB/73 K in 297 atbats in '08) but not much power (.401 SLG). His name should be skeleton because that's what he is. He's listed at 5-foot-11 and 165 pounds but scouts think he's smaller than that. I did some research on him a little while ago and found this:

Recently joining Ramirez at Double-A Erie has been catcher James Skelton, who baffles scouts because there's just been no precedent for a player like him. Skelton hit .307/.468/.406 at High-A Lakeland and drew 64 walks in 282 PA there, but few players elicit more wide-ranging opinions. He has very little power, and at 5-foot-11 and 165 pounds, he's bone-thin and just doesn't look right when he gears up and crouches behind the plate. A scout who has been following Skelton for years remains unsure what to make of him, and finds it nearly impossible (as do many who have seen him), to get past the slender body. "He has me scratching my head twenty times and flipping coins," joked the scout. "He has a feel for hitting, there's no question about it, and he has catch-and-throw, receiving, and on-base skills. When you see him, there has to be durability questions—I don't even think he's as big as listed." Asked what could be done, the scout remained baffled, and admitted that he had some hopes of a position change in Skelton's future. "Hell, if he was a second baseman, I'd love him," he joked.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7938

I also like the idea of picking up a Whelan. He's the type of arm that can possibly stick ala Burton.

I've heard the knock on Skelton's size before. If he has the skills to catch and hit a little, I wouldn't care. I'd pick him and let him share the job and not worry whether he could hold up day in and day out. These days the catcher spot is usually filled by a tandem who share the job. As a LH hitter with actual catching skills, he's rare. I'd leave him there and figure on him being a 60 to 70 or so start a year guy and see if he fills out a little. With Hanigan to play against lefties and maybe some righties and Castillo to fill in against RH on the days when Skelton needs a rest, it could work. I'd buy him a Big Mac, Fries and a Chocolate Shake every day and not worry about him being too small.

With the lack of catching talent, he probably won't last until the Reds pick anyway.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 03:27 AM
I've heard the knock on Skelton's size before. If he has the skills to catch and hit a little, I wouldn't care. I'd pick him and let him share the job and not worry whether he could hold up day in and day out. These days the catcher spot is usually filled by a tandem who share the job. As a LH hitter with actual catching skills, he's rare. I'd leave him there and figure on him being a 60 to 70 or so start a year guy and see if he fills out a little. With Hanigan to play against lefties and maybe some righties and Castillo to fill in against RH on the days when Skelton needs a rest, it could work. I'd buy him a Big Mac, Fries and a Chocolate Shake every day and not worry about him being too small.

With the lack of catching talent, he probably won't last until the Reds pick anyway.

I agree he sounds like a very good possibility. But Does Wilkin Castillo's presence make them pass if he is ava.? It probably shouldn't but it might. I would certainly give him a shot, he sounds like a guy who would be perfect for this type of situation what with his approach at the plate. If he does look like he could play a 2B in the future and not so much catcher cross that bridge then. BTW He sounds an awful lot like a skinny but perhaps better defensive Hatteberg doesn't he.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 03:33 AM
IDK so much about Lofgren being able to stick, he had a rough go of it in AA. But here's part of his issues this past season.


Lofgren shows ace form in Aeros win
Posted May 1st, 2008 by Stephanie Storm

Left-hander Chuck Lofgren put his best outing of the season on display Thursday morning in the Aeros 6-2 victory over visiting Erie.

Despite entering the game winless at 0-2 and carrying a hefty 8.66 ERA, the 22-year old left-hander limited the aggressive SeaWolves to a run on six hits, issuing walks to three batters while striking out nine over six strong innings.

“That’s nine strikeouts against a pretty good lineup,” said Indians farm director Ross Atkins, who was on hand Thursday to see for himself Lofgren’s fifth start this season. “Chuck’s had some issues with his release point, but today he was consistent and had a better pitch distribution than he did in his previous outing.”

Lofgren’s nine strikeouts, one shy his career high, marked the most hitters he’s fanned since striking out 10 Lynchburg Hillcats on Aug. 3, 2006 while pitching for high Class-A Kinston.

“Chuck’s been working hard since spring training on maintaining a consistent release point,” Aeros pitching coach Tony Arnold said. “His last two starts, he’s thrown the ball better, but would got hurt when he’d leave a ball up.

“This time, he was able to maintain his focus. He still had spurts where he got behind in the count to a couple guys, but he was able to make the pitch he needed to make - twice with their best hitter at the plate.”


http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/aeros/2008/05/01/lofgren-shows-ace-form-in-aeros-win/

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 05:52 AM
I'm reading Zach Ward is available. Also the Marlins left Jeff Allison ava. isn't he the Allison that was an addict? He didn't look anything too special but I thought I would add his name because it rung a bell.

Some other intriguing arms to some extent.

NYY - Alan Horne (25; RH) I like Horne quite a bit but he had a terrible '08. In '07 he was pretty darn good 150 IP, 149 Hits, 165 K's, 57 BB's, 10 HR's in AA though at 24. I recall we kicked his name around last offseason.

Oak - Brad Kilby (25; LH) Looks like a solid LH out of the pen with a decent K% but maybe a bit flyballish. '07 65 IP, 63 H, 22 BB, 69 K's, 6 HR AA. '08 70 IP, 59 H, 26 BB's, 66 K's, 9 HR AAA.

Tex - Pedro Strop (23; RH) He's injured so someone will take a flier on him as they could probably get bye with DLing him for awhile as he recovers from a stress fracture in his right elbow. He's got 3 flat out nasty swing and miss pitches a mid-90s fastball with late life, a plus slider, and a nasty splitter. He injured it early in '08 so he could be ready sometime in S/T.

Here's his story:
http://newberg.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/texas_signs_pedro_strop.html

mth123
11-21-2008, 06:08 AM
I'm reading Zach Ward is available. Also the Marlins left Jeff Allison ava. isn't he the Allison that was an addict? He didn't look anything too special but I thought I would add his name because it rung a bell.

Some other intriguing arms to some extent.

NYY - Alan Horne (25; RH) I like Horne quite a bit but he had a terrible '08. In '07 he was pretty darn good 150 IP, 149 Hits, 165 K's, 57 BB's, 10 HR's in AA though at 24. I recall we kicked his name around last offseason.

Oak - Brad Kilby (25; LH) Looks like a solid LH out of the pen with a decent K% but maybe a bit flyballish. '07 65 IP, 63 H, 22 BB, 69 K's, 6 HR AA. '08 70 IP, 59 H, 26 BB's, 66 K's, 9 HR AAA.

Tex - Pedro Strop (23; RH) He's injured so someone will take a flier on him as they could probably get bye with DLing him for awhile as he recovers from a stress fracture in his right elbow. He's got 3 flat out nasty swing and miss pitches a mid-90s fastball with late life, a plus slider, and a nasty splitter. He injured it early in '08 so he could be ready sometime in S/T.

Here's his story:
http://newberg.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/texas_signs_pedro_strop.html

Horne had rotator cuff surgery.

flash
11-21-2008, 08:48 AM
If the Reds can get Skelton, yeah they can go for it as far as I am concerned. (Biggio was only 5' 11" 180 #s and he caught so it is no big deal. Is the Yankees P. J. Pilittere availible under rule five?

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 08:50 AM
Pedro Strop? Absolutely. Draft him if he's still available. Like MR said, they could stash him away on the DL for a while but he's capable of sticking on a 25-man roster when healthy. His stuff is filthy. He's got 117 strikeouts in 88 minor league innings.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Pedro-Strop.shtml

BRM
11-21-2008, 09:24 AM
Boy, I sure am glad they found room for Majewski on the 40 man. I was sweating that one.

princeton
11-21-2008, 09:27 AM
my guess is they don't believe he can currently stick at the major league level. I still think though he would eventually be a good solid 2B/OF who would be solid in every way off the bench.

my guess is that they don't believe that he'll ever be more than a so-so tweener, and the Reds always produce those in spades.

Reds have told you what they think about Henry and Cumberland, and it's that they don't foresee future impact. but perhaps Manuel's this year's Ramon Ramirez. works for me.

RedlegJake
11-21-2008, 10:36 AM
I don't sweat Majewski. With Affeldt gone, Weathers unlikely to return and Lincoln unsigned the Reds probably decided to keep him just as insurance. He's really unlikely to avoid being DFA'd if enough of the young arms push for spots. Plus it's possible some team will accept him as backend filler in a deal. Now if he's on the opening day staff then I might bust a gasket.

camisadelgolf
11-21-2008, 10:47 AM
In what way?

I meant that in the sense that a lot of people could criticize the GM for not protecting him. Sean Henry has very good numbers, just like Carlos Guevara did, but he is often said to not project as anything special. Guevara put up closer-type numbers in AA, wasn't particularly old for his league, and was left unprotected, and Sean Henry's story is somewhat similar; he consistently OPSes around .800, young for his level, and was also unprotected.

RedlegJake
11-21-2008, 11:16 AM
When it comes to protecting guys the FO has to make decisions and not look back. Look at all the rule 5 picks in total and see how many ever pan out and it's a darn high percentage of times the FO is right. The Santana rarity really slays you though if you're the losing team but all in all I wish the Reds FO were as correct in all their decisions as they are at this.

princeton
11-21-2008, 11:37 AM
When it comes to protecting guys the FO has to make decisions and not look back. Look at all the rule 5 picks in total and see how many ever pan out and it's a darn high percentage of times the FO is right.

interestingly, many of the best Rule 5 picks ever have been made in recent years. that might be a steroid era effect, increase in number of teams in baseball, more aggressiveness on part of front offices, or some other mechanism.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 12:39 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Majewski arbitration eligible? I don't see the Reds offering him arbitration. He should be gone in a few weeks IMO.

AmarilloRed
11-21-2008, 12:42 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Majewski arbitration eligible? I don't see the Reds offering him arbitration. He should be gone in a few weeks IMO.

He is. He is arbitration-eligible this off-season.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 12:47 PM
Cincinnati Reds

Added 3B Juan Francisco, LHP Matt Maloney and RHPs Carlos Fisher, Sam LeCure and Robert Manuel.

Francisco hit .277/.303/.496 with 23 home runs, 34 doubles and 92 RBIs at high Class A Sarasota, and didn’t turn 21 in the Florida State League until June 24. Maloney, acquired for Kyle Lohse in 2007, could battle for the Reds fifth starter’s job during spring training. Manuel doesn’t have overwhelming stuff, but his plus command paid off in 2008, as he earned a spot on the 40-man roster by going 6-3, 1.25 in 87 innings between high Class A and Triple-A. With only 32 men on their 40-man before the additions, the Reds didn’t have to make many tough choices. Lefthander Philippe Valiquette, the club’s seventh-round pick in 2004, is probably the most notable omission, but it was understandable seeing as he has yet to pitch above Class A, and he had a very rough (8.53 ERA, 10 BB in 13 IP) Hawaii Winter Baseball season.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1806

Kc61
11-21-2008, 01:33 PM
Cincinnati Reds

Added 3B Juan Francisco, LHP Matt Maloney and RHPs Carlos Fisher, Sam LeCure and Robert Manuel.

Francisco hit .277/.303/.496 with 23 home runs, 34 doubles and 92 RBIs at high Class A Sarasota, and didn’t turn 21 in the Florida State League until June 24. Maloney, acquired for Kyle Lohse in 2007, could battle for the Reds fifth starter’s job during spring training. Manuel doesn’t have overwhelming stuff, but his plus command paid off in 2008, as he earned a spot on the 40-man roster by going 6-3, 1.25 in 87 innings between high Class A and Triple-A. With only 32 men on their 40-man before the additions, the Reds didn’t have to make many tough choices. Lefthander Philippe Valiquette, the club’s seventh-round pick in 2004, is probably the most notable omission, but it was understandable seeing as he has yet to pitch above Class A, and he had a very rough (8.53 ERA, 10 BB in 13 IP) Hawaii Winter Baseball season.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1806

Francisco's inclusion shows one potential problem with guys being drafted and signed very young. They have to be included on the roster at a pretty young age. Similarly, Valiquette's non-inclusion -- also at a young age -- is a result of that type of drafting/signing.

redsmetz
11-21-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm pulling for Sam Lecure. He's from my wife's hometown and an alum of her high school. My brother in law plays golf with his older brother.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 01:53 PM
It looks like Pedro Viola didn't have to be protected. That's great because he's the one I really didn't want to lose. I'm hoping we can keep Sean Henry too. I think he could help the Reds bench within a year or two.

lollipopcurve
11-21-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm pulling for Sam Lecure.

Me too. Big year for him coming up, as he could find himself in direct competition with Bailey, Owings, Ramirez, etc., for the 5th starter's spot.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 03:51 PM
Horne had rotator cuff surgery.

I thought he had been injured just couldn't remember what, thanks for the info.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 04:14 PM
my guess is that they don't believe that he'll ever be more than a so-so tweener, and the Reds always produce those in spades.

Reds have told you what they think about Henry and Cumberland, and it's that they don't foresee future impact. but perhaps Manuel's this year's Ramon Ramirez. works for me.

Well that's fine but Henry IMO has a chance to be more than that. Certainly they have more info to go on so they may very well be right, but I have seen enough to doubt any MLB F.O.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Separated at birth?

http://images.chattanoogan.com/article_images/article_137964.jpghttp://redsexpert.mlblogs.com/9P2a3hjq.jpg

Robert Manuel on the left, Aaron Harang on the right.

wheels
11-21-2008, 06:16 PM
Ran into Maloney last night while he was celebrating his addition to the 40 man roster.

I was hammered, and I boldly annointed him the fifth starter, and tried to explain BABIP to him.

Holy cow. I must have been so annoying.

RED VAN HOT
11-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Regarding the failure to protect Henry, there is another way to look at it. Henry has played some CF, but has spent the majority of his ML time as a LF'er. That puts him in contention with Dorn and Heisey. IMO both would rate above him. Even more significant, however, is the potential need to move either Votto or Fraser to LF. Moreover, Bruce is established in RF. That makes Henry somewhat expendable. On the other hand, the Reds are short at C, SS, and LHP. Thus, WJ may look at this as giving up a surplus for a chance to draft a scarcity. I'd be very surprised if he did not try to fill one of these positional needs in Rule 5.

My guess is that Henry gets picked up. It is easier to carry a 5th OF that is not fully ML ready than other positions. His good AFL showing makes me believe he could contribute.

Danny Serafini
11-21-2008, 10:43 PM
It doesn't bother me if someone didn't get protected, because if there's something the Reds have been good at lately, it's guessing who other teams might want and who they won't. The only two players they've lost in the Major League portion of Rule 5 in the past five years are Tony Blanco, who after his stint with the Nats in 2005 hasn't been above AA, and Carlos Guevara, whose trick pitch earned him all of 12 innings for the Padres this year. If the Reds don't protect someone, they probably have a pretty good reason.

RedlegJake
11-22-2008, 10:07 AM
interestingly, many of the best Rule 5 picks ever have been made in recent years. that might be a steroid era effect, increase in number of teams in baseball, more aggressiveness on part of front offices, or some other mechanism.

Yeah, you're right. I bolded the main reason I see. I think maybe it's the price of players. Before utility guys/middle relievers started making 5 million a year teams weren't all that interested in Rule V because you had to keep the guy. It was more effective to let him end up a minor league free agent and sign them then, but as the premium placed on prospects has increased (because of the first years of control and cost effectiveness)teams are looking for ways to add an overlooked talent. Certainly the floodgates seem to have opened since Santana - maybe teams looked at him and decided to give some of these guys a chance when they foirmerly just thought: eh, how good can he be?

RedlegJake
11-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Ran into Maloney last night while he was celebrating his addition to the 40 man roster.

I was hammered, and I boldly annointed him the fifth starter, and tried to explain BABIP to him.

Holy cow. I must have been so annoying.

That's so funny. Had me chuckling visualizing the scene. I guess how annoying he found you depends on how hammered he was.

Mario-Rijo
11-22-2008, 03:40 PM
Ran into Maloney last night while he was celebrating his addition to the 40 man roster.

I was hammered, and I boldly annointed him the fifth starter, and tried to explain BABIP to him.

Holy cow. I must have been so annoying.

Good Stuff! :beerme:

wheels
11-22-2008, 04:11 PM
That's so funny. Had me chuckling visualizing the scene. I guess how annoying he found you depends on how hammered he was.

He's a very nice kid.

His girfriend is one of the trainers at my gym, and he works out with my trainer during the offseason, so it's not like he didn't know me anyway.

It's just that I think he's used to seeing me in agony, as opposed to my other (drunk as a king) persona.

OnBaseMachine
11-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Here are a couple other guys that interest me who were left unprotected:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/jesus-guzman.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/V/Donald-Veal.shtml

Doug also has a nice list up over on his site.

OnBaseMachine
11-24-2008, 01:05 PM
Here's a guy that interests me the most along with Veal:

Born in Cuba, Morlan was a third-round pick in 2004, signed for $420,000 and moved to the bullpen in 2006. He had one of the biggest arms in the Twins system, with a fastball that touched 97 mph at times and a mid-80s power slider. However, the 22-year-old Morlan loses fastball command when he throws that hard, and the Twins had him focused on command with a heater in the low 90s, averaging 92-93 mph. His slider remains a plus pitch; at times it has excellent two-plane depth and touches 86 mph, making it a true strikeout offering. Morlan's fastball lacks significant life, and he doesn't command the strike zone with it. While he had success in the Arizona Fall League, with 12 scoreless outings, he walked six in 12 2/3 innings, and the Twins believed his lack of fastball command—due to persistent over-throwing and over-rotating in his delivery—limited his ceiling to that of setup man, rather than closer.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eduardo%20Morlan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=461851

I'd definitely pick him up if he's available when the Reds pick.

BRM
11-24-2008, 02:15 PM
Speaking of past Rule 5 drafts, this from John Fay.



Question from Chris Sabo (I'm pretty sure it's the that Chris Sabo): With the Rule 5 draft coming up, I was wondering if you could answer a question for me: What happend to Carlos Guevara? I know he was sent down to the minors for the end of last year, why was he not sent back to Cincinnati, did the Reds refuse the deal, or what?

A: Guevara, the little left-hander with the good screwball, is still wirh the San Diego Padres, who picked in the Rule 5 draft. He went 1-0 with a 5.84 ERA. I believe the Padres offered him back and the Reds didn't take him. I couldn't find the exact transaction. But he was assigned to Triple-A Portland on July 8. He went 0-3 with 6.50 ERA at Portland.


Guevara is actually right-handed. Was he really offered back to the Reds and the Reds declined?

OnBaseMachine
11-24-2008, 02:17 PM
Speaking of past Rule 5 drafts, this from John Fay.

Guevara is actually right-handed. Was he really offered back to the Reds and the Reds declined?

Yep. He was offered back to the Reds sometime during the summer IIRC and the Reds declined.

BRM
11-24-2008, 02:18 PM
Thanks OBM.

dougdirt
11-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Here's a guy that interests me the most along with Veal:

Born in Cuba, Morlan was a third-round pick in 2004, signed for $420,000 and moved to the bullpen in 2006. He had one of the biggest arms in the Twins system, with a fastball that touched 97 mph at times and a mid-80s power slider. However, the 22-year-old Morlan loses fastball command when he throws that hard, and the Twins had him focused on command with a heater in the low 90s, averaging 92-93 mph. His slider remains a plus pitch; at times it has excellent two-plane depth and touches 86 mph, making it a true strikeout offering. Morlan's fastball lacks significant life, and he doesn't command the strike zone with it. While he had success in the Arizona Fall League, with 12 scoreless outings, he walked six in 12 2/3 innings, and the Twins believed his lack of fastball command—due to persistent over-throwing and over-rotating in his delivery—limited his ceiling to that of setup man, rather than closer.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eduardo%20Morlan&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=461851

I'd definitely pick him up if he's available when the Reds pick.

Morlan saw a significant drop in his velocity this year. He was working 88-90 and his slider was in the high 70's to low 80's at the end of the season. I am not sure I would take a chance on him at this point.

OnBaseMachine
11-24-2008, 02:27 PM
I was unaware of the velocity drop. Thanks Doug.

camisadelgolf
11-24-2008, 03:11 PM
About Guevara, he was offered to the Reds, and the Reds traded him for cash or a PTBNL. In other words, the Padres paid $50,000 to draft him, and they paid more money (but probably not much more) to keep him.

lollipopcurve
11-24-2008, 03:22 PM
About Guevara, he was offered to the Reds, and the Reds traded him for cash or a PTBNL. In other words, the Padres paid $50,000 to draft him, and they paid more money (but probably not much more) to keep him.

And he is not on the Padres' 40-man roster. They're probably hoping to recoup their investment in this year's Rule V.

Ben
11-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Is Lofgren hurt? If not, he'd be my pick in Rule V

RED VAN HOT
11-24-2008, 11:33 PM
Is Lofgren hurt? If not, he'd be my pick in Rule V

I may not understand all of the nuances of Rule 5, but it seems to me that the Reds may draft more than one. They have the roster space to do it. For $50K per pick they can have a look at them in the spring and determine if one can be carried for a season.

RedlegJake
11-25-2008, 09:16 AM
I may not understand all of the nuances of Rule 5, but it seems to me that the Reds may draft more than one. They have the roster space to do it. For $50K per pick they can have a look at them in the spring and determine if one can be carried for a season.

Sure, and if they don't pan out for the 25 man you can offer them back for half that. If you really like the player quite often an inexpensive deal can be worked out. Cash or PTBNL, as in Guevara's case.

camisadelgolf
11-25-2008, 10:24 AM
I may not understand all of the nuances of Rule 5, but it seems to me that the Reds may draft more than one. They have the roster space to do it. For $50K per pick they can have a look at them in the spring and determine if one can be carried for a season.

I could be wrong, but I believe there are two rounds to the Major League portion of the draft.

princeton
11-26-2008, 09:46 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe there are two rounds to the Major League portion of the draft.

there can be more than two rounds. there simply can be no more than 40 rounds, because a team has to have a 40 man roster spot for each pick, and must pick one player in each round.

JimBo picked three players one year.

dougdirt
11-30-2008, 11:26 PM
From a Reds source - Pedro Viola is NOT eligible to be drafted in the Rule 5 draft this year, thus left off the 40 man.

Mario-Rijo
12-01-2008, 09:20 AM
I could be wrong, but I believe there are two rounds to the Major League portion of the draft.

Isn't there also a minor league portion? How does that all work? Does it still require a 40 man slot? Not asking you Cam but just using your post as a segway to my question.

camisadelgolf
12-01-2008, 09:31 AM
Isn't there also a minor league portion? How does that all work? Does it still require a 40 man slot? Not asking you Cam but just using your post as a segway to my question.

Yeah, the rule five draft has two minor league phases. A player who isn't protected on his team's 40-man roster, 38-man AAA reserve roster, or 37-man AA roster can be selected at the price of $4,000 to $12,000 per selection. If a player is selected, he does not need to reach the Major Leagues at any point. And if he's drafted from a A+ squad or lower, he must be placed on the AA roster or higher. Last year, the Reds lost Jose Rojas in the minor league draft:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=27269

But the Reds drafted Juan Apodaca and traded him to the Red Sox for cash considerations.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=552

Mario-Rijo
12-01-2008, 09:49 AM
Yeah, the rule five draft has two minor league phases. A player who isn't protected on his team's 40-man roster, 38-man AAA reserve roster, or 37-man AA roster can be selected at the price of $4,000 to $12,000 per selection. If a player is selected, he does not need to reach the Major Leagues at any point. And if he's drafted from a A+ squad or lower, he must be placed on the AA roster or higher. Last year, the Reds lost Jose Rojas in the minor league draft:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=27269

But the Reds drafted Juan Apodaca and traded him to the Red Sox for cash considerations.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=552

Thanks for the info. Is there a way for us to tell who is on the bolded rosters above?

camisadelgolf
12-01-2008, 10:01 AM
Thanks for the info. Is there a way for us to tell who is on the bolded rosters above?

Unfortunately, I don't believe they make them public.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2008, 05:27 PM
James Skelton | Detroit
Position: Catcher
Born: October 1985
2008 Level: High-A/Double-A

One of the more quizzical omissions from the 40-man rosters, James Skelton creates flashes of Jesus Flores, whom the Washington Nationals stole from the New York Mets with the sixth overall pick of the 2006 Rule 5 Draft. Flores is now producing just as well for the Nationals as the Mets' big league catchers, and at a much lower cost. The Tigers organization is seriously lacking in prospects and the 40-man roster had room for Skelton. He was originally selected by the Tigers in the 14th round of the 2004 draft out of a California high school. Skelton has hit more than .300 in each of the past three seasons - a rarity for catchers. This past season, he hit .307/.467/.406 in 212 High-A at-bats and moved up to Double-A and posted a line of .294/.423/.388 in 85 at-bats. There are concerns about Skelton's defence. His is just 5'11'' and 165 lbs - small for a catcher. His arm also lacks strength, but he threw out 43% of base stealers in 2007, and 19 of 54 (35%) at High-A in 2008, followed by nine of 19 (47%) at Double-A. It will be shocking if no one takes a flyer on the left-handed hitting catcher with an excellent eye at the plate and the ability to hit for a high average. The list of clubs that could use catching depth include Toronto, San Diego, Cincinnati, Houston, Chicago (NL), Washington, Florida, Balitmore, Chicago AL, Tampa Bay and Boston.

http://baseballanalysts.com/

HeatherC1212
12-04-2008, 08:34 AM
James Skelton | Detroit
Position: Catcher
Born: October 1985
2008 Level: High-A/Double-A

One of the more quizzical omissions from the 40-man rosters, James Skelton creates flashes of Jesus Flores, whom the Washington Nationals stole from the New York Mets with the sixth overall pick of the 2006 Rule 5 Draft. Flores is now producing just as well for the Nationals as the Mets' big league catchers, and at a much lower cost. The Tigers organization is seriously lacking in prospects and the 40-man roster had room for Skelton. He was originally selected by the Tigers in the 14th round of the 2004 draft out of a California high school. Skelton has hit more than .300 in each of the past three seasons - a rarity for catchers. This past season, he hit .307/.467/.406 in 212 High-A at-bats and moved up to Double-A and posted a line of .294/.423/.388 in 85 at-bats. There are concerns about Skelton's defence. His is just 5'11'' and 165 lbs - small for a catcher. His arm also lacks strength, but he threw out 43% of base stealers in 2007, and 19 of 54 (35%) at High-A in 2008, followed by nine of 19 (47%) at Double-A. It will be shocking if no one takes a flyer on the left-handed hitting catcher with an excellent eye at the plate and the ability to hit for a high average. The list of clubs that could use catching depth include Toronto, San Diego, Cincinnati, Houston, Chicago (NL), Washington, Florida, Balitmore, Chicago AL, Tampa Bay and Boston.

http://baseballanalysts.com/

I like the analysis of that pick and boy would I like the Reds to take a chance on him. I wonder why they left him unprotected with Pudge being at the end (?) of his contract. Can you send this info over to Walt?! ;)