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Reds Fanatic
12-01-2008, 03:09 PM
Mike Brown has finally spoken on Lewis and this and I am just speechless at the level of his stupidity.

Basically Lewis is doing a good job, no need for a GM and he pretty much puts this year on Carson's injury and says the Bengals will turn it around when Carson gets back.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

From Bengals.com


With his team mired at 1-10-1, Bengals president Mike Brown broke his usual silence Monday by choosing not to give head coach Marvin Lewis and his staff a vote of confidence and instead indicated he is pleased with their effort and teaching.

Speaking with Bengals.com and The Cincinnati Enquirer, Brown said he feared that commenting either way on the subject would undercut Lewis. But he said he was pleased with Lewis' post-game statement Sunday that fans won't be subject to a season this bad next year.

"I thought that was a good statement," Brown said. "No one down here is happy with what has happened and we all want to correct it badly. That was an indication he plans on correcting it."

Lewis has two years left on his deal and despite the record Brown said, "In many ways he's done an incredibly good job. Our players still try hard and that's hard to come by when you go through all the losing this team has gone through."

As for other issues, Brown also said:

_There are "good," signs that quarterback Carson Palmer won't have to have elbow surgery and he expects the Bengals "will rebound," when he comes back.

_He expects wide receiver Chad Ocho Cinco to fulfill his Bengals contract.

_He revealed that safety Marvin White is the 21st Bengal to go on season-ending injured reserve after tearing his anterior cruciate ligament in his knee Sunday. He was extremely impressed that White played more than a half with the injury.

"I've never seen a player do that in all the time I've witnessed football. I take my hat off to him for being brave enough to do that. It (says alot) about the coaches, too, that a player would want to do that."

Brown also said they are trying to find out why they have been hit by the injury bug the past two seasons.

_He indicated he has no plans to hire a general manager.

"The answer to the general manager problem is the same answer that we have to have for all these criticisms. We have to win. When we manage to do that, we won't hear so much about that kind of talk."

In his first comments since Brown re-signed wide receiver Chris Henry despite Lewis' disagreement, Marvin and I've had a good relationship. We've had an ability to stay on the same message. Except for that one case...In mind it's behind us now.

"If you've got further concerns on that kind of thing," said Brown in alluding to Plaxico Burress, "you'll have to call the New York Giants who have an 11-1 record and their guy, who has taken the role over of NFL bad guy."

Brown also reflected on the disciplining of Ocho Cinco last week by Lewis. He says Lewis has that authority and that he sent The Ocho home from Pittsburgh without talking to Brown.

"It was the right thing to do," Brown said. "(Discipline) has been his call and it is his call and he has done it."

BoydsOfSummer
12-01-2008, 03:23 PM
"The answer to the general manager problem is the same answer that we have to have for all these criticisms. We have to win. When we manage to do that, we won't hear so much about that kind of talk."


Yeah...um...you've done that once in 20 years Bozo. It would take an act of God to remove his head from his butt.

I'd laugh, but as a Browns fan it really aint that funny. Maybe we could combine the two Ohio teams and get an average franchise?

JaxRed
12-01-2008, 03:29 PM
There honestly should be some kind of "best interest of the fans" clause the commissioner should invoke for teams like Bengals and Raiders, to impose a management team.

Matt700wlw
12-01-2008, 03:34 PM
Enquirer version....similar, but with Q and A

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081201/SPT02/312010050/1062/SPT

Brown: A 'massive disappointment'

By Mark Curnutte • mcurnutte@enquirer.com • December 1, 2008



Bengals president Mike Brown is presiding over a 1-10-1 season that has fans in an uproar over the team’s poor performance on the field.


This afternoon, Brown sat for an interview with the Enquirer and the team's official Web site.

Brown terms the season a “massive disappointment. We feel it. We’re unhappy down here. … We’re in the morass and just have to work through it.”



Question: What is Marvin Lewis’ status as head coach?

Answer: “I am not going to give one of those endorsements. They (Lewis and his coaching staff) are the same people who have been here for years now. They coach the same. They are teachers. They do their jobs.”

Q: Where have things gone wrong this season?

A: “It is hard to have success in this league without your key players. We’re playing with literally less than half of the people we thought would be our starters. … We lost Carson Palmer, who is our linchpin player. We lost our best defensive player before the season started, (linebacker) Odell Thurman.

"The linebacker corps we thought that we would be playing with was (Keith) Rivers, Thurman and (David) Pollack. They are all gone, two for good.

“When you have that kind of erosion on your football team, it is hard to be successful. We have not managed to overcome it.”

Q: Will Marvin Lewis have the chance to overcome this season?

A: “You cannot answer that question without undercutting someone. I am not going down that path. I think in many ways he has done an incredibly good job. Our players still try hard. He has them out there trying to the best of their ability.”

Q: Is this season worse than 2002, when you finished 2-14 and made major changes? Does this season require as much change to fix?

A: “I don’t want to compare disappointments. This one is felt keenly. … I am pleased with the effort. I am pleased with our coaches’ effort.”

Q: You have had 20 players go on injured reserve this season. Is there a problem somewhere in the organization that you have so many season-ending injuries?

A: “Twenty-one. (Safety Marvin) White will go on injured reserve today. He tore his ACL yesterday (against the Ravens) and still played more than half of the game. … (The injuries), I wish I had an explanation for it. We have led the league in injured reserve players the past couple of years. It is a problem. We are looking for a solution.”

Q: Did Marvin Lewis make the sole decision on Chad Ocho Cinco in Pittsburgh when he disciplined him?

A: “(Lewis) sent Chad home without talking to me. When he did, I backed up his decision. (Discipline of players) has been all his and it is all his.”

Q: What has to happen to turn the team around?

A: “I think things would take a quantum leap forward if we had Carson Palmer back on the field and playing the way he can play.”

Q: Are you going to essentially fire yourself and hire a general manager?

A: “I call them themes. They (fans and customers) like to talk about different themes when things don’t go well. Part of being in this job, the good side of the coin is it shows the emotional connection the fans have with this football team.”

Sea Ray
12-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Why do they always treat this guy with kid gloves. We know he won't hire a GM. The question should be why won't you hire a Gm given your poor record.

Another question should be can you think of a franchise that has struggled more than this one since 1992?

Given this futility can you understand fans giving up and turning in their season tickets?

Do think any coaches or front office personnel should be held accountable for this team's record?

Redhook
12-01-2008, 06:09 PM
It's hard to put in words how much I hate that man. He's pure evil in my eyes.

WMR
12-01-2008, 06:28 PM
I hate Mike Brown. I really do.

UKFlounder
12-01-2008, 09:03 PM
"In many ways he's done an incredibly good job. Our players still try hard and that's hard to come by when you go through all the losing this team has gone through

This "interview" was so sad, I don't know where to start, but I thought this quote was worth highlighting. Isn't the "try hard" crap usually reserved for little league/Pop Warner teams? Or maybe the "old college try"?

"Incredibly good?" At 1-10-1? What would he think if the team had won, gasp, 3 of 12 games? Awesome?

Seriously - "incredibly good job?" Is there anything more asinine than that?

This whole discussion by Mike wants me to be speechless, and to not believe it, but I do, sadly, believe he means what he says.

It's just sheer patheticness wrapped in absurdity surrounded by ridiculousness.

Just putrid. Shameful. A disgrace.

Same old Bungles, now and forever.

Uggh.

UKFlounder
12-01-2008, 09:15 PM
I imagine he either declined to answer those questions or made it clear that there would be no interview if he was to be grilled. He generally only speaks publicly once per year, but to get him to pop his bald little head out of his shell for this was an accomplishment in and of itself.


Why do they always treat this guy with kid gloves. We know he won't hire a GM. The question should be why won't you hire a Gm given your poor record.

Another question should be can you think of a franchise that has struggled more than this one since 1992?

Given this futility can you understand fans giving up and turning in their season tickets?

Do think any coaches or front office personnel should be held accountable for this team's record?

WMR
12-01-2008, 09:27 PM
I remember being at games and seeing people ejected from the stadium for the anti-Mike Brown antics/demonstrations ... droves of people wearing paper bags to the games ...

maybe we'll get back to that next season.

KronoRed
12-01-2008, 09:38 PM
I'd seriously consider switching my allegiance if I were a fan of a mess like this, this guy doesn't care, he probably likes the losing better because it's status quo.

Lewis should quit and write a tell all ;)

WMR
12-01-2008, 09:44 PM
I'd seriously consider switching my allegiance if I were a fan of a mess like this, this guy doesn't care, he probably likes the losing better because it's status quo.

Lewis should quit and write a tell all ;)

LOL, I'm sure Chad and Drew Rosenhaus already have one ready and waiting for whenever Chad leaves Cincinnati/retires.

sonny
12-01-2008, 10:44 PM
Ugh, I'm just about done. I have resolved this year not to be emotionally attached to sports as much, but this season has really tested me in that department.

paintmered
12-01-2008, 10:54 PM
As long as the Bengals are sold out every week, there's no incentive for Mike Brown to change his ways.

The only way to get through to him is by cutting off his income supply. So instead of showing up to PBS wearing a paper bag over your head, you should go as a green empty seat.

MWM
12-02-2008, 01:06 AM
As long as the Bengals are sold out every week, there's no incentive for Mike Brown to change his ways.

The only way to get through to him is by cutting off his income supply. So instead of showing up to PBS wearing a paper bag over your head, you should go as a green empty seat.

I'd say as long as he or his family have no plans to sell the franchise, he has no incentive to improve. But even then, I think arguments could be made that he'd be much better off financially with a consistent winner.

The brand value of the Bengals isn't near what other similar revenue teams are. And that would show up in a valuation of the franchise. So while unrealized, I think his management of the team is hurting the value of the franchise.

Plus, if you look at some of the other similar markets, they've built up such equity that they're able to charge more for tickets, luxury boxes, etc... Green Bay has waiting lists that take decades to get through to get season tickets. I could walk up tomorrow and have no problem getting them for the Bengals. If they had a consistent winner, he could up the ticket prices and never lose attendance.

So any moron can make money in the NFL, but Mike Brown is pretty much minimizing the amount his franchise is making. Contrary to popular belief, Mike Brown is NOT a good business man. He's never accomplished anything in his life. Everything has been handed to him by virtue of the sperm and egg he was created from. He's a guy who woke up on third base and has no idea that he didn't hit a triple. Like Redhook, I have genuine contempt for Mike Brown. He's the only person in all of sports (with the exception of guys like Bret Meyers who hit their wife) that I have genuine contempt for. I have no respect for the man at all.

Redsfaithful
12-02-2008, 05:01 AM
Why do they always treat this guy with kid gloves. We know he won't hire a GM. The question should be why won't you hire a Gm given your poor record.

Yep, absolutely. Mark Curnutte is one of the worst sports journalists in Cincinnati, which is really saying something. I will cut him a break in that I'm sure being a Cincinnati Bengals beat writer isn't the greatest job on earth, but he's still terrible.

And Hobson is employed by the team, so it's not like you can expect much from him.

Reds Freak
12-02-2008, 08:36 AM
Q: Where have things gone wrong this season?

A: “It is hard to have success in this league without your key players. We’re playing with literally less than half of the people we thought would be our starters. … We lost Carson Palmer, who is our linchpin player. We lost our best defensive player before the season started, (linebacker) Odell Thurman.

"The linebacker corps we thought that we would be playing with was (Keith) Rivers, Thurman and (David) Pollack. They are all gone, two for good.

“When you have that kind of erosion on your football team, it is hard to be successful. We have not managed to overcome it.”




Is this guy serious? He really was counting on Odell Thurman and David Pollack this year? Those guys haven't played in three friggin years and he considers them the best defensive players on the team? It's almost got to the point where it's downright unethical what he's doing...

Matt700wlw
12-02-2008, 02:05 PM
I don't know the answer to this....I wonder if Mike gets to look at the questions before he conducts one of his rare interviews, and decide which ones he's willing to answer...and beat writers will go along with it because they have to have a working relationship with him as part of their job.

There's a reason he'd never come on a talk show, or agree to an interview with Paul Daugherty, or any other non-beat writer.

Sea Ray
12-02-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't know the answer to this....I wonder if Mike gets to look at the questions before he conducts one of his rare interviews, and decide which ones he's willing to answer...and beat writers will go along with it because they have to have a working relationship with him as part of their job.

There's a reason he'd never come on a talk show, or agree to an interview with Paul Daugherty, or any other non-beat writer.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember but awhile back, in the 90s, he came on WLW with Cris Collinsworth from 6-7pm. It was the biggest farce I've ever seen in local news. Cris starts off the hour talking about some memory he had joking around with MB on a team flight and the softball banter between the two of them went on for about 53 minutes. He then opened it up for calls and allowed maybe one or two very carefully screened calls from fans just to say he took calls. To this day I don't know why Cris did that for MB and it really knocked him down in my eyes as a broadcaster. Maybe your connections at WLW would know the inside story on that one. There's got to be a lot behind the scenes that went into that whole interview.

Reds Fanatic
12-02-2008, 04:49 PM
Today on the Bengals website some more detail about why Brown won't hire a GM.


Brown continues to indicate he has confidence in his personnel department to find players and that he has no plans to hire a general manager.

He cited a team analysis done before the 2008 draft that showed from 2003 the 43 players the Bengals had drafted had played a total of 1,104 NFL games and started 525, ranking the Bengals 11th and 12th, respectively in the league in those categories.

When Brown spoke about the personnel issue back in January, he said the Bengals were higher than that in percentage of players still with the team (fifth with 67.4), percentage of players still in the NFL (fifth at 81.4 percent) and percentage of players no longer in the NFL (fifth at 18.6).



So in his twisted logic because they keep more of their players with the team we don't need a GM. Who cares how many players stay with the team when they consistently lose. Maybe they keep more players because no one else would want most of this team. It is just amazing what this guy comes up with to keep from doing the basics to try to compete.

RichRed
12-02-2008, 05:02 PM
Today on the Bengals website some more detail about why Brown won't hire a GM.



So in his twisted logic because they keep more of their players with the team we don't need a GM. Who cares how many players stay with the team when they consistently lose. Maybe they keep more players because no one else would want most of this team. It is just amazing what this guy comes up with to keep from doing the basics to try to compete.

That is truly appalling. God bless you Bengals fans - I don't know how you do it.

Matt700wlw
12-02-2008, 05:18 PM
That is truly appalling. God bless you Bengals fans - I don't know how you do it.

A lot of alcohol.

camisadelgolf
12-02-2008, 06:18 PM
I think Mike Brown considered 'average' to be successful. In a league where the most important thing is a championship, Brown shoots to be not bad.

redsfanmia
12-02-2008, 07:52 PM
I think Mike Brown considered 'average' to be successful. In a league where the most important thing is a championship, Brown shoots to be not bad.

And profitable beyond belief.

MrCinatit
12-03-2008, 03:21 AM
I think Mike Brown considered 'average' to be successful. In a league where the most important thing is a championship, Brown shoots to be not bad.

That is what jumped out to me. We have a guy who does not want to be the best in his field...he sounds to be quite ecstatic to be in the middle of the pack.
And, that is to assume those players had the talent to play with other teams.

Redsfaithful
12-03-2008, 05:45 AM
That is what jumped out to me. We have a guy who does not want to be the best in his field...he sounds to be quite ecstatic to be in the middle of the pack.

He's always been that way too. This "competitive" nonsense goes way back into the early 90's. To my knowledge he's never said anything about wanting to win in the past two decades, it is always about being merely competitive. He has zero desire to consistently be in the playoffs.

It sounds like hyperbole, but Mike Brown's dream season really is 8-8. Good enough to keep people interested, not enough to make the playoffs. This is because NFL teams lose money when they make the playoffs:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4020/do_nfl_teams_profit_from_the_playoffs.html?cat=3


The NFL keeps all ticket revenue during the playoffs, but home teams can keep money made off other stadium related sales, merchandise, concessions etc. etc. The NFL pays division winning teams a flat fee of $580,000 and other teams $500,000 in the first round. In the second round, each team gets $580,000 and in the championship round $960,000. The Super Bowl winner receives $3.5 million and runner up $2.59 million. That is usually not enough to cover team expenses. John Jones, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the Green Bay Packers said, “Expenses usually exceed whatever you get from the league.” Other reasons for teams losing money in the playoffs include paying bonuses to staff and players for successful playoff runs, moving equipment to the games (obviously, home teams do not have to worry about this), and hosting VIPS and sponsors.

I'll bet that home playoff game in 2005 really irritated him.

remdog
12-03-2008, 07:02 AM
Thanks for that blurb on the way the NFL pays teams in the playoffs Redsfaithful. That's something that I didn't know. On the surface of it that would seem to pretty unusual and, since teams sometimes have to pay players and staff bonuses for making the playoffs I can see where someone like Mike Brown would be happy to say, "missed it by that much!" as Maxwell Smart used to say. :)

Rem

Yachtzee
12-03-2008, 02:08 PM
Thanks for that blurb on the way the NFL pays teams in the playoffs Redsfaithful. That's something that I didn't know. On the surface of it that would seem to pretty unusual and, since teams sometimes have to pay players and staff bonuses for making the playoffs I can see where someone like Mike Brown would be happy to say, "missed it by that much!" as Maxwell Smart used to say. :)

Rem

What I think MB fails to understand is that teams are more than just a group of guys who play football games at a particular location. Each team is a brand. Success on the field equates to more than just wins and losses and league bonuses. It's merchandise sales and higher ad revenues and global marketing. Teams like the Cowboys, Steelers, Packers, Redskins, et. al. understand that. Winning not only brings you a trophy. It brings worldwide recognition of your team. When the Bengals last made the Super Bowl, they had puff pieces in the news about people in Japan going crazy for Bengals merchandise (they thought the tiger stripes were cool). MB is stuck in the era when teams made their money sellling tickets to games and ads on the radio and got little else beyond the shared TV revenues. I can only hope that the next generation of Bengals owners is able to think beyond the confines of PBS and will do what it takes to put a playoff-caliber team on the field.

WMR
12-03-2008, 02:18 PM
What I think MB fails to understand is that teams are more than just a group of guys who play football games at a particular location. Each team is a brand. Success on the field equates to more than just wins and losses and league bonuses. It's merchandise sales and higher ad revenues and global marketing. Teams like the Cowboys, Steelers, Packers, Redskins, et. al. understand that. Winning not only brings you a trophy. It brings worldwide recognition of your team. When the Bengals last made the Super Bowl, they had puff pieces in the news about people in Japan going crazy for Bengals merchandise (they thought the tiger stripes were cool). MB is stuck in the era when teams made their money sellling tickets to games and ads on the radio and got little else beyond the shared TV revenues. I can only hope that the next generation of Bengals owners is able to think beyond the confines of PBS and will do what it takes to put a playoff-caliber team on the field.


He WILL die, someday ... ... RIGHT?

We're sure that he's human, right?

I wonder if his daughter has been fully indoctrinated into his cult of stupidity? That's the real question.

MrCinatit
12-03-2008, 04:27 PM
I am still in denial that the greatest mind in the history of professional football (and perhaps sports) was somehow responsible for giving birth to Mike Brown.

remdog
12-03-2008, 04:36 PM
I am still in denial that the greatest mind in the history of professional football (and perhaps sports) was somehow responsible for giving birth to Mike Brown.

I totally agree. Track down their milkman from that time!!:D

Rem

Hoosier Red
12-05-2008, 11:00 AM
He WILL die, someday ... ... RIGHT?

We're sure that he's human, right?

I wonder if his daughter has been fully indoctrinated into his cult of stupidity? That's the real question.

She had given some hope to be smarter than her dad a few years ago. She brought in Lewis over Coughlin, who would have been an absolute disaster, she seemed to know what she knew and what she didn't.

Now, there is no hope, only pain.

SunDeck
12-05-2008, 11:11 AM
Is this guy serious? He really was counting on Odell Thurman and David Pollack this year? Those guys haven't played in three friggin years and he considers them the best defensive players on the team? It's almost got to the point where it's downright unethical what he's doing...

Unless he meant losing them had a cascading effect on the entire defense, which they could not hope to rectify. Given their incompetence, that would be an accurate statement.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-05-2008, 07:31 PM
As I said before....

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72065

forfreelin04
12-05-2008, 10:06 PM
I got to thinking the other day while talking to a fellow Ohioan who is a Browns fan. (We both reside in SC) I am a Bengals fan being born in the Southwest part of the State. We wondered if Browns and Bengals fans could actually come together and push for a merger of both Cleveland and Cincinnati and put the NFL team in Columbus. Obviously, CBUS has the big draw of OSU, but it has had some marginal success with the Blue Jackets and the Crew.

What do you Redszoners think? Would you give up your beloved franschises for a possible winner in Columbus? A farther drive for each area to watch a game, but you could not simply dissolve one for the other.

I for one would because I don't care about the stripes or the history, I want to take some pride in knowing my team is a contender year in and year out. I see neither team making the leap to a NFL powerhouse anytime soon. As long as Mike Brown and his daughter control the team in Cincy and the Browns stay cursed, I for one would forgo the embarssment that is PRO FOOTBALL in Ohio for a new franchise in C BUS.

On a side note, I wonder what it's like to be from Pittsburgh? Hard to breathe in that town, but gosh what a team!

remdog
12-05-2008, 11:48 PM
The Browns deserved to be cursed.

The Bengals deserve a new owner.

Rem

Yachtzee
12-06-2008, 01:12 AM
I got to thinking the other day while talking to a fellow Ohioan who is a Browns fan. (We both reside in SC) I am a Bengals fan being born in the Southwest part of the State. We wondered if Browns and Bengals fans could actually come together and push for a merger of both Cleveland and Cincinnati and put the NFL team in Columbus. Obviously, CBUS has the big draw of OSU, but it has had some marginal success with the Blue Jackets and the Crew.

What do you Redszoners think? Would you give up your beloved franschises for a possible winner in Columbus? A farther drive for each area to watch a game, but you could not simply dissolve one for the other.

I for one would because I don't care about the stripes or the history, I want to take some pride in knowing my team is a contender year in and year out. I see neither team making the leap to a NFL powerhouse anytime soon. As long as Mike Brown and his daughter control the team in Cincy and the Browns stay cursed, I for one would forgo the embarssment that is PRO FOOTBALL in Ohio for a new franchise in C BUS.

On a side note, I wonder what it's like to be from Pittsburgh? Hard to breathe in that town, but gosh what a team!

Columbus already has a team far more popular than any NFL team would be in that town. The Buckeyes own Columbus, so any NFL team there would have to contend with that. If you were to dissolve one team, the remaining team would have to be the Cleveland Browns or else Browns fans will raise all hell to get another team. They've done it before and they'll do it again. Of course, if the US automakers go under, it will be a ghost town up here, so maybe the resulting team would be better served staying in Southern Ohio with its ties to the foreign automakers.

camisadelgolf
12-06-2008, 08:10 AM
What do you Redszoners think? Would you give up your beloved franschises for a possible winner in Columbus? A farther drive for each area to watch a game, but you could not simply dissolve one for the other.

I wouldn't do it, no matter how badly the Bengals play. I could envision a scenario in which I boycott the Bengals completely, but I'd never switch my devotion to another team. At least the Bearcats are good this year.