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flyer85
12-12-2008, 11:01 AM
They have replaced their RH bat with a lesser lefthanded bat in Ibanez. The Phillies just downgraded and got older.

Ibanez career OPS is .818 and Burrell's is .852. Ibanez will be 37.


The Phillies have agreed to a three-year contract with free-agent outfielder Raul Ibanez, pending a physical. The deal is believed to be worth $30 million over three years.

The 36-year-old Ibanez will become the Phillies' new everyday leftfielder, and his signing means the Phillies no longer will pursue their longtime leftfielder, Pat Burrell, who is also a free agent.

Ibanez had drawn significant interest from a number of teams, including the Cubs, Mets, Angels and Braves. But he had been sending signals through friends that the Phillies were his first choice.

And the Phillies stepped up their efforts to sign him Thursday after it became known that the Angels also were negotiating the parameters of a deal with Ibanez as their No. 1 alternative if they lost out in efforts to sign Mark Teixeira.

Ibanez, who turns 37 next June, has spent the past five seasons with the Mariners, where he was a longtime favorite of Pat Gillick, then the Mariners' GM and now the outgoing Phillies GM.

Ibanez hit .293 this season, with 23 homers, 110 RBIs, a .358 on-base percentage and a .472 slugging percentage. He is one of just five outfielders who have driven in at least 100 runs in each of the past three seasons. The others: Carlos Beltran, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee and Bobby Abreu.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:03 AM
3/30 for Ibanez? Maybe prices aren't going to drop all that much after all.

Jpup
12-12-2008, 11:04 AM
I can't imagine why there is so much interest in Ibanez. He must be a really good guy or something because he's really not that great.

Jpup
12-12-2008, 11:06 AM
3/30 for Ibanez? Maybe prices aren't going to drop all that much after all.

It's about what I expected though. I guessed Burrell at about 10 million per. I would expect Abreu and Dunn to get a little more, but it depends on where they go. I Abreu can get a deal with the Yankees, I expect him to return there.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:07 AM
It's about what I expected though. I guessed Burrell at about 10 million per. I would expect Abreu and Dunn to get a little more, but it depends on where they go. I Abreu can get a deal with the Yankees, I expect him to return there.

Burrell, Dunn, and Abreu should all get more than Ibanez.

dfs
12-12-2008, 11:09 AM
3/30 for Ibanez? Maybe prices aren't going to drop all that much after all.
You mean maybe the owners cried poor again but are going to cough up the money once free agent season arrives?

There's a surprise. You can set your calender by it.

Jpup
12-12-2008, 11:09 AM
Burrell, Dunn, and Abreu should all get more than Ibanez.

Oh, I agree. I was just saying that I guessed Burrell would get 10 million per before this signing.

jojo
12-12-2008, 11:10 AM
Wowsers....the Phils really do hate their fans (I thought it was the other way around). :-)

Seriously, he's a great guy and I wish him the best (and may he continue to give stat heads the finger as he steps to the plate), but I think this one is a reach.

Heath
12-12-2008, 11:10 AM
Wow. A 36yr old corner OF'er gets' 10 Mill.

PuffyPig
12-12-2008, 11:10 AM
He's a good , consistent hitter in a pitchers ballpark. he can field.

His offense should spike in that Philly park.

Considering the years and money, he's likely a better fit in Philly than Burrell.

Jpup
12-12-2008, 11:11 AM
Considering the years and money, he's likely a better fit in Philly than Burrell.

why?

remdog
12-12-2008, 11:12 AM
Burrell, Dunn, and Abreu should all get more than Ibanez.

Based upon what Ibanez just signed for that would be a true statement.

Personally however, I think the Phils just overpaid.

Rem

RedEye
12-12-2008, 11:12 AM
He's a good , consistent hitter in a pitchers ballpark. he can field.

His offense should spike in that Philly park.

Considering the years and money, he's likely a better fit in Philly than Burrell.

My friend who is an M's fan had me under the impression that Ibanez was a terrible outfielder. He's very happy to replace him with Franklin Gutierrez.

flyer85
12-12-2008, 11:14 AM
He's a good , consistent hitter in a pitchers ballpark. he can field.
Safeco is not a bad park for LH hitters ... and the ballpark you play doesn't change who you are. Everyone else gets a bump as well.

When you reach 37-39 there is an excellent chance that skills will erode very quickly. Ibanez for 3 years is extremely risky.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Based upon what Ibanez just signed for that would be a true statement.

Personally however, I think the Phils just overpaid.

Rem

No doubt. He's not much better defensively than the guy he's replacing and he's quite a bit older. Offense is a push at best.

jojo
12-12-2008, 11:21 AM
My friend who is an M's fan had me under the impression that Ibanez was a terrible outfielder. He's very happy to replace him with Franklin Gutierrez.

Raul is a DH. He's fun to watch hit though but the bat is waning. Inside the clubhouse, the guy is an absolute all-star.

RedEye
12-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Raul is a DH. He's fun to watch hit though but the bat is waning. Inside the clubhouse, the guy is an absolute all-star.

That's what I thought. The Phillies FO likely has an amnesty for at least a few years after their WS victory, but this type of signing isn't likely going to make that team a dynasty.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:28 AM
flyer summed it up best in the original post. The Phils just downgraded and got older at the same time.

Raisor
12-12-2008, 11:33 AM
flyer summed it up best in the original post. The Phils just downgraded and got older at the same time.


Which is what the Reds will do if they sign Pat the Bat.

flyer85
12-12-2008, 11:35 AM
Which is what the Reds will do if they sign Pat the Bat.depends on how you look at it. What they shouldn't do is give someone a 3 year deal(or more) to play LF. A one year deal would be ideal with an option for a 2nd year.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:35 AM
Which is what the Reds will do if they sign Pat the Bat.

Yep. Actually, I expect the Reds to downgrade offensively and get older in LF anyway based on the options they appear to be looking at. Hopefully they at least get a little better defensively in the process. Although I still can't figure out why they are sweating LF defense so much.

I agree with flyer on the contract length as well. A one year deal for one of these guys would be ideal but I don't know if Walt can pull it off.

lollipopcurve
12-12-2008, 11:37 AM
depends on how you look at it. What they shouldn't do is give someone a 3 year deal(or more) to play LF. A one year deal would be ideal with an option for a 2nd year.

This is the appeal of Dye. You won't get a comparable bat on that kind of deal. Abreu is going to be looking for 3 years, and he'll probably get it.

BRM
12-12-2008, 11:39 AM
This is the appeal of Dye. You won't get a comparable bat on that kind of deal. Abreu is going to be looking for 3 years, and he'll probably get it.

He should get it too if Ibanez can get 3.

Depends on who the other prospect is when it comes to Dye, assuming the Sox want another one to go with Bailey. I agree his contract does make him a bit more appealing.

REDREAD
12-12-2008, 11:40 AM
Wow, crazy contract. I can see why the Reds weren't after the guy if he had an offer like that on the table.

It will be interesting to see what Dunn and Burrell get.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-12-2008, 11:51 AM
Ibanez has actually hit better at home for all but one of his five years in Seattle.

M2
12-12-2008, 12:04 PM
3/30 for Ibanez? Maybe prices aren't going to drop all that much after all.

First thing that crossed my mind too. That and Oliver Perez just upped his asking price to the Mets.

Heath
12-12-2008, 12:14 PM
First thing that crossed my mind too. That and Oliver Perez just upped his asking price to the Mets.

If the Mets were smart, they'd just keep walking on by realizing that their biggest rival just got older.

Topcat
12-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Wow. A 36yr old corner OF'er gets' 10 Mill.


Wait till you see what an old Manny gets.;)

*BaseClogger*
12-12-2008, 06:05 PM
Just imagine what RedsZone will do when Ibanez gets a larger contract than Dunn because he is a good guy in the clubhouse... ;)

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 01:42 PM
Which is what the Reds will do if they sign Pat the Bat.

Phillies Phans hated Pat Burrell and have probably run him out of town.

Reds fans hated Adam Dunn and ran him out of town.

What's the over/under on Pat Burrell being hated, and subsequently ran out of town by Reds fans if he ends up in Cincy?

This isn't going out on a limb by any stretch of the imagination, but Pat the Bat won't play the full length of any contract he signs in Cincy. If he signs a 4 year deal, he'll probably play 2.5 here, IMO.

Stewie
12-13-2008, 07:35 PM
They have replaced their RH bat with a lesser lefthanded bat in Ibanez. The Phillies just downgraded and got older.

Ibanez career OPS is .818 and Burrell's is .852. Ibanez will be 37.

Plus they punted away their first round draft pick to sign Ibanez, while receiving nothing in return after not offering Burrell arbitration.

Well played, Ruben Amaro. Well played

jojo
12-13-2008, 07:56 PM
Plus they punted away their first round draft pick to sign Ibanez, while receiving nothing in return after not offering Burrell arbitration.

Well played, Ruben Amaro. Well played

It's not a great start is it (and I like Ibanez)?

Reds Nd2
12-15-2008, 12:10 AM
Which is what the Reds will do if they sign Pat the Bat.


What's the over/under on Pat Burrell being hated, and subsequently ran out of town by Reds fans if he ends up in Cincy?


Per John Perrotto at BP.

The Reds are making a play for free-agent outfielder Pat Burrell, who won't return to the Phillies after the Ibanez signing.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8369

Reds Nd2
12-17-2008, 12:31 PM
... While the Reds are trying to sign free-agent outfielder Pat Burrell, they are also looking at more affordable right-handed hitting options, such as Rocco Baldelli and Juan Rivera. ...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8379

Highlifeman21
12-17-2008, 09:11 PM
... While the Reds are trying to sign free-agent outfielder Pat Burrell, they are also looking at more affordable right-handed hitting options, such as Rocco Baldelli and Juan Rivera. ...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8379

The Phillies can have both of 'em.