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redsfan4445
12-11-2008, 01:13 PM
per Rosenthal

12:01 p.m. — Reds close to signing Rhodes
The Reds have reached a preliminary agreement with free-agent left-hander Arthur Rhodes to a two-year, $4 million contract. The deal is pending a physical, which the 39-year-old Rhodes will take Friday.

Rhodes appeared in 61 games last season — 36 for the Mariners, 25 for the Marlins — and had a combined record of 4-1 with a 2.04 ERA.

flyer85
12-11-2008, 01:15 PM
Hope this works better than Wayne's experiments with old left handers.

Hooligan
12-11-2008, 01:16 PM
I'll take his '07 numbers in '08.

TRF
12-11-2008, 01:16 PM
not a fan of this move while Reyes was still available.

corkedbat
12-11-2008, 01:18 PM
Hope this works better than Wayne's experiments with old left handers.


Well, you knew that one of the four were destined for the Reds. I liked the 2.04 ERA, but you wonder if he has two good years in him. Another reason I wish Weathers hadn't accepted arbitration. Maybe he'll throw a hip getting on the exam table for his physical and they'll move on to Reyes.

edabbs44
12-11-2008, 01:20 PM
Not a huge fan. Feels Rheally similar to another recent acquisition.

Sabo Fan
12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
not a fan of this move while Reyes was still available.

I heard Reyes wanted about 12 million over three years and that strikes me as too high for this club. Rhodes isn't my first choice but I guess I'm OK with it since the money is fairly reasonable.

Cyclone792
12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
He's still striking out a nice chunk of guys and has been able to avoid the long ball fairly well. If he can keep that up, he'll be ok, though the Reds need to make a point to limit how often he faces righty hitters. There's also a tendency for lots of walks, and that could bite the Reds' in the rear on a few occasions.

bucksfan2
12-11-2008, 01:23 PM
Was Rhodes a former closer at one point in his career?

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 01:23 PM
Two years? I was hoping it was only one year. Rhodes is still a solid pitcher but I'd rather have Reyes for two or three years.

flyer85
12-11-2008, 01:25 PM
Was Rhodes a former closer at one point in his career?not really. He generally has been know for throwing hard, having a nasty slider and not wanting to pitch on consecutive days because he has had a lot health issues in his career.

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Rhodes is dominant vs lefties. Last year he held lefties to a .157/.247/.200 - .447 OPS in 70 atbats. For his career he's held lefties to a .614 OPS against. I just wish this was a one year deal...

RedLegSuperStar
12-11-2008, 01:27 PM
2 years 4MM.. I'm ok with a vet left hander making 2MM per.

bucksfan2
12-11-2008, 01:29 PM
not really. He generally has been know for throwing hard, having a nasty slider and not wanting to pitch on consecutive days because he has had a lot health issues in his career.

Yea I looked at it and he has some saves but never above a couple in his career. $2M/ year for 2 years isn't bad. His age is a little worrisome but some relievers have pitches pretty effectively late into their career. If he is a LOGGY then he should be able to remain effective throughout his two years. If Dusty asks more out of him then I see his effectiveness disappearing.

corkedbat
12-11-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm gonna trust Uncle Walt. It does fill a need

westofyou
12-11-2008, 01:35 PM
He's got more stuff than the LH's that WK went after, and like many relievers he ebbs and flows, he does neutralize LH power fairly well (.325) that plays well in the GAB. He did miss all of 2007 and after a year of stretching out after the TJ surgery the Reds probably like what they have seen


ARTHUR RHODES

GIVEN NAME: Arthur Lee Rhodes Jr.
BORN: 10/24/1969 Waco, Texas
BAT: L THROW: L HEIGHT: 6'2" WEIGHT: 190 MLB DEBUT: 8/21/1991

YEAR TEAM AGE W L PCT G GS CG SV GF IP H R ER BB SO ERA RSAA
1991 Orioles 21 0 3 .000 8 8 0 0 0 36 47 35 32 23 23 8.00 -16
1992 Orioles 22 7 5 .583 15 15 2 0 0 94.1 87 39 38 38 77 3.63 3
1993 Orioles 23 5 6 .455 17 17 0 0 0 85.2 91 62 62 49 49 6.51 -18
1994 Orioles 24 3 5 .375 10 10 3 0 0 52.2 51 34 34 30 47 5.81 -4
1995 Orioles 25 2 5 .286 19 9 0 0 3 75.1 68 53 52 48 77 6.21 -12
1996 Orioles 26 9 1 .900 28 2 0 1 5 53 48 28 24 23 62 4.08 4
1997 Orioles 27 10 3 .769 53 0 0 1 6 95.1 75 32 32 26 102 3.02 16
1998 Orioles 28 4 4 .500 45 0 0 4 10 77 65 30 30 34 83 3.51 7
1999 Orioles 29 3 4 .429 43 0 0 3 11 53 43 37 32 45 59 5.43 -4
2000 Mariners 30 5 8 .385 72 0 0 0 9 69.1 51 34 33 29 77 4.28 2
2001 Mariners 31 8 0 1.000 71 0 0 3 16 68 46 14 13 12 83 1.72 18
2002 Mariners 32 10 4 .714 66 0 0 2 9 69.2 45 18 18 13 81 2.33 14
2003 Mariners 33 3 3 .500 67 0 0 3 14 54 53 25 25 18 48 4.17 1
2004 A's 34 3 3 .500 37 0 0 9 25 38.2 46 23 22 21 34 5.12 -2
2005 Indians 35 3 1 .750 47 0 0 0 8 43.1 33 13 10 12 43 2.08 10
2006 Phillies 36 0 5 .000 55 0 0 4 10 45.2 47 27 27 30 48 5.32 -3
2007 Mariners 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2008 Mariners 38 2 1 .667 36 0 0 1 4 22 17 8 7 13 26 2.86 3
Marlins 38 2 0 1.000 25 0 0 1 2 13.1 11 1 1 3 14 0.68 5
TOTALS 4 1 .800 61 0 0 2 6 35.1 28 9 8 16 40 2.04 8
TOTALS 79 61 .564 714 61 5 32 132 1046.1 924 513 492 467 1033 4.23 24
LG AVERAGE 59 59 .499 6 34 1046.1 1085 574 527 405 717 4.54 0

YEAR TEAM HR H/9 BR/9 SO/9 BB/9 SO/BB SHO WP IBB HBP BFP BK NW NL
1991 Orioles 4 11.75 17.50 5.75 5.75 1.00 0 2 0 0 174 0 1 2
1992 Orioles 6 8.30 12.02 7.35 3.63 2.03 1 2 2 1 394 1 6 6
1993 Orioles 16 9.56 14.81 5.15 5.15 1.00 0 2 1 1 387 0 4 7
1994 Orioles 8 8.72 14.18 8.03 5.13 1.57 2 3 1 2 238 0 4 4
1995 Orioles 13 8.12 13.86 9.20 5.73 1.60 0 3 1 0 336 1 3 4
1996 Orioles 6 8.15 12.06 10.53 3.91 2.70 0 0 3 0 224 0 6 4
1997 Orioles 9 7.08 9.91 9.63 2.45 3.92 0 2 5 4 378 0 9 4
1998 Orioles 8 7.60 11.69 9.70 3.97 2.44 0 1 2 1 321 1 5 3
1999 Orioles 9 7.30 14.94 10.02 7.64 1.31 0 4 6 0 244 0 3 4
2000 Mariners 6 6.62 10.38 10.00 3.76 2.66 0 4 3 0 281 0 7 6
2001 Mariners 5 6.09 7.81 10.99 1.59 6.92 0 3 0 1 258 0 7 1
2002 Mariners 4 5.81 7.49 10.46 1.68 6.23 0 2 1 0 257 0 10 4
2003 Mariners 4 8.83 12.00 8.00 3.00 2.67 0 2 2 1 228 0 3 3
2004 A's 9 10.71 15.59 7.91 4.89 1.62 0 2 4 0 182 0 3 3
2005 Indians 2 6.85 9.55 8.93 2.49 3.58 0 0 2 1 175 0 3 1
2006 Phillies 2 9.26 15.57 9.46 5.91 1.60 0 7 7 2 214 0 2 3
2007 Mariners 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2008 Mariners 0 6.95 12.27 10.64 5.32 2.00 0 1 2 0 92 0 2 1
Marlins 0 7.43 9.45 9.45 2.03 4.67 0 0 2 0 54 0 2 0
TOTALS 0 7.13 11.21 10.19 4.08 2.50 0 1 4 0 146 0 4 1
TOTALS 111 7.95 12.09 8.89 4.02 2.21 3 40 44 14 4437 3 80 60
LG AVERAGE 124 9.33 13.14 6.17 3.48 1.77 2 39 29 38 4553 4

jesusfan
12-11-2008, 01:36 PM
Very happy with 2 years-4 Million... Good deal!

WMR
12-11-2008, 01:43 PM
He may be an old guy... but at least he's an old guy with some actual STUFF.

SMcGavin
12-11-2008, 01:44 PM
Pretty good if he's healthy. He is 39 years old though, so it's a risk.

By the way look at the bullpen now.

Locks:
Cordero
Burton
Bray
Weathers
Lincoln
Rhodes

The leaves just one mop-up spot for Owings/Ramirez, Masset, Roenicke, Herrera, Fisher. All those guys except Weathers are guaranteed contracts for 2010 too. I would not at all be suprised if Roenicke is moved this offseason.

RANDY IN INDY
12-11-2008, 01:45 PM
Agree. If he's healthy, I like his stuff.

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 01:47 PM
Pretty good if he's healthy. He is 39 years old though, so it's a risk.

By the way look at the bullpen now.

Locks:
Cordero
Burton
Bray
Weathers
Lincoln
Rhodes

The leaves just one mop-up spot for Owings/Ramirez, Masset, Roenicke, Herrera, Fisher. All those guys except Weathers are guaranteed contracts for 2010 too. I would not at all be suprised if Roenicke is moved this offseason.

I'd love to see Weathers cut in spring training but that's not going to happen. I was hoping one of Roenicke/Fisher would take Weathers spot with Ramon Ramirez getting the long reliever role.

BRM
12-11-2008, 01:47 PM
I'd love to see Weathers cut in spring training but that's not going to happen. I was hoping one of Roenicke/Fisher would take Weathers spot with Ramon Ramirez getting the long reliever role.

Have you received your David Weathers Fathead yet?

Kc61
12-11-2008, 01:50 PM
Rhodes is dominant vs lefties. Last year he held lefties to a .157/.247/.200 - .447 OPS in 70 atbats. For his career he's held lefties to a .614 OPS against. I just wish this was a one year deal...


Agree. Excellent pickup. Issue is whether he will stay healthy for two more years.

Much happier than Rhodes v. the other alternatives. Frankly, I like him better for the Reds than an Affeldt contract, which costs more.

Rhodes dominates lefty hitters. That's the dimension they add with him.

Walt is doing good.

WMR
12-11-2008, 01:51 PM
Have you received your David Weathers Fathead yet?

It's taking Boss quite a while to process his name change from "OBM" to "Stormy is teh best!!1111!!11"

RedEye
12-11-2008, 01:51 PM
I sort of feel the same about all three transactions so far (Lincoln, Hernandez, Rhodes). They aren't sexy, but they undeniably fill holes in the roster, and they seem to do so in a relatively fiscally responsible way. These are not, however, the moves that will determine this off-season. Those are still to come, I have a feeling.

Kc61
12-11-2008, 01:53 PM
I'd love to see Weathers cut in spring training but that's not going to happen. I was hoping one of Roenicke/Fisher would take Weathers spot with Ramon Ramirez getting the long reliever role.

Weathers is still a better alternative, if you're looking for 2009 success. If your goal is to bring along younger pitchers, then obviously Roenicke/Fisher makes more sense.

Reds have good depth in righty relievers. Burton, Cordero, Weathers, Lincoln are locks. Ramirez is knocking on the door. Massett is possible for long relief. Roenicke and Fisher could begin at AAA but with a fast start will fill the inevitable openings due to injury, ineffectiveness etc.

Team is much shallower from left side of pen. So Rhodes a good addition.

RedLegSuperStar
12-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Pretty good if he's healthy. He is 39 years old though, so it's a risk.

By the way look at the bullpen now.

Locks:
Cordero
Burton
Bray
Weathers
Lincoln
Rhodes

The leaves just one mop-up spot for Owings/Ramirez, Masset, Roenicke, Herrera, Fisher. All those guys except Weathers are guaranteed contracts for 2010 too. I would not at all be suprised if Roenicke is moved this offseason.

We could see newly drafted rule 5 pick David Patton in the pen.

corkedbat
12-11-2008, 01:56 PM
Weathers is still a better alternative, if you're looking for 2009 success. If your goal is to bring along younger pitchers, than obviously Roenicke/Fisher makes more sense.

Reds have good depth in righty relievers. Burton, Cordero, Weathers, Lincoln are locks. Ramirez is knocking on the door. Massett is possible for long relief. Roenicke and Fisher could begin at AAA but with a fast start will fill the inevitable openings due to injury, ineffectiveness etc.

Team is much shallower from left side of pen. So Rhodes a good addition.

Catching help -check
Loogy - check
Impact bat for LF - pending
Shortstop - pending
RH pinch hitter - pending

M2
12-11-2008, 01:57 PM
We could see newly drafted rule 5 pick David Patton in the pen.

Let him show something in ST before we start counting that chicken. He'll have to out-pitch Roenicke and a few others to get the gig.

fearofpopvol1
12-11-2008, 02:04 PM
It sure is nice to see Walt pulling the trigger on things. Even if these aren't sexy moves, they are moves that are improving the team.

I love Rhodes for 1 year, but 2 is probably too much. I'm sure that's the going rate though. Assuming he doesn't have a "no-trade" clause built into his contract, I'd probably try to move him after this season.

I'm curious to see what's next.

Hoosier Red
12-11-2008, 02:06 PM
Two years? I was hoping it was only one year. Rhodes is still a solid pitcher but I'd rather have Reyes for two or three years.

Well if Reyes gets $12 million for three years, you've basically signed Rhodes for the same amount of money for only one year. If he pitches well the second year's free.

Tom Servo
12-11-2008, 02:06 PM
The 2nd year scares me but it's a lot better than the 2 year, $5.5 million with a vesting option we gave another old lefthander a few years back...

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 02:07 PM
Have you received your David Weathers Fathead yet?

Nah, I'm still waiting. I camped out at the post office last night waiting for its delivery.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2008, 02:08 PM
So Rhodes and Mike Lincoln have the same worth? That's a surprise to me for some reason.

Kc61
12-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Catching help -check
Loogy - check
Impact bat for LF - pending
Shortstop - pending
RH pinch hitter - pending

Correct. Except I think the pinch hitter needs to be lefty, not righty. (Or both needed, perhaps.) Valentin no longer a Red, don't see a lefty pinch hitter.

With most pitchers righty, every team needs a lefty pinch hitter. I view Dickerson as a platoon, not a pinch hitter. Maybe he would suffice if on the bench.

Bench as of today (subject to change) would have Keppinger, Hanigan, maybe Hopper, all righties. Maybe Janish makes it or another defensive whiz.

So consider a lefty pinch hitter in the need column, perhaps more than a righty.

Maybe they can split the difference and get a switch hitting pinch hitter.

*BaseClogger*
12-11-2008, 02:13 PM
^^I agree. Most of the bench guys like Keppinger will be righties who hit left-handed pitching well. I want the bench bat to be left-handed...

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 02:14 PM
Rhodes and Reds agreement?

A deal that would bring left-handed reliever Arthur Rhodes appears to be close.

Foxsports.com reported Thursday that the Reds and Rhodes have an agreement on a two-year, $4 million contract, pending a physical. Industry sources familiar with the negotiations told MLB.com, however, that there were still some details to be worked out.

When asked about the report, Reds general manager Walt Jocketty would not comment.

The Reds were considered one of three finalists competing for the services of Rhodes.

-- Mark Sheldon

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/

redsfan30
12-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I'd be more willing to give Rhodes a two year deal than I would Lincoln.

Someone who's murder on lefties out of the pen in this division is a very good thing.

The_jbh
12-11-2008, 02:34 PM
He's only going to be brought in to face lefties... maybe two batters at a time. I like his chances of being effective for two years... not exactly major wear and tear... any time in his career really

cumberlandreds
12-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Oh Boy!! Another old reliever. I can't wait.:rolleyes: I hope it works out but with the Reds recent history I have my doubts.

RedlegJake
12-11-2008, 02:56 PM
I can't believe the naysayers ... Its not a hamstring type deal and he's death on lefties. There is still room for the young arms to find work. Lincoln, Weathers, Rhodes, Burton, Cordero and the best of the young arms. That's a solid pen. You can cry and whine that Weathers and Rhodes are due to fall apart - after all that's what everyone has said for the last 3 or 4 years about them.

Will M
12-11-2008, 02:56 PM
This does explain why we let Affeldt go. As others have pointed out we get 2 years of Rhodes (fingers crossed since he is 39) for one year of Affeldt.

How hard does he throw now? If I recall when he was younger he threw heat.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 03:02 PM
He's only going to be brought in to face lefties... maybe two batters at a time.

Remember the manager.

Here's a look at how Rhodes was used last year:

Games: 61
Games used for less than 3 outs: 47
Games used for more than 3 outs: 2
Games with 15+ pitches: 12 (4 at 20+, 1 at 25+)
Games with 14 pitches or less: 49
Times pitched on back-to-back days: 8
Back-to-back-to-back: 1

Can Baker handle a LOOGY properly -- especially one who's 40 and going to be around for a couple years?

BRM
12-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Can Baker handle a LOOGY properly -- especially one who's 40 and going to be around for a couple years?

Baker is know for his ability to handle a pitching staff. Oh wait...

Heath
12-11-2008, 03:10 PM
Call me old, but it's kinda high for a LOOGY.

But, maybe that's the going rate. Gives a Herrera a mentor of sorts.

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 03:13 PM
This does explain why we let Affeldt go. As others have pointed out we get 2 years of Rhodes (fingers crossed since he is 39) for one year of Affeldt.

How hard does he throw now? If I recall when he was younger he threw heat.

Fastball averaged 91.77 MPH last year. Slider averaged 85.04 MPH last year.
Can hit 94 still with the FB although its not as often as it once was.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Call me old, but it's kinda high for a LOOGY.

But, maybe that's the going rate. Gives a Herrera a mentor of sorts.

Because Herrera throws his screwball so often, a pitch that tails away from right-handers, I don't think he would ever really qualify as a LOOGY. As far as the LOOGY prospects go, I think they pretty much start and end with Ben Jukich at the AAA level. AA is a different story, though.

Tom Servo
12-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Remember the manager.

Here's a look at how Rhodes was used last year:

Games: 61
Games used for less than 3 outs: 47
Games used for more than 3 outs: 2
Games with 15+ pitches: 12 (4 at 20+, 1 at 25+)
Games with 14 pitches or less: 49
Times pitched on back-to-back days: 8
Back-to-back-to-back: 1

Can Baker handle a LOOGY properly -- especially one who's 40 and going to be around for a couple years?
Well Dusty seems to understand the idea of a LOOGY, only he was using the wrong guy in Bray last year who'd usually come in and walk the lefty.

Will M
12-11-2008, 03:19 PM
Well Dusty seems to understand the idea of a LOOGY, only he was using the wrong guy in Bray last year who'd usually come in and walk the lefty.

very true. thinks drove me nuts at times. i like Bray but he walks too many guys.

Cyclone792
12-11-2008, 03:21 PM
very true. thinks drove me nuts at times. i like Bray but he walks too many guys.

Rhodes' biggest weakness is that he walks too many guys too (4 BB per 9 innings).

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Rhodes' biggest weakness is that he walks too many guys too (4 BB per 9 innings).

True, but if he is used like a situational lefty his 11% walk rate from last year means he isn't likely to walk a batter but every 4-5 games he is in.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Rhodes' biggest weakness is that he walks too many guys too (4 BB per 9 innings).

Among Weathers, Cordero, Rhodes, and Burton the bases are going to be LOUSY with baserunners in the late innings.

Another stupid premature move. I am beginning to wonder about Walt.

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Among Weathers, Cordero, Rhodes, and Burton the bases are going to be LOUSY with baserunners in the late innings.

Another stupid premature move. I am beginning to wonder about Walt.

Burton? Dude is one of the better relievers in the league, as is Cordero.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Burton? Dude is one of the better relievers in the league, as is Cordero.

When they know where their pitches are going.

Scrap Irony
12-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Lots of walks probably mean a game or two lost per year among those four.

Of course, the games they "save" are more plentiful.

The Cincinnati 'pen is solid and that's more than can be said about most Red pens over the past seven years. In fact, it very well could be better than last season's pen, which was pretty good.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Lots of walks probably mean a game or two lost per year among those four.

Of course, the games they "save" are more plentiful.

The Cincinnati 'pen is solid and that's more than can be said about most Red pens over the past seven years. In fact, it very well could be better than last season's pen, which was pretty good.

Cordero
Burton
Rhodes
Bray
Weathers
Lincoln

all were plagued by the BB last year. You can get away with it with a couple of arms in a pen, but not the entire pen. That's a napalm pen right there. Nibble city.

Sea Ray
12-11-2008, 04:00 PM
I'd be more willing to give Rhodes a two year deal than I would Lincoln.



I agree and I don't see why folks complain more about Weathers coming back than Lincoln. Weathers is more deserving of a 2009 contract than Lincoln.

BRM
12-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I agree and I don't see why folks complain more about Weathers coming back than Lincoln. Weathers is more deserving of a 2009 contract than Lincoln.

I would have been fine with neither of them coming back.

BRM
12-11-2008, 04:03 PM
Cordero
Burton
Rhodes
Bray
Weathers
Lincoln

all were plagued by the BB last year. You can get away with it with a couple of arms in a pen, but not the entire pen. That's a napalm pen right there. Nibble city.

I'm not nearly as excited about the '09 pen as others but I don't know that I'd classify as a napalm pen either.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Well Dusty seems to understand the idea of a LOOGY, only he was using the wrong guy in Bray last year who'd usually come in and walk the lefty.

I think it's an open question. Baker didn't start using Bray as a true LOOGY until September, when he had a deeper pen. Before September:

Games: 53
Games used for 3 or more outs: 30 (57%, compared to 23% for Rhodes)

In September, Bray was used for less than 3 outs 8 of his 10 games. It remains to be seen if Dusty could pull it off with a 12-man staff.

Another interesting usage stat for Bray, prior to September:

Games: 53
Back-to-back: 11
Back-to-back-to-back: 1
Back-to-back-to-back-to back: 2
Number of times Bray pitched w/out a day of rest: 19 (36% of the time vs. 17% for Rhodes)

I'm not sure Dusty can do it without an expanded roster. I hope he can. Maybe he could in SF or Chicago, I don't know. Maybe the Reds starting staff was too pitch-inefficient for him to be able to have a true LOOGY -- again, it's possible. But my sense is that Rhodes must be used as a LOOGY without a lot of back-to-back work -- and I have doubts whether Baker can swing it.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 04:09 PM
I'm not nearly as excited about the '09 pen as others but I don't know that I'd classify as a napalm pen either.

It is though, unfortunately. One true high-octane, dominating-when-he's-on guy (Burton) has an injury history (already). The rest are either a total mess or really, really yip-py (Cordero).

I'd wager Cordero would massively benefit from a switch with Burton (Cordero = eighth; Burton = closing). I really think that could be a "want-of-a-nail" move.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 04:10 PM
all were plagued by the BB last year. You can get away with it with a couple of arms in a pen, but not the entire pen. That's a napalm pen right there. Nibble city.

It's important to know who not to pitch to late in games. Weathers pitches around guys all the time. It's mostly a veteran pen, and I'm sure a fair few of their BBs will be strategic.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 04:11 PM
It's important to know who not to pitch to late in games. Weathers pitches around guys all the time. It's mostly a veteran pen, and I'm sure a fair few of their BBs will be strategic.

I was going to exempt Weathers from that list for the very reasons you listed; he definitely benefits from Glavine-ing opponents.

BRM
12-11-2008, 04:14 PM
I'd wager Cordero would massively benefit from a switch with Burton (Cordero = eighth; Burton = closing). I really think that could be a "want-of-a-nail" move.

That would probably work but it will never happen.

REDREAD
12-11-2008, 04:32 PM
Well if Reyes gets $12 million for three years, you've basically signed Rhodes for the same amount of money for only one year. If he pitches well the second year's free.

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. It's not as if Reyes is a lock to be better than Rhodes next year.

The Reds probably had to ante up 2 years or not get him at all.

I am going to have to trust Walt on this one too.

He's undoubtably trying to improve the team for next year, which I applaud him for. This is a bit risky, but that's the cost to play the game. At least Rhodes shows signs of being a good bet for 2009 if healthy, unlike Stanton's profile.

Ltlabner
12-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I am beginning to wonder about Walt.

Somewhere the fabric of the universe just ripped in two.

RBA
12-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Good pick up.

Chip R
12-11-2008, 04:47 PM
Somewhere the fabric of the universe just ripped in two.


Rhodes doesn't have the St. Louis pedigree.

jojo
12-11-2008, 04:53 PM
At least the pen generally looks like it could miss some bats.

jojo
12-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Here's a take on Rhodes' contract from Anderson at Fangraphs:


Reds sign Arthur Rhodes, two years, 4 million

Rhodes went from out of baseball in 2007 to a desirable commodity in 2008. The Marlins dealt an arm for Rhodes at the trade deadline, but decided against offering Rhodes arbitration, costing them a compensation pick. Two years for a 39-year-old situational reliever seems a wee bit silly, especially one with some red flags like Rhodes.

Rhodes’ BABIP was .319 in 2008, despite allowing 27.9% line drives. When your pitches are being hit that hard consistently and most of them are still turning into outs, then there’s some level of luck involved. 45% of Rhodes’ batted balls were of the fly variety, and yet zero of those flyballs found their way into the bleachers. Rhodes has never allowed too many homeruns, but within the Great American Ballpark it’s likely that number is going to be a little less round.

The Reds are paying for less than 0.5 WAR annually, so the money itself is fine. Marcels says 43 innings and a 3.66 FIP for the ancient one, making him worth the money all ready. That’s without taking leverage into account, which might be around 1.5.

Good deal financially, but still a bit questionable to give a guaranteed second year.

I added the bolding for FCB's benefit.

Reds1
12-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Vet, Lefty, Success last year, at a good price - Good pick up!

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 05:00 PM
still a bit questionable to give a guaranteed second year.

Amazing to me that supposedly educated baseball observers fail to observe that without the 2nd year the signing likely does not happen.

Then again, I should know that kvetching is de rigueur among the cognoscenti.

PuffyPig
12-11-2008, 05:07 PM
Rhodes doesn't have the St. Louis pedigree.

Well, the Cards were after him too, so that should help.....

PuffyPig
12-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Amazing to me that supposedly educated baseball observers fail to observe that without the 2nd year the signing likely does not happen.



I believe that most teams would always rather sign players for less money and less years.

I don't think we need to be reminded of that with every signing.

Why did Rhodes choose Cincy?

Because we went two years. It's really that simple.

Roy Tucker
12-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Then again, I should know that kvetching is de rigueur among the cognoscenti.



Throw some Chinese in that sentence and I believe you will have spanned the globe.

Will M
12-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Amazing to me that supposedly educated baseball observers fail to observe that without the 2nd year the signing likely does not happen.

Then again, I should know that kvetching is de rigueur among the cognoscenti.

the Reds must offer more than most teams to sign a free agent.
simple fact.

Rhodes actually said he wanted to play for the Cards but the Reds offer was better.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 05:18 PM
the Reds must offer more than most teams to sign a free agent.

To be fair, top dollar is generally the way free agency works.

WebScorpion
12-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Just so my opinion is on the record; I like this signing as long as Rhodes is only used as a LOOGY. He was actually BETTER in the NL (Florida) last year than he was in the AL (Seattle), even though the park in Seattle is the more pitcher-friendly park. He's usually only called upon to get a lefty or two out, so walks were his only major problem and it was only against the tougher hitting AL batters. I think he'll be fine as long as Dusty and Dick don't overestimate his capabilities and leave him in the game too long. :thumbup:

gm
12-11-2008, 06:18 PM
Have you received your David Weathers Fathead yet?

Isn't that kind of redundant?

Few homeowners have that kind of available wallspace...

Weathers = Glom, a character from Lloyd Alexander's Black Cauldron series

gm
12-11-2008, 06:41 PM
Then again, I should know that kvetching is de rigueur among the cognoscenti.

Yiddish, French, Italian?...this entry wins the contest of how many foreign words can be juxtaposed into one sentence

Joseph
12-11-2008, 06:43 PM
To be fair, top dollar is generally the way free agency works.

True, but I think the point is that if the Reds offer is equal to someone elses, say the Cards, the player is going to the Cards 9 out of 10 times.

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 06:55 PM
True, but I think the point is that if the Reds offer is equal to someone elses, say the Cards, the player is going to the Cards 9 out of 10 times.

These days, no doubt.

wheels
12-11-2008, 08:45 PM
Amazing to me that supposedly educated baseball observers fail to observe that without the 2nd year the signing likely does not happen.

Then again, I should know that kvetching is de rigueur among the cognoscenti.

You're one of the cognoscenti, whether you like it or not.:D

lollipopcurve
12-11-2008, 09:08 PM
You're one of the cognoscenti, whether you like it or not.

I'm just a Reds fanatic posting on a message board.

By the way, to whomever reported my post quoted by wheels, you should know that I was quoting a piece from fangraphs and referring to the journalist who wrote it, not to any poster here.

Blitz Dorsey
12-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Reds get Rhodes for half the money it would have taken to re-sign Affeldt. (And actually, maybe it would have taken even more than 2-years/$8 million to sign Affeldt if he wanted to play in SF over Cincinnati.)

I like this very much. Good, solid move. We needed a power lefty out of the pen to replace Affeldt and Walt is able to check that off his list. A decent 2009 team continues to come together IMO.

ramp101
12-11-2008, 10:28 PM
He was absolutely epic for the Marlins last year

Jpup
12-11-2008, 10:44 PM
Well, the Cards were after him too, so that should help.....

He's on the Cubs now.

WebScorpion
12-12-2008, 10:05 AM
He's on the Cubs now.
Are we still talking about Arther Rhodes?? :confused:

REDREAD
12-12-2008, 10:27 AM
Amazing to me that supposedly educated baseball observers fail to observe that without the 2nd year the signing likely does not happen.
.

Exactly, it's either give Rhodes 2 years or give him a one year deal for 4 million.

That's the nature of free agency. There's other clubs bidding on the guy too. Every FA that has more than 1 club interested ends up getting a contract with somewhat of a risk in it, because the winning bidder has to push the envelope a little bit to win the bid. That's one reason why player salaries have escalated. Simple supply and demand.

I'm happy with this signing. I think Rhodes will be at least respectable in 2009. Maybe we get very little out of him in 2010, but we didn't give him that much money.

I like seeing some urgency from the Cincinnati Reds for a change, combined with some reasonable moves. So far, Walt has strengthened the team without giving up anything of note and not giving out a huge contract. Granted, there's still plenty of work to do, but this is a nice start.

The pen will have some shaky moments next year. It's not totally lights out, but it won't be nearly as embarassing as it has been in years past.

Jpup
12-12-2008, 11:02 AM
Are we still talking about Arther Rhodes?? :confused:

nope. nevermind me.:p:

Ron Madden
12-13-2008, 07:46 AM
Exactly, it's either give Rhodes 2 years or give him a one year deal for 4 million.

We also could have offered him a one year deal for less than 4 millon.

He could have turned us down but he would've most likely had to agree to a one year deal less than 4 million with someone else. The man is 39 years old.

I hope it turns out to be a good deal. :pray: