PDA

View Full Version : Who will be in Louisville's Starting Rotation?



icehole3
12-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Please state what order you'd have them in as well.

1. Bailey
2. Ramirez
3. Thompson
4. Maloney
5. LeCure

I think Bailey will have a lights out ST, but Owings will beat him at the finish line.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Props/hathair.gif

Benihana
12-03-2008, 08:14 PM
Please state what order you'd have them in as well.

1. Bailey
2. Ramirez
3. Thompson
4. Maloney
5. LeCure

I think Bailey will have a lights out ST, but Owings will beat him at the finish line.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Props/hathair.gif

That is quite a rotation for AAA.

Joseph
12-03-2008, 08:28 PM
I think at least one of those will be traded before the season begins.

OnBaseMachine
12-03-2008, 08:56 PM
I think Ramon Ramirez will make the Reds roster either as the fifth starter or as a reliever.

redsof72
12-03-2008, 09:16 PM
One thing the Reds really did under Krivsky (and O'Brien) was develop enough prospects that their Triple-A and Double-A teams were not filled with six year free agents, as they had been for years under Bowden. You could have entire rosters this year filled with real prospects with maybe just a couple of Kevin Barker types to fill in holes if needed.

I remember the Chattanooga teams of the late 90's and up until about 2004--they were filled with 28-30 year old guys. They had no choice, their prospects could not get out of A-ball. The farm system now reminds me of the days when I used to go see the Indianapolis Indians play in the late 70's and early 80's. Not sure if anyone here remembers those prospect-filled teams. Many of them did not pan out, but they had Triple-A teams filled with guys mostly 23 years old and under, guys like Nick Esasky, Paul Householder, Tom Foley, Eddie Milner, Jay Howell, Bill Dawley, Gary Redus, Duane Walker, Dave Van Gorder, Skeeter Barnes. Almost all those guys came up short in the end, but it was fun to watch a team full of prospects. Before those guys, it was Ronnie Oester, Mario Soto, Dave Revering, Tom Hume, Paul Moskau, Mike LaCoss, Charlie Liebrandt, Frank Pastore, Geoff Combe, and the list could go on and on. That's 19 guys within about 3-4 years that all had big league careers, some brief, and I am leaving some out. And they were almost all young guys in Triple-A at the same time. It was great to go to games at old Bush Stadium on 16th Street in Indy.

Edit: I left out Joe Price, who had a pretty decent big league career. And Bruce Berenyi. If you are a Reds fan of at least 40, you remember those names, some painfully, but man, that's a lot of players in such a short time, all home grown.

Mario-Rijo
12-04-2008, 03:37 AM
I think Ramon Ramirez will make the Reds roster either as the fifth starter or as a reliever.

I agree.

I see the starting AAA rotation as this if none of them are dealt.

Bailey
Maloney
Thompson
Lecure
Jukich

HeatherC1212
12-04-2008, 09:37 AM
I think Ramon Ramirez will make the Reds roster either as the fifth starter or as a reliever.

I agree. I saw him pitch twice in person last year and he did a really nice job both times even though I could tell he was fighting through some things during the second game. I think he was having trouble locating some of his pitches but he still got through a quality start pretty well in that game. I think he makes the club somehow out of spring training, probably in the bullpen. :thumbup:

George Anderson
12-04-2008, 09:58 AM
If you are a Reds fan of at least 40, you remember those names, some painfully, but man, that's a lot of players in such a short time, all home grown.

Man do those names ring a bell. Don't forget about Don Werner,Steve Christmas, Mike Grace. Arthuro Defreites, Harry Spillman and Sheldon Burnside.
That was an era where there were alot of young potential superstars but few really did anything.

Victory Field is awesome but I do miss Bush Stadium, alotta good memories there.

redsof72
12-04-2008, 10:51 AM
Thanks, George Anderson. I left out Brad "the animal" Lesley, Tom Lawless and Bill Scherrer. Also, there was Doug Corbett, who the Reds left off the 40-man and he got taken by Minnesota in what is now called the Rule V Draft, and went there and did well. It was absolutely amazing how many prospects they had come through there from '78-82. We are talking about probably 30 players who went on to big league careers, and all were signed by the Reds and came up through the system.

They had an unbelievable scouting system before Marge came in with the famous quote, "why do you need scouts? All they do is watch baseball."

They are finally getting back to scouting and player development. It only took 20 years to figure out that this was the way to go.

lollipopcurve
12-04-2008, 11:05 AM
It was great to go to games at old Bush Stadium on 16th Street in Indy.

Edit: I left out Joe Price, who had a pretty decent big league career. And Bruce Berenyi. If you are a Reds fan of at least 40, you remember those names, some painfully, but man, that's a lot of players in such a short time, all home grown.

I only saw one game at Bush Stadium, but I loved the place. Wish I could have seen more. Wasn't Skeeter Barnes something of a legend there?

I think we're the in the middle of a renaissance as far as the minor league system goes. The question is, how much will the major league club look to promote from the system, and how much will they look to trade from it?

redsof72
12-04-2008, 11:30 AM
Barnes was a legend and he also played there after they switched their affiliation to Montreal. You may also remember Razor Shines, who was a bigger legend after the Reds moved out because of the dispute over use of the designated hitter.

Jockety was big on trading prospects with the Cards. We'll see.

The farm system was a complete disgrace under Bowden. I remember a few years back going to a four game series in Chattanooga and running into a scout for Scott Boras. I had known this fellow for a while, and he told me Boras had sent him in to see the Reds big four pitching prospects of Basham, Hall, Mottl, and Moseley. All four were ranked among the Reds best prospects and each guy started a game in that series. It was not pretty. I passed the guy leaving the ballpark and he just shook his head and said, if those guys are the best that organization has, then that organization is in a lot of trouble. And that was actually a big improvement from a couple of years earlier when they were trying to develop prospects like Eddie Priest, Justin Atchley, and Scott MacRae.

lollipopcurve
12-04-2008, 11:36 AM
You may also remember Razor Shines, who was a bigger legend after the Reds moved out because of the dispute over use of the designated hitter.

That's who I was thinking of -- thanks. I believe he was managing the night I was there.


the Reds big four pitching prospects of Basham, Hall, Mottl, and Moseley.

Ah yes. Those were the dark days. I seem to remember a "big 3" down in Charleston one year, headed by Tim Pugh. Can't recall the other two at the moment...

redsof72
12-04-2008, 11:48 AM
You could look this up. In 1997, the Reds were so short of pitching that right after the draft, they signed this kid out of Rose-Huhlman Institute in Indiana named Eric Tryon as a non-drafted free agent and immediately put him in the starting rotation AT THE DOUBLE-A LEVEL with Chattanooga. I mean, the kid was a non-drafted free agent from THAT YEAR and he started his career in Double-A. He made about six starts there and they sent him to low-A. That's how bad the farm system was under Bowden.

lollipopcurve
12-04-2008, 11:58 AM
You could look this up. In 1997, the Reds were so short of pitching that right after the draft, they signed this kid out of Rose-Huhlman Institute in Indiana named Eric Tryon as a non-drafted free agent and immediately put him in the starting rotation AT THE DOUBLE-A LEVEL with Chattanooga. I mean, the kid was a non-drafted free agent from THAT YEAR and he started his career in Double-A. He made about six starts there and they sent him to low-A. That's how bad the farm system was under Bowden.

Two years from 1999, when the major league team made noise. But a long decline was near.

camisadelgolf
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
This is really difficult. I'll go ahead and take a stab at it, though.

1. Homer Bailey (I think he'll have a breakthrough)
2. Daryl Thompson (more of the same success--a #3 ML starter down the line, imo)
3. Matt Maloney (back of the rotation starter in MLB but top notch starter in AAA)
4. Sam LeCure (will have ups and downs but will deserve he's worthy of the 40-man roster spot)
5. Adam Pettyjohn (the veteran you can DFA without worrying too much about losing)

CL Josh Roenicke (I think he still has some things to work on)
SU Carlos Fisher (will be with the Reds before the end of the season)
RP Robert Manuel (lots of production, but I could see him having an off year)
RP Jon Adkins (another vet who could be put on and taken off the 40-man roster without too many worries)
LHRP Ben Jukich (I think he's a LOOGY)
LHRP Danny Herrera (a junk-baller; hard to predict, though)

I'd take one of these three guys for mop-up duties:
Justin James (2008 was a disaster, but I think the Reds really like something about him; if he doesn't improve, though, he's gone)
James Avery (he needs to finally be moved to the bullpen; I'd consider releasing him before even giving him that chance, though)
Justin Mallett (good for throwing emergency innings)

What this means:
Micah Owings is the fifth starter.
Ramon Ramirez is in the Reds' bullpen.
A free agent pitcher is added to the bullpen.

camisadelgolf
12-04-2008, 12:56 PM
You could look this up. In 1997, the Reds were so short of pitching that right after the draft, they signed this kid out of Rose-Huhlman Institute in Indiana named Eric Tryon as a non-drafted free agent and immediately put him in the starting rotation AT THE DOUBLE-A LEVEL with Chattanooga. I mean, the kid was a non-drafted free agent from THAT YEAR and he started his career in Double-A. He made about six starts there and they sent him to low-A. That's how bad the farm system was under Bowden.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=29321
http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~rickert/BB/tryon.html

SMcGavin
12-04-2008, 02:00 PM
It was great to go to games at old Bush Stadium on 16th Street in Indy.


Nice post. I remember watching games at Bush Stadium when I was a kid. I'm too young for many of the names you mentioned, but of course I remember Razor Shines (maybe from his managing days?). The stadium is still there on 16th street, obviously it's not in great shape anymore. Covered in ivy.

It's a shame the Reds lost Indianapolis as an affiliate. Indy is significantly closer to Cincinnati than Chicago - it's a city of roughly a million people and the Reds should own it. Sadly, I'm greatly outnumbered by Cubs fans. I can't count the number of times I've been asked "why are you a Reds fan, are you from Cincinnati?" while wearing my Reds hat. Asked that by other Indy natives who don't even think about the Reds being the closest team.

SMcGavin
12-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Covered in ivy.

Wikipedia tells me the walls were always covered in ivy even when the stadium was open... obviously my childhood memories aren't as full as I'd like. :)

Steviejoe
12-04-2008, 02:31 PM
If these players are in aaa i would say the order of Ramirez,Bailey,Maloney,Thompson,Lecure.But i think Ramirez will be in cincy on opening day as a fifth starter or bullpen.I really belive Bailey will be traded by opening day.I think the one to watch is Lecure,he maybe a surprise.

roborobj
12-05-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm kind of new to this board. What's a LOOGY?

dougdirt
12-05-2008, 01:38 PM
I'm kind of new to this board. What's a LOOGY?

Lefty One Out GuY. Basically a guy you bring in who is left handed just to face that one tough lefty in the other teams lineup who struggled to hit lefties.

Ron Madden
12-06-2008, 05:05 AM
Bailey and Thompson seem to be the favorites here and I can see why, they have a lot of upside and both stand a chance for fine Major League careers.
Call me crazy but I believe Sam LeCure and Matt Maloney have just as good of a chance in the Major Leagues as Bailey or Thompson.

Right now I'd bet that all four will end up with more innings pitched out of the bullpen than games started and there is nothing wrong with that.

camisadelgolf
12-06-2008, 09:04 AM
This is really difficult. I'll go ahead and take a stab at it, though.

1. Homer Bailey (I think he'll have a breakthrough)
2. Daryl Thompson (more of the same success--a #3 ML starter down the line, imo)
3. Matt Maloney (back of the rotation starter in MLB but top notch starter in AAA)
4. Sam LeCure (will have ups and downs but will deserve he's worthy of the 40-man roster spot)
5. Adam Pettyjohn (the veteran you can DFA without worrying too much about losing)

CL Josh Roenicke (I think he still has some things to work on)
SU Carlos Fisher (will be with the Reds before the end of the season)
RP Robert Manuel (lots of production, but I could see him having an off year)
RP Jon Adkins (another vet who could be put on and taken off the 40-man roster without too many worries)
LHRP Ben Jukich (I think he's a LOOGY)
LHRP Danny Herrera (a junk-baller; hard to predict, though)

I'd take one of these three guys for mop-up duties:
Justin James (2008 was a disaster, but I think the Reds really like something about him; if he doesn't improve, though, he's gone)
James Avery (he needs to finally be moved to the bullpen; I'd consider releasing him before even giving him that chance, though)
Justin Mallett (good for throwing emergency innings)

What this means:
Micah Owings is the fifth starter.
Ramon Ramirez is in the Reds' bullpen.
A free agent pitcher is added to the bullpen.

Because of a couple transactions, I thought I would update this a little.

The 'free agent pitcher added to the bullpen' turned out to be Mike Lincoln. I'm not a fan of the signing personally (I don't know if I trust Lincoln's elbow to stay healthy), but I figured the Reds would sign someone of similar caliber. Anyway, the Reds also inked Ron Flores to a minor league deal, who would fill in that last bullpen spot that I had reserved for either Justin Mallett, James Avery, or Justin James. That's a surplus of three players, but I could see Avery somehow returning to AA. I could also see Louisville carrying 13 pitchers, which means that both Mallett and James would stay if one of the 13 pitchers were injured.

mth123
12-06-2008, 09:12 AM
1. Bailey
2. Pettyjohn
3. Jukich
4. Lecure
5. Minor League FA

Thompson, Maloney and Ramirez are either on the Reds or included in deals to fill holes. If the Reds get the right player, its possible that Bailey is dealt and one of the others takes his spot in AAA.

corkedbat
12-06-2008, 12:59 PM
1. Bailey
2. Pettyjohn
3. Jukich
4. Lecure
5. Minor League FA

Thompson, Maloney and Ramirez are either on the Reds or included in deals to fill holes. If the Reds get the right player, its possible that Bailey is dealt and one of the others takes his spot in AAA.

I've got a feeling that Bailey will be dealt and Ramirez will be on the Reds roster as either the 5th starter or long man.

1. Maloney
2. Thompson
3. Pettyjohn
4. Lecure
5. Jukich

TheNext44
12-06-2008, 10:25 PM
One thing the Reds really did under Krivsky (and O'Brien) was develop enough prospects that their Triple-A and Double-A teams were not filled with six year free agents, as they had been for years under Bowden. You could have entire rosters this year filled with real prospects with maybe just a couple of Kevin Barker types to fill in holes if needed.

I remember the Chattanooga teams of the late 90's and up until about 2004--they were filled with 28-30 year old guys. They had no choice, their prospects could not get out of A-ball. The farm system now reminds me of the days when I used to go see the Indianapolis Indians play in the late 70's and early 80's. Not sure if anyone here remembers those prospect-filled teams. Many of them did not pan out, but they had Triple-A teams filled with guys mostly 23 years old and under, guys like Nick Esasky, Paul Householder, Tom Foley, Eddie Milner, Jay Howell, Bill Dawley, Gary Redus, Duane Walker, Dave Van Gorder, Skeeter Barnes. Almost all those guys came up short in the end, but it was fun to watch a team full of prospects. Before those guys, it was Ronnie Oester, Mario Soto, Dave Revering, Tom Hume, Paul Moskau, Mike LaCoss, Charlie Liebrandt, Frank Pastore, Geoff Combe, and the list could go on and on. That's 19 guys within about 3-4 years that all had big league careers, some brief, and I am leaving some out. And they were almost all young guys in Triple-A at the same time. It was great to go to games at old Bush Stadium on 16th Street in Indy.

Edit: I left out Joe Price, who had a pretty decent big league career. And Bruce Berenyi. If you are a Reds fan of at least 40, you remember those names, some painfully, but man, that's a lot of players in such a short time, all home grown.

I bought the Indianapolis Indians team set of baseball cards in I think 1978 or 79. It had a lot of the players you mentioned, and I remember in the 80's looking back at it, and nearly eveyone made the majors, something like 16 out of 20. The big ones were Soto and and Oester that I ruined by constantly taking them out of the pack and handling them because they were so cool.

BTW, Joe Price was my favorite player in the horrible "Wagner" years. He was about the only decent player they had then.