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Cyclone792
11-23-2009, 07:46 PM
UC has looked solid in the first half. A few obvious mistakes, but overall lots of intensity, dominance on the glass, pressure defense and better offensive sets (at least early in the first half).

I hope they come out in the second half and keep all the good things going.

GIDP
11-23-2009, 07:56 PM
Lets see what they do with Vaughn able to paly

Redlegs23
11-23-2009, 08:08 PM
100 times more hustle than they have showed so far this season. Loving it!

Cyclone792
11-23-2009, 08:55 PM
Excellent win! I really loved the defensive performance tonight contesting shots and making it difficult for Vandy to get anything going offensively.

We'll get Maryland tomorrow night so hopefully they keep it together.

BearcatShane
11-23-2009, 08:56 PM
Excellent win! I really loved the defensive performance tonight contesting shots and making it difficult for Vandy to get anything going offensively.

We'll get Maryland tomorrow night so hopefully they keep it together.

Could get top 25 wins on consecutive days.

paintmered
11-23-2009, 09:23 PM
It was men amongst boys on the glass today and the Cats kept up the intensity for the full 40 minutes. With that much depth, there's no excuse for any lack of intensity. Good win, and let's get another one tomorrow!

Redlegs23
11-23-2009, 09:32 PM
Big win for the Cats! This team is deep and talented...and still pretty young.

DTCromer
11-24-2009, 08:50 AM
Mehh, not TOO impressed with the win. They won on pure athleticism today. Their offensive sets were mediocre and just outhustled and outjumped Vandy today. Don't get me wrong, it's a good quality win, but I think we caught Vandy on an off day.

Still, I'm happy with the W.

bucksfan2
11-24-2009, 09:25 AM
Mehh, not TOO impressed with the win. They won on pure athleticism today. Their offensive sets were mediocre and just outhustled and outjumped Vandy today. Don't get me wrong, it's a good quality win, but I think we caught Vandy on an off day.

Still, I'm happy with the W.

You will win a lot of games if you outhustle and outjump your opponent. In the years past under Cronin they wouldn't win in these categories, now they are, which is a good thing.

Some observations from watching the 2nd half.

-Loved the defensive intensity. They played hard and aggressive D. If the refs had swallowed the whistle a little bit and let the teams play it would have been nicer.

-Mick finally has a team that can play physical, Big East basketball.

-Born Ready has great basketball instincts.

-Where is the blazing speed of Wright? He needs to improve his PG play, right now he just isn't that good.

-The offensive sets were poor. The ball movement was poor at times.

-Early season basketball is poor in general. The players aren't ready to play basketball at a high level yet. The footwork is off, too much reaching and not moving your feet, bad ball movement.

-Born Ready isn't ready yet. He is way too raw right now. I expect him to get better, but I just don't know how good he will be come Jan and Feb.

SeeinRed
11-24-2009, 09:30 AM
Mehh, not TOO impressed with the win. They won on pure athleticism today. Their offensive sets were mediocre and just outhustled and outjumped Vandy today. Don't get me wrong, it's a good quality win, but I think we caught Vandy on an off day.

Still, I'm happy with the W.


Its still early in the season, but it could be argued that the Cats D really threw Vandy off its game. Its hard to tell what to contribute the Vandy loss to, but Vandy was frustrated by the Bearcats defenders all evening. Not saying Vandy had their A game, but playing a little bit of devils advocate. Either way, A nice early season win for UC.

DTCromer
11-24-2009, 09:35 AM
Its still early in the season, but it could be argued that the Cats D really threw Vandy off its game. Its hard to tell what to contribute the Vandy loss to, but Vandy was frustrated by the Bearcats defenders all evening. Not saying Vandy had their A game, but playing a little bit of devils advocate. Either way, A nice early season win for UC.

I'm not denigrating this win in anyway. I'm just saying that UC seemed much more fresh and active than Vandy and it's the main reason they won. THe hustle is something nice to see out of Mick's teams. I enjoyed watching the game.

SeeinRed
11-24-2009, 10:03 AM
-Born Ready isn't ready yet. He is way too raw right now. I expect him to get better, but I just don't know how good he will be come Jan and Feb.


They were talking about that at halftime on ESPN. Maybe Mick can convince him to stay around for a couple more seasons to make him a better player.;)

In all seriousness, I think Mick knew Stephenson would be this rough coming out of the gate. Mick keeps saying Stephenson isn't necessarily a one and done player like many believed. We'll see how the season progresses, but you can see a lot of raw ability in the kid's game for sure. I agree 100% with your observations.

bucksfan2
11-24-2009, 10:32 AM
They were talking about that at halftime on ESPN. Maybe Mick can convince him to stay around for a couple more seasons to make him a better player.;)

In all seriousness, I think Mick knew Stephenson would be this rough coming out of the gate. Mick keeps saying Stephenson isn't necessarily a one and done player like many believed. We'll see how the season progresses, but you can see a lot of raw ability in the kid's game for sure. I agree 100% with your observations.

I am somewhat surprised that Mick decided to take a chance on Stephenson. Stephenson is the type of player you add when you are 1 player away. Any one and done player should be that, you add them when you are close because there is too much coddling that needs to be done. But as you say maybe Mick knew that Stephenson would be a 2 year player. I haven't watch much basketball yet this season, but Stephenson doesn't have that "wow" factor. He doesn't step on the court and you think, man is that guy good. He also isn't a 7 footer which would make him a 1st round pick almost automatically.

I will be very interested to see how Mick handles him. Last year Mick had troubles handling Gates. He had to coddle him early because he was an important recruit for this area. I remember hearing rumors that Gates was unhappy with his benching and had a sit down meeting with Cronin and his dad. It took him about half the season but he finally was able to coach Gates. I will be interesting to see how accepting Stephenson will be to tough love and tough coaching.

acredsfan
11-24-2009, 12:27 PM
Last night was the first game I got to watch on tv this year, and I am very impressed with how the team looks physically. Mick focused on strength and endurance during the offseason and it shows.

This team will go as far as their defense carries them. They need to just stay focused and not allow offensive struggles to mess with them. They did a great job with focusing the entire game last night, but they have some key young players, so that could change.

Reds4Life
11-24-2009, 01:27 PM
-Born Ready isn't ready yet. He is way too raw right now. I expect him to get better, but I just don't know how good he will be come Jan and Feb.

It's a confidence issue. He's a freshman with 3 games expierence. In the game last night he was starting to show flashes of feeling more comfortable out there. Once he gets used to the games, he will breakout. I think by January you'll see him taking over games, he has the talent to do it.

BearcatShane
11-24-2009, 07:18 PM
I am somewhat surprised that Mick decided to take a chance on Stephenson. Stephenson is the type of player you add when you are 1 player away. Any one and done player should be that, you add them when you are close because there is too much coddling that needs to be done. But as you say maybe Mick knew that Stephenson would be a 2 year player. I haven't watch much basketball yet this season, but Stephenson doesn't have that "wow" factor. He doesn't step on the court and you think, man is that guy good. He also isn't a 7 footer which would make him a 1st round pick almost automatically.

I will be very interested to see how Mick handles him. Last year Mick had troubles handling Gates. He had to coddle him early because he was an important recruit for this area. I remember hearing rumors that Gates was unhappy with his benching and had a sit down meeting with Cronin and his dad. It took him about half the season but he finally was able to coach Gates. I will be interesting to see how accepting Stephenson will be to tough love and tough coaching.



Maybe Lance is the one player UC needs to make the tourney. Maybe that keeps Mick the head coach at UC. Lance will score 30 a few times this year. Needs to take it to the rack more. He'll learn.

Cyclone792
11-24-2009, 10:14 PM
Ho hum, just another big victory against another ranked team, the second in two days.

Great win beating Maryland! The Cats can win Maui tomorrow night at 10pm on ESPN against the Gonzaga/Wisconsin winner tonight.

GIDP
11-24-2009, 10:23 PM
cats in top 25 next week?

DoogMinAmo
11-24-2009, 10:24 PM
cats in top 25 next week?

They win tomorrow, yes.

GIDP
11-25-2009, 10:33 AM
They win tomorrow, yes.

Even if they lose how many teams can win back to back games over top 25 teams and not break into the top 25? If they win today they should be in the top 20.

SeeinRed
11-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Even if they lose how many teams can win back to back games over top 25 teams and not break into the top 25? If they win today they should be in the top 20.


Later in the season, I could see that possibly, but the rankings are not that reliable right now. There haven't been enough games to evaluate teams and who knows if Vandy or Maryland are even close to the top 25 a month or two from now. I think they get looked over if they lose today and if they win just sneak into the top 25. There is a lot of basketball left to play.

Redlegs23
11-25-2009, 01:46 PM
Later in the season, I could see that possibly, but the rankings are not that reliable right now. There haven't been enough games to evaluate teams and who knows if Vandy or Maryland are even close to the top 25 a month or two from now. I think they get looked over if they lose today and if they win just sneak into the top 25. There is a lot of basketball left to play.

Well Vandy and Maryland will be dropping out of the poll this week, so who do you replace them with? My guess is the team that beat both of them pretty handily. Even if UC loses tonight, assuming they don't get blown out I expect them to be in the polls, along with Gonzaga if the Zags win tonight.

Cyclone792
11-25-2009, 04:20 PM
The Big East is 58-5 so far this season and crushing every other conference in overall conference RPI.

LoganBuck
11-25-2009, 05:49 PM
Will Chuck get tossed tonight? His streak of 197 games without being ejected is on the line. The last time he got tossed was against Gonzaga.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:07 AM
Bearcats are playing rugged defense again holding the Zags to 19 points in the first half.
UC leads 23-19 at the break.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:09 AM
Is UC going to be a pressing team this season? I haven't noticed them doing that at all in Maui. Is it too soon in the season to tip your hand on that kind of strategy?

dougdirt
11-26-2009, 12:18 AM
ESPN should have gone to the game in Cincinnati. The game came on with just over 11 minutes left in the first half so Cincinnati could finish watching Orlando and Miami play in the NBA.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:30 AM
ESPN should have gone to the game in Cincinnati. The game came on with just over 11 minutes left in the first half so Cincinnati could finish watching Orlando and Miami play in the NBA.

I think someone messed up. Same thing happened in Houston. At times when Game A runs long they will start showing Game B on one of the ESPN alternate channels. Down here they had the Miami/Orlando game going on both. Oops.

Bearcats up 10 with 13 minutes to go.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:33 AM
If I heard right Gonzaga will be shooting the double bonus on the next Bearcat foul with about 12 minutes to go. Yikes.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:36 AM
With 11:57 to go in the second half the Bearcats have shot a total of one (1) free throw.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 12:57 AM
Game tied at 53 with about 2 minutes to go. Bearcat basketball.

NatiRedGals
11-26-2009, 12:58 AM
wow.. What a game.. Hearts pounding!

dougdirt
11-26-2009, 12:58 AM
Game now tied, just over 2 minutes left. It will be huge if UC can pull this one out, but either way they played very well on this trip. Just gotta win by 1 from this point forward. Make it happen!

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:01 AM
Stephenson with a very nice drive from the free throw line. Bearcats then get a stop. They are up by 2 and have the ball with 1:08 remaining. Stephenson misses on a deep 3. Zags ball with 39 seconds to go. Bearcats clinging to a slim two-point margin.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:07 AM
Zags score to tie. Bearcats try for a last second lob from Stephenson to Gates and it is no good. Gates was "clearly fouled" according to Jay Bilas but no call. On replay it seems evident there was a foul. Overtime awaits us. Zags shot 17 FTs to the Bearcats 4 in regulation. Free basketball, people.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:14 AM
Halfway through OT Gonzaga up 59-57. UC has the ball. UC has made only 2 of 7 free throws so far in overtime. =(

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:30 AM
Bearcats come up two points short. Cashmere Wright misses a tough layup at the end. This has to be considered an excellent tournament for the Bearcats though. Congratulations.

GIDP
11-26-2009, 01:31 AM
UC looks to be at least decent so far this year but they do a terrible job at working the ball inside. They continue to shoot so many dumb 3 pointers.

NatiRedGals
11-26-2009, 01:35 AM
trust me i know i was surprised we didnt take one at the end lol

Reds4Life
11-26-2009, 01:45 AM
Lopsided foul calling in this one. A lot of no calls on Gonzaga, and lots of ticky tack calls on UC. Gonzaga had 23 free throw attempts, only 11 for UC. I think everyone in the gym was rooting for Gonzaga, feels like UC might have gotten homered a little bit on the foul situation.

The last play of regulation, Gates was fouled, Stevie Wonder could have seen that one. Bilas said it as well on TV, blatent foul. But no call........not a suprise in this game.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:47 AM
This team has a chance to be very good. Stephenson is a freshman and should continue to improve. Cashmere Wright is basically a freshman coming off a year-long layoff and should improve. Gates is only a sophomore. And in early December the 'Cats get Ibrahima Thomas on to the court. What happened to Sean Kilpatrick? Is he hurt? Is he redshirting?

I think both Wright and Stephenson will probably do more penetrating as the season progresses. I am encouraged so far.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 01:49 AM
Lopsided foul calling in this one. A lot of no calls on Gonzaga, and lots of ticky tack calls on UC. Gonzaga had 23 free throw attempts, only 11 for UC. I think everyone in the gym was rooting for Gonzaga, feels like UC might have gotten homered a little bit on the foul situation.

The last play of regulation, Gates was fouled, Stevie Wonder could have seen that one. Bilas said it as well on TV, blatent foul. But no call........not a suprise in this game.

I would agree with just about everything here. Gates should have been on the line with two free throw attempts to win the game in regulation. There is not much question about that. Of course the Bearcats only hit 2 of 7 Fts in the overtime period. They hit their freebies and they more than likely are hoisting that championship trophy.

Brutus
11-26-2009, 04:48 AM
Lopsided foul calling in this one. A lot of no calls on Gonzaga, and lots of ticky tack calls on UC. Gonzaga had 23 free throw attempts, only 11 for UC. I think everyone in the gym was rooting for Gonzaga, feels like UC might have gotten homered a little bit on the foul situation.

The last play of regulation, Gates was fouled, Stevie Wonder could have seen that one. Bilas said it as well on TV, blatent foul. But no call........not a suprise in this game.

It was lopsided, but that's partially Cincinnati's fault.

The Bearcats attempted 31 3-pointers. Gonzaga shot 15 3-pointers. When you shoot more than twice as much as your opponent from outside, there is a pretty good chance you will get whistled for several more fouls (unless you're Duke).

Quite honestly, I thought the lob to Gates was a good no-call. The defender got ball before he hit his arm. Generally, when two players are going up in the air like that, officials will not call that a foul if you get the ball before you make contact. It certainly would not have been egregious if it were called, but I actually thought it was better left as is.

GIDP
11-26-2009, 09:47 AM
Gates probably should have been at the line but maybe the refs just thought that Stevenson was shooting a 3. :P

acredsfan
11-26-2009, 11:33 AM
It was lopsided, but that's partially Cincinnati's fault.

The Bearcats attempted 31 3-pointers. Gonzaga shot 15 3-pointers. When you shoot more than twice as much as your opponent from outside, there is a pretty good chance you will get whistled for several more fouls (unless you're Duke).

Quite honestly, I thought the lob to Gates was a good no-call. The defender got ball before he hit his arm. Generally, when two players are going up in the air like that, officials will not call that a foul if you get the ball before you make contact. It certainly would not have been egregious if it were called, but I actually thought it was better left as is.I have to disagree on the no call, if it was body contact that is one thing, but he slapped his arm making it impossible for him to make the shot. UC got called for a lot of reach in fouls that seemed to not be called on Gonzaga.

Even though the fouls seemed to be lopsided, UC should have won that game. When they switched to a zone defense, they lost thier edge. They must have gotten fatigued, but it was a great showing for them over the last 3 days and it makes me excited for this year.

texasdave
11-26-2009, 06:51 PM
It seemed to be a pretty clear foul to me. And Jay Bilas agreed. Not that he is omniscient or anything. But since he was sitting courtside and has seen a basketball game or two, I have to believe he knows of what he speaks. It is immaterial now. Still, all things considered, an excellent showing from Mick's ballers out in Maui.

NatiRedGals
11-26-2009, 08:10 PM
It seemed to be a pretty clear foul to me. And Jay Bilas agreed. Not that he is omniscient or anything. But since he was sitting courtside and has seen a basketball game or two, I have to believe he knows of what he speaks. It is immaterial now. Still, all things considered, an excellent showing from Mick's ballers out in Maui.

Yep! One good thing about college basketball is 1 loss or maybe even 2 depending on who you play and where the loss comes from don't really matter and don't get in your way of a chance to play for the national title. This tourny will go along way in showing our players what to do and what not to do. Hopefully we go back and look at how many 3's we shot and we lost. and go look at what we did in the games we won.

Matt700wlw
11-26-2009, 11:26 PM
It's bummer that the Cats lost, but I think this team can be good. They finally have some depth, and talented depth.

With 2 wins over top 25 teams this week, despite the loss, I hope they're ranked next week.

GIDP
11-26-2009, 11:38 PM
Yancy Gates reminds me of Danny Fortson a little.

Roy Tucker
11-27-2009, 09:11 AM
I think playing 3 games in 3 days caught up to the Bearcats. Great defensive intensity the first half, but they wore down in the second half and were running on fumes in OT.

I think UC fans have a lot to look forward to. A young team, so they'll have some bumps and bobbles, but a promising looking season. They really do have to stop jacking up so many 3 pointers though. Them not working the ball inside was the biggest reason for the FT discrepancy.

SeeinRed
11-27-2009, 10:33 AM
After having a day or so and a good meal to take it all in, I am really excited to see how UC does in the BE. The Maui Invitational was quite a test for them and tells a lot about the team. Its a big grind to play 3 games in 3 days where the time zone issue is even larger. UC plays a nasty style of defense that just grinds you down. They are lacking on the offensive end at times, but I have confidence in Mick to straighten that out over time. They have the offensive talent for sure. They seem to be able to play the physical style that is necessary for success in the BE and have the depth also. Very good showing for the Bearcats even with the loss to the Zags.

GIDP
11-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Well they made the top 25 :)

bucksfan2
11-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Well they made the top 25 :)

:thumbup: Maybe a little premature but well deserved none the less.

Sea Ray
12-01-2009, 06:49 PM
Quite honestly, I thought the lob to Gates was a good no-call. The defender got ball before he hit his arm. Generally, when two players are going up in the air like that, officials will not call that a foul if you get the ball before you make contact. It certainly would not have been egregious if it were called, but I actually thought it was better left as is.


I don't know what he touched first but the ball wasn't knocked loose until Gates' arm got hacked. If you allow hacks like that just because there's a few secs left then throw out the rule book at the end of regulation. UC made a great play to get Gates the ball and then they were denied the chance to capitalize because of this no call.

paintmered
12-01-2009, 09:59 PM
UC currently in a 72-38 nail biter with 9:35 to go in the game against Texas Southern.

texasdave
12-01-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't know what he touched first but the ball wasn't knocked loose until Gates' arm got hacked. If you allow hacks like that just because there's a few secs left then throw out the rule book at the end of regulation. UC made a great play to get Gates the ball and then they were denied the chance to capitalize because of this no call.

If the rule is touch the ball first and any contact thereafter is not a foul then you will have chaos on the court. It was a foul.

SeeinRed
12-01-2009, 11:02 PM
Bishop had another solid game and Stephenson put forth a very solid effort. I really like the way this team is constructed. Stephenson will only get better and the team doesn't need one person to carry them. They actually seem to play very well as a team. Texas Southern isn't the best opponent, but you have to love how UC played the game tonight.

Boss-Hog
12-01-2009, 11:49 PM
Where was Larry Davis tonight?

Redlegs23
12-02-2009, 12:18 AM
Where was Larry Davis tonight?

He had the flu and was in street clothes on the bench.

bucksfan2
12-02-2009, 09:31 AM
UC played pretty well, but they should have. Texas Southern didn't have the horses to play with UC and UC dominated them.

I was impressed with Stephenson. He plays well, still is a little raw, but you can see that talent.

I am a little disappointed with Wright. Not as quick as I thought he would be. I have never seen a guy get into the lane as much as him without a clue as how to put the ball in the hole.

Mick missed a great coaching opportunity. In the second half of the game the Cats got sloppy. He let them keep playing instead of yanking all 5 players.

Gates is a beast.

Dixon is becoming my favorite UC player.

paintmered
12-02-2009, 09:45 AM
UC played pretty well, but they should have. Texas Southern didn't have the horses to play with UC and UC dominated them.

I was impressed with Stephenson. He plays well, still is a little raw, but you can see that talent.

I am a little disappointed with Wright. Not as quick as I thought he would be. I have never seen a guy get into the lane as much as him without a clue as how to put the ball in the hole.

Mick missed a great coaching opportunity. In the second half of the game the Cats got sloppy. He let them keep playing instead of yanking all 5 players.

Gates is a beast.

Dixon is becoming my favorite UC player.

The TV announcers went out of their way to defend Cashmere last night. Apparently they had been reading the message board criticisms of him. Basically their main point was, "the kid missed an entire year, it's going to take a few months for him to return to form." It's a valid point, but on a team where he's getting outplayed by the back-up, he can't live on that excuse for much longer or he'll be riding the pine for 28 minutes a game.

I also love Dion Dixon's intensity. The guy goes 100% every minute he's on the floor and sometimes finds himself out of control because of it. He'll learn to channel the energy more effectively as time goes on.

I'm really interested to see the dynamic Ibrahim Thomas will bring to the team. I can see the Cats facing a lot of zone this year because teams will be very willing to let them chuck threes all day. A player with height who can hit the midrange jumper might just be what the doctor ordered.

Reds4Life
12-02-2009, 10:22 AM
The TV announcers went out of their way to defend Cashmere last night. Apparently they had been reading the message board criticisms of him. Basically their main point was, "the kid missed an entire year, it's going to take a few months for him to return to form." It's a valid point, but on a team where he's getting outplayed by the back-up, he can't live on that excuse for much longer or he'll be riding the pine for 28 minutes a game.

I also love Dion Dixon's intensity. The guy goes 100% every minute he's on the floor and sometimes finds himself out of control because of it. He'll learn to channel the energy more effectively as time goes on.

I'm really interested to see the dynamic Ibrahim Thomas will bring to the team. I can see the Cats facing a lot of zone this year because teams will be very willing to let them chuck threes all day. A player with height who can hit the midrange jumper might just be what the doctor ordered.

Yes, he had a year off, but there hasn't been any improvement in his game. He can't finish near the rim, or even come close to it, lots of bad passes and poor decisions. If you point guard is doing that......well you get the idea.

Vaughn, Dixon or even Lance could play some PG.

bucksfan2
12-02-2009, 10:27 AM
The TV announcers went out of their way to defend Cashmere last night. Apparently they had been reading the message board criticisms of him. Basically their main point was, "the kid missed an entire year, it's going to take a few months for him to return to form." It's a valid point, but on a team where he's getting outplayed by the back-up, he can't live on that excuse for much longer or he'll be riding the pine for 28 minutes a game.

I do get that. But I also think that some of it is an excuse. Don't get me wrong I can imagine the amount of time and effort it takes to come back from an injury. But Cashmere has been playing basketball for quite a while now after surgery and rehab. Granted summer leagues and practices aren't college games, but I thought there would be more explosiveness. He should start to finish on his drives more as he gets more experiences. His defense should come along, or better come along, as he plays more. I do agree with the announcers that it takes time getting used to big time college basketball.

What troubles me a little bit is first step explosiveness. Is that gone or is he being too timid. To me that quickness is always there, it doesn't matter if you are rusty or not. Also I am a little disappointed in his PG play in general. He doesn't strike me as a true PG. It is very difficult to learn how to become a true PG when you get to college.

GIDP
12-02-2009, 10:43 AM
Stephenson seems like a guy who could be selfish but tries too hard not to be at times.

Reds4Life
12-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Stephenson seems like a guy who could be selfish but tries too hard not to be at times.

Yes, I've noticed it. There are times when he's looking to pass when he should be taking it to the rim. I think he fears being labeled as a selfish player. It's not that big of a deal, IMO. Hopefully Mick tells him if he's got a chance to attack the basket, do it.

DTCromer
12-02-2009, 12:25 PM
Stephenson seems like a guy who could be selfish but tries too hard not to be at times.

I didn't see the game last night, but I can see that. He has been labeled a selfish player already so he's consciously looking to pass around. It's all part of his maturation into a great basketball player. I trust that Mick will get through to him.

GIDP
12-02-2009, 12:38 PM
Yes, I've noticed it. There are times when he's looking to pass when he should be taking it to the rim. I think he fears being labeled as a selfish player. It's not that big of a deal, IMO. Hopefully Mick tells him if he's got a chance to attack the basket, do it.

Yea it seems like hes fighting something and holding it back for some reason. Its hard not to see his talent when he does drive the hole though. He got really good hands.

Reds4Life
12-02-2009, 12:51 PM
I didn't see the game last night, but I can see that. He has been labeled a selfish player already so he's consciously looking to pass around. It's all part of his maturation into a great basketball player. I trust that Mick will get through to him.

He's got the talent to take over games and be a monster. I think soon he's going to start doing just that. He's quick for a kid his size, and can beat the defense on just about anybody. His skills are good enough I think he could could play some point guard to, he's an excellent passer. I think he had 11 or 12 assists last night.

Cyclone792
12-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Now that the shootout is over and the Cats have racked up two painful losses, UC heads to Birmingham to take on UAB tomorrow night. This is their last chance to put up a decent non-conference win, and if so then UC will have gone 3-2 in their five solid non-conference games. If the Cats regroup and play well, they should be able to pull out the victory.

GIDP
12-15-2009, 10:39 AM
Seriously its hard for a team to lose 2 games like they did this year. 2 over time losses just dont happen often.

GIDP
12-19-2009, 05:03 PM
Decent performance today by the Cats. Lance Stevenson continues to improve as well as Thomas.

texasdave
12-19-2009, 05:51 PM
Yancy Gates only played 4 minutes and took no shots. I wonder what he did to get into Mick's doghouse? Will someone tell Deonta Vaughn that the season has started?

GIDP
12-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Vaughn seems out of place right now. After 3 years of him being the only guy on the team worth anything it's like he lost any ability to play his normal position.

Redlegs23
12-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Yancy Gates only played 4 minutes and took no shots. I wonder what he did to get into Mick's doghouse? Will someone tell Deonta Vaughn that the season has started?

Lack of effort per Cronin. I couldn't agree more. Watching someone with that body and incredibly physically gifted give little effort and show no emotion is frustrating.

Reds4Life
12-19-2009, 08:53 PM
Yancy Gates only played 4 minutes and took no shots. I wonder what he did to get into Mick's doghouse? Will someone tell Deonta Vaughn that the season has started?

He's the laziest big man I've ever seen. He does nothing to get position in the paint at all, and makes no effort on offense to attack the basket.

If I were Mick, I'd sit him for the next game, he'd be playing 0 minutes.

Cyclone792
12-23-2009, 12:05 AM
Tonight's game against Winthrop was a microcosm of the season. The Cats started out strong, especially offensively with some very nice execution. Then they got sloppy, lazy and let Winthrop cut the lead down to single digits. Finally with about five minutes to play they kicked it back into gear - Vaughn hit a few nice shots - and pulled away with ease.

The big time games start next Wednesday night though; Connecticut awaits.

SeeinRed
12-23-2009, 09:30 AM
Tonight's game against Winthrop was a microcosm of the season. The Cats started out strong, especially offensively with some very nice execution. Then they got sloppy, lazy and let Winthrop cut the lead down to single digits. Finally with about five minutes to play they kicked it back into gear - Vaughn hit a few nice shots - and pulled away with ease.

The big time games start next Wednesday night though; Connecticut awaits.


Who is this Vaughn fellow, is he new? :D

In all seriousness, hopefully he has found his shot because that could be huge for the Bearcats. I was really excited watching the first half, but you have to worry about the lack of intrest in the second half. Sure there were a lot of factors playing into it, but you can't have any lapses in conference play.

The one thing that stood out to me in the first half and when Vaughn hit those threes was the movement on offense. Not just the ball movement but it seemed to really be the first time that you saw a lot of player movement and actual offensive plays executed instead of watching one guy try to make something.

Redlegs23
12-23-2009, 10:04 AM
The one thing that stood out to me in the first half and when Vaughn hit those threes was the movement on offense. Not just the ball movement but it seemed to really be the first time that you saw a lot of player movement and actual offensive plays executed instead of watching one guy try to make something.

I noticed that too. They were actually running an offense and offensive sets. I even saw them in the flex at one point during the game. Definitely something I liked and want to see more of.

bucksfan2
12-23-2009, 01:15 PM
He's the laziest big man I've ever seen. He does nothing to get position in the paint at all, and makes no effort on offense to attack the basket.

If I were Mick, I'd sit him for the next game, he'd be playing 0 minutes.

There is absolutely no reason that Gates shouldn't get a double double in every single game. Honestly he has the ability to become one of the better post players in the country. I think some has to do with his lack of fundamentals, some has to do with his lack of effort, and some has to do with a poor offensive scheme. The ball should go through Gates on every possession. Too many times there is poor off ball movement as well as poor ball movement. Gates often doesn't work hard enough to establish position. This team has the talent to be a top 15 team in the country, it all depends on who shows up on a given day.

GIDP
12-23-2009, 01:23 PM
I agree about Gates other than that the ball should go through him.

Stephenson is the guy I want having the ball and trying to score every time down the court. He just creates so much more than Gates can imo.

SeeinRed
12-24-2009, 08:52 AM
I agree about Gates other than that the ball should go through him.

Stephenson is the guy I want having the ball and trying to score every time down the court. He just creates so much more than Gates can imo.

I would like to see Stephenson run the point, and I'd like to see Gates get a touch on a good majority of offensive sets. He doesn't have to score every time, but it would open things up a lot more on the peremiter. Thats what you saw in the first half against Winthrop.

Reds4Life
12-30-2009, 10:16 PM
UC defeats #10 UConn, 71-69.

texasdave
12-30-2009, 10:17 PM
Nice win for UC to start off Big East play as they beat # 10 ranked UConn 71-69. Lance Stephenson hits two free throws with less than a second to play as the Bearcats hold off the Huskies. Deonta Vaughn shows signs of waking with 17 points.

Matt700wlw
12-30-2009, 10:57 PM
Great start! 1 down, and 1 to go for UC this weekend :)

BearcatShane
01-03-2010, 12:26 AM
UC beat Rutgers tonight to improve to 10-3 and 2-0 in the league. Next up is Pitt at the Shoe. Huge game.

paintmered
01-03-2010, 12:37 AM
BTW, Pitt handed "Cuse their first loss at the Carrier Dome earlier today. I guess there's still a little talent left on that team not in the NBA.

gilpdawg
01-05-2010, 07:36 AM
Pitt beat UC. I can't figure Pitt out. This is a team that got dominated by a bad Indiana team, but beat UConn.

Cyclone792
01-05-2010, 09:18 AM
I thought UC played fairly well last night until their last few offensive sets, but Pitt also played well too. The game was pretty much even throughout and could have gone either way, but unfortunately UC just didn't execute down the stretch and had to settle for some poor shots. Hopefully that's not one of those games that haunts us once it comes tourney selection time.

SeeinRed
01-05-2010, 02:58 PM
I've been thinking about how I should feel about this team. Honestly, they have had some very good games and a bad game or two, but overall I feel this team is a good team, not great, who is playing like a very mediocre team. They have the potential to be a pretty good team, but play with a lot of immaturity IMO. If they trust in the offensive plays and take good shots while getting a good amount of touches in the paint they could be a whole lot better.

They good thing as far as I can tell is most of their problems can be fixed by Mick.

bucksfan2
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
I've been thinking about how I should feel about this team. Honestly, they have had some very good games and a bad game or two, but overall I feel this team is a good team, not great, who is playing like a very mediocre team. They have the potential to be a pretty good team, but play with a lot of immaturity IMO. If they trust in the offensive plays and take good shots while getting a good amount of touches in the paint they could be a whole lot better.

They good thing as far as I can tell is most of their problems can be fixed by Mick.

Mick got outcoached by Jamie Dixon last night. The biggest challenge for this team will be whether or not Mick is able to make adjustments and coach this team up. This team is a very talented team but it they won't be successful in the Big East if Mick continues to be out coached.

Sea Ray
01-05-2010, 04:28 PM
There's nothing to be ashamed of in losing to Pitt. They're pretty good. Another day in the Big East I guess.

flyer85
01-05-2010, 04:56 PM
UC just wasn't patient enough on offense. Pitt is solid defensive team and UC forced a lot of shots(even made a number of them) but Pitt consistently got better shots and that was the difference in the game (as it is in most games).

Roy Tucker
01-05-2010, 05:22 PM
I don't quite have my college basketball glasses adjusted yet, but it appears to me that UC's offense is to pass the ball around the perimeter while everyone stands around. Eventually, Stephenson gets tired of it and creates a shot or pass off his dribble. Vaughan seems to have lost his mojo. I don't see much of an offense.

bucksfan2
01-05-2010, 05:25 PM
UC just wasn't patient enough on offense. Pitt is solid defensive team and UC forced a lot of shots(even made a number of them) but Pitt consistently got better shots and that was the difference in the game (as it is in most games).

Towards the end of the second half Pitt constantly got wide open looks and layups because of poor defense and over pursuit. The Bearcats offense actually kept them in that game down the stretch. Cronin needed to at least attempt a zone in order to prevent wide open looks.

What also confused me was two times in a row UC allowed Pitts best FT shooter to get the ball in a foul situation.

Revering4Blue
01-05-2010, 09:15 PM
Pitt beat UC. I can't figure Pitt out. This is a team that got dominated by a bad Indiana team, but beat UConn.

Gilbert Brown didn't play against I.U.

Jermaine Dixon was rusty in his return from a broken foot.

They are a different team with Brown and Dixon healthy.

As an aside, Pitt, Syracuse and Cincy were all picked around 7-8-9 in the conference by some pre-season publications. Interesting.

Redlegs23
01-06-2010, 01:32 PM
I don't quite have my college basketball glasses adjusted yet, but it appears to me that UC's offense is to pass the ball around the perimeter while everyone stands around. Eventually, Stephenson gets tired of it and creates a shot or pass off his dribble. Vaughan seems to have lost his mojo. I don't see much of an offense.

I would have agreed with you about 3 or 4 games ago, but recently I have seen a lot more movement on offense and some good sets. Early in the year is when I felt like they were all standing around until someone eventually chucked a three, but since then I've consistently seen them running the flex as well as another motion set.

Cyclone792
01-13-2010, 10:14 PM
For those of you who may have missed tonight's St. John's game, consider yourselves lucky. That was probably the worst display of basketball I've seen in ages.

Lousy shot selection, lousy offensive execution, lousy concentration. I've been a Mick Cronin supporter, but the act is starting to get real tired.

paintmered
01-13-2010, 10:17 PM
For those of you who may have missed tonight's St. John's game, consider yourselves lucky. That was probably the worst display of basketball I've seen in ages.

Lousy shot selection, lousy offensive execution, lousy concentration. I've been a Mick Cronin supporter, but the act is starting to get real tired.

Yikes, I'm glad I forgot to watch. Sounds like his seat is about to get really hot.

I've been a big Mick supporter too but he's not taking advantage of his opportunity to win with a very talented team. There are no more excuses left and he just fell to 7-30 with UC on the road. That ain't getting it done.

Cyclone792
01-13-2010, 10:31 PM
Yikes, I'm glad I forgot to watch. Sounds like his seat is about to get really hot.

I've been a big Mick supporter too but he's not taking advantage of his opportunity to win with a very talented team. There are no more excuses left and he just fell to 7-30 with UC on the road. That ain't getting it done.

paint, let me sum it up ...

21 turnovers (vs. only 20 made field goals).

0-12 shooting (with an air ball) from three point range.

10-18 shooting (with an air ball) from the foul line.

Zero offensive execution.

50 total points.

Blowing a three point lead (with the ball) in the final minute of the game (we can thank turnovers for this too).

Add all that together, and that's a loss to a lousy St. John's team who tried to lose the game themselves for the first 39 minutes of action.

It was brutal, man, just plain brutal.

Reds4Life
01-13-2010, 11:03 PM
My patience with Mick is over. If they don't make the NCAA's this year, which it sure looks like they have no prayer of doing, then it's time to find somebody else. Next year is shaping up to be even worse, the top 2 scorers (Lance and Vaughn) will be gone next year there and there is nothing waiting in the wings to replace them. The lack of development with Gates is insane.

The problem is, UC has no money to buy out his contract, and no big name would have any interest in coming here. Even if one did, no cash to make it happen.

Matt700wlw
01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Didn't Mick just get a new contract over the offseason?

I said at the time, that was a premature move. He has to prove he can handle the Big East before UC starts giving him lengthy contract extensions...he's in his 4th year, and hasn't shown it.

Boston Red
01-14-2010, 12:30 AM
Are you telling me St. John's wouldn't win the A-10?

BearcatShane
01-14-2010, 02:42 AM
My patience with Mick is over. If they don't make the NCAA's this year, which it sure looks like they have no prayer of doing, then it's time to find somebody else. Next year is shaping up to be even worse, the top 2 scorers (Lance and Vaughn) will be gone next year there and there is nothing waiting in the wings to replace them. The lack of development with Gates is insane.

The problem is, UC has no money to buy out his contract, and no big name would have any interest in coming here. Even if one did, no cash to make it happen.

They don't need a big name coach. They need a good coach. There are plenty out there in the smaller conferences.

paintmered
01-14-2010, 08:24 AM
They don't need a big name coach. They need a good coach. There are plenty out there in the smaller conferences.

Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

reds1869
01-14-2010, 09:17 AM
Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.

While Gonzaga long ago dropped the "mid-major" designation, they are certainly in a conference not even good enough to obtain that title. So I would have to suggest Mark Few could more than hold his own in the Big East coaching community. What he has done there is pretty spectacular.

SeeinRed
01-14-2010, 09:58 AM
I'm one of the biggest Mick supporters on here, but he should be doing a lot better with the talent he has on this team. I've had a feeling that this was the year he had to make the NCAA's or it would be his last and that feeling is getting stronger. Mick's extension in the offseason was little more than security for recruits IMO. Very rarely do you want to let a coach get into his last season on a contract even if you aren't sure he'll be around. The one thing that worries me is how many more years UC will have to wait to get a better team on the floor.

A big name coach would definately be one way to shorten that process. If UC really is serious about getting back to a nationally relevant basketball program they will need to do something drastic IMO. The luster is quickly wearing off.

dabvu2498
01-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Here's the competition: Rick Pitino Jim Calhoun John Thompson III Jim Boeheim Jay Wright Bob Huggins Jamie Dixon Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three. Wright was the coach at Hofstra when Nova hired him. Thompson was at Princeton. Calhoun - Northeastern. Huggs - Akron. Pitino - BU. Dixon had never been a head coach. It is not about hiring a name guy. It is about hiring the right guy.

jimbo
01-14-2010, 11:44 AM
Wright was the coach at Hofstra when Nova hired him. Thompson was at Princeton. Calhoun - Northeastern. Huggs - Akron. Pitino - BU. Dixon had never been a head coach. It is not about hiring a name guy. It is about hiring the right guy.

I'll take it even further and go local with both Sean Miller and Brian Gregory being assistants before being hired at Xavier and UD.

There are plenty of excellent assistants and coaches at small colleges who are waiting for the right opportunity and will someday be big-time coaches. The challenge is finding the right one. Hiring a "name" coach is overrated in my opinion. The only advantage to that as I can see would be initial recruiting.

Reds4Life
01-14-2010, 12:47 PM
I'll take it even further and go local with both Sean Miller and Brian Gregory being assistants before being hired at Xavier and UD.

There are plenty of excellent assistants and coaches at small colleges who are waiting for the right opportunity and will someday be big-time coaches. The challenge is finding the right one. Hiring a "name" coach is overrated in my opinion. The only advantage to that as I can see would be initial recruiting.

The problem with hiring one of unknowns, they are going against coaches in the Big East with HOF resumes, some of them are already in the HOF. If you are going to compete in the Big East every year, you need to recruit top talent (top 50 player at every position) or you have no shot. The league is about as unforgiving as there is, and there is no room for error or rebuilding if you want to have a prayer of winning.

Pitno, Calhoun & Boeheim have all won national titles. Pitino has been to 5 final fours. Huggs and Wright, have been to a final four. The list goes on. That isn't an easy situation to come into and recruit against if you aren't already a proven winner.

I'm a UC grad and fan, but the harsh reality is the school will probably focus on football from now on. The payouts are higher, and it's more realistic to compete. Unless some miracle happens, or they stumble onto the next John Wooden by mistake, I don't see them being able to compete in basketball in this league.

bucksfan2
01-14-2010, 03:33 PM
The problem with hiring one of unknowns, they are going against coaches in the Big East with HOF resumes, some of them are already in the HOF. If you are going to compete in the Big East every year, you need to recruit top talent (top 50 player at every position) or you have no shot. The league is about as unforgiving as there is, and there is no room for error or rebuilding if you want to have a prayer of winning.

Pitno, Calhoun & Boeheim have all won national titles. Pitino has been to 5 final fours. Huggs and Wright, have been to a final four. The list goes on. That isn't an easy situation to come into and recruit against if you aren't already a proven winner.

I'm a UC grad and fan, but the harsh reality is the school will probably focus on football from now on. The payouts are higher, and it's more realistic to compete. Unless some miracle happens, or they stumble onto the next John Wooden by mistake, I don't see them being able to compete in basketball in this league.

I don't think it takes much time to become a good college basketball coach. Your not going to go in your first season and become a world beater, but you can have a respectable season.

I consider Jamie Dixon probably the best all around coach in the Big East. He really arose out of no where and continued the success that Pitt had under Howland. Cronin has shown the inability to get his team to play on a consistent basis all season long. In the end it may be his downfall, but you can't lose games like last night if you expect to be a reputable program.

I don't think UC's program is in all that bad of shape. They have shown the ability to get the recruits in, which is key. They just need to get a better motivator and game coach on the bench.

guttle11
01-14-2010, 04:25 PM
Are you telling me St. John's wouldn't win the A-10?

Ha ha. My favorite quote of all time. It will never get old.

Reds4Life
01-14-2010, 05:26 PM
I don't think it takes much time to become a good college basketball coach. Your not going to go in your first season and become a world beater, but you can have a respectable season.

I consider Jamie Dixon probably the best all around coach in the Big East. He really arose out of no where and continued the success that Pitt had under Howland. Cronin has shown the inability to get his team to play on a consistent basis all season long. In the end it may be his downfall, but you can't lose games like last night if you expect to be a reputable program.

I don't think UC's program is in all that bad of shape. They have shown the ability to get the recruits in, which is key. They just need to get a better motivator and game coach on the bench.

I theory I agree, but it's hard to more with less when all the teams above you are recruiting 5 star top 25 and top 50 players at every position. It puts you in the position of having to get lucky with some recruits, and that doesn't work out very often.

They aren't in CUSA anymore, you can't win the Big East with marginal talent, or recruits that might work out.

I agree that Mick isn't very good as a bench coach. Some of the stuff he does simply boggles the mind. But it's hard to find a guy who is a good X's and O's guy, and a good recruiter. They are usually one or the other. The other reality is, UC has no money to buyout Cronin. They also don't have much money to hire a new coach either. I doubt they could get somebody who has a shot at competing in this league for the money will be able to pay.

BearcatShane
01-14-2010, 10:21 PM
Here's the competition:

Rick Pitino
Jim Calhoun
John Thompson III
Jim Boeheim
Jay Wright
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon

Find me a mid-major coach that can out recruit, out develop and out coach that group. Or at least two of the three.



I can't name them. But they are out there. Jay Wright came from Hofstra, Jim Calhoun came from Northeastern, Bob Huggins came from Akron.

Sea Ray
01-26-2010, 10:40 AM
No one's really asking Mick to beat the Big Boys of the Big East. The reason he's going down is because he's losing to schools like DePaul (last year) and Seton Hall/St Johns and yes, even Xavier, this year. As tough as the Big East is he can't afford those kind of losses. He needs to be able to beat those kinds of teams

WVRedsFan
01-29-2010, 01:19 AM
No one's really asking Mick to beat the Big Boys of the Big East. The reason he's going down is because he's losing to schools like DePaul (last year) and Seton Hall/St Johns and yes, even Xavier, this year. As tough as the Big East is he can't afford those kind of losses. He needs to be able to beat those kinds of teams
Sorry to chime in here, but in the Big East, you have to be able to face a top 20 team almost every game and many are just not up to it. Gale Catlett was a tremendous coach at West Virginia when it was in the A-10, but when WVU went to the BE, he pretty much imploded. John Beilein came along and did well, but couldn't take the pressure and left. Huggins is doing well, but he always has.

Like you say, you have to win your non-conference games, win all your home games in the conference and split your away games to do well. And you have to beat the scrubs of the league. If you don't do that, you are not successful in the Big East.

Hoosier Red
01-29-2010, 08:37 AM
Didn't Beilein get a huge raise to go suck at Michigan?

joshnky
01-29-2010, 10:19 AM
Didn't Beilein get a huge raise to go suck at Michigan?

Yes, I was under the impression he left to make a step up i salary and prestige not to avoid pressure. In fact, he probably is under more pressure to win now with the big money than he was before.

Sea Ray
01-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Sorry to chime in cere, but in the Big East, you have to be able to face a top 20 team almost every game and many are just not up to it...
Like you say, you have to win your non-conference games, win all your home games in the conference and split your away games to do well. And you have to beat the scrubs of the league. If you don't do that, you are not successful in the Big East.


That recipe works for most conferences but it's ambitious for UC in the BE. All I'm asking them to do is beat the non ranked teams in the BE like Providence, St Johns and even Louisville (this year) and then take an occasional upset of a UConn. That does it for me. All I'm looking for from Mick this year is an NCAA berth. That shouldn't be too much to ask

paintmered
02-04-2010, 11:01 PM
This team absolutely disappears on the road. Mick is 8-32 on the road at UC and it's looking like 8-33 with UC down 13 at the half against Notre Dame.

Cyclone792
02-04-2010, 11:04 PM
This is just an altogether poorly coached basketball team.

paintmered
02-04-2010, 11:17 PM
Ya know, you've got a front-line with a big size advantage playing a team that struggles to defend the post. So what does UC do on the offensive side? Chuck three after three.

Deonta finally hits a three. If you shoot enough of them...

paintmered
02-04-2010, 11:22 PM
Chuck is mincing his words on calling out Yancy Gates's laziness on the defensive end. He has more patience than I do.

To think, UC completely manhandled Notre Dame physically just a few weeks ago. I don't get it...

Cyclone792
02-04-2010, 11:50 PM
It's to the point now that I think it's just poor coaching. Cronin isn't properly preparing these kids night after night, and it doesn't seem like there's much accountability for players not working as hard as they should be. Too many times there's missed assignments, bad decisions, and just overall dumb basketball. I can see that happening from time to time, but it's just constant here ... night after night, game after game. It makes me wonder what in the world is going on in practice.

Of course, Mick sounds like Marvin Lewis after a loss ...

They've played about a half dozen really nice games this year, but that's about it, and unfortunately that just isn't going to cut it in the Big East. Everything else has just been painful to watch, including some of those lackluster wins they had against the early non-conference schedule.

At this point, I think it'll take a miracle to get UC in the tourney. They've either gotta win five more regular season games and at least one in the conference tourney or roll deep into the conference tourney, but doing that will require beating teams that I just don't think UC can beat.

Reds4Life
02-05-2010, 12:00 AM
Rest of the schedule is going to be a slaughter. Nova, Syracuse, WVU. USF isn't a gimme game either, for this team. I could see them losing to Marquette as well.

I'm ready to call an end to the Cronin era. At the time, I thought he was a good hire, but he hasn't recruited all that well, and his skills as a game coach are quite poor. UC won't do it, because they don't have the money, but a change needs to be made at the end of the season.

paintmered
02-05-2010, 12:09 AM
I've seen enough. I supported Mick up to this point. I may not have always been happy, but I supported him. Tonight's game was about as must win as they come with the teeth of the BE schedule around the corner. And they get blown out in a pathetic performance. I won't shed any tears if he gets the boot this off-season.

Here's a scary thought: this team will have less talent next year. I expected 22 wins this year. I think we'll see 16. This might only be a 12 win team next season.

Redlegs23
02-05-2010, 12:17 AM
I've seen enough. I supported Mick up to this point. I may not have always been happy, but I supported him. Tonight's game was about as must win as they come with the teeth of the BE schedule around the corner. And they get blown out in a pathetic performance. I won't shed any tears if he gets the boot this off-season.

Here's a scary thought: this team will have less talent next year. I expected 22 wins this year. I think we'll see 16. This might only be a 12 win team next season.

I'm with ya. I have been in Cronin's corner up until now. I have not bashed him once on any message board, but I'm tired of watching inconsistent effort. There are games where they play hard, and they're a pretty decent team when they do, but tonight they looked like they didn't want to be there, and that's unacceptable in a game of this importance. Cronin needs to either get consistent effort out of his team or he needs to be shown the door. I think he's trying hard, but at this point it's pretty obvious the message is not sinking in with his team, which means he may not be the right guy for the job.

Reds4Life
02-05-2010, 12:19 AM
I've seen enough. I supported Mick up to this point. I may not have always been happy, but I supported him. Tonight's game was about as must win as they come with the teeth of the BE schedule around the corner. And they get blown out in a pathetic performance. I won't shed any tears if he gets the boot this off-season.

Here's a scary thought: this team will have less talent next year. I expected 22 wins this year. I think we'll see 16. This might only be a 12 win team next season.

Next year is going to be ugly. Lose Vaughn, and maybe Lance, and there is nothing to replace them. A coupe 3 star recruits when the top half of the league is hauling in 4 and 5 star guys at nearly every position.

Even if they manage to pull out a suprise win against Cuse, Nova, WVU or GTown, the reality is this team is poorly coached. On top of that, if you are going to compete in this league you need to bring in top talent at every postion, every single year. Cronin hasn't done that eitiher.

Somewhere Nancy Zimpher is smiling. Ugh.

Redlegs23
02-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Ya know, you've got a front-line with a big size advantage playing a team that struggles to defend the post. So what does UC do on the offensive side? Chuck three after three.

Deonta finally hits a three. If you shoot enough of them...

Isn't it a joke...7-28 from three tonight. We're one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the country, and we're playing against a team that does not defend the post well yet we managed to shoot 28 three's. Frustrating.

paintmered
02-05-2010, 12:33 AM
Ooh, here's Mick to remind us that this team is "young". Stay tuned...

Reds4Life
02-05-2010, 12:37 AM
Ooh, here's Mick to remind us that this team is "young". Stay tuned...

Don't forget, "they are a good team", "they really needed a win", "our guys shoot great in practice, the shots are going to start dropping".

paintmered
02-05-2010, 12:41 AM
"they are a good team", "they really needed a win", "our guys shoot great in practice, the shots are going to start dropping".

:laugh:

We just got a "They are a good team" and a "Our kids played really well in practice this week." So predictable.

Roy Tucker
02-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Yeah, I agree. Teams now throw up a token press against UC because they know they'll get 3-4 turnovers just over brain cramp passes. And for the life of me, I can't figure out the "offense". What they run isn't as good as the middle school team I watched the other day.

I see a team that hasn't made up its mind what kind of team they want to play and who the go-to guys are. And lackluster effort. If I were coach, I'd be reaming these guys out and sitting their butts down. Mick can recruit, but he's not a game coach.

nmculbreth
02-05-2010, 07:36 PM
Prior to this season I've been about as big of a Mick supporter as is humanly possible but this team's performance is really starting to test my patience.

My biggest frustration is the consistent lack of player development. I was willing to give Mick a pass during the first two seasons because he was essentially starting from scratch and I was willing to chalk up the lack of player development to the fact that he was working with a bunch of JUCO players who had already reached their potential. That is no longer the case.

With the exception of some modest improvement from Rashad Bishop, I can't think of one player on this roster that has improved during their time at UC. Three years into his UC career and Darnell Wilks looks just as lost on the court as he did when he showed up at UC, ditto for Biggie McClain. Yancy Gates doesn't look any better, or any more motivated, than he did last season. To make matters even worse, Deonte Vaugh has seemingly regressed from where he was two years ago.

At some point all of that has to come back on the coaching staff...

texasdave
02-07-2010, 04:56 PM
RIP Mick. It would have been great to see a local kid coach the Bearcats back into national significance and stick around for a long time. But another late season flushing appears to be in progress. I am not sure if the team gets tired at the end of the season (unlikely) or that Cronin simply can't coach them up (very likely). The Bearcats have now turned a 46-43 lead with a little under 13 minutes to play into a 70 - 54 deficit with a minute and a half to go. The Bearcat offense (?) is painful to watch.

Edit: Syracuse goes on a 28-5 run to end the game. Bearcats turn a 49-43 lead into a 71-54 loss.

Reds4Life
02-07-2010, 05:17 PM
They played pretty well for 30 minutes, then tanked. Typical Cronin ball.

Scored 5 points in the last 10 minutes of the game. Mick substitutions continue to mistify me. Sit Gates and Lance at the same time, with a small lead. BRILLIANT. Vaughn did what Vaughn does, which is disappearing in every big game he plays in. He has to be the worst senior "leader" of any player that I can remember in a long time. He is one of the most overrated Bearcats ever, IMO.

Reds4Life
02-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Reading this confirms that Cronin has jumped off the cliff. He tossed in his standard excuse of playing good during practice, only thing he missed was a "we are young".





Cronin encouraged
Posted by bkoch February 7th, 2010, 6:08 pm

When I asked Mick Cronin after the game to take the long view and look ahead at his team’s NCAA Tournament chances he said he was encouraged because, for one thing, UC doesn’t have to play Syracuse again and he considers the Orange to be the best team in the country.

He might be right about Syracuse, but it’s hard to see how he can be encouraged after his team’s meltdown in the final 12 minutes today.

Anyway, here’s what he said.

But despite the meltdown in the final 12 minutes Sunday, Cronin was encouraged by the way his team played.

“If we play the way we did today, we’re going to be fine,” Cronin said. “I’m not encouraged by the last six minutes, but with eight minutes to play it’s a one-point game against what I think is the best team in the country.”

He went on to say that UC has become a much better team in practice the last few days and that he was happy to see the Bearcats focused on the right things against Syracuse - namely rebounding, defense and taking good shots.

Give him this much. He’s a glass half-full kind of guy.

http://news.cincinnati.com/ucblog

Matt700wlw
02-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Seriously, Mick?

Sounds like Mike Brown gave him talking points...

KoryMac5
02-08-2010, 08:38 AM
As a Syracuse fan I was really surprised that the Bearcats run so many guys in and out of their line up. It seems like Cronin doesn't stick with what is working for too long and is late to change what is not working.

bucksfan2
02-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Fire Mick. Time has come, he has shown he can't coach up a team. If you are an opposing team and watch film of UC why would any coach play anything besides zone? Poor offensive fundamentals with Stephenson looking like the only player who knows how to beat a zone.

Sad thing is UC has talent, as much talent as any team they play this season. Don't know why Mick can't coach them up, but its sad.

flyer85
02-08-2010, 12:33 PM
I'll say this, Bob Huggins (or his like as a coach) is very unlikely to be coming back. Mick walked in to an awful situation and has done a nice job of righting a ship that was listing severely. Can he take them up another level? Too early to say at this point, however, three years just isn't enough time to answer the question considering the state of the program when he walked in.

IMO, UC is a young team that lacks veteran leadership on the floor. When does that problem usually manifest itself? Late in games.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 01:18 PM
I'll say this, Bob Huggins (or his like as a coach) is very unlikely to be coming back. Mick walked in to an awful situation and has done a nice job of righting a ship that was listing severely. Can he take them up another level? Too early to say at this point, however, three years just isn't enough time to answer the question considering the state of the program when he walked in.

IMO, UC is a young team that lacks veteran leadership on the floor. When does that problem usually manifest itself? Late in games.

A lot of this no longer holds water.

UC had the talent last year to make the tourney, but imploded down the stretch, for the 3rd straight year. They have the talent this year, but he isn't developing his players. They have shown no progress from the start of the season, and will miss the NCAA's again.

He's done nothing to motivate Yancy Gates at all. They can't run offensive sets, they can't shoot, and they sure can't make a free throw to save their life. They have a senior guard, Vaughn, that disappears in every big game they play.

I thought Mick was a great hire at the time, but I was wrong. It's time to move on with somebody else.

Sea Ray
02-08-2010, 03:56 PM
I'll say this, Bob Huggins (or his like as a coach) is very unlikely to be coming back. Mick walked in to an awful situation and has done a nice job of righting a ship that was listing severely. Can he take them up another level? Too early to say at this point, however, three years just isn't enough time to answer the question considering the state of the program when he walked in.

IMO, UC is a young team that lacks veteran leadership on the floor. When does that problem usually manifest itself? Late in games.


Why do we have to watch more years of Mick to see if he can manage a game after the tip? We've seen him coach games for years now and verdict is pretty clear. Who has improved under Mick? Vaughn? Biggie McClain? Gates?

I'd argue they're regressing. I'd argue the whole team has regressed since Maui. Arguing that the team is young is just making excuses for Mick. His job is to mold the young talent. Just by merely saying the young talent has not jelled is also admitting Mick hasn't done his job.

LoganBuck
02-08-2010, 04:04 PM
A lot of this no longer holds water.

UC had the talent last year to make the tourney, but imploded down the stretch, for the 3rd straight year. They have the talent this year, but he isn't developing his players. They have shown no progress from the start of the season, and will miss the NCAA's again.

He's done nothing to motivate Yancy Gates at all. They can't run offensive sets, they can't shoot, and they sure can't make a free throw to save their life. They have a senior guard, Vaughn, that disappears in every big game they play.

I thought Mick was a great hire at the time, but I was wrong. It's time to move on with somebody else.

Agree.

This UC team is not even entertaining when they win. When the UC game comes on the radio, I will be turning it off the rest of this season. Can't stand to listen to this anymore. I accept that the Big East is harder than previous competition. But you have to be competitive in your league, and he has had four years to bring in his guys. Where are the sharp shooters?

flyer85
02-08-2010, 04:52 PM
what you see in UC is a team that lacks a true point guard ready to lead on the floor. The have some nice parts but no leader at the point (Vaughn is not a PG). So what happens at crunch time? There is no one on the floor that is going to make sure the team gets a good shot. What you can blame Cronin for is not having a true PG.

Do you really want them to fire Cronin and start over again?

I am reminded of a quote from Fran Fraschilla a few years back that is one of the best ever spoken on TV. "Early in the season you win games with toughness but as the season wears on you have to win more with execution."

UC won games early in the year with their toughness and athleticism. However, their execution has not improved enough to win more games in the Big East. This is due to the lack of a PG to make sure they execute their stuff and get good looks.

Doc has stumbled into some insight.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/COL03/302070020/1007/SPT/Cronin+still+trying+to+fit+pieces+together

bucksfan2
02-08-2010, 04:58 PM
what you see in UC is a team that lacks a true point guard ready to lead on the floor. The have some nice parts but no leader at the point (Vaughn is not a PG). So what happens at crunch time? There is no one on the floor that is going to make sure the team gets a good shot. What you can blame Cronin for is not having a true PG.

Do you really want them to fire Cronin and start over again?

I am reminded of a quote from Fran Fraschilla a few years back that is one of the best ever spoken on TV. "Early in the season you win games with toughness but as the season wears on you have to win more with execution."

UC won games early in the year with their toughness and athleticism. However, their execution has not improved enough to win more games in the Big East. This is due to the lack of a PG to make sure they execute their stuff and get good looks.

Doc has stumbled into some insight.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/COL03/302070020/1007/SPT/Cronin+still+trying+to+fit+pieces+together

While you may be right about lacking a true PG but this team's offensives difficulties lie right at the feet of Cronin. Their zone offense is as poor as I have ever seen. I have seen better coached high school teams than what UC offers. I don't understand Cronin's use of 10+ players in a game. That is fine at the beginning of the season, but not in the middle of conference games. Normally a coach will go 7-8 deep during a conference game.

Right now Cronin has proven he can't up-coach a team. Players don't play motivated and improve under him. The type of offensive execution is just plain unacceptable at the Big East level.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 05:23 PM
what you see in UC is a team that lacks a true point guard ready to lead on the floor. The have some nice parts but no leader at the point (Vaughn is not a PG). So what happens at crunch time? There is no one on the floor that is going to make sure the team gets a good shot. What you can blame Cronin for is not having a true PG.

Do you really want them to fire Cronin and start over again?

I am reminded of a quote from Fran Fraschilla a few years back that is one of the best ever spoken on TV. "Early in the season you win games with toughness but as the season wears on you have to win more with execution."

UC won games early in the year with their toughness and athleticism. However, their execution has not improved enough to win more games in the Big East. This is due to the lack of a PG to make sure they execute their stuff and get good looks.

Doc has stumbled into some insight.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/COL03/302070020/1007/SPT/Cronin+still+trying+to+fit+pieces+together

Huggins UC teams didn't have a true PG either, yet they did just fine. WVU this year, no true PG, yet they are top 10 in the country.

Further, UC does have PG, Cashmere Wright. He's done nothing all year in terms of improvement. Mick played the "no PG" card all last year when Wright redshirted for injury. He can play this year, and nothing has changed. Same ugly offense, same poor shooting, same unacceptable results.

Gates could be a beast, where is the improvement? Doesn't exist. You think he'd be out there giving half effort if he played for Jim Calhoun? I don't. If he did, he'd be on the bench in street clothes. Then you have Vaughn, who is what I call a garbage player. He shows up when they are down by 15 to pad his stats, where is the senior leadership for the team in critical situations? Every must win game they play, he does nothing but toss up 3 after 3 (and miss 90% of them), plays poor defense and can't pass. With the way he's played, he should be on the bench for all but 7-8 minutes a game, yet Cronin continues to play him.

I won't even get into the substituion patterns, they are a complete disaster that don't make sense to anybody but Cronin.

WMR
02-08-2010, 05:46 PM
Do UC's struggles get you pissed at Zimpher all over again? I could certainly see that.

Especially when you look at the studs Huggy bear brings into Morgantown on a yearly basis. (And coaches them up once they get there.)

flyer85
02-08-2010, 05:47 PM
Further, UC does have PG, Cashmere Wright. He's done nothing all year in terms of improvement.
Not bad but he certainly isn't ready to lead, that is why a VETERAN PG is so important. Somebody who has been through the battles before. Wright will be likely be a very good player ... by his junior year.


Gates could be a beast, where is the improvement? The knock on Gates long before he got to UC was there he doesn't work hard (during the games or in practice). He is an awesome physical talent but he doesn't seem to want it.

Is Cronin a great coach? not at this point but he isn't a bad one. The talent level doesn't match the expectations is the biggest issue it seems.

BTW, the problem UC ran into is that you can't effectively attack a zone unless you warp it(either with ball movement or penetration). UC got tentative and there is no way to get good shots against a zone the likes of Syracuse unless you are aggressive. Syracuse may be the best team in the country and UC was right there for 32 minutes. Learning how to win those kind of games is the toughest step to take.

WMR
02-08-2010, 05:51 PM
Not bad but he certainly isn't ready to lead, that is why a VETERAN PG is so important. Somebody who has been through the battles before. Wright will be likely be a very good player ... by his junior year.

The knock on Gates long before he got to UC was there he doesn't work hard (during the games or in practice). He is an awesome physical talent but he doesn't seem to want it.

Is Cronin a great coach? not at this point but he isn't a bad one. The talent level doesn't match the expectations is the biggest issue it seems.

How do you give a coach any sort of a pass when he hasn't developed a PG after 3 seasons on the job? Considering the current landscape of college basketball, there's no excuse to still be floundering around without a PG after three years as the head coach.

flyer85
02-08-2010, 05:54 PM
How do you give a coach any sort of a pass when he hasn't developed a PG after 3 seasons on the job? Considering the current landscape of college basketball, there's no excuse to still be floundering around without a PG after three years on the job.I think he has a decent one in Wright. However, not many freshman are ready to lead a young basketball team. It would be different if UC had good veteran leadership on the team but they don't. BTW, I have never liked Vaughn as a player.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 05:54 PM
Do UC's struggles get you pissed at Zimpher all over again? I could certainly see that.

Especially when you look at the studs Huggy bear brings into Morgantown on a yearly basis. (And coaches them up once they get there.)

For me personally, yes it does. She destroyed a winning program at the worst possible time.

I think that is part of the reason attendance has been low, aside from the product on the court being subpar, many UC fans are bitter over what happened with Huggins and Zimpher.

WMR
02-08-2010, 05:55 PM
I think he has a decent one in Wright. However, not many freshman are ready to lead a young basketball team. It would be different if UC had good veteran leadership on the team but they don't. BTW, I have never liked Vaughn as a player.

What do you think about his in-game coaching on a micro level? The fact that he's still using a 10 man rotation tells me he's in over his head.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 05:56 PM
Not bad but he certainly isn't ready to lead, that is why a VETERAN PG is so important. Somebody who has been through the battles before. Wright will be likely be a very good player ... by his junior year.

The knock on Gates long before he got to UC was there he doesn't work hard (during the games or in practice). He is an awesome physical talent but he doesn't seem to want it.

Is Cronin a great coach? not at this point but he isn't a bad one. The talent level doesn't match the expectations is the biggest issue it seems.

BTW, the problem UC ran into is that you can't effectively attack a zone unless you warp it(either with ball movement or penetration). UC got tentative and there is no way to get good shots against a zone the likes of Syracuse unless you are aggressive. Syracuse may be the best team in the country and UC was right there for 32 minutes. Learning how to win those kind of games is the toughest step to take.

Doesn't match the expectations? I don't think most UC fans were expecting a national championship contender this year. The goal was simply to make the NCAA tournament. IMO, that was a realistic goal, and it won't be achieved.

flyer85
02-08-2010, 05:59 PM
For me personally, yes it does. She destroyed a winning program at the worst possible time.
The problem was she didn't like him and didn't what Huggins as coach but she didn't have the guts to just fire him ... like she should have done if she didn't want him there. Instead it dragged on until August and then they hired an interim coach. It ended up destroying not one but two recruiting classes. The situation could not have been bungled any worse.

flyer85
02-08-2010, 06:02 PM
What do you think about his in-game coaching on a micro level? The fact that he's still using a 10 man rotation tells me he's in over his head.the fact that he uses 10 tells me that he realizes his team lacks the basketball skills to win with execution and his best chance to win is still with toughness and athleticism. UC has players that are athletic but have a lot of holes.

Cronin may not be perfect but be careful what you wish for.

flyer85
02-08-2010, 06:04 PM
IMO, that was a realistic goal.
A lot of things had to go right and the most important was Stephenson being a stud and a real difference maker. He is a good player but hasn't played to anywhere near the level they needed him to if they wanted to be an NCAA tourney team.

WMR
02-08-2010, 06:11 PM
the fact that he uses 10 tells me that he realizes his team lacks the basketball skills to win with execution and his best chance to win is still with toughness and athleticism. UC has players that are athletic but have a lot of holes.

Cronin may not be perfect but be careful what you wish for.

If those are his goals, that's fine, but those goals could just as easily be accomplished playing 7-8 guys as long as you pick the right ones.

Maybe he should bench Vaughn for a game or two?

They appear totally listless right now.

Sea Ray
02-08-2010, 06:13 PM
The thing with Zimpher was all about how she did it. And after firing him in August they replaced him with Andy Kennedy. In hindsight they should have given Kennedy the job in January and continuity would have been better and Devan Downey likely would have stayed. Thus she erred twice

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 06:15 PM
If those are his goals, that's fine, but those goals could just as easily be accomplished playing 7-8 guys as long as you pick the right ones.

Maybe he should bench Vaughn for a game or two?

They appear totally listless right now.

Could bench Vaughn until senior day as far as I'm concerned. No leadership skills and constant bad decisions do nothing to help this team.

WMR
02-08-2010, 06:16 PM
It would've really broken me up if Devan Downey never came to the SEC. LOL.

WMR
02-08-2010, 06:17 PM
Could bench Vaughn until senior day as far as I'm concerned. No leadership skills and constant bad decisions do nothing to help this team.

I agree with you that he is one of the all-time most disappointing players at UC.

Maybe he really didn't actually have it in him? I don't believe that.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 06:23 PM
I agree with you that he is one of the all-time most disappointing players at UC.

Maybe he really didn't actually have it in him? I don't believe that.

One of the most overrated players at UC, I don't care where he's at in the record books.

When you look at the what if's, providing Zimpher didn't burn the program to the ground, it's enough to make you want to puke. UC would have likely signed OJ Mayo, Bill Walker, and Downey would have stayed at UC. Instead we have the garbage you see on the court. Joy.

Hope Nancy likes her job, I can't see any University that cares about athletics hiring her after what she pulled at UC. The irony is, she hated Huggins, her previous employer had one of the lowest graduation rates in the conference, and had Bruce Pearl as a coach, who is one of the biggest clowns around.

WMR
02-08-2010, 06:27 PM
What about Michael Beasley? I always figured he would've gone to UC if Hugs had stayed.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 06:28 PM
What about Michael Beasley? I always figured he would've gone to UC if Hugs had stayed.

Doubt it. He didn't commit to KState until Bob hired Delonte Hill. If he stayed at UC, not sure if he would have had an opening on the staff.

nmculbreth
02-08-2010, 06:29 PM
Do UC's struggles get you pissed at Zimpher all over again? I could certainly see that.

Especially when you look at the studs Huggy bear brings into Morgantown on a yearly basis. (And coaches them up once they get there.)

At this point, the Zimpher / Huggins business is water under the bridge. While I was disappointed to see Huggins treated the way he was by the administration, I think that his dismissal probably ended up being the best thing for him. Even before the Zimpher / DUI business, the program wasn't quite on the same level as it was for most of the 90s. They made the NCAA tournament but they weren't seeded highly and never made it out of the first weekend and his last four recruiting classes were very mediocre.

That isn't to say I wouldn't take him back in a nanosecond, I just question the fact that he would have had the same kind of success at UC as he did at KSU and is having at WV had the whole Zimpher debacle never taken place.

Cyclone792
02-08-2010, 06:31 PM
It would've really broken me up if Devan Downey never came to the SEC. LOL.

We can all thank Cronin for that one too. Downey initially wanted to transfer, but then changed his mind and wanted to stay. Cronin told him to get out and used Downey as his so-called example regarding team loyalty. It's ironic that in the end, not having a guy anywhere near the caliber of Devan Downey at the PG spot may end up being one of the primary reasons Cronin gets run out of town. Of course, who knows how UC would have looked with Downey still, but I'm sure it wouldn't have been any worse these past few years.

Overall, though, like others have said, the lack of player development is really what's frustrating. Watching this team play night after night, it's just players making one dumb play after another ... dumb basketball as I'm now calling it. One stupid decision after another, one lost possession after another due to lousy execution, etc.

The St. John's game, IMO, is the microcosm of the season. The end of that game was simply a disaster, and how they managed to blow that game and lose was simply stupifying. And it's losses like that against a team that's 91st in the RPI and 2-8 in the Big East that will keep UC out of the NCAA tourney barring a miracle.

I don't expect UC to beat teams like Syracuse who are top five in the country, but it's some of the losses that really frustrate me. St. John's is one, Seton Hall is another ... plus two noncon games they gave away at the end (Gonzaga and Xavier). Unfortunately, they've really only got one win they can hold up to everyone (Vandy), and that's not going to be enough to outweigh the mounting losses.

Boston Red
02-08-2010, 06:31 PM
I don't think Huggins had any success at K-State. I'm pretty sure they were an NIT team in his only season there.

WMR
02-08-2010, 06:35 PM
Damn, Cyc, did not know that about Downey wanting to come back. He would be exactly what the doctor ordered for this Bearcat team. (Of course, he would be the same thing for most teams in America.) Maybe it's because he seems to always save his special daggers for Kentucky, but, man I have become extremely impressed with his game over the past couple seasons.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 06:37 PM
I don't think Huggins had any success at K-State. I'm pretty sure they were an NIT team in his only season there.

I'd call taking a team that never finished above 7th in the conference in school history, and brining in the #1 recruiting class in the country, and winning 23 games as a pretty good success for 1 season.

Cyclone792
02-08-2010, 06:40 PM
Damn, Cyc, did not know that about Downey wanting to come back. He would be exactly what the doctor ordered for this Bearcat team. (Of course, he would be the same thing for most teams in America.) Maybe it's because he seems to always save his special daggers for Kentucky, but, man I have become extremely impressed with his game over the past couple seasons.

I watched what Downey did to your boys two weeks ago, and all it did was make me depressed knowing that's what UC had ... and then threw away.

Of course, I also had similar feelings when watching Mayo and Walker too.

SeeinRed
02-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Wow, I understand Vaughn isn't having a very good season, but he definately hasn't had a dissapointing career at UC. For the prior three years he has been the only bright spot on bad teams. His career numbers tell a pretty big story.

As for Cronin, no doubt this team should be playing better than they are. I've heard the chemistry is terrible. This year has been teetering on disaster, but its not over, and UC's bid for the NCAA's certainly aren't. I've pointed to this year as the show me year in Cronin's tenure for a long time. It isn't over yet, but he isn't showing much.

Its not doomsday yet, but it is very close.

Reds4Life
02-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Wow, I understand Vaughn isn't having a very good season, but he definately hasn't had a dissapointing career at UC. For the prior three years he has been the only bright spot on bad teams. His career numbers tell a pretty big story.

As for Cronin, no doubt this team should be playing better than they are. I've heard the chemistry is terrible. This year has been teetering on disaster, but its not over, and UC's bid for the NCAA's certainly aren't. I've pointed to this year as the show me year in Cronin's tenure for a long time. It isn't over yet, but he isn't showing much.

Its not doomsday yet, but it is very close.

Vaughn got the stats on the bad teams because he was the only player on the court that could have sniffed major conference basketball for nearly 3 years. His game hasn't improved, at all. Every important game, same stuff. Vanishes into thin air, and makes horrid decisions that costs his team valuable possessions. I've never seen a senior chuck up so many 35 footers that he doesn't have a prayer of making.

I can see your an optimist, but unless UC goes on a huge tear, they aren't going to the tournament. Still have to play WVU, Nova, UConn and G'Town. Those games are likely all losses.

SeeinRed
02-09-2010, 09:14 AM
Vaughn got the stats on the bad teams because he was the only player on the court that could have sniffed major conference basketball for nearly 3 years. His game hasn't improved, at all. Every important game, same stuff. Vanishes into thin air, and makes horrid decisions that costs his team valuable possessions. I've never seen a senior chuck up so many 35 footers that he doesn't have a prayer of making.

I can see your an optimist, but unless UC goes on a huge tear, they aren't going to the tournament. Still have to play WVU, Nova, UConn and G'Town. Those games are likely all losses.

Bad players don't put up those numbers on any team. Vaughn was the only player other teams had to guard for the prior three years and they would always put the emphasis on stopping him.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but losing to #3/4 Syracuse doesn't signal the end of times. I'd say you might be just as pessimistic as I am optimistic. Sure UC has some tough games, but getting to 9-9 in conference play gives them a chance to get in meaning they need 4 more wins. Their remaining schedule is @UConn, @USF, VS. Marquette, VS. DePaul, @WVU, VS. Villanova, @Georgetown. USF, Marquette, and DePaul are games they must win in all likely hood. You'd like to see them upset UConn, WVU, or Georgetown on the road to give them a quality road win. UC has played better at home this season so Villanova is another game you might circle as a quality win. UC has a decent RPI and good SOS. 10 wins would be ideal for UC, however.

UC has played good teams pretty close this year. I'd say they could be in every one of those games and wins are definitely not out of the question. Its a tough road to hoe to be sure, but not impossible by any stretch.

I can't be the only one who thinks UC isn't in as bad a position as some on here believe. One thing UC does have going is they have plenty of talent. They haven't really shown it to this point but it is there. Whether the coach can use that talent properly is a point of contention, but at least it is there.

bucksfan2
02-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Do UC's struggles get you pissed at Zimpher all over again? I could certainly see that.

Especially when you look at the studs Huggy bear brings into Morgantown on a yearly basis. (And coaches them up once they get there.)

Quite frankly I don't get pissed at Zimpher all over again. I think Huggins had slacked in his recruiting and began to mail in some recruiting classes. He did recruit Downey but after that the classes were bare. He sure as heck didn't recruit like he did at KSU or now at WVU.

joshnky
02-09-2010, 10:22 AM
getting to 9-9 in conference play gives them a chance to get in meaning they need 4 more wins. Their remaining schedule is @UConn, @USF, VS. Marquette, VS. DePaul, @WVU, VS. Villanova, @Georgetown. USF, Marquette, and DePaul are games they must win in all likely hood. You'd like to see them upset UConn, WVU, or Georgetown on the road to give them a quality road win. UC has played better at home this season so Villanova is another game you might circle as a quality win. UC has a decent RPI and good SOS. 10 wins would be ideal for UC, however.

No way they get in at 9-9. Its going to take 10 wins, one of those over one of the big four or they'll have to make a run in the tourney.

Roy Tucker
02-09-2010, 10:23 AM
I think getting mad about Huggins and Zimpher is like still being mad about the '94 baseball strike. Time to get over it.

I'm not happy about how the team has been coached under Cronin. But I'm afraid that switching coaches yet again would set the program back a couple years. And, who are they going to get?

Mick has the horses. He's not Tony Yates. The team is respectable again. Let's see if they can work their way into NCAA contention.

joshnky
02-09-2010, 10:23 AM
Quite frankly I don't get pissed at Zimpher all over again. I think Huggins had slacked in his recruiting and began to mail in some recruiting classes. He did recruit Downey but after that the classes were bare. He sure as heck didn't recruit like he did at KSU or now at WVU.

Wasn't Downey in his final recruiting class?

Hoosier Red
02-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Quite frankly I don't get pissed at Zimpher all over again. I think Huggins had slacked in his recruiting and began to mail in some recruiting classes. He did recruit Downey but after that the classes were bare. He sure as heck didn't recruit like he did at KSU or now at WVU.

I always thought there were a lot of parallels between the IU and UC situations. IU firing Knight ended up being best for both Knight and maybe long term for the University(though hiring Kelvin Sanctions negated most of that.)

Just like IU, UC had a coach who was "bigger than the program" but had started to lose interest and had some outside issues that the University had to deal with(Knight:Anger, Huggs:Alcohol, Heart Attack) Just like IU, UC had a president who wanted to make a name for himself/herself by taking on the giant athletic figure (Brand:went to NCAA, Zimpher:Went on to a non-athletic SUNY which probably has some more prestige)

Just like Knight, Huggins probably needed a kick in the pants to re-charge the passion and re-energize his career.

bucksfan2
02-09-2010, 10:42 AM
I always thought there were a lot of parallels between the IU and UC situations. IU firing Knight ended up being best for both Knight and maybe long term for the University(though hiring Kelvin Sanctions negated most of that.)

Just like IU, UC had a coach who was "bigger than the program" but had started to lose interest and had some outside issues that the University had to deal with(Knight:Anger, Huggs:Alcohol, Heart Attack) Just like IU, UC had a president who wanted to make a name for himself/herself by taking on the giant athletic figure (Brand:went to NCAA, Zimpher:Went on to a non-athletic SUNY which probably has some more prestige)

Just like Knight, Huggins probably needed a kick in the pants to re-charge the passion and re-energize his career.

Good comparison. I think the difference that I see is Knight was at the end of the line coaching with the current basketball players. He didn't want to deal with the one and done player. He didn't want to deal with the inflated ego. He didn't want to recruit the top tier players because of the baggage that came along with them. We saw that at Texas Tech, he had very competitive teams, that just couldn't match up athletically with the better teams in the country. Huggins on the other hand has shown the willingness to accept the current state of basketball, and so far has been very successful at WVU.

I am looking through the recruiting classes since 2002. With the exception of Hicks, Huggins didn't bring in another pro prospect. He mailed in some recruits, Telford, and took some serious chances that never panned out. He failed to land any 5 star players, and he hit the JC ranks hard, which really did nothing but provide a continuous stop gap.

texasdave
02-13-2010, 03:35 PM
Bearcats with a nice little road win today topping UConn 60-48.

Cyclone792
02-13-2010, 03:49 PM
They tried to give it away in the end, but Vaughn made four straight key free throws and Stephenson had a breakaway dunk to help seal the win.

Tuesday night in South Florida looms large. The total optimist in me says if they can win Tuesday night, then take two straight at home against Marquette and DePaul then they'll be giving themselves an excellent shot to reach the tournament (barring a Big East tourney collapse).

At least today was a start. They've got to keep it up.

LoganBuck
02-13-2010, 03:49 PM
ESPN guys mentioned that Xavier is on the wrong side of the bubble and liked what the win did for UC. Between the Michigan St/Penn State and OkST/OK games.

camisadelgolf
02-13-2010, 06:49 PM
They stepped it up today, but it's still getting incredibly frustrating watching them collapse at the end of games.

SeeinRed
02-13-2010, 07:15 PM
They stepped it up today, but it's still getting incredibly frustrating watching them collapse at the end of games.


I agree, but the positive side is they held on. For once they pulled themselves together and got it done before they let it go too far. Hopefully this is what they needed to get that confidence going that they can close out games. Good win for UC, especially considering how poorly they shot for most of the game. I liked the defense for most of the game and holding a team under 60 points is nothing to sneeze at. Hopefully some of the fans inch back off the edge of that cliff that some were precariously hanging over, at least for today.

Next game is a big one.

Redlegs23
02-13-2010, 07:36 PM
Huge win today, and the next three are equally as huge. Win the next three and we are in very good shape for the tourney.

Boston Red
02-13-2010, 09:11 PM
ESPN guys mentioned that Xavier is on the wrong side of the bubble and liked what the win did for UC. Between the Michigan St/Penn State and OkST/OK games.

Xavier was never on the wrong side of the Bubble, but now they're REALLY not on the wrong side of the Bubble.

Xavier may have helped knock Florida out, which could help UC.

Roy Tucker
02-14-2010, 01:10 AM
I'll take a W @ UConn any day. I don't care how they did it.

Sea Ray
02-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Tuesday night in South Florida looms large. The total optimist in me says if they can win Tuesday night, then take two straight at home against Marquette and DePaul then they'll be giving themselves an excellent shot to reach the tournament (barring a Big East tourney collapse).

At least today was a start. They've got to keep it up.


The opportunity is definitely there just like it was the last couple of years. History shows us that Mick coached teams will not win the "winnable" games necessary to make the tournament in late Feb. In fact they tend to lose just about all their final games...So I'm not getting my hopes up.

NorrisHopper30
02-16-2010, 06:26 PM
Huge game tonight.

texasdave
02-16-2010, 09:22 PM
Cats are playing some bad basketball tonight. No one can tell me they are a well-coached team. Ugly. Plenty of time left but I would be surprised if they came back to win this one.

Reds4Life
02-16-2010, 09:28 PM
Cats are playing some bad basketball tonight. No one can tell me they are a well-coached team. Ugly. Plenty of time left but I would be surprised if they came back to win this one.

The second half so far has been disgusting. Zero effort, no heart, can't shoot. Yancy Gates looks like he doesn't even care.

Still 12 minutes left, hopefully they do something.

paintmered
02-16-2010, 09:29 PM
U-G-L-Y, this offense ain't go no alibi. How does a team on the NCAA bubble put up 27 points in 28 minutes?

Reds4Life
02-16-2010, 09:45 PM
U-G-L-Y, this offense ain't go no alibi. How does a team on the NCAA bubble put up 27 points in 28 minutes?

Waiting for the post game presser.

"We are young", "we played great in practice", "South Florida needed this game", "It's hard to win on the road in the Big East".

Cronin's road record is about as horrible as you are going to find. They aren't running any offense at all, nothing.

Reds4Life
02-16-2010, 10:21 PM
And so beings the annual UC crash and burn down the stretch.

I have been a fan for a long time, but I'm not sure how much longer I can continue to watch this garbage.

Cyclone792
02-16-2010, 10:28 PM
One step forward (UConn victory), two steps back tonight at South Florida.

In typical Mick Cronin fashion, UC does something to give themselves a shot with a big win, and then they promptly come back and shoot themselves in the foot.

LoganBuck
02-16-2010, 10:47 PM
I said I wasn't going to listen to anymore of this crap.

I did tonight, and was rewarded with more crap.

Just like the snow, the crap keeps coming.

Roy Tucker
02-17-2010, 09:45 AM
In typical Mick Cronin fashion, UC does something to give themselves a shot with a big win, and then they promptly come back and shoot themselves in the foot.




The only problem with that is that they'd probably miss.

bucksfan2
02-17-2010, 09:59 AM
Mick played 11 guys in the first half. Vaughn, Gates, and Stephenson should all play 30-35+ minutes but Mick feels the need to play Wilks, Dixon, Davis, etc. I don't know if I an stomach another year of Mick's coaching.

Redlegs212
02-17-2010, 10:23 AM
Why is Gates so afraid to play big down low? I feel that he doesn't use his size to his advantage. For example, there was a play where he got it on the right side of the hoop, and instead of going up with it he does some spin move to the other side and misses completely. That game last night was awful. Did not look like a NCAA Bubble Team

Sea Ray
02-23-2010, 08:28 PM
Mike DeCourcy is reporting that Stephenson will stay for his soph year.

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-02-23/3-pointers-cincinnatis-stephenson-says-he-will-return-for-soph


Good move for him and UC

texasdave
02-24-2010, 09:31 PM
Bearcats squeaking by Depaul by a score of 52-48 with about 10 minutes left to go in the game. Deonta Vaughn has chipped in a deuce so far. What happened to DV?

paintmered
02-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Bearcats squeaking by Depaul by a score of 52-48 with about 10 minutes left to go in the game. Deonta Vaughn has chipped in a deuce so far. What happened to DV?

He's fallen off the face of the earth, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

texasdave
02-24-2010, 10:11 PM
Bearcats hang on by a final of 74-69. Gates and Stephenson combined for 41 points. UC shot a sickening 14-31 from the charity stripe and 0-9 from the three-point line.

Cyclone792
02-24-2010, 11:17 PM
Pretty much the only reason UC won tonight was because they played a home game against the worst team in the Big East.

This team better figure something - anything - out in the next few days, or they'll be run off the court three straight times coming up. It's just hard to watch, and it's equally as hard to figure out how this is the same team that beat Vandy and Maryland in Maui (and should have beaten Gonzaga there too).

Matt700wlw
02-25-2010, 03:14 AM
It takes 20 wins to get to the dance. If they play the way they did tonight against the next 3, they won't win a single game. There's still the Big East tournament...

Glad they won, but let's not kid ourselves...

Huggs is licking his chops...and he should be.

NorrisHopper30
02-25-2010, 03:36 AM
19 maybe

Reds4Life
02-25-2010, 12:50 PM
They won last night, but you have to keep it in context. Depaul is horrible, and the worst team in the league. This UC team is the worst free throw shooting team I can ever remember in UC history. It's truly embarassing.

I think they get destroyed in the next 3 games.

Roy Tucker
02-25-2010, 12:59 PM
UC shot a sickening 14-31 from the charity stripe and 0-9 from the three-point line.

You know, these guys are NCAA Div. 1 athletes playing at a fairly high level program. Is this really all the better they can do?

SeeinRed
02-25-2010, 02:31 PM
You know, these guys are NCAA Div. 1 athletes playing at a fairly high level program. Is this really all the better they can do?


There is no excuse for this bad of free throw shooting for this level of competition. Honestly there is only one place you can point to for the bad free throw shooting and that is Mick. You can't consider it a funk if it lasts a full season. Its just terrible.

UC holds it destiny in its hands, but they have a very tough road into the NCAA tourney. One win puts you on the fringe and two gives you some breathing room. Not only are these games big for the NCAA tourney, but they still have a shot at a first round bye in the BE if they finish in the top 8. We'll see how it all plays out, but its definately crunch time for the Cats.

NorrisHopper30
02-25-2010, 03:54 PM
14-32 by the way..don't give em too much credit.

SeeinRed
02-26-2010, 10:59 AM
In today's issue of Sporting News Today there is a story written by Mike DeCourcy (http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20100226?pg=2#pg21)about the possible parallels of Purdue's Robbie Hummel injury and Kenyon Martin's injury in 99-00. He makes some interesting points about the ripple effect Martin's injury may have had across the country. The most interesting thought though links Martin's injury to Huggins' dismissal. The point is if Martin doesn't get injured and UC makes a deep run into the tourney, does Huggins get fired?

I'd say it would've been harder, but the board was pretty determined to get him out of UC. I don't think that year alone would've save Huggins' job at UC. I know that it doesn't help the current situation to think about what if, but it is interesting to think how much of a different course UC could be on right now if not for that one freak injury.

joshnky
02-26-2010, 11:26 AM
I'd say it would've been harder, but the board was pretty determined to get him out of UC. I don't think that year alone would've save Huggins' job at UC. I know that it doesn't help the current situation to think about what if, but it is interesting to think how much of a different course UC could be on right now if not for that one freak injury.

I think if that team won the championship, and they were the odds-on favorite all season, Huggins would still be at UC.

Boston Red
02-26-2010, 11:40 AM
That UC team was a lot better than this Purdue team.

paintmered
02-26-2010, 09:27 PM
That UC team was a lot better than this Purdue team.

This. UC was the clear #1 team during the regular season, and Martin was the National Player of the Year. Purdue is a good team and were looking at the third or fourth 1-seed. Also, UC didn't have a chance to regroup since the Martin injury occurred in the C-USA tourney and UC lost the game. Purdue still has a few weeks to regroup.

The only parallel in college basketball today that could rival what UC experienced in 2000 would be if Kentucky lost John Wall in the SEC tourney. John Wall >> Robbie Hummel, and that's not a knock on Hummel.

K-Mart breaking his ankle is the ultimate "what-if" for UC fans.

SeeinRed
02-27-2010, 11:12 AM
This. UC was the clear #1 team during the regular season, and Martin was the National Player of the Year. Purdue is a good team and were looking at the third or fourth 1-seed. Also, UC didn't have a chance to regroup since the Martin injury occurred in the C-USA tourney and UC lost the game. Purdue still has a few weeks to regroup.

The only parallel in college basketball today that could rival what UC experienced in 2000 would be if Kentucky lost John Wall in the SEC tourney. John Wall >> Robbie Hummel, and that's not a knock on Hummel.

K-Mart breaking his ankle is the ultimate "what-if" for UC fans.


This is all true. The whole parallel thing isn't the part of the story that I found interesting though. I just though it is an interesting what-if for UC fans and not only for that season, but ramifications for the next decade plus that event would have.

There are a couple reasons I don't think Huggs would be here if that injury didn't happen. First one is that there is no certainty that UC would go on to win a National Chapionship or even make it to the final four. They were a great team for sure though. The second reason is Huggins was still putting very good teams on the court year after year. Its not like UC was caught in a trend of mediocrity and fans weren't showing up to games. Success on the court was not a factor in firing Bob Huggins IMO. There was a lot more to that situation than just the reputation Huggins was bringing to UC through the players he recruited also.

Of course its just my opinion and there is no way to prove it right or wrong. I can definately see the other side of the argument being just a plausible as mine.

The reality is UC is stuck in a pretty tough place, but that position can get better with a win tonight and another win in the final two games. I don't want to get this tread off topic, I just thought it would be an interesting bit for discussion while waiting for todays game.

Reds4Life
02-27-2010, 01:25 PM
This is all true. The whole parallel thing isn't the part of the story that I found interesting though. I just though it is an interesting what-if for UC fans and not only for that season, but ramifications for the next decade plus that event would have.

There are a couple reasons I don't think Huggs would be here if that injury didn't happen. First one is that there is no certainty that UC would go on to win a National Chapionship or even make it to the final four. They were a great team for sure though. The second reason is Huggins was still putting very good teams on the court year after year. Its not like UC was caught in a trend of mediocrity and fans weren't showing up to games. Success on the court was not a factor in firing Bob Huggins IMO. There was a lot more to that situation than just the reputation Huggins was bringing to UC through the players he recruited also.

Of course its just my opinion and there is no way to prove it right or wrong. I can definately see the other side of the argument being just a plausible as mine.

The reality is UC is stuck in a pretty tough place, but that position can get better with a win tonight and another win in the final two games. I don't want to get this tread off topic, I just thought it would be an interesting bit for discussion while waiting for todays game.

It would take nothing short of devine intervention for UC to keep up with Nova, IMO. They are a VERY good team, possible final 4 team, IMO. We can't score, and Nova has guards that will probably light us up like a christmas tree. I don't think the odds against WVU or G'Town are much better.

I don't know if Bob would have been here or not, depening on what happened in 2000, but I think everyone can agree that Zimpher pulled off her power play at the worst possible time UC basketball, and handled it in the worst manner possible.

Right now, UC is going to have a tough road to compete in the Big East. Something like 25% of the league has a HOF coach, or one who will be at somepoint. Calhoun, Pitino and Boehiem have all won at least one national title. That doesn't even include Huggs with 500+ career wins, and guys like Jay Wright who has made himself into an elite coach.

LoganBuck
02-27-2010, 03:46 PM
This game has the look of a second half meltdown.

texasdave
02-27-2010, 04:25 PM
Bearcats showing their mettle today leading 48-42 with about 16 minutes left in the 2nd half. Go Cats!

Reds4Life
02-27-2010, 04:28 PM
Bearcats showing their mettle today leading 48-42 with about 16 minutes left in the 2nd half. Go Cats!

Refs are doing everything they can to put WVU into this game. More than a 2:1 disparity in the foul calling. 6 team fouls on WVU, 15 on UC.

texasdave
02-27-2010, 04:45 PM
59-58 Mountaineers at the 8 minute mark. Gates with zero rebounds according to CNNSI. :eek:

texasdave
02-27-2010, 05:11 PM
WVU up 69-65 with 48 seconds left. Close doesn't count. 48 seconds of execution and toughness please.

NorrisHopper30
02-27-2010, 05:17 PM
Not one to normally complain about refs, but Bob Donato needs to be suspended that was a terrible performance by the reffing crew.

texasdave
02-27-2010, 05:21 PM
Not to be today. WVU 74 UC 68. Cats beat on the boards 33-24 as Yancy Gates pulls down air - not a single rebound. Foul discrepancy was huge (26 on the Cats, 13 on Mountaineers). NIT anyone?

Edit: Fair or not, I think the Refs were extremely homerific today. Sour Grapes to be sure. But the officiating was not even-handed.

SeeinRed
03-01-2010, 09:24 AM
Not to be today. WVU 74 UC 68. Cats beat on the boards 33-24 as Yancy Gates pulls down air - not a single rebound. Foul discrepancy was huge (26 on the Cats, 13 on Mountaineers). NIT anyone?

Edit: Fair or not, I think the Refs were extremely homerific today. Sour Grapes to be sure. But the officiating was not even-handed.


There foul discrepancy was especially bothersome considering the physicality of both teams, UC may have deserved most of their foul calls but WVU deserved just as many. The problem I really had with it is that foul trouble could have very well cost UC the game. I also saw 2 or 3 occasions where WVU players took some extra steps right in front of an official that wasn't called. Those weren't even close. Lack of execution is what ultimately cost them down the stretch, but the officiating did them no favors to be sure.

texasdave
03-02-2010, 09:52 PM
Aren't teams supposed to improve as the year progresses? Mick remains 0 for March as the Bearcats' head coach.

Reds4Life
03-02-2010, 10:33 PM
Aren't teams supposed to improve as the year progresses? Mick remains 0 for March as the Bearcats' head coach.

Not a Mick supporter these days, but not much to complain about in game tonight. They played hard for a change, they just got beat by a better team. Nova ain't top 10 for nothing.

They played much better than I expected. I was thinking a 20+ point butt whipping.

bucksfan2
03-03-2010, 09:22 AM
Not a Mick supporter these days, but not much to complain about in game tonight. They played hard for a change, they just got beat by a better team. Nova ain't top 10 for nothing.

They played much better than I expected. I was thinking a 20+ point butt whipping.

Plenty for me to complain about. Mick tends to waste minutes by playing poor players. During a 3 minute stretch Mick had Vaughn, Wright, Toyloy, Thomas, and Dixon. You can't give away minutes in Big East play like Mick does. The T that Mick got was unacceptable. You don't do that to a team who has played a very good 5 minutes or so of basketball to erase a 10 pt deficit.

SeeinRed
03-03-2010, 09:29 AM
Not a Mick supporter these days, but not much to complain about in game tonight. They played hard for a change, they just got beat by a better team. Nova ain't top 10 for nothing.

They played much better than I expected. I was thinking a 20+ point butt whipping.


Agree there. UC has had a very tough schedule. They are actually playing like they want to win and thats something I don't think I would've said at some points during this season. Last night we actually saw hustle and more team play although it is still not where it needs to be. UC could've won that game and it would've been huge.

I saw at one point during the second half Villanova was shooting 56% to UC's 38%. The fact that the hung around and had a chance to win was amazing in itself. UC continues to hurt themselves with spells of poor shot selection and just standing around on the offensive end.

On a side note, was I the only one happy to see Mick get the Technical last night. I always thought that he was not vocal enough to the officials. It really seemed to get the team fired up, and it was kind of funny watching his assistant who is twice his size hold him back.

Redlegs212
03-03-2010, 09:48 AM
I dont understand why Larry Davis even sees the court..

bucksfan2
03-03-2010, 11:34 AM
Agree there. UC has had a very tough schedule. They are actually playing like they want to win and thats something I don't think I would've said at some points during this season. Last night we actually saw hustle and more team play although it is still not where it needs to be. UC could've won that game and it would've been huge.

I saw at one point during the second half Villanova was shooting 56% to UC's 38%. The fact that the hung around and had a chance to win was amazing in itself. UC continues to hurt themselves with spells of poor shot selection and just standing around on the offensive end.

On a side note, was I the only one happy to see Mick get the Technical last night. I always thought that he was not vocal enough to the officials. It really seemed to get the team fired up, and it was kind of funny watching his assistant who is twice his size hold him back.

UC did play hard last night but Mick put the team at a disadvantage. You can't give away minutes of a basketball game by having poor players on the court. You just can't win games when players like Thomas, Davis, Wright get important minutes on the court. You can't win games when Bishop thinks hes a 3 point shooter.

Teams are too good in the Big East and UC's depth isn't that good to warrant going 10-11 players deep on a given night. So that is where I think Mick screwed up last night. Keeping Davis, Thomas, Toyloy, and Wright on the court at the same time.

NorrisHopper30
03-03-2010, 12:01 PM
Cats have played well the last two games, too bad they were against top 10 teams. Play like this earlier in the year and you don't have to win these games...there is still a small glimmer of hope if they can beat Georgetown then win 2-3 games in the BE tourney. Otherwise it looks like NIT.

texasdave
03-03-2010, 01:45 PM
After watching the 'Cats play Maryland, Vanderbilt and Gonzaga out in Maui, did anyone think this team would be grasping at NIT straws come March? I certainly didn't.

SeeinRed
03-04-2010, 10:48 AM
UC did play hard last night but Mick put the team at a disadvantage. You can't give away minutes of a basketball game by having poor players on the court. You just can't win games when players like Thomas, Davis, Wright get important minutes on the court. You can't win games when Bishop thinks hes a 3 point shooter.

Teams are too good in the Big East and UC's depth isn't that good to warrant going 10-11 players deep on a given night. So that is where I think Mick screwed up last night. Keeping Davis, Thomas, Toyloy, and Wright on the court at the same time.


I will agree that Mick's substitution patterns are mind boggling. Davis has no business being on the floor for as long as he has been this year. Toyloy has stretches of usefulness, but is mostly just a big body to clog the middle with very little actual skill it would seem. Thomas is useful as a complement to Gates when Gates is on the floor, but I'd rather see Bishop out there. Wright has been about as inconsistent as anyone on the team and really has only shown flashes of what he was said to be.

IMO, there are three players that you have to concentrate on with UC. Vaughn, Gates, and of course Stephenson. I don't think there is any excuse not to have at least two of those three on the floor at the same time for 38-40 minutes a game. I'm sorry, but no combination on this team will make up for the lack of two of those three at the same time.

Having said that, I really don't think that substitutions were the reason they lost the Nova game. They could've beat Marquette with Gates playing some of those final 12 minutes though.

Really, I think Micks biggest problems are that he doesn't seem to coach in a style that fits his team. He coaches like they are a team that can go 9-10 deep. The way I see it, they have 6 players who can give you quality minutes. There are maybe 3-4 who can come off the bench and give you some positives from time to time, but they aren't players who should be out there more than a couple minutes at a time.

All in all, this was a long post to say I mostly agree with you on this issue.

bucksfan2
03-04-2010, 11:10 AM
IMO, there are three players that you have to concentrate on with UC. Vaughn, Gates, and of course Stephenson. I don't think there is any excuse not to have at least two of those three on the floor at the same time for 38-40 minutes a game. I'm sorry, but no combination on this team will make up for the lack of two of those three at the same time.

Couldn't agree more with you here. Vaughn, Gates and Stephenson need to play 35+ minutes a game barring foul trouble. Any college regular should be able to play those amounts of minutes. Heck OSU goes 6 deep and are rather successful in doing so. There are simple things to do to give players rest without losing court time. Sit them down before the TV TO's is something that Mick doesn't use.


Having said that, I really don't think that substitutions were the reason they lost the Nova game. They could've beat Marquette with Gates playing some of those final 12 minutes though.

What I saw in the Nova games was at least 7 dead minutes having only one good player on the court. That is an eternity in a college basketball game. You can't give a good team and a heck of a coach that amount of PT with a poor lineup on the court.

The Marquette game was tough because Mick had an advantage, no one could guard Gates, and he sat him at the end because Gates didn't match up well with Marquette. Hey Mick, create your own mismatches, not vice versa.


Really, I think Micks biggest problems are that he doesn't seem to coach in a style that fits his team. He coaches like they are a team that can go 9-10 deep. The way I see it, they have 6 players who can give you quality minutes. There are maybe 3-4 who can come off the bench and give you some positives from time to time, but they aren't players who should be out there more than a couple minutes at a time.

Yep. I do think Mick has some other personal problems that aren't his making. Gates is unmotivated, Vaughn has had a poor senior season, and Bishop thinks he is a 3 point shooter. Stephenson is a freshman, has had his freshman struggles, but needs to see the court much more. You don't learn by sitting on the bench. His needs to play and needs to experience the growing pains. He is the one true player that has difference making ability.



All in all, this was a long post to say I mostly agree with you on this issue.

:thumbup:

texasdave
03-06-2010, 02:50 PM
As ugly a 20 minutes of basketball as you will likely ever see. How do they bring back Mick now? Seriously. Is Mike Thomas watching this? Aside from Lance Stephenson do you see any heart or hustle or skill? Why Lance would want to come back and subject himself to another year of this nonsense is a mystery. A (likely) first-round loss in the BET and not even the NIT is going to come calling. An opening-game loss in the BET would mean the Cats dropped 9 of their last 12. Mick's late-season freefalls continue unabated. Please put Cronin's coaching career out of its misery. I think at this point is it even relevant that he can semi-recruit? He simply can't coach anyone up.

NorrisHopper30
03-06-2010, 03:02 PM
Mick is coming back and he was always coming back.

Boston Red
03-06-2010, 03:52 PM
They can't afford to fire him. Next year has to be do or die for him, though.

Hoosier Red
03-06-2010, 04:15 PM
Well the team certainly responded well to the news Mick was coming back.

Reds4Life
03-06-2010, 04:36 PM
They might not even make the NIT at this rate. Bringing Cronin back for another year is totally pointless. Just get rid of him and get it over with.

LoganBuck
03-06-2010, 04:54 PM
They might make the NIT at this rate.

Fixed it for you.

NorrisHopper30
03-06-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm not a big fan of Cronin, but when we hired him I said he deserves 5 years to fix the mess. He gets one more year, the only reason it's disappointing is he's recruited enough talent here that we should've been in the tournament this year.

Reds4Life
03-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Was nice to see the senior leader, Deonta Vaughn, step up with another amazing 2 point performance today. :rolleyes:

Thankfully we only have to watch him stand around and do nothing for a few more games. If anybody ever asks who is the most overrated Bearcat of all time, look no further than Mr. Vaughn.

Sea Ray
03-07-2010, 01:15 PM
Was nice to see the senior leader, Deonta Vaughn, step up with another amazing 2 point performance today. :rolleyes:

Thankfully we only have to watch him stand around and do nothing for a few more games. If anybody ever asks who is the most overrated Bearcat of all time, look no further than Mr. Vaughn.

Damon Flint should be considered for the award

Sea Ray
03-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Let's look at two teams the Bearcats played to a stalemate earlier in the year, Gonzaga and Xavier. Both of those teams are now well on their way to decent seeds in the NCAA while UC will have to sweat out an NIT bid.

Why?

What's happened since December? Why did those teams improve over the past 2-3 months and UC has digressed? I think those are questions to ask if we are to pin point where UC's problems lie. It seems to me the answer has to come back to Mick. It's something he's not doing right. Is it something he can correct or is it a weakness in him that's innate?

If UC is going to insist on keeping him around it would behoove them to answer this issue and ask for Mick to change what he's doing.

Reds4Life
03-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Let's look at two teams the Bearcats played to a stalemate earlier in the year, Gonzaga and Xavier. Both of those teams are now well on their way to decent seeds in the NCAA while UC will have to sweat out an NIT bid.

Why?

What's happened since December? Why did those teams improve over the past 2-3 months and UC has digressed? I think those are questions to ask if we are to pin point where UC's problems lie. It seems to me the answer has to come back to Mick. It's something he's not doing right. Is it something he can correct or is it a weakness in him that's innate?

If UC is going to insist on keeping him around it would behoove them to answer this issue and ask for Mick to change what he's doing.


This is from Lance's blog. UC's record down the stretch under Cronin has been horrid. He hasn't won a single game in March his entire time at UC, not one.



UC down the stretch under Mick
'06-07: 1-11 in last 12
'07-08: 0-7 in last 7...including CBI loss
'08-09: 1-6 in last 7...including losing final four games
'09-10: have lost 6 of last 7 and 7 of the last 9
Mick is 0-12 in March at UC
2006-07: 0-1
2007-08: 0-5
2008-09: 0-4
2009-10: 0-2

joshnky
03-07-2010, 02:57 PM
This is from Lance's blog. UC's record down the stretch under Cronin has been horrid. He hasn't won a single game in March his entire time at UC, not one.

So, its safe to say that Louisville will be playing Rutgers, not UC, in the second round of the BET? I fully expect Louisville to come up extremely flat so I was excited to see them paired with the Rutgers-UC winner.

texasdave
03-10-2010, 01:01 AM
Bearcats sneak by Rutgers on a Lance Stephenson free throw with less than two seconds remaining. Mick gets the March Monkey off his back. Louisville awaits tomorrow. It certainly wouldn't be the biggest upset in the world if UC knocked off the Cardinals. On a very related note: Bishop didn't make the trip to New York. The ever-popular 'violation of team rules' once again rears its ugly head.

SeeinRed
03-10-2010, 09:21 AM
Bearcats sneak by Rutgers on a Lance Stephenson free throw with less than two seconds remaining. Mick gets the March Monkey off his back. Louisville awaits tomorrow. It certainly wouldn't be the biggest upset in the world if UC knocked off the Cardinals. On a very related note: Bishop didn't make the trip to New York. The ever-popular 'violation of team rules' once again rears its ugly head.


Losing Bishop could really hurt. One has to wonder how bad it was if Mick decided to keep him at home when a lot is riding on this tournament.

I hate to nit pick wins, but UC really needs a lot more movement on the offensive end. It just boggles the mind that Mick hasn't fixed that problem yet. Cashmere was a liability on the defensive end as well last night. Also, what I can only assume to be Bucksfan's favorite lineup was put out there again.;) Why does Mick continue to put players like Davis, Wright, and Toyloy on the floor at the same time? I understand you have to play for 5 straight days, but rotate players instead of putting a whole new lineup on the floor.

Was it just me, or was Wilks having a whale of a game in the first half? It also seemed as if he barely saw the floor in the second half. Maybe I just didn't see him. How does he not play more in the second half last night?

All in all, I'm pleased that UC got away with a win. However, playing like that will not get you many more wins in the tournament. Maybe they just needed this game to break through mentally that they can win in March.

bucksfan2
03-10-2010, 09:46 AM
Losing Bishop could really hurt. One has to wonder how bad it was if Mick decided to keep him at home when a lot is riding on this tournament.

It really depends on what Bishop shows up. If its Bishop the 3 point gunner then its a good thing he is gone. If it is Bishop the defender and slasher then its a tough loss. I sure don't miss Bishop's 2-3 air balled 3 pointers per game.


I hate to nit pick wins, but UC really needs a lot more movement on the offensive end. It just boggles the mind that Mick hasn't fixed that problem yet. Cashmere was a liability on the defensive end as well last night. Also, what I can only assume to be Bucksfan's favorite lineup was put out there again.;) Why does Mick continue to put players like Davis, Wright, and Toyloy on the floor at the same time? I understand you have to play for 5 straight days, but rotate players instead of putting a whole new lineup on the floor.

You nailed it. I just watched the 1st half and I don't know why Mick continues to use that lineup. Someone needs to tell him to stop. When you are playing against a less talented team, a la Rutgers, it may work, but it won't work against UL.

Was it just me, or was Wilks having a whale of a game in the first half? It also seemed as if he barely saw the floor in the second half. Maybe I just didn't see him. How does he not play more in the second half last night?

Wilks was having a good scoring half but to me it was luck. One follow up dunk, one layup off a great pass by Stephenson, and one bad 3 that went in. His 9 first half points were a bonus, but if you keep going to that well you will get burnt.


All in all, I'm pleased that UC got away with a win. However, playing like that will not get you many more wins in the tournament. Maybe they just needed this game to break through mentally that they can win in March.

I just watched the 1st half but some things that should have been ironed out by now weren't. Wright taking a 3 from damn near half court. Wright throwing up a contested layup with no shot clock but 10 seconds left on the game clock. Wright not playing good defense. You saw glimpses of why Stephenson is so good. He runs the court, is dynamic in the open court, has size, strength, speed, etc. Why he isn't on the court for 35+ minutes a game is besides me. He should be as dominant as Jordan Crawford but Mick doesn't play him. Mick, play him, let him make his mistakes, let him be dynamic, let him play. UC is much better with Lance on the court making mistakes than they are without him on the court.

SeeinRed
03-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Wilks was having a good scoring half but to me it was luck. One follow up dunk, one layup off a great pass by Stephenson, and one bad 3 that went in. His 9 first half points were a bonus, but if you keep going to that well you will get burnt.


I will agree that Wilks is not the best player, but he does bring a lot of energy to the floor. I'd much rather see him on the floor than Larry Davis or even Wright at times. Granted, I don't think you go with Wilks over any of the starting five, but I would still put him in for 5 or 6 minutes in the second half until he shows that he is ineffective. There may have been luck involved in the first half, but he is always around the play. He seems to be everywhere on the floor. Good things can happen when you play the way he does.

I don't think he deserves to play for the whole half or even start the second half, I just think he should've been put back in before Larry Davis.