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TRF
12-08-2008, 03:50 PM
M2's post in the Dye/Bailey thread about Jocketty blazing his own trail got me thinking. You get to make 3 moves. Nobody is untouchable throughout the system. No FA is unattainable, but all trades must be realistic. In the end, you must have a complete 25 man roster ready for Opening Day.

Jpup
12-08-2008, 03:54 PM
Sign Mark Teixera
Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign CC Sabathia


Win World Series. ;)

M2
12-08-2008, 03:54 PM
No fair, mine took six moves. Don't punish the folks who want to use extra dynamite. Anyway, here's my never-gonna-happen plan again:

If it were up to me, I'd look to deal Bailey for David DeJesus, currently on a two-year, $8.3M deal with a $6M club option in 2011.

I'd also look to move Joey Votto for Alex Rios. I'd do OBM's Edwin Encarnacion for Jonathan Sanchez and Emmanuel Burriss deal. I'd try to put together a prospect package around Drew Stubbs, Juan Francisco or Devin Mesoraco for Chris Snyder. Then I'd offer Bob Abreu something like 2 years, $22M to play 1B and Joe Crede something like 2 years, $11M to play 3B (provided my doctors think his back is in decent condition).

That would net you something like:

DeJesus - CF
Phillips - 2B
Abreu - 1B
Rios - RF
Bruce - LF
Crede - 3B
Snyder - C
Burriss - SS

And a rotation of Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto and Sanchez.

Hopefully that would give you a deep, slashing, speedy offense with decent power and quality defense.

corkedbat
12-08-2008, 03:55 PM
Sign Mark Teixera
Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign CC Sabathia


Win World Series. ;)

Manny's not good enough defensively :D

TRF
12-08-2008, 03:56 PM
Ok, maybe I should make the FA's reasonable as well.

cincy09
12-08-2008, 03:57 PM
Sign Mark Teixera
Sign Manny Ramirez
Sign CC Sabathia


Win World Series. ;)

Votto in left, Bruce in Center, ManRam in right? :beerme:

TRF
12-08-2008, 03:58 PM
BTW, here is what I'd do:

Sign Furcal to a 4 year $40 mil deal. HUGE risk I know
Sign Dunn to a 5/75 deal
Trade Frazier/Stubbs/Ramirez/Maloney to SF for Matt Cain

Mario-Rijo
12-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Sign Juan Rivera
Trade for Miguel Montero
Trade For Macier Izturis

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2008, 04:30 PM
-Edwin Encarnacion and "C" prospect to the Giants for LHP Jonathan Sanchez and SS Emmanuel Burriss.

-Sign Juan Rivera to a 2-year deal

-Trade Homer Bailey for a catcher in the class of Kelly Shoppach, Miguel Montero, Chris Snyder, or Taylor Teagarden.

And to replace EdE, sign Joe Crede to a one year deal to bridge the gap to Todd Frazier.

M2
12-08-2008, 04:30 PM
Sign Juan Rivera
Trade for Miguel Montero
Trade For Macier Izturis

I like that one. Low key, but it's got upside.

redsmetz
12-08-2008, 04:33 PM
Joe Crede something like 2 years, $11M to play 3B (provided my doctors think his back is in decent condition).

Well there's your falacy - have you ever seen Tim Kremchek walk away from someone he could cut on??? :p:

RedEye
12-08-2008, 04:38 PM
Votto in left, Bruce in Center, ManRam in right? :beerme:

Is that sarcastic? Because that is one bad defensive outfield!

My three realistic moves:

* Trade Homer Bailey+Chris Dickerson to the Fish for Jeremy Hermida+prospect
* Sign Juan Rivera to a one or two-year deal
* Sign Rafael Furcal to a 3-year deal that beats the A's offer

SS Furcal
OF Hermida
OF Bruce
3B Encarnacion
1B Votto
OF Rivera
2B Phillips
C Hanigan
P

I share the worries about Furcal's back, but I'd rather sign him than trade Bailey for Dye. I think Hanigan can handle things for a year.

TRF
12-08-2008, 04:49 PM
How about this one:

Drew Stubbs and Matt Maloney for Macier Izturis
Ryan Freel and 1 mil to the Nats for Elija Dukes
Sign Ben Sheets to a 5 year 80mil deal

I'm all in on this one.

Johnny Footstool
12-08-2008, 04:55 PM
I'd offer Juan Rivera a three year deal, up to $15 million total value.

I'd offer Dunn 4 years/70 million to play 1B.

If Dunn accepts, I'd deal Joey Votto for an Alex Rios-type.

TRF
12-08-2008, 04:58 PM
I'd offer Juan Rivera a three year deal, up to $15 million total value.

I'd offer Dunn 4 years/70 million to play 1B.

If Dunn accepts, I'd deal Joey Votto for an Alex Rios-type.

That leaves you a black hole at SS.

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2008, 04:59 PM
Stubbs and Maloney for Izturis? No way. He's decent but not that good. You could easily get Erick Aybar for that price.

TRF
12-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Is Aybar that much better? if so that's cool with me. :)

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Is Aybar that much better? if so that's cool with me. :)

He's three years younger than Izturis and has more potential with the bat IMO.

Raisor
12-08-2008, 05:37 PM
Homer to Chi for Dye to Atlanta for Escobar.

Sign Adam Dunn, 3 years 45 Million

I'm saving the third move until later.

Mario-Rijo
12-08-2008, 05:46 PM
He's three years younger than Izturis and has more potential with the bat IMO.

But you really believe the Angels will trade off Aybar their future at SS for Stubbs and Maloney? If so I am all for it, I don't see it, but I do think that they would take less for Izturis who is an ideal bridge to a future stud SS for us.

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2008, 05:49 PM
But you really believe the Angels will trade off Aybar their future at SS for Stubbs and Maloney? If so I am all for it, I don't see it, but I do think that they would take less for Izturis who is an ideal bridge to a future stud SS for us.

For the right price they will. He's more potential than production right now. And they have Brandon Wood and Izturis in house to replace him.

corkedbat
12-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Gosh, all this Adam Dunn talk, you'd think he was the next Chris Denorfia :evil:

Scrap Irony
12-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Sign Ronny Cedeno from the non-tender list for SS. Sign him and pray he's more AAA stud than major league disappointment. My bet is he's a possible leadoff hitter if given the spot and told to work it out. He may blossom under Dusty. If he's crap, there are a ton of back-up options, from Keppinger to AGon to Janish. (I still like Rosales as an offensive SS, but wonder about the range.)

Trade Bailey and Arroyo to Texas for Marlon Byrd and Taylor Teargarden. Start Teargarden at C, with Hanigan backing him up. He'll be expensive, but the combination of two erswhile aces (the Rangers could sell it that way, anyway) for a catcher and a glorified fourth OF looks like a steal. (Hell, it probably is overpaying, but I like young, cheap catchers and Cincinnati has nothing in the pipeline even remotely looking like an even bet to succeed at AAA, let alone the major league level. Byrd, too, is a valuable chip, as he would platoon with Dickerson in CF and play a day or two a week in left and right field. He's a solid bat and a good glove in any of the three OF spots. I think the Reds could net him about 450 ABs this season. He's fairly cheap as well.

Sign free agent OF Rocco Baldelli to a two-year, $8 million contract with incentives that push it to $15 million, if earned. No one seems to be on the former top prospect. I'm a big believer in his new regime of medication and he's a workout horse, so you know he'll be in great shape. Too, he's outstanding with the leather, a true CF. My guess is that he breaks out in the GABP offensively an shows enough speed to net a 30/30 season and Comeback Player of the Year honors.

That's a lineup of:
Cedeno SS
Dickerson/ Byrd CF
Votto 1b
EdE 3b
Bruce RF
Baldelli LF
Phillips 2B
Teargarden C

A rotation of:
Harang
Cueto
Volquez
Owings
Ramirez

If I could have another move, I'd look to an expensive stop-gap #3 starter, or even bust the bank with Ben Sheets (4/ $17 million per year) and pray for health.

Benihana
12-08-2008, 07:20 PM
1. Homer Bailey for Jermaine Dye; Dye and $5MM for Yunel Escobar (Braves need $ to sign Burnett and Furcal)
2. Joey Votto for Alex Rios
3. Chris Valaika and Daryl Thompson for Adrian Beltre (EdE goes to 1B)

SS Escobar
LF Rios
RF Bruce
3B Beltre
1B Encarnacion
2B Phillips
C Hanigan
CF Dickerson

SP Volquez
SP Harang
SP Cueto
SP Arroyo
SP Owings

corkedbat
12-08-2008, 07:35 PM
I think Rios is decent, but over-hyped. I wouldn't deal Votto for him.

1a. Deal Bailey for Dye (CHW)
1b Sign Furcal
2a. Deal EdE for Sanchez (SF)
2b. Deal Arroyo, Francisco and Reoncike for Beltre (Sea)
3a. Deal Freel for Ramon Hernandez(BAL)or for Snyder, Montero, Soppach or Snyder if they can be had for minor leaguers
3b. Sign Dennis Reyes, Arthur Rhodes, Joe Beimel or Wil Ohlman

CF Dickerson/Hairston ?
SS Furcal
1B Votto
LF Dye
RF Bruce
3B Beltre
2B Philllips
CA Hernandez/Hanigan

Bench:

RH PH
Keppinger
Castillo

Rotation:

Volquez
Harang
Sanchez
Cueto
Owings/Ramirez

Bullpen:

Owiings/Ramierz/Masset
Lincoln
Reyes/Rhodes/Beimel/Ohlman
Weathers
Bray
Burton
Cordero

M2
12-08-2008, 07:47 PM
I think Rios is decent, but over-hyped. I wouldn't deal Votto for him.

Gold glove-quality defense in RF, fastest RF in baseball, consistent BA hitter, great gap power. There isn't a 1B in baseball I wouldn't trade for him outside of Albert Pujols.

blumj
12-08-2008, 07:55 PM
You guys really think it takes a multi-year deal to sign Juan Rivera? He's barely played the last 2 seasons, and hasn't hit very well when he has played. I was actually thinking he might be one of the guys stuck having to take a minor league contract.

Mario-Rijo
12-08-2008, 08:04 PM
You guys really think it takes a multi-year deal to sign Juan Rivera? He's barely played the last 2 seasons, and hasn't hit very well when he has played. I was actually thinking he might be one of the guys stuck having to take a minor league contract.

Acutally I think there is an outside chance if you offer him LF no strings attached he may take a 1 yr deal so he can have the opportunity to prove himself and become a FA again next offseason. How about a 1 yr deal with a mutual option (both have to accept) and in this case I think it works for both. And I think 8 million is what it would take at most for both years 3.5 in '09 and the option for 4.5 in '10.

redsmetz
12-08-2008, 08:51 PM
Acutally I think there is an outside chance if you offer him LF no strings attached he may take a 1 yr deal so he can have the opportunity to prove himself and become a FA again next offseason. How about a 1 yr deal with a mutual option (both have to accept) and in this case I think it works for both. And I think 8 million is what it would take at most for both years 3.5 in '09 and the option for 4.5 in '10.

Given the economy, there may a number of players who take one year deals and give Free Agency a whirl next year in hopes the economy (and the baseball market) is in a better place.

Mario-Rijo
12-08-2008, 09:03 PM
Given the economy, there may a number of players who take one year deals and give Free Agency a whirl next year in hopes the economy (and the baseball market) is in a better place.

Very True, probably a lot of those deals will be in January I'd imagine.

deltachi8
12-08-2008, 09:06 PM
Given the economy, there may a number of players who take one year deals and give Free Agency a whirl next year in hopes the economy (and the baseball market) is in a better place.

It's a risk, but I think you are correct.

Take Redzone's favorite love him or hate him, Adam Dunn. If I were Dunn, other than having something much better to do than posting on Redszone, I would seriously consider a one year deal if I can't get a 4-5 year deal at $15M+ per.

In order to take that risk, a player needs to be relatively young (for a FA) and have a good track record of durability.

As for three moves....

1) Offer Dunn, 4 yrs, 60 Mill. He plays 1B
2) Offer Votto for Alex Rios.
3) Offer Bailey to Chi for Dye, Dye plus $ or b/c prospect/or AGon (salary paid by CIN) to Atl for Escobar.

It would take a few more, but that's the biguns.

corkedbat
12-08-2008, 09:14 PM
Given the economy, there may a number of players who take one year deals and give Free Agency a whirl next year in hopes the economy (and the baseball market) is in a better place.

Posted the same thing in a different thread.

Degenerate39
12-08-2008, 09:53 PM
1. Give Dunn a 3 to 4 year contract.
2. Trade Edwin and a few prospects (Bailey?) for Matt Cain

PuffyPig
12-08-2008, 11:12 PM
Sign Ben Sheets to a 5 year 80mil deal



He may not get more than a 1 year offer.

He certainly won't get 5 years at $16M.

I'm betting 2 years at $12M per.