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View Full Version : Why is Hal McCoy always wrong?



Wheelhouse
12-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Seems like he never gets it right on major organizational moves and trades.

Mario-Rijo
12-08-2008, 11:38 PM
For Hal's sake, hopefully this happens........the reality is, as much I respect Hal McCoy as a writer, being a hall of famer and all, he's slipping. He's getting to the point where he's running with anything he can get his hands on just to have a 'scoop'....that's not good for himself or the fans.

My thoughts exactly!

kaldaniels
12-08-2008, 11:40 PM
Can we give him some slack for the Oester report...that deal was in place.

He blew the Krivsky report.

Frankly I think the jury may still be out on the Dye trade.

Am I missing any other blunders (major) that he made?

Matt700wlw
12-08-2008, 11:50 PM
My thoughts exactly!

I hope that's wrong, too...

Wheelhouse
12-09-2008, 12:14 AM
Can we give him some slack for the Oester report...that deal was in place.

He blew the Krivsky report.

Frankly I think the jury may still be out on the Dye trade.

Am I missing any other blunders (major) that he made?

He blew the Dan O'Brien hiring--saying Krivsky had been hired.

He repeatedly called the Griffey to Reds deal dead.

He repeatedly said there was no way Griffey would accept being traded from the Reds, and that we ignorant readers should "get off it." This because he thought Griffey had a no-trade clause, which he didn't. He was a 10-5 player, which for some reason, Hal can't distinguish between.

And there have been others which I can't recall at the moment...

Krusty
12-09-2008, 01:25 AM
Then explain to me how he got in the writers' portion of the Hall of Fame?

cincrazy
12-09-2008, 07:16 AM
I'm really tired of people running Hal McCoy's name through the mud. He's been an incredible writer for over three decades, and he's one of the best human beings you'll ever meet. I was a journalism student at OSU, and he constantly took the time to reply to my emails, give me tips, and invited me up to the press box at GABP. He's a 100% class act. He's made a few mistakes, yes. So has Marty. So did Joe. So has Vin Scully. I'm not saying he should never be criticized, but I am saying some of the heat he catches around here is entirely unfair.

Jpup
12-09-2008, 07:17 AM
He tries to be first to report things that are not true?

Krusty
12-09-2008, 07:22 AM
He tries to be first to report things that are not true?

I guess we can put Peter Gammons and Ken Rosenthal in the same category? Reporters go by their sources. If someone inside the White Sox organization said this about a Bailey for Dye deal while being off the record, sure the White Sox are going to deny it to the media if talks are still ungoing. You don't think the Reds aren't doing the same thing with their trade discussions? It is part of the game.

Like I said, come the end of the week I think we'll all have to owe Hal McCoy a big apology.

Ltlabner
12-09-2008, 07:33 AM
Slow news day at Redszone?

Krusty
12-09-2008, 07:34 AM
Slow news day at Redszone?

7:30 am on the East Coast. Another long day ahead. With the Winter Meetings on, there is no such thing as sleep.

BoydsOfSummer
12-09-2008, 08:21 AM
Maybe, since he doesn't see well anymore, he thinks it's one of his reliable sources when actually it's an Evil SERP operative. Just a theory.

15fan
12-09-2008, 09:21 AM
I really liked it during the Fastball.com days when he told us that Delino DeShields was going to be the 2nd baseman for the Reds.

Good writers don't spend their careers at the Dayton Daily News.

Chip R
12-09-2008, 09:25 AM
I liked it when he said that Eduardo Perez had his big toe cut off instead of his big toenail.

REDREAD
12-09-2008, 09:54 AM
He repeatedly called the Griffey to Reds deal dead.

He was repeating what John Allen said.

Hal has gotten some things right. Also, he clearly called the Dye trade a rumor.

I don't get why people are piling on Hal. Would you rather have someone not report anything until the Reds issue a press release? Would you rather have not had any information about the possible Dye-Homer trade? Makes for a boring offseason. Hal is good at scooping up legitimate rumors in the offseason. I'm glad he is still reporting for the Reds, and I think when he retires, we are going to get a lot less information in the offseason.

Heath
12-09-2008, 10:30 AM
He was repeating what John Allen said.

Hal has gotten some things right. Also, he clearly called the Dye trade a rumor.

I don't get why people are piling on Hal. Would you rather have someone not report anything until the Reds issue a press release? Would you rather have not had any information about the possible Dye-Homer trade? Makes for a boring offseason. Hal is good at scooping up legitimate rumors in the offseason. I'm glad he is still reporting for the Reds, and I think when he retires, we are going to get a lot less information in the offseason.

McCoy > Fay

CTrent/TonyJackson > Fay

It could be a lot worse.

Wheelhouse
12-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Then explain to me how he got in the writers' portion of the Hall of Fame?

Folksy, metaphor laden articles and simply, time with one paper covering one organization.

*BaseClogger*
12-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Has anybody posted this?


Dying to hear about Dye

By Hal McCoy | Monday, December 8, 2008, 04:23 PM

So far, on this chilly Monday afternoon in Dayton, there has been no confirmation or announcement on the trade of pitcher Homer Bailey to the Chicago White Sox (with a couple of minor-leaguers tossed in) for outfielder Jermaine Dye.

As many of you might suspect - because there is no LAS VEGAS dateline on my newspaper stories, I am NOT at the winter meetings. The economy being what it is, it just made little sense for the paper to send me to the meetings for four or five days when news out the winter meetings is so scarce.

Let’s hope there hasn’t been a snag in the deal. My source, reliable and an insider with the White Sox, says there is a deal in place. Or was.

White Sox GM Ken Williams is known as a tough guy to deal with and has been known to change his mind on a quick whim. And he might want more than the Reds are willing to part with from the minor-league system.

The deal certainly would be good for the Reds, even though Dye is 34 years old and Bailey is only 22.

For once the Reds have a surplus of starting pitchers and they need a righthanded bat, preferably in the outfield. Dye, who hit 34 homers last year, would hit that many, if not more, playing in Great American Ball Park.

While he does strike out (104 times last season), it is still far fewer than Adam Dunn (164) and Dye is a better defensive player and baserunner. He also hits for a better average - .292 to Dunn’s .245. They are about equals in RBIs (Dunn 100, Dye 96). Dunn takes more walks - 112 to 44.

It is a good trade for the Reds. Bailey still has a large upside and may soon live up to his pre-signing hype, but it isn’t likely to happen in Cincinnati.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/12/08/dying_to_hear_about_dye.html

camisadelgolf
12-09-2008, 11:15 AM
I picked the third option, but I think the second one is applicable, too.

flyer85
12-09-2008, 11:22 AM
much ado about nothing.

TRF
12-09-2008, 11:30 AM
This because he thought Griffey had a no-trade clause, which he didn't. He was a 10-5 player, which for some reason, Hal can't distinguish between.

This is IMO picking nits. for all intents and purposes, 10/5 acts as a full no trade clause. A player with either has to approve ANY trade.

I can take Hal or leave him. I have the Dayton Daily News bookmarked, I'll pretty much read anything Reds related.

Also IMO what Hal does is generally in promotion of the team. He's not overly critical and he isn't on the payroll. He is getting on in years and his sources are likely starting to dry up. But, again, IMO he reported the Dye trade as a rumor with a source saying it was a done deal.

If I were Hal, I'd take my source to task a bit.

Still Hal does more to promote the Reds than Marty does.

osuceltic
12-09-2008, 11:32 AM
Good writers don't spend their careers at the Dayton Daily News.

That's not true and it's not fair. The DDN has shelled out over the years to keep some high-profile guys like McCoy, Archdeacon and Nuhn. There was a time when it was considered a really strong metro newspaper with an excellent sports desk. Hal has made some mistakes in recent years, and the newspaper has tolerated too many of those in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact that McCoy not only has been the best Reds beat writer for a long, lont time, but also one of the most respected in the business for the bulk of his career.

The guy had a job he loved and found a place he wanted to raise a family, and the DDN made sure it kept him happy. Look what they've done for him as his eyesight failed. Why wouldn't he want to stay and work for an organization like that?

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 11:37 AM
He blew the Dan O'Brien hiring--saying Krivsky had been hired.

He repeatedly called the Griffey to Reds deal dead.

He repeatedly said there was no way Griffey would accept being traded from the Reds, and that we ignorant readers should "get off it." This because he thought Griffey had a no-trade clause, which he didn't. He was a 10-5 player, which for some reason, Hal can't distinguish between.

And there have been others which I can't recall at the moment...

He's been wrong numerous times. His playbook includes blaming his editors. The one that comes to mind is when his story headlined "Hall of Famer Steve Garvey". If that was my article I would have stated it was a mistake that shouldn't have happened at this paper and I'll take care of it immediately. Instead he gets defensive and says he has no control over what his editors do and then the mistake stays on the website. It never did get corrected. He needs to realize that stuff like that reflects poorly on him.

One thing is for sure, he does not like to be caught with an inaccuracy in his articles.

Wheelhouse
12-09-2008, 12:43 PM
This is IMO picking nits. for all intents and purposes, 10/5 acts as a full no trade clause. A player with either has to approve ANY trade.

I can take Hal or leave him. I have the Dayton Daily News bookmarked, I'll pretty much read anything Reds related.

Also IMO what Hal does is generally in promotion of the team. He's not overly critical and he isn't on the payroll. He is getting on in years and his sources are likely starting to dry up. But, again, IMO he reported the Dye trade as a rumor with a source saying it was a done deal.

If I were Hal, I'd take my source to task a bit.

Still Hal does more to promote the Reds than Marty does.

Actually, you're wrong. With a no trade clause, a team cannot conduct a trade until the player releases his no-trade rights. No trade can be presented to the commissioner's office in this instance until the player has agreed to allow a trade to be pursued. With a 10-5 player, the trade can be made and presented to the commissioner's office, but the final act is the player approving it, for which he has three days. The difference is that a 10-5 trade is made public and public pressures come to bear, on all sides. This can have a tremendous effect on the player's decision a) because of public opinion (i.e. f there is an outcry for the player to stay, or obvious enthusiasm for the trade) and b) because it is different to agree to be traded with a host of unknowns vs. knowing that a certain trade is in place to a certain team. If you were a player, you'd say 10-5 vs a no-trade clause is very different indeed.

Also, Hal does not do more to promote the Reds than Marty. Marty is the face of the franchise around the country, like him or not.

TRF
12-09-2008, 01:34 PM
Actually, you're wrong. With a no trade clause, a team cannot conduct a trade until the player releases his no-trade rights. No trade can be presented to the commissioner's office in this instance until the player has agreed to allow a trade to be pursued. With a 10-5 player, the trade can be made and presented to the commissioner's office, but the final act is the player approving it, for which he has three days. The difference is that a 10-5 trade is made public and public pressures come to bear, on all sides. This can have a tremendous effect on the player's decision a) because of public opinion (i.e. f there is an outcry for the player to stay, or obvious enthusiasm for the trade) and b) because it is different to agree to be traded with a host of unknowns vs. knowing that a certain trade is in place to a certain team. If you were a player, you'd say 10-5 vs a no-trade clause is very different indeed.

Also, Hal does not do more to promote the Reds than Marty. Marty is the face of the franchise around the country, like him or not.

semantics. plain and simple in either case, the trade cannot be completed without player approval. and as a courtesy, GM's almost ALWAYS go to the player first.

And as far as Marty being the "Face" (voice would be more accurate) um, no. The face is a player, and right now, that is in flux. Marty may be the voice, be he hardly promotes the team. Trashes it? yes, he does that a lot.

BoydsOfSummer
12-09-2008, 03:55 PM
Dying to hear about Dye

By Hal McCoy | Monday, December 8, 2008, 04:23 PM

So far, on this chilly Monday afternoon in Dayton, there has been no confirmation or announcement on the trade of pitcher Homer Bailey to the Chicago White Sox (with a couple of minor-leaguers tossed in) for outfielder Jermaine Dye.


That's the part that scares me. Homer straight up is fine with me.

Ltlabner
12-09-2008, 04:23 PM
I guess I just don't take sports seriously enough because I care about "excellence in journalisim" with sports writers as much as I do the intern covering the local tallent show and the garage sale listings. They really aren't much above a local highschool newspaper reporter doing a hard hitting expose on the quality of the caffeteria food.

It's just hard to find the energy to work up ire over a "report" about rumors, speculation and "inside sources" when that's about all a sports reporter has to go on until the deal is made official.

Besides which, when did "inside sources" become some sort of touch-stone for rock solid truth and accuracy? If you read "inside sources" and bet the farm it's gospel truth, accurate and correct that's a you problem.

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 04:29 PM
If Hal wasn't sure he shouldn't have written the story since the rumor was already out there. Unless he had something that could advance the story, he should have stayed quiet. I still think Dye may very well be in the Reds Opening Day lineup but this story does not reflect well on Hal.

Ltabner, I don't think I hold sportswriters to a high standard. I hold them to the same standard that I hold RZers. If someone here came out and said "I have a source and ...is a done deal", I'd climb over them as well.

Ltlabner
12-09-2008, 04:35 PM
Ltabner, I don't think I hold sportswriters to a high standard. I hold them to the same standard that I hold RZers. If someone here came out and said "I have a source and ...is a done deal", I'd climb over them as well.

That's where we differ.

If someone here came out and said, "I have a source and ....is a done deal" I'd think to myself, "this is a faceless person on the internet who has as much chance of having an inside source as I do hitting a curveball". It would never occur to me to put stock into what "someone" on the internet reported. When it was revealed the report was in error I'd think "yep...about what I expect out of an internet rumor".

Same goes for sports writers. I pretty much assume what they report is gibberish so it's hard to get worked up when it comes to pass.

Unassisted
12-09-2008, 04:38 PM
If Hal wasn't sure he shouldn't have written the story since the rumor was already out there. Unless he had something that could advance the story, he should have stayed quiet. What if the source was someone well-connected who had provided correct information before? Without knowing what his scoop was based on, it's silly to place all the blame on Hal.

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 04:46 PM
What if the source was someone well-connected who had provided correct information before? Without knowing what his scoop was based on, it's silly to place all the blame on Hal.

It all comes back to Hal. If his source is such that it can't be announced then Hal has to take the hit for it and that's exactly what's happening

cincrazy
12-09-2008, 04:54 PM
I really liked it during the Fastball.com days when he told us that Delino DeShields was going to be the 2nd baseman for the Reds.

Good writers don't spend their careers at the Dayton Daily News.

Correct.... only people that work at the New York Times are good writers...

Wheelhouse
12-09-2008, 05:00 PM
semantics. plain and simple in either case, the trade cannot be completed without player approval. and as a courtesy, GM's almost ALWAYS go to the player first.

And as far as Marty being the "Face" (voice would be more accurate) um, no. The face is a player, and right now, that is in flux. Marty may be the voice, be he hardly promotes the team. Trashes it? yes, he does that a lot.

I'm sorry, it's not semantics--it has had a very real effect on trades. Griffey was not contacted as a courtesy before he was traded. He was told a trade was in place and had three days to decide whether to leave or not. If he had a no trade clause, Griffey would have had to volunteer to waive those rights before a deal was struck. A team cannot ask a player to waive his no-trade rights, or any other right in his contract, as it is a violation of the collective bargaining agreement. As well, a team cannot strike a deal using a player without having the waiver in hand, as one deal can effect another with a different team, and GMs could use no-trade players to manipulate the market. 10-5 players are entirely different and are MUCH more capable of being traded than players with a no-trade clause. Had Griffey had a no trade clause, Hal would have been correct in telling readers to "get off" the idea of trading Griffey. The fact is Hal didn't know the details of Griffey's situation, which did allow a trade to happen. Marty is a radio broadcaster, but the Reds lead with his image, and he is the most recognizable part of the franchise. He is on every caravan, front and center at Redsfest, and is the first guy the media goes to when a major Reds event happens.

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 05:02 PM
I wonder if Hal's pretty ticked that he's not in LV...It's pretty hard to do the things Fay is doing (interviewing Dusty, giving us the heads up on the Orioles deal for Freel) if you're sitting in Dayton. With Hal's eyesight I don't know how well he texts...Seems to me the Winter Meetings would rank as a must for a sportswriter to be there in person.

Chip R
12-09-2008, 05:04 PM
I wonder if Hal's pretty ticked that he's not in LV...It's pretty hard to do the things Fay is doing (interviewing Dusty, giving us the heads up on the Orioles deal for Freel) if you're sitting in Dayton. With Hal's eyesight I don't know how well he texts...Seems to me the Winter Meetings would rank as a must for a sportswriter to be there in person.


Yeah, I think I'd rather be in Vagas than Dayton.

westofyou
12-09-2008, 06:00 PM
Correct.... only people that work at the New York Times are good writers...

Pretty much is the way it seems these days. Just 20 years ago there were many papers that could boast a great read in more than a few sections of the paper. Now a days more often than not it's all content purchased and placed. And a lot of the hard news, travel section and opinion stuff seems to be coming from the NY Times and a few of the others that haven't become a shadow of their former self (Like the La Times and the SF Chronicle)

cincrazy
12-09-2008, 06:28 PM
Pretty much is the way it seems these days. Just 20 years ago there were many papers that could boast a great read in more than a few sections of the paper. Now a days more often than not it's all content purchased and placed. And a lot of the hard news, travel section and opinion stuff seems to be coming from the NY Times and a few of the others that haven't become a shadow of their former self (Like the La Times and the SF Chronicle)

I think a big part of that is the good writer's can't stay at the smaller paper's anymore and make jack squat, writer's like Hal that have been around for years being the exception. The newspaper industry is dying a very quick death, and it's sad to see.

RedFanAlways1966
12-09-2008, 09:31 PM
Good writers don't spend their careers at the Dayton Daily News.

Hmmm. Let me see...

Hal McCoy is the third Dayton newspaperman to win the J.G. Taylor Spink Award, joining Si Burick (1982) and Ritter Collett (1991).

I believe Collett was with the now defunct Dayton Journal Herald, but just sayin'. Cincinnati is a baseball town. Dayton is a mere 45 miles from a baseball town. Good writers do spend their careers in Dayton. Three of them were good enough to have their names put in Cooperstown by their peers.

Now many can continue bashing a man who has dedicated his career to the following/reporting a team you all love. Hell, you all spend countless hours here. No shame, no shame.