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View Full Version : EE to Giants?/Bailey traded?



redhawk61
12-05-2008, 02:14 PM
From Fay:

Rumors and random thoughts as I wonder whether you get cell phone reception at the craps tables in the Bellagio:

--Walt Jocketty sounded pretty confident that the Reds will get something done at the Winter Meetings, which start Monday at the aforementioned Bellagio in Las Vegas. "We've had a lot of discussions with clubs," he said. "Hopefully, we'll be able to follow up and get something done." They better I put together a depth chart for the Sunday paper and the outfield is about as thin Manute Bol.

--Heard from a reliable source today that the Giants are interested in the Edwin Encarnacion. I think Encarnacion is the most likely Red to be traded for two reasons: He's got high-value and the Reds are deep in the minors at third base.

--Heard from an unreliable source (random e-mail) that Homer Bailey had been traded. The reason the e-mailer said Bailey had been trades is he had packed up and left Houston. Why Bailey would go anywhere upon being traded i don't know. But I'd put Bailey right behind Encarnacion on the most-likely-to-be-traded list.

--If Encarnacion remains a Reds he almost certainly will remain at third base. Joey Votto will remain at first. "The only way we would move them is if we traded for a third baseman or first baseman," Jocketty said. "We're not going to move just to move them."

--Jocketty got a chuckle at the Votto-to-Washington Nationals talk. Is that Votto going to get traded? "No." I don't see Jimmy B. as being a Reds trading partner as long as Jocketty's in charge. The two have not made a trade since the Jeff Brantley-for-Dmitri Young deal in 1997. "That one didn't work out too good."

--Nice gesture by the Reds to not raise ticket prices. I'd go a step further and cut the price a buck or so on the cheapest seats. That would be a nice thing to announce at Redsfest.

--T.R. Sullivan, the MLB.com guy in Texas, is reporting that the Reds are a possible trade partner for catcher Gerald Laird. He hit .276/.329/.398 last year. Fielding percentage doesn't tell you everything about a catcher's defense, but Laird's (.986) was the second lowest of any catcher in AL who caught more than 50 games.

redhawk61
12-05-2008, 02:19 PM
delete

smoke6
12-05-2008, 02:19 PM
Homer just packed up and split on his responsibilites? No......never!:D

SPAPPU
12-05-2008, 02:28 PM
They've given both these guys every opportunity to play at the big league level. Yes, Bailey is young. But compare his mental makeup vs. Cueto and Volquez. And I love EE, but I can't bare to watch another game where he throws the ball into the dugout. If they somehow can do the following: trade for Beltrae to play third AND get Dye to play left, putting Bruce in Center, then I think you have a team that can compete in the NL Central.

flash
12-05-2008, 02:33 PM
If the Reds can get Alonzo and Sanchez for those two I take the deal.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 02:38 PM
um, Who would we be getting back for Edwin? Matt Cain? Idk who on that team that Walt would want? Zito and the Giants pay his Salary lol

Orodle
12-05-2008, 02:42 PM
um, Who would we be getting back for Edwin? Matt Cain? Idk who on that team that Walt would want? Zito and the Giants pay his Salary lol

I would be down with Cain :)

redhawk61
12-05-2008, 02:43 PM
um, Who would we be getting back for Edwin? Matt Cain? Idk who on that team that Walt would want? Zito and the Giants pay his Salary lol

OBM in the ORG brought up a good idea of Sanchez and Burriss for EE+ a lesser.

fadetoblack2880
12-05-2008, 02:49 PM
Maybe Molina. Tigers are supposedly going after Laird more aggresively. I just can't see both those guys going for Molina though. Besides, nobody ever said the Giants had interest in Bailey. He may be on his way to the White Sox for all we know.

Ghosts of 1990
12-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Good stuff from fay. Don't wanna see Bailey go anywhere.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 02:58 PM
If this team needs a back up for Hanigan or a Platoon for Hanigan... I vote for Ivan Rodriguez on a 2-3 Million dollar deal... He still is awesome behind the plate and He is a Champion... And wouldn't cost a draft pick... or a prospect.

Bip Roberts
12-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Rodriguez is pretty bad actually and cant really hit any more.

TheBigLebowski
12-05-2008, 03:36 PM
I highly doubt we've traded EE to SFO. I don't think he would fetch Cain and there's really no one else on that roster I'd want...well, Fred Lewis, maybe.

schmidty622
12-05-2008, 03:39 PM
I think I'd like a bit more than just Sanchez. His 5.00 career ERA isn't impressive, but he does K batters at a high rate.

Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Sanchez

Would certainly be the best rotation we would have had in years.

Nasty_Boy
12-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Sanchez is an impressive young lefty... He can be unhittable at times, he's cheap, and I only see him getting better. I think Cain would be a tough sell for the Giants because they see themselves on the brink of contending. Cain is young cheap and just plain filthy! If you had to package EE, Bailey, Stubbs/Vailaka, and or Maloney/Roenicke to get Cain and either Sandoval or Burriss, the Reds should do what they could to make that work.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 04:06 PM
I think I'd like a bit more than just Sanchez. His 5.00 career ERA isn't impressive, but he does K batters at a high rate.

Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Sanchez

Would certainly be the best rotation we would have had in years.

How about Peavy for Freel, Edwin, Bailey, Maloney, and Stubbs

Peavy
Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto

Bad Boys Bad Boys, Whatcha Gonna Do!

laxtonto
12-05-2008, 04:15 PM
Anyone want to think about a Laird, Marcus Lemon and Arias deal for Bailey and Daryl Thompson?

Starting C, Starting SS or Utility and a potential 2B/SS for Bailey(who really just needs a change of scenery) and Thompson (who I like but still have concerns over).


Lets not forget that Texas can go elsewhere. Detroit is a serious suitor as well.

Would you trade Laird for Thompson?
Would you trade Bailey for Arias and Lemon?

ChatterRed
12-05-2008, 04:37 PM
It was written somewhere on here that for catcher's who caught in atleast 50 games, Laird had the worst fielding percentage of all AL catchers. Is he really an upgrade? His offense isn't that impressive either. I just don't get the man-love for Laird. He seems like your basic backup catcher, but there is like a circus going on about him. Weird.

laxtonto
12-05-2008, 04:42 PM
It was written somewhere on here that for catcher's who caught in atleast 50 games, Laird had the worst fielding percentage of all AL catchers. Is he really an upgrade? His offense isn't that impressive either. I just don't get the man-love for Laird. He seems like your basic backup catcher, but there is like a circus going on about him. Weird.

The other question is how much does the very poor pitching staff at Texas hurt Lairds's fielding percentage. I don't care how good you are behind the plate, if you have to keep lunging to make plays you are going to get killed on the number of errors you make. I have bad memories of catching in HS with a very bad staff that doesn't really know where the ball is going.

ChatterRed
12-05-2008, 04:54 PM
EE, Bailey, Thompson, Roenicke to the Giants for Sanderval, Sergio Romo, Matt Cain, Randy Winn.

Brian
12-05-2008, 04:54 PM
For a team that's desperate for RH hitting, I don't see the point in moving EE unless you get something great in return, which I just don't see happening. I'm also feel pretty certain that moving Bailey now would be silly as he's about as low in value as he's ever been.

schmidty622
12-05-2008, 04:56 PM
How about Peavy for Freel, Edwin, Bailey, Maloney, and Stubbs

Peavy
Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto

Bad Boys Bad Boys, Whatcha Gonna Do!

They have Koushmanoff, where would they play EE? And I doubt they would want Freel and Stubbs as they both play the same position and Stubbs is almost ready for MLB.

I think it would take a bit more than what you've outlined to get peavy. They would probably want one of Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Volquez + the prospects you've mentioned.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 05:08 PM
They have Koushmanoff, where would they play EE? And I doubt they would want Freel and Stubbs as they both play the same position and Stubbs is almost ready for MLB.

I think it would take a bit more than what you've outlined to get peavy. They would probably want one of Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Volquez + the prospects you've mentioned.

Doubt it.... They wouldn't even ask for Bruce or Volquez... They're not that stupid... I could see them wanting Cueto... But they also have Adrian Gonzalez at 1B so Votto is out...

Ediwn could play 3rd for them, KK is not locked in by know means...

Bailey, Maloney, Stubbs and Freel I would hop gets it done with Edwin Encarncion...

Thats a Starting 3rd baseman, a Starter, a Starting Outfielder, and CF Prospect and a LHP Prospect...

schmidty622
12-05-2008, 05:12 PM
It's a 3rd baseman with no glove, A starter who got shelled in the bigs last year, a scrappy guy who is always injured, A 24 year old CF prospect who didn't do so hot in winter ball, and a older LHP prospect who I actually like quite a bit although I do wish he threw harder...................................For one of the best young pitchers in the game. They'd be morons to do that deal.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 05:17 PM
It's a 3rd baseman with no glove, A starter who got shelled in the bigs last year, a scrappy guy who is always injured, A 24 year old CF prospect who didn't do so hot in winter ball, and a older LHP prospect who I actually like quite a bit although I do wish he threw harder...................................For one of the best young pitchers in the game. They'd be morons to do that deal.

You're right, we should release all the guys I mentioned...

schmidty622
12-05-2008, 05:21 PM
You're right, we should release all the guys I mentioned...

Release no, but the trade value for those players is not high right now.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 05:55 PM
Release no, but the trade value for those players is not high right now.

Ok, so the Cubs are the only ones in the Peavy Sweepstakes with serious interest and they don't have much to trade...

Josh Vitters and Jeff Samerdzija and Felix Pie...

So This team cannot match that? Give me a Break!

Encarncion has hit 26 Homers last year and is going to get better on offense... Vitters is a prospect with POWER but not guaranteed to hit...

Throw in Freel, Stubbs, or Dickerson, or 2 of those...

Plus Bailey and Maloney... yeah.... So what the Cubs is a better offer huh?

redsfandan
12-05-2008, 05:59 PM
i've read a few times that a 3rd team could be involved to help make the deal work for the cubs.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 06:00 PM
i've read a few times that a 3rd team could be involved to help make the deal work for the cubs.

Yeah, that team was Baltimore and they are OUT...

MLBTradeRumors.com

redsfandan
12-05-2008, 06:19 PM
maybe. who knows who peavy pitches for in '09. but i doubt it will be the reds.

redsfandan
12-05-2008, 09:15 PM
Anyone want to think about a Laird, Marcus Lemon and Arias deal for Bailey and Daryl Thompson?

Starting C, Starting SS or Utility and a potential 2B/SS for Bailey(who really just needs a change of scenery) and Thompson (who I like but still have concerns over).


Lets not forget that Texas can go elsewhere. Detroit is a serious suitor as well.

Would you trade Laird for Thompson?
Would you trade Bailey for Arias and Lemon?

hmmm i'd be tempted. since texas needs decent pitchers so badly they could throw in another player.



EE, Bailey, Thompson, Roenicke to the Giants for Sanderval, Sergio Romo, Matt Cain, Randy Winn.

i prefer noonan over romo but still not bad. we'd have to add to it though for it to be possible. unfortunately i don't think san fran would do it.

fewfirstchoice
12-05-2008, 10:22 PM
Id trade EE to the Giants for Sanchez stragiht up in second. Sanchez would give the Reds a third young top flight starting pitcher to go with Volquez and Cueto.Tose 3 in teh same rotation would be just sick. Sanchezs era was a little high last season(5.01) but he is still young and he had more strike outs than innings pitched last year. Hes a young outstanding pitcher.

As for Bailey I think he will be traded but to who and for what who knows. I would say he goes to the Rangers, they need young pitching for one of there catchers which is what the Reds need.

Hondo
12-05-2008, 11:44 PM
Id trade EE to the Giants for Sanchez stragiht up in second. Sanchez would give the Reds a third young top flight starting pitcher to go with Volquez and Cueto.Tose 3 in teh same rotation would be just sick. Sanchezs era was a little high last season(5.01) but he is still young and he had more strike outs than innings pitched last year. Hes a young outstanding pitcher.

As for Bailey I think he will be traded but to who and for what who knows. I would say he goes to the Rangers, they need young pitching for one of there catchers which is what the Reds need.

I still think ya have to ask for Cain... IMO

laxtonto
12-06-2008, 12:20 AM
hmmm i'd be tempted. since texas needs decent pitchers so badly they could throw in another player.




i prefer noonan over romo but still not bad. we'd have to add to it though for it to be possible. unfortunately i don't think san fran would do it.

The funny part is that neither Bailey nor Thompson would really have a shot at making the Texas opening day rotation.

Both would have to make significant strides to jump over Hurley, Harrison, Holland, and McCarthy or Nippert.

Maybe a 4th guy like Omar Poveda who would have to added to the 40 man for Oscar Castro?

Gerald Laird (http://firstinning.com/players/Gerald-Laird-a/), Marcus Lemon (http://firstinning.com/players/Marcus-Lemon-a/), Omar Poveda (http://firstinning.com/players/Omar-Poveda-a/) and Joaquin Arias (http://firstinning.com/players/Joaquin-Arias-a/) for Bailey (http://firstinning.com/players/Homer-Bailey-a/), Oscar Castro (http://firstinning.com/players/Oscar-Castro-a/) and Daryl Thompson (http://firstinning.com/players/Daryl-Thompson-a/)


Don't know if I really like how much pitching the Reds are giving up, but maybe Oscar Castro could be changed for some other young LA position player, but I really didn't see any on the Low A/Rookie Ball rosters that I thought would be a decent value for Texas. But it is definitely in the Texas GM's MO to get young LA guys as the back part of the deal.

dunner13
12-06-2008, 12:28 AM
I still think ya have to ask for Cain... IMO

No way there giving up cain for a third baseman that cant make the throw from first to third. If you can get sanchez straight up I think you have to make that deal. If he doesnt make it as a starter he could be a pretty nasty closer.

Steviejoe
12-06-2008, 01:50 AM
EE is great at times,you will think he is now going to show his ability,the he hits a rut.His defence kinda worrys me.but when he is hot not a better hitter in the league.I would trade ee to San Francisco for Cain or Sanchez.but who plays third.Please don't move Votto to third.And i like rodriguez at that price,i guess we will have to hurry up and to see what happens.

Hondo
12-06-2008, 01:19 PM
No way there giving up cain for a third baseman that cant make the throw from first to third. If you can get sanchez straight up I think you have to make that deal. If he doesnt make it as a starter he could be a pretty nasty closer.

Dude, I would rather keep EE, Trade for Atkins- Move EE to left, and see if he hits 30 than trade him to SF for Sanchez...

Or just leave him at 3rd base... No Matt Cain, No EE

schmidty622
12-06-2008, 02:48 PM
Dude, I would rather keep EE, Trade for Atkins- Move EE to left, and see if he hits 30 than trade him to SF for Sanchez...

Or just leave him at 3rd base... No Matt Cain, No EE

I'm sure the Giants would have no problem with that.

Hondo
12-06-2008, 02:51 PM
I'm sure the Giants would have no problem with that.

Then they can Run Rich Aurilla out there at 3rd base or bring back Pedro Feliz for all I care...

EE has upside as an offensive player... I am not apposed to trading him, but for a return that would be worth the Trade...

Kingspoint
12-06-2008, 08:52 PM
We should all know who the REDS starting First Baseman will be for a long time beginning September of 2009. Votto's got to go somewhere, and the only possibilities are Left Field, Third Base or off the team.

TheNext44
12-06-2008, 09:37 PM
The funny part is that neither Bailey nor Thompson would really have a shot at making the Texas opening day rotation.

Both would have to make significant strides to jump over Hurley, Harrison, Holland, and McCarthy or Nippert.
Maybe a 4th guy like Omar Poveda who would have to added to the 40 man for Oscar Castro?

Gerald Laird (http://firstinning.com/players/Gerald-Laird-a/), Marcus Lemon (http://firstinning.com/players/Marcus-Lemon-a/), Omar Poveda (http://firstinning.com/players/Omar-Poveda-a/) and Joaquin Arias (http://firstinning.com/players/Joaquin-Arias-a/) for Bailey (http://firstinning.com/players/Homer-Bailey-a/), Oscar Castro (http://firstinning.com/players/Oscar-Castro-a/) and Daryl Thompson (http://firstinning.com/players/Daryl-Thompson-a/)


Don't know if I really like how much pitching the Reds are giving up, but maybe Oscar Castro could be changed for some other young LA position player, but I really didn't see any on the Low A/Rookie Ball rosters that I thought would be a decent value for Texas. But it is definitely in the Texas GM's MO to get young LA guys as the back part of the deal.

You sound like me when I am talking about Reds prospects. They are all going to reach their potential! ;)


But seriously, Bailey and Thompson are easily at least on par with or ahead of all the guys you mentioned on a depth chart, except for McCarthy and maybe Holland, but he has only pitched like 20 innings over single A.

Nippert has never been good, ever, while Harrison and Hurley give up a ton of hits, even in the minors. Harrison had a few good games last year, but mostly was very lucky with run support. Both Thompson and Bailey had a few good games last year too, and have much better stuff than any of the guys you mentioned outside of McCarthy and Holland. In fact Bailey has better stuff than anyone on the Rangers staff, but he has yet to put it together.

I think the Rangers would salivate at acquiring arms like Bailey and Thompson, they are better than what they have right now.

laxtonto
12-06-2008, 10:17 PM
You sound like me when I am talking about Reds prospects. They are all going to reach their potential! ;)


But seriously, Bailey and Thompson are easily at least on par with or ahead of all the guys you mentioned on a depth chart, except for McCarthy and maybe Holland, but he has only pitched like 20 innings over single A.

Nippert has never been good, ever, while Harrison and Hurley give up a ton of hits, even in the minors. Harrison had a few good games last year, but mostly was very lucky with run support. Both Thompson and Bailey had a few good games last year too, and have much better stuff than any of the guys you mentioned outside of McCarthy and Holland. In fact Bailey has better stuff than anyone on the Rangers staff, but he has yet to put it together.

I think the Rangers would salivate at acquiring arms like Bailey and Thompson, they are better than what they have right now.

The Problem is Feldman, Millwood, Padilla and McCarthy are all pretty much guaranteed a spot in the rotation. Nippert is out of options and Feldman are out of options. So unless Harrison, Hurley or in an extreme case Hunter or Holland completely out preform Nippert, they have to start in AAA. The same would be said for Bailey and Thompson.

Harrison was 9-3 last year, and he is actually the most likely choice for the 5th spot after Nippert. Just because he has had MLB success. And also lets not forget if Texas does deal Saltamchia or Teagarden who ever they get will displace an arm from the rotation. So needless to say, it will be EXTREMELY difficult for Bailey or Thompson to start at Texas unless they deal an older starter.

TheNext44
12-06-2008, 10:31 PM
The Problem is Feldman, Millwood, Padilla and McCarthy are all pretty much guaranteed a spot in the rotation. Nippert is out of options and Feldman are out of options. So unless Harrison, Hurley or in an extreme case Hunter or Holland completely out preform Nippert, they have to start in AAA. The same would be said for Bailey and Thompson.

Harrison was 9-3 last year, and he is actually the most likely choice for the 5th spot after Nippert. Just because he has had MLB success. And also lets not forget if Texas does deal Saltamchia or Teagarden who ever they get will displace an arm from the rotation. So needless to say, it will be EXTREMELY difficult for Bailey or Thompson to start at Texas unless they deal an older starter.

Thanks for the explanation! :thumbup:

Still, if the Rangers were to keep arms like Bailey and Thompson in the minors only because they are worried about the options on Feldman and Nippert, they need new managment. But that is assuming that they are ready for next year, which there is no evidence of.

redsfandan
12-07-2008, 04:29 AM
that's what trades are for. they could trade for bailey/thompson and then make a 2nd deal to open up a spot in the rotation. it wouldn't matter as much how they'd make out in the 2nd deal. the point is to improve their pitching. texas is expected to make moves to improve their pitching and i wouldn't be surprised if it was more than one pitcher they acquire to do that. how many of the pitchers they have now have the upside of bailey?