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View Full Version : Who is Redszone's #17 prospect?



OnBaseMachine
11-19-2008, 11:03 PM
Redszone's Top Prospects

Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso
Prospect #2 - Todd Frazier
Prospect #3 - Neftali Soto
Prospect #4 - Drew Stubbs
Prospect #5 - Chris Valaika
Prospect #6 - Kyle Lotzkar
Prospect #7 - Daryl Thompson
Prospect #8 - Juan Francisco
Prospect #9 - Juan Duran
Prospect #10 - Chris Dickerson
Prospect #11 - Devin Mesoraco
Prospect #12 - Danny Dorn
Prospect #13 - Yorman Rodriguez
Prospect #14 - Zach Stewart
Prospect #15 - Josh Roenicke
Prospect #16 - Ramon Ramirez

dougdirt
11-19-2008, 11:09 PM
Carlos Fisher again. Big tall pitcher, fastball up to 95 MPH, good breaking ball, gets 61% groundballs and strikes out plenty of guys.

OnBaseMachine
11-19-2008, 11:11 PM
I went with Carlos Fisher. He's got a big durable frame and possesses the stuff to be a very good major league reliever. He could break camp with the Reds if he has a solid spring training, but more realistically he begins in Triple-A Louisville and gets called up to Cincy sometime during the summer. Fisher, Roenicke, and Stewart could form one heck of a bullpen by 2010. Plus we have Bray, Burton, and Cordero already in the majors. Viola could be apart of that if the Reds decide his future is in the bullpen.

BigRed07
11-19-2008, 11:13 PM
I'm going with a prospect who has done nothing but produce on the field every year. He has a better career batting avg than #5 prospect Valaika.
He has put up better numbers in the AFL this year. If Valaika stats put him in the Top 5, Turners stats should put him in the Top 20 and I'm voting for him again at #17.
His career stats are:
Code:

Avg OBP SLG OPS
.310 .377 .445 .822 (Turner)
.306 .357 .467 .824 (Valaika)

dougdirt
11-19-2008, 11:21 PM
I'm going with a prospect who has done nothing but produce on the field every year. He has a better career batting avg than #5 prospect Valaika.
He has put up better numbers in the AFL this year. If Valaika stats put him in the Top 5, Turners stats should put him in the Top 20 and I'm voting for him again at #17.
His career stats are:
Code:

Avg OBP SLG OPS
.310 .377 .445 .822 (Turner)
.306 .357 .467 .824 (Valaika)
Thats the thing, its not Valaika's stats that put him there, its his stats, position and projection at the major league level that put him there.

Kc61
11-19-2008, 11:36 PM
Cozart. A shortstop with his defense and potentially reasonable bat should be off the board at this
point.

Surprised Lecure isn't getting any votes. He was sensational for two stretches last year, with an injury in between. Really emerged at AA last year, should be at AAA next year. May turn out better than back of the rotation.

Jordan Smith and Sean Watson should please be added next time. Thanks.

OnBaseMachine
11-19-2008, 11:41 PM
I'll add Smith and Watson to the next poll. I actually re-read the last thread just before I started this one to see if I missed any new names that needed to be added and somehow I looked over your post. I also plan on adding Ismael Guillon and Junior Arias sometime in the near future.

Kc61
11-19-2008, 11:44 PM
I'll add Smith and Watson to the next poll. I actually re-read the last thread just before I started this one to see if I missed any new names that needed to be added and somehow I looked over your post. I also plan on adding Ismael Guillon and Junior Arias sometime in the near future.

Thanks. Not sure I know much about Guillon or Arias. Are they new to the system?

OnBaseMachine
11-19-2008, 11:57 PM
Thanks. Not sure I know much about Guillon or Arias. Are they new to the system?

Guillon is a 16 year old LHP who was recently signed out of Venezuela in late October for $625,000. He throws a 88-92 mph fastball and has an advanced changeup for his age. Saber scouting rated him as the 13th best prospect in the 2008 International class. Arias was signed out of the Dominican Republic in July for $330,000. He's a slick fielding shortstop with great athleticism and good potential with the bat. An elbow injury prevented him from receiving a higher signing bonus, but he's healthy now.

Here's more on Guillon from BA:

Posted Oct. 29, 2008 12:29 pm by J.J. Cooper
Filed under: International

After making a big splash by signing outfielders Yorman Rodriguez and Juan Duran, the Reds have added an intriguing international arm by signing lefthander Ismael Guillon.

Guillon was one of the last high profile prospects Premium from this years crop who had not signed around the July 2 international signing date.

Guillon, 16, has played first base and pitched for scouts, but the Reds interest came from his work on the mound. The 6-foot-3 lefthander has been clocked at between 88-92 mph. He also has an advanced changeup considering his age. Some scouts from other teams had concerns about his arm action and his delivery, which was described as funky, but the Reds believe hes a relatively polished pitcher for a teenager who still has some projection left despite a relatively developed frame.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1763

More on Junior Arias:

The Reds signed Dominican shortstop Junior Arias, a strong-arm athlete with significant upside.

Hes a good-looking kid, one scout told Baseball America. Hes got good hands, hes a good athlete and hes got good body control. Hes a line-drive hitter with a short stroke to the ball.

http://baseballdeworld.com/2008/07/22/latin-american-prospects-reaping-huge-signing-bonuses/

Kc61
11-20-2008, 12:10 AM
Thanks for the info.

BigRed07
11-20-2008, 12:38 AM
Thats the thing, its not Valaika's stats that put him there, its his stats, position and projection at the major league level that put him there.

I agree and that's why Chris is #5. I'm not one of those guy's who gets all hyped up on how a player projects. You can use projections to rate a 1st year player. After 2 or 3 years of minor league ball, stats need to weigh more into the equation than how a player projects. I don't understand how Stubbs is rated above Valaika. If Stubbs was a 5th round pick, would he be a better prospect than Valaika today? Based on the first three years in the minors, the numbers say no. I want the guy in my line up that is going to produce on the field, not the one that looks good on paper but continues to put up sub par numbers. I think Turner's on the field performance puts him in the top 20 IMO.

AmarilloRed
11-20-2008, 12:54 AM
Carlos Fisher for me. He did really well after being promoted to Louisville.

JayBruceFan
11-20-2008, 01:08 AM
Chris Heisey

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 02:02 AM
Ryan Hanigan. IMO Everybody else on the list projects as a bench player, long shot BOR starter, or non-impact relief pitcher...

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 02:16 AM
Ryan Hanigan. IMO Everybody else on the list projects as a bench player, long shot BOR starter, or non-impact relief pitcher...

I disagree somewhat with that. Carlos Fisher has the stuff to be an impact reliever IMO. Juan Carlos Sulbaran is very young but possesses three pitches that are already average or better. Dallas Buck has a chance to be a #2/3 starter if he regains his velocity post TJ surgery. Buchholz looks like a sleeper and Hildenbrandt has a nice fastball/curveball combo. I really like what I've read and seen from Sulbaran and Dallas Buck is very intriguing IMO.

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 02:17 AM
I disagree somewhat with that. Carlos Fisher has the stuff to be an impact reliever IMO. Juan Carlos Sulbaran is very young but possesses three pitches that are already average or better. Dallas Buck has a chance to be a #2/3 starter if he regains his velocity post TJ surgery. Buchholz looks like a sleeper and Hildenbrandt has a nice fastball/curveball combo. I really like what I've read and seen from Sulbaran and Dallas Buck is very intriguing IMO.

You're right, there are still some guys with high ceilings, but I don't like the odds of any of them reaching it. At this point, I'll take the catcher I know will be on the Opening Day roster over those long shots...

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 04:25 AM
You're right, there are still some guys with high ceilings, but I don't like the odds of any of them reaching it. At this point, I'll take the catcher I know will be on the Opening Day roster over those long shots...

Let me ask this, what makes Carlos Fisher a long shot? The guy has a sinker up to 95 MPH, big time groundball tendencies, lots of strikeouts, a big body and a solid breaking ball.

kpresidente
11-20-2008, 07:46 AM
I think Carlos Fisher vs. Robert Manuel is an interesting debate. Fisher's got better stuff, but Manuel's BB/9 (9 unintentional walks in 77 innings!?!) and K/BB rates are a thing of beauty.

BRM
11-20-2008, 09:02 AM
Ryan Hanigan. IMO Everybody else on the list projects as a bench player, long shot BOR starter, or non-impact relief pitcher...

And Ryan Hanigan projects as a backup catcher. There aren't going to be many guys at #17 who project to be superstars.

schmidty622
11-20-2008, 09:16 AM
I think Carlos Fisher vs. Robert Manuel is an interesting debate. Fisher's got better stuff, but Manuel's BB/9 (9 unintentional walks in 77 innings!?!) and K/BB rates are a thing of beauty.

Shoot, with current status of the bullpen we might need both of them up this year. And i wouldn't be too disappointed if that were to happen.

I'd probably give the edge to Manuel at this point though. His 1.49 BB/9 in the minors makes him the more MLB ready player IMO. I mean that is just outstanding, and the K rate last year was pretty nice too.

TRF
11-20-2008, 09:37 AM
Maloney and 9+k's/9IP in his minor league career to date for me.

The man gets no love.

RedlegJake
11-20-2008, 10:31 AM
Buchholz again. He's still the first guy listed.

fearofpopvol1
11-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Maloney for me.

redhawk61
11-20-2008, 11:29 AM
And Ryan Hanigan projects as a backup catcher. There aren't going to be many guys at #17 who project to be superstars.

Whats amazing though and a testament to the improvement of our farm system, is there our guys still on the board at 17 whose potential projects as starters, like Fisher, Maloney, Buchholz, Buck, Sulburan, etc.

Its truly remarkable, 8 years ago, they would have been top ten talents

Will M
11-20-2008, 11:48 AM
Whats amazing though and a testament to the improvement of our farm system, is there our guys still on the board at 17 whose potential projects as starters, like Fisher, Maloney, Buchholz, Buck, Sulburan, etc.

Its truly remarkable, 8 years ago, they would have been top ten talents

this is exactly what i was going to post. the Reds system has amazing depth.
Obrien & Krivsky weren't great GMs but they sure revitalized the farm system.

Orenda
11-20-2008, 12:44 PM
My one criticism is the starting pitching. I'd like to see the reds go pitching heavy in next years draft.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 01:08 PM
My one criticism is the starting pitching. I'd like to see the reds go pitching heavy in next years draft.

I often see this posed in a 'Reds don't have enough starting pitching in the minors'.... and I have to ask, where does it come from?

Our AAA rotation could easily be Homer Bailey, Ramon Ramirez, Matt Maloney, Daryl Thompson and Sam Lecure next year. In AA there will be at least Travis Wood and Jordan Smith who had rough introductions to AA, but both have plenty of potential and are not old. Pedro Viola will also be starting in either AA or in AAA. High A looks like it will have a few tweener guys, but Jeremy Horst should be there along with them. Low A could have Kyle Lotzkar, Juan Carlos Sulbaran and Evan Hildenbrandt.

So just those listed are:
AA/AAA
Homer Bailey
Ramon Ramirez
Matt Maloney
Daryl Thompson
Sam Lecure
Travis Wood
Jordan Smith
Pedro Viola
A/A+
Jeremy Horst
Kyle Lotzkar
Juan Carlos Sulbaran
Evan Hildenbrandt

That doesn't include guys like Dallas Buck, Scott Carroll, Matt Fairel, Oscar Castro or Clayton Shunick.

Maybe its just me, but I really don't see a lack of starting pitching in the system, especially given our current 1-4 in the rotation at the MLB level that are all locked up through at least 2011.

HokieRed
11-20-2008, 01:09 PM
Hildenbrandt again. Same old argument. Starters with higher ceilings have to be given precedent over other good players.

kpresidente
11-20-2008, 01:17 PM
Maybe its just me, but I really don't see a lack of starting pitching in the system, especially given our current 1-4 in the rotation at the MLB level that are all locked up through at least 2011.

It's not so much a lack of names as it is a lack of sure-things. Thompson has injuries, Bailey's got all kinds of troubles, Lotzkar has 63 innings in two years, Maloney flopped a little at AAA, Ramirez is a late bloomer, Viola got hit hard last year in the pen, etc, etc.

The good thing is you only need a couple of these guys to come through for you to solidify the staff, but I think people would feel more comfortable if there was one sure-thing.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 01:30 PM
It's not so much a lack of names as it is a lack of sure-things. Thompson has injuries, Bailey's got all kinds of troubles, Lotzkar has 63 innings in two years, Maloney flopped a little at AAA, Ramirez is a late bloomer, Viola got hit hard last year in the pen, etc, etc.

The good thing is you only need a couple of these guys to come through for you to solidify the staff, but I think people would feel more comfortable if there was one sure-thing.

Maloney didn't flop a little in AAA, he was just a bit unlucky on his balls in play, which led to more hits than allowed. Same goes for Viola who had a BABIP of .389 last year in AA.

There is an old prospecting saying that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect. While I disagree with that, they are a volatile group. Since its that way, the Reds seem to have a whole lot of options to choose from with reasonable upsides if a bunch of them still flop. A lot of teams don't have that same option, much less sitting between AA/AAA.

Orenda
11-20-2008, 02:04 PM
We have some decent guys, but of those listed how many of those guys are going to be #3 starter material or better at the ML level? Its true the reds have a pretty solid staff at the major league level but that shouldn't bring complacency. If anything it allows the reds to take their time with the prospects that will be replacing them in the future. My point is that it would be a waste for the long-term success of the reds to forget about pitching, they should be looking to acquire as many plus-arms as possible in the draft or through trades with players in the low minors to develop the next crop of starters especially when they have the added luxury of time to develop them.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 02:07 PM
We have some decent guys, but of those listed how many of those guys are going to be #3 starter material or better at the ML level? Its true the reds have a pretty solid staff at the major league level but that shouldn't bring complacency. If anything it allows the reds to take their time with the prospects that will be replacing them in the future. My point is that it would be a waste for the long-term success of the reds to forget about pitching, they should be looking to acquire as many plus-arms as possible in the draft or through trades with players in the low minors to develop the next crop of starters especially when they have the added luxury of time to develop them.

Every year nearly every team goes about 50/50 on position guys and pitchers. They never forget about pitching but never focus solely on it either. If you do either, you are likely losing out big time. As for how many of those guys are going to be #3's, I guess I have to ask what your definition of a #3 is, because mine is probably quite a bit different than yours is.

Orenda
11-20-2008, 02:18 PM
My definition of a quality #3 would be a guy who could give you 180-200ip of 4-4.5 era consistently.

BRM
11-20-2008, 02:35 PM
Maloney and 9+k's/9IP in his minor league career to date for me.

The man gets no love.

Looks like he gets plenty of love from you. :)

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 02:51 PM
My definition of a quality #3 would be a guy who could give you 180-200ip of 4-4.5 era consistently.

I think the innings should be a little bit lower, because there just aren't 48 guys (1's, 2's and 3's times 16 NL teams) that will give you 180+ innings consistently. But I think there are plenty of guys capable of providing 170 innings of 4.25-4.75 ERA baseball in that group. Not all will, but there are plenty to make up for some not making it.

REDblooded
11-20-2008, 02:59 PM
i gotta keep plugging away with Sulbaran

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 03:36 PM
And Ryan Hanigan projects as a backup catcher. There aren't going to be many guys at #17 who project to be superstars.

The average MLB catcher in 2008 hit .257/.325/.390/.715. I'm very confident Ryan Hanigan can achieve a .715 OPS and be a plus defender with his rocket arm. So, his overall package would then be a slightly above average starting catcher. Bench material?

BRM
11-20-2008, 03:39 PM
The average MLB catcher in 2008 hit .257/.325/.390/.715. I'm very confident Ryan Hanigan can achieve a .715 OPS and be a plus defender with his rocket arm. So, his overall package would then be a slightly above average starting catcher. Bench material?

It is also quite possible that he'll get exposed if he gets 200+ plate appearances. I hope you are right and he gives the Reds league average production behind the plate for a couple of years. I'm not prepared to bank on it though.

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 03:41 PM
Let me ask this, what makes Carlos Fisher a long shot? The guy has a sinker up to 95 MPH, big time groundball tendencies, lots of strikeouts, a big body and a solid breaking ball.

A long shot dominant reliever. I'm very confident he will at some point in his career be a part of a MLB bullpen.

The way I rank prospects, I'm going to put the guys I think can develop into starting position players, quality starting pitchers, and dominant relievers highest on my list. The next tier is bench players, BOR starters, and good minor league relievers. The only way a reliever can get ranked high on my list is if I think they can be an impact reliever at the next level, and I don't see that for Fisher. I see a nice, 4.00 true talent reliever with groundball tendencies...

BRM
11-20-2008, 03:51 PM
A long shot dominant reliever. I'm very confident he will at some point in his career be a part of a MLB bullpen.

The way I rank prospects, I'm going to put the guys I think can develop into starting position players, quality starting pitchers, and dominant relievers highest on my list. The next tier is bench players, BOR starters, and good minor league relievers. The only way a reliever can get ranked high on my list is if I think they can be an impact reliever at the next level, and I don't see that for Fisher. I see a nice, 4.00 true talent reliever with groundball tendencies...

I think most folks rank prospects basically the same way. I can't imagine too many people would rank a future utility player higher than someone who projects to be an everyday regular. The disagreement is in the projections, not necessarily the methodology.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 03:54 PM
I think most folks rank prospects basically the same way. I can't imagine too many people would rank a future utility player higher than someone who projects to be an everyday regular. The disagreement is in the projections, not necessarily the methodology.

Right on with what I was thinking. I guess I have to ask Baseclogger this, what constitutes a dominant reliever?

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 04:17 PM
Right on with what I was thinking. I guess I have to ask Baseclogger this, what constitutes a dominant reliever?

A true skill ERA below 3.50...

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 04:18 PM
A true skill ERA below 3.50...

Well what does a true skill ERA below 3.50 mean? Stuff? What type of stuff?

SMcGavin
11-20-2008, 04:18 PM
The average MLB catcher in 2008 hit .257/.325/.390/.715. I'm very confident Ryan Hanigan can achieve a .715 OPS and be a plus defender with his rocket arm. So, his overall package would then be a slightly above average starting catcher. Bench material?

That's the average for all catchers, including the bench guys. This plays even more at catcher than at other positions, because the backup catcher is always going to get plenty of at bats over the course of the season. If Hanigan gives the Reds 400 ABs of .715 OPS, his backup will give the Reds 150 ABs of something worse than that, and the Reds will have gotten below average production from the catcher position.

The true benchmark for an average MLB starting catcher is something higher than that .715 OPS. And, to be completely honest, it's no sure thing that Hanigan can put up even a .715 OPS given 400 or so ABs.

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 04:20 PM
Well what does a true skill ERA below 3.50 mean? Stuff? What type of stuff?

xFIP...

*BaseClogger*
11-20-2008, 04:22 PM
That's the average for all catchers, including the bench guys. This plays even more at catcher than at other positions, because the backup catcher is always going to get plenty of at bats over the course of the season. If Hanigan gives the Reds 400 ABs of .715 OPS, his backup will give the Reds 150 ABs of something worse than that, and the Reds will have gotten below average production from the catcher position.

The true benchmark for an average MLB starting catcher is something higher than that .715 OPS. And, to be completely honest, it's no sure thing that Hanigan can put up even a .715 OPS given 400 or so ABs.

You're right, but I still like his overall package of defense and high OBP. I'd rather have an OBP-driven OPS than a SLG-driven OPS, even if it means the difference between a .700 OPS and a .715 OPS...

SMcGavin
11-20-2008, 04:28 PM
I'd rather have an OBP-driven OPS than a SLG-driven OPS, even if it means the difference between a .700 OPS and a .715 OPS...

Yeah me too. Hanigan's not a bad player to have around. I'd just rather see him backing up somebody better.

dougdirt
11-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Yeah me too. Hanigan's not a bad player to have around. I'd just rather see him backing up somebody better.

Well that goes for all positions.... but given whats available at catcher, Hanigan to me is easily the best option we have or have a way to get.

BRM
11-20-2008, 04:42 PM
Well that goes for all positions.... but given whats available at catcher, Hanigan to me is easily the best option we have or have a way to get.

That's how I feel about it. He's our best option at the moment but I don't have very high expectations for him.

Redman15
11-20-2008, 06:43 PM
I agree and that's why Chris is #5. I'm not one of those guy's who gets all hyped up on how a player projects. You can use projections to rate a 1st year player. After 2 or 3 years of minor league ball, stats need to weigh more into the equation than how a player projects. I don't understand how Stubbs is rated above Valaika. If Stubbs was a 5th round pick, would he be a better prospect than Valaika today? Based on the first three years in the minors, the numbers say no. I want the guy in my line up that is going to produce on the field, not the one that looks good on paper but continues to put up sub par numbers. I think Turner's on the field performance puts him in the top 20 IMO.

It looks like the Reds think Valaika is a better prospect than Stubbs too.They designated Valaika their priority player in the Arizona Fall League.

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2008, 06:55 PM
It looks like the Reds think Valaika is a better prospect than Stubbs too.They designated Valaika their priority player in the Arizona Fall League.

Well IDK about that for sure but Valaika has definitely passed him on my personal list. Not so much the AFL results (although it helped) but this recent talk of him being a better bet to stick at SS than previously thought does it for me. I previously ranked Valaika ahead of him but basically they were almost dead even for me then.

OnBaseMachine
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
It looks like the Reds think Valaika is a better prospect than Stubbs too.They designated Valaika their priority player in the Arizona Fall League.

My guess is the Reds designated Valaika as their priority player so that he can play everyday and give the Reds a better chance to evaluate his defensive ability at shortstop.

Redman15
11-20-2008, 07:36 PM
My guess is the Reds designated Valaika as their priority player so that he can play everyday and give the Reds a better chance to evaluate his defensive ability at shortstop.

If that was the case why did he play 2B in 3 out of the last 8 games in Arizona? My guess is when Terry Reynolds was in town he asked the Javs manager to give Valaika some reps at 2B. I noticed that Stubbs got a few more starts in CF about that time too.

kheidg-
11-20-2008, 08:27 PM
Between Cozart and Maloney, I'm not even sure why this one is close. Maloney by far.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 03:06 PM
Looks like we may have to do a run-off between Cozart and Maloney unless we start getting more votes.

TRF
11-21-2008, 03:37 PM
Looks like he gets plenty of love from you. :)


yep, I have man-love for LH starters that actually get guys out.

wither Tyler Pelland... oh how you failed me.

BRM
11-21-2008, 03:40 PM
yep, I have man-love for LH starters that actually get guys out.

wither Tyler Pelland... oh how you failed me.

Maloney will get my vote if we have to do a runoff between him and Cozart.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 03:50 PM
Maloney will get my vote if we have to do a runoff between him and Cozart.

Mine too. I like Cozart but I have Maloney slightly ahead of him in my personal top 40.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2008, 07:56 PM
I like Cozart and from the very start. However people are missing something very critical too list him quite this high.

Cozart:
Age 21 Dayton - .239/.282/.339/.620 OPS
Age 22 Dayton - .280/.330/.457/.787 OPS

Mystery Player:
Age 22 Dayton - .245/.346/.385/.731 OPS
Age 23 Dayton/Sar/Chat - .304/.371/.460/.831 OPS

Now even giving Cozart the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the 1 year age difference I still don't think he's necc. any better at this point than the mystery player. If Cozart can sustain it and perhaps improve upon those #'s then I would change mind a bit perhaps. In other words it's too soon to know if those #'s are all that meaningful. And if they aren't he's far lower which means I put him somewhere between far lower and this point in the process with a little bit of a bump for playing a premium position.

BTW the mystery player is (I know some of you already know) Paul Janish. And Paul Janish hit 14 HR's, 2 Trpl's and 24 Dbl's between those 3 levels in 517 PA's while Cozart hit 14 HR's, 6 Trpl's and 20 Dbl's in 464 PA's but in Dayton alone, had Janish stayed all season in Dayton he would have possibly crushed those #'s as he was killing the ball there. Kinda makes me think they are about equal thus far so where would you rank Janish knowing what you now know about him?

Danny Serafini
11-21-2008, 10:24 PM
I was so happy when Ramon Ramirez finally won a vote, I figured my days of voting for the same person 10 times were over. Then I saw how little support Ryan Hanigan is getting. Oh well. I guess I think a bit differently than the rest of the crowd. He may not be the flashiest pick, but considering how many minor leaguers flame out, he's probably already accomplished more than many of the people on the list for this vote will.

OnBaseMachine
11-21-2008, 11:19 PM
The runoff vote between Cozart and Maloney will be open in a minute.