PDA

View Full Version : Baker not comfortable with Dickerson in CF....



Blimpie
12-09-2008, 12:07 PM
Maybe I have just missed it--but this is the first time I have heard Dusty publically indicate that he was concerned about the durability of Dickerson (not Freel) when it comes to patrolling CF in 2009:

http://blogs.rotoworld.com/matthewpouliot/


Dusty Baker said that the Reds are "in the market for a right-handed bat" and specifically "a corner outfielder," which suggests that the Jermaine Dye-for-Homer Bailey rumor that was shot down by general manager Walt Jocketty may still have some life. In fact, Baker admitted that the Reds were in talks with the White Sox about Dye "a couple weeks ago" before backing off "because of the economics."

Asked about potentially dealing Bailey, Baker replied: "We're not in the give-away business. People just want to take this from us and take that from. We are not giving anything away." Of course, minutes earlier he noted that the Reds were "most definitely" interested in Dye, so presumably dealing for him wouldn't qualify as "giving anything away."

Interestingly, Baker more or less freaked out when asked about the perception that he doesn't like young, inexperienced players, bringing up the fact that he has children, nieces and nephews, and godchildren as reason why the theory is off base. Seriously. "They all love Uncle Dusty," Baker said. "I don't even want to defend that anymore." Baker is no doubt a big hit among family members, but he's never asked any of them to throw 130 pitches in a start.

Finally, a minor note with some potential NL-only league fantasy implications: Baker indicated that he doesn't feel comfortable heading into the season with Chris Dickerson penciled in as the starting center fielder because "his track record and injuries makes you a little apprehensive."

flyer85
12-09-2008, 12:09 PM
But he is with Patterson. Bring back CP!!

Tom Servo
12-09-2008, 12:17 PM
Uncle Dusty probably favors the older, veteran nieces and nephews.

RedEye
12-09-2008, 12:18 PM
C'mon guys, Dusty does have a point here. Dickerson has had a lot of injuries, so to place too much faith in him at this point is probably not a wise move. I'm the first to attack stupid Dusty-isms, but this isn't really one of them.

Joseph
12-09-2008, 12:24 PM
C'mon guys, Dusty does have a point here. Dickerson has had a lot of injuries, so to place too much faith in him at this point is probably not a wise move. I'm the first to attack stupid Dusty-isms, but this isn't really one of them.

Agreed in this case.

flyer85
12-09-2008, 12:27 PM
Dusty prefers the known and crappy over the unknown, that's how Patterson got here in the first place. There is nothing wrong in going with Dickerson, just have a plan B. Instead it seems as if Dusty wants someone else in CF and to use Dickerson as plan B. The Reds are unlikely going anywhere, let Dickerson play.

Blimpie
12-09-2008, 12:30 PM
C'mon guys, Dusty does have a point here. Dickerson has had a lot of injuries, so to place too much faith in him at this point is probably not a wise move. I'm the first to attack stupid Dusty-isms, but this isn't really one of them.My main point was that Uncle Dusty saw fit to mention Dickerson's health as a concern--but not Freel's.

So, does he think Freel is the incumbent in CF?....or is it that Freel's injury concerns are already well-publicized; and thus, not worthy of mentioning.

The real question is: Is he leaning towards a CF who is on the current roster, or is he hinting about somebody on the FA market?

OnBaseMachine
12-09-2008, 12:35 PM
There is nothing wrong in going with Dickerson, just have a plan B. Instead it seems as if Dusty wants someone else in CF and to use Dickerson as plan B.

Agreed.

TRF
12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Dusty also said Patterson was maturing as a player, starting to get on base more and going the other way.

He talks to hear himself talk. Sometimes what he says is even true. blind squirrel/nut

hippie07
12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
I remember Dusty saying the same thing about Jay Bruce last offseason... I don't know what the reasoning is - maybe he's just paranoid - my guess is that its his way of letting old veteran free agent type guys now that he'd like them to call WJ.

Jpup
12-09-2008, 12:43 PM
I've got nothing against Dickerson, but I don't see him ever being the guy he was at the end of the season over a full year. Small sample size killed the cat. ;)

HokieRed
12-09-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm no Dusty fan, but on this one I think he deserves a little slack. With no acquisition and if EE stays at 3rd, he's going into the year with Freel in left, Dickerson in center, and Bruce in right. Is anybody comfortable with that?

dougdirt
12-09-2008, 12:56 PM
I'm no Dusty fan, but on this one I think he deserves a little slack. With no acquisition and if EE stays at 3rd, he's going into the year with Freel in left, Dickerson in center, and Bruce in right. Is anybody comfortable with that?
Not really, but if they bring in a left fielder of decent quality, I am comfortable with quality LF, Dickerson and Freel platoon and Bruce.... at least for my outfield.

REDREAD
12-09-2008, 01:10 PM
I've got nothing against Dickerson, but I don't see him ever being the guy he was at the end of the season over a full year. Small sample size killed the cat. ;)

Yeah, Dickerson might be Jon Nunally Jr.
We are really thin in the OF, it would be prudent to add 2 OF over the winter.

edabbs44
12-09-2008, 01:19 PM
C'mon guys, Dusty does have a point here. Dickerson has had a lot of injuries, so to place too much faith in him at this point is probably not a wise move. I'm the first to attack stupid Dusty-isms, but this isn't really one of them.

Agreed, but I am kind of shocked that he would say something like this publically.

reds44
12-09-2008, 01:33 PM
The way they worded that was a bit misleading. In the original article where they are getting their information from, it's clear that Baker isn't comfortable with Dickerson in CF because of his injury history, and only because of his injury history. You can't really argue with that.

Cyclone792
12-09-2008, 01:35 PM
Uncle Dusty probably favors the older, veteran nieces and nephews.

teh Uncle Dusty's got some wisdom, that's for sure. The amount of foresight he has into certain player's games is astounding. Put simply, the man's a wizard, dude.

RedsManRick
12-09-2008, 01:44 PM
If a guy is talented enough to start, he should start. If you're worried about his ability to hold up health-wise, you find him a good backup or platoon partner. Dickerson looks like he could use a RH platoon partner in any case, so there you go. He and Freel actually compliment each other well in this regard.

But if in your attempt to prevent a significant loss of playing time due to serious injury, you take away a serious chunk his playing time, what's the point? You're basically locking yourself in to the worst-case scenario. Give him rest to keep him fresh, particularly by taking advantage of opportunities where he's at a natural disadvantage. But don't sit him because you're afraid he might break -- use him in a reasonable way until he does.

Spring~Fields
12-09-2008, 02:00 PM
Dusty prefers the known and crappy over the unknown, that's how Patterson got here in the first place. There is nothing wrong in going with Dickerson, just have a plan B. Instead it seems as if Dusty wants someone else in CF and to use Dickerson as plan B. The Reds are unlikely going anywhere, let Dickerson play.

That's right, same type of spin.

That is the same type of spew that Baker was espousing last year about Bruce in spring training, injury/endurance. Now he is spreading his gospel on Dickerson, yet, he had no problem playing a often injured Hairston in CF and SS last year.

osuceltic
12-09-2008, 02:27 PM
I don't think Dusty or Jocketty are entirely sold on Dickerson, and that's understandable. He had a great 100 ABs, but his track record in the minors doesn't suggest he's anywhere near that kind of player. Is he that rare player who outperforms his minor league numbers when he hits the big leagues? You guys may be willing to bet on that, but I don't blame Walt and Dusty for being reluctant to make that leap.

They're not going to be platooning him with Freel, because Freel is on his way to Baltimore. Hairston? He isn't signed. And his track record is worse than Dickerson's.

Even if Dickerson is the CF, are we convinced he can be the team's leadoff hitter? We don't have another one. That's a lot of pressure to put on a guy who was an organizational afterthought until his late-season call-up.

WMR
12-09-2008, 02:37 PM
What's the point of Dusty saying this to the media?

Are we witnessing the beginning stages of his eventual full-blown politicking for Juan Pierre and/or Willy Taveras?

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Not really, but if they bring in a left fielder of decent quality, I am comfortable with quality LF, Dickerson and Freel platoon and Bruce.... at least for my outfield.

Right, unless something is done over the off season Dickerson should be penciled in as a platoon in CF. If he gets banged up or becomes Jon Nunnally then you cut back his playing time. Stubbs may be a possibility before the year ends as well.

Chip R
12-09-2008, 02:44 PM
Right, unless something is done over the off season Dickerson should be penciled in as a platoon in CF. If he gets banged up or becomes Jon Nunnally then you cut back his playing time. Stubbs may be a possibility before the year ends as well.


I don't think that's a bad idea. He'll get the lion's share of the playing time since he's a lefty. That'll keep Freel and/or Hariston fresh. If he hits as well as he did last year and stays healthy, I don't see any reason why Dusty wouldn't play him every day.

Kc61
12-09-2008, 02:50 PM
I don't think Dusty or Jocketty are entirely sold on Dickerson, and that's understandable. He had a great 100 ABs, but his track record in the minors doesn't suggest he's anywhere near that kind of player. Is he that rare player who outperforms his minor league numbers when he hits the big leagues? You guys may be willing to bet on that, but I don't blame Walt and Dusty for being reluctant to make that leap.

They're not going to be platooning him with Freel, because Freel is on his way to Baltimore. Hairston? He isn't signed. And his track record is worse than Dickerson's.

Even if Dickerson is the CF, are we convinced he can be the team's leadoff hitter? We don't have another one. That's a lot of pressure to put on a guy who was an organizational afterthought until his late-season call-up.

Agree.

Perhaps Dusty and Walt are being a bit more subdued in their thinking about Reds minor leaguers than some fans are.

Dickerson is a guy who struggled offensively throughout his minor league career. He fanned one third of his official at bats as a Red last year. He has sometimes been injured, and got injured as a Red in September.

So maybe the Reds aren't confident with Dickerson as the main centerfielder for next year. I can see that.

Will M
12-09-2008, 02:56 PM
the Reds tried really hard to get Coco Crisp. Dusty's recent comments indicate why.

wheels
12-09-2008, 03:14 PM
And the hits just keep coming.

Dusty is priceless.

KronoRed
12-09-2008, 03:25 PM
I'm not comfortable with Dusty as manager, can we get a platoon buy? someone who manages when the games really count.

IslandRed
12-09-2008, 03:26 PM
I don't think Dusty or Jocketty are entirely sold on Dickerson, and that's understandable. He had a great 100 ABs, but his track record in the minors doesn't suggest he's anywhere near that kind of player. Is he that rare player who outperforms his minor league numbers when he hits the big leagues? You guys may be willing to bet on that, but I don't blame Walt and Dusty for being reluctant to make that leap.

I agree with this post wholeheartedly. Dickerson could be a solid CF for us this year, but even without an injury history, he hasn't earned the right to be given a starting job without the team hedging the bet at least a little.


My main point was that Uncle Dusty saw fit to mention Dickerson's health as a concern--but not Freel's.

Based on the other thread's trade rumor, maybe he had an idea that Freel is about to be headed out of town, and is not-so-subtly saying that this doesn't mean the Reds are inking in Dickerson just yet.

Ltlabner
12-09-2008, 03:29 PM
Are we witnessing the beginning stages of his eventual full-blown politicking for Juan Pierre and/or Willy Taveras?

I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt it in the least.

Nothing wrong with covering yourself in the event of injury or rookie flop (ala Hatteburg/Votto), but to be reluctant to play a guy just because he might get hurt makes no sense.

And keep in mind, this is the same The Dusty that run Harriston Jr out there before he was 100% healed (and subsequently re-injured himself). Not real consistant regarding protecting injured/potentially injured players.

While I agree we shouldn't hand it over to Dickerson, me thinks The Dusty is up to his usual rant re: young players.

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2008, 03:32 PM
What's the point of Dusty saying this to the media?

Are we witnessing the beginning stages of his eventual full-blown politicking for Juan Pierre and/or Willy Taveras?

Taveras maybe, Pierre not likely in the budget.

OnBaseMachine
12-09-2008, 03:36 PM
Scary stuff from Fay's column today:

The Reds are rumored to be interested in Colorado center fielder Willy Taveras.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081209/SPT04/812090341/1071

TRF
12-09-2008, 04:14 PM
I don't think Dusty or Jocketty are entirely sold on Dickerson, and that's understandable. He had a great 100 ABs, but his track record in the minors doesn't suggest he's anywhere near that kind of player. Is he that rare player who outperforms his minor league numbers when he hits the big leagues? You guys may be willing to bet on that, but I don't blame Walt and Dusty for being reluctant to make that leap.

They're not going to be platooning him with Freel, because Freel is on his way to Baltimore. Hairston? He isn't signed. And his track record is worse than Dickerson's.

Even if Dickerson is the CF, are we convinced he can be the team's leadoff hitter? We don't have another one. That's a lot of pressure to put on a guy who was an organizational afterthought until his late-season call-up.

His track record in the minors doesn't suggest a 1.000+ OPS but it does suggest he can OPS north of .750 AND play an excellent CF. He has more success in the minor leagues than the guy who shall not be named by me that rocketed through three levels without much merit.

That's good enough for me though. He should be the starting CF if he's fully recovered from his injury. If he isn't, well, the Reds have a serious problem, especially if Freel is dealt or not fully healthy himself.

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 04:22 PM
I don't think anyone is banking on Dickerson putting up numbers like he did last year but there's every reason to give him a chance. Such turnarounds are not unheard of. We saw one last year in St Louis, Ryan Ludwick. He's signed, he's cheap, why not give him the chance?

membengal
12-09-2008, 04:27 PM
Membengal: Still not comfortable with Baker's evaluation of players

Sea Ray
12-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah, we don't want Dusty doing the GM thing. He's definitely one manager that needs to be paired with a really good GM.

Raisor
12-09-2008, 05:04 PM
Scary stuff from Fay's column today:

The Reds are rumored to be interested in Colorado center fielder Willy Taveras.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081209/SPT04/812090341/1071

Grrrrrrrr

flyer85
12-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Scary stuff from Fay's column today:

The Reds are rumored to be interested in Colorado center fielder Willy Taveras.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081209/SPT04/812090341/1071it's going to be Juan Pierre

Ltlabner
12-09-2008, 05:24 PM
it's going to be Juan Pierre

People really must stop bringing this up. It's just not cool in any way.

Raisor
12-09-2008, 05:25 PM
it's going to be Juan Pierre

A Pierre, Tavaras, Patterson OF is still a possibility.

GAC
12-09-2008, 05:53 PM
C'mon guys, Dusty does have a point here. Dickerson has had a lot of injuries, so to place too much faith in him at this point is probably not a wise move. I'm the first to attack stupid Dusty-isms, but this isn't really one of them.

Exactly. When you look at who is on the roster right now as far as OFers, and the lack of depth, I'd be a little worried too.

The trade of Freel, which I'm glad to see he's gone, just maybe gave Hairston's agent some bargaining power.

Some one has to replace Freel on the DL. :p:

Ron Madden
12-11-2008, 04:16 AM
Scary stuff from Fay's column today:

The Reds are rumored to be interested in Colorado center fielder Willy Taveras.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081209/SPT04/812090341/1071


I hope and pray Willy Taveras never wears a Reds uniform.

The heck with Dusty Baker too.

:yikes:

Krusty
12-11-2008, 04:26 AM
If that revived trade talks of Tim Redding for Willy Taveras happens today between the Nats and Rockies, that could make Lastings Milledge available in a deal for pitching.

So if I'm Uncle Walt, do I call Leatherpants and talk to Satan's son about acquiring Milledge?

mth123
12-11-2008, 06:33 AM
If that revived trade talks of Tim Redding for Willy Taveras happens today between the Nats and Rockies, that could make Lastings Milledge available in a deal for pitching.

So if I'm Uncle Walt, do I call Leatherpants and talk to Satan's son about acquiring Milledge?

Yes