PDA

View Full Version : Hoosier Hoops



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

Razor Shines
11-17-2010, 08:14 PM
This is a pretty funny article.


Many times IU was playing and I was out working, I would video tape the game and then watch into the early morning hours.

Back in the days of Bobby Knight.

I no longer follow the Hoosiers that closely. I try. There have been times when I tuned in to the game. I keep watching and watching, but I never found Damon Bailey or Tommy Coverdale, or, or. You know, all those Indiana greats who Knight recruited and won with.

I have trouble relating with the IU players today. There are Indiana players on the team, but Tom Crean's starting lineup consists of only one Hoosier, Jordan Hulls, a sophomore from Bloomington South.

Check out the lineup. Maurice Creek is from Maryland, Verdell Jones III is from Illinois; Tom Pritchard is from Ohio, and Christian Walford is from Alabama.

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, where are you?

I want Hoosiers playing for the Hoosiers.

The rest gets even better.


http://www.thetimes24-7.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=143&ArticleID=14018&TM=62040.15

Hoosier Red
11-17-2010, 10:58 PM
This is a pretty funny article.



The rest gets even better.


http://www.thetimes24-7.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=143&ArticleID=14018&TM=62040.15

Wow, I'm dumber than I was before reading this article.

How could you leave out the money quote?

If I was Tom Crean (which I can't be, because I can't move that fast), here would be my lineup next season ... Daniel Moore, Austin Etherington and Jeff Howard. Toss in the Elston kid from Tipton and maybe the fifth man would be a player from Ohio, or Illinois, or Alabama

Excuse me, what state is that Cody Zeller kid from?

Razor Shines
11-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Wow, I'm dumber than I was before reading this article.




Hahahaha. I sent him an email saying almost exactly the same thing. Except I said "I now know less about basketball after reading your article."

Hoosier Red
11-18-2010, 01:03 AM
Hahahaha. I sent him an email saying almost exactly the same thing. Except I said "I now know less about basketball after reading your article."

Did you add, "You will be awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

BRM
11-18-2010, 09:40 AM
Did you add, "You will be awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

:laugh:

Chip R
11-18-2010, 04:05 PM
Former Hoosier A.J. Moye has suffered a stroke following a head-on collision with a teammate during practice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=5821161

Hoosier Red
11-18-2010, 06:34 PM
Happier news in an update.

http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/iusp/?p=11027

He looks to have lost no motor skills or language skills and is expected to make a full recovery.

Hoosier Red
11-22-2010, 12:01 PM
Two more recruits committed yesterday.

Colin Hartman, a 6-6 wing from Indianapolis Cathedral, and Devin Davis(no relation I assume to MU's "dreaded" Devin Davis from a few years back) a 6-6 wing from Warren Central. Both are Soph-O-Mores and both are expected to be somewhere in the top 100.

At this point Crean's not recruiting the state so much as he's harvesting it.

BRM
11-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Ferrell is supposed to announce on Wednesday, right? Could be interesting.

Hoosier Red
11-22-2010, 01:43 PM
Ferrell is supposed to announce on Wednesday, right? Could be interesting.

Possibly. He's going to be announcing something on Wednesday, but he's played this game a few times and seems to like the attention. But yes, and if he does announce Wednesday, the scuttlebutt is almost certain it will be to Indiana.

More to the point of this season, the 4-0 start certainly has a number of positives, even if it was over weak teams. With the remaining non-conference games, I'd be surprised if IU isn't 10-3 or 11 and 2 going into B10 play.

Playadlc
11-22-2010, 03:45 PM
Ferrell is all but a lock at this point.

It's going to be fun to be hated again.

Playadlc
11-22-2010, 03:54 PM
The thing that is nice is we are killing Purdue on the recruiting front (they wanted Hartman badly) while they are at their high point and we are at our low.

It's only a matter of time, Purdue.

WMR
11-22-2010, 05:42 PM
Possibly. He's going to be announcing something on Wednesday, but he's played this game a few times and seems to like the attention. But yes, and if he does announce Wednesday, the scuttlebutt is almost certain it will be to Indiana.

More to the point of this season, the 4-0 start certainly has a number of positives, even if it was over weak teams. With the remaining non-conference games, I'd be surprised if IU isn't 10-3 or 11 and 2 going into B10 play.

3!! :lol:

I know where 1 is coming from, but how is IU going to manage to lose 2 more games versus that murderer's row Crean has for his non-conference schedule? :eek:

Razor Shines
11-24-2010, 07:58 PM
So we are very close to the Ferrell announcement. IUsports.com has reported that Yogi was spotted wearing a crimson shirt this evening, could be just trying to throw us off though.

You guys think that all the outrage he and his family had towards the Star for the report that said he's for sure going to IU means he really is going there? All the things his Mom said about them "stealing his the most important day of his life". I mean if he were going somewhere else the report would just be wrong and they wouldn't be too upset, right?

Razor Shines
11-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Tom Crean has been spotted at Park Tudor.

Razor Shines
11-24-2010, 08:18 PM
Ferrell: "I want to verbally commit to play my college basketball for coach Tom Crean and Indiana."

Razor Shines
11-24-2010, 08:20 PM
Wow, I'm dumber than I was before reading this article.

How could you leave out the money quote?

If I was Tom Crean (which I can't be, because I can't move that fast), here would be my lineup next season ... Daniel Moore, Austin Etherington and Jeff Howard. Toss in the Elston kid from Tipton and maybe the fifth man would be a player from Ohio, or Illinois, or Alabama

Excuse me, what state is that Cody Zeller kid from?

That article is even more funny now after the last few days. Man, that Tom Crean...really wish he could recruit Indiana.

Revering4Blue
11-27-2010, 05:41 PM
IU's win over Evansville, which I witnessed in person, looks better now..

Evansville just knocked off #23 Butler in OT at Hinkle.

Razor Shines
11-28-2010, 04:48 PM
IU's win over Evansville, which I witnessed in person, looks better now..

Evansville just knocked off #23 Butler in OT at Hinkle.

That was a nice win for Evansville, but Butler is not a top 25 team this year. They just don't have many scorers this year.

Playadlc
11-28-2010, 06:24 PM
Lynch fired.

Gus Malzahn...one time.

redsfanmia
11-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Lynch fired.

Gus Malzahn...one time.

I wish they would have stuck with Lynch for one more year, I think he was really close to getting things turned around.

Hoosier Red
11-28-2010, 11:04 PM
He did a lot, but IU couldn't just leave him on the last year of a contract, and as Fred Glass said, "3 Big Ten wins in 3 years should not be the basis for a contract extension."

The nice thing is the IU job is a lot more palatable for a coach than it was when Terry Hoeppner took over.

Here's what I want, 1) A guy with head coach experience, and some success at a smaller school, 2) A guy who has at least coached in the Big 10.

The obvious choice would be Brady Hoke, though apparantly Minnesota is also interested in him. Other choices would be Jerry Kill,(Northern Illinois) and maybe Michael Haywood(Miami OH) as a longshot.

redsfanmia
11-29-2010, 12:39 AM
He did a lot, but IU couldn't just leave him on the last year of a contract, and as Fred Glass said, "3 Big Ten wins in 3 years should not be the basis for a contract extension."

The nice thing is the IU job is a lot more palatable for a coach than it was when Terry Hoeppner took over.

Here's what I want, 1) A guy with head coach experience, and some success at a smaller school, 2) A guy who has at least coached in the Big 10.

The obvious choice would be Brady Hoke, though apparantly Minnesota is also interested in him. Other choices would be Jerry Kill,(Northern Illinois) and maybe Michael Haywood(Miami OH) as a longshot.

They need to go with someone young who has had success and see's this job as a stepping stone not a destination.

Hoosier Red
11-29-2010, 01:31 AM
They need to go with someone young who has had success and see's this job as a stepping stone not a destination.

I agree with you. It would be nice if IU could get a coach for the next 10 years, but I'd rather have a good coach for the next 4 than a mediocre one for the next 10.

Playadlc
11-29-2010, 02:04 AM
I am pretty excited about what Glass said in the PC.

On how he sells the position to potential candidates:

"I think it is a fantastic job. Certainly, properly understood, it will be highly sought after. "

"First, Indiana University is clearly committed to the football program. The facilities that were started under Rick Greenspan and Terry Hoeppner's legacy speak for themselves. We have a $60 million facility, the largest strength center in the country, an academic center physically connected to that is 28,000 square feet, two outdoor practice facilities, an indoor practice field - a complex that is the envy of not only a lot of college programs but professional teams as well."

"We are prepared to pay the coaches a competitive amount. I don't think salary will be a challenge for getting the people we want to get."

BRM
12-01-2010, 10:39 AM
Guy-Marc Michel ruled ineligible by the NCAA.


The NCAA Division I Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee has denied Indiana University’s appeal on behalf of Guy-Marc Michel. As a result, he is not eligible to participate on the men’s basketball team.

Zach Osterman has a nice rant about the NCAA on ITH, concerning their handling of foreign players.

http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/11/30/ncaa-needs-to-get-better-at-this-and-fast/

Razor Shines
12-01-2010, 01:24 PM
Guy-Marc Michel ruled ineligible by the NCAA.



Zach Osterman has a nice rant about the NCAA on ITH, concerning their handling of foreign players.

http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/11/30/ncaa-needs-to-get-better-at-this-and-fast/

Not that surprising after the Kanter verdict.

Big game tonight against BC. We'll see how much this team as improved over last year. Going into Mass., I don't think they'll win but I'd like to see them make it a game. We're going to find out if Crean's plan of scheduling a bunch of cupcakes at home has worked and the team has built some belief in themselves.

It's really going to depend on whether or not we have anyone that can guard Reggie Jackson.

Razor Shines
12-01-2010, 09:36 PM
Sloppy so far. Creek takes a lot of bad shots. He needs to realize he's not the only guy any more.

Razor Shines
12-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Freshman or not, IU is a better team with Olidepo on the court.

BRM
12-02-2010, 10:55 AM
Freshman or not, IU is a better team with Olidepo on the court.

Absolutely. I love watching him play. Great athleticism.

Razor Shines
12-02-2010, 06:36 PM
Good 2nd half from the Hoosiers. The game was closer than the end score indicated. As expected Jackson killed 'em.

I was kinda sad afterward. I know they were long shots to make it but last night their NCAA tourney hopes officially died. Oh well, help is on the way and I do enjoy watching these guys grow.

WMR
12-02-2010, 06:49 PM
Our game got moved to ESPN.

Maybe it's time we revisit that old avatar bet we used to make?? I got the BCG v. Sampson matchup... turnabout being fair play and all that. :D

Razor Shines
12-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Our game got moved to ESPN.

Maybe it's time we revisit that old avatar bet we used to make?? I got the BCG v. Sampson matchup... turnabout being fair play and all that. :D

That was a little different than this. You gotta give me some sort of spread.

WMR
12-02-2010, 06:54 PM
That was a little different than this. You gotta give me some sort of spread.

C'mon!! What would Coach K do? Would he need a spread? Hell nah! :D

It was pretty close... those Sampson teams were pretty badass.

Razor Shines
12-02-2010, 06:56 PM
C'mon!! What would Coach K do? Would he need a spread? Hell nah! :D

You C'mon. It doesn't have to be the official Vegas spread just something that would mean IU played really, really well. Otherwise I might as well change my avatar now.

WMR
12-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Peter's Jurkin!!!!

WMR
12-02-2010, 06:58 PM
You C'mon. It doesn't have to be the official Vegas spread just something that would mean IU played really, really well. Otherwise I might as well change my avatar now.

I wonder what the actual spread will be?

Razor Shines
12-02-2010, 07:01 PM
I don't know, pretty big though. 20 - 25 range?

WMR
12-02-2010, 07:03 PM
We need to look up the spread from those BCG vs. KS matchups.

redsfanmia
12-02-2010, 07:17 PM
We need to look up the spread from those BCG vs. KS matchups.

Why? Indiana fans deny the Denim Shirt years.

Hoosier Red
12-03-2010, 12:12 PM
Good 2nd half from the Hoosiers. The game was closer than the end score indicated. As expected Jackson killed 'em.

I was kinda sad afterward. I know they were long shots to make it but last night their NCAA tourney hopes officially died. Oh well, help is on the way and I do enjoy watching these guys grow.

A lot of season left. I'm not expecting them to make it, but essentially they'll have to win one more than otherwise necessary in the Big 10.

Or ya know beat Kentucky.

Like I said, not expecting it to happen.

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 12:40 AM
Wow, line is only 13.5.

Alright wily mo, get that avatar picked out. We'll just do winner.

WMR
12-11-2010, 12:43 AM
:D Just praying I'm not wearing my crean and crimson 3:30 tomorrow...

I know Hoosier Red wants in on this too, right?

WMR
12-11-2010, 12:45 AM
And BRM, can't forget about him...

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 12:46 AM
:D Just praying I'm not wearing my crean and crimson 3:30 tomorrow...

I know Hoosier Red wants in on this too, right?

Oh its worse than that. Since they are such longshots against the mighty Kentucky, IF IU wins you have to use a coach K avatar for the rest of the college basketball season, and I get to pick the status above it.

WMR
12-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Oh its worse than that. Since they are such longshots against the mighty Kentucky, IF IU wins you have to use a coach K avatar for the rest of the college basketball season, and I get to pick the status above it.

:lol: I'll go two for 1. Two weeks for me if UK loses, only 1 for you if UK wins...

Avatar and Status above Avatar.

WMR
12-11-2010, 12:56 AM
I do sorta think it should be IU related if UK loses...

WMR
12-11-2010, 01:58 AM
Hoosier Red don't be scared, buddy!!! :D

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 03:16 PM
I guess I'll go with the 2 for 1, WMR. Still think I'm getting hosed.

This guy is ready:

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr210/razorshines11/jonahIU2.jpg

WMR
12-11-2010, 03:27 PM
Awww who is that?

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 03:54 PM
My son. I'm going to have to work to make him an IU fan growing up in the heart of UT country. He can root for UT football but when it comes to basketball he better know that burnt orange takes a back seat to cream and crimson.

WMR
12-11-2010, 04:02 PM
Damn didn't know you have one that big. How old is he? Cute kid.

Just don't try to make him root for DOOK as well. I know some child services people in Texas! :D

Ask him if he wants Uncle Wily Mo to send him a Brandon Knight jersey for Christmas.

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 04:09 PM
Well you could but I think we're all set on wipes. :D

He's 2.

Playadlc
12-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Not having Jones in the 2nd half has killed us tonight.

8 minutes scoring drought. Ouch.

Playadlc
12-11-2010, 08:30 PM
Also, IU has committed 30 personal fouls tonight.

That's a staggering number.

Razor Shines
12-11-2010, 08:32 PM
Creek takes way too many bad shots. They're better with him on the bench.

I was impressed with IUs defense for most of the game too, but then with so many guys in foul trouble they started to get timid and then Crean was forced to go to that zone and it didn't work at all.

The refs didn't cost em the game, clearly but UK was allowed to be alot more physical than IU, especially the last 8 minutes.

WMR
12-11-2010, 09:34 PM
Good game, Hoosiers. Your boys brought it today... just need a couple more players and IU will be back.

gilpdawg
12-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Yes, I was very pleased with how they battled given the obvious talent disparity. They can carry this game over to conference and say "hey, we can hang with these teams." Believing in yourself is half the battle.

Razor Shines
12-13-2010, 06:47 PM
Weird. I thought I had posted in either this one or the other one, but apparantly not. Didn't want WMR to think I was ducking him though. :)
IU's about 75-80% of the way there, which showed tonight because they hung with UK for about 75-80% of the game.

I said before that absent a win, this game wouldn't tell us anything about the Hoosiers. Coming close really doesn't make a big difference, and if IU loses to any of the remaining out of conference teams, any good feelings will be nullified.
Last year IU sandwiched its two "best losses"(At Illinois 72-70, Vs. Purdue 78-75) with two of its ugliest losses (at home to Iowa by 15 and at Northwestern by 17.)

Still if we take anything positive out of it, Christian Watford played great against legitimate big men. If he can legitimately play the four, the team is 10x better than last year.

I had decided that it would only be fair to give Creek through the pre-conference schedule to 1) Trust his knee and 2) Incorporate himself into the flow of the offense better. He and VJIII both take bad shots at times, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that the offense at various points in their careers has been "4 guys stand around and watch VJIII or Maurice do something."

For IU fans of any length, this is what we call the "Bracey offense."

I think that Hulls needs to have the ball more to offset that "Bracey offense". I really don't think it's like that too often and I don't think that Jones is as bad as Creek. I think he shouldn't play in close games until he gets back to 100%, I really think he does more bad than good at this point.

Hoosier Red
12-20-2010, 03:42 PM
Just posted my thoughts on the team to this point.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=524

Better than SC State, not as good as Kentucky.

BRM
12-20-2010, 03:51 PM
Just posted my thoughts on the team to this point.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=524 (http://crimsoncast.com/?p=524)

Better than SC State, not as good as Kentucky.

Pretty wide margin there. ;)

I'll check it out tonight, the site is blocked here.

Razor Shines
12-20-2010, 08:54 PM
Just posted my thoughts on the team to this point.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=524

Better than SC State, not as good as Kentucky.

Nice article. Agree with pretty much all of it. I did think that building confidence and aiming at the NIT were important this non conference year.

I think they'll beat No. Iowa pretty easily and then I think most likely they'll play New Mexico. And I think that IU v. New Mexico will be a good game.

Razor Shines
12-22-2010, 10:42 PM
That's a tough loss. Really thought they were better than UNI, pretty disappointed for the first time this season.

Hoosier Red
12-23-2010, 09:51 AM
That's a tough loss. Really thought they were better than UNI, pretty disappointed for the first time this season.

Defense just gave up WAY too many open looks in the 1st half. You can't give up 43 points in a half to a team like UNI. Everything else looked okay to me and defense was much better in 2nd half.

Chip R
12-23-2010, 11:12 AM
I think they'll beat No. Iowa pretty easily and then I think most likely they'll play New Mexico. And I think that IU v. New Mexico will be a good game.

It's OK. I'm sure Kansas fans thought the same thing.

BRM
12-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Defense just gave up WAY too many open looks in the 1st half. You can't give up 43 points in a half to a team like UNI. Everything else looked okay to me and defense was much better in 2nd half.

They struggled to defend the pick and roll the entire game. Was better in the second half but still disappointing.

Razor Shines
12-23-2010, 04:33 PM
Again, I think they are better with Creek on the bench. He takes too many bad shots. Hulls needs to take more shots as well. You can't have your best shooter only taking two shots.

Hoosier Red
12-23-2010, 09:15 PM
Hard to disagree that Hulls needs more shots. I was reading the Hoosier Scoop chat today and they mentioned that he's not particularly aggressive and because he's only 6 foot tall, he pretty much refuses to take a contested jump shot.
But I think they have to work more offense geared towards getting him some open looks.

BRM
12-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Again, I think they are better with Creek on the bench. He takes too many bad shots. Hulls needs to take more shots as well. You can't have your best shooter only taking two shots.

Watford took way too many bad shots last night as well. He forced the action too much, didn't let the game come to him. Hulls started out pretty aggressive and looking to score but got passive again as the game went on.

Razor Shines
12-24-2010, 12:10 PM
Watford took way too many bad shots last night as well. He forced the action too much, didn't let the game come to him. Hulls started out pretty aggressive and looking to score but got passive again as the game went on.

I didn't get to see the game last night, but that seems like it would be the first time watford played poorly.

I guess its encouraging that hulls started off more aggressive, probably mean that someone is telling him he needs to make an effort to look for his shot.

BRM
12-24-2010, 07:28 PM
I didn't get to see the game last night, but that seems like it would be the first time watford played poorly.

I guess its encouraging that hulls started off more aggressive, probably mean that someone is telling him he needs to make an effort to look for his shot.

It was the first time I've seen Watford play poorly. And it was only at the offensive end. He was really forcing it last night. You could tell he was frustrated.

BRM
12-27-2010, 11:32 AM
Was just reading through some updates on ITH and saw the recap from Vegas. Wow. Seems that 0-2 result really stung a lot of folks. Losing all four road games on their non-conference schedule has disheartened fans/writers to the point of predicting a bad, bad Big Ten season for the Hoosiers. Will a win tonight help? My guess is no since it's a home game against a weak team. Next week's road games at Minnesota and Northwestern are where Crean needs wins because a lot of folks are starting to lose hope.

WMR
12-27-2010, 03:00 PM
Was just reading through some updates on ITH and saw the recap from Vegas. Wow. Seems that 0-2 result really stung a lot of folks. Losing all four road games on their non-conference schedule has disheartened fans/writers to the point of predicting a bad, bad Big Ten season for the Hoosiers. Will a win tonight help? My guess is no since it's a home game against a weak team. Next week's road games at Minnesota and Northwestern are where Crean needs wins because a lot of folks are starting to lose hope.

Any chance they can get Zeller enrolled for the 2nd semester? ;)

Are they playing well and just getting beat or playing poorly? That's what you've got to judge this squad on, not on their W-L record.

Razor Shines
12-27-2010, 03:02 PM
Any chance they can get Zeller enrolled for the 2nd semester? ;)

Are they playing well and just getting beat or playing poorly? That's what you've got to judge this squad on, not on their W-L record.

Both. Boston College and Kentucky were just better, but I think they played pretty well. No. Iowa and Colorado I don't think were better. I saw the No. Iowa game and it looked like IU played poorly, I didn't see the Colorado game.

BRM
12-27-2010, 03:03 PM
Any chance they can get Zeller enrolled for the 2nd semester? ;)

Are they playing well and just getting beat or playing poorly? That's what you've got to judge this squad on, not on their W-L record.

They played poorly in the Vegas tournament. They lost to two teams (UNI and Colorado) they could have and should have beaten. It was a frustrating couple of days. I agree on your main point though. Unfortunately, a lot of folks don't and they want to see wins...now.

WMR
12-27-2010, 03:05 PM
It really sucks Kelvin Sampson is riding around in first class making probably a half-million dollars a year without a care in the world while you guys are left to pick up the pieces and deal with these crappy seasons....

Hoosier Red
12-27-2010, 06:30 PM
mEH. It happens. Sampson's a hell of a coach. He gets guys who otherwise wouldn't care to bust their tails on defense and he can grind you to death. He'll never get another job in college basketball, so if he can carve out a career as a NBA assistant, good for him.

Even among the impatient Indiana fans, I think Crean's gotten himself some breathing room with the spectacular recruiting classes coming, but the rope will be significantly shorter going into next year just because there wasn't much wiggle room on the schedule this year, and they've wiggled too much already.
Hard to see any path to 7 Big 10 wins(16 wins means an NIT berth) without a win over Penn State at home tonight.

Razor Shines
12-27-2010, 07:57 PM
Was just reading through some updates on ITH and saw the recap from Vegas. Wow. Seems that 0-2 result really stung a lot of folks. Losing all four road games on their non-conference schedule has disheartened fans/writers to the point of predicting a bad, bad Big Ten season for the Hoosiers. Will a win tonight help? My guess is no since it's a home game against a weak team. Next week's road games at Minnesota and Northwestern are where Crean needs wins because a lot of folks are starting to lose hope.

Well looks like IU came out to make a statement in this one. And that is: "Look! We can play just as bad at home as we have on the road!"

BRM
12-28-2010, 10:11 AM
mEH. It happens. Sampson's a hell of a coach. He gets guys who otherwise wouldn't care to bust their tails on defense and he can grind you to death. He'll never get another job in college basketball, so if he can carve out a career as a NBA assistant, good for him.

Even among the impatient Indiana fans, I think Crean's gotten himself some breathing room with the spectacular recruiting classes coming, but the rope will be significantly shorter going into next year just because there wasn't much wiggle room on the schedule this year, and they've wiggled too much already.
Hard to see any path to 7 Big 10 wins(16 wins means an NIT berth) without a win over Penn State at home tonight.

Oh, I think he gets next year at the very least. However, I think the expectation will be raised to NCAA berth and folks won't be happy with a 16-17 win team and an NIT bid.

As for last night...just wow. This is a bad defensive team right now. They get out of synch offensively a lot as well. Just overall a bad squad. Hopefully Crean can get them kicked into gear soon or this will be a very ugly season.

BRM
12-28-2010, 11:04 AM
From ITH


This team is really lacking that go-to guy, or at least some steady leadership in the waning minutes of these ballgames where victory is within reach.

That duty should fall to Christian Watford. But he was an absolute ghost this evening, as he scored only three points (1-of-5 from the field, 0-of-2 from three, 1-of-2 from the line). Not sure if he picked up Derek Elston’s illness or not (UPDATE: looks like he had back spasms all night), but this is back-to-back substandard performances for Indiana’s leading scorer. There appeared to be more of a concerted effort to get him the ball down low in the second half, but he had trouble establishing much.

This was one the Hoosiers absolutely had to win. And they didn’t. Now the prospects of an 0-4 start to Big Ten play and a six-game losing streak loom large.

Hoosier Red
12-28-2010, 11:30 AM
This team sucks.
http://bit.ly/gqXF82

I'm about as frustrated and disconsolate as I've ever been in the Tom Crean era.

BRM
12-28-2010, 11:42 AM
I'm about as frustrated and disconsolate as I've ever been in the Tom Crean era.

I hear you. This team is tough to watch right now. Friday's game against Ohio State could be real ugly.

Playadlc
12-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Horrible loss last night. I was hoping we could make the NIT this year, but those hopes are essentially gone after last nights pathetic performance.

Can someone please tell me why Hulls doesn't shoot the damn ball anymore than what he does? My God, it is so freakin' frustrating to watch one of the best shooters in the nation shoot the ball about 5 times a game.

The OSU game is going to be a massacre. OSU is scary good. Too bad nobody in the state of Ohio cares.

BRM
12-28-2010, 12:28 PM
Can someone please tell me why Hulls doesn't shoot the damn ball anymore than what he does? My God, it is so freakin' frustrating to watch one of the best shooters in the nation shoot the ball about 5 times a game.


Part of it is team's are keying on him so he's not getting many open looks. That said, he does need to be more aggressive looking for his shot. He passes up too many of the looks he does get. Hulls needs to shoot more, Creek needs to shoot less.

Speaking of Creek, it appears Oladipo is starting to get a lot of his minutes now. Which is good. He's been playing well the last few games.

Hoosier Red
12-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Part of it is team's are keying on him so he's not getting many open looks. That said, he does need to be more aggressive looking for his shot. He passes up too many of the looks he does get. Hulls needs to shoot more, Creek needs to shoot less.

Speaking of Creek, it appears Oladipo is starting to get a lot of his minutes now. Which is good. He's been playing well the last few games.

Part of the problem is that Hulls doesn't really create his own shot. Part of the high percentage is because he has been wide open and stepping into the few shots he does take. So there has to be some balance there. As he takes more shots, he'll make a lower percentage but that's okay. It still means more points.

I actually disagree that Creek needs to shoot less. He's not making them now but the only chance this team has at being an NIT level team is if he's an actual offensive weapon. From the games I've watched, it doesn't appear as though he's forcing shots or taking shots he shouldn't, but they just haven't gone in.

I agree about Oladipo getting a higher share of minutes, one of my compatriots mentioned that the substitution patterns simply can not have Watford and Oladipo out of the game at the same time, IU is just too unathletic without one or both of them in there. If Sheehey improves, I may change that to say 2 of the three should always be in there.

I'd also like to say I'm in favor of Rivers becoming to primary point guard and always being in the game when Hulls and Elston are in. Those two are just too much of a liability on defense by themselves, Rivers can help a little bit.

I think this would be my starting lineup for the near term;
Rivers - Hulls -Jones - Watford - Elston with Oladipo, Creek, Sheehey, and Tom Pritchard's five fouls coming off the bench.

BRM
12-28-2010, 01:12 PM
I don't know that I agree completely on Creek. I see the point that he needs to keep shooting if he's ever going to find his rhythm again but I think he does indeed take a lot of bad shots. Or at least he did until recently. I didn't see him forcing bad shots at all last night and thought he played better than he had previously. I hope he continues to build on that because the Hoosiers desperately need him to step up offensively.

Agreed on Oladipo/Watford. One of those two needs to be on the floor all the time. Love Oladipo's energy.

Razor Shines
12-28-2010, 06:01 PM
I think Creek takes too many outside shots. He took some decent shots last night when he drove to his left and pulled up at the elbow or the free throw line. That's where his game should be, get all the way to the basket but if he can't pull up for the 15 footer.

BRM
12-30-2010, 11:38 AM
Coach K moved up to #2 last night. Now he's chasing Coach Knight. I thought his comment below was pretty cool.


He passed Smith as his top-ranked Blue Devils dispatched UNC-Greensboro 108-62. Duke is the reigning national champion, and, for good measure, Krzyzewski-coached teams are also the reigning FIBA World Champions and Olympic gold-medal winners. And his personal climb continues. Up next is former mentor and coach Bobby Knight, who retired with 902 victories.

"Coach (Knight) should still be at Indiana," Krzyzewski said after making some jokes about Knight before half-making one more. "And if he was there, he'd have probably 1,100 wins."

Buckeye33
12-30-2010, 04:59 PM
Wanted to say good luck to all the Hoosier fans tomorrow. The Bucks are playing incredibly good basketball right now, but I think Indiana will keep it close into the 2nd half when the talent level of the Bucks will take over.

Hoosier Red
12-30-2010, 05:07 PM
Wanted to say good luck to all the Hoosier fans tomorrow. The Bucks are playing incredibly good basketball right now, but I think Indiana will keep it close into the 2nd half when the talent level of the Bucks will take over.

Actually, my main concern is that the team has started slowly in so many games, it could be over before it begins. Thanks for the good wishes, I'm hoping to keep it within 20.

BRM
01-03-2011, 03:03 PM
Tom Crean on whether Maurice Creek's struggles this season were more mental or physical, courtesy of ITH.


I think the mental plays into it because the physical is not there. And when you can’t do what you’re used to doing, that’s certainly going to become part of the mental process for you.

He’s working very hard through it. We need him to continue to get better defensively and find things that he can do to help us that much more. He’s certainly not shooting it at a high level right now like most guys that score points. A lot of times their mindset is predicated on if the ball is going in the basket or not. And he’s gotta understand that it’s not always going to go in the basket for him right now because he can’t do all of the things he did a year ago or a little over a year ago before he got hurt.

I’m not displeased with him at all, I know he gets frustrated and upset. The bottom line is none of us have been through an injury like this in this program right now outside of Tim Garl and our doctors to see how long it takes for somebody to get through that and certainly Maurice has never been through it. It’s just a process right now where he’s just got to continue to trust what he’s doing, continue to get better and let’s see what happens. We knew it was going to be hard, but then you have to live through it. And that’s exactly what we’re trying to do.

BRM
01-04-2011, 02:10 PM
Looks like the line tonight is Minnesota by 9. Anyone think IU will keep it under that?

Hoosier Red
01-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Looks like the line tonight is Minnesota by 9. Anyone think IU will keep it under that?

Playing in the barn? I never liked Indiana's chances to keep it under 9 in that abomination when Indiana was ranked 13th and Minnesota was 201st.

Razor Shines
01-04-2011, 08:53 PM
Strong finish to the half. Sheehey looks real good. This would be a huge win if they can hold on.

Razor Shines
01-04-2011, 09:17 PM
Hulls frustrates me so much.

He gets around his man and has an open pull up at the free throw line, but instead he stop and kicks back out. Crean yells at him to shoot and after a couple passes gets the ball back and takes a guarded 18 foot fade away.

He's got to learn that if he has any day light he needs to shoot. He hurts the team by passing up open jumpers and they've already got to hide him on defense.

I guess I need to remember he's just a soph. and maybe he'll learn and make himself into a Coverdale type of player, but right now he's frustrating.

Razor Shines
01-04-2011, 10:05 PM
I hate watching Jones play. I'll be happy when he's not playing for IU anymore. He's a horrible defender and except for when he feels like playing. He's athletic enough to guard people but he's lazy. He takes bad shots. Twice he thought he got fouled and instead of getting back on defense he complained to the refs. One time Minn. missed an easy shot and the other time they got a layup. For me if you do it once you're going to sit for a couple minutes, twice you probably won't play the rest of the game.

How the hell does Sheehey not even see the court in the second half after the way he played in the first half? He hustled and rebounded. That makes no sense. I hope the reason is that there was some sort of injury.

I am happy with the classes Crean has coming in and I know his team is young but more and more I am becoming frustrated with this team's discipline. They should have beat Minn. tonight but there were too many times when IU just made stupid mistakes. Like Mbakwe not being blocked out at all several times.

That was a very disappointing game to watch.

Hoosier Red
01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
I hate watching Jones play. I'll be happy when he's not playing for IU anymore. He's a horrible defender and except for when he feels like playing. He's athletic enough to guard people but he's lazy. He takes bad shots. Twice he thought he got fouled and instead of getting back on defense he complained to the refs. One time Minn. missed an easy shot and the other time they got a layup. For me if you do it once you're going to sit for a couple minutes, twice you probably won't play the rest of the game.


That was a very disappointing game to watch.

I understand the frustration with Jones. I have it too, but the real problem, at least in the Big 10 games, has been the disappearance of any competent front court players. Check out my chart at the bottom of the post.

http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/searching-for-derek-elston/

BRM
01-06-2011, 11:27 AM
I hate watching Jones play. I'll be happy when he's not playing for IU anymore. He's a horrible defender and except for when he feels like playing. He's athletic enough to guard people but he's lazy. He takes bad shots. Twice he thought he got fouled and instead of getting back on defense he complained to the refs. One time Minn. missed an easy shot and the other time they got a layup. For me if you do it once you're going to sit for a couple minutes, twice you probably won't play the rest of the game.

How the hell does Sheehey not even see the court in the second half after the way he played in the first half? He hustled and rebounded. That makes no sense. I hope the reason is that there was some sort of injury.

I am happy with the classes Crean has coming in and I know his team is young but more and more I am becoming frustrated with this team's discipline. They should have beat Minn. tonight but there were too many times when IU just made stupid mistakes. Like Mbakwe not being blocked out at all several times.

That was a very disappointing game to watch.

Agree with it all. Not sure what the deal is with Sheehey, anyone hear if maybe he was injured?

BRM
01-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Inside The Hall's latest post is an article defending Jones and his minutes. In case any of you would like to check it out.

Hoosier Red
01-06-2011, 12:38 PM
Yeah I saw that BRM.
To be fair, Verdell played pretty well in retrospect. He took two ill-advised shots that stood out, one in the Minnesota run that put the Gophers up 8, and one in the final minutes. But it's really hard to complain when a guy goes 6 for 11 on primarily jump shots.

He had 4 turnovers which of course led the team, but he's the only player who's a credible threat to both drive and shoot. Hulls simply isn't aggressive enough, and he doesn't really drive very well anyway. Rivers does well at facillitating the offense but has so little range that it's somewhat worthless because opponents can slack off of him.

I wrote my post talking about Elston's disappearance, but really the larger question, what on earth has happened to Christian Watford? Has he pretty much given up any hope of being a legitimate post player?

BRM
01-06-2011, 12:40 PM
Yeah, Watford seems to be going backwards so to speak. His play around the rim has been disappointing lately.

Hoosier Red
01-06-2011, 01:08 PM
A point I didn't flesh out very well in my post, but I'll probably have an opportunity to still, is my biggest concern is the lack of free throws. Not only are Watford and Elston good free throw shooters, but of course getting to the line has a lot of additional advantages. For the starting lineup (Hulls, Jones, Rivers, Watford, Elston) to get to the line as many times as I did is simply pathetic.

It shows that teams don't even have to foul in order to stay in front of IU on drives to the basket, and IU isn't creating enough from off ball screens to get the opponent out of position.

BRM
01-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Is it even worth commenting anymore? Very disappointing season so far.

Razor Shines
01-13-2011, 12:05 PM
I was looking at IU's big ten schedule and I honestly don't see more than 1 maybe 2 wins (and those are just if they play well, they could go 0 for the B10 and I wouldn't be shocked). It'd be pretty bad to take a step back from last year. They could start playing really well and win 4 but that would still be a disappointment with the hopes we had going into this year. I really thought they'd get to the NIT.

Hoosier Red
01-13-2011, 12:13 PM
My friend Scott wrote that exact sentiment Razor.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/the-possbility-of-0-18-in-the-big-ten/

I'm going to guess we win 5 games. As disappointed as I've been, the team won't continue to play so poorly forever.

So if they go 5-9 the rest of the way, that leaves the record at 14-17. Maybe they win one in the Big Ten Tournament and finish 15-18. Still a big disappointment, but perhaps better days are ahead.

BRM
01-14-2011, 01:17 PM
The Crimson Quarry put out a state of the program article a couple of days ago. Nice read.

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2011/1/11/1918516/tom-crean-and-the-state-of-indianas-basketball-program

Hoosier Red
01-16-2011, 01:16 AM
Stellar game from the whipping boys tonight.
VJIII got to his mid range jumper early and often.
Watdford with a double double.
Hulls was aggressive looking for his shot when necessary.

BRM
01-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Nice win for the Hoosiers. Hulls caught fire at the end, didn't he? Best game I've seen from Watford in awhile.

Razor Shines
01-16-2011, 02:43 PM
I completely forgot to watch the game. I got caught up watching football.

Hoosier Red
01-16-2011, 03:04 PM
Nice win for the Hoosiers. Hulls caught fire at the end, didn't he? Best game I've seen from Watford in awhile.

The best shot was his step back three where he squared up in the corner, stepped back and sort of faded away with a three.
It was sweet because it put the game back at 14 obviously, but more importantly, it was a contested shot which he almost never takes a contested shot.

gilpdawg
01-18-2011, 03:18 AM
Creek's probably done for the year. Maybe a blessing in disguise if he can come back with the left knee healthier next year, because this injury isn't as serious as the last one, and it's the other knee.

BRM
01-18-2011, 10:35 AM
I feel really bad for Creek. He worked very hard trying to come back from last year's knee injury. This has to be a heartbreaker for him.

Razor Shines
01-18-2011, 12:04 PM
That sucks for Creek. He may have gotten back to where he was last year at some point this year.

I don't see it really affecting IU's won/loss record this year though.

Razor Shines
01-21-2011, 01:01 AM
It was really nice to see Hulls more aggressive on offense. He's actually got some moves going to the basket. You can tell though he's still not comfortable doing it, but I think he's going to be by the end of this year or sooner.

The refs were awful in the second half. Some of those And 1's were NBA continuation calls and two against Pritchart were just horrible calls period. Wisc. has a reputation for being a touch defensive team so they get to play physical on defense, "because they're hard nosed", but IU couldn't touch Wisc.

The defense looked much better against the outside shot. I was really happy to see that.

BRM
01-21-2011, 10:14 AM
It was really nice to see Hulls more aggressive on offense. He's actually got some moves going to the basket. You can tell though he's still not comfortable doing it, but I think he's going to be by the end of this year or sooner.

The refs were awful in the second half. Some of those And 1's were NBA continuation calls and two against Pritchart were just horrible calls period. Wisc. has a reputation for being a touch defensive team so they get to play physical on defense, "because they're hard nosed", but IU couldn't touch Wisc.

The defense looked much better against the outside shot. I was really happy to see that.

Hulls was a lot of fun to watch last night. I love seeing him so aggressive offensively. He disappeared for awhile after the hot start but got it going again in the 2nd half.

Agree on the And 1's. A couple of those were a joke. I didn't know whether to laugh or start swearing at the TV.

Boston Red
01-23-2011, 11:22 PM
Not sure what to think about IU. Seemed like maybe they were showing some signs of improvement, but going out to Iowa City and getting spanked by a godawful Iowa squad is a bad sign. I assume Crean could probably lose every game this year and still be okay, but I'm guessing IU fans must be starting to get a bit restless.

919191
01-24-2011, 09:52 AM
A little off topic. Armon Bassett got busted for pot recently in Terre Haute. I love this quote.


Sweatt’s report stated that Bassett repeatedly said he was “a basketball star and couldn’t get involved in something like this.”

http://tribstar.com/local/x233966566/Bassett-one-of-three-arrested-after-traffic-stop

BRM
01-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Not sure what to think about IU. Seemed like maybe they were showing some signs of improvement, but going out to Iowa City and getting spanked by a godawful Iowa squad is a bad sign. I assume Crean could probably lose every game this year and still be okay, but I'm guessing IU fans must be starting to get a bit restless.

Words cannot describe how disappointing that Iowa game was for me. I know they had to play without Jones but c'mon. It still should have been at least a competitive game. Getting crushed by the Hawkeyes? Just sad.

BRM
01-24-2011, 10:18 AM
Sweatt’s report stated that Bassett repeatedly said he was “a basketball star and couldn’t get involved in something like this.”

He's a star? :laugh:

Razor Shines
01-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Words cannot describe how disappointing that Iowa game was for me. I know they had to play without Jones but c'mon. It still should have been at least a competitive game. Getting crushed by the Hawkeyes? Just sad.

Yeah that sucked big time. I honestly thought after the way they played at Wisc they would go into Carver Hawkeye and beat them soundly.

I'm still content to wait to see what Crean can do with some real talent.

BRM
01-24-2011, 01:04 PM
I'm still content to wait to see what Crean can do with some real talent.

You might be but I get the impression a lot of IU fans are not. They better be competitive next season or his seat will get awfully warm IMO. And next year will basically just be this year's squad again plus Zeller. Not sure if he's enough to offset the inconsistency and lack of discipline this team has shown. I really hope it turns next year because I like Crean a lot but I'm not sure I'd bet on it at this point.

Razor Shines
01-24-2011, 01:32 PM
You might be but I get the impression a lot of IU fans are not. They better be competitive next season or his seat will get awfully warm IMO. And next year will basically just be this year's squad again plus Zeller. Not sure if he's enough to offset the inconsistency and lack of discipline this team has shown. I really hope it turns next year because I like Crean a lot but I'm not sure I'd bet on it at this point.

Etherington is also coming next year. He should help a little, but I agree they won't be dramatically better.

But I think that Hulls and Watford will Jrs and Olidepo and Sheehey will Sophs will also make some difference.

Hoosier Red
01-24-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm not sure that this is Crean's fault perse, but I'm less confident than I was that he'll be successful in pulling IU out of the abyss.

I explore the possibility that the Hoosiers have been Klinglerized in my last blog column;
http://bit.ly/f9hXPb

BRM
01-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Etherington is also coming next year. He should help a little, but I agree they won't be dramatically better.

But I think that Hulls and Watford will Jrs and Olidepo and Sheehey will Sophs will also make some difference.

The talent level will get a slight uptick next year. Nothing dramatic but a little improvement. Crean has his work cut out for him.

WMR
01-24-2011, 04:25 PM
Zeller is the one I wonder about... the pressure on his shoulders from the FIRST PRACTICE is going to be extremely intense. To many IU fans it seems as though he has become the savior of Hoosier basketball.

Razor Shines
01-24-2011, 04:32 PM
Zeller is the one I wonder about... the pressure on his shoulders from the FIRST PRACTICE is going to be extremely intense. To many IU fans it seems as though he has become the savior of Hoosier basketball.

Yeah I could see that. But the thing is the class after his is when the talent will really start to show up. That's the season I have high expectations for, not next year. Next year I will be satisfied with an ncaa berth.

WMR
01-24-2011, 04:38 PM
Yeah I could see that. But the thing is the class after his is when the talent will really start to show up. That's the season I have high expectations for, not next year. Next year I will be satisfied with an ncaa berth.

That sounds reasonable to me.

Just for an FYI, could you give me your projected 2012 starting lineup?

Hoosier Red
01-24-2011, 04:46 PM
That sounds reasonable to me.

Just for an FYI, could you give me your projected 2012 starting lineup?


My best guess would be:

PG: Yogi Farell(Fr) or Jordan Hulls (Sr)
SG: Maurice Creek(Sr) or Gary Harris (Fr)*
SF: Hanner Perea(Fr)
PF: Cody Zeller (So)
C : Peter Jurkin(Fr)

So they'll still be young, but much much much more talented.
* Has not committed, is apparantly deciding between IU and Michigan State.

BRM
01-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Yeah I could see that. But the thing is the class after his is when the talent will really start to show up. That's the season I have high expectations for, not next year. Next year I will be satisfied with an ncaa berth.

Fans would have been satisfied with an NIT berth this year but that's looking like a pipe dream. NCAA next season? That's a tough one. Real question is will fans be happy with an NIT bid and not the NCAAs next year? Cause that may be all we get.

Hoosier Red
01-24-2011, 05:34 PM
Fans would have been satisfied with an NIT berth this year but that's looking like a pipe dream. NCAA next season? That's a tough one. Real question is will fans be happy with an NIT bid and not the NCAAs next year? Cause that may be all we get.

I'd think so. More than anything I think fans want to see improvement year to year. That's what has made the whole process so frustrating.

Year 1 was expected to be bad. And it was. Year 2 we expected to see improvement, and I think there was some, although it was uneven(beat Pitt, lost to Boston, George Mason, and Loyola) and whatever the improvement, it was interrupted by Creek's knee injury.

This being year 3, I think people expected improvement because 1) Essentially everyone returned, and 2) Creek was supposed to be healthy. But Creek wasn't really healthy and the rest of the team just hasn't clicked.

It's quite possible that we'll see a huge improvement next year from this year.

Razor Shines
01-24-2011, 06:40 PM
I'd think so. More than anything I think fans want to see improvement year to year. That's what has made the whole process so frustrating.

Year 1 was expected to be bad. And it was. Year 2 we expected to see improvement, and I think there was some, although it was uneven(beat Pitt, lost to Boston, George Mason, and Loyola) and whatever the improvement, it was interrupted by Creek's knee injury.

This being year 3, I think people expected improvement because 1) Essentially everyone returned, and 2) Creek was supposed to be healthy. But Creek wasn't really healthy and the rest of the team just hasn't clicked.

It's quite possible that we'll see a huge improvement next year from this year.

I think that was a big part of people's expectations, I know it was part of mine. We all expected to see Creek almost as good as he was before he got hurt last year. Up to the point he got hurt this year he wasn't even close.

BRM
01-26-2011, 04:43 PM
Anyone read or hear Dakich's latest comments on this Hoosier's team? Here's a few tidbits, they are not pleasant.


This is the wrong thing to say, OK, but this is what real coaching is. When the season’s over, there’s gonna have to be a couple of these guys make a decision on whether or not they want to stay here. And there might actually be a couple of them that the decision’s going to be made for ‘em. There’s too much fragility, mentally, among some of these guys and you know what? Some of them aren’t freshmen. There’s not freshmen and at some point, you know what, hey, we’re paying about about 30 grand a year to come here and do this and if everything’s so fragile, maybe the MAC’s for you, not the big time.


You know, players kind of have you during the season. But I’ll tell you what, the minute that final buzzer goes off, “Alright, really? I just made a call to Ball State, congratulations, you can be a Cardinal if you’d like.”


That’s where it’s at right now. It’s to a point where we have been as nice as we can possibly be and now it’s about time to get real. These guys just don’t get it for whatever reason. And I feel bad for them in that sense because when you don’t get it, then you’re sitting there going, “What?” But the what is, hey, you’re not tough enough. But if you don’t understand what toughness is, and we’re not talking about getting into somebody’s face and punching them, we’re talking about mental toughness here. That’s where it all boils down. And this team is not mentally tough. It’s that simple.

ITH has the rest of it if you want to read more.

Hoosier Red
01-27-2011, 11:02 AM
Anyone read or hear Dakich's latest comments on this Hoosier's team? Here's a few tidbits, they are not pleasant.
ITH has the rest of it if you want to read more.

My buddy Matt has a post from CrimsonCast taking Dakich and Fisher to task.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/dont-blame-players-for-ius-current-mediocrit/

I disagree with the volume of his criticism so to speak. I think Crean has deserved his share of criticism to be sure, but I disagree that the whole thing is his fault.

Still, the mental toughness, whether it's the players fault, or the coaches fault, has to get better. And to this point it hasn't.

Razor Shines
01-27-2011, 11:40 AM
My buddy Matt has a post from CrimsonCast taking Dakich and Fisher to task.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/dont-blame-players-for-ius-current-mediocrit/

I disagree with the volume of his criticism so to speak. I think Crean has deserved his share of criticism to be sure, but I disagree that the whole thing is his fault.

Still, the mental toughness, whether it's the players fault, or the coaches fault, has to get better. And to this point it hasn't.

Can't say I agree with very much of what your buddy wrote.

I should say that I also don't agree with very much of what Dakich said either. Creek not being healthy this year and then being out all together makes a big difference.

I really see the team improving next year. Olidipo and Sheehey are talented freshman and I think they'll be impact players next season.

Hoosier Red
01-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Can't say I agree with very much of what your buddy wrote.

Heck, don't tell me, tell him. :)

As I said, I don't agree with everything he wrote, but the lack of defense and the lack of mental toughness is troubling to say the least.

I understand that more talented players are coming, and accept that the road back won't be even, but it doesn't take talent to hold Iowa under 91 points, or to not crumble when a player can't go. To me that's coaching.

The problem I have with Crean isn't that we're not winning more games, but that I'm not seeing players really progress. Is Derek Elston better than he was a year ago? How about Hulls? Verdell Jones has essentially been a guy who can make plays, but needs to limit his turnovers and they all need to become less of a defensive liability. Has any of that happened?

Razor Shines
01-27-2011, 12:47 PM
Heck, don't tell me, tell him. :)

As I said, I don't agree with everything he wrote, but the lack of defense and the lack of mental toughness is troubling to say the least.

I understand that more talented players are coming, and accept that the road back won't be even, but it doesn't take talent to hold Iowa under 91 points, or to not crumble when a player can't go. To me that's coaching.

The problem I have with Crean isn't that we're not winning more games, but that I'm not seeing players really progress. Is Derek Elston better than he was a year ago? How about Hulls? Verdell Jones has essentially been a guy who can make plays, but needs to limit his turnovers and they all need to become less of a defensive liability. Has any of that happened?

I absolutely think that Hulls has progressed. Derek Elston is going to have a tough time improving if he has to continually play out of position. He's just not big enough to play the 5 and barely big enough to play the 4. He's not athletic enough to make up for his lack of size.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 01:02 AM
Finally! Huge crowd is finally rewarded with a tremendous win. Hulls was absolutely money tonight, still needs to shoot more often but I'll take a win like this any night.

Playadlc
01-28-2011, 05:13 AM
Always nice to beat the Illini.

Got a kick out of this...YouTube - Tom Crean in the south lobby of Assembly Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH54tXSSnk&feature=youtu.be)

BRM
01-28-2011, 09:55 AM
Finally! Huge crowd is finally rewarded with a tremendous win. Hulls was absolutely money tonight, still needs to shoot more often but I'll take a win like this any night.

Rivers played like the leader and defensive stopper they need him to be. Hulls is fun to watch when he's aggressive on the offensive end like last night. Great team effort. Best defensive effort they've had in a long, long time.

Razor Shines
01-28-2011, 10:22 AM
Always nice to beat the Illini.

Got a kick out of this...YouTube - Tom Crean in the south lobby of Assembly Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH54tXSSnk&feature=youtu.be)
That's pretty cool. That crowd was awesome last night. Anybody know what they were chanting during the game when the announcers couldn't figure it out? I couldn't tell.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 10:23 AM
Rivers played like the leader and defensive stopper they need him to be. Hulls is fun to watch when he's aggressive on the offensive end like last night. Great team effort. Best defensive effort they've had in a long, long time.

To be fair, Rivers has really done that all season. For all my criticisms of the team and of Crean, Rivers has really taken to the role of defensive stalwart and offensive initiator this season.

I was joking with a friend of mine last night, IU needs to have about a 2 minute egg timer, and every time it runs out of sand, Jordan needs to shoot. Where ever he is, 80 feet from the basket, on the bench, in the locker room, doesn't matter. In reality, he's the one guy who needs to see his shooting percentage go down. Because if he's only taking shots that he's this confident in taking, he's not taking enough. A shot that Jordan doesn't quite feel good about is still better than half of the shots IU's offense will get if he passes it up.

BRM
01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
That's pretty cool. That crowd was awesome last night. Anybody know what they were chanting during the game when the announcers couldn't figure it out? I couldn't tell.

I couldn't tell either.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 10:25 AM
That's pretty cool. That crowd was awesome last night. Anybody know what they were chanting during the game when the announcers couldn't figure it out? I couldn't tell.

Shut Up Weber clap-clap, clap-clap-clap. And I think the announcers knew full well what they were chanting, and didn't want to say it over the air.

It's apparantly popular throughout the Big 10.

BRM
01-28-2011, 10:26 AM
To be fair, Rivers has really done that all season. For all my criticisms of the team and of Crean, Rivers has really taken to the role of defensive stalwart and offensive initiator this season.


For the most part, you're right. He has. But he was noticably absent, right along with his teammates, in some of those very disappointing games this year. But overall, he has been very good defensively this year.

Orenda
01-28-2011, 10:44 AM
Did anybody else think it was a bit ridiculous that the students rushed the floor last night? Sure times have been lean but come on, have expectations really fallen that far where fans are going nuts about beating the 21st ranked team in the country (which has now lost 4 out 5 btw)?

Razor Shines
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Did anybody else think it was a bit ridiculous that the students rushed the floor last night? Sure times have been lean but come on, have expectations really fallen that far where fans are going nuts about beating the 21st ranked team in the country (which has now lost 4 out 5 btw)?

Well it's better than when they rushed the court after beating Minnesota.

BRM
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
Did anybody else think it was a bit ridiculous that the students rushed the floor last night? Sure times have been lean but come on, have expectations really fallen that far where fans are going nuts about beating the 21st ranked team in the country (which has now lost 4 out 5 btw)?

19 straight losses against ranked teams. Last win against a ranked opponent was Feb 2008. I can understand it.

Razor Shines
01-28-2011, 10:54 AM
19 straight losses against ranked teams. Last win against a ranked opponent was Feb 2008. I can understand it. So yes, expectations have fallen that far.

Yeah. Personally I don't think fans should ever be allowed to rush the court. Having said that I don't like all this looking down your nose when team's do it at certain times. They're fans when you're there in the moment after so many frustrating losses you're not gonna be thinking about how other team's fans will judge you if you rush the court.

WMR
01-28-2011, 11:13 AM
Always nice to beat the Illini.

Got a kick out of this...YouTube - Tom Crean in the south lobby of Assembly Hall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH54tXSSnk&feature=youtu.be)

I knew Crean would win a championship at Indiana.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 11:16 AM
Did anybody else think it was a bit ridiculous that the students rushed the floor last night? Sure times have been lean but come on, have expectations really fallen that far where fans are going nuts about beating the 21st ranked team in the country (which has now lost 4 out 5 btw)?

Nope, rush the court after every win at this point.
If not now, when? While it may be commonplace again in the future, a 4th year senior at IU has seen the team beat exactly 3 ranked teams by my count and none since 2008. There was also something rather traumatic that happened in the mean time but I can't remember exactly what it was.

Orenda
01-28-2011, 11:34 AM
Yeah. Personally I don't think fans should ever be allowed to rush the court. Having said that I don't like all this looking down your nose when team's do it at certain times. They're fans when you're there in the moment after so many frustrating losses you're not gonna be thinking about how other team's fans will judge you if you rush the court.


It was a good win and a nice moment for Crean but I think IU fans should reserve rushing the floor for things like Big 10 championships and wins over at least top 5 opponents where they were a major underdog.

I guess you could say I'm looking down my nose but when I was watching the post game I was thinking it just seemed really odd that IU fans were rushing the floor.

I'm not trying to knock IU fans you have a good program and great fans. There aren't many places that would draw the numbers IU has through lean times like you've been in. I'm not saying you should have an entitled attitude but it's ok to expect to be good.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 11:53 AM
It was a good win and a nice moment for Crean but I think IU fans should reserve rushing the floor for things like Big 10 championships and wins over at least top 5 opponents where they were a major underdog.


I've heard other people say this, and here's my question. WHY?

Are we worried that rushing the court is going to be devalued?
Last night's win can be a program defining win. It was the first time they've stood toe to toe with a top level Big Ten team in 3 years, and not only taken their best shot, but come away victorious. IU may get to the point where beating a top 25 team at The Assembly Hall is commonplace, but there isn't a single student on campus for whom that's the case.

BRM
01-28-2011, 12:11 PM
I knew Crean would win a championship at Indiana.

That's funny.

Orenda
01-28-2011, 12:39 PM
I've heard other people say this, and here's my question. WHY?

Are we worried that rushing the court is going to be devalued?
Last night's win can be a program defining win. It was the first time they've stood toe to toe with a top level Big Ten team in 3 years, and not only taken their best shot, but come away victorious. IU may get to the point where beating a top 25 team at The Assembly Hall is commonplace, but there isn't a single student on campus for whom that's the case.

well BECAUSE although Illinois happened to be ranked, they surely won't be after last night. They have now lost 4 out of their last 5 and managed to shoot 32% from the floor against an undermanned IU team.

I disagree with you though, they were in games against Wisconsin and Minnesota but couldn't pull them out.

Hopefully your right that eeking out a 3pt win against a struggling Illinois team AT HOME will be the program defining moment of IU's turnaround.

and to answer your question no I'm not losing sleep about the depreciating value of court rushing but IMO it has lost some value. It's not like your New Jersey Tech playing with a bunch of kids with only one scholarship offer.

Hoosier Red
01-28-2011, 12:59 PM
I disagree with you though, they were in games against Wisconsin and Minnesota but couldn't pull them out.



Hence the second part of the sentence. :D
It was the first time they've stood toe to toe with a top level Big Ten team in 3 years, and not only taken their best shot, but come away victorious.

Apologies if it was unclearly written.

They've stood toe to toe with a number of teams over the past two years. Purdue and Illinois both were fortunate to win in Bloomington last year. They gave Wisconsin all they wanted(Minnesota's more of the muddled middle but still) but IU had always done just enough to lose those games until last night.

traderumor
01-28-2011, 08:00 PM
In the words of Andy Bernard, "That was an overreaction."

Hoosier Red
01-30-2011, 09:54 PM
DAGNABBIT!

One of these days we're going to get one of these road wins.

Razor Shines
01-31-2011, 02:08 AM
DAGNABBIT!

One of these days we're going to get one of these road wins.

Hulls had a rough shooting game but I hope that doesn't discourage him. IU is a much better team when he's aggressive on offense. Interesting to see Olidipo, Sheehey and Roth get big minutes,I actually like the new rotation.

BRM
01-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Interesting to see Olidipo, Sheehey and Roth get big minutes,I actually like the new rotation.

Same here. Roth and Oladipo were money last night off the bench.

Razor Shines
01-31-2011, 11:21 AM
Same here. Roth and Oladipo were money last night off the bench.

I need to memorize his name. I think I've spelled Oladipo 5 different ways in this thread.

Hoosier Red
01-31-2011, 05:17 PM
Hulls had a rough shooting game but I hope that doesn't discourage him. IU is a much better team when he's aggressive on offense. Interesting to see Olidipo, Sheehey and Roth get big minutes,I actually like the new rotation.

Oddly enough, we were upset at how few minutes Oladipo got. I don't think he played at all in overtime.

BRM
01-31-2011, 05:28 PM
Oddly enough, we were upset at how few minutes Oladipo got. I don't think he played at all in overtime.

He played 19 minutes but I believe you are right in that he did not play at all in OT. A bit surprising.

Razor Shines
01-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Oddly enough, we were upset at how few minutes Oladipo got. I don't think he played at all in overtime.

Yeah, hadn't even thought of that before now, but you're right he should have played more.

Revering4Blue
02-01-2011, 08:35 PM
Man, the Basketball Gods must be angry with I.U.


Watford out with broken hand
LaMond Pope | The Journal Gazette

Indiana's injury report continues to grow as the team announced sophomore Christian Watford is out indefinitely with a broken left hand.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110201/BLOGS08/110209953

BRM
02-02-2011, 11:13 AM
Tough, tough break for the Hoosiers. And Watford.

Hoosier Red
02-02-2011, 05:09 PM
There's been a little debate among my website's writers. My co-writer is naturally negative, and has been down on Crean since at the latest last February. After the MSU game, he turned in this gem: http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/the-no-talent-argument-stops-here/

It took me a few days, but here's my rebuttal:
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/02/the-equations-working-against-indiana/

Razor Shines
02-02-2011, 10:01 PM
There's been a little debate among my website's writers. My co-writer is naturally negative, and has been down on Crean since at the latest last February. After the MSU game, he turned in this gem: http://crimsoncast.com/2011/01/the-no-talent-argument-stops-here/

It took me a few days, but here's my rebuttal:
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/02/the-equations-working-against-indiana/

I mostly agree. I responded on the site to your buddy's post with this:


I don’t see why someone needs to be blamed here. It doesn’t have to be either the players or Crean.

The team does have talent, that is true, but it’s young talent. It’s kinda raw and raw talent is volatile. They’re gonna have games where they look great and games where they look really bad. Because while they do have young talent they don’t have the kind of young talent that is dominating and can overcome it’s youth.

IU has virtually no talent at the 5. If you want to put that on Crean, then that’s a pretty fair criticism.

On to tonight's win:

Wish they would have finished better, but they finished strong enough to get the win. That was probably the best game I've seen VJIII play all year. He was much more in the flow of the offense than he has been earlier in the season.

IU could really use another shooter. I think sometimes we forget how important a really really good shooter is and we sometimes more focus on size and athleticism. I think the team is better with Roth playing more minutes. Not to say they're better off without Creek and Watford but I think even with those two Roth should have been getting more minutes.

Tom Pritchard was ridiculous tonight. That tip dunk was so stupid Minnesota should have gone back down to 0, unless they had more than 13.

Hoosier Red
02-02-2011, 11:31 PM
Gutsy, gutsy win. Pritchard was unreal in the first half.

I loved Buckner's reaction to the tip in dunk, UGH AHH WHA!

Not crazy about the near collapse, but it was nice to see them rebound enough to win the game.

Not crazy about Daniel Moore playing as many minutes as he does. I know he's essentially become the back up point guard, but I'd like it better if they'd just sub Sheehey or Oladipo in for end of game defenses like that.

Razor Shines
02-02-2011, 11:56 PM
Gutsy, gutsy win. Pritchard was unreal in the first half.

I loved Buckner's reaction to the tip in dunk, UGH AHH WHA!

Not crazy about the near collapse, but it was nice to see them rebound enough to win the game.

Not crazy about Daniel Moore playing as many minutes as he does. I know he's essentially become the back up point guard, but I'd like it better if they'd just sub Sheehey or Oladipo in for end of game defenses like that.

Completely agree about Moore. He really doesn't bring much to the table, he's not a great shooter.

Playadlc
02-03-2011, 02:32 AM
YouTube - Tom Pritchard's JAM -vs- Minnesota 2/2/11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOwLyljRmjw)

reds44
02-03-2011, 03:16 AM
Didn't think Pritchard had that in him.

BRM
02-03-2011, 10:11 AM
Three straight quality efforts for the Hoosiers. It would be great if last night was the beginning of the turn-around for Pritchard.

Hoosier Red
02-03-2011, 10:18 AM
YouTube - Tom Pritchard's JAM -vs- Minnesota 2/2/11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOwLyljRmjw)

I can't get over Quinn Buckner's reaction. After the Send it in young fella, he just lets out this string of indecipherable grunts. Awesome.

Razor Shines
02-03-2011, 10:59 AM
YouTube - Tom Pritchard's JAM -vs- Minnesota 2/2/11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOwLyljRmjw)

I still don't understand why Minnesota didn't have to go back down to 0.

Razor Shines
02-05-2011, 07:37 PM
That was a tough one to take. They played pretty well for most of the game but gave it up in the last few. Not sure if I've seen Crean look more pissed after a game, seemed like he thought they'd moved past that type of collapse.

Hulls needs to stay aggressive for the entire game. He's made big strides but there are still periods where he goes back to passing up shots.

BRM
02-07-2011, 11:15 AM
Saturday's game was definitely tough to take. They had that one wrapped up then went into another tailspin towards the end. I still like the effort and quality of play the last 4 games or so but they had to win that one.

Razor Shines
02-07-2011, 05:54 PM
Looking at their schedule the rest of the way if they get that game against Iowa they still had a small shot at finishing above .500. For them to do it now, they'd really have to steal some games from good teams.

BRM
02-07-2011, 06:54 PM
Looking at their schedule the rest of the way if they get that game against Iowa they still had a small shot at finishing above .500. For them to do it now, they'd really have to steal some games from good teams.

Yep. That's why they had to have that game. Beating Iowa gave them a fighting chance at .500. Now it's a very tough road to get there.

Razor Shines
02-08-2011, 08:12 PM
I like how both announcers said that was a perfect charge taken by Smith on Sheehey, but actually Sheehey's hip was by Smith and that was a bad call.

Later on Smith plows into Hulls on the pass and there was no call at all and the announcers don't say anything.

Razor Shines
02-08-2011, 10:04 PM
I honestly don't see how people can still say that Crean doesn't develop players.

Hulls has made big strides. He still has a lot of room to get better, but he's getting there.

Sheehey and Oladipo have improved more than I expected them to in this year.

Those are guys with talent that can be developed.

VJIII is talented but he's probably about as good as he's going to get.

Pritchard's not that talented but he works very hard and I think we're getting as much out of him as he can give.

Elston is undersized to play 4 or 5 and probably a little too slow to play the 3. I know he was rated decently as a recruit, but I honestly don't see why. He plays hard, but there just isn't much there. He doesn't handle the ball well, he doesn't have a post game and he doesn't shoot well.

Revering4Blue
02-08-2011, 10:23 PM
I honestly don't see how people can still say that Crean doesn't develop players.

Hulls has made big strides. He still has a lot of room to get better, but he's getting there.

Sheehey and Oladipo have improved more than I expected them to in this year.

Those are guys with talent that can be developed.

VJIII is talented but he's probably about as good as he's going to get.

Pritchard's not that talented but he works very hard and I think we're getting as much out of him as he can give.

Elston is undersized to play 4 or 5 and probably a little too slow to play the 3. I know he was rated decently as a recruit, but I honestly don't see why. He plays hard, but there just isn't much there. He doesn't handle the ball well, he doesn't have a post game and he doesn't shoot well.

Well said.

Crean's biggest fault has been the inability to wave a magic wand to enable everyone to remain healthy/eligible.

Nothing more..

Nothing less..

Razor Shines
02-08-2011, 10:45 PM
My best guess would be:

PG: Yogi Farell(Fr) or Jordan Hulls (Sr)
SG: Maurice Creek(Sr) or Gary Harris (Fr)*
SF: Hanner Perea(Fr)
PF: Cody Zeller (So)
C : Peter Jurkin(Fr)

So they'll still be young, but much much much more talented.
* Has not committed, is apparantly deciding between IU and Michigan State.

I was looking for this because I remembered WMR asking the question. At the time that looked right to me, but now it would be tough for me to see that team without Oladipo and Sheehey starting. I think they're both going to be better than we thought.

Hoosier Red
02-09-2011, 10:29 AM
I was looking for this because I remembered WMR asking the question. At the time that looked right to me, but now it would be tough for me to see that team without Oladipo and Sheehey starting. I think they're both going to be better than we thought.

It's possible of course. But I think the advantage to having enough talent on the team is that really good players will come off the bench and fill roles. Sheehey and Oladipo both have improved quite a bit, but I'm not sure I want either of them in the game as a go-to guy for instance. The 4th committment IU has from that 2013 class is Ron Patterson who has actually impressed a lot of people at Broad Ripple HS this year, he's a really good player that will essentially have to be a defensive stopper if he wants playing time for his first two years.

The other thing that fans lose sight of is that players don't improve in steady upward straight line. If Hulls were to continue to improve as much as he has in the last 10 games, by his senior year he'd be Steve Nash. That's probably not going to happen. I think many were disappointed in the lack of development until the last 10 games, but it appears that a number of guys(Hulls, Oladipo, Sheehey) really have stepped their games up.

I'm sort of in the middle, I'm happy with the progress shown by some of the players, but not so much that I feel like any of them are a sure bet to be this productive in the future.

There's still a bit of concern on my part about the lack of development from the big men, but maybe Pritchard, Elston, and Capobianco are simply limited in what they can do.

Razor Shines
02-09-2011, 12:00 PM
It's possible of course. But I think the advantage to having enough talent on the team is that really good players will come off the bench and fill roles. Sheehey and Oladipo both have improved quite a bit, but I'm not sure I want either of them in the game as a go-to guy for instance. The 4th committment IU has from that 2013 class is Ron Patterson who has actually impressed a lot of people at Broad Ripple HS this year, he's a really good player that will essentially have to be a defensive stopper if he wants playing time for his first two years.

The other thing that fans lose sight of is that players don't improve in steady upward straight line. If Hulls were to continue to improve as much as he has in the last 10 games, by his senior year he'd be Steve Nash. That's probably not going to happen. I think many were disappointed in the lack of development until the last 10 games, but it appears that a number of guys(Hulls, Oladipo, Sheehey) really have stepped their games up.

I'm sort of in the middle, I'm happy with the progress shown by some of the players, but not so much that I feel like any of them are a sure bet to be this productive in the future.

There's still a bit of concern on my part about the lack of development from the big men, but maybe Pritchard, Elston, and Capobianco are simply limited in what they can do.

Hulls will be productive in the future. I'm not sure if he's an NBA talent, but he's going to be a very good B10 player.

Sheehey will be a go to player. He handles the ball well and his athleticism is crazy. He crashes the boards hard and he's pretty good on defense. Both on the ball and off the ball. He needs to work on his jumper. He jumps too high for his own good on jump shots right now. He's not yet got the timing down so his release point varies. He'll learn with time that he doesn't need to jump as high on longer shots. A lot of really athletic guys have that problem.

You can keep waiting for development from those three big men, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. Capobianco is a bruiser and probably won't be much more than that. I actually think that Pritchard does pretty well for being undersized and not that talented. Elston, I don't know what to say. He's playing out of position, it's hard to improve that way. Although I'm not sure what his position should be because he doesn't seem like a 3 either. IMO, Elston was just a bad recruit on Crean's part.

Hoosier Red
02-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Hulls will be productive in the future. I'm not sure if he's an NBA talent, but he's going to be a very good B10 player.

Sheehey will be a go to player. He handles the ball well and his athleticism is crazy. He crashes the boards hard and he's pretty good on defense. Both on the ball and off the ball. He needs to work on his jumper. He jumps too high for his own good on jump shots right now. He's not yet got the timing down so his release point varies. He'll learn with time that he doesn't need to jump as high on longer shots. A lot of really athletic guys have that problem.

You can keep waiting for development from those three big men, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen. Capobianco is a bruiser and probably won't be much more than that. I actually think that Pritchard does pretty well for being undersized and not that talented. Elston, I don't know what to say. He's playing out of position, it's hard to improve that way. Although I'm not sure what his position should be because he doesn't seem like a 3 either. IMO, Elston was just a bad recruit on Crean's part.

I agree with all of your analysis as far as what the players can become. My point was that until about 10 games ago, many of the players even those like Hulls and Watford who had been around for more than a year had been frustratingly slow in their development, then all of a sudden Hulls packs 1 1/2 worth of progression into a 10 game spell. Obviously he won't continue to progress this quickly for the rest of his IU career.
Similarly, we've seen Sheehey put together 3-4 really good games, a light switch has gone off for him I think, but he's not going to make a similar jump every 3-4 games obviously. Oladipo still has a lot of "freshman moments, particularly on defensive assignments, but he's also had a little bit of a light go off.

My concern with the big men is more rooted in Crean's inability to truly develop big men even when he was at Marquette. On one hand, that's not a damning indictment, he still won games there, and won games in the very physical Big East there, so maybe he doesn't truly need a big man. On the other hand, if Cody Zeller doesn't really develop, I'm not sure how much better this team can be next year or the year after if he's nothing more than a rich man's Tom Prichard.

Again, I'm not nearly as pessimistic about this as many of my co-writer's in particular, but I'm not as doe eyed in my optimism either. There's still a lot of things that need to get a lot better for IU to return to the tournament. I expect many of them will, but it's far from a certainty.

Razor Shines
02-09-2011, 02:37 PM
I agree with all of your analysis as far as what the players can become. My point was that until about 10 games ago, many of the players even those like Hulls and Watford who had been around for more than a year had been frustratingly slow in their development, then all of a sudden Hulls packs 1 1/2 worth of progression into a 10 game spell. Obviously he won't continue to progress this quickly for the rest of his IU career.
Similarly, we've seen Sheehey put together 3-4 really good games, a light switch has gone off for him I think, but he's not going to make a similar jump every 3-4 games obviously. Oladipo still has a lot of "freshman moments, particularly on defensive assignments, but he's also had a little bit of a light go off.

My concern with the big men is more rooted in Crean's inability to truly develop big men even when he was at Marquette. On one hand, that's not a damning indictment, he still won games there, and won games in the very physical Big East there, so maybe he doesn't truly need a big man. On the other hand, if Cody Zeller doesn't really develop, I'm not sure how much better this team can be next year or the year after if he's nothing more than a rich man's Tom Prichard.

Again, I'm not nearly as pessimistic about this as many of my co-writer's in particular, but I'm not as doe eyed in my optimism either. There's still a lot of things that need to get a lot better for IU to return to the tournament. I expect many of them will, but it's far from a certainty.

OK. I see what you're saying about "up until 10 games ago". Although I don't think it's all happened in that 10 game stretch. I think a lot of it has to do with Creek and Watford going down. I think that allowed Hulls and Sheehey in particular to feel more comfortable in being aggressive on offense. It's kind tough to be aggressive on offense when you come into a season having accepted that you're going to be more of a role player to your offensive "studs".

But I still see your point and I don't expect them to keep progressing at this perceived rate either. And I don't think it's necessary.

I think Zeller could play this year and be more than a "rich man's Pritchard". He's already got more back to the basket moves than Pritchard will ever have. Not to say I expect him to come in and dominate next year. I look for him to have a freshman year similar to Jason Collier's freshman year. Maybe a little better, he's got more post moves than Collier but not quite as good of a shooter.

Razor Shines
02-12-2011, 05:07 PM
5 guard lineup to start? Guess we'll see how Sheehey does at the 5. LOL.

Hoosier Red
02-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Wow, that was an U-G-L-Y game. But great character shown by the Hoosiers, cut lead from 22 points at 5 minute mark to a final of 4.

Most amazing in that close loss was Hulls and Roth both missed decent looks from 3 in the final 18 seconds. Michigan just completely came unglued at the free throw line. The Wolverines started 8-8, but finished 19-37. So in their last 29 attempts, Michigan made 11, including an airball from Stu Douglass.

IU was actually not even that good from the line, the Hoosiers only went 13-22.

Hoosier Red
02-14-2011, 12:38 PM
My latest attempt to dispel the coercive negativity permeated by the rest of my site's editors.

http://crimsoncast.com/?p=891

Razor Shines
02-14-2011, 12:57 PM
My latest attempt to dispel the coercive negativity permeated by the rest of my site's editors.

http://crimsoncast.com/?p=891

Wow. Comparing Crean to RichRod? That's pretty rough.

It's been a tough season for sure. I think they were starting to learn to play without Jones and Watford, now that they're both back playing big minutes the team needs to adjust again. Seemed like Hulls kinda went back to not being as aggressive.

I defend Crean on a lot of things, but I don't understand that lineup he started the game with. I think that set them back. They played well at the end of the second half, I think if Crean had started with a normal lineup they may have had a chance to win that one.

Hoosier Red
02-14-2011, 01:17 PM
Wow. Comparing Crean to RichRod? That's pretty rough.

It's been a tough season for sure. I think they were starting to learn to play without Jones and Watford, now that they're both back playing big minutes the team needs to adjust again. Seemed like Hulls kinda went back to not being as aggressive.

I defend Crean on a lot of things, but I don't understand that lineup he started the game with. I think that set them back. They played well at the end of the second half, I think if Crean had started with a normal lineup they may have had a chance to win that one.

I think it was an attempt to get the 5 guys who were playing best on the court at the same time. Sort of like leading off Adam Dunn, some things are out of the box for a reason.

In a lot of ways Crean's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He's criticized by many for not playing Sheehey early on, now Sheehey starts and plays 25 minutes, but it comes often at the expense of Victor Oladipo and people wonder why he's not playing as much.
The obvious targets are VJIII and Pritchard, but we saw what happened when they took out Pritchard, and without VJIII the offense was the least efficient it's been all season(hard to believe I know.)

Razor Shines
02-14-2011, 01:26 PM
I think it was an attempt to get the 5 guys who were playing best on the court at the same time. Sort of like leading off Adam Dunn, some things are out of the box for a reason.

In a lot of ways Crean's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He's criticized by many for not playing Sheehey early on, now Sheehey starts and plays 25 minutes, but it comes often at the expense of Victor Oladipo and people wonder why he's not playing as much.
The obvious targets are VJIII and Pritchard, but we saw what happened when they took out Pritchard, and without VJIII the offense was the least efficient it's been all season(hard to believe I know.)

Yeah, I get that but you can't start a guy who is 6'5" 200 at the 5. It doesn't help Sheehey's development to play out of position.

Josh
02-14-2011, 10:26 PM
Sorry to bust in the middle and totally go off the wall but I just have a quick question, will Guy Marc be able to play next year of is he totally out?

Razor Shines
02-14-2011, 11:08 PM
Sorry to bust in the middle and totally go off the wall but I just have a quick question, will Guy Marc be able to play next year of is he totally out?

No, his eligibility will be up after this season I believe. NCAA ruled that his clock started in '06.

Josh
02-15-2011, 12:09 AM
No, his eligibility will be up after this season I believe. NCAA ruled that his clock started in '06.

Werd thanks for your help!

gilpdawg
02-15-2011, 01:50 AM
That is correct. He's done.

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Hoosier Red
02-21-2011, 03:59 PM
My latest attempt to assuage the collective Hoosier angst. Or at least to compartmentalize it.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=942

Razor Shines
02-21-2011, 05:13 PM
My latest attempt to assuage the collective Hoosier angst. Or at least to compartmentalize it.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=942

I agree with most that. I do not either understand why Daniel Moore plays at all. If he was a great shooter, like Roth, I'd get it, but he brings nothing that more athletic and talented guys don't already bring.




Passive attitude: Concerned- I’ve often thought that the reason the offense goes through Verdell Jones III so much, whether it should or not, is because he’s the only one who has shown any desire to be aggressive. While his determination is often a negative, because his skills don’t match up, it’s a concern that the more talented players like Christian Watford and Jordan Hulls don’t possess the same quality. There’s obviously a balance that needs to be reached. Sometimes judgement is the better of valor, but I’d like to see Hulls in particular adopt more of a “screw you, I’m scoring on this possession no matter what” attitude. In the last 4 games, Hulls has gone from taking 17 shots against Iowa to 9 shots against Michigan and Northwestern. Despite not missing a free throw since the Kentucky game, he’s only gotten to the line for more than 4 attempts once. Defensively, there’s a similar timid mindset at times. The revelation that Will Sheehey was the only one who wanted a specific defensive assignment on Saturday, says a lot about the more experienced players. I think this is what Crean is talking about in terms of accountability. No one on the team seems to want to be the guy everyone else is counting on, at least not for more than a stretch here or there. How much of that is Crean’s responsibility versus how much is the player’s responsibility? I can’t answer but I think both have some blame. More important to future seasons, is this a trait that can be developed from the current group? Even as talented freshmen come in, there needs to be a culture in which all players are comfortable holding each other and themselves accountable. Whether dictated by the coach, or dictated by each player to one another, this culture is something that has to change.

This is a tough situation for guys like Hulls and Sheehey. I can see Crean getting frustrated with Hulls. There was one shot of him the other night getting right in Hulls' face and screaming "something, something SHOOT the BALL!"

They came into this season and the rolls were pretty much set. The scorers were going to be Creek, Jones and Watford. I agree that Hulls is a better option than perhaps all of those guys and it's very possible that Crean feels that way as well. Hulls though is in the tough spot of trying not to upset or "step on the toes" of his teammates while at the same time appease the coach who thinks he should be more aggressive. The yo-yoing back and forth of the roster has probably made it more confusing.

I've been in Hulls' spot (clearly not at that level). I've been the younger guy where upper classmen where the designated scorers and at the same time a coach screaming at me to be more aggressive. All I can say from my experience is that it sucks and I'll give Hulls this season to be confused but he better be ready to be a #1 or #2 option on offense next year.

Hoosier Red
02-21-2011, 05:24 PM
Good points, though I've singled out Hulls, it's really a whole team concept on both offense and defense. I remember one of Marvin Lewis' first year's with the Bengals, the mantra was "Do your job." And the general idea was that because you weren't 100% sure you wouldn't have to cover for the next guy, you weren't able to aggressively do your own job. As a result you lose either way.

I see that with IU a little bit, because there's a concern about a turnover leading to an early basket, the point guard is less aggressive going to the basket, because there's a concern that the rebounders won't be in position in case of a miss, a decent look early in the shot clock is passed up, because you're not 100% sure your guy will be able to fight through his screen, you hedge just a little bit and leave the roll option wide open, because you can't be 100% sure that the other defender will see a back cut, you take your eye off your own guy for just a second and he gets an easy look. In the games IU won, you didn't see that. Defensively, guys simply sold out 100% and didn't worry about what the other 4 guys were doing.

Hoosier Red
02-25-2011, 12:04 PM
I figured out why Indiana's going to the NCAA tournament next year.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=1005

Boston Red
03-06-2011, 05:43 PM
Didn't really want to start a new thread for this (and I doubt IU and ISU are really rivals), so I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed watching the Sycamores in the Valley Tournament. I think their fans will really enjoy watching that freshman PG Odum play the next three years. He's a good one! Congrats to the Sycamores!

Revering4Blue
03-07-2011, 04:37 PM
Didn't really want to start a new thread for this (and I doubt IU and ISU are really rivals), so I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed watching the Sycamores in the Valley Tournament. I think their fans will really enjoy watching that freshman PG Odum play the next three years. He's a good one! Congrats to the Sycamores!
The more teams from the Ohio Valley area in The NCAA's, the better.

Revering4Blue
03-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Not at all surprising.

Pat Knight fired at Texas Tech

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6189498&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

BRM
03-07-2011, 04:51 PM
I'll be curious to see where Pat ends up next.

Razor Shines
03-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Not at all surprising.

Pat Knight fired at Texas Tech

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6189498&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Tough spot. From what I understand there wasn't much recruiting done while his Dad was there.

But Pat wasn't getting a HC job anywhere else either. I imagine he'll have to be an assistant for a few more years.

BRM
03-07-2011, 05:31 PM
Tough spot. From what I understand there wasn't much recruiting done while his Dad was there.

But Pat wasn't getting a HC job anywhere else either. I imagine he'll have to be an assistant for a few more years.

I can see him getting an offer from a small school. A low-end, struggling mid-major perhaps.

Revering4Blue
03-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Steve Alford an option for Texas Tech?

http://lubbockonline.com/sports-red-raiders-mens-basketball/2011-03-08/tech-expected-move-swiftly-replacing-knight

I'll be shocked if Billy Gillespie doesn't land the gig.

Hoosier Red
03-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Steve Alford an option for Texas Tech?

http://lubbockonline.com/sports-red-raiders-mens-basketball/2011-03-08/tech-expected-move-swiftly-replacing-knight

I'll be shocked if Billy Gillespie doesn't land the gig.

Don't take this the wrong way R4B, but my heart sinks whenever I see a post from you in the Hoosier Hoops thread.
I'm fairly confident that next year will be much better than this year. I've made a number of posts on Crimsoncast detailing where I thinK IU will be better, and the rest of the B1G Ten takes a step back.
But all of that crumbles if players like Hulls or Watford look to transfer.
On one hand it'd be hard to blame them if they did, this has to have been much harder than even they could have envisioned. But to get so close(IMO at least) and transfer now would make it all the more heartbreaking.

BRM
03-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Are there rumors of those two possibly transferring?

Hoosier Red
03-10-2011, 04:34 PM
Are there rumors of those two possibly transferring?

Not really anything. As I pointed out in my CrimsonCast column before it got hacked, I've seen so many losing seasons in the sports I cheer for, I expect pretty much bad news all the time.

Razor Shines
03-10-2011, 10:57 PM
I almost hate Ed Hightower. I cannot believe they continue to let him ref games. His crews always favor the bigger more athletic teams. They ref based off of perception. "Oh, they're a physical team."
ou
Penn St. guys were over the back all night. Awful. So many ticky-tac fouls called on IU. And then at then end of the game IU was clearly fouling, but no calls. They had been calling much less on IU all night.

How does #22 for Penn St. get a dunk and then get up in Watford's face and scream at him and no tech? I hope Penn St. gets beat by 30 and misses the NCAA tourney. So many whiners, when they were getting all the calls.

Hoosier Red
03-11-2011, 12:14 AM
I almost hate Ed Hightower. I cannot believe they continue to let him ref games. His crews always favor the bigger more athletic teams. They ref based off of perception. "Oh, they're a physical team."
ou
Penn St. guys were over the back all night. Awful. So many ticky-tac fouls called on IU. And then at then end of the game IU was clearly fouling, but no calls. They had been calling much less on IU all night.

How does #22 for Penn St. get a dunk and then get up in Watford's face and scream at him and no tech? I hope Penn St. gets beat by 30 and misses the NCAA tourney. So many whiners, when they were getting all the calls.

Well it strikes at IU not being aggressive enough going to the rim, but it's almost impossible to imagine a team could go 21 minutes of game time and not commit a foul.
I always liked Ed Hightower, in the Ted Valentine's Day Massacre(Tuesday February 24th 1998,*) Hightower matched Valentine bad call against Illinois for every bad call Valentine made against IU, apparantly they fought in the officials locker room at half time too.

*This was the first IU game Valentine had done since the 1992 Final Four against Duke where he practically fouled out the entire IU starting five. Big Ten practically tied itself in knots to make sure he didn't officiate IU games until this night. On this night he gave Bob Knight 3 technical fouls. The first was for Knight saying the wrong thing after Teddy TV complained about an IU flag brushing up against him. The second was for running onto the court to check on Luke Recker who had been drilled into the backboard support and was lying on the floor. The third was for Knight going berserk after the second Technical call. Knight probably deserved that last one admittedly.

My friend checked into it and Valentine didn't do any more IU games until this year.

rdiersin
03-11-2011, 01:17 AM
Well it strikes at IU not being aggressive enough going to the rim, but it's almost impossible to imagine a team could go 21 minutes of game time and not commit a foul.
I always liked Ed Hightower, in the Ted Valentine's Day Massacre(Tuesday February 24th 1998,*) Hightower matched Valentine bad call against Illinois for every bad call Valentine made against IU, apparantly they fought in the officials locker room at half time too.

*This was the first IU game Valentine had done since the 1992 Final Four against Duke where he practically fouled out the entire IU starting five. Big Ten practically tied itself in knots to make sure he didn't officiate IU games until this night. On this night he gave Bob Knight 3 technical fouls. The first was for Knight saying the wrong thing after Teddy TV complained about an IU flag brushing up against him. The second was for running onto the court to check on Luke Recker who had been drilled into the backboard support and was lying on the floor. The third was for Knight going berserk after the second Technical call. Knight probably deserved that last one admittedly.

My friend checked into it and Valentine didn't do any more IU games until this year.

Ed Hightower has to be the worst ref in the game. Watch him. He will blow the whistle, wait about 30sec or a minute, then and only then will he figure out what he wanted to call. He makes it up as he goes. Also, there is always going to be a point in a game he calls where the team of refs call foul after foul after foul for a 2-4 minute stretch, and then let both teams go on. He may be fair, but he is just so bad.

Hoosier Red
03-12-2011, 01:14 AM
Ed Hightower has to be the worst ref in the game. Watch him. He will blow the whistle, wait about 30sec or a minute, then and only then will he figure out what he wanted to call. He makes it up as he goes. Also, there is always going to be a point in a game he calls where the team of refs call foul after foul after foul for a 2-4 minute stretch, and then let both teams go on. He may be fair, but he is just so bad.

Oh I think he's atrocious. Just have fond memories of him being horrific in IU's favor. But between him, Jim Burr, Tim Higgins, and Teddy TV, they all suck. And yet every game seems to have at least one of them.

gilpdawg
03-13-2011, 06:49 AM
I went and saw Yogi play tonight. He's good. :) Duh.

Revering4Blue
03-21-2011, 08:04 PM
Relax, this is good news..


As it stands right now, Indiana already has the top 2012 recruiting class. Recruits Hanner Perea and Kevin Ferrell are both five-stars. Ron Patterson is a four-star, and Peter Jurkin is a ranked three-star.

If Jeremy Hollowell, who is the No. 39-ranked prospect in the Rivals150, does chose Indiana, he will give the Hoosiers a good chance to hold onto the No. 1 spot in the 2012 team recruiting rankings for good.

To top it all off, the Hoosiers are very much in the mix for Gary Harris.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1201940

redsfanmia
03-21-2011, 08:12 PM
Relax, this is good news..



To top it all off, the Hoosiers are very much in the mix for Gary Harris.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1201940

Lets just hope that Tom Crean can coach these guys up when/if they come to Indiana.

Hoosier Red
03-22-2011, 01:20 PM
Relax, this is good news..



To top it all off, the Hoosiers are very much in the mix for Gary Harris.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1201940

Yeah, I'm going to be surprised if Hollowell and Harris as they seem to be such similar players. This also creates a bit of a scholarship issue in 2012, but it's possible that we see a transfer or perhaps someone like Watford going to the NBA.

What's striking to me isn't just that Indiana's getting these kids, but that Indiana's getting them AND Purdue's not. I know Crean's a great recruiter, and IU will always have an advantage in-state. But following a period where Purdue had it's most success in at least 10 years, and IU was at the lowest point in program history, and yet Indiana has beaten them at recruiting for at the very least the next two years and has a leg up for the years immediately following.

Hoosier Red
03-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Jeremy Hollowell commits.

That's a great haul of in-state talent there.

Perrea, Farrell, Patterson, and Hollowell. Plus the ever tragically named Peter Jurkin from Charlotte and it's easily the most impressive group to come through Bloomington since at least 2000(Jared Jeffries and others) and probably going back to the Damon Bailey/Alan Henderson classes.

redsfanmia
03-24-2011, 06:43 PM
Jeremy Hollowell commits.

That's a great haul of in-state talent there.

Perrea, Farrell, Patterson, and Hollowell. Plus the ever tragically named Peter Jurkin from Charlotte and it's easily the most impressive group to come through Bloomington since at least 2000(Jared Jeffries and others) and probably going back to the Damon Bailey/Alan Henderson classes.

The Bailey/Henderson classes were thin. I think you are remembering the Cheaney, Grahams, Lawson, Funderburke, Reynolds class.

Hoosier Red
03-25-2011, 12:18 PM
The Bailey/Henderson classes were thin. I think you are remembering the Cheaney, Grahams, Lawson, Funderburke, Reynolds class.

You're right. My mind first went to Cheaney/Bailey. But then I realized they were a seperate class.

I don't know if a La Lumiere player is eligible for Mr. Basketball, but if so, I'd think it's quite possible that IU will end up with players #1-#4 on the ballot next year.

Revering4Blue
03-25-2011, 12:55 PM
Looking back the '89 IU class, believe it or not, the lowest rated member coming out of high school was actually Calbert Cheaney. Isn't that bizarre?

I'm not sure Funderburke and Henderson could have played together. Lawson did not and would not have given IU anything that Todd Lindeman and Matt Nover did not provide.

Finally, while many Hoosier fans rightfully lament Alan Henderson's '93 injury, many contend--and not just Hoosier fans--that Pat Graham's medical redshirt in 1992 cost the Hoosiers a National Championship banner. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

WMR
03-25-2011, 02:04 PM
Who wants to make a bet on who has the better freshman season, Indiana Mr. Basketball or Marquis Teague.

redsfanmia
03-25-2011, 03:42 PM
Looking back the '89 IU class, believe it or not, the lowest rated member coming out of high school was actually Calbert Cheaney. Isn't that bizarre?

I'm not sure Funderburke and Henderson could have played together. Lawson did not and would not have given IU anything that Todd Lindeman and Matt Nover did not provide.

Finally, while many Hoosier fans rightfully lament Alan Henderson's '93 injury, many contend--and not just Hoosier fans--that Pat Graham's medical redshirt in 1992 cost the Hoosiers a National Championship banner. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Lindeman was a waste and Lawson was 10x the player he was. Lawson was a sensitive kid who could not handle Knight.

Cheaney was hurt his senior season and that is why he was not rated highly.

redsfanmia
03-25-2011, 03:45 PM
Who wants to make a bet on who has the better freshman season, Indiana Mr. Basketball or Marquis Teague.

Different types of players and on teams with different goals, it would be hard to judge who has the better season.

Revering4Blue
03-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Lindeman was a waste and Lawson was 10x the player he was. Lawson was a sensitive kid who could not handle Knight.

Cheaney was hurt his senior season and that is why he was not rated highly.

I wouldn't call Lindeman a waste. Granted, he was no Kent Benson, but he at least latched on to an NBA roster at one time. Not sure if he ever actually played. That stated, it was/is a bad comparison on my part. I had completely forgotten that Lindeman played sparingly in his freshman season of '92, and was redshirted in '93, which would have been Lawson's senior year had he not transferred to Vandy.

As for Cheaney, I was living in NC at the time and did not know that.

Good call.

Revering4Blue
03-25-2011, 08:18 PM
It's interesting that the Class of 2112 contains one player at each position--PG, SG, SF, PF and C. By all accounts, Jurkin is the most raw out of all of them and may only sparingly contribute early. Then again, if Zeller provides the shot blocking threat IU sorely needs--an overlooked facet of his game--Jurkin can be eased along.

redsfanmia
03-25-2011, 08:28 PM
I wouldn't call Lindeman a waste. Granted, he was no Kent Benson, but he at least latched on to an NBA roster at one time. Not sure if he ever actually played. That stated, it was/is a bad comparison on my part. I had completely forgotten that Lindeman played sparingly in his freshman season of '92, and was redshirted in '93, which would have been Lawson's senior year had he not transferred to Vandy.



Lindeman was terrible, he averaged 5.9 points a game for a career and was widely inconsistant and could never be counted on to perform. He was a just a bit ahead of guys like Robbie Eggers and Magnus Pelkowski.

Revering4Blue
03-25-2011, 08:48 PM
Hopefully we can land another Walt Bellamy.

Man, it's been awhile since IU has had a dominant--or at least competent-- post player or shotblocker.

The D.J White era seems a lifetime ago.

TeamSelig
03-26-2011, 01:08 AM
So what is Cody's talent level compared to his brothers?

gilpdawg
03-26-2011, 01:33 AM
It's interesting that the Class of 2112
So Geddy, Alex, and Neil are going to be Hoosiers? :)


Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Razor Shines
03-26-2011, 03:15 AM
So what is Cody's talent level compared to his brothers?

Supposedly the most talented. Plays more like Tyler than Luke but can shoot better than Tyler.

Revering4Blue
03-26-2011, 11:22 AM
So Geddy, Alex, and Neil are going to be Hoosiers? :)


Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Only if they bring the "Analog Kid" with them.

Good one, Gilpdawg.

Razor Shines
03-28-2011, 03:25 AM
YouTube - IU Basketball Recruits Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell / Highlight mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hZkmTgLT60&feature=related)

I like watching that.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 10:25 AM
Too bad it's a full year away. Well the Ferrell/Perea/Holloway/Harris? class is at least.

Now it appears that Matt Painter is leaving Purdue for Missouri. I just hope Brad Steven's cell phone is broken until Purdue hires a new coach.

Razor Shines
03-28-2011, 11:53 AM
Too bad it's a full year away. Well the Ferrell/Perea/Holloway/Harris? class is at least.

I know but I think Etherington will be better than people think. I watched a lot of video on him last night. I think he'll bulk up quicker than Zeller and he'll make an impact next year. I think next season will be a solid season.


Now it appears that Matt Painter is leaving Purdue for Missouri. I just hope Brad Steven's cell phone is broken until Purdue hires a new coach.



I don't think he'll go. I think he's just trying to get his contract reworked. He's paid pretty low. Mizz is reportedly offering $2M per and I think if Purdue matches it he will stay. It's got to be about money, right? Mizz isn't a step up from Purdue.

I can't imagine him leaving this year after all that Hummel has had to do to come back again.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 02:30 PM
I know but I think Etherington will be better than people think. I watched a lot of video on him last night. I think he'll bulk up quicker than Zeller and he'll make an impact next year. I think next season will be a solid season.

I agree, I've been telling everyone who would listen that I think IU makes the NCAA tournament next year.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/03/sorry-bob-the-nit-is-not-enough/



I don't think he'll go. I think he's just trying to get his contract reworked. He's paid pretty low. Mizz is reportedly offering $2M per and I think if Purdue matches it he will stay. It's got to be about money, right? Mizz isn't a step up from Purdue.

I can't imagine him leaving this year after all that Hummel has had to do to come back again.

I can. 1) Purdue fans are notoriously unsatisfied. Despite the stellar coaching job he did this year, I've heard more than a few complain about him getting out coached by Shaka Smart.(Yeah along with 4 other Hall of Fame coaches)2)I think there's a small part of him that looks at the landscape of the state and realizes it's going to be a long road ahead to get back. Butler has a system in place and has gotten results on the court. IU has the talent coming in, and while not as satisfying as winning on the court, it feels good to be beating Purdue in something.

Add to the fact that unlike 5 years ago, The AD can't lean on the Football program to bring in extra revenue, and will have to seriously be considering the options for a new Football coach, they may not be able to match $2 million.

rdiersin
03-28-2011, 03:02 PM
I agree, I've been telling everyone who would listen that I think IU makes the NCAA tournament next year.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/03/sorry-bob-the-nit-is-not-enough/



I can. 1) Purdue fans are notoriously unsatisfied. Despite the stellar coaching job he did this year, I've heard more than a few complain about him getting out coached by Shaka Smart.(Yeah along with 4 other Hall of Fame coaches)2)I think there's a small part of him that looks at the landscape of the state and realizes it's going to be a long road ahead to get back. Butler has a system in place and has gotten results on the court. IU has the talent coming in, and while not as satisfying as winning on the court, it feels good to be beating Purdue in something.

Add to the fact that unlike 5 years ago, The AD can't lean on the Football program to bring in extra revenue, and will have to seriously be considering the options for a new Football coach, they may not be able to match $2 million.

As to (1), I'm a Purdue fan and haven't heard anyone say anything such as what whoever you talked to did. Most Purdue fans are pretty happy with Painter, and honestly I haven't heard one say otherwise. I would be disappointed if he left, but the style of play he coaches is just fun to watch and I will be a fan of Painter wherever he goes. Hopefully, for me at least maybe not you IU fans, that is still at Purdue.

redsfanmia
03-28-2011, 03:13 PM
I agree, I've been telling everyone who would listen that I think IU makes the NCAA tournament next year.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/03/sorry-bob-the-nit-is-not-enough/



I can. 1) Purdue fans are notoriously unsatisfied. Despite the stellar coaching job he did this year, I've heard more than a few complain about him getting out coached by Shaka Smart.(Yeah along with 4 other Hall of Fame coaches)2)I think there's a small part of him that looks at the landscape of the state and realizes it's going to be a long road ahead to get back. Butler has a system in place and has gotten results on the court. IU has the talent coming in, and while not as satisfying as winning on the court, it feels good to be beating Purdue in something.

Add to the fact that unlike 5 years ago, The AD can't lean on the Football program to bring in extra revenue, and will have to seriously be considering the options for a new Football coach, they may not be able to match $2 million.

You don't seriously think that Purdue is looking to replace Danny Hope do you?

Painter is a fine coach and Purdue would be stupid to let him go.

rdiersin
03-28-2011, 03:41 PM
You don't seriously think that Purdue is looking to replace Danny Hope do you?

Painter is a fine coach and Purdue would be stupid to let him go.

Another year like last and I think Hope has no hope to being the Purdue head coach. There were mumblings at the end of last year.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 03:47 PM
You don't seriously think that Purdue is looking to replace Danny Hope do you?

Painter is a fine coach and Purdue would be stupid to let him go.
The football program has been trending the wrong way the last few years(though I know they've had some rough luck along with it.) They're 4-8,5-7, 4-8 since he came back to campus(the first year Tiller was still the head coach in name.) There isn't a lot of buzz about recruiting, so unless he knows something the rest of the Big Ten doesn't about the kids being recruited, I'm not sure what he'd hang his hat on. The last point about recruiting, maybe he's right and his players are better than the various ratings services have them listed, but they better be. Because not only is the class not particularly highly ranked, it's not particularly local. I just looked at the Rivals database for Purdue recruits, and of the 59 players listed as signed with Purdue in the last 3 years, only 4 were from Indiana. Maybe that's a better recruiting strategy, but in my experience, if you're not going to be recruiting the boosters neighbors kid, you better win. My guess is his seat isn't hot yet, but if they're below .500 this year, that seats going to be plenty toasty.

I agree Painter's a fine coach, but it's not always as simple as "pay the man Shirley." The problem was they didn't pay him more up front, so if Mizzou offers $2 million(allegedly they have) it's harder for Purdue to come back with a $1.5 million contract offer.
If Purdue had offered $1.5 million to begin with, perhaps he wouldn't have even listened to Mizzou.

redsfanmia
03-28-2011, 04:15 PM
The football program has been trending the wrong way the last few years(though I know they've had some rough luck along with it.) They're 4-8,5-7, 4-8 since he came back to campus(the first year Tiller was still the head coach in name.) There isn't a lot of buzz about recruiting, so unless he knows something the rest of the Big Ten doesn't about the kids being recruited, I'm not sure what he'd hang his hat on. The last point about recruiting, maybe he's right and his players are better than the various ratings services have them listed, but they better be. Because not only is the class not particularly highly ranked, it's not particularly local. I just looked at the Rivals database for Purdue recruits, and of the 59 players listed as signed with Purdue in the last 3 years, only 4 were from Indiana. Maybe that's a better recruiting strategy, but in my experience, if you're not going to be recruiting the boosters neighbors kid, you better win. My guess is his seat isn't hot yet, but if they're below .500 this year, that seats going to be plenty toasty.

I agree Painter's a fine coach, but it's not always as simple as "pay the man Shirley." The problem was they didn't pay him more up front, so if Mizzou offers $2 million(allegedly they have) it's harder for Purdue to come back with a $1.5 million contract offer.
If Purdue had offered $1.5 million to begin with, perhaps he wouldn't have even listened to Mizzou.

Any chance Missouri would offer Crean the job so we could hire Brad Stevens?

Razor Shines
03-28-2011, 04:40 PM
Any chance Missouri would offer Crean the job so we could hire Brad Stevens?

:rolleyes:

I'm sure Mizz would love to get Crean, but why would he take it? Why would we want him to take it? We have to at least see what he can do with his big class he has coming in 2012.

As much as I like Stevens I'm not convinced he'd had done a better job with IU the last two years.

redsfanmia
03-28-2011, 05:13 PM
:rolleyes:

I'm sure Mizz would love to get Crean, but why would he take it? Why would we want him to take it? We have to at least see what he can do with his big class he has coming in 2012.

As much as I like Stevens I'm not convinced he'd had done a better job with IU the last two years.

Has any IU player improved under Crean? Hulls is about it. I think Crean is a wonderful recruiter but I question his coaching ability. I think with Stevens or Painter as coach this past season IU goes a few games over .500.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Has any IU player improved under Crean? Hulls is about it. I think Crean is a wonderful recruiter but I question his coaching ability. I think with Stevens or Painter as coach this past season IU goes a few games over .500.

Statistically speaking pretty much all the wings/Guards have.
(Conference Games Only)
Watford
11.83 PPG to 14 PPG
Hulls
6.355PPG-11.031PPG
Even VJ III has seen his points/game go down, but his turnover % has gotten much better.(Which is frightening because it's still not what I'd call good.)

Oladipo and Sheehey were light years ahead of where they started in terms of contribution offensive and defensively from the beginning of the year to the end.
And as far as getting guys to fit in, I'd argue Rivers and Pritchard had definitely developed into decent role players by the end of this year.

Now the lack of a big man developing tempers my enthusiasm a bit, because Cody Zeller is not going to be ready like Jared Sullinger was this year.

But since I expect most of the conference to take a gigantic step backward next year, I expect IU to finish in the top 5.

WMR
03-28-2011, 06:26 PM
HR, so if IU DOESN'T finish in the top 5 of the Big 10 and isn't an NCAA tournament team, what should be done with Crean?

redsfanmia
03-28-2011, 06:27 PM
Statistically speaking pretty much all the wings/Guards have.
(Conference Games Only)
Watford
11.83 PPG to 14 PPG
Hulls
6.355PPG-11.031PPG
Even VJ III has seen his points/game go down, but his turnover % has gotten much better.(Which is frightening because it's still not what I'd call good.)

Oladipo and Sheehey were light years ahead of where they started in terms of contribution offensive and defensively from the beginning of the year to the end.
And as far as getting guys to fit in, I'd argue Rivers and Pritchard had definitely developed into decent role players by the end of this year.

Now the lack of a big man developing tempers my enthusiasm a bit, because Cody Zeller is not going to be ready like Jared Sullinger was this year.

But since I expect most of the conference to take a gigantic step backward next year, I expect IU to finish in the top 5.

I hope you are right, I just question Crean's coaching ability. I think if the Hoosiers do not make a tournament next year the seat will begin to warm up for Crean.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 07:45 PM
HR, so if IU DOESN'T finish in the top 5 of the Big 10 and isn't an NCAA tournament team, what should be done with Crean?

It depends. There's of course a large difference between finishing 6th and going to the NIT, and finishing 3-15 again.

I'd be in favor of starting to put a little bit of extra pressure if IU misses the tournament, but my guess is most of the fan base would be content to wait until 2012-2013 to pass judgement.

Hoosier Red
03-28-2011, 07:46 PM
I hope you are right, I just question Crean's coaching ability. I think if the Hoosiers do not make a tournament next year the seat will begin to warm up for Crean.

There's certainly plenty to question about Crean, but part of the problem was that IU picked the wrong three years to be less than mediocre. The middle of the Big Ten were all just about 1 level above IU.

gilpdawg
03-28-2011, 07:47 PM
HR, so if IU DOESN'T finish in the top 5 of the Big 10 and isn't an NCAA tournament team, what should be done with Crean?

I think that the majority of the fan base understand that even if next year doesn't live up to the potential that we are stuck with Crean until the "superclass" comes in for better or worse. A coaching change before then could set the program back to where they started.

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk