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Krusty
12-10-2008, 08:28 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/12/10/cashman_leaves_winter_meetings_to_see_cc/

http://www.nypost.com/

blumj
12-10-2008, 09:18 AM
I'll still be surprised if they don't drop $180-200M on Teixeira next.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-10-2008, 09:21 AM
LOL. What a joke.

edabbs44
12-10-2008, 09:46 AM
I can't wait until they miss the playoffs again with Sabathia.

hebroncougar
12-10-2008, 09:55 AM
I can't wait until they miss the playoffs again with Sabathia.

I'm not sure they'll miss the playoffs (I don't think the Rays can repeat their magical season), but it will be interesting, giving Sabathia's miserable playoff performances, if he gets rocked next October to see the reaction. I think this will be a good signing for the Yanks, as they have the payroll to absorb a hit like this, and Sabathia is a traditional workhorse in every sense. Now if the Yanks go out and sign Burnett to a 4 or 5 year deal, that's a totally different story.

blumj
12-10-2008, 09:56 AM
7 years/$160M ?

Forget what I said about $180-200M for Tex next, make it $200-220M.

Tony Cloninger
12-10-2008, 10:04 AM
CC wanted to hit and pitch on the WC....but beacuse of union pressure to sign the biggest contract....he goes somewhere where he does not want to be.
Is Stalin running the union? How can you be told to go somewhere that you do not want to go? I believe CC would have signed with the Dodgers or Giants if they had offered him just 5 years and 100 million.

Another reason to hate the Yankees....who have only once in the last 30 years ...been able to build a team from their own farm system.
This is the only way they can win. I wish them nothing but bad luck next year....they deserve nothing less.

Krusty
12-10-2008, 10:09 AM
Alot mileage on that arm. I see a decline in performance as a Yankee.

The Yankees sign Teixeria to a 200 million deal will result the league locking down after the next collective bargaining agreement expires and shut down the game in order to get a salary cap.

BoydsOfSummer
12-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Contracting the Yankees would be better for baseball than say, the Marlins. God I hate them.

Krusty
12-10-2008, 10:14 AM
Contracting the Yankees would be better for baseball than say, the Marlins. God I hate them.

With the revenue they will be generating from the New Yankee Stadium, a 300 million dollar payroll isn't out of the question.

flyer85
12-10-2008, 10:19 AM
was there ever a doubt

Unassisted
12-10-2008, 10:35 AM
They're still in the mix on Sheets (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/12/09/meeting-with-sheets-impressed-girardi/) and Burnett (http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/agent-says-yankees-are-serious-about-aj-burnett/), too.

BRM
12-10-2008, 10:35 AM
was there ever a doubt

no

Chip R
12-10-2008, 10:37 AM
CC wanted to hit and pitch on the WC....but beacuse of union pressure to sign the biggest contract....he goes somewhere where he does not want to be.
Is Stalin running the union? How can you be told to go somewhere that you do not want to go? I believe CC would have signed with the Dodgers or Giants if they had offered him just 5 years and 100 million.

Another reason to hate the Yankees....who have only once in the last 30 years ...been able to build a team from their own farm system.
This is the only way they can win. I wish them nothing but bad luck next year....they deserve nothing less.


Come on, Tony, tell us how you really feel. No holding back.

Tony Cloninger
12-10-2008, 10:39 AM
My advice to myself is to start drinking heavily. 2009 will be a year of non stop Yankee propaganda.

flyer85
12-10-2008, 10:58 AM
there is a chance the Yanks could sign Sabathia, Lowe and Burnett.

blumj
12-10-2008, 11:07 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/12/10/sabathia.yanks/index.html?eref=T1


The Yankees' new rotation is starting to take shape as they are also in serious negotiations with free agent Derek Lowe. An agreement with Lowe seems likely to be finalized within the coming days, as well. The sides were discussing a contract for four years and about $66 million late Tuesday.

The Yankees, though, are intent on adding three starters and are also talking with A.J. Burnett and Ben Sheets. They are hopeful of adding one of those two pitchers to round out the expected rotation.

Strikes Out Looking
12-10-2008, 11:08 AM
Isn't this the same Yankees that just told the city of NY they needed $450 million from the city to finish their stadium?

While I have nothing against CC Sabathia, I hope he has the same success that Carl Pavano had in the big Apple.

RedEye
12-10-2008, 11:20 AM
I can't believe they are aiming to sign Sabathia, Lowe and Burnett/Sheets. Economic downturn doesn't seem to be affecting them too much, does it?

Edit: Maybe I should rephrase this. I most definitely can believe they are aiming to do this... but I just think its unfair. :-)

paulrichjr
12-10-2008, 11:31 AM
I can't believe they are aiming to sign Sabathia, Lowe and Burnett/Sheets. Economic downturn doesn't seem to be affecting them too much, does it?

Look at the payroll that came off of the books this year.

Mussina - 11 million
Pettitte - 16 million
Giambi - $23 million
Abreu - $16 million
Pavano - $11 million
Total $77 million

The Reds entire payroll is right here (from last year)...Signing CC, Lowe, and Burnett should be easy and leave money left over.

WMR
12-10-2008, 11:40 AM
"LEVEL PLAYING FIELD"

:lol:

Just laughable.

buckeyenut
12-10-2008, 11:48 AM
Look at the payroll that came off of the books this year.

Mussina - 11 million
Pettitte - 16 million
Giambi - $23 million
Abreu - $16 million
Pavano - $11 million
Total $77 million

The Reds entire payroll is right here (from last year)...Signing CC, Lowe, and Burnett should be easy and leave money left over.
I don't think this can be overstated. They lost $38M in their rotation. They can afford to replace it. If you just skip replacing Abreau, you can sign CC, Lowe, Burnett and Teix and probably stay even or go down. Going into a new stadium, they have the money. Now, should they sign the top end guys or spread it around a little more? Great question. But you have to love the idea of a rotation of CC, Burnett, Lowe, Wang, Joba. Then you can trade Hughes for a decent OF.

M2
12-10-2008, 12:19 PM
Look at the payroll that came off of the books this year.

Mussina - 11 million
Pettitte - 16 million
Giambi - $23 million
Abreu - $16 million
Pavano - $11 million
Total $77 million

The Reds entire payroll is right here (from last year)...Signing CC, Lowe, and Burnett should be easy and leave money left over.

Exactly. Plus, they've got a new ballpark opening this season.

I also don't get Yankee hating. Yeah, the club is a leviathan. So what? New York is a leviathan. It's baseball teams should follow suit. Then again, I thought Jack was the bad guy in Jack and the Beanstalk too.

fearofpopvol1
12-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Exactly. Plus, they've got a new ballpark opening this season.

I also don't get Yankee hating. Yeah, the club is a leviathan. So what? New York is a leviathan. It's baseball teams should follow suit. Then again, I thought Jack was the bad guy in Jack and the Beanstalk too.

It's because they take the easy way out. They try to "buy" their team instead of develop them and they have an unfair advantage with the amount of revenue. It's a luxury that very few teams have, at least to the degree that the Yankees do.

But, you are right. New York is a levithan and this shouldn't come as a surprise.

M2
12-10-2008, 01:08 PM
It's because they take the easy way out. They try to "buy" their team instead of develop them and they have an unfair advantage with the amount of revenue. It's a luxury that very few teams have, at least to the degree that the Yankees do.

But, you are right. New York is a levithan and this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Except they usually fall short when they try to buy their way out. It was Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mariano and Pettitte that put them in position for that 1996-2000 run. And it was a deep feeder system that allowed them to acquire O'Neill, Tino, Knoblauch and Cone.

I say this pretty much every season, but smile when you see the Yankees throwing their cash at free agents. It probably means they aren't going to win the World Series.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2008, 01:13 PM
Except they usually fall short when they try to buy their way out. It was Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mariano and Pettitte that put them in position for that 1996-2000 run. And it was a deep feeder system that allowed them to acquire O'Neill, Tino, Knoblauch and Cone.

I say this pretty much every season, but smile when you see the Yankees throwing their cash at free agents. It probably means they aren't going to win the World Series.

Excellent point.

The core of the great Yankee teams in the late-90s were all either home grown players or acquired via trade. They've spent like drunken sailors over the last decade, but in the end it hasn't amounted to anything more than a load of disappointment and two Boston World Championships.

It's easy to spend your way to a few extra Wins, but it's almost impossible to spend your way to a championship.

Sea Ray
12-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Another reason to hate the Yankees....who have only once in the last 30 years ...been able to build a team from their own farm system.
This is the only way they can win. I wish them nothing but bad luck next year....they deserve nothing less.


Don't hate the Yankees. Hate the system. This is the system MLB operates under. This time of year you see it up close and personal. This is the time of year that the big boys get to pick the pockets of the little guys. What teams have you heard bandied about this week re: FAs? It's been the Mets, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers and Angels. The Milwaukees and Cincinnatis have to piece over the leftovers. It's not a level playing field and it's the biggest negative to game of baseball today.

fearofpopvol1
12-10-2008, 01:26 PM
Except they usually fall short when they try to buy their way out. It was Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mariano and Pettitte that put them in position for that 1996-2000 run. And it was a deep feeder system that allowed them to acquire O'Neill, Tino, Knoblauch and Cone.

I say this pretty much every season, but smile when you see the Yankees throwing their cash at free agents. It probably means they aren't going to win the World Series.

I never said they didn't fall short when they take that route, but rather, that's why people hate on them. Most fans of other teams don't like the fact that they have ridiculous financial resources that simply are not something that can be matched by their favorite teams.

Further, maybe that 1 big free agent that would help put anotehr team over the top isn't available because they can't compete with the Yankees there and thus, have to settle for a lesser player.

blumj
12-10-2008, 03:04 PM
They gave him an opt-out after the first 3 seasons. If he does really well and/or the market goes up, he can either leave or hit them up for more money, and if he doesn't do so well or gets hurt, they're stuck with 7 years/$160M.

Jpup
12-10-2008, 03:25 PM
They are playing by the rules. Until they change the rules, this is the way it will be. Boston does the exact same thing and I don't blame them.

REDREAD
12-10-2008, 03:36 PM
It must be nice to say "We need a new #3 starter, I think Sheets is still available" :rolleyes: :lol:

Yes, the Yanks are playing by the rules. I'm just glad we aren't in the same division as they are.

BoydsOfSummer
12-10-2008, 03:46 PM
Hell, REDREAD, we can't even win the freakin' NL Central.

Ltlabner
12-10-2008, 05:03 PM
I also don't get Yankee hating. Yeah, the club is a leviathan. So what? New York is a leviathan. It's baseball teams should follow suit.

Couldn't agree more. And it's not like they've won every last World Series for the past 20 years using their approach.



It's because they take the easy way out. They try to "buy" their team instead of develop them and they have an unfair advantage with the amount of revenue.

So if you had massive amounts of revenue coming in because of (1) history of the baseball team (2) huge size of the MSA and (3) smart business dealings you'd gleefully give it to all the other teams and go about developing your farm system? Please.

The Yanks have a built in advantage because of the size of the city and the brand that is the Yankees. They'd be dumb not to use it.



Don't hate the Yankees. Hate the system. This is the system MLB operates under. This time of year you see it up close and personal. This is the time of year that the big boys get to pick the pockets of the little guys.

Yet their farm system is generally regarded as weak meaning they have to buy all/most of their tallent. It's recoginized that building a team through mostly free agents is very expenesive. It just so happens they make oodles of money. It's not suprising that their revenue stream shaped the team building philosphy of the recient past.

What gets totally overlooked is that the Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Tampa Bay's of the world get the luxury of developing tallent that (if all goes to plan) provides MLB performance at dirt cheap prices. That's not to say the Yanks don't develop their own tallent and use young/cheap tallent where they can, they just aren't forced into like a smaller team would be.

Let the Yankees of the world buy their teams. That means they are buying older, more injury prone and more likely to decline players at inflated prices. Sometimes it works, but how often have we seen it fail?

It's a far better system than one where the "wealth is spread around" and you still end up with miserable teams.

oregonred
12-10-2008, 05:26 PM
Antitrust rules keep a 3rd and 4th team out of the NYC/Connecticut markets which is the only real solution.

Also, the $700B of taxpayer provided TARP money will keep the luxury suite leases and the Wall Street Bonuses in tact to fund the new Mets/Yankees FA spending spree for the next decade.

In the real world, the self-inflicted collapse of the financial industry and Wall Street I-Banks should be killing the Yanks/Mets revenue streams. How's the Citibank Park coming anyways?

Falls City Beer
12-10-2008, 05:29 PM
Antitrust rules keep a 3rd and 4th team out of the NYC/Connecticut markets which is the only real solution.

Also, the $700B of taxpayer provided TARP money will keep the luxury suite leases and the Wall Street Bonuses in tact to fund the new Mets/Yankees FA spending spree for the next decade.

In the real world, the self-inflicted collapse of the financial industry and Wall Street I-Banks should be killing the Yanks/Mets revenue streams. How's the Citibank Park coming anyways?

Too true.

Rojo
12-10-2008, 05:38 PM
Antitrust rules keep a 3rd and 4th team out of the NYC/Connecticut markets which is the only real solution.

Also, the $700B of taxpayer provided TARP money will keep the luxury suite leases and the Wall Street Bonuses in tact to fund the new Mets/Yankees FA spending spree for the next decade.

In the real world, the self-inflicted collapse of the financial industry and Wall Street I-Banks should be killing the Yanks/Mets revenue streams. How's the Citibank Park coming anyways?


Bingo! The Yanks are Standard Oil.

The Tigers, OTOH, will have to clear their free agents with Congress.

KoryMac5
12-10-2008, 05:42 PM
Anytime you outbid yourself it is a terrible contract. The only other offer on the table that CC had was from the Brew Crew and it was for much less dollars than what CC got from the Yankees. The Yankees missed out on Santanna last season and had to get CC to make up for it thus they ended up outbidding themselves.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-10-2008, 06:05 PM
Antitrust rules keep a 3rd and 4th team out of the NYC/Connecticut markets which is the only real solution.

Also, the $700B of taxpayer provided TARP money will keep the luxury suite leases and the Wall Street Bonuses in tact to fund the new Mets/Yankees FA spending spree for the next decade.

In the real world, the self-inflicted collapse of the financial industry and Wall Street I-Banks should be killing the Yanks/Mets revenue streams. How's the Citibank Park coming anyways?

And that's why people hate the Yankees.

And hate might be a strong word, but speaking for me, I sure as hell don't want to see them succeed.

I think it's great for baseball if the Mets and Yankees are sitting at home EVERY October.

NJReds
12-10-2008, 06:07 PM
And that's why people hate the Yankees.

And hate might be a strong word, but speaking for me, I sure as hell don't want to see them succeed.

I think it's great for baseball if the Mets and Yankees are sitting at home EVERY October.

and Red Sox, Dodgers and Angels.

Except it's horrible for the networks paying big bucks for the TV rights.

NJReds
12-10-2008, 06:12 PM
Antitrust rules keep a 3rd and 4th team out of the NYC/Connecticut markets which is the only real solution.


Where would you put another team. The fanbase in NY Metro Area is split between the Mets and Yankees. Central and Southern NJ leans to the Phillies and Connecticut leans to the Red Sox.

I guess you could try a team out on Long Island, but I don't think it would fly. The Islanders barely draw as it is.

There are 9 major pro teams in the NY/NJ area right now (Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Giants and Jets) ... not to mention a whole bunch of minor league teams. I don't see room for any more MLB franchises in this area.

MrCinatit
12-10-2008, 06:15 PM
"Fearless, ill-informed, off the wall prediction time":
4
31
May 17, 2009
July 2, 2009

Number of years Sabathia stays with the Yankees before he gets traded.
Number of wins Sabathia will have in those years, combined.
The date Yankee fans will first boo Sabathia.
The date the Yankees first place Sabathia on the DL. The first of many times.

WMR
12-10-2008, 06:16 PM
NJReds: I think the answer is New Jersey. They may lean to the Phillies, but that is the market in that area that would be easiest for a new franchise to move in and find a fanbase quickly.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2008, 06:18 PM
Where would you put another team. The fanbase in NY Metro Area is split between the Mets and Yankees. Central and Southern NJ leans to the Phillies and Connecticut leans to the Red Sox.

Everyone in DC was an Orioles fan when I lived there. Amazing how having a team of your own changes things.

M2
12-10-2008, 06:27 PM
Where would you put another team. The fanbase in NY Metro Area is split between the Mets and Yankees. Central and Southern NJ leans to the Phillies and Connecticut leans to the Red Sox.

I went to HS in western CT (early 1980s) and didn't know a single Sox fan. Most everybody I knew was a Mets fan. When I go back now all I see is Yankees bumper stickers. Most of CT is in the extended NYC television market and people get MSG and YES in their cable packages far more often than NESN. Maybe east of Hartford and New Haven you run into Sox territory, but most of the population lives center and west in CT.

Rojo
12-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Yes, the nutmeg state, cut into both the Yanks and Redsox fanbase.

Rojo
12-10-2008, 08:36 PM
There are 9 major pro teams in the NY/NJ area right now (Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Nets, Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Giants and Jets) ... not to mention a whole bunch of minor league teams. I don't see room for any more MLB franchises in this area.

There were three teams there once, when it was a lot smaller.

Reds Fanatic
12-10-2008, 09:32 PM
According to ESPN the Yankees have now offered Burnett a guaranteed 5 year deal.

NJReds
12-10-2008, 09:43 PM
There were three teams there once, when it was a lot smaller.

And two moved out. Falling attendence was part of the problem.

NJReds
12-10-2008, 09:46 PM
NJReds: I think the answer is New Jersey. They may lean to the Phillies, but that is the market in that area that would be easiest for a new franchise to move in and find a fanbase quickly.

Possibly. NJ doesn't have a history of supporting its teams very well.

The Devils won a bunch of Stanley Cups, but have trouble selling tickets. The Nets don't draw ... even with Kidd, Carter and Jefferson.

The NFL does well, but it does well pretty much everywhere.

savafan
12-10-2008, 10:36 PM
According to ESPN the Yankees have now offered Burnett a guaranteed 5 year deal.

Smart for a guy who's had a career of injury problems.

If I'm Sabathia I would have wanted to remain in the National League.

As a Reds' fan, I sure am glad he's no longer pitching in the NL Central.

Tom Servo
12-10-2008, 10:41 PM
Possibly. NJ doesn't have a history of supporting its teams very well.

The Devils won a bunch of Stanley Cups, but have trouble selling tickets. The Nets don't draw ... even with Kidd, Carter and Jefferson.

The NFL does well, but it does well pretty much everywhere.
Yeah having lived in New Jersey for most of my life I agree that we really don't support teams. And as much as I hoped for the Marlins or any major league team to move there when I lived there, everyone already has an allegiance be it Yankees or Mets and I doubt a major league team would draw in NJ.

Rojo
12-11-2008, 12:14 AM
And two moved out.

After 80-something years.

Mario-Rijo
12-11-2008, 09:23 AM
According to ESPN the Yankees have now offered Burnett a guaranteed 5 year deal.

5 years 80 million. Kurkjian just said on Mike & Mike that they may also sign Lowe even if they get Burnett. And that they are possibly sending Melky to the Brewers for Cameron, probably to keep C.C. company.

NJReds
12-11-2008, 09:57 AM
Yeah having lived in New Jersey for most of my life I agree that we really don't support teams. And as much as I hoped for the Marlins or any major league team to move there when I lived there, everyone already has an allegiance be it Yankees or Mets and I doubt a major league team would draw in NJ.

There was a moment or two where it was discussed that the Expos might move to Northern NJ. It was quickly dismissed.

NJReds
12-11-2008, 10:00 AM
After 80-something years.

... and declining attendance as people moved out of the city into the suburbs.

I think it would be extremely difficult for a third team to gain traction in NYC.

blumj
12-11-2008, 11:07 AM
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/31261-yankees-back-in-teixeira-sweepstakes


The Yankees, who are pressing for pitching and have money to burn, have re-entered the Teixeira Sweepstakes, SI.com has learned.

bucksfan2
12-11-2008, 11:16 AM
The Yankees and Mets just asked New York for more public funding for their stadium. Then they go out and hand out the richest contract ever for a pitcher, are going after Lowe and Burnett, and entered the Teixeira sweekstakes. Sounds to me like a franchise in need of money.

This current Yankee plan reminds me of the Yanks from 2002-2008. They are spending big on free agents while depleting their farm system. There is never a perfect free agent but everyone the Yanks are after have some questions. CC has weight and fatigue in the playoff issues. Burnett has had injury problems. Lowe has age issues. Tex may be the safest FA on the market but his agent is Boras.

Rojo
12-11-2008, 02:49 PM
... and declining attendance as people moved out of the city into the suburbs.

I think it would be extremely difficult for a third team to gain traction in NYC.


Yes it would. They'd be the Nationals for a few years. But they probably won't do any worse than that Nats, Royals, Pirates, etc.....

People moved out in the 50's but the population of NYC has increased by over 100,000 since 1960. And the fact that Los Angeles and San Francisco had no team was an awful big inducement.

NJReds
12-11-2008, 02:57 PM
Yes it would. They'd be the Nationals for a few years. But they probably won't do any worse than that Nats, Royals, Pirates, etc.....

People moved out in the 50's but the population of NYC has increased by over 100,000 since 1960. And the fact that Los Angeles and San Francisco had no team was an awful big inducement.

If the Dodgers or Giants moved back, that'd be a big deal. Those teams still have some following in the city.

An expansion team or a team like the Marlins? Very little chance of success unless it was owned by someone like Mark Cuban who just spent up a storm like the two teams now.

But there are issues with infrastructure, space for a stadium, etc.

Long Island or Westchester County or Connecticut? It might be possible under the right circumstances.

M2
12-11-2008, 03:23 PM
I suspect a team in Brooklyn would do pretty well.

Obviously Manhattan would be the holy grail, but getting the land would be difficult to impossible.

The Yankees and Mets probably wouldn't let it happen no matter how feasible the rest of the plan was, but if you had a franchise that was looking to move, it would be hard to find a more viable location than NYC.

Then again, what I really want to see is an NL team in Boston.

Rojo
12-11-2008, 05:39 PM
Then again, what I really want to see is an NL team in Boston.

CT is two birds with one stone. The Yanks-Sox rivalry is the engine of salary growth, throw a monkey wrench into it.