Hoosier Hoops

[Revering4Blue]

I agree with this. One other point: It is much easier to recruit at Mizzou than Purdue. Purdue hasn't hit a home run in that department since Cuonzo Martin, now UT's head man, left to take over the Missouri State job in 2008.

[Revering4Blue]

Only if either one of them possessed the ability to wave a magic wand to ensure that everyone remained healthy. As banged up as they were, they would have been hard-pressed to finish in the top half of the Horizon League, much less the Big Ten.

Now, if everyone's relatively healthy next year and IU still fails to at least qualify for the CIT/CBI or NIT, then we have a problem.

[redsfanmia]

Only if either one of them possessed the ability to wave a magic wand to ensure that everyone remained healthy. As banged up as they were, they would have been hard-pressed to finish in the top half of the Horizon League, much less the Big Ten.

Now, if everyone's relatively healthy next year and IU still fails to at least qualify for the CIT/CBI or NIT, then we have a problem.

Were they injured when they layed an egg against Colorado and Northen Iowa? There are too many guys at IU that are not with the program and I lay that at the feet of Tom Crean. I am getting tired of injury excuses and how the program was destroyed was Sampson (which it was but its now been 3 years). I think that if the Hoosiers don't make a tournament next year then IU should start turning up the heat on Crean.

[Razor Shines]

Matt Painter met with Big Foot and The Loche Ness Monster today. He has until noon tomorrow to decide which he'll coach.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/03/matt-painter-update-3-fox59-in-indianapolis-reporting-that-painter-will-stay-at-purdue/

[Razor Shines]

Not sure where if anyone else will care about this but I found it hilarious and had to post it somewhere.

I was just listening to Sklarbro Country (Sklar Bros Pod Cast) from February and some how they got onto a Story about the Indiana Ice. And they were going on about how they can't name themselves after the surface they play on.

So they started giving names that they should change to and most of them were just dumb Indiana related stuff. Like The Indiana Flying Chairs, The Indiana Birds, The Indiana 500s...etc..

Then one of them said they should change their name to the Indiana Baileys...."after the drink that Damon Bailey used to drown himself in to forget about his horrific NBA career."

I love Damon Bailey but I find that hysterical.

[BRM]

Matt Painter met with Big Foot and The Loche Ness Monster today. He has until noon tomorrow to decide which he'll coach.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/03/matt-painter-update-3-fox59-in-indianapolis-reporting-that-painter-will-stay-at-purdue/ (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/03/matt-painter-update-3-fox59-in-indianapolis-reporting-that-painter-will-stay-at-purdue/)

Most recent update in that link says he's staying at Purdue.

[RichRed]

Not sure where if anyone else will care about this but I found it hilarious and had to post it somewhere.

I was just listening to Sklarbro Country (Sklar Bros Pod Cast) from February and some how they got onto a Story about the Indiana Ice. And they were going on about how they can't name themselves after the surface they play on.

So they started giving names that they should change to and most of them were just dumb Indiana related stuff. Like The Indiana Flying Chairs, The Indiana Birds, The Indiana 500s...etc..

Then one of them said they should change their name to the Indiana Baileys...."after the drink that Damon Bailey used to drown himself in to forget about his horrific NBA career."

I love Damon Bailey but I find that hysterical.

The Sklar Brothers are great. I love it when they fill in for Rome.

[Hoosier Red]

Most recent update in that link says he's staying at Purdue.

My new post at Crimsoncast.
Once you're a little bit gone, you're gone.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=1296

[Razor Shines]

I've liked what I've seen from Zeller so far tonight. He's put it on the floor a little and he passes really, really well. I think he's gonna do a great job of finding the shooters if he's doubled.

Clearly he needs to get bigger and work on his defense but I think we already knew that.

[Revering4Blue]

Kalvis (Indy)

Joe Lunardi listed Indiana as one of the Last Four In for the 2012 tourney. Is this expectation too high, or is Cody Zeller capable of winning in the Big Ten as a freshman?
Eamonn Brennan (2:25 PM)

I wouldn't put all the onus on Cody Zeller, because after all he'll still be a freshman. But yes, I think that's a realistic expectation. Zeller gives that team its first legitimate big man of the Crean era. Jordan Hulls had a crazy-efficient shooting season, Victor Oladipo looked very promising, and Maurice Creek should finally be healthy. The x-factor, to me, is Christian Watford. Dude's talented, but he drifts, and with his length he should be a much defender than he is. Indiana has a lot of work to do on the defensive end, but the talent is slowly but surely arriving. ]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/38054/ncaa-bb-w-brennan

[Scrap Irony]

IU's big problem next season might be the strength of the Big Ten. OSU should be a national title contender. Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Penn State, Illinois, and Wisconsin are all NCAA likely (or at least probable).

That's a lot of difficult games to go through for a team not used to winning.

[Hoosier Red]

IU's big problem next season might be the strength of the Big Ten. OSU should be a national title contender. Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Penn State, Illinois, and Wisconsin are all NCAA likely (or at least probable).

That's a lot of difficult games to go through for a team not used to winning.

I disagree. The Big Ten this year was tough. Especially in the 6-9 teams where a mediocre squad needs to make hey.

Outside of Iowa and Michigan, pretty much everyone is going to be down from this year.
But don't ask me, ask this guy. http://crimsoncast.com/2011/03/no-amount-of-hacking-will-keep-iu-from-2012-tournament/

On average, the rest of the conference teams are losing 40% of their offense to a departing senior class.
Purdue, Penn State and Illinois in particular are going to be in a pickle in my opinion. I'd say the same about Wisconsin (6 seniors/52% of offense) but they've seemed like they've done the same thing every year. I don't know how one school always has 6 seniors but they seem to.

[SportsNut75]

Are Purdue fans welcomed on here with all these Hoosier & Buckeye fans? lol

[Hoosier Red]

Are Purdue fans welcomed on here with all these Hoosier & Buckeye fans? lol

NO :p

[SportsNut75]

NO :p

To bad :duel:

[Razor Shines]

So does the fact that Crean signed that Abell kid today mean he thinks there is gonna be a transfer? Or is he just trying to do anything he can to make the '11-'12 team better?

[redsfanmia]

So does the fact that Crean signed that Abell kid today mean he thinks there is gonna be a transfer? Or is he just trying to do anything he can to make the '11-'12 team better?

Is a player who was released from a commitment to Bradley anyone to get excited over?

[Hoosier Red]

So does the fact that Crean signed that Abell kid today mean he thinks there is gonna be a transfer? Or is he just trying to do anything he can to make the '11-'12 team better?

He's been pretty steadfast in saying that he'll sign as many people as he is allowed. Players will transfer or get injured or go pro or leave the team some way.

He had room for another player for 2011-12, so he signed another player.

This player was apparantly looking at IU, Xavier, and Penn State. So it's not as if IU beat out tOSU for his services, but he was looking at better colleges then Bradley.

[Revering4Blue]

This player was apparantly looking at IU, Xavier, and Penn State. So it's not as if IU beat out tOSU for his services, but he was looking at better colleges then Bradley.

And Butler.

It has to count for something that I.U, even in a down period, can still beat out Butler for a recruit, especially a guard who stood to benefit from Shelvin Mack's expected NBA draft departure and Van Zant's graduation.

This reduces Daniel Moore to the role of human victory cigar, which is a good thing.

[Hoosier Red]

And Butler.

It has to count for something that I.U, even in a down period, can still beat out Butler for a recruit, especially a guard who stood to benefit from Shelvin Mack's expected NBA draft departure and Van Zant's graduation.

This reduces Daniel Moore to the role of human victory cigar, which is a good thing.

I don't know if I'd say Mack's expected departure. He's checking out the draft process but I'd be stunned if he actually left, but I agree with the overall point.
The fact that IU is dominating the state in recruiting when it's easily the 4th best team on the court is a good sign.

Every person they've recruited, I have said, "Well that means Daniel Moore won't play," I refuse to get sucked in until he's no longer in uniform. And even then.

By the way I poke fun at Tom Crean's tweet in this post. http://crimsoncast.com/?p=1402

[Revering4Blue]

Bobby Capobianco leaving IU men's basketball program.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110520/SPORTS0601/110520025/Bobby-Capobianco-leaving-IU-men-s-basketball-program?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

I wish him well, but honestly, this is no great loss.

Gary Harris, come on down!

[WMR]

Who doesn't love a little Spring Creaning...

Well, everyone besides Bobby C.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/rkwhzn.jpg


As of a few weeks ago, Capo had no problems with his playing time. He has since deleted his Twitter account so this is the only record of it. There are multiple instances where he put it in text that he couldn't wait for next year. Then, he deletes his Twitter account and some Press Release comes out, weeks after the season ends, that he is transferring due to unhappiness? Hrm.

[Hoosier Red]

Bobby Capobianco leaving IU men's basketball program.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110520/SPORTS0601/110520025/Bobby-Capobianco-leaving-IU-men-s-basketball-program?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

I wish him well, but honestly, this is no great loss.

Gary Harris, come on down!

Well, it's still no sure thing that Harris is coming. They just now have enough scholarships available to sign the 5 players in the class. If Harris committed, it would be an oversign and he'd have to wait until the next year to see if there was in fact a scholarship available.

[Hoosier Red]

Who doesn't love a little Spring Creaning...

Well, everyone besides Bobby C.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/rkwhzn.jpg

Hrm.

Tom Crean saw him on campus for the summer session and said, "Bobby, what are you doing here? I thought we talked about this. I thought you understood when you tweeted about the greatest year for IUBB yet."

In all seriousness, never a great thing when guys decide to take their talents elsewhere, but it's not the end of the world. Front line is still thin and this probably means Cody is going to have to play center more than we'd otherwise like.

[Hoosier Red]

Strange Strange News out of State College.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6580565

Ed DeChellis reportedly leaving Penn State for Navy.

We damn well better not lose to the Nittany Lions next year.

[Revering4Blue]

Even more surprising that--at least judging by the Penn State message board faithful --many Penn State fans are happy about this. As if they're easily going to be able to replace E Dch with someone who will be a HUGE upgrade.

Are they that delusional?

[Hoosier Red]

No doubt R4B. I was surprised that DeChellis was never really even on a rumored hot seat, but you can do a lot worse. And at Penn State they have.

[Hoosier Red]

I was wondering when an enterprising reporter was going to pick up and run with this story.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6587668

Even accepting the fact that stories like these are generally based more on innuendo than actual allegation, this one doesn't seem to have a lot of legs.

A lot of the suspicions seem to center around Drew Adams, the son of the AAU coach who has a lot of influence, was hired to an entry level job with no collegiate coaching experience. This seems to be the definition of an entry level job to me, but maybe I'm crazy.

[WMR]

I pointed this out months ago... glad to see I'm not the only master of the obvious out there. :D

"Doing it the right way" seems to be a constantly evolving definition.

[Hoosier Red]

I pointed this out months ago... glad to see I'm not the only master of the obvious out there. :D

"Doing it the right way" seems to be a constantly evolving definition.

Yeah we had the same discussion then.

Essentially, there is no other plausible reason why a fairly smart kid who loves basketball would ever get an entry level job as an administrative assistant were it not for the coach wanting to suck up to his father.

Essentially, there is no other plausible reason for a guy to devote his life to bringing kids from war torn countries other than to enrich himself through seeing the kids go to his alma mater.

Essentially, there is no other plausible reason that Tom Crean would be able to recruit kids who grew up in Indiana to go to IU were it not for the insidious forces at work in the AAU scene.

Not saying that it's not possible that IU could have smudged a detail or two, but I'd like a little more meat on the bones.

[WMR]

But a five-month ESPN.com investigation into the Bloomington, Ind.-based African Hoop Opportunities Providing an Education (A-HOPE) Foundation, which claims the South American-born Perea as a foundation beneficiary, has found circumstances outside of the Baylor issue that very well might impact his initial NCAA eligibility at Indiana. Treatment afforded him by A-HOPE and its president, Mark Adams, including roundtrip airline tickets to Colombia, appears to put Perea in violation of NCAA preferential treatment and extra benefits bylaws (12.1.2.1.6).

Also at issue are gifts Perea has received from A-HOPE and Adams, whose son served on the IU basketball staff from September 2009 until this month. Perea is a member of an AAU team -- Indiana Elite -- which Adams coaches and whose best players have in the last year begun committing verbally to IU in bunches. The NCAA declined to comment specifically on Perea, but a spokesperson said that generally, "benefits from the prospects' coach other than basic living expenses are considered against NCAA rules."

[Hoosier Red]

There you go, it's the smoking gun. A plane ride home to his parents and a used laptop. If only the other coaches were willing to cheat as much as Mark Adams in order to bring the top talent to their respective favorite schools.

I'm frankly shocked and surprised WMR that you would endorse such an article despite it's clear attack on a child's character.

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN WMR!?!?! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!?!?

[Hoosier Red]

Some interesting responses from @DustinDopirak on twitter.

Apparantly Adams says he had cleared the trip home, and the laptop with NCAA and IU's compliance office. He said that he provides school supplies for all the students in A Hope's program.

It's worth noting that if Mark Adams was using the A Hope program to recruit for IU, he did a pretty poor job of it,
Previous players,

Southern Utah
Michigan State
UNLV
UCLA
University of New Orleans (2)
University of Hartford
Cincinnati State JUCO
Hillboro CC
Western Michigan
University of Tennessee
Delaware State

[WMR]

I don't really care about any of this, it's just funny seeing IU fans scrambling after all those years spent looking down their noses at everyone else. ;)

[Hoosier Red]

I don't really care about any of this, it's just funny seeing IU fans scrambling after all those years spent looking down their noses at everyone else. ;)

Now, to be fair. I haven't done anything but look up at other teams for the last 3 years. In all honesty, I can appreciate the author's intentions with the article that something doesn't smell right, but it just seems a little light on accusations of actual rule breaking.

When we've had these friendly discussions regarding Coach Cal/UK players, there were actual allegations of pretty serious rules being broken whether it was Enes Kanter being paid by his club team more than the allowed amount for amateurs, or Eric Bledsoe allegedly having had a few grades moved around, or Derek Rose allegedly having someone take his SAT for him.

Now the facts in those cases were all certainly in dispute. But what was reported was always along the lines of; one player is saying this, the university is saying that.

In this case, it seems like all the facts are known, and few if any are actual rules are shown to be broken. Thats why I think it's a lesser story.

[WMR]

Truly amazed you would consider it a "lesser story." :laugh: It's only a lesser story because it's Indiana and not Kentucky.

[5TimeWSChamps]

I don't really care about any of this, it's just funny seeing IU fans scrambling after all those years spent looking down their noses at everyone else. ;)

No kidding, no offense to Hoosier fans here, but the ones I deal with have such a sanctimonious BS attitude about their program compared to everyone else that it makes me sick.

I love seeing them suck, and I'm going to love seeing Cody Zeller get put on a poster by Anthony Davis next year

[WMR]

No kidding, no offense to Hoosier fans here, but the ones I deal with have such a sanctimonious BS attitude about their program compared to everyone else that it makes me sick.

I love seeing them suck, and I'm going to love seeing Cody Zeller get put on a poster by Anthony Davis next year

I'm actually hoping Crean can get them at least respectable again because otherwise we might need to explore ending the series... they have become a real drain on our RPI. I'm guessing this year's IU schedule will be another laugher to hopefully coax a 20 win campaign.

[5TimeWSChamps]

I'm actually hoping Crean can get them at least respectable again because otherwise we might need to explore ending the series... they have become a real drain on our RPI. I'm guessing this year's IU schedule will be another laugher to hopefully coax a 20 win campaign.

Good news for them is that Tubby's lost everyone at Minnesota, so they may be able to finish 10th in the BIG 11+1 next year

[Playadlc]

But a five-month ESPN.com investigation into the Bloomington, Ind.-based African Hoop Opportunities Providing an Education (A-HOPE) Foundation, which claims the South American-born Perea as a foundation beneficiary, has found circumstances outside of the Baylor issue that very well might impact his initial NCAA eligibility at Indiana. Treatment afforded him by A-HOPE and its president, Mark Adams, including roundtrip airline tickets to Colombia, appears to put Perea in violation of NCAA preferential treatment and extra benefits bylaws (12.1.2.1.6).

Also at issue are gifts Perea has received from A-HOPE and Adams, whose son served on the IU basketball staff from September 2009 until this month. Perea is a member of an AAU team -- Indiana Elite -- which Adams coaches and whose best players have in the last year begun committing verbally to IU in bunches. The NCAA declined to comment specifically on Perea, but a spokesperson said that generally, "benefits from the prospects' coach other than basic living expenses are considered against NCAA rules."

IU, Mark Adams, and the NCAA have already met on this subject and flights back home, the shared laptop, and clothing were already oked...

[Razor Shines]

I pointed this out months ago... glad to see I'm not the only master of the obvious out there.
Thank God Mike Fish got all your calls and emails.




I don't really care about any of this, it's just funny seeing IU fans scrambling after all those years spent looking down their noses at everyone else. ;)

Who is scrambling? And IU fans on here haven't done any looking down there noses at anyone. You tried this crap when you brought it up a few months ago.

[WMR]

Thank God Mike Fish got all your calls and emails.





Who is scrambling? And IU fans on here haven't done any looking down there noses at anyone. You tried this crap when you brought it up a few months ago.

Calling Mike Fish? Nah I was busy calling and emailing Coach K asking if he ever heard back from the NCAA on that ole Myron Piggy deal. ;)

I never said ALL. Don't make the comment a blanket statement when it wasn't one. If you think that attitude wasn't present by some on this board before IU went on probation, you're sorely mistaken.

[WVRed]

Should also mention that DeAndre Liggins was involved in this. Apparently the nine game "suspension" last year by Cal was more of a NCAA suspension.

[Razor Shines]

Calling Mike Fish? Nah I was busy calling and emailing Coach K asking if he ever heard back from the NCAA on that ole Myron Piggy deal. ;)

.

Mike Krzyzewski doesn't hear back from the NCAA, the NCAA hears from him. He told them not to worry about the Myron Piggy situation. They offered to allow him to annex a championship for his trouble.

[WMR]

Mike Krzyzewski doesn't hear back from the NCAA, the NCAA hears from him.

The sad thing is that this is 100% correct.

[redsfanmia]

Mike Krzyzewski doesn't hear back from the NCAA, the NCAA hears from him. He told them not to worry about the Myron Piggy situation. They offered to allow him to annex a championship for his trouble.

Is that kinda of a new version of what Tark the Shark always said about UCLA when Wooden was there? Tark always said something like the NCAA is so mad at UCLA for cheating they are putting Long Beach St on probation.

[redsfanmia]

Sounds like everything here is above board, after the Sampson era I hope and pray nothing too fishy is happening in B-Town.

[Revering4Blue]

Calbert Cheaney to join Indiana staff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6675971

[Playadlc]

Calbert Cheaney to join Indiana staff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6675971

Great hire. It will be so nice to see him involved again.

[Playadlc]

Anyone been following the Gunner Kiel recruiting battle?

Kyle Neddenriep Tweets on Kiel:

"Talked to Columbus East quarterback Gunner Kiel this morning. Would like to have a decision made this month. Indiana very much in the mix."

This is the #1 rated QB in the country according to Rivals. From everything I have read it seems to be down to Indiana, Alabama, Oklahoma and Missouri.

Man, what a get this would be for IU.

[redsfanmia]

That would be great if Indiana could get Kiel. Do you think he is the next Earl Haniford?

[Playadlc]

That would be great if Indiana could get Kiel. Do you think he is the next Earl Haniford?

Ha! My goodness let's hope not. What a disappointment he was.

IU got three solid commits yesterday. Mike Cotton (LB who chose IU over Kansas St.), Jordan Wallace (LB who chose IU over Illinois, Pitt. and Cinci.) and Kevin Davis (WR who chose IU over Arkansas and Purdue.)

Wilson is doing a great job so far.

[Razor Shines]

Reading some tweets from Crean. He said that Zeller is up over 225. Still thin but that's a nice start.

Also read that LSU transfer Garrett Green will visit IU. He'd be a nice pick up just to have some extra size.

[Playadlc]

Gunner Kiel has committed to IU.

Probably the biggest football recruit since AT.

What a haul by Kevin Wilson.

[Hoosier Red]

Gunner Kiel has committed to IU.

Probably the biggest football recruit since AT.

What a haul by Kevin Wilson.

Fantabulous.

[BillDoran]

Fantabulous.

As a future grad student in Bloomington :party:

A lot to get excited about with recent basketball and football recruiting. Makes me want to buy some candy-striped warm-up pants.

[redsfanmia]

Great news!!!!

[Puffy]

Gunner Kiel has committed to IU.

Probably the biggest football recruit since AT.

What a haul by Kevin Wilson.

How is his jump shot ;)

[Playadlc]

http://www.foxsportsradio.com/pages/bio_media/zakkandjack.html

Anyone here this interview? Wow! Zack and Jack (Trudeau) were making some jokes about IU football before Wilson got on and Wilson was simply not having it. In a nutshell, Wilson made the point, “It’s not like climbing Mount Everest. I just don’t like guys cracking jokes about our program.”

After they hung up on Coach Wilson, they just blasted him. Jack then went on to say "I'm gonna see a lot of IU people later today and I'm gonna tell each and every one of them how bad that interview was" and "when I see Ron Zook I'm gonna tell him to run up the score on Indiana this year".
About a half hour later they're still talking about him and Jack said "there are some football coaches out there who have no business being a Head Coach, and Kevin Wilson is one of them"

I love Kevin Wilson. You disrespect his team in his presence, he will NOT ignore it.

[Hoosier Red]

http://www.foxsportsradio.com/pages/bio_media/zakkandjack.html

Anyone here this interview? Wow! Zack and Jack (Trudeau) were making some jokes about IU football before Wilson got on and Wilson was simply not having it. In a nutshell, Wilson made the point, “It’s not like climbing Mount Everest. I just don’t like guys cracking jokes about our program.”

After they hung up on Coach Wilson, they just blasted him. Jack then went on to say "I'm gonna see a lot of IU people later today and I'm gonna tell each and every one of them how bad that interview was" and "when I see Ron Zook I'm gonna tell him to run up the score on Indiana this year".
About a half hour later they're still talking about him and Jack said "there are some football coaches out there who have no business being a Head Coach, and Kevin Wilson is one of them"

I love Kevin Wilson. You disrespect his team in his presence, he will NOT ignore it.

Oh no, don't tell Illinois to run the score up on us.
I love it. Sure he took umbrage when none was really intended, but I like that he's a little bit over sensitive.

I'm tired of IU football history being measured by our close losses. Those close losses are only positives when compared to the absolute tail kickings which have been distributed on a regular basis.

Kevin Wilson just essentially stated that this is not a team that would give up 83 points to Wisconsin. Which is a start.

[George Anderson]

I think Kevin Wilson overreacted. I am not a fan of Trudeau but he and Zac were simply making fun of IU footballs past which lets face it is lousy. Nothing they said before the interview started was an attack on Coach Wilson and the current state of IU football.

Wilson just needs to lighten up and realize he is the HC of the Chicago Cubs of college football. Start winning and you will earn respect.

[Hoosier Red]

I think Kevin Wilson overreacted. I am not a fan of Trudeau but he and Zac were simply making fun of IU footballs past which lets face it is lousy. Nothing they said before the interview started was an attack on Coach Wilson and the current state of IU football.

Wilson just needs to lighten up and realize he is the HC of the Chicago Cubs of college football. Start winning and you will earn respect.

He probably did, but I'd rather err on the side of defending the program.
He didn't really say anything too obnoxious in response, simply that he remembered putting up 61 on Illinois. The problem was at the point the hosts didn't let it go.

In the end it worked out best for everyone involved. Zack and Jack get some attention, Kevin Wilson upgrades himself in the eyes of most Hoosier fans, and the team and fan base get to embrace a little chip on the shoulder. Nothing wrong with that.

The only way it works out better from here is if IU beats Illinois, and Trudeau lets Wilson back on to rub it in a little bit.

[fearofpopvol1]

The problem isn't that IU's football team is historically bad, it's that IU's basketball team has largely been irrelevant for the last 15+ years. If the basketball program was thriving, very few would care about how the football team performs.

If IU is going to continue having mediocre basketball teams, at least improve the football team.

[Hoosier Red]

I have my blog post for the first game posted here.

http://crimsoncast.com/?p=1820

[Hoosier Red]

My week 2 pre game meal is posted at Crimsoncast.

http://crimsoncast.com/2011/09/pre-game-meal-fanatical-delusions-edition/

[Hoosier Red]

Free t-shirts available with my most recent Crimsoncast post.

http://bit.ly/pmUlJP

[WMR]

Looks like Crean committed an NCAA violation in the Gary Harris recruitment.

[Hoosier Red]

Looks like Crean committed an NCAA violation in the Gary Harris recruitment.

Yeah a secondary one that probably looks worse than it was in reality. At least that's what I'm getting from every person I've read. More stupidity than cheating, though I'd prefer there were neither.

In terms of Harris' recruitment, I don't know if this tells us anything, as Harris is still expected at Hoosier Hysteria on Saturday. An optimistic take is that IU realized this was a violation and did their best to get it out ahead of time, so that if Harris commits, the story wouldn't break afterward.

A particularly jaded view would be that it behooves a school to commit-and report- a small number of secondary violations. Just enough to let people know that you're being tough, but not enough that anyone at the NCAA feels the need to look deeper into things.

[BRM]

Gunner Kiel decommits from IU.

http://247sports.com/Article/Kiel-is-back-on-the-market-45282?sct=hp_t2_a10

[Orenda]

http://http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/84/indiana-hoosiers

So what do the loyal hoosier fans think of the hoops schedule? My college basketball knowledge has waned, but it looks to me like Tom Crean may have taken one out of the Mick Cronin bag of tricks in terms of nonconference schedule. Of course they still play tough non-conference teams, it just appeared lighter than usual this year. How did the North Carolina Central Eagles make it in just before the end of the b10 regular season?

The Stetson Hatters may be my new favorite team btw.

[Boston Red]

IU shouldn't play anyone with a pulse (other than UK) in the non-conference until they get the program back on its feet.

[Hoosier Red]

http://http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/84/indiana-hoosiers

So what do the loyal hoosier fans think of the hoops schedule? My college basketball knowledge has waned, but it looks to me like Tom Crean may have taken one out of the Mick Cronin bag of tricks in terms of nonconference schedule. Of course they still play tough non-conference teams, it just appeared lighter than usual this year. How did the North Carolina Central Eagles make it in just before the end of the b10 regular season?

The Stetson Hatters may be my new favorite team btw.

It's definitely tougher this year. In addition to UK, the Hoosiers play Butler and ND. There's always a number of easy teams, but if IU wins 19 or 20 games they should make the tournament.

[Razor Shines]

I was pretty impressed with the game last night. Will Sheehey has spent a tremendous amount of time working on his jumper. His timing looks soooo much better than it did last year. He's going to have a big year.

[gilpdawg]

I was pretty impressed with the game last night. Will Sheehey has spent a tremendous amount of time working on his jumper. His timing looks soooo much better than it did last year. He's going to have a big year.

All the sophomores looked much improved over last year. I do think Will is going to be all-big ten caliber by his senior year.

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[WMR]

So who is ready to lay some bets down on the Kentucky game?

[Hoosier Red]

I don't think they'll beat Kentucky but I expect them to hang just like last year.

[gilpdawg]

They look like a team that will struggle at times, but other times will shoot the lights out and pull some upsets. If everything goes well they could potentially make the dance but realistically they are probably a NIT team. I'll take that considering where we were 4 years ago.

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[Playadlc]

We look incredible right now @Evansville.

51-27 at the half.

[Hoosier Red]

We look incredible right now @Evansville.

51-27 at the half.

Solid start to the season. Three games they quite honestly should win, but they've been talking care of business and not letting an inferior team linger.

The fact that they pole axed two teams that Butler struggled mightily with(losing one) tells me more about where Butler is right now than where IU is, but I've really got no complaints.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Got my tix to the UK-IU game. Sect DD, Row 3

[fearofpopvol1]

I like where things are at too and where IU is headed. I think it's taken far longer than we had thought/hoped...but it's getting there.

[WMR]

IU fans have got to be absolutely ecstatic over Zeller. He may end up being the best of his brothers.

[Razor Shines]

I didn't know where to put this but in regards to the IU - Mich St. football disaster someone tweeted.

"IU tried to throw in the white towel but Mich St. intercepted it and returned it for a TD."

[BRM]

IU fans have got to be absolutely ecstatic over Zeller. He may end up being the best of his brothers.

I agree. I told my dad that during the Savannah St game. I've been very impressed with Zeller.

[Razor Shines]

IU fans have got to be absolutely ecstatic over Zeller. He may end up being the best of his brothers.

I don't think there is any doubt he'll be the best Zeller. I said last year that we should expect from Cody a Freshman season similar to Tyler's Jr. season. Luke was just a huge disappointment.

[Razor Shines]

Just finally had time to watch the IU - Butler game last night. I really enjoyed how hard each side played.

I can't say enough about how impressed I am with the work Will Sheehey has put in with his jump shot. I said last year that I knew he'd get it but I didn't think there would be this much improvement this quickly. His timing looks great when he's shooting from long range.


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[Hoosier Red]

Just finally had time to watch the IU - Butler game last night. I really enjoyed how hard each side played.

I can't say enough about how impressed I am with the work Will Sheehey has put in with his jump shot. I said last year that I knew he'd get it but I didn't think there would be this much improvement this quickly. His timing looks great when he's shooting from long range.


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No doubt, the improvement from Sheehey and Oladipo, along with role players like Elston and Roth has opened alot of options for Crean. Imagine two years ago had VJIII and Watford both had an off night on the same night, IU would have lost by 30.

[Hoosier Red]

Blatant self promotion, my most recent Pre-Game Meal post is up.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=2669

[fearofpopvol1]

If IU can win the next 2, they have to be considered for votes. If they beat Kentucky on top of that, they will positively be in the Top 25. Fingers crossed!

[SunDeck]

Blatant self promotion, my most recent Pre-Game Meal post is up.
http://crimsoncast.com/?p=2669


Prediction: NC State will never call itself THE North Carolina State University

There's a great bumper sticker I saw when I worked at NC State: "Honk if you're a Tarheel. Just moo if y'all fum State".

Of course, it's a tremendous misconception among the snobs at "Carolina", just as many Hoosiers (and I'm an IU alum) don't have a clue about what really goes on at Purdue. Engineering and Applied Sciences programs are tremendous engines for economic and industrial growth...unlike, say, Comparative Literature. :D

Of course, basketball is another matter entirely- it's hard to argue with the success of UNC.

[Hoosier Red]

There's a great bumper sticker I saw when I worked at NC State: "Honk if you're a Tarheel. Just moo if y'all fum State".

Of course, it's a tremendous misconception among the snobs at "Carolina", just as many Hoosiers (and I'm an IU alum) don't have a clue about what really goes on at Purdue. Engineering and Applied Sciences programs are tremendous engines for economic and industrial growth...unlike, say, Comparative Literature. :D

Of course, basketball is another matter entirely- it's hard to argue with the success of UNC.

There was a picture I found on the web of a pillow saying, "It's hard to be humble when you're from NC State." I wanted to put this in the post, but couldn't get it to come in correctly.

And I disagree, I know exactly what goes on at Indiana A&T. :)

[SunDeck]

And I disagree, I know exactly what goes on at Indiana A&T. :)

LOL

[Razor Shines]

Most important game of Creans IU coaching career to date.


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[SunDeck]

This team is much improved; last year they would have folded at the 8:00 mark, but instead they made a very impressive run to come back and close things out.

[Razor Shines]

Ok for those who doubted Crean's coaching ability: Join us. You no longer have reason to worry.

Great win. Cody Zeller is going to be better this year than I thought. I didn't expect a big game out of him tonight.

I was so happy that Olidipo punched that one hard on the break away at the end of the game rather than pull it out and run clock. I ran to the garage and did the same dunk on my son's mini goal right after that and then I told the vacuum that it can't guard me.


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[BRM]

I was so happy that Olidipo punched that one hard on the break away at the end of the game rather than pull it out and run clock. I ran to the garage and did the same dunk on my son's mini goal right after that and then I told the vacuum that it can't guard me.


:laugh:

[Razor Shines]

Nice win today. Maybe we will get a few votes.

[Scrap Irony]

They deserve some. IU has a good team.

[redsfanmia]

I hope they can hang with KU Saturday.

[cumberlandreds]

I hope they can hang with KU Saturday.

You mean UK? :)

I expect a good game from IU. This will be the first true road for Kentucky and we will see how they handle that. BTW it's good to see IU climbing back on the map. College basketball can always use a program with good tradition like IU.

[Hoosier Red]

You mean UK? :)

I expect a good game from IU. This will be the first true road for Kentucky and we will see how they handle that. BTW it's good to see IU climbing back on the map. College basketball can always use a program with good tradition like IU.

We're not there yet. We'll be there when it's no longer a moral victory to hang with UK. Especially when we're playing at home. Sadly, I think it will be a moral victory or bust on Saturday.

[Razor Shines]

23 votes in the coaches poll. 4 in the ap poll.


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[Scrap Irony]

I think IU might beat Kentucky Saturday.

[Hoosier Red]

It has sure been fun having a game that everyone is getting this amped up for. Reading the tweets from people warning not to sell tix to people from a Ky zip code, to the one's from Coach Cal instructing his fans how to get past such "tight" security.

From a pure matchup standpoint, there aren't a lot of places I feel comfortable saying the Hoosiers are at an advantage.
One thing I think we'll have to see is if Cody Zeller truly has a good 10-15 foot range. If he can draw Davis away from the basket, it will open things up for guys like Watford.

I was in the Assembly Hall the only time IU has defeated a Number 1 team and it was an experience I'll never forget.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TgYXNh8HGOY

[cumberlandreds]

I think IU might beat Kentucky Saturday.

If IU can hit a crazy percentage from the threes and Zeller stays out of foul trouble they have a real shot. But if they don't do both of those things they probably won't win.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Im just glad this UK fan got his tix early :)

[fearofpopvol1]

I'm really excited for this game. I can't say I think IU will win, but I think they can be competitive and who knows? Upsets can and do happen.

[Razor Shines]

If IU were able to pull out an upset Saturday, I'd have to get pretty creative for WMR's avatar.


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[redsfanmia]

I'm pretty sure IU wont win but I think they can win which I havent thought in a few years.

[Playadlc]

I'm really excited for this game. I can't say I think IU will win, but I think they can be competitive and who knows? Upsets can and do happen.

Pomeroy gives IU a 31% chance of beating Kentucky. That's a 1 in 3 chance.

I won't be shocked by an Indiana win.

[fearofpopvol1]

INCREDIBLE!!!

[Hoosier Red]

Holy mother bleepity bleep.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Jesus Wept.


WOW I love this team.

[WVRed]

Congrats to IU on a major win. Had Watford not hit the game winner that might have been an epic chokejob by IU though. UK played way more in control in the last three minutes than they did the rest of the game.

One thing is for sure though, Kentucky was a much different team in the game when Davis was out with foul trouble. Once he came back in, the bleeding stopped. When he went back out, IU went on a run and extended the lead.

I'm actually kinda happy with the loss. UK has some things they need to work on moving forward (3 pt defense and free throws being the most critical) and I look for teams to test the former the rest of the season. Still wonder where Terrence Jones head was at during the game. He seemed absolutely lost.

Again, congrats on the win. I just hope the series isn't dropped before a rematch at Rupp. :)

[Joseph]

Congrats Hoosier fans. Love to see a traditional powerhouse regain some luster.

[SunDeck]

So, I got invited to a party in Bloomington- some connection through our kids at school. Turns out, the party was hosted by a leading liberal in town...so of course, no cable and no way to watch the game. ;)
Luckily, at least they had a radio and once I unhooked their stupid ipod from the thing we listened to Don Fischer's play by play on local radio. I have to say I don't feel like I missed a thing. Hands down, one of the best PBP guys in the business. Don't know if anyone here has had the pleasure, but he's an absolute gem.

[Captain Hook]

Congrats Hoosier fans. Love to see a traditional powerhouse regain some luster.

x2

The Buckeyes really need a rival in Big 10 hoops.

[Razor Shines]

I hate that fans are still allowed to rush the court.

I still can't believe they pulled it out. I don't think it would have been a choke job if they lost. Kentucky is a super talented team capable of scoring a ton of points in a short amount of time. An 11 point lead with 7 or 8 mins to play is not safe against UK, I don't care who is playing them.


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[Todd Gack]

So, I got invited to a party in Bloomington- some connection through our kids at school. Turns out, the party was hosted by a leading liberal in town...so of course, no cable and no way to watch the game. ;)
Luckily, at least they had a radio and once I unhooked their stupid ipod from the thing we listened to Don Fischer's play by play on local radio. I have to say I don't feel like I missed a thing. Hands down, one of the best PBP guys in the business. Don't know if anyone here has had the pleasure, but he's an absolute gem.

http://www.insidethehall.com/

[Hoosier Red]

Had Watford not hit the game winner that might have been an epic chokejob by IU though. UK played way more in control in the last three minutes than they did the rest of the game.



I think the term choke is used a little bit too often. The game is 40 minutes long and there are peaks and valleys for both teams throughout. Because IU had a 10 point lead after their peak and UK's valley, we shouldn't expect that at that time it was going to continue to cruise.

There were things I wished they had done - like go after a guy with 4 fouls, foul Kentucky on the way to the hoop a couple of times - I don't think the team played poorly.

Razor,
Are you against IU rushing the court because we should be above such things, or any fans rushing the court? In either case I love it.

[SunDeck]

http://www.insidethehall.com/

Thanks- I really needed a little Hoosier Hysteria fix.

[Razor Shines]

Im against anyone rushing the court ever. It doesn't even take anything malicious for someone's season to be over. An uncoordinated, adrenaline pumped fan could easily trip and take someone's knee out.

Outside of that if there was a time to rush a court that was it.


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[fearofpopvol1]

Indiana's Christian Watford Game Winning 3 Over Kentucky - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPXImXAMStc&feature=share)

[Razor Shines]

#18 in the AP, #20 in the coaches poll. Expectations for this season have been raised. I would have been satisfied with an NIT berth coming into this season, but as I said a few weeks ago Zeller is better than I expected.

It'll be incredibly difficult to avoid a let down this week. We'll see what Crean is really capable of if they come out sharp this week.


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[traderumor]

Im against anyone rushing the court ever. It doesn't even take anything malicious for someone's season to be over. An uncoordinated, adrenaline pumped fan could easily trip and take someone's knee out.

Outside of that if there was a time to rush a court that was it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJust a long list of things that has gotten out of hand because of the attention generated from non-stop highlight reel. It needs fixed before the inevitable trampling deaths occur.

[fearofpopvol1]

I posted this in the UK thread too...

Brilliant Kentucky Fan- SportsCenter Anchor Audition Tape - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QUao4mXPew&feature=related)

[Razor Shines]

Well they were flat, except for Zeller, but it's good to get a win even when they shoot poorly and play sloppy.


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[Hoosier Red]

Well they were flat, except for Zeller, but it's good to get a win even when they shoot poorly and play sloppy.


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They need to have a little more to the offense when it comes from set plays. All season they've been able to do enough defensively to cause turnovers, but Notre Dame only turned it over 12 times whereas Indiana had been averaging about 19 defensive turnovers prior to Saturday. Indiana surprisingly only turned it over 11 times, it felt more like 20.

But in any event, Purdue and Wisconsin in particular are two teams who are very good at not turning the ball over. I believe Wisconsin leads the nation so IU will need to develop a little bit more offensive rhythm in the half court.

Of course that's probably true of just about every team.

[fearofpopvol1]

IU moved up 1 spot in the AP top 25.

[Hoosier Red]

I wrote a post discussing whether IU's schedule was really demonstrably weaker than the rest of the conference.
http://crimsoncast.com/2011/12/shut-up-about-the-schedule/

[thatcoolguy_22]

I guess I'll be the first to post here then... Great win. The tiny line-up with Zeller out of the game was murderous on defense. Quick rotations, jumping in/out of passing lanes, and pressuring every shot. Zeller fouling out was disheartening but him out of the middle opened the floor more for the slashers. IU is exciting (and headache causing at times) to watch again.

Great win!

[johngalt]

This was definitely a big win. When you consider how much time Zeller missed from foul trouble and being without Sheehey, it was huge to pick up a win here. Looking back, you have to be encouraged so much by the UK and OSU wins since they didn't even play their best basketball and still picked up victories. At home, yes, but still a tough combo to pull off.

Of course, I'm already sick of hearing Doug Gottlieb's excuses on ESPN. Sure, IU benefited from Sullinger being out most of the first half with foul trouble, but what about the second half? He clearly benefited from some calls and non-calls and IU had to play some extended time without Zeller. Also, all those foul calls kept IU from really pushing the tempo like they wanted to.

[Brutus]

This was definitely a big win. When you consider how much time Zeller missed from foul trouble and being without Sheehey, it was huge to pick up a win here. Looking back, you have to be encouraged so much by the UK and OSU wins since they didn't even play their best basketball and still picked up victories. At home, yes, but still a tough combo to pull off.

Of course, I'm already sick of hearing Doug Gottlieb's excuses on ESPN. Sure, IU benefited from Sullinger being out most of the first half with foul trouble, but what about the second half? He clearly benefited from some calls and non-calls and IU had to play some extended time without Zeller. Also, all those foul calls kept IU from really pushing the tempo like they wanted to.

Starting with the 12-minute mark of the first half through the next 3-4 minutes, Ohio State literally lost not just Sullinger, but Sullinger, Thomas, Buford and Smith -- four starters -- to foul trouble. Yeah Indiana had Zeller pick up two fouls in the second half, but I'd take Indiana's situation at home in a millisecond before what Ohio State had to overcome.

The first half was terribly lopsided officiating. The second foul on Sullinger was brutal in three ways: the defender wasn't set, he was inside the circle and Sullinger had already long left his feet and he's got to be allowed to come down. The Buford non-shoooting foul was equally perplexing.

Point is, Indiana fans have no right to cite officiating in this. Ohio State was up by 10 points and looking like an easy win for them until the fouls started coming en masse.

All that said, the second half was dead even in foul calls. It was terrible officiating on both sides where the game had very little flow until the last 5-6 minutes. Indiana lost Zeller, but Ohio State had most of their starters being saddled with fouls and it clearly cost them the aggressive defense they typically play. Where I give Indiana full credit, though, is that I thought they took better advantage of how the game was being played and better exploited the match-ups and officiating. Ohio State went at Zeller, but beyond that, I don't think they put IU's perimeter defenders in a position to pick up the ticky-tack fouls that were being called.

It's a great win for Indiana. They outplayed Ohio State late in the game when the flow picked up. I just think most neutral observers would gladly have Indiana's circumstances that game than what OSU was facing.

[johngalt]

The first half was terribly lopsided officiating. The second foul on Sullinger was brutal in three ways: the defender wasn't set, he was inside the circle and Sullinger had already long left his feet and he's got to be allowed to come down. The Buford non-shoooting foul was equally perplexing.

Sullinger's 2nd foul was a horrendous call, no question. That's the kind of call officials seem to make all the time now and I can't stand it. Because officials make those calls, teams make taking charges part of playing defense when that's not the intent of the rule. "Drawing" a charge isn't playing good defense in my book. It's just taking a shortcut. But yeah, I wasn't a fan of that one either.


Point is, Indiana fans have no right to cite officiating in this. Ohio State was up by 10 points and looking like an easy win for them until the fouls started coming en masse.

OSU was in control early, yes, but you can't say it was looking like an easy win that early in the game. Lots of teams have streaks. At 19-9, there's still a ton of basketball left to play.

As I said above, the bigger point is that while OSU did have a burden with guys in foul trouble, I think the choppiness of the game played more in their favor than Indiana's. When the pace became more frenetic at the end of the first half and at times in the second half, Indiana had the clear advantage. Oladipo was able to rattle Craft and IU was forcing Ohio State into some mistakes and bad shots. That's why I think the fouls slowing the pace of the game at times helped the Buckeyes out in some ways.

[Brutus]

Sullinger's 2nd foul was a horrendous call, no question. That's the kind of call officials seem to make all the time now and I can't stand it. Because officials make those calls, teams make taking charges part of playing defense when that's not the intent of the rule. "Drawing" a charge isn't playing good defense in my book. It's just taking a shortcut. But yeah, I wasn't a fan of that one either.



OSU was in control early, yes, but you can't say it was looking like an easy win that early in the game. Lots of teams have streaks. At 19-9, there's still a ton of basketball left to play.

As I said above, the bigger point is that while OSU did have a burden with guys in foul trouble, I think the choppiness of the game played more in their favor than Indiana's. When the pace became more frenetic at the end of the first half and at times in the second half, Indiana had the clear advantage. Oladipo was able to rattle Craft and IU was forcing Ohio State into some mistakes and bad shots. That's why I think the fouls slowing the pace of the game at times helped the Buckeyes out in some ways.

Yeah make no mistake, I am not trying to predict how the game would have gone because as you said... lots of time still left. I just meant that there was a direct correlation from the score, when Indiana made its run and which players were on the floor for Ohio State.

As to your point about the pace, while that little stretch did rattle Ohio State, Craft was playing with the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th players on Ohio State's bench at that given time. When Ohio State's starters are in there, they probably would have been glad for any team to try that pace on them. Florida tried it each of the last two years and it didn't work out for them. In fact, Billy Donovan didn't press as much this year because of how well Craft broke their fullcourt pressure last season in Gainesville.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that those plays by Oladipo gave Indiana a lot of momentum, but with a full half at that pace with Ohio State's starters on the floor, I don't think Indiana would have liked the result. I really honestly believe they were better off with how it worked out. In that kind of a game where so many things were being called, Ohio State's usual physical defense got pretty soft and Indiana did a far better job exploiting it than OSU did with IU. Crean pushed all the right buttons down the stretch looking for an edge with matchups.

[Playadlc]

Class from Sullinger...

From his twitter:

"Give credit when credit is due. IU basketball is back everybody.... Tough basketball team."

[gilpdawg]

Starting with the 12-minute mark of the first half through the next 3-4 minutes, Ohio State literally lost not just Sullinger, but Sullinger, Thomas, Buford and Smith -- four starters -- to foul trouble. Yeah Indiana had Zeller pick up two fouls in the second half, but I'd take Indiana's situation at home in a millisecond before what Ohio State had to overcome.

The first half was terribly lopsided officiating. The second foul on Sullinger was brutal in three ways: the defender wasn't set, he was inside the circle and Sullinger had already long left his feet and he's got to be allowed to come down. The Buford non-shoooting foul was equally perplexing.

Point is, Indiana fans have no right to cite officiating in this. Ohio State was up by 10 points and looking like an easy win for them until the fouls started coming en masse.

All that said, the second half was dead even in foul calls. It was terrible officiating on both sides where the game had very little flow until the last 5-6 minutes. Indiana lost Zeller, but Ohio State had most of their starters being saddled with fouls and it clearly cost them the aggressive defense they typically play. Where I give Indiana full credit, though, is that I thought they took better advantage of how the game was being played and better exploited the match-ups and officiating. Ohio State went at Zeller, but beyond that, I don't think they put IU's perimeter defenders in a position to pick up the ticky-tack fouls that were being called.

It's a great win for Indiana. They outplayed Ohio State late in the game when the flow picked up. I just think most neutral observers would gladly have Indiana's circumstances that game than what OSU was facing.
It was a horrendously officiated game. Way too many little ticky tack touch fouls getting called. Refs needed to just let both teams play. And the foul that fouled Z out was horrible. Dude was straight up and down and Sully initiated the contact. Should have been a no call, but other than that I can't think of any individual calls that were bad, but the tone the officials set ruined the flow of the game for both squads.

We are legit. Indiana basketball is back. And it feels awesome. Are we a national championship contender? Most likely no, but Sweet 16? That's very doable, and I'll take that after these past few years. At the start of the season I'd have been happy with making the NIT. With Wisconsin looking somewhat like a fraud, we may be the 3rd best team in the Big Ten. Depends on if that Iowa loss was a fluke. Seriously, Wisky lost to Iowa? At HOME? They NEVER lose at home!

[Hoosier Red]

I wouldn't get too excited about Wisconsins downfall just yet. Their offense is very much dependent on hitting jump shots. When those dont fall for whatever reason, they're vulnerable to losing to anyone. But I wouldn't count on that happening all the time.

[gilpdawg]

I wouldn't get too excited about Wisconsins downfall just yet. Their offense is very much dependent on hitting jump shots. When those dont fall for whatever reason, they're vulnerable to losing to anyone. But I wouldn't count on that happening all the time.Yeah, that could have been a fluky loss, but normally they find a way to win that game. Not saying they suck, just that they may be down slightly, which is still good for us.

[fearofpopvol1]

IU ranked 12th in both polls, even after losing to MSU. That Ohio State win must have really helped.

Will IU beat Michigan? A win vs the Wolverines I feel like will help solidify IU as a threat. I'm curious to see how IU fares on the road in conference competition.

[Playadlc]

IU opens as an 8 point favorite over Michigan.

[Hoosier Red]

Really, would it kill this team to make it easy once in a while? However in a week where Wisconsin loses to Iowa & A&T loses to Penn State by 20 there's no such thing as a bad win.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Really, would it kill this team to make it easy once in a while? However in a week where Wisconsin loses to Iowa & A&T loses to Penn State by 20 there's no such thing as a bad win.

Two things to remember:

1. It's the Big 10 -- the worst teams play the best teams tough, so winning by a large margin against a top 20 team is tough; and

2. IU is good, but still very, very young. You can see them maturing -- last night Watford's passes inside to Zeller were something they hadn't done against Michigan State the week before, but you can also see how they get rattled -- Oladapu gets frustrated and then makes poor decisions.

[Hoosier Red]

Two things to remember:

1. It's the Big 10 -- the worst teams play the best teams tough, so winning by a large margin against a top 20 team is tough; and

2. IU is good, but still very, very young. You can see them maturing -- last night Watford's passes inside to Zeller were something they hadn't done against Michigan State the week before, but you can also see how they get rattled -- Oladapu gets frustrated and then makes poor decisions.

I know I know. Cody made some terrible decisions last night too. Ecstatic at how things have worked out and IU is winning all the close games they lost in the past few years. A lot of that has to do with mental toughness etc etc, but a lot has to do with simply luck evening out after the last few years.

[fearofpopvol1]

IU needs to win on Saturday and for some teams ahead of them to lose. Most teams ahead won their early week game.

[fearofpopvol1]

IU was on fire with the 3s today and got a good road win. I think IU will be in the top 10 now in the polls. Louisville, Georgetown and Connecticut all lost this week (and CT lost twice). Missouri lost too, but I don't know that IU makes that big of a jump. I could be wrong though.

It's pretty amazing when you consider that IU wasn't even ranked to start the year and didn't even start getting attention until before the UK game.

[Razor Shines]

IU was on fire with the 3s today and got a good road win. I think IU will be in the top 10 now in the polls. Louisville, Georgetown and Connecticut all lost this week (and CT lost twice). Missouri lost too, but I don't know that IU makes that big of a jump. I could be wrong though.

It's pretty amazing when you consider that IU wasn't even ranked to start the year and didn't even start getting attention until before the UK game.

Last few years they had to shoot like that to win any game.


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[traderumor]

I'm not a believer in Indiana yet. If they hang with OSU at their place Sunday, I might think they are legit.

However, my suspicion is that as the year plays out is that Wisconsin will be better than Indiana come tournament time. The Big 10 seems to come down to Ohio State/Michigan State. The rest of the league is mediocre or worst, with maybe only Wisconsin and IU being a tick above average.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm not a believer in Indiana yet. If they hang with OSU at their place Sunday, I might think they are legit.

However, my suspicion is that as the year plays out is that Wisconsin will be better than Indiana come tournament time. The Big 10 seems to come down to Ohio State/Michigan State. The rest of the league is mediocre or worst, with maybe only Wisconsin and IU being a tick above average.

I understand the skepticism, but would you be this skeptic if IUs last three seasons looked more like Illinois or Purdue?

I don't think Indiana will end up in the top 10, but there's no reason they shouldn't be ranked there now.

IU's going to lose a game or two that they have "no business losing," much like Wisconsin did. In the end I'll be pleasantly surprised if they're 13-5 or better in the B1G Ten.
But in terms of proving it on the court, IU has done as much if not more than just about any team in the country so far.

[traderumor]

I understand the skepticism, but would you be this skeptic if IUs last three seasons looked more like Illinois or Purdue?

I don't think Indiana will end up in the top 10, but there's no reason they shouldn't be ranked there now.

IU's going to lose a game or two that they have "no business losing," much like Wisconsin did. In the end I'll be pleasantly surprised if they're 13-5 or better in the B1G Ten.
But in terms of proving it on the court, IU has done as much if not more than just about any team in the country so far.UK and OSU wins are home court advantage wins. What is a signature road win?

[gilpdawg]

UK and OSU wins are home court advantage wins. What is a signature road win?
That's over-rated. Kentucky was 3-7 in true road games last season and went to the Final Four. Beating good teams on the road in college hoops is hard! All you have to do on the road is beat up on the Nebraskas and Penn States of the world. Just because they don't have a road win over an Ohio State or a Wisconsin yet doesn't invalidate anything they've done to this point.

[traderumor]

That's over-rated. Kentucky was 3-7 in true road games last season and went to the Final Four. Beating good teams on the road in college hoops is hard! All you have to do on the road is beat up on the Nebraskas and Penn States of the world. Just because they don't have a road win over an Ohio State or a Wisconsin yet doesn't invalidate anything they've done to this point.Right, so how does IU winning those games at home prove their strength?

And UK was clearly a different team in the tourney than the one that compiled the road record.

Top 10 teams, which seems to be where IU fans think they deserve to be ranked, will have some good road wins on their resume. Their first test against MSU was a loss. They have another one coming up against Ohio State. They win that game, then I think they have an argument for being an upper echelon team.

Right now, I just think they are a hot team which I expect to regress as the season wears on.

[Razor Shines]

Right, so how does IU winning those games at home prove their strength?

And UK was clearly a different team in the tourney than the one that compiled the road record.

Top 10 teams, which seems to be where IU fans think they deserve to be ranked, will have some good road wins on their resume. Their first test against MSU was a loss. They have another one coming up against Ohio State. They win that game, then I think they have an argument for being an upper echelon team.

Right now, I just think they are a hot team which I expect to regress as the season wears on.

That first test was their first game without Sheehey, one of their best players. May not have mattered, but I think they have adjusted well to playing without Sheehey since that game.

You may not think IU is a top ten team and they may not be but any team in the country that had beat the teams IU has so far they would be ranked in the top ten.


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[Brutus]

Right, so how does IU winning those games at home prove their strength?

And UK was clearly a different team in the tourney than the one that compiled the road record.

Top 10 teams, which seems to be where IU fans think they deserve to be ranked, will have some good road wins on their resume. Their first test against MSU was a loss. They have another one coming up against Ohio State. They win that game, then I think they have an argument for being an upper echelon team.

Right now, I just think they are a hot team which I expect to regress as the season wears on.

Road wins are almost non-existent everywhere in college basketball this season. The top 10 teams in the AP poll have a combined 10 road wins among them. None of those road wins, in fact, are against ranked teams (with the exception of Michigan State's win against Gonzaga).

As a philosophy, I agree with what you're saying. Right now, though, no one has impressive road wins. Only a few teams in the top 10 even have multiple road wins here on January 9.

[Hoosier Red]

Road wins are almost non-existent everywhere in college basketball this season. The top 10 teams in the AP poll have a combined 10 road wins among them. None of those road wins, in fact, are against ranked teams (with the exception of Michigan State's win against Gonzaga).

As a philosophy, I agree with what you're saying. Right now, though, no one has impressive road wins. Only a few teams in the top 10 even have multiple road wins here on January 9.

For comparison sake, Indiana has 3 road wins, though none of them are exactly awe inspiring(Evansville, NC State, Penn State) so I agree with you Brutus.

[Razor Shines]

#8 in the coaches poll. I don't care if they dont deserve it, it's awesome to see that. I've been a huge Crean supporter the last three years and even I didnt think any thing near this was possible so quickly.


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[fearofpopvol1]

Also ranked 7 in the AP poll, which I tend to like better (and they are ahead of Duke in the AP poll)! I'm surprised IU moved past Missouri in both polls to be honest.

I fully believe IU is better than Wisconsin. I'm not sure how one cam make the case that Wisconsin is better. Wisconsin lost on their home court to Iowa. Wisconsin is not a very good scoring team nor do they rebound well.

IU still has weaknesses. They are not particularly great with rebounding the ball either and they tend to turn over the ball too much. I'd like to think they can and will fix the latter as the season goes on. IU will struggle when they play teams that have size on them and rebound the ball well.

For what it's worth, and it's an Insider article, Jay Bilas has his own index which ranks teams according to mostly advance metrics. In the Bilas Index, IU ranks #6. He says this, "The Hoosiers are shooting 45.6 percent from 3, best in the nation. And the Hoosiers are allowing only 0.74 points per possession in the half court, third in the Big Ten. I'm looking forward to this show going on the road."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7438579/college-hoops-top-68-rankings-indiana-hoosiers-keep-winning-jump-no-17-no-6

[traderumor]

Also ranked 7 in the AP poll, which I tend to like better (and they are ahead of Duke in the AP poll)! I'm surprised IU moved past Missouri in both polls to be honest.

I fully believe IU is better than Wisconsin. I'm not sure how one cam make the case that Wisconsin is better. Wisconsin lost on their home court to Iowa. Wisconsin is not a very good scoring team nor do they rebound well.

IU still has weaknesses. They are not particularly great with rebounding the ball either and they tend to turn over the ball too much. I'd like to think they can and will fix the latter as the season goes on. IU will struggle when they play teams that have size on them and rebound the ball well.

For what it's worth, and it's an Insider article, Jay Bilas has his own index which ranks teams according to mostly advance metrics. In the Bilas Index, IU ranks #6. He says this, "The Hoosiers are shooting 45.6 percent from 3, best in the nation. And the Hoosiers are allowing only 0.74 points per possession in the half court, third in the Big Ten. I'm looking forward to this show going on the road."

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7438579/college-hoops-top-68-rankings-indiana-hoosiers-keep-winning-jump-no-17-no-6Sustainable? Teams that rely on outside shooting, esp. something anomalic like almost 50% on 3s are going to have some nervous fans on nights when the shots aren't falling. It's the equivalent of a baseball team that overly relies on the longball. Teams will make the adjustment to the strength, then we'll see how things look.

[Razor Shines]

Sustainable? Teams that rely on outside shooting, esp. something anomalic like almost 50% on 3s are going to have some nervous fans on nights when the shots aren't falling. It's the equivalent of a baseball team that overly relies on the longball. Teams will make the adjustment to the strength, then we'll see how things look.

Except they are a good defensive team too. Plus Watford, Zeller and Olidipo score inside and open up the outiside. Saying they rely in the outside shot is a bit of a stretch. The only shot 5-13 against Ohio St.


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[fearofpopvol1]

Sustainable? Teams that rely on outside shooting, esp. something anomalic like almost 50% on 3s are going to have some nervous fans on nights when the shots aren't falling. It's the equivalent of a baseball team that overly relies on the longball. Teams will make the adjustment to the strength, then we'll see how things look.

And that's where I think you're wrong. IU doesn't rely on the 3 every game and when teams heavily guard the 3, IU can pass inside to Zeller. Besides that, I think this team will be at least a legitimate 40% from 3, come the end of the season, which will still be very good.

[Hoosier Red]

#8 in the coaches poll. I don't care if they dont deserve it, it's awesome to see that. I've been a huge Crean supporter the last three years and even I didnt think any thing near this was possible so quickly.


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Agreed. I've taken a lot of flack from my crimsoncast colleagues but I truly believed this team was a tournament team. I just didn't think it was a #3 or 4 seed tournament team. First two rounds in Louisville with Kentucky on the other side of the pod. Would certainly make for some interesting crowds.

[Hoosier Red]

Sustainable? Teams that rely on outside shooting, esp. something anomalic like almost 50% on 3s are going to have some nervous fans on nights when the shots aren't falling. It's the equivalent of a baseball team that overly relies on the longball. Teams will make the adjustment to the strength, then we'll see how things look.

So far this season, IU's 3 point shooting percentage is better than 87% of the countries overall shooting percentage. It is better than every team in the B1G Ten's overall shooting percentage save for tOSU.

[traderumor]

All that IU kool aid, boy that's gonna be one heck of a sugar crash.

[Hoosier Red]

All that IU kool aid, boy that's gonna be one heck of a sugar crash.

Not really. I've said that I don't expect them to finish in the top 10 when it's all said and done. I simply resent the idea that IU hasn't proven anything this season and the correlating implication that other squads have.

If IU's wins over UK and tOSU are no big deal because they came at home, what do we make of Ohio State? The only top 25 win they currently possess is over Duke @home. They've gone on the road 3 times and are 1-2.

If IU goes to Columbus and pulls an upset, then it's a big deal obviously. If they go to Columbus and lose, whether by 1, 5 or 50, it really doesn't matter.

[WMR]

I would love to see IU put in Kentucky's bracket. They would just love the Chum Center with 19k UK fans. :lol:

[SunDeck]

What I really like about college basketball is that you can see teams progress up the rankings, then back down again if other teams figure out what their weaknesses are. Right now, IU is responding to the game plans of other teams; when they try to shut them down in the paint, they are able to shoot their way past them.
However, I doubt it will last because opposing teams are going to figure out ways to defend them, to lock out the big men, defend the three, exploit weaknesses, make IU come up with new ways to win. That's the nature of it and whether IU can sustain their success and respond to the changes other teams will throw at them remains to be seen.
From a fan perspective, I'm tickled to see them doing so well. I would have never thought they'd be this far, so fast. If they falter, it won't surprise me, but so far all the surprises have been fun to watch.

[Hoosier Red]

I would love to see IU put in Kentucky's bracket. They would just love the Chum Center with 19k UK fans. :lol:

I somehow doubt they'd only let Kentucky fans in :) In fact, I'm thinking it would look like the previous versions of the IU-UK games in Louisville or Indy with half the seats in red and half the seats in blue.

[WMR]

I somehow doubt they'd only let Kentucky fans in :) In fact, I'm thinking it would look like the previous versions of the IU-UK games in Louisville or Indy with half the seats in red and half the seats in blue.

The seats for that game have already been pretty much sold.

[traderumor]

Not really. I've said that I don't expect them to finish in the top 10 when it's all said and done. I simply resent the idea that IU hasn't proven anything this season and the correlating implication that other squads have.

If IU's wins over UK and tOSU are no big deal because they came at home, what do we make of Ohio State? The only top 25 win they currently possess is over Duke @home. They've gone on the road 3 times and are 1-2.

If IU goes to Columbus and pulls an upset, then it's a big deal obviously. If they go to Columbus and lose, whether by 1, 5 or 50, it really doesn't matter.yea, pretty much. Notice I never said Ohio State has proven anything either....well except that 30 point win at Iowa was a good sign. And other than the IU game, which I believe was a good gut check game for them where failure helped them grow, they've just been pounding people.

They still need more consistent perimeter play from guards, like Buford and Sibert, or they'll be sweet 16 and done again. They start getting some consistent outside shooting, its Katie bar the door.

[TeamSelig]

I am in IU fan land where I'm from.... you can definitely tell IU has a competitive team this year. So many fans trash talking again, just like the good ole days. Personally, I prefer IU to be terrible, but it is good for some trash talking.

[Razor Shines]

yea, pretty much. Notice I never said Ohio State has proven anything either....well except that 30 point win at Iowa was a good sign. And other than the IU game, which I believe was a good gut check game for them where failure helped them grow, they've just been pounding people.

They still need more consistent perimeter play from guards, like Buford and Sibert, or they'll be sweet 16 and done again. They start getting some consistent outside shooting, its Katie bar the door.

So are you talking about the sugar crash in the OSU thread? Cause over there they're talking about a NC. Over here we're saying we didn't expect this much so soon....possibly getting a 3 or 4 seed and maybe winning a couple games in the tourney. Does that really seem ridiculous to you?


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[rdiersin]

I am in IU fan land where I'm from.... you can definitely tell IU has a competitive team this year. So many fans trash talking again, just like the good ole days. Personally, I prefer IU to be terrible, but it is good for some trash talking.

As a Purdue fan and living in the IU part of the state, I understand what you mean, but as far as this thread is going, the IU fans seem to be pretty spot on and not trashing talking (outside of the annoying A &T references). IU is ranked 8 on kenpom and have a good adjusted offense and adjusted defense. It will be interesting to see how the season plays out. IU has played well and I don't get this talk that it isn't sustainable. They are where the polls and the computers say they should be. There isn't anything huge that jumps out to say they are gong to crash. They have a good mix of youth and upperclassmen. Sure they may go through some tough stretches but so do all teams. I feel dirty now.

[Hoosier Red]

Sorry rdiersin, I kid because I love

[rdiersin]

Sorry rdiersin, I kid because I love

No worries there. It just is a pet peeve of mine, like when UK fans call U of L little brother, even though I'm not even a U of L fan. I know its just a joke, but it just seems a bit arrogant.

It will be interesting to see what happens with IU in the coming years. Having IU/Purdue games that are actually relevant will be fun. Outside of the year Eric Gordon was at IU, it hasn't happened in a long time, first with Purdue being down at the end of Gene's time and then of course with IU's difficulties the past several years. Hopefully more of the in-state talent will stay in-state (and hopefully more will come to Purdue;)) and both programs can stay toward the top of the Big 10.

[fearofpopvol1]

yea, pretty much. Notice I never said Ohio State has proven anything either....well except that 30 point win at Iowa was a good sign. And other than the IU game, which I believe was a good gut check game for them where failure helped them grow, they've just been pounding people.

They still need more consistent perimeter play from guards, like Buford and Sibert, or they'll be sweet 16 and done again. They start getting some consistent outside shooting, its Katie bar the door.

Ohio State lost to Illinois tonight. It was a road game, but that's nothing to be proud about.

Michigan State looks like the Big 10 team to beat. 95-61 against Iowa. I know Iowa isn't great, but that's a crazy win.

[fearofpopvol1]

Not really. I've said that I don't expect them to finish in the top 10 when it's all said and done. I simply resent the idea that IU hasn't proven anything this season and the correlating implication that other squads have.

If IU's wins over UK and tOSU are no big deal because they came at home, what do we make of Ohio State? The only top 25 win they currently possess is over Duke @home. They've gone on the road 3 times and are 1-2.

If IU goes to Columbus and pulls an upset, then it's a big deal obviously. If they go to Columbus and lose, whether by 1, 5 or 50, it really doesn't matter.

Don't forget Michigan too. That is absolutely a quality win, even if it's at home.

[Hoosier Red]

No worries there. It just is a pet peeve of mine, like when UK fans call U of L little brother, even though I'm not even a U of L fan. I know its just a joke, but it just seems a bit arrogant.

It will be interesting to see what happens with IU in the coming years. Having IU/Purdue games that are actually relevant will be fun. Outside of the year Eric Gordon was at IU, it hasn't happened in a long time, first with Purdue being down at the end of Gene's time and then of course with IU's difficulties the past several years. Hopefully more of the in-state talent will stay in-state (and hopefully more will come to Purdue;)) and both programs can stay toward the top of the Big 10.

That's true. It's really mind blowing how much talent is going through the state right now. If Hanner Perea were eligible for Mr. Basketball, IU recruits would be a near lock to have 4 players on the Indiana-Kentucky all star squad including two or three guys competing for Mr. Basketball, and yet having said that, in any other year Purdue would be celebrating how loaded its class was.

[Hoosier Red]

I've been slacking from my Pre-Game Meal duties, but here's my post for the Minnesota game. http://www.crimsoncast.com/?p=3233

[thatcoolguy_22]

I can't tell if Traderumor really believes what he is saying or is just trolling. Anyone?

if anyone reads the crimsonquarry you have already seen this article but

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2012/1/9/2693762/indiana-hoosiers-soft-schedule-doesnt-tell-the-whole-story

the teaser...


Much has been made about the schedule so far. A large contingency of critics who are still uncertain about Indiana basketball point to the schedule for a crutch. They will tell you Indiana hasn’t played anyone outside of Bloomington or their cupcake schedule is providing all of those wins. This however is merely a meme and not the true case. Indiana has played an above average difficulty of schedule and many just don’t see it or want to admit it. Currently according to Pomeroy, IU has played the 68th toughest schedule in the nation. That is good enough for fifth in the conference, behind only Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern and Nebraska.



Quality Wins
1) Syracuse: Florida(home), Marquette(home), and thats it
2) Kentucky: UNC(home), KU(nuetral), and LOU(home)
3) UNC: Mich ST(nuetral), Wisc (home) and thats it
4) Baylor: KSU(road), West Virginia? (home) and thats it

7)Indiana: UK (home), OSU(home), and Michigan (home)


Take away the preseason hype and IU would be number 2 or 3 in the polls. Far and away the best collection of wins by any team in the nation. People can say they don't believe or they are over-rated, but those people usually are Buckeye or Wildcat fans.

[traderumor]

I can't tell if Traderumor really believes what he is saying or is just trolling. Anyone?

if anyone reads the crimsonquarry you have already seen this article but

http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2012/1/9/2693762/indiana-hoosiers-soft-schedule-doesnt-tell-the-whole-story

the teaser...





Quality Wins
1) Syracuse: Florida(home), Marquette(home), and thats it
2) Kentucky: UNC(home), KU(nuetral), and LOU(home)
3) UNC: Mich ST(nuetral), Wisc (home) and thats it
4) Baylor: KSU(road), West Virginia? (home) and thats it

7)Indiana: UK (home), OSU(home), and Michigan (home)


Take away the preseason hype and IU would be number 2 or 3 in the polls. Far and away the best collection of wins by any team in the nation. People can say they don't believe or they are over-rated, but those people usually are Buckeye or Wildcat fans.40 years of watching the game, seen dozens of December/January flashes come and go. I don't troll. What do I have on this board, over 15,000 posts? The Hoosiers will suddenly lose 2 or 3 in a row, lose to teams they should not in the latter part of the season, and make an early exit from the tourney. That's my prediction. You can revisit it later.

BTW, I guess IU has been off the radar for so long, I am shocked to learn how much the fans like to repeat "have I told you how great we are?" Sort of like Kramer's annoying girlfriend, Toby: "great, really, really great!!!"

[Hoosier Red]

I've yet to hear any fan-on here at least-tell anyone how great IU is. Like I said, I get the skepticism. Heck I'm one of the most irrationally optimistic and naive people around and I'm skeptical that this will continue.

But take away IU's previous three years, and IU would absolutely be ranked in the top 5 without anyone raising an eyebrow.

With that said, I'm not sure I understand that your prediction is that much different than most on this board. I believe that IU will lose a few games which it is favored. Though the schedule opens up a little bit after the visit to Columbus, I can see IU losing back to back games or 3 out of 4. And if IU is out of the tournament by the end of the first weekend, I'll be disappointed but not terribly surprised.

Most IU fans are more excited because this year's team wasn't supposed to make the NCAA tournament, although I predicted it would (http://www.crimsoncast.com/2011/03/no-amount-of-hacking-will-keep-iu-from-2012-tournament/). So the fans' excitement isn't that this year's team is going to be great necessarily, but rather if this year's team has overacheived, think of what happens when they replace Daniel Moore, Tom Pritchard, and Verdell Jones III with the top level recruiting class that is coming in.

Even if IU went .500 for the rest of the regular season and finished 10-8 in the B1G Ten, they'd have 1 more win than the last two years combined. If they continue on the path that I'd expect, they'd be in position to win 28 games (including the B1G Ten and NCAA tournaments) which would tie the last three seasons. So it's not how great are we. It's how lousy were we and how much better is it to be a top team.


Of course it doesn't actually work that way, but that never gets in the way of fans' assumptions.

[thatcoolguy_22]

40 years of watching the game, seen dozens of December/January flashes come and go. I don't troll. What do I have on this board, over 15,000 posts? The Hoosiers will suddenly lose 2 or 3 in a row, lose to teams they should not in the latter part of the season, and make an early exit from the tourney. That's my prediction. You can revisit it later.

BTW, I guess IU has been off the radar for so long, I am shocked to learn how much the fans like to repeat "have I told you how great we are?" Sort of like Kramer's annoying girlfriend, Toby: "great, really, really great!!!"

I present


Right, so how does IU winning those games at home prove their strength?

And UK was clearly a different team in the tourney than the one that compiled the road record.

Top 10 teams, which seems to be where IU fans think they deserve to be ranked, will have some good road wins on their resume. Their first test against MSU was a loss. They have another one coming up against Ohio State. They win that game, then I think they have an argument for being an upper echelon team.

Right now, I just think they are a hot team which I expect to regress as the season wears on.

I'm saying based on what THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE, they are easily a top 10 if not top 5 team in the nation. No one in the nation has a better resume at this point of the season. I agree that IU is just a really hot team right now and due for regression, but to discredit what has already been shown because they haven't reached a standard that no one in the nation has, is a bit much. IU has beaten #1, #2, #13 teams at home, decent wins on the road at NC State and Penn St, neutral court wins against ND and Butler, and held a lead late in what turned into a rout at Mich St. Who has done better at this point?

[Hoosier Red]

I present



I'm saying based on what THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE, they are easily a top 10 if not top 5 team in the nation. No one in the nation has a better resume at this point of the season. I agree that IU is just a really hot team right now and due for regression, but to discredit what has already been shown because they haven't reached a standard that no one in the nation has, is a bit much. IU has beaten #1, #2, #13 teams at home, decent wins on the road at NC State and Penn St, neutral court wins against ND and Butler, and held a lead late in what turned into a rout at Mich St. Who has done better at this point?


Small correction, Butler was at home.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Small correction, Butler was at home.

my B ;)

[traderumor]

I present



I'm saying based on what THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE, they are easily a top 10 if not top 5 team in the nation. No one in the nation has a better resume at this point of the season. I agree that IU is just a really hot team right now and due for regression, but to discredit what has already been shown because they haven't reached a standard that no one in the nation has, is a bit much. IU has beaten #1, #2, #13 teams at home, decent wins on the road at NC State and Penn St, neutral court wins against ND and Butler, and held a lead late in what turned into a rout at Mich St. Who has done better at this point?Really, whatever. I don't think you understand "trolling" to use that term to describe me. Apparently it means "someone who is not as impressed with IU as their fans and annoyed at the IU faithful's response to a step forward in the program."

Who cares about rankings in January? I am evaluating and really only care about what I think a team will look like come Big Dance time. If IU fans want to revel in beating a team that was ranked this at some point in time, so be it, but its really not much of an argument for the overall quality of their team. For example, I'm much less impressed with the Buckeyes win over Duke since it is apparent that they were ranked too high, but they were top 5 when the Bucks played them. So what? Right now, the Buckeyes would be lucky to make Sweet 16, but I certainly expect them to improve from this point. And that is what really matters, how you are playing at tournament time.

[Razor Shines]

40 years of watching the game, seen dozens of December/January flashes come and go. I don't troll. What do I have on this board, over 15,000 posts? The Hoosiers will suddenly lose 2 or 3 in a row, lose to teams they should not in the latter part of the season, and make an early exit from the tourney. That's my prediction. You can revisit it later.

BTW, I guess IU has been off the radar for so long, I am shocked to learn how much the fans like to repeat "have I told you how great we are?" Sort of like Kramer's annoying girlfriend, Toby: "great, really, really great!!!"

Except no one is really doing that. If you find people talking about being excited about IU basketball annoying maybe stay out of the IU basketball thread? What do you expect?

You're making it sound as if we expect a final four run or something when no one has come close to that.

Yes we are excited about wins in Dec/Jan over #s 1,2 and 13. Name me one fan base in the country that wouldn't be and especially with the last three seasons IU has had.

I dont know about this flash in the pan stuff either. If its flash in the pan to jump up in the top ten but finish the season between 15-20, then I guess they are a flash in the pan. But if you can't see that this team has real talent, and you think they're a borderline tournament team then I don't know what to say for your 40 years of watching basketball. You may not want it to happen but I have to tell you with this team and the classes that are coming in, IU basketball is back will be battling OSU for Big Ten supremacy in years to come.


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[traderumor]

Except no one is really doing that. If you find people talking about being excited about IU basketball annoying maybe stay out of the IU basketball thread? What do you expect?

You're making it sound as if we expect a final four run or something when no one has come close to that.

Yes we are excited about wins in Dec/Jan over #s 1,2 and 13. Name me one fan base in the country that wouldn't be and especially with the last three seasons IU has had.

I dont know about this flash in the pan stuff either. If its flash in the pan to jump up in the top ten but finish the season between 15-20, then I guess they are a flash in the pan. But if you can't see that this team has real talent, and you think they're a borderline tournament team then I don't know what to say for your 40 years of watching basketball. You may not want it to happen but I have to tell you with this team and the classes that are coming in, IU basketball is back will be battling OSU for Big Ten supremacy in years to come.




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI said neither. I have not spoken to the talent level, which I would say is a tick above average. Kinda reminds me of the first Matta OSU team that overachieved, the whole greater than the sum of the parts thing. Also, note that I only predicted an early exit from the tourney, maybe a sweet 16 entry. I haven't said anything about "borderline tournament team." I also did not say anything about the future past this season, so no idea where you conclude I said "flash in the pan." If you're gonna rip me, at least properly represent what I did say.

As for the future, ok, bring it on. Although I don't have much love for Crean, so I expect any gains to be short lived.

[WMR]

I think IU is playing above their heads right now but they're going to be getting a couple more nice pieces next year and should be a dangerous team from now on.

[Razor Shines]

I said neither. I have not spoken to the talent level, which I would say is a tick above average. Kinda reminds me of the first Matta OSU team that overachieved, the whole greater than the sum of the parts thing. Also, note that I only predicted an early exit from the tourney, maybe a sweet 16 entry. I haven't said anything about "borderline tournament team." I also did not say anything about the future past this season, so no idea where you conclude I said "flash in the pan." If you're gonna rip me, at least properly represent what I did say.

As for the future, ok, bring it on. Although I don't have much love for Crean, so I expect any gains to be short lived.

My bad about the "flash in the pan" thing. I could swear I read that somewhere. I guess I just mentally added that...I don't know. Sorry about that.

As for the rest, well where's the "sugar crash" gonna be? You think it'll be an early tourney exit, maybe a sweet sixteen run.....that's the same thing most of us have been predicting.

You say we're talking about how great we are....but we're not. We think this season will end up about the same as you do....the difference is we are EXCITED about that. Yes excited to be a tourney team, excited to maybe win a game or two. We see this team as on the way up. I'm sorry if the excitement annoys you but again what do you expect from an IU basketball thread? Also, again, tell me what fanbase in the country wouldn't be excited if their team had the wins that IU has had?

I guess the fact that Crean annoys you on the sideline and has a stupid hair cut is where this comes from? I don't know but I don't see anything short lived about the classes that are coming in.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by traderumor
40 years of watching the game, seen dozens of December/January flashes come and go. I don't troll. What do I have on this board, over 15,000 posts? The Hoosiers will suddenly lose 2 or 3 in a row, lose to teams they should not in the latter part of the season, and make an early exit from the tourney. That's my prediction. You can revisit it later.

Ah, that's where I got "flash in the pan" from. Not an exact quote but doesn't that ^ mean nearly the same thing? So if jumping up to the top 10 but finishing the season between 15-20 is a flash that comes and goes, I guess that's what we are.

[traderumor]

Ah, that's where I got "flash in the pan" from. Not an exact quote but doesn't that ^ mean nearly the same thing? So if jumping up to the top 10 but finishing the season between 15-20 is a flash that comes and goes, I guess that's what we are.Well, I'm talking about this season regarding the "flash," never talked about the future. Not qualified, don't get wrapped up in the "we got these recruits coming in" discussions.

Regardless, glad you all are happy with the program. I'm just looking in from the outside and see a bit of giddiness over a little bit of success, sort of like the floor rush scene last season.

Not to mention all the screw jobs teams got not only in Bloomington, but on the road during the Knight years because the refs were intimidated--a little bit of bitterness coming out from my side? Perhaps ;) After this year's game in Bloomington, I commented "What the heck? Knight isn't the coach here anymore."

Sidebar--Love Bob Knight as an announcer, probably my favorite. Hated him as IU coach.

[Hoosier Red]

Traderumor certainly called it. Not sure any of us disagreed, but he called it. Ugly

[WMR]

It's that ball line defense. Tell 'em Razor. ;)

[traderumor]

Traderumor certainly called it. Not sure any of us disagreed, but he called it. UglyMaybe 40 years of watching the game is worth something. It is easier to put that experience into practice when its not one of my teams. I didn't even know that happened until visiting here this morning. Minnesota at home, I sure wasn't thinking that. Man, was just reading a very nasty article about Tubby yesterday afternoon.

[Razor Shines]

Traderumor certainly called it. Not sure any of us disagreed, but he called it. Ugly

That's the thing we all expected a game like this could happen. If we thought they were a final four team we would be very upset this morning, but I'm not that worried about it they're still the same team I thought they were yesterday.

Bad games happen. No big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hoosier Red]

Maybe 40 years of watching the game is worth something. It is easier to put that experience into practice when its not one of my teams. I didn't even know that happened until visiting here this morning. Minnesota at home, I sure wasn't thinking that. Man, was just reading a very nasty article about Tubby yesterday afternoon.

Maybe, although I still don't think Hoosier fans have less perspective on what this team is likely to accomplish. In fact we've all seemed to agree on the relative ceiling. However, I think you misinterpreted IU fans celebrating an NCAA tournament berth after 3 years of desolation. In your mind when IU fans were getting optimistic, it was because we thought there was a legitimate title run in the offering.

[Hoosier Red]

My latest post deals with one of my absolute pet peeves of college athletics.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2012/01/pre-game-meal-the-ohio-state-university-take-2/

[fearofpopvol1]

That was a bummer. It's hard to temper expectations after the great run so far. And it's not so much losing to Minnesota, it's losing to them at home. I would have been more okay with this on the road. And it doesn't help that Ohio State in Columbus is up next. They sure would redeem themselves if they won this game though.

IU has got to stop turning the ball over so much. It's seriously going to kill them. The rebounding was poor too, but I don't know how much they can do about that. It's not as easy to fix.

[thatcoolguy_22]

My latest post deals with one of my absolute pet peeves of college athletics.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2012/01/pre-game-meal-the-ohio-state-university-take-2/

Find a way for military computers to allow me to access this, and I will read all about your college athletics pet peeves ;)


I think this win is exactly what IU needed. They are still a young team and have been winning recently with very sloppy ball handling and defense. You won't win in the tournament depending on 66% 3pt%. Comparing the defensive effort to what they turned in against clearly superior teams (OSU/UK) with what they did against inferior (Penn St/Minn) is night and day. Maybe this is the wake up call they need. #lookingforsomesortofsilverlining

[Scrap Irony]

Don’t be that guy. Don’t be the fan who celebrates every win but deflects every loss with “well wait until our recruits come up next year” You know who that guy is? That guy’s a Kentucky fan who is used to seeing his team assemble the best talent money can buy recruited to stay at the school for one year and be replaced by the next 5 star recruit in line.

Completely unfair to fans of those universities and to the universities themselves.

It's also a cheap shot that should be above the writer.

You do know that IU has been in trouble twice-- serious trouble, BTW-- since Kentucky last was questioned by the NCAA. Both times for recruiting violations.

[traderumor]

My latest post deals with one of my absolute pet peeves of college athletics.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2012/01/pre-game-meal-the-ohio-state-university-take-2/A lot of potshots taken in that article. Sounds like small thinking to me. I would imagine the reason you root for the Hoosiers is because of the big deal that Knight made IU basketball.

[WMR]

Wow, Hoosier Red, that's some bush league stuff from you. Thought you were better than that.

How's that Indiana Elite relationship working out for Crean?

Wow. Again, totally bush league from you.

[WMR]

It's funny how easily that Indiana "holier than thou" world view comes out.

RMK would be proud of you, Hoosier Red.

[Hoosier Red]

Wow, Hoosier Red, that's some bush league stuff from you. Thought you were better than that.

How's that Indiana Elite relationship working out for Crean?

Wow. Again, totally bush league from you.

What? I crossed it out :) It's a cheap shot meant to be taken as a joke.

I do think that the fans sell a bit of their soul when they get too excited about the next class of recruits, and when you continuously turn over your program the way Calipari(and others) have, there's no choice but to continuously be pushing for the next class.

In an ideal world, there's a connection in college sports that you don't have in the pros. And I think a little bit of that goes away when a guy comes to school for one year or two and is out the door.

I don't discourage the player from leaving. I don't really discourage a coach from pursuing a top player who will leave after one year. But just as I find it bad form to cheer for a coach being fired, I find it poor form to be excited about an outgoing senior leaving the court so some guy who's not done anything for the university yet can take his place.

I especially find it distasteful to cheer that a guy who has given as much as anyone in this particular senior class is going to be gone.

[fearofpopvol1]

Wow, Kentucky fans sure seem thin skinned! But while we're at it, Cal is hardly a model citizen.

Camby speaks for itself.

I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that.

Then you have Dozier and Rose. I won't put that all on Cal, but it happened on his watch and you can't ignore that when you consider all of the other questions surrounding Cal.

I think it's also strange that Cal would try to celebrate 500 wins with 2 vacated seasons. It reeks of either ignorance or arrogance. Which was it?

Anyone remember Dan Garcia as well? What a nice guy Cal is!

I would be shocked if it doesn't come out that Cal has more scandals. He just reeks of a slimy guy, my personal opinion.

[WMR]

Wow, Kentucky fans sure seem thin skinned! But while we're at it, Cal is hardly a model citizen.

Camby speaks for itself.

I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that.

Then you have Dozier and Rose. I won't put that all on Cal, but it happened on his watch and you can't ignore that when you consider all of the other questions surrounding Cal.

I think it's also strange that Cal would try to celebrate 500 wins with 2 vacated seasons. It reeks of either ignorance or arrogance. Which was it?

Anyone remember Dan Garcia as well? What a nice guy Cal is!

I would be shocked if it doesn't come out that Cal has more scandals. He just reeks of a slimy guy, my personal opinion.

Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.

Do you know that Indiana has only beaten Kentucky 5 times in the last 21 meetings?

Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.

[SunDeck]

Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.



Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.

Are you sure you don't mean THE WORST since Slobodan Milošević is dead?

[Scrap Irony]

Wow, Kentucky fans sure seem thin skinned! But while we're at it, Cal is hardly a model citizen.

Camby speaks for itself.

I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that.

Then you have Dozier and Rose. I won't put that all on Cal, but it happened on his watch and you can't ignore that when you consider all of the other questions surrounding Cal.

I think it's also strange that Cal would try to celebrate 500 wins with 2 vacated seasons. It reeks of either ignorance or arrogance. Which was it?

Anyone remember Dan Garcia as well? What a nice guy Cal is!

I would be shocked if it doesn't come out that Cal has more scandals. He just reeks of a slimy guy, my personal opinion.

And your personal opinion means absolutely nothing.

Again, Calipari has NEVER been in trouble with the NCAA, has never been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

And it's not like they're looking the other way-- Yahoo Sports investigators and at least one other reporter spent six months looking this past year after the Kanter deal and the allegations of a $200,000 payment to Anthony Davis' father were attributed to an unnamed college coach.

They found nothing.

As to the "allegations" you're spewing:

The Camby case does indeed speak for itself. Calipari was the one who turned in his star player. He noticed the new threads, the nice jewelry, asked the kid (who then tearfully told him what had happened), then told the NCAA. Some coaches-- like, oh, the last one at Indiana-- would have kept that to themselves.

If hiring a Dad so that his son could play at a college is odious, is Calipari the only one you'll dog about that, or are you also going to get on Larry Brown and about a hundred other NCAA coaches as well? Would it change your mind at all if you knew that Calipari kept Milt Wagner on his staff for years after his son left? For that matter, as to Dejuan Wagner, you do know that Calipari insisted the kid go pro rather than stay another year in college? He knew it would affect his team negatively, yet he went so far as to tear up Wagner's scholarship papers.

Kanter has been covered ad nauseum. Others that were paid were considered amateurs. The only difference between Kanter and others was that Kanter's father physically took the money from the professional team rather than allowing for tutors as necessary expenses.

The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?

Finally, I'm not thin-skinned about Calipari. I'm thin-skinned about people who throw around allegations without an ounce of proof. Then act like it's someone else who has the problem.

[redsfanmia]

nm

[redsfanmia]

Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.

Cal is of questionable ethics.

Bob Knight while a complete and out of control jerk has done many good things for many people, plus I don't think that Adolph Rupp was ever going to win any awards for being a great human either, He had how many black players?

[Scrap Irony]

How in God's green world is Bobby Knight-- who shot a man, isn't allowed in Puerto Rico because of his actions there, and eventually got fired because he choked another human being (among other things)-- considered good, while Cal, who has none of that baggage, considered questionable?

Knight's colorful, quoteable, and was once a great coach. That's pretty much all you can say that's "good" about the man.

Meanwhile, Calipari has literally been the driving force behind three separate HUGE fundraising drives for underpriviledged around the country and world.

[Razor Shines]

Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.

Do you know that Indiana has only beaten Kentucky 5 times in the last 21 meetings?

Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.

:rolleyes: And you're post doesn't seem like an arrogant Kentucky fan's post?


Thanks everyone for ruining one of my favorite threads. :thumbup:

[redsfanmia]

How in God's green world is Bobby Knight-- who shot a man, isn't allowed in Puerto Rico because of his actions there, and eventually got fired because he choked another human being (among other things)-- considered good, while Cal, who has none of that baggage, considered questionable?

Knight's colorful, quoteable, and was once a great coach. That's pretty much all you can say that's "good" about the man.

Meanwhile, Calipari has literally been the driving force behind three separate HUGE fundraising drives for underpriviledged around the country and world.

You forgot to mention that Knight never had a whiff of NCAA violations and had an excellent graduation rate. Knight did more for people than you will ever know but he was never and is not a saint by any stretch.

Has any of Bob Knight's final four trips or national championships ever been vacated?

[Scrap Irony]

Vacated why? If you're going to play the game, play it fairly now.

Calipari told the NCAA about Camby, and any coach in America would had his Final Four vacated with the Rose situation.

Cal's teams, btw, have a very fine GPA, tied with Vandy for the SEC high. I don't know how his team's 3.0 gpa match up with others, but I doubt they're far below anyone-- and likely far ahead of most.

[redsfanmia]

Vacated why? If you're going to play the game, play it fairly now.

Calipari told the NCAA about Camby, and any coach in America would had his Final Four vacated with the Rose situation.

Cal's teams, btw, have a very fine GPA, tied with Vandy for the SEC high. I don't know how his team's 3.0 gpa match up with others, but I doubt they're far below anyone-- and likely far ahead of most.

Even if Cal is not "guilty" of anything personally he is the leader of the program and sets the tone for his athletes, to claim he had nothing to do with anything that caused his Final Four's to be vacated is asinine in my uneducated opinion. I know when I look at Calipari or listen to him talk I just feel a little dirty.

That said we should all just agree to disagree and move on and get this thread back on track.

[Scrap Irony]

Even if Cal is not "guilty" of anything personally he is the leader of the program and sets the tone for his athletes, to claim he had nothing to do with anything that caused his Final Four's to be vacated is asinine in my uneducated opinion. I know when I look at Calipari or listen to him talk I just feel a little dirty.

That said we should all just agree to disagree and move on and get this thread back on track.

You may want to revisit your dictionary about the word 'asinine'.

He had nothing to do with the Final Fours being vacated. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

You may think he did, but you'd be wrong.

And yeah, we should definitely move on, as you all will never change your unfounded opinions despite the facts.

[fearofpopvol1]

Perfect example of an Indiana fan right there.

Do you know that Indiana has only beaten Kentucky 5 times in the last 21 meetings?

Keep whining about Cal, though, it suits you.

Let me guess, you worship Bobby Knight? One of the worst human beings walking this planet.

I like how you've tried to turn my post into how Kentucky is better and has beaten IU more and throw a little Bobby Knight into the mix too.

Perfect example of a Kentucky fan there. Can't debate the merits of the argument and instead tries pointing to other irrelevant factors. :beerme:

[Hoosier Red]

Alright enough!
Though given the bloodbath going on, I'm not sure ranking the people who would be higher than Knight on the worst person in history list might be more enjoyable.

[Scrap Irony]

I like how you've tried to turn my post into how Kentucky is better and has beaten IU more and throw a little Bobby Knight into the mix too.

Perfect example of a Kentucky fan there. Can't debate the merits of the argument and instead tries pointing to other irrelevant factors. :beerme:

And, because you have no proof to make nor any argument of merit of your own, you ignore those that have provided both.

Typical IU fan, I suppose?

[fearofpopvol1]

And your personal opinion means absolutely nothing.

Again, Calipari has NEVER been in trouble with the NCAA, has never been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

And it's not like they're looking the other way-- Yahoo Sports investigators and at least one other reporter spent six months looking this past year after the Kanter deal and the allegations of a $200,000 payment to Anthony Davis' father were attributed to an unnamed college coach.

They found nothing.

As to the "allegations" you're spewing:

The Camby case does indeed speak for itself. Calipari was the one who turned in his star player. He noticed the new threads, the nice jewelry, asked the kid (who then tearfully told him what had happened), then told the NCAA. Some coaches-- like, oh, the last one at Indiana-- would have kept that to themselves.

If hiring a Dad so that his son could play at a college is odious, is Calipari the only one you'll dog about that, or are you also going to get on Larry Brown and about a hundred other NCAA coaches as well? Would it change your mind at all if you knew that Calipari kept Milt Wagner on his staff for years after his son left? For that matter, as to Dejuan Wagner, you do know that Calipari insisted the kid go pro rather than stay another year in college? He knew it would affect his team negatively, yet he went so far as to tear up Wagner's scholarship papers.

Kanter has been covered ad nauseum. Others that were paid were considered amateurs. The only difference between Kanter and others was that Kanter's father physically took the money from the professional team rather than allowing for tutors as necessary expenses.

The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?

Finally, I'm not thin-skinned about Calipari. I'm thin-skinned about people who throw around allegations without an ounce of proof. Then act like it's someone else who has the problem.

Thin skinned, indeed! :beerme:


Again, Calipari has NEVER been in trouble with the NCAA, has never been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.


This is a poor argument. I could go shoplift a pack of gum from the grocery store and not get caught. Does that mean I'm clean?



And it's not like they're looking the other way-- Yahoo Sports investigators and at least one other reporter spent six months looking this past year after the Kanter deal and the allegations of a $200,000 payment to Anthony Davis' father were attributed to an unnamed college coach.

They found nothing.


Did you read my post? It seems as if you did not. My issue was that Cal likely knew of the benefits, but even if he didn't, he still tried to defend Kanter as an amateur after. That's arrogance or ignorance right there.


The Camby case does indeed speak for itself. Calipari was the one who turned in his star player. He noticed the new threads, the nice jewelry, asked the kid (who then tearfully told him what had happened), then told the NCAA. Some coaches-- like, oh, the last one at Indiana-- would have kept that to themselves.


Show me a quote where Cal said he turned Camby in please. No prognostications or purported stories, I want a real quote from Cal.

Regardless, Calipari was the coach and Camby was under his tutelage. Calipari is responsible for Camby and his actions involving the sport of basketball, period.

Cal was a great supporter of his kids grades, including Camby too, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/20/sports/college-basketball-preview-umass-grapples-with-games-and-grades.html?pagewanted=all

What has Cal's graduation rate been for his career? How many of his players have been ins some sort of academic trouble? Do you know Scrap Irony?

Why did Cal bolt for the NBA when the investigation was underway? And why did he leave for Kentucky when there was fire in Memphis with Rose & Dozier? Cal reminds me of Pete Carroll. Cal was the coach when Rose allowed his brother to travel to the games for free and that is a violation. Are you claiming he had no knowledge of that? Then you have the test score scandal too. Cal is the coach, his players play for him. Did he ever speak out against the issues with Rose? If he did, I sure don't remember it.

As for Sampson at IU, I've never tried to defend him. That's the difference between us! He was shady and he was rightly ousted (in the middle of a season, mind you) and set the program back several years. I'm glad he's gone.


If hiring a Dad so that his son could play at a college is odious, is Calipari the only one you'll dog about that, or are you also going to get on Larry Brown and about a hundred other NCAA coaches as well? Would it change your mind at all if you knew that Calipari kept Milt Wagner on his staff for years after his son left? For that matter, as to Dejuan Wagner, you do know that Calipari insisted the kid go pro rather than stay another year in college? He knew it would affect his team negatively, yet he went so far as to tear up Wagner's scholarship papers.


I can't harp too much since the NCAA has allowed it, but I certainly frown upon it as I think it's a shady practice. To the best of my knowledge, IU has never resorted to it.


The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?


As I said before, did Cal forget how many wins he had? Did he forget about the vacated seasons? It's either arrogance or ignorance. He could have stopped the celebration or said something and he didn't.

Lastly, I didn't see you respond about Dan Garcia? Are you going to defend that too?

[traderumor]

Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.

[Hoosier Red]

Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.

I'm not sure a lot of teams care particularly good w/o their shots falling or their inside game picking up the slack. The real problem has been lack of defense and far too many turnovers. Hopefully that will fix itself.

[WVRed]

Wow, Kentucky fans sure seem thin skinned! But while we're at it, Cal is hardly a model citizen.

Camby speaks for itself.

I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that.

Then you have Dozier and Rose. I won't put that all on Cal, but it happened on his watch and you can't ignore that when you consider all of the other questions surrounding Cal.

I think it's also strange that Cal would try to celebrate 500 wins with 2 vacated seasons. It reeks of either ignorance or arrogance. Which was it?

Anyone remember Dan Garcia as well? What a nice guy Cal is!

I would be shocked if it doesn't come out that Cal has more scandals. He just reeks of a slimy guy, my personal opinion.

I think Scrap hit pretty much all of these points head on (and he isn't even a UK fan). But i'll join.


I think hiring Dajuan Wagner's dad was questionable, though I'm sure UK fans will try to point to the fact that he was there after Wagner declared for the NBA. Hiring Tyreke Evans' strength coach was questionable too.

I can name coaches other than Cal who have done the same thing. Bill Self hired Mario Chalmers dad to a director of BBall operations job as well. Does that make him shady? When Chris Duhon played at Duke, his mother was given a job in Durham by a Duke supporter. I guess Coach K should have known about that.

My favorite though is Shabaka Lands, a U of L assistant who was hired by Pitino because of his connections to Marquis Teague (an Indiana native). When Teague chose to play at Kentucky over Louisville, Lands was relieved of his duties.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Cal recruiting CJ Henry, who's brother, Xavier, was a top SG prospect and committed to Memphis before Cal left for Kentucky.


I think Cal tried to pull a fast one with Kanter. The fact that he continued to maintain he was an amateur despite the benefits received prior solidified that

What the NCAA did with this ruling was ludicrous. Not so much because of what it did to UK (we made the FF without Kanter), but because the ruling is going against everything the NCAA says they want to promote, which is international talent. Kanter accepted money, but as Scrap said, the money that was accepted was put toward tuition and schooling so he could improve himself academically to play in the United States.

How do you think the Kanter ruling is going to affect international players coming to play collegiate sports in the US? European basketball is one of the shadiest businesses around where teams hold talented players for ransom for a high priced buyout. (Ricky Rubio) College would have likely been an alternative for some of these players, but I see the current "draft and stash" routine continuing.


The 500 win brouhaha is all on the NCAA and UK. There was no real celebration-- he received a game ball, it was announced in front of the home team fans after the game, and he went on with his typical after-game gig. There was no cake, no huge spectacle, none of that. That the NCAA "hammered" Kentucky for it, BTW, proves the point that Calipari couldn't get away with "being slimy"; if they'd send a seven-page letter on this, what would they actually do if he were guilty of serious allegations?

This is where I wish Kentucky would have told the NCAA to go to hell. What made it worse is that after the NCAA made a big deal about it, it was uncovered that San Diego State's head coach Steve Fisher celebrated a similar milestone without wins that had been vacated from his time at Michigan.

The NCAA grasps at straws when it comes to Cal and for good reason. Cal has been outspoken about how the NCAA needs either reform or done away with. Cal has even gone as far as to suggest the four "superconferences" with a football playoff that would allow for teams to pay student athletes.

[Razor Shines]

Well as for bball versus the sins of coaches, I'm seeing a 3 dependence and it gets ugly pretty fast when they aren't falling. Zeller isn't picking up the slack near enough.

I don't think that's it. They took 21 threes but 7 or 8 of those were in the last few minutes in desperation time. The problem was 13 turn overs in the first half and also letting Smith have the half of his life. The second half was ok.


They're tied for 241st in the nation in 3 pointers attempted per game at 16 per, only 1 more than Ohio St. They shoot it well but they don't rely on it. I don't know how else I can say it.

[fearofpopvol1]

I think Scrap hit pretty much all of these points head on (and he isn't even a UK fan). But i'll join.



I can name coaches other than Cal who have done the same thing. Bill Self hired Mario Chalmers dad to a director of BBall operations job as well. Does that make him shady? When Chris Duhon played at Duke, his mother was given a job in Durham by a Duke supporter. I guess Coach K should have known about that.

My favorite though is Shabaka Lands, a U of L assistant who was hired by Pitino because of his connections to Marquis Teague (an Indiana native). When Teague chose to play at Kentucky over Louisville, Lands was relieved of his duties.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Cal recruiting CJ Henry, who's brother, Xavier, was a top SG prospect and committed to Memphis before Cal left for Kentucky.



What the NCAA did with this ruling was ludicrous. Not so much because of what it did to UK (we made the FF without Kanter), but because the ruling is going against everything the NCAA says they want to promote, which is international talent. Kanter accepted money, but as Scrap said, the money that was accepted was put toward tuition and schooling so he could improve himself academically to play in the United States.

How do you think the Kanter ruling is going to affect international players coming to play collegiate sports in the US? European basketball is one of the shadiest businesses around where teams hold talented players for ransom for a high priced buyout. (Ricky Rubio) College would have likely been an alternative for some of these players, but I see the current "draft and stash" routine continuing.



This is where I wish Kentucky would have told the NCAA to go to hell. What made it worse is that after the NCAA made a big deal about it, it was uncovered that San Diego State's head coach Steve Fisher celebrated a similar milestone without wins that had been vacated from his time at Michigan.

The NCAA grasps at straws when it comes to Cal and for good reason. Cal has been outspoken about how the NCAA needs either reform or done away with. Cal has even gone as far as to suggest the four "superconferences" with a football playoff that would allow for teams to pay student athletes.

See my later post, which speaks further to Cal. Not sure why you didn't respond to that one instead as I feel like most of these things were covered there.

[traderumor]

I don't think that's it. They took 21 threes but 7 or 8 of those were in the last few minutes in desperation time. The problem was 13 Uturn overs in the first half and also letting Smith have the half of his life. The second half was ok.


They're tied for 241st in the nation in 3 pointers attempted per game at 16 per, only 1 more than Ohio St. They shoot it well but they don't rely on it. I don't know how else I can say it.You beg the question that reliance on treys is reflected by lots of attempts. It was demonstated today and Thursday by low percentage on threes and two losses. The high percentage on threes is what turns an ordinary team into a threat.

The second half looked better because they drained a few threes. And the Bucks had already done their heavy lifting.

But what do I know. I obviously don't have a clue.

[WMR]

I actually really have a great deal of affection for lots of IU fans on this site... sorry for the role I played in making this thread ugly for the past couple pages.

I think both fan bases should be pretty happy right now with what they have.

[WVRed]

This is a poor argument. I could go shoplift a pack of gum from the grocery store and not get caught. Does that mean I'm clean?

Funny you should mention that. Bob Knight has never been in trouble with the NCAA and had high graduation rates. Does that mean he is clean? Glass houses...



Did you read my post? It seems as if you did not. My issue was that Cal likely knew of the benefits, but even if he didn't, he still tried to defend Kanter as an amateur after. That's arrogance or ignorance right there.

Call it what you want, but I'll stick to what I said in the previous response:


What the NCAA did with this ruling was ludicrous. Not so much because of what it did to UK (we made the FF without Kanter), but because the ruling is going against everything the NCAA says they want to promote, which is international talent. Kanter accepted money, but as Scrap said, the money that was accepted was put toward tuition and schooling so he could improve himself academically to play in the United States.

How do you think the Kanter ruling is going to affect international players coming to play collegiate sports in the US? European basketball is one of the shadiest businesses around where teams hold talented players for ransom for a high priced buyout. (Ricky Rubio) College would have likely been an alternative for some of these players, but I see the current "draft and stash" routine continuing.


Show me a quote where Cal said he turned Camby in please. No prognostications or purported stories, I want a real quote from Cal.

Regardless, Calipari was the coach and Camby was under his tutelage. Calipari is responsible for Camby and his actions involving the sport of basketball, period.

Cal was a great supporter of his kids grades, including Camby too, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/20/sports/college-basketball-preview-umass-grapples-with-games-and-grades.html?pagewanted=all

What has Cal's graduation rate been for his career? How many of his players have been ins some sort of academic trouble? Do you know Scrap Irony?

Welcome to the world of Atlantic 10 (or even C-USA) basketball. In order to survive in college coaching, you have to take risks on talented athletes, some of which aren't so talented in the classroom. I'm sure you could dig up similar articles on other coaches.

That being said, before the fall semester, UK had twice posted 3.0+ GPA's since Cal came to Lexington. This past semesters GPA was actually down to 2.7, and that is the LOWEST it has been since Cal has been here.


Why did Cal bolt for the NBA when the investigation was underway? And why did he leave for Kentucky when there was fire in Memphis with Rose & Dozier? Cal reminds me of Pete Carroll. Cal was the coach when Rose allowed his brother to travel to the games for free and that is a violation. Are you claiming he had no knowledge of that? Then you have the test score scandal too. Cal is the coach, his players play for him. Did he ever speak out against the issues with Rose? If he did, I sure don't remember it.

I can't speak for the Camby situation, but the Derrick Rose scandal did not break until Cal was hired at Kentucky.


I can't harp too much since the NCAA has allowed it, but I certainly frown upon it as I think it's a shady practice. To the best of my knowledge, IU has never resorted to it.

Thats your opinion. It's a competitve advantage and UK is not the only other team that does it. See my previous response with Marquis Teague, Xavier Henry, Chris Duhon, and Mario Chalmers.

If anything its like oversigning in college football. You might not agree with it, but its legal, and its going to happen.


As I said before, did Cal forget how many wins he had? Did he forget about the vacated seasons? It's either arrogance or ignorance. He could have stopped the celebration or said something and he didn't.

Did you think maybe there is arrogance on behalf of the NCAA? You can say whatever you want about Cal, but the NCAA is one of the most corrupt and indefensible organizations in this country. They have made millions exploiting "student-athletes" and Cal has spoken out against the NCAA with the "superconference" concept which basically does away with the NCAA and pays athletes.

I think one thing that people can't stand about Cal outside of the cheating is how his teams are fast tracks to the NBA. Coaches such as Roy Williams and Coach K (with exceptions) have done more to hinder the development of freshmen players and kill their draft stock. Cal's dribble drive system allows freshmen to showcase their talents for the next level, and Cal is absolutely honest with them in whether or not they should return to college or leave. Imagine Coach K ripping up a kids scholarship to tell him he's ready for the NBA. Cal did that with Dajuan Wagner.

[Brutus]

My latest post deals with one of my absolute pet peeves of college athletics.

http://www.crimsoncast.com/2012/01/pre-game-meal-the-ohio-state-university-take-2/

That's you? Dude... I'm Kyle from Galen's Bracketology podcasts :D

[Razor Shines]

You beg the question that reliance on treys is reflected by lots of attempts. It was demonstated today and Thursday by low percentage on threes and two losses. The high percentage on threes is what turns an ordinary team into a threat.

The second half looked better because they drained a few threes. And the Bucks had already done their heavy lifting.

But what do I know. I obviously don't have a clue.

How many of IUs games have you watched? They only made 5 3s when they beat OSU in Bloomington. The second half was better because they didn't turn it over nearly as many times and while OSU had a strong shooting second half there wasnt anyone shooting like Smith did in the first half.

They haven't needed to shoot the 3 extremely well to win every game this season.


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[Razor Shines]

As for the coaches, the only time I've cared a great deal about NCAA violations was a when it was Sampson.


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[fearofpopvol1]

Funny you should mention that. Bob Knight has never been in trouble with the NCAA and had high graduation rates. Does that mean he is clean? Glass houses...

What does Bob Knight have to do with Cal?



Call it what you want, but I'll stick to what I said in the previous response:


Welcome to the world of Atlantic 10 (or even C-USA) basketball. In order to survive in college coaching, you have to take risks on talented athletes, some of which aren't so talented in the classroom. I'm sure you could dig up similar articles on other coaches.

That being said, before the fall semester, UK had twice posted 3.0+ GPA's since Cal came to Lexington. This past semesters GPA was actually down to 2.7, and that is the LOWEST it has been since Cal has been here.

What has Cal's graduation rate looked like with his players? How many players has he coached that have been ruled ineligible due to academics (both at UK and his other coaching jobs)? Why is it that a program like Duke has had plenty of success on the court and in the classroom? Do you think Cal puts winning on the court above the classroom? Or is it all about the $$?


I can't speak for the Camby situation, but the Derrick Rose scandal did not break until Cal was hired at Kentucky.

There's pretty good reason to believe that Cal knew what was coming (in both cases) and that's why he bolted. The investigation had already been underway quietly.

[WMR]

You know that Memphis offered Cal more money than Kentucky, right?

There was no reason for Cal to leave besides UK being his dream job.

His #1 recruiting class would have been intact (and actually a better class because he would have kept Xavier Henry).

[WMR]

None of our "one and done" players have hurt our APR, besides Orton who Cal did not even recruit.

Even the much attacked by other fan bases Eric Bledsoe would have been fully eligible for his sophomore season.

[redsfanmia]

Who really cares? Kentucky is the greatest basketball school and John Calipari has never done anything wrong ever. Lets get this thread back the topic of Hoosier basketball.

[fearofpopvol1]

You know that Memphis offered Cal more money than Kentucky, right?

There was no reason for Cal to leave besides UK being his dream job.

His #1 recruiting class would have been intact (and actually a better class because he would have kept Xavier Henry).

It's a good narrative, but the fact remains that Memphis was under fire for the scandals that took place on his watch. I'd say it's pretty likely he left Memphis before he had no job.

[redsfanmia]

It's a good narrative, but the fact remains that Memphis was under fire for the scandals that took place on his watch. I'd say it's pretty likely he left Memphis before he had no job.

Come on man....you know that Calipari has never been in trouble with the NCAA and his TWO vacated final four's had nothing to do with him. Let it die Kentucky fan will not be convinced just like we will never be convinced, let it go.

[WVRed]

What does Bob Knight have to do with Cal?

It's simple, don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. You want to go after Cal even though he was cleared by the NCAA. Bob Knight is also clean by NCAA standards. Doesn't make the system right.



What has Cal's graduation rate looked like with his players? How many players has he coached that have been ruled ineligible due to academics (both at UK and his other coaching jobs)? Why is it that a program like Duke has had plenty of success on the court and in the classroom? Do you think Cal puts winning on the court above the classroom? Or is it all about the $$?

If graduation rate is all you have, you're really grasping at straws. As for Duke, Duke is actually a pretty solid academic university, unlike UK which is a state flagship college. To play at Duke, you have to cut the grades, similar to Notre Dame.


There's pretty good reason to believe that Cal knew what was coming (in both cases) and that's why he bolted. The investigation had already been underway quietly.

That's an assumption and nothing factual.

Just seriously let it go. If anything comes up where Cal is actually proven guilty there is a UK thread that I am sure you and the other Ohio State, UC, etc fans will be there to discuss ad nauseum. I'm done debating in this thread regarding Cal.

[fearofpopvol1]

Come on man....you know that Calipari has never been in trouble with the NCAA and his TWO vacated final four's had nothing to do with him. Let it die Kentucky fan will not be convinced just like we will never be convinced, let it go.

There has been a lot of foul play with regard to players on his watch. We can agree to disagree on the accountability of a coach in those situations.

[fearofpopvol1]

It's simple, don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. You want to go after Cal even though he was cleared by the NCAA. Bob Knight is also clean by NCAA standards. Doesn't make the system right.

To me, it's an effort to try to point something that isn't relevant to the conversation. If I had brought up Knight, that would be one thing. Cal's actions have nothing to do with Knight's actions. Therefore, it's a moot point.


If graduation rate is all you have, you're really grasping at straws. As for Duke, Duke is actually a pretty solid academic university, unlike UK which is a state flagship college. To play at Duke, you have to cut the grades, similar to Notre Dame.

All of that I'm aware of. It didn't answer my original question(s).


That's an assumption and nothing factual.

He did it at UMASS, why wouldn't he have done it at Memphis? The timing sure was interesting.

[redsfanmia]

There has been a lot of foul play with regard to players on his watch. We can agree to disagree on the accountability of a coach in those situations.

You and I can agree, I just think the guy is just flat out dirty and eventually Kentucky will be on probation because of what he "didn't do" but most UK fans will never see that. Even if he did not "do any thing improper" he is the face of the program and he sets the tone thus meaning that he is at fault. But It's better to just let it die and move on.

[traderumor]

How many of IUs games have you watched? They only made 5 3s when they beat OSU in Bloomington. The second half was better because they didn't turn it over nearly as many times and while OSU had a strong shooting second half there wasnt anyone shooting like Smith did in the first half.

They haven't needed to shoot the 3 extremely well to win every game this season.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAbout 5 I think, more than any other team besides OSU. All I know is that someone posted 45% rate on 3s before this slide, I believe that it was in the 20s against Minny, then the first half OSU was some ugly shooting.

And I think the condescension is unnecessary.

[Razor Shines]

About 5 I think, more than any other team besides OSU. All I know is that someone posted 45% rate on 3s before this slide, I believe that it was in the 20s against Minny, then the first half OSU was some ugly shooting.

And I think the condescension is unnecessary.

I still think that those losses has more to do with the high turn over rate than the 3pt shooting. Good outside shooting would have helped over come the poor play in other areas but if they had played like they are capable good 3pt shooting isn't a must for then to win.


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[Razor Shines]

Oh and where was I condescending? I honestly wanted to know how many of IUs games you've watched. Seems like a fair question. I've only seen 4 or 5 OSU games and I don't think I would know more than you about their deficiencies.

Not that you can't comment on IUs deficiencies, by all means continue to comment, I just wanted to know what kind of a sample size I was getting from you.


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[gilpdawg]

This team will never get through the glass ceiling unless they can learn to guard somebody. Bottom line. Hopefully Yogi can play D, because none of our guards can guard anybody right now.

VJIII has been horrible since the Michigan game and Hulls is useless unless he's sticking threes. All that said, I think 9-9 or 10-8 is a very realistic goal for the Big Ten, and being how the Big 10 is a buzzsaw this year, that's probably worth a 3-5 range seed depending on how many wins they can get in the BT Tourney. 9-9 in conference (with that oddball non-conference game vs. Carolina Central) gets us to 22-9 going into that BT Tourney.

If you had told me at the start of the season that 20-24 wins were in the cards I would have asked you what drugs you were on, so I'll take that and be happy. Anything more than that is gravy for this year. Next few years are going to be fun but no matter what, this will go down as one of my favorite Hoosier teams ever, because of the way they've exceeded all expectations.

[Hoosier Red]

This team will never get through the glass ceiling unless they can learn to guard somebody. Bottom line. Hopefully Yogi can play D, because none of our guards can guard anybody right now.

VJIII has been horrible since the Michigan game and Hulls is useless unless he's sticking threes. All that said, I think 9-9 or 10-8 is a very realistic goal for the Big Ten, and being how the Big 10 is a buzzsaw this year, that's probably worth a 3-5 range seed depending on how many wins they can get in the BT Tourney. 9-9 in conference (with that oddball non-conference game vs. Carolina Central) gets us to 22-9 going into that BT Tourney.

If you had told me at the start of the season that 20-24 wins were in the cards I would have asked you what drugs you were on, so I'll take that and be happy. Anything more than that is gravy for this year. Next few years are going to be fun but no matter what, this will go down as one of my favorite Hoosier teams ever, because of the way they've exceeded all expectations.

I also think the difficult stretch to start the season has colored some people's views. If IU had lost to OSU at home and beat Minnesota, we'd be talking about how the schedule opens up here and we can get some wins against inferior opponents.

I saw on Twitter that Pomeroy has only one game the rest of the season where IU is an underdog. I don't see IU going 11-1, but I don't think 9-3 or 8-4 are out of expectations.

[traderumor]

Oh and where was I condescending? I honestly wanted to know how many of IUs games you've watched. Seems like a fair question. I've only seen 4 or 5 OSU games and I don't think I would know more than you about their deficiencies.

Not that you can't comment on IUs deficiencies, by all means continue to comment, I just wanted to know what kind of a sample size I was getting from you.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWell, two different times actually. Once when you mocked the idea that I might have some good general knowledge of college basketball and noticed a few trends and seen a few things from closely observing the game over the last 40 years. The other you just addressed, insinuating that my viewpoint is less valid because I haven't watched as many games as you have. And by gosh, you went and looked up the ranking on three point attempts, so how many games have you actually watched, tr? Sorry if it wasn't meant offensive, but that was my reading of the comment.

I've found that I can actually make a keen observation or two even if I haven't watched all of a team's games. This stuff isn't rocket science.

I've also found that fans can get so wrapped up in the details of their team from watching them every game that they "can't see the forest from the trees."

[Playadlc]

@Nebraska Wednesday is an incredibly crucial game. We need a win badly. If we slip up here, I think it will show that this team's confidence is shot.

Anything other than a 17-3 record after this week (sounds silly) will be a disappointment.

[Hoosier Red]

@Nebraska Wednesday is an incredibly crucial game. We need a win badly. If we slip up here, I think it will show that this team's confidence is shot.

Anything other than a 17-3 record after this week (sounds silly) will be a disappointment.

Agreed. Even with the slip up against Minnesota, this team has passed every test of "NOT LAST THREE YEARS" but if they were to lose to Nebraska, it shows that this team is still capable of prolonged stretches with no confidence.

[dabvu2498]

I'm closing this one down and you good Hoosier fans have reached the 1000 post milestone.

Please start a new thread.