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View Full Version : Vazquez to Atlanta



fadetoblack2880
12-02-2008, 09:36 PM
According to MLB Alerts, the Braves have acquired Javy Vazquez and an undisclosed player for three players from the White Sox.

Hondo
12-03-2008, 12:20 AM
Looks like one team bowed out of the PEAVY Bidding...

GO REDS... Get Peavy!

Steviejoe
12-03-2008, 01:07 AM
Better pitcher in atlanta,wait and see.

fadetoblack2880
12-03-2008, 01:35 AM
braves need more than one starter.

Newman4
12-03-2008, 08:51 AM
Looks like one team bowed out of the PEAVY Bidding...

GO REDS... Get Peavy!

That would make my Christmas. Peavy is in his prime years at a relatively low contract for a guy his caliber. The Cubs are trying to low ball the Padres, it would be a great time to step in and snatch Peavy. I would redo his deal if he came here as well. Money talks.

Here's his current deal:

Jake Peavy rhp
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
3 years/$52M (2010-2012), plus 2013 club option

3 years/$52M (2010-12), plus 2013 club option

signed extension 12/12/07
10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13:$22M club option ($4M buyout)
full no-trade clause for 2010, may block trades to 14 clubs in 2011 and 8 clubs in 2012 (also earns 10-and-5 rights in 2012)
award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove
4 years/$14.5M (2005-08), plus 2009 club option
05:$0.75M, 06:$2.5M, 07:$4.75M, 08:$6M, 09:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout)
signed extension 2/05 (avoided arbitration)
full no-trade clause 2008-09

2008 salary increases to $6.5M with 600 IP 2005-07
2009 salary increases to $9M with 600 IP in 2006-08, with 200 IP in 2008
2009 salary increases by $0.5M with each top 3 finish in Cy Young vote in 2006-08, with top salary of $11M

2009 salary increases to $11M with Cy Young during 2005-07
$0.5M assignment bonus if traded

award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP or Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd, $25,000 for 3rd); $50,000 for All Star starter; $25,000 for All Star selection; $50,000 each for LCS MVP, Gold Glove or Rolaids award ($25,000 for 2nd in Rolaids rankings)

1 year/$0.35M (2004), 3 /04
1 year/$0.305M (2003) 3/03
drafted 1999 (15-472)
agent: Barry Axelrod
ML service: 5.101

Guarantee the option, but level out the money better - change the deal to 5 years 90 million:

09 14 Million
10 16 Mil
11 18 Mil
12 20 Mil
13 22 Mil

redsfandan
12-03-2008, 09:33 AM
That would make my Christmas. Peavy is in his prime years at a relatively low contract for a guy his caliber. The Cubs are trying to low ball the Padres, it would be a great time to step in and snatch Peavy. I would redo his deal if he came here as well. Money talks.

Here's his current deal:
.....
Guarantee the option, but level out the money better - change the deal to 5 years 90 million:
09 14 Million
10 16 Mil
11 18 Mil
12 20 Mil
13 22 Mil

hmmm now why don't i think that'll happen? oh yeah cuz we root for the cincinnati reds, NOT the new york yankees. do you really think that is possible? or would you just like to have one player take up 20% or more of the payroll? the only possible aces the reds will acquire will be pitchers they draft (cueto/bailey) or pitchers they trade for that haven't reached their potential yet (harang/volquez). they just aren't a team that has a payroll big enough to afford to commit THAT much to any player without it hurting their payroll flexibility and ability to add other good players that could help them win.

GoGoWhiteSox
12-03-2008, 09:03 PM
Better pitcher in atlanta,wait and see.
Yup. Because the Braves won't be playing in any pressure packed games come August. Javy thrives in those types of situations.

Emin3mShady07
12-03-2008, 10:15 PM
Yup. Because the Braves won't be playing in any pressure packed games come August. Javy thrives in those types of situations.

I didn't know that games in April were less important games in August and September. They're all equal and that's a big reason why I think knocking Vazquez's "clutchness" is stupid and untrue, that and the fact that he is always consistently overworked and the Pitcher Abuse Points from Baseball Prospectus seem to support that theory. Consider this...A team goes 28 -0 to start the season and ends up 90-72 missing the playoffs by 1 game and posting a record of 7-18 in september. Another team goes 7-18 in april and 28 - 0 in september and finishes 90-72 also 1 game out of first place. The first team I listed would be labelled as unclutch and riddiculed for their awful performance and the second team would be lauded for their great ability to comeback but to me there is not really any difference to me between the two teams. Wins are wins are wins, it doesn't matter what time of the year they come from. I mean a team could start 100 - 0 and go 0-62 and still probably make the playoffs even though they were "unclutch".

Atlas Jobinson
12-03-2008, 10:29 PM
I didn't know that games in April were less important games in August and September. They're all equal and that's a big reason why I think knocking Vazquez's "clutchness" is stupid and untrue, that and the fact that he is always consistently overworked and the Pitcher Abuse Points from Baseball Prospectus seem to support that theory. Consider this...A team goes 28 -0 to start the season and ends up 90-72 missing the playoffs by 1 game and posting a record of 7-18 in september. Another team goes 7-18 in april and 28 - 0 in september and finishes 90-72 also 1 game out of first place. The first team I listed would be labelled as unclutch and riddiculed for their awful performance and the second team would be lauded for their great ability to comeback but to me there is not really any difference to me between the two teams. Wins are wins are wins, it doesn't matter what time of the year they come from. I mean a team could start 100 - 0 and go 0-62 and still probably make the playoffs even though they were "unclutch".

How right you are. The whole idea of "clutch" is a farce.

GoGoWhiteSox
12-06-2008, 05:14 PM
I didn't know that games in April were less important games in August and September. They're all equal and that's a big reason why I think knocking Vazquez's "clutchness" is stupid and untrue, that and the fact that he is always consistently overworked and the Pitcher Abuse Points from Baseball Prospectus seem to support that theory. Consider this...A team goes 28 -0 to start the season and ends up 90-72 missing the playoffs by 1 game and posting a record of 7-18 in september. Another team goes 7-18 in april and 28 - 0 in september and finishes 90-72 also 1 game out of first place. The first team I listed would be labelled as unclutch and riddiculed for their awful performance and the second team would be lauded for their great ability to comeback but to me there is not really any difference to me between the two teams. Wins are wins are wins, it doesn't matter what time of the year they come from. I mean a team could start 100 - 0 and go 0-62 and still probably make the playoffs even though they were "unclutch".

Nothing you say will get me to change my mind on Javy. We'll just agree to disagree.

TheNext44
12-06-2008, 10:03 PM
I agree that clutch is overrated. Every win is worth exactly the same. The 1990 Reds got off to a great start, and that great start let them coast the rest of the way. The 1976 Reds had a great July which help them coast to a championship. It just doesn't matter when you win, just that you do.

That said, there is such a thing being able to handle pressure well. It doesn't effect most players, but some do well under it and some do not. Some start off collapsing under pressure, and then learn to deal with it, but it is there and it does have an effect.

I think that we call all agree that there is such a thing as Leverage, and in and high leverage situations, some pitchers and hitters are better than others. Mostly it is just those really good pitchers and hitters, who are good in every situation, but there are some pitchers and hitters who thrive off of the pressure, who seem like they need to be in a high leverage situation to excell.

You would be denying that there is such a thing as human nature to say that everyone acts the same in every situation. It exists in other areas of life, we all know some people who work great in a crisis and some who can't handle the pressure. I think it is foolish to think that this is any different on the baseball diamond.

I forget who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is that a true hero is someone who is at their best when things are at their worst. I think this is true for some baseball players too.

Emin3mShady07
12-07-2008, 02:32 AM
Nothing you say will get me to change my mind on Javy. We'll just agree to disagree.

That's fine, I know I'm in the minority with Javvy, but I really did love the guy and his peripherals and xFIP were all very good, but he never seemed to max out his potential on teams with winning records, but I believe that this is mostly just a coincidence rather than Javvy being unclutch. So its all good, we appear to be supporting the 2 teams I care about the most and thats whats truly important:)


I agree that clutch is overrated. Every win is worth exactly the same. The 1990 Reds got off to a great start, and that great start let them coast the rest of the way. The 1976 Reds had a great July which help them coast to a championship. It just doesn't matter when you win, just that you do.

That said, there is such a thing being able to handle pressure well. It doesn't effect most players, but some do well under it and some do not. Some start off collapsing under pressure, and then learn to deal with it, but it is there and it does have an effect.
I think that we call all agree that there is such a thing as Leverage, and in and high leverage situations, some pitchers and hitters are better than others. Mostly it is just those really good pitchers and hitters, who are good in every situation, but there are some pitchers and hitters who thrive off of the pressure, who seem like they need to be in a high leverage situation to excell.

You would be denying that there is such a thing as human nature to say that everyone acts the same in every situation. It exists in other areas of life, we all know some people who work great in a crisis and some who can't handle the pressure. I think it is foolish to think that this is any different on the baseball diamond.

I forget who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is that a true hero is someone who is at their best when things are at their worst. I think this is true for some baseball players too.

This is very true, I think Javvy did handle pressure a little bit worse than other players as it was apparent to me that he did not enjoy the spotlight and tried to stay out of the media, but Ozzie guillen made that impossible, however, I do not think the amount of the effect is as large as people make it out to be.

redsfandan
12-07-2008, 06:58 AM
yes a win is a win but momentum is important too and a pitcher can help a teams momentum. pitchers are often called "clutch" cuz when the team needs them to pitch a good game they do and some pitchers are better at not only pitching well under pressure in the playoffs and when the playoff races heat up but also when a team needs a win to end a losing streak. with a pitcher like that you typically don't have as many long losing streaks that can cost a team the momentum they need to make the playoffs.

as far as vazquez, he has always had the arm but the mental part has been another story. if he has more help, is used better, and has less pressure in atlanta some cy young votes a year from now wouldn't be a surprise to me at all.