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View Full Version : Homer Bailey's Mechanics (c/o Driveline Mechanics)



danforsman
12-12-2008, 01:46 PM
I hope Kenny Williams doesn't read this (http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/12/11/690239/pitching-mechanics-homer-b).

lollipopcurve
12-12-2008, 01:57 PM
Interesting. It should be added that Bailey has never had a significant arm injury. Doesn't mean it won't happen, of course, but given the apocalyptic evaluation given here you'd think his arm would have detached by now.

I do agree that he's got an awful lot going on in his arm swing. I will say the ball comes out of his hand very easily -- there does not appear to be a lot of effort in his delivery, though this may be illusory.

Fascinating that his stuff compares best to Scott Baker's. Seems to me it might be valuable for Homer to watch about 5 of Baker's good starts. That kid has improved over time, and he wins with hard stuff, though it isn't top-tier hard stuff.

Great site -- thanks danforsman. I wonder what kind of track record these folks have of forecasting injury/durability.

RedlegNation
12-12-2008, 03:26 PM
I read the linked article earlier, and I had the same thought: I can't believe Bailey has never had any kind of severe arm injury with mechanics as bad as this guy thinks they are.

It's a well-reasoned post, though, and makes me even more worried about Bailey's future.

And if it's accurate, I wonder why the Reds haven't been able to fix this problem, or even if they've tried.

Blitz Dorsey
12-12-2008, 06:30 PM
I'm sure the Reds have tried and that's where all the "he doesn't take well to coaching" talk has come from.

RedEye
12-12-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm sure the Reds have tried and that's where all the "he doesn't take well to coaching" talk has come from.

I was under the impression that past efforts to change his mechanics were one of the reasons why he'd lost velocity. Not sure where I got that impression, but I was under it.

dfs
12-12-2008, 09:45 PM
I was under the impression that before his injuries Mark Prior was deemed to have mechanics that would make him injury free. This implies that Prior was a known injury candidate....is my memory wrong?

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 12:57 PM
I was under the impression that before his injuries Mark Prior was deemed to have mechanics that would make him injury free. This implies that Prior was a known injury candidate....is my memory wrong?

I remember Prior's mechanics praised as superhuman, and he would be injury-free.

Very much so 180 degrees from what's happened to him.

lollipopcurve
12-13-2008, 01:10 PM
It remains to be seen how predictive these kinds of analyses are. There are different evaluators on DriveLine, and it seems they often disagree about what accounts for good/bad mechanics. It's fascinating stuff, but not particularly well presented from a visual perspective (a bunch of videos with accompanying text), at least for the layman.
Pitching is bad for your shoulder, no matter how you do it, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised when people who are great at it are considered to have less-than-optimal deliveries. Put it this way -- when the throwing mechanics of people like Stephen Strasburg, AJ Burnett and Homer Bailey are described as awful, "trainwreck," etc., and these guys are throwing 95+ with massive breaking balls, I have to wonder what it is these guys are doing right that the evaluators do not include in their evaluations.
There's a genetic component as well, apparently, having something to do with muscle fiber.

All in all, seems like a very promising frontier in pitcher evaluation that could go a long way in a few directions.

WMR
12-13-2008, 02:22 PM
In Doug I Trust.

(DOUG I'M PUTTING MY FAITH IN YOU BUDDY!! :pray: )

OnBaseMachine
12-15-2008, 04:46 PM
deberly (Cincinnati): How would you help Homer Bailey's mechanics? Do you agree they are terrible?

Will Carroll: They're not good, but I've never thought his mechanics were a big issue. I'm coming more and more to the idea that mechanics are an issue for youth pitchers, maybe college, because by the time they get to the pros, they're pretty much locked in besides small tweaks. Maybe you can "Roy Halladay" someone, but that's really it. Bailey's coachability and desire have been the issues I've always heard about, all the way back to HS. I think you could change his ball release and get him to pronate. Bailey's one of the guys I look forward to being able to talk to in Cincinnati. How many questions about pronation do you think he's heard from the press? :)

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=556

Boss-Hog
12-15-2008, 05:21 PM
deberly (Cincinnati): How would you help Homer Bailey's mechanics? Do you agree they are terrible?

Will Carroll: They're not good, but I've never thought his mechanics were a big issue. I'm coming more and more to the idea that mechanics are an issue for youth pitchers, maybe college, because by the time they get to the pros, they're pretty much locked in besides small tweaks. Maybe you can "Roy Halladay" someone, but that's really it. Bailey's coachability and desire have been the issues I've always heard about, all the way back to HS. I think you could change his ball release and get him to pronate. Bailey's one of the guys I look forward to being able to talk to in Cincinnati. How many questions about pronation do you think he's heard from the press? :)

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=556
Given that someone with a solid reputation in Will Carroll now reports that he's heard this about Bailey, dating back to high school, can we please put to rest the idea that it's nothing more than Hal McCoy having an axe to grind with him? Not that I'm Hal's biggest fan, but in this case, I think where there's smoke, there's fire.

dougdirt
12-15-2008, 05:35 PM
Given that someone with a solid reputation in Will Carroll now reports that he's heard this about Bailey, dating back to high school, can we please put to rest the idea that it's nothing more than Hal McCoy having an axe to grind with him? Not that I'm Hal's biggest fan, but in this case, I think where there's smoke, there's fire.

Which is fine and all, except that last year there were reports that he finally accepted that he needed some help from his coaches and was very coachable. So while yes he was a pain in the butt in the past, that doesn't mean he still is, which is where some of the issues with McCoy come from when even after reports from AAA suggesting otherwise he was still pounding home that Bailey didn't listen to his coaches despite the fact that his actual coach was saying otherwise.

icehole3
12-15-2008, 05:53 PM
I agree, I thought all that got cleaned up around the same time Walt took over.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 06:48 PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see which Bailey shows up in ST.

The one that seems very entitled (and for no good reason), or the one that's humble, wants a job and has that good kinda "I have a lot to prove to the world" chip on his shoulder?

Spitball
12-15-2008, 07:05 PM
Bailey's mechanics in this clip are really bad and it's little wonder the pitch is so far off target. One item of note, watch his glove arm action. He swings it off, down, and away from his chest. This seriously affects the rotation of the whole body which robs the pitcher of control and velocity. Also, note the stride foot's landing point. That lead arm's big swing causes his landing point to be out of line with his back foot, again robbing him of command and velocity.

Topcat
12-16-2008, 12:01 AM
Homer is a true Wild card for the Red's this comingseason . If he comes in and has head straight and a strong off season program he has the stuff to be a top of the rotation guy coming right out of the gate.

Spitball
12-16-2008, 11:33 AM
Bailey's mechanics in this clip are really bad and it's little wonder the pitch is so far off target. One item of note, watch his glove arm action. He swings it off, down, and away from his chest. This seriously affects the rotation of the whole body which robs the pitcher of control and velocity. Also, note the stride foot's landing point. That lead arm's big swing causes his landing point to be out of line with his back foot, again robbing him of command and velocity.

Compare Bailey's glove arm action to those of Joba Chamberlain's and Phillip Hughes'. Their gloves are tucked into their shoulders which is neccessary for the proper mechanics of rotation of shoulders, torso, and hips all the way through their deliveries. Bailey does not come close to tucking his glove into his shoulder. He has the mechanics one would expect from a position player pushed into emergency duty on the mound.

Chamberlain and Hughes:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/chamberlain-or-hughes-whos-got-better-mechanics/

Bailey:

http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/12/11/690239/pitching-mechanics-homer-b

remdog
12-16-2008, 11:58 AM
As long as Spitball and I've been on this board (almost 18 years total) I've come to trust his analysis to be correct. It's almost always on target.

Spitball, are you a profssional coach somewhere? Collage? High School?

If not, you should be.

Rem

Spitball
12-16-2008, 12:12 PM
As long as Spitball and I've been on this board (almost 18 years total) I've come to trust his analysis to be correct. It's almost always on target.

Spitball, are you a profssional coach somewhere? Collage? High School?

If not, you should be.

Rem

Thanks , Rem, but I gave up high school coaching almost eleven years ago. Coaching is rewarding but not conducive to a stress free, long life.