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View Full Version : A trade that would be great for the Reds



fewfirstchoice
11-19-2008, 09:53 PM
So KC got a CF in Crisp and they are reports about them wanting to trade a OF now. If I were WJ Im on the phone now offering Bailey, Dickerson, and an A ball prospect for Dejesus. He will be under control for 2 more years and he would solve the Reds CF and leadoff holes. Not to mention hes right handed. I know that package maybe a little steep but if the Reds want to win this is a trade they need to check in on.

757690
11-19-2008, 10:21 PM
DeJesus is really good, but he really is not any better than Dickerson, except in the area of experience. Here are DeJesus' career numbers:

.287 .360 .422

Here are Dickerson's minor league career numbers:

.260 .360 .415

And Dickerson showed that he could hit major league pitching in Sept. Even if you think that Dickerson's numbers might be something like .250 .340 .400, I don't see the need to trade away Bailey to get that improvement.

Unless you are sold that Dickerson will be Brandon Larson, then there is no reason to using resources to get DeJesus.

Emin3mShady07
11-19-2008, 10:32 PM
So KC got a CF in Crisp and they are reports about them wanting to trade a OF now. If I were WJ Im on the phone now offering Bailey, Dickerson, and an A ball prospect for Dejesus. He will be under control for 2 more years and he would solve the Reds CF and leadoff holes. Not to mention hes right handed. I know that package maybe a little steep but if the Reds want to win this is a trade they need to check in on.

That is way too much to offer for just David DeJesus. Before the White Sox traded Nick Swisher, A deal sending Jermaine Dye and a filler or two to the Reds for Homer Bailey was considered great return for Dye. Dye has slighty better numbers than Dejusus over the past few years,
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dyeje01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dejesda01.shtml
so there would be absolutely no reason to give up a prospect with as high of a ceiling as Bailey for Dejesus. And Dejesus is certainly not a right handed hitter.

Stephenk29
11-20-2008, 12:09 AM
Yeah that's a lot to offer for him. Although I do like him a lot too. Maybe several prospects could nab him. Not someone you want to overpay for at all. I agree with Marshall Mathers, Dye would be a better option, especially if your going to overpay.

schmidty622
11-20-2008, 07:13 AM
I'd actually prefer Dejesus over Dye because it is a move that would be good for the long term and it wouldn't cost you as much in salary or prospects. He'd be a nice guy to have as your starting CF/LF during the youth movement. His power numbers would probably be helped in GABP and he plays a good outfield. He could also be an ok leadoff hitter in front of some combination of Votto, Alonso, Bruce, Phillips, Frazier, EE, and Hanigan.

For next year an outfield of LF Votto/Encarnation - CF Dejesus - RF Bruce would actually be pretty nice. And Dickerson would still get a lot of ABs as the 4th OF and a guy who could spell the others at all three positions.

I also don't think that the Reds would have too much trouble signing Dejesus long term. He doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to command top dollar due to his relitively low counting stats.

All in all I would love to see Dejesus brought in and I hope Walt is on the phone right now. I'd send them Homer and wouldn't bat an eye if thats what it took to get it done.

schmidty622
11-20-2008, 07:17 AM
Oh, and he has Club option in his contract for 2011. So he is actually under team control for 3 years.

redsfandan
11-21-2008, 07:58 AM
everyone seems to love dejesus and he is a nice player but i think kc likes him alot too so you'd probably have to overpay for him which i'm not in favor of.

Newman4
11-21-2008, 11:18 PM
I like DeJesus ok, but not for Bailey. Homer is still a pretty good prospect and I wouldn't sell low on him just yet.

BEETTLEBUG
11-21-2008, 11:24 PM
Would anyone want Jose Guillen for RH bat they know him?

Emin3mShady07
11-22-2008, 12:41 AM
Would anyone want Jose Guillen for RH bat they know him?

No. Jose Guillen = Adam Dunn on defense, maybe not that bad, but bad.
Jose Guillen = Mark Grudzielanek on offense with less OBP and more slugging

Anyways, Guillen had a .738 OPS last year and really isn't getting any younger. He did post a .813 OPS in Seattle in 07, but that was driven up by a BABIP .46 points above his expected BABIP base on his LD % (16.0%, .326 BABIP) He is also under contract for 2009 and 2010 for $12 million per year and that is a terrible contract for the production Guillen has had.

Ghosts of 1990
11-22-2008, 08:12 AM
I like Dickerson better than Dejesus. I don't understand everyone's hurry here to trade Bailey. I think his value could come up significantly with a full year starting in the big leagues. He deserves at least that.

redsfandan
11-22-2008, 09:55 AM
hell i only have to look at this years AL mvp candidates to see examples of when a team gave up on a player too soon. unless there's a trade that really makes sense i'd hold onto bailey for now.

Jose Guillen just makes too much.

just an idea but what would people think of Franklin Gutierrez? i've seen his name floated aound a few times and while i know he wouldn't povide as much offense as we'd like he is a plus defender that's cheap and could possibly have a .270 20/20 season in him.

Orodle
11-22-2008, 03:35 PM
I was a big Jose Guillen fan but injuries have caught up to him. And although he still has a good arm he use to have one of the best arms ever. That shoulder injury did his arm in. That throw from the RF corner to 3B when he was with the Pirates.....still looks impossible.

Dejesus isnt much different than what we already got.

I(heart)Freel
11-23-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm for the trade if only for the number of times I could quote The Big Lebowski when I watched ballgames.

"Don't f*ck with DeJesus, man."

My wife would be sick of it by April 20.

Slyder
11-27-2008, 01:16 AM
It maybe the sleepiness from the cold medicine, it maybe general boredom, dunno. But with all this talk of trading for a CF do you all think thered be anyway that Edwin could make the move to Center and be average defensively?

redsfandan
11-27-2008, 03:37 AM
EE in left sure. in center? i'd rather see dickerson prove '08 wasn't a fluke.

TC81190
11-28-2008, 03:53 PM
I'd trade Stubbs or Valaika and Thompson for DeJesus, but not Homer.



But now that I see we're also discussing Dye in this thread, I'd be glad to go that route as well.

Trade Thompson and Valaika for DeJesus, trade Bailey and Dickerson for Dye. Then you still have Frazier, Stubbs, and Maloney as trade chips, so you go out and get a SS with a package of a few of those guys. Maybe say Maloney and Stubbs for Khalil Greene.

CF DeJesus
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Dye
RF Bruce
3B Encarnacion
SS Greene
C Hanigan

That's not a bad lineup. Another possibility for SS could be Chone Figgins. If I remember correctly, he used to be able to play SS pretty well, although I'm not sure about now. He's also quick, and had a nice .367 OBP last year. I'm pretty sure the Angels have been trying to move him in a salary dump for a while now too, although I could be wrong about that too.

Hondo
11-28-2008, 07:22 PM
I live in Kansas now and watch the Royals all the time.... DD is a left fielder, he's only capable in Center... He is like Johnny Damon...

redsfandan
11-29-2008, 10:59 AM
I'd trade Stubbs or Valaika and Thompson for DeJesus, but not Homer.

But now that I see we're also discussing Dye in this thread, I'd be glad to go that route as well.

Trade Thompson and Valaika for DeJesus, trade Bailey and Dickerson for Dye. Then you still have Frazier, Stubbs, and Maloney as trade chips, so you go out and get a SS with a package of a few of those guys. Maybe say Maloney and Stubbs for Khalil Greene.

CF DeJesus
2B Phillips
1B Votto
LF Dye
RF Bruce
3B Encarnacion
SS Greene
C Hanigan

That's not a bad lineup. Another possibility for SS could be Chone Figgins. If I remember correctly, he used to be able to play SS pretty well, although I'm not sure about now. He's also quick, and had a nice .367 OBP last year. I'm pretty sure the Angels have been trying to move him in a salary dump for a while now too, although I could be wrong about that too.

a few observations:
- dickerson and stubbs are both known for their defense in center while kc acquired coco crisp to move dejesus from center to left.
- dejesus would cost prospects to acquire, dickerson/stubbs don't.
- dejesus is older and more expensive than dickerson/stubbs in fact dickerson/stubbs combined will still be paid only a fraction of what dejesus will make.
- it's just my opinion but i really don't see how he'd be an improvement over dickerson/stubbs in center that he'd be worth the investment (additional pay/prospects dealt) that would be required to acquire him.
- it's reasonable to expect a little dropoff from what dickerson did last year but do you think he'll just fall off a cliff? it's very possible that your trade scenario would result in 2 decent prospects dealt for a backup or platoon player. (dye/bruce wouldn't be sat down)
- you've dealt away 6 prospects (and spent roughly $20 million) to acquire the big bat in the outfield, a centerfielder that doesn't seem like a fit in center (and all indications are that he's unavailable anyway), and we'd have roughly $12 million tied into 2 shortstops that are both FA's after '09.
- while i like dye, i wouldn't pay that much for him. if you look at the trades made so far (holliday, swisher, marlins/nationals) the prospects dealt for the veterans weren't that impressive so why would we want to pay more to a team that has been said wants to unload dye? this is a buyers market, not a sellers.
- if you trade all 3 of thompson, bailey, and maloney that would kinda hurt our starting pitching depth.
- figgins isn't a ss. yes he has played ss but he's only played in 27 games there in his career and only 3 innings in the last 3 years.