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GADawg
12-11-2008, 09:07 PM
funny stuff....or candid stuff rather I guess...wasn't too high on Homer and stated that he wasn't very open minded....also stated that Pat Burrell wouldn't be the best fit for the Reds 'cause they need someone to make consistent contact

Wasn't really expecting him to be that candid.

Tom Servo
12-11-2008, 09:33 PM
I'm a bit suprised Bronson wouldn't want Burrell given the way Burrell has crushed him in recent memory.

GADawg
12-11-2008, 09:36 PM
he also said something about taking a trip in January with C.C., Bill Hall, and some others....anyone know what that's all about?

Raisor
12-11-2008, 09:44 PM
he also said something about taking a trip in January with C.C., Bill Hall, and some others....anyone know what that's all about?

Are they playing in Japan this year? It's every other year, right? When was the last time?

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 09:53 PM
funny stuff....or candid stuff rather I guess...wasn't too high on Homer and stated that he wasn't very open minded....also stated that Pat Burrell wouldn't be the best fit for the Reds 'cause they need someone to make consistent contact

Wasn't really expecting him to be that candid.
Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy. If Bailey isn't traded, it may be an interesting clubhouse with those two in spring training.

As for player acquisitions.... I don't really want another players opinion on it. Thats what Bob employs a GM and Scouts for.

fearofpopvol1
12-11-2008, 09:57 PM
Bronson has a reputation for being this way. Are you surprised??

I don't really fault him for the Burrell comment, but I'm not sure the Bailey one was wise, given that it's a "current" teammate, sort of.

Falls City Beer
12-11-2008, 09:59 PM
Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy. If Bailey isn't traded, it may be an interesting clubhouse with those two in spring training.

As for player acquisitions.... I don't really want another players opinion on it. Thats what Bob employs a GM and Scouts for.

I'm always curious about someone's honest opinion, though.

RedsManRick
12-11-2008, 10:00 PM
Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy. If Bailey isn't traded, it may be an interesting clubhouse with those two in spring training.

As for player acquisitions.... I don't really want another players opinion on it. Thats what Bob employs a GM and Scouts for.

It's odd. Usually big city rockstar types and back country hunters get along great...

HokieRed
12-11-2008, 10:01 PM
For those of us in other parts of the globe, just what did B.A. say about Homer?

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm always curious about someone's honest opinion, though.

Me too, but I would much rather they make it when they aren't in a position to be around that guy in a working environment for possibly the next 3 years when their opinion isn't that fond of another person when you express that opinion on a 50,000 watt radio station.

cincrazy
12-11-2008, 10:13 PM
Bronson may be right. But Bronson should also be quiet. I don't recall him speaking out during his time in Boston when Manny was being his typical yahoo self.

corkedbat
12-11-2008, 10:16 PM
Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy. If Bailey isn't traded, it may be an interesting clubhouse with those two in spring training.

As for player acquisitions.... I don't really want another players opinion on it. Thats what Bob employs a GM and Scouts for.

Mebbe, mebbe not. Maybe pissing off Homer & challenging his manhood is just what Homer needs if he sticks around.

Matt700wlw
12-11-2008, 10:17 PM
Bronson may be right. But Bronson should also be quiet. I don't recall him speaking out during his time in Boston when Manny was being his typical yahoo self.

They were winning.....and Manny was a big reason why. Homer isn't why this team isn't, but so far he hasn't stepped up and been part of the solution - he's digressed.

MartyFan
12-11-2008, 10:22 PM
I actually like a player who isn't afraid to call players out, be that on his own team or another team.

I LOVE that he is in the grill of Homer, who has the stuff but lacks the "heart" to compete so far.

Same way Brandon put Junior and Dunn on notice that he didn't really care if they were traded, he would be happy to step up and be the leader...is he? I don't know but I also don't mind.

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 10:24 PM
I actually like a player who isn't afraid to call players out, be that on his own team or another team.

I LOVE that he is in the grill of Homer, who has the stuff but lacks the "heart" to compete so far.

Same way Brandon put Junior and Dunn on notice that he didn't really care if they were traded, he would be happy to step up and be the leader...is he? I don't know but I also don't mind.

He isn't in the 'grill' of Homer. He said it on the radio to everyone but Homer. You want to call out a teammate, you do it in the locker room. You keep your business your business.

As for Phillips, he didn't have to play with those guys anymore so that doesn't really relate to this situation. Of course there is also Phillips having a big ego that needs stroked and the team just got rid of the two most popular players on the team, guess who gets to be #1 now? Phillips. Of course he didn't care if they were traded.

CougarQuest
12-11-2008, 10:25 PM
Maybe it's because Homer thinks he smarter than any of the Reds coaches and managers on how to be a MLB pitcher and Bronson is laying it out for him.

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 10:27 PM
Maybe it's because Homer thinks he smarter than any of the Reds coaches and managers on how to be a MLB pitcher and Bronson is laying it out for him.

Which is fine, but do it in person, in the lockerroom. Don't do it not to his face, over the radio to the entire Midwest.

Matt700wlw
12-11-2008, 10:32 PM
Maybe he has.....and he was giving an honest answer rather than a typical media 'non-answer'

CougarQuest
12-11-2008, 10:33 PM
Which is fine, but do it in person, in the lockerroom. Don't do it not to his face, over the radio to the entire Midwest.
I suspect he already has. He certainly wouldn't be the first to be extremely weary about Homer. This may be more of bracing the fans for the inevitable.

dougdirt
12-11-2008, 10:33 PM
Maybe he has.....and he was giving an honest answer rather than a typical media 'non-answer'

If he has, then you are right. But if he hasn't, then I find it as a big problem.

Matt700wlw
12-11-2008, 10:36 PM
I can't fault you for that...I would too. I would think after dealing with the Boston media, he's got this interview thing figured out.

nate
12-11-2008, 10:50 PM
I could go either way on keeping Homer or trading him. However, I have to think Bronson saying this doesn't do anything to raise Homer's trade value.

Of course, it would be nice to know exactly what he said. Is there a transcript or audio?

SMcGavin
12-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Maybe it's because Homer thinks he smarter than any of the Reds coaches and managers on how to be a MLB pitcher and Bronson is laying it out for him.

And we all know the best way to get through to a stubborn, hardheaded kid is to call him out publicly while talking to a 3rd party, causing that kid to become even more defensive and less open to hearing other's opinions.

I generally like Arroyo, but he's kind of an idiot.

Redhook
12-11-2008, 11:03 PM
I like Bronson for saying this. I want the Reds to win and so does Bronson. They've been bad for so long I could give rat's arse what it takes to get back to the top, even if it means calling out some of players. They all need to step it up. I'm tired of this garbage.

BCubb2003
12-11-2008, 11:31 PM
Maybe Arroyo doesn't like guys from Texas ...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71067

wally post
12-12-2008, 12:25 AM
Bronson is a major league pitcher. I dig him for saying this... sometimes somebody has to step up in a locker room and he felt it was time - nothing to lose for him personally...
I think there is no reason to pick over this. Let Bailey hear the message.

dougdirt
12-12-2008, 01:05 AM
Bronson is a major league pitcher. I dig him for saying this... sometimes somebody has to step up in a locker room and he felt it was time - nothing to lose for him personally...
I think there is no reason to pick over this. Let Bailey hear the message.

My problem is because he didn't step up in the locker room, but aired it on the radio. And there is something for him to lose, respectability. Some players may not take to kind of being called out in public, or even their teammates being called out in public if the situation hadn't been addressed by the player in private first.

Blitz Dorsey
12-12-2008, 01:26 AM
I'm more worried about Bronson keeping his ERA under 5 this season than what he says on a radio show. I agree he probably shouldn't have said it, but one thing I like about Arroyo is his honesty when being interviewed. It's refreshing and so rare these days.

Maybe Bronson knows the Bailey-for-Dye trade is a go afterall? Therefore, he doesn't feel bad throwing Bailey under the bus, or in the river, whatever it may be.

Blitz Dorsey
12-12-2008, 01:30 AM
My problem is because he didn't step up in the locker room, but aired it on the radio. And there is something for him to lose, respectability. Some players may not take to kind of being called out in public, or even their teammates being called out in public if the situation hadn't been addressed by the player in private first.

Maybe Bronson didn't think he'd have a chance to bring it up in the locker room since he doesn't plan on pitching at the AAA level in 2009?

I keed, I keed. I used to defend Bailey on these boards, as late as last year. But the guy is a trainwreck. Imagine how much he must be disliked by his teammates if they are actually talking about it on the air. Seriously, think about that for a second. Doesn't make what Arroyo did right, but I am done defending Homer Bailey. The guy just doesn't seem to get it for whatever reason. The first 100 times I heard he was a selfish jerk I defended him. Something about that 101st time cracked me. And I'm sure if he didn't completely stink it up on the mound, no one would bring up his attitude problem or the fact his teammates don't like him. But as it were...

dougdirt
12-12-2008, 01:44 AM
Maybe Bronson didn't think he'd have a chance to bring it up in the locker room since he doesn't plan on pitching at the AAA level in 2009?

I keed, I keed. I used to defend Bailey on these boards, as late as last year. But the guy is a trainwreck. Imagine how much he must be disliked by his teammates if they are actually talking about it on the air. Seriously, think about that for a second. Doesn't make what Arroyo did right, but I am done defending Homer Bailey. The guy just doesn't seem to get it for whatever reason. The first 100 times I heard he was a selfish jerk I defended him. Something about that 101st time cracked me. And I'm sure if he didn't completely stink it up on the mound, no one would bring up his attitude problem or the fact his teammates don't like him. But as it were...

Well apparently Adam Dunn is a good dude who guys like..... but Bronson didn't have any problems talking about him either. Maybe Bronson is just a drama queen?

As for people saying he is a selfish jerk.... how many of these tales are second hand? I am going to go with 95% of them. The guy might be the biggest jerk in the world. He might be the nicest too. I have heard a thousand 'Griffey is a selfish jerk' stories.... dude was as nice as he could be when I had the chance to meet him. You just never know what happened to someone before you run into them, and with professional athletes, you never know how many times you are hearing a story that someone else heard and next thing you know you have a fantastic game of telephone going on.

wally post
12-12-2008, 01:50 AM
We'll never know... Some personality types are driven in their heart to try to make things better, but are clumsy at it - I am guessing this is the case....
Honestly so much of this is none of our business - as fans.

There is the stage... and there is the dugout. (I don't expect to make sense here) - But, I like him for saying something outside of the inner circle, and he is good at this kind of thing. Maybe he is possible leader perhaps in his crazy way - . He could've said"we'll take one game at a time... etc." This is no biggie overall IMO

M2
12-12-2008, 02:16 AM
Random thoughts:

A) Bronson Arroyo's set for life. He should say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whomever he wants to say it.

B) Who's to say Arroyo and others haven't said these things directly to Bailey? Given some of the reports in recent years about Bailey being hard-headed and a bit of a loner, they very well may have and all Arroyo is doing is voicing a widely held, and not terribly secret, locker room opinion of the kid.

C) Unless Arroyo said something particularly damning that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, I don't see where he said anything all that alarming about Bailey.

D) Veterans have been telling reporters that such-and-such kid just doesn't get it since the 19th century.

E) Arroyo's going to make good coin after his playing days working as a commentator/analyst.

MartyFan
12-12-2008, 02:48 AM
As I recall, BP offered to step up as he team leader while Junior and Dunn were still with the team last year.

I also recall reports about Homer from last spring saying that the kid has kiler stuff but he doesn't have enough sense on how to use it and lacks the willingness to listen to anyone who could help him learn that...so, Homer being talked about by BA is not a real surprise.

I would be in the school of people who were really excited about Homer but I am convinced that he needs to be woke up before he will be able to pitch effectively at all...that being said, maybe a change of scenery would be best, maybe humiliation.

Arroyo FOR SURE likes to be in the print, on the boards and other media, he has a fanbase to grow...is he out of line? Not if he can back up what he says...and since he has been able to make a MLB roster out of ST for a few years, I'd say he can.

CTA513
12-12-2008, 03:09 AM
Take away his guitar and put a muzzle on him.

Ron Madden
12-12-2008, 03:53 AM
Much adieu about nothing.

I'm tired of hearing about Players who should or should not be "Clubhouse Leaders". That's all media driven bologna anyway.

In my humble opinion if the media is fond of a player, they will ignore his on the field shortcomings and repeatedly tell us he has "Clubhouse Presence and is a "Leader".

I'll take a player that's productive on the field over a clubhouse politician any day.

Topcat
12-12-2008, 04:44 AM
I'm always curious about someone's honest opinion, though.

Have to agree it is the role of team vet's to police clubhouse and in Bronson's case frank talk maybe just the thing needed to kick Homer in the butt and become what I think moist red's fans know he can be.:thumbup:

Topcat
12-12-2008, 04:51 AM
My problem is because he didn't step up in the locker room, but aired it on the radio. And there is something for him to lose, respectability. Some players may not take to kind of being called out in public, or even their teammates being called out in public if the situation hadn't been addressed by the player in private first.


You do not know Doug both Harang and Bronson may have offered suggestions etc over the past to Homer that fell on deaf ears. I honestly think Bronson is media savvy enough to know that what he said on Homer was done with a purpose. sometimes calling a guy out when he has been unreceptive in the past is best way to go.

WMR
12-12-2008, 05:07 AM
As I recall, BP offered to step up as he team leader while Junior and Dunn were still with the team last year.

I also recall reports about Homer from last spring saying that the kid has kiler stuff but he doesn't have enough sense on how to use it and lacks the willingness to listen to anyone who could help him learn that...so, Homer being talked about by BA is not a real surprise.

I would be in the school of people who were really excited about Homer but I am convinced that he needs to be woke up before he will be able to pitch effectively at all...that being said, maybe a change of scenery would be best, maybe humiliation.

Arroyo FOR SURE likes to be in the print, on the boards and other media, he has a fanbase to grow...is he out of line? Not if he can back up what he says...and since he has been able to make a MLB roster out of ST for a few years, I'd say he can.

Brandon Phillips "offering" to be a leader, or proclaiming himself to be a leader, does not a leader make.

cincrazy
12-12-2008, 07:37 AM
They were winning.....and Manny was a big reason why. Homer isn't why this team isn't, but so far he hasn't stepped up and been part of the solution - he's digressed.

True, they were winning. But if you're going to call out one teammate, you might as well call out all of them who might not be doing their job. I don't think Arroyo would like it very much if Homer or Dunn said "Bronson's inconsistency stems from the fact that he cares more about music than he does baseball."

Cyclone792
12-12-2008, 07:55 AM
McCoy last May on Homer:


Two of his teammates, both in the rotation, took him to task for a “big-league attitude” this spring and one said, “What he needs is for somebody to take him water skiing, without the skiis.”

Strikes Out Looking
12-12-2008, 08:11 AM
Bronson's comments are straight from the Curt Schilling school, an ex-teamate and rotation mate's of Bronson.

And whether you think he should have made his comments on the radio, I think he's right.

RBA
12-12-2008, 08:25 AM
Good for Arroyo. Homer needs to toughen up if he's going to make it as a MLB pitcher.

SunDeck
12-12-2008, 08:37 AM
Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy. If Bailey isn't traded, it may be an interesting clubhouse with those two in spring training.



I don't think so.
One guy is an established, not too shabby major league pitcher while the other is a guy, projected to be a star but who can't seem to figure out life beyond AA. That's life in sports; those who figure it out have the right to judge those who haven't and the only way to gain access to the fraternity is to perform.

BoydsOfSummer
12-12-2008, 08:43 AM
Homey doesn't have to improve much to match Bronson's 4.81 ERA. But give 'em hell anyways, Bronson, somebody needs to!

blumj
12-12-2008, 08:46 AM
I can't fault you for that...I would too. I would think after dealing with the Boston media, he's got this interview thing figured out.
The Boston media loved him because he just always said whatever he was thinking. Like Eckersley, if you always spill everything, you can get away with spilling anything.

bucksfan2
12-12-2008, 09:08 AM
MLB candid comments are all what you want to make about them. Last spring training 'The Stache' said "put him in the bullpen or whatever". Just after the Dunn trade Arroyo came on and gave some not so great comments about Dunner.

Each comment can be intrepreted a different way. The Stache comment could have been used as ammo against him or as ammo against Krivsky as to what he was thinking trading Hamilton for a bullpen fixture. Arroyo's Dunn comments could be taken as Arroyo is an idiot or Dunn wants to get paid.

TRF
12-12-2008, 09:28 AM
Put me in the Arroyo camp on this one too. IF Bailey is Red's property, he'll either man up or live down to BA's comments. If the former, he's got the tools to be a very good pitcher. If the latter, his ceiling may be Brett Tomko.

Sea Ray
12-12-2008, 09:34 AM
I think part of this is the fact that fellow players look at Bailey on the mound and think "what's with all the hype?" The guy is just not that impressive. These are major league players. They've seen 96 MPH fastballs and they don't see anything really impressive about this guy. I saw batters extremely comfortable in the batters box facing him. He doesn't have great movement or great command.

REDREAD
12-12-2008, 09:41 AM
Brandon Phillips "offering" to be a leader, or proclaiming himself to be a leader, does not a leader make.

If I remember correctly, this began on a radio interview. I think it was right after Jr was traded. Paul Daughtry was getting Phillips reaction and asked him that since Jr was gone, was Phillips ready to be the leader. What was Phillips supposed to say? No? I heard the interview. Phillips is obviously not the well educated, smooth media talker as some players are, but he handled himself well. He was trying to be extremely careful not to disrespect Jr or anyone else.

I'm not denying that Phillips has an ego, but I see a kid that is not very educated and gets things pulled out of context.

For example, they interviewed Phillips on the radio on draft day and asked him about when he was drafted. When Phillips was drafted, he said he had no idea there was a ML franchise in Canada. (He was drafted by Montreal). He also thought he was going to report directly to Montreal instead of the minor leagues.. From other interviews too, it's obvious he's no Barry Larkin on an interview. That doesn't make him a bad person or teammate. I think what he says can easily be misconstrued.

nate
12-12-2008, 09:42 AM
MLB candid comments are all what you want to make about them. Last spring training 'The Stache' said "put him in the bullpen or whatever".

I thought that quote was about Johnny Cueto.

Ltlabner
12-12-2008, 09:45 AM
McCoy last May on Homer:

Thats funny.

I see the Homer Bailey attitude with new sales guys sometimes. They show up at their first sales meeting and they're very intent on letting everyone know how great they are.

One time, I had a new guy questioning why I chose a particular product when he hadn't been with the company long enough to know the product line, let alone understand the reasons for choosing what I did.

Bailey has a big ego and, apparently, mouth. It didn't help that he was touted as the second coming of Jesus Christ. Some of the "old timers" who've actually produced at the big league level found him obnoxious.

Happens all the time in many/most industries.

Chip R
12-12-2008, 09:47 AM
I thought that quote was about Johnny Cueto.


I think it was about Volquez.

Nevertheless, Javy was just being Javy and trying to motivate the kid. And it worked. I miss him already. :(

Unassisted
12-12-2008, 09:51 AM
Let Arroyo speak his mind on his teammates. It's preferable to all of us trying to draw conclusions about intangibles from body language and binoculars trained on the dugout.

westofyou
12-12-2008, 10:39 AM
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_4_67/ai_n25379611/pg_4


Asked if he wanted to be a leader like Barry Larkin was, he said, "t want to be just like Barry Larkin. He was my favorite player growing up and I've heard a lot of good things about him. But I am still trying to get my feet wet here. Maybe I can be a leader in the next few years. Now I'm just doing my thing on the field and maybe it will become much easier for me to become a leader," Phillips said.

"A lot of people see a lot of hot (tog. This is the only way I know how to play. If something flashy happens, I just don't mean to do it. That's me. I want kids to say he makes the game fun," he said.

Hearsay and opinions are fun... fans have them too:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/09/17/nadine_now_believes_im_clairvo.html


By Red_in_ky

September 17, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
Wanted to post this again here, just in case it got lost in the fold on the last post: Hal, I think it was you who was commenting about Brandon Phillips wanting to be the “leader” of the team…I’ve got a story about that. I was at the game last night, and saw Brandon out in the commons talking to a couple employees around the community fund booth. I know he’s on the DL, but if he wants to be the leader of the team, shouldn’t he be in the dugout? Secondarily, a girl of about 8 came up and asked for an autograph, and he raised his recently operated on hand and laughed at her, not giving her the autograph or making any effort to do. It was a really disappointing night for me. For someone that wants to be a leader and face of a team, he shows up at the park and isn’t with the team during the game, and then can’t give an autograph to a kid, or at least make an effort to scribble something? Great move from the “New face of the franchise”. What a jerk.

Blitz Dorsey
12-12-2008, 11:12 AM
Red_in_ky sounds like a bitter person.

And yeah, Porn Stache was definitely talking about Volquez with the "bullpen or whatever" comment last spring. Could have been joking for all we know. Was it only reported by Fay or did a real journalist report it as well? I'm waiting for Fay to get busted for plagerizing off some 12-year-old kid's MLB blog. Course, there are few 12-year-olds that spell that poorly.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Homey doesn't have to improve much to match Bronson's 4.81 ERA. But give 'em hell anyways, Bronson, somebody needs to!

North of 7 is a big difference than South of 5.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 01:11 PM
I think it was about Volquez.

Nevertheless, Javy was just being Javy and trying to motivate the kid. And it worked. I miss him already. :(

The power of the 'stache motivates.

BoydsOfSummer
12-13-2008, 02:32 PM
North of 7 is a big difference than South of 5.

they both blow. :D

top6
12-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Secondarily, a girl of about 8 came up and asked for an autograph, and he raised his recently operated on hand and laughed at her, not giving her the autograph or making any effort to do.
Doesn't this sound like Brandon Phillips was asked for an autograph, but could not sign it due to his broken finger, and was trying to indicate as much to the fan? OUTRAGEOUS.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 03:08 PM
they both blow. :D

Well, Arroyo's clearly better than Bailey (not that that's saying much...), but I still can't for the life of me understand how Arroyo is any better than league average, and given his price tag, it makes me think that Arroyo is worse than league average in terms of $ value.

Part of me hopes both Arroyo and Bailey aren't Reds on Opening Day. I think we'll be a better team in the long run without either of them.

RedFanAlways1966
12-13-2008, 04:02 PM
I like it. Talk on Bronson. Put the kid's large and hard head in it's place. We heard this same stuff about Homer a while back. Rest assured people have told him how to "act" behind closed doors. Bronson does not say this stuff now if the kid has changed. Truth hurts.