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Wheelhouse
12-12-2008, 12:29 PM
McCoy leads in his blog, backpedaling from his Dye claim:

"For those vilifying me and suggesting I made up the Homer Bailey for Jermaine Dye deal, well, let me aim you toward another source - one who is right more often than wrong."

Em, no Hal, I have not heard or read of anyone, not one person, contend that you made the Dye story up. Maybe you got one or two crank emails. What you need to address something else--your poor journalism.

Then this:

"The Reds selected pitcher David Patton off the roster of the Class AAA Colorado Springs Sky Sox, an affiliate of the Colorado Rockies, then immediately traded him to the Chicago Cubs for cash, presumably the $25,000 the Reds paid to draft him."

Presumably the $25 K it took to draft him? Why presumably? Are the Reds now in the business of helping their good friends the Cubs? There is no doubt that the Reds received something more than the $25,000 it took to draft Patton.

To some this may seem like splitting hairs, but it's ongoing inaccuracy in reporting that is becoming really bothersome to read, IMO. Hal is not an announcer employed by the club. He's a journalist, and there are professional standards that he constantly fails to meet. Hal may be a great guy--I'm not saying I don't like him. I think it's terrific that he answers emails, etc. But the other sportswriters do also. Inaccurate reporting, then snarky reactions to readers objections. Not a good combo.

TRF
12-12-2008, 12:45 PM
Doesn't a rule Y draftee cost 50k? but regardless didn't the Cubs and Reds do this exact same thing in reverse for Hamilton? I don't believe it was anything more than 50K for Josh.

Chip R
12-12-2008, 01:04 PM
I'm surprised Hal isn't still saying that there's a chance the Dye trade could go through.

I think Hal does a great job on columns and features. He has a nice touch with personal items but his skills as a beat writer have diminished.

Always Red
12-12-2008, 01:09 PM
"The Reds selected pitcher David Patton off the roster of the Class AAA Colorado Springs Sky Sox, an affiliate of the Colorado Rockies, then immediately traded him to the Chicago Cubs for cash, presumably the $25,000 the Reds paid to draft him."

Presumably the $25 K it took to draft him? Why presumably? Are the Reds now in the business of helping their good friends the Cubs? There is no doubt that the Reds received something more than the $25,000 it took to draft Patton.


Yes, actually returning a favor to their good friends, the Cubs, who selected Josh Hamilton 2 years ago, and then traded him to the Reds for cash. As a favor.

I actually prefer Hal to the other scribes who write for this team, with the exception of C Trent, who is between papers right now. Hal is getting up there in age (and experience) but has earned my respect through the years. You don't get into the Hall of Fame by accident.

He loves baseball, and he loves the Reds. Hal's ok in my book!

corkedbat
12-12-2008, 01:38 PM
Yes, actually returning a favor to their good friends, the Cubs, who selected Josh Hamilton 2 years ago, and then traded him to the Reds for cash. As a favor.

I actually prefer Hal to the other scribes who write for this team, with the exception of C Trent, who is between papers right now. Hal is getting up there in age (and experience) but has earned my respect through the years. You don't get into the Hall of Fame by accident.

He loves baseball, and he loves the Reds. Hal's ok in my book!


I agree, Hal's got his warts, but I rend to give him a break. Heck even I wasn'y always perfect. I thought I made a mistake once - and I was wrong! :D

redsmetz
12-12-2008, 01:44 PM
Actually, if I remember correctly, we paid the Cubs $100 Grand, not the $50K the Cubs paid to draft, although I can't find a specific reference to that number. I doubt it was a dollar for dollar exchange. What would be in it for the Reds to help out a division rival for nothing?

WMR
12-12-2008, 01:45 PM
I'd take one Hal over a hundred million Fays.

Mario-Rijo
12-12-2008, 01:51 PM
Yes, actually returning a favor to their good friends, the Cubs, who selected Josh Hamilton 2 years ago, and then traded him to the Reds for cash. As a favor.

I actually prefer Hal to the other scribes who write for this team, with the exception of C Trent, who is between papers right now. Hal is getting up there in age (and experience) but has earned my respect through the years. You don't get into the Hall of Fame by accident.

He loves baseball, and he loves the Reds. Hal's ok in my book!

I agree, I understand he's made some mistakes as all in his shoes will. But I think if people are upset they should take it out on the Paper and not go to belittling the man as if he's deserved it somehow because he's made a few errors in writing or ran with a story a tad sooner than maybe he should have etc. If he were their grandfather they certainly would give him benefit of the doubt if he didn't recall some particular memories. I'm not saying anyone is doing it in this thread, actually I am referring to his blog. But that goes for anyone with lack of respect for their elders.

camisadelgolf
12-12-2008, 02:03 PM
Actually, if I remember correctly, we paid the Cubs $100 Grand, not the $50K the Cubs paid to draft, although I can't find a specific reference to that number. I doubt it was a dollar for dollar exchange. What would be in it for the Reds to help out a division rival for nothing?

That's true--it cost $100,000.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080714/SPORTS/282343154/-1/RSS04

I have a few theories on the matter, if what Hal McCoy reported is true (and that's a big 'if' at this point).

1. A lot of the GMs probably have good relationships with each other. Most of them are old and have been involved with baseball practically their whole lives. After years and years of meetings, a lot of them are probably very close to each other and even feel comfortable enough to make jokes with each other. Maybe Jim Hendry said to Walt Jocketty, "You know, your organization really owes us for that whole Josh Hamilton thing," to which Jocketty responded, "You know what? You're right. Who do you want? We'll sell him to you."

2. Perhaps Jocketty honored a deal that Krivsky had made with the Cubs. "Since there's no one in the 2007 rule five draft that you're particularly interested in, could we buy your pick from you this year, and then next year, you get to buy our pick from us?" Because Hamilton turned out to be a star, maybe Jocketty felt nice and said, "You know, you paid enough. Just pay us for the pick and keep the $50,000. It looks like your owners could use the extra cash anyway."

I'll stop typing, but that's a couple theories anyway. I could go on, but they get less and less realistic as I come up with them. My most recent theory involved whips, leather, photos, and blackmail.

Wheelhouse
12-12-2008, 02:06 PM
Hamilton was sold to the Reds for $100,000, not as a favor. I would imagine the Reds got the same.

And hey, I know people make mistakes, but in Hal's case it's constant, and he reacts in a very abrasive way when he's called on it...

mbgrayson
12-12-2008, 02:19 PM
I'd take one Hal over a hundred million Fays.

Now THATS a scary thought....100 million John Fays....where would they all live...how could all 100 million fit in the stadium to watch the game....

I prefer Mr. McCoy also.

Always Red
12-12-2008, 02:26 PM
Hamilton was sold to the Reds for $100,000, not as a favor. I would imagine the Reds got the same.



Yes, the Cubs drafted Hamilton for one reason only- because the Reds asked them to. $50,000 (the difference between what the Cubs paid for Hammy, and what they sold him to the Reds for) in baseball dollars is a pittance. It was a favor, a gentleman's agreement, worked out ahead of time.

On some boards, Cubs fans have been gnashing their teeth ever since by what might have been with Josh Hamilton. Some of them do not understand that only reason the Cubs ever drafted him was because the Reds asked them to do so.

Wheelhouse
12-12-2008, 02:47 PM
$50 K is a pittance in terms of player salaries, it is not, however, in terms of operational costs. The $50 K probably paid a good deal of the Cubs costs to go to the Winter Meetings in '06... Not bad when your scouts felt that there was nothing that really interested them in the Rule 5 that year...

remdog
12-12-2008, 02:52 PM
The only thing I find unusual here is that anyone reads Hal's stuff anymore.

Rem

AtomicDumpling
12-12-2008, 03:41 PM
I think Hal McCoy is by far the best columnist covering the Reds. The vitriolic comments from readers on his blog were disgusting and hateful. So the guy jumped the gun on announcing a trade. Big deal. It was an honest mistake. He doesn't deserve to be treated with such disrespect.

M2
12-12-2008, 03:44 PM
I think Hal McCoy is by far the best columnist covering the Reds. The vitriolic comments from readers on his blog were disgusting and hateful. So the guy jumped the gun on announcing a trade. Big deal. It was an honest mistake. He doesn't deserve to be treated with such disrespect.

It was a lazy mistake. He should have called the team, even for a perfunctory non-comment. What he ought to do now is stop insisting the thing he said would happen and didn't really was going to happen even though it didn't.

Roy Tucker
12-12-2008, 03:45 PM
I like Hal as much as the next guy and enjoy his writing.

But his journalistic discipline has proven to be somewhat suspect every so often. So when he reports things, this reader will view it with a slightly cocked eyebrow and will wait for someone else to report it before getting all excited.

missionhockey21
12-12-2008, 03:50 PM
It was a lazy mistake. He should have called the team, even for a perfunctory non-comment.
It was lazy reading on the part of Reds fans. I saw words like "source" and "rumor" and I didn't think done deal no matter what the quote said.

I didn't exactly see Hal etch it on a stone tablet and proclaim it as a truth greater than grass being green or the sun bringing light to our days. But hey, if some want to not read the entire story and just go for the juicy bits, that's their issue.

REDREAD
12-12-2008, 03:51 PM
Actually, if I remember correctly, we paid the Cubs $100 Grand, not the $50K the Cubs paid to draft, although I can't find a specific reference to that number. I doubt it was a dollar for dollar exchange. What would be in it for the Reds to help out a division rival for nothing?

That's how I remember it too.

My guess is that Hal left out a word. He probably meant to say "presumably more than the $X the Reds paid to select him". You all can grill him for that now :lol:

Hal's a good guy in my book. I'm going to miss him when he retires. He takes the time to read and answer his emails. My guess is that he takes some of the emails a little bit more personal than he should. Let's try to remember that Hal grew up in an era which was more polite than the internet age.

I'd rather Hal report everything he hears from his sources in the offseason than to sit on it, out of fear of it blowing up in his face.

RedlegNation
12-12-2008, 03:55 PM
The only thing I find unusual here is that anyone reads Hal's stuff anymore.

Yeah, Hal's day has come and gone. Kinda sad to watch.

M2
12-12-2008, 03:58 PM
It was lazy reading on the part of Reds fans. I saw words like "source" and "rumor" and I didn't think done deal no matter what the quote said.

I didn't exactly see Hal etch it on a stone tablet and proclaim it as a truth greater than grass being green or the sun bringing light to our days. But hey, if some want to not read the entire story and just go for the juicy bits, that's their issue.

I saw a declarative money quote too. Honestly there wasn't much to read. It was flimsy and under-reported. Dude's paid to do a job, part of that job is making follow up calls to verify the information he's being fed.

Put it this way. I've benched writers for a lot less.

RedlegNation
12-12-2008, 03:59 PM
Let's try to remember that Hal grew up in an era which was more polite than the internet age.

No doubt that is true. But he also grew up in an era when the newspaper was king and no one had any outlet to challenge anything he wrote. It's a good thing that that has changed.

If you are going to make errors, you are going to be challenged nowadays. Maybe people think that is a bad thing, but I don't. I think it's one of the (few?) strengths of the blogosphere, in particular.

M2
12-12-2008, 04:04 PM
Let's try to remember that Hal grew up in an era which was more polite than the internet age.

Don't kid yourself, newspapers are one of the crudest, booziest businesses going (or at least they were for better than a century).

If Hal had turned that sort of tripe in when he was getting started there's a decent chance a copy editor would have been chasing him around the bullpen with a broken bottle.

westofyou
12-12-2008, 04:19 PM
Don't kid yourself, newspapers are one of the crudest, booziest businesses going (or at least they were for better than a century).

If Hal had turned that sort of tripe in when he was getting started there's a decent chance a copy editor would have been chasing him around the bullpen with a broken bottle.

So true, when there were 5-7 dailies in your area and you phoned it in you were working for the Eastern Hills Journal after that.

wheels
12-12-2008, 06:39 PM
I'm more stumped by the people that go out of their way to smear the guy.

It's one thing to drop a few snarky comments after reading an article, but it's another thing altogether to carry a serious personal grudge against a guy that we don't even really pay to read.

Maybe I just have a soft spot for the man, I don't care.