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View Full Version : Some Non-tenders to consider



schroomytunes
12-13-2008, 02:58 AM
Here are some guys that may interest some of you:

1)Ty Wigginton- this guy bats RH can play 3b/1b/OF although he's not a plus defender. The guy has decent power, and offensive numbers but if he signed with us could he be our LF and occasionally spell Votto at first?

2)Willy Tavares-RH CF plays great defense can steal 60+bases would be the ideal leadoff hitter this team needs, but he had a down year in Colorado as his OBP was fairly low.

3)Clay Hensley-RHSP that Jocketty had interest in earlier in the summer, he's coming back from injury as he only pitched 39 innings of relief last year, but did pitch 180+ in 2006 and had solid numbers. His GB/FB ratio is ideal for GABP, I think he has a good chance of being a RED in 09!

4)Angel Berroa-RH SS- released by the Dodgers, had a nice year a few years back with KC, could be an adequate backup to Gonzo and spell him on occasion, would be relatively cheap.

thoughts?

remdog
12-13-2008, 03:14 AM
Tavaras: Not interested.

Rem

Topcat
12-13-2008, 04:33 AM
Here are some guys that may interest some of you:

1)Ty Wigginton- this guy bats RH can play 3b/1b/OF although he's not a plus defender. The guy has decent power, and offensive numbers but if he signed with us could he be our LF and occasionally spell Votto at first?

2)Willy Tavares-RH CF plays great defense can steal 60+bases would be the ideal leadoff hitter this team needs, but he had a down year in Colorado as his OBP was fairly low.

3)Clay Hensley-RHSP that Jocketty had interest in earlier in the summer, he's coming back from injury as he only pitched 39 innings of relief last year, but did pitch 180+ in 2006 and had solid numbers. His GB/FB ratio is ideal for GABP, I think he has a good chance of being a RED in 09!

4)Angel Berroa-RH SS- released by the Dodgers, had a nice year a few years back with KC, could be an adequate backup to Gonzo and spell him on occasion, would be relatively cheap.

thoughts?

close to list I had on guys I would like , course i added them to the long thread on non tender guys , but it is not about Dusty it is far more pass on Taveras for god's sake!

Jpup
12-13-2008, 04:37 AM
here is the full list according to a post on Fay's blog comments:

SP Lance Cormier
C Jamie Burke
RP Joe Nelson
RP Mario Alvarez
OF Norris Hopper
C Robby Hammock
RP Wil Ledezma
OF Jeff Salazar
RP Chris Britton
OF Justin Christian
RP Takashi Saito
RP Scott Proctor
RP Yhency Brazoban
OF Reggie Abercrombie
SP Daniel Cabrera
RP Denny Bautista
SS Angel Berroa
UTIL Chris Burke
SP Chris Capauno
SP Tim Redding
SP Chuck James
UTIL Ty Wigginton
OF Willy Taveras
C Kevin Cash
RP Clay Hensley
SP Chuck Haeger
DH Jonny Gomes
RP Gary Majewski
RP Matt Belisle
RP Doug Mathis
RP Randy Flores
RP Tyler Johnson
2B Aaron Miles
OF Joey Gathright
RP John Bale
SP Scott Matheison
RP Ambiorix Burgos
2B Argenis Reyes

Homer Bailey
12-13-2008, 05:17 AM
You simply can't put Willy T on the roster because of the man that was hired at manager. It's so sad that the Reds GM has to consider the fact that basically a 5 year old is managing the Reds and you can't afford to put bad players on the roster because he will probably bat them first or second (see Patterson, Janish). Maybe that's a good thing for the Reds? It will convince WJ to not put terrible players on the roster for fear that Dusty will start them?

I know that the Reds have their flaws, and I'm not blaming management for their lack of success in past years, but I don't know if I can handle another season of such unbelievably awful management.

RedlegJake
12-13-2008, 05:25 AM
Not Berroa, please!!! Horrible attitude problems, KC was glad to dump him. Takes it easy on way too many plays, if losing he just packs it in. Really. I hated the guy when he was on the Royals.

Topcat
12-13-2008, 05:48 AM
Not Berroa, please!!! Horrible attitude problems, KC was glad to dump him. Takes it easy on way too many plays, if losing he just packs it in. Really. I hated the guy when he was on the Royals.

But it's the Royals , sorry but that could get any man down over time :eek:

GoReds
12-13-2008, 07:23 AM
I wonder if Daniel Cabrera could make it in the bullpen. He did show flashes last year and always seems to be close to realizing his potential.

WMR
12-13-2008, 07:30 AM
Willy Taveras for leadoff hitter? Are you channeling The Dustinator, by chance?

http://i34.tinypic.com/30svukj.jpg

icehole3
12-13-2008, 07:42 AM
since the Reds are dipping into the dumpster, here's the guys I'd like to be considered

Aaron Miles-2B- Cardinals
Cardinals non-tendered infielder Aaron Miles.
All 42 non-tendered players are now listed below. Miles was non-tendered last year and re-signed to a $1.4 million contract a few weeks later. The Cardinals would probably like to have him back at a modest raise, but they weren't going to risk paying him $2.5 million or so after his best offensive season to date (.317/.355/.398 in 379 at-bats). As loved as he is by some for his scrappiness, it'd be no surprise to see him land a starting job at second base.


Joey Gathright-OF- Royals
Royals non-tendered outfielder Joey Gathright.
Gathright was an asset while hitting .307/.371/.342 in 228 at-bats for the Royals in 2007, but he fell off to .254/.311/.272 in 279 at-bats last season. We could see the speedster ending up in the NL West with the Rockies or Padres. The Reds are another possibility, though they'll probably target Willy Taveras first.



Ty Wigginton-3B- Astros
Astros non-tendered third baseman Ty Wigginton.
The Astros have opted to tender Brandon Backe, Tim Byrdak, Wandy Rodriguez, Geoff Geary, Jose Valverde and Humberto Quintero. Wigginton gets the boot even after hitting .285/.350/.526 in 386 at-bats last season. The Twins are one team that could sign him to play third base, but he'd probably be more valuable in the outfield. The Astros figure to go in search of a cheap third baseman. They do have Geoff Blum, but he's a weak option. They might actually be better off grabbing a shortstop (Juan Uribe?) and moving Miguel Tejada to third base.


Clay Hensley-R- Padres
Padres non-tendered RHP Clay Hensley.
Hensley went 11-10 with a 3.56 ERA in 29 starts for the Padres in 2006, but he hurt his shoulder in 2007 and didn't show his former stuff after coming back last season. He's not hopeless yet, but the Padres weren't going to go to arbitration with him. The Reds are one of the teams that may try to pick him up.

Ron Madden
12-13-2008, 07:53 AM
Good Lord!

That's a scary bunch.

:runaway:

buckeyenut
12-13-2008, 08:08 AM
RP Yhency Brazoban
SP Daniel Cabrera
SS Angel Berroa
UTIL Chris Burke
SP Chris Capauno
SP Tim Redding
UTIL Ty Wigginton
OF Willy Taveras
RP Clay Hensley
DH Jonny Gomes
2B Aaron Miles
OF Joey Gathright

That is the list of guys I'd at least take a look at. I think how Dusty would handle some of these guys is a big issue, but some of these guys could add value at minimal contracts.

joshnky
12-13-2008, 08:27 AM
But it's the Royals , sorry but that could get any man down over time :eek:

I think the Reds and Royals are pretty much in the same class anymore.

Team Clark
12-13-2008, 09:40 AM
since the Reds are dipping into the dumpster, here's the guys I'd like to be considered

Aaron Miles-2B- Cardinals
Cardinals non-tendered infielder Aaron Miles.
All 42 non-tendered players are now listed below. Miles was non-tendered last year and re-signed to a $1.4 million contract a few weeks later. The Cardinals would probably like to have him back at a modest raise, but they weren't going to risk paying him $2.5 million or so after his best offensive season to date (.317/.355/.398 in 379 at-bats). As loved as he is by some for his scrappiness, it'd be no surprise to see him land a starting job at second base.


Joey Gathright-OF- Royals
Royals non-tendered outfielder Joey Gathright.
Gathright was an asset while hitting .307/.371/.342 in 228 at-bats for the Royals in 2007, but he fell off to .254/.311/.272 in 279 at-bats last season. We could see the speedster ending up in the NL West with the Rockies or Padres. The Reds are another possibility, though they'll probably target Willy Taveras first.



Ty Wigginton-3B- Astros
Astros non-tendered third baseman Ty Wigginton.
The Astros have opted to tender Brandon Backe, Tim Byrdak, Wandy Rodriguez, Geoff Geary, Jose Valverde and Humberto Quintero. Wigginton gets the boot even after hitting .285/.350/.526 in 386 at-bats last season. The Twins are one team that could sign him to play third base, but he'd probably be more valuable in the outfield. The Astros figure to go in search of a cheap third baseman. They do have Geoff Blum, but he's a weak option. They might actually be better off grabbing a shortstop (Juan Uribe?) and moving Miguel Tejada to third base.


Clay Hensley-R- Padres
Padres non-tendered RHP Clay Hensley.
Hensley went 11-10 with a 3.56 ERA in 29 starts for the Padres in 2006, but he hurt his shoulder in 2007 and didn't show his former stuff after coming back last season. He's not hopeless yet, but the Padres weren't going to go to arbitration with him. The Reds are one of the teams that may try to pick him up.

I concur captain.

Raisor
12-13-2008, 09:42 AM
2)Willy Tavares-RH CF plays great defense can steal 60+bases would be the ideal leadoff hitter this team needs, but he had a down year in Colorado as his OBP was fairly low.




The words "Willy Tavares" and "ideal leadoff hitter" should never be in the same sentence unless "is not an" is placed inbetween.

As in: Willy Tavares is not an ideal leadoff hitter.

Raisor
12-13-2008, 09:45 AM
C Kevin Cash



Haven't the Reds traded for this guy like 10 different times in the past few years? Though it might have been for his brother "PileO"

RedLegSuperStar
12-13-2008, 09:46 AM
I am only interested in Joey Gathright, Jonny Gomes, Charlie Haeger, Danny Cabrera, and Clay Hansley

Will M
12-13-2008, 09:55 AM
Wigginton at 3B with EE to LF helps the Reds a lot. why give up Bailey for Dye? didn't wigginton hit 25+ homers last year?

dfs
12-13-2008, 10:17 AM
Wigginton at 3B with EE to LF helps the Reds a lot. why give up Bailey for Dye? didn't wigginton hit 25+ homers last year?

Wigginton has 7 years in. How is he a non-tender and not your garden variety free agent? It seems odd to me.

By far the star that has fallen the furthest the fastest here is capuano. Last off season we had folks talking about trading real talent for him. This off season he's been cut and is available to the highest bidder.

Jpup
12-13-2008, 10:21 AM
Haven't the Reds traded for this guy like 10 different times in the past few years? Though it might have been for his brother "PileO"

considering the Red Sox don't have a single catcher, I am surprised they let him go. I guess they did not think much of him. They have plenty of cash anyway.

Jpup
12-13-2008, 10:22 AM
By far the star that has fallen the furthest the fastest here is capuano. Last off season we had folks talking about trading real talent for him. This off season he's been cut and is available to the highest bidder.

He's hurt and will not pitch in '09. That's why.

pahster
12-13-2008, 10:29 AM
Wiggington might be a good target, but he struggles to get on base against righties (OBP of around .320 against them). He stills hits for power against them and he kills lefties.

blumj
12-13-2008, 10:36 AM
considering the Red Sox don't have a single catcher, I am surprised they let him go. I guess they did not think much of him. They have plenty of cash anyway.
Cash is a nice defensive catcher. But he can't hit at all. No reason to pay arbitration price for that.

Team Clark
12-13-2008, 12:07 PM
Wiggington might be a good target, but he struggles to get on base against righties (OBP of around .320 against them). He stills hits for power against them and he kills lefties.

Cantu redeux. Which isn't so bad.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 02:00 PM
The words "Willy Tavares" and "ideal leadoff hitter" should never be in the same sentence unless "is not an" is placed inbetween.

As in: Willy Tavares is not an ideal leadoff hitter.

That's Nobel Prize material right there.

I'm not sure on the category, however.




Raisor, I know you're not high on Tavares, but how do you feel about Joey Gathright? I would assume you'd think even less of him.

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 03:20 PM
I hope I'm not ruining anybody's day, but mine has suffered so the rest of you must as well


They are most interested in Willy Taveras. In fact, Walt Jocketty called Taveras agent Saturday morning. “I was the first call. He’s not going to sign on the first,” Jocketty said. “I think it’s going to take some time. I let him know there’s interest. We think he could fill that center field/leadoff role.” Taveras, non-tendered by Colorado, is only 26. He hit .251 with an .308 on-base percentage last year. He led the majors with 68 steals in the 75 attempts. He was much better at the plate in 2007, hitting .320 with a .367 on-base. He lacks power (career slugging of .337).

Here is the rest of his post:


--They are also interested in the Ty Wigginton, non-tendered by Houston. But, unlike the case of Taveras, there’s no opening at Wigginton’s natural position. “It kind of complicates things,” Jocketty said. “It involves possibly moving Edwin to left. We’ve got to talk about. We didn’t expect him to be non-tendered.” Wigginton, 31, hit .285/.350/.526 overall. His numbers against left-handers were off the charts: .340/.424/.631.


--They are also interested in the Aaron Miles, but only if Jerry Hairston Jr. doesn’t re-sign. “I’ve had Aaron before,” Jocketty said. Miles was non-tendered by St. Louis. Miles, 31, hit .317/.355/.382 last year. He played second, third, shortstop and all three outfield positions. He even pitched a scoreless inning.

RedsManRick
12-13-2008, 03:22 PM
Either Jocketty doesn't listen to those stat guys he's got doing projections or simply has no clue about how horrific an offensive player Taveras is...

Mario-Rijo
12-13-2008, 03:23 PM
I hope I'm not ruining anybody's day, but mine has suffered so the rest of you must as well

They are most interested in Willy Taveras. In fact, Walt Jocketty called Taveras agent Saturday morning. “I was the first call. He’s not going to sign on the first,” Jocketty said. “I think it’s going to take some time. I let him know there’s interest. We think he could fill that center field/leadoff role.” Taveras, non-tendered by Colorado, is only 26. He hit .251 with an .308 on-base percentage last year. He led the majors with 68 steals in the 75 attempts. He was much better at the plate in 2007, hitting .320 with a .367 on-base. He lacks power (career slugging of .337).

Frankly I imagine everyone knew this was coming.

WMR
12-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Either Jocketty doesn't listen to those scout guys he's got doing projections or simply has no clue about how horrific an offensive player Taveras is...

:(

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Either Jocketty doesn't listen to those scout guys he's got doing projections or simply has no clue about how horrific an offensive player Taveras is...

Speed + CF - OBP = Dusty Ideal Leadoff Hitter

I am already hearing that Willie is about to propose to Dusty's daughter

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Frankly I imagine everyone knew this was coming.

We knew he was interested, but did he ever say before he wanted him as the CF/Leadoff hitter? Plus he was the first one to call him, so he must be very interested.

Mario-Rijo
12-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Speed + CF - OBP = Dusty Ideal Leadoff Hitter

I am already hearing that Willie is about to propose to Dusty's daughter

Maybe if enough people ask Dusty if Taveras is dating his daughter at Redsfest they won't sign him. :D

nate
12-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Walt saying Taveras would be a good leadoff hitter seriously harshes my buzz.

jesusfan
12-13-2008, 03:27 PM
My guess is Jock goes the cheap route and signs Taveras and Wigginton... He will move Edwin to LF and Wigg will play 3rd. Not saying I like it, just that I think that is where we are headed...

Taveras-CF
Phillips-2nd
Votto-1st
Encarnacion-LF
Bruce-RF
Wigginton-3rd
Hernandez-C
Gonzo/Kepp-S

RedsManRick
12-13-2008, 03:27 PM
Seriously, there has to be something we as a community can do to stop this before it happens... right?

Mario-Rijo
12-13-2008, 03:29 PM
We knew he was interested, but did he ever say before he wanted him as the CF/Leadoff hitter? Plus he was the first one to call him, so he must be very interested.

All it took was some reading between the lines. Despite the fact that his OBP% wasn't alledgedly to Walt's liking, he also felt he needed that type of guy for Dusty. I'm sure Dusty was adamant that he needed that type of guy in CF/ leadoff.

Mario-Rijo
12-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Seriously, there has to be something we as a community can do to stop this before it happens... right?

Go to Redsfest and Protest?

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 03:36 PM
All it took was some reading between the lines. Despite the fact that his OBP% wasn't alledgedly to Walt's liking, he also felt he needed that type of guy for Dusty. I'm sure Dusty was adamant that he needed that type of guy in CF/ leadoff.

Maybe I was just optimistic that Walt wanted him as a 4th OF (which I know Dusty wouldn't use him as). But hearing Walt say that he is a good CF/Leadoff hitter diminishes my thoughts on WJ, especially after hearing about them having a stats team in place.

WMR
12-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Seriously, there has to be something we as a community can do to stop this before it happens... right?

Take advantage of the new tag feature? :D

LoganBuck
12-13-2008, 03:38 PM
The horror.

The sheer horror.

He talks about having a statistical team, and then takes steps in this direction. Oh yeah, that is a heckuva stats team.

The Cincinnati Reds Department of Statistical Review
Chairman: Jeff Brantley
Marty Brennaman
Hal McCoy

Tom Servo
12-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Seriously, there has to be something we as a community can do to stop this before it happens... right?
Rename Redszone "Do Not Want Willy Taveras Zone"?

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Thats funny, but at the sametime not funny at all.

So who would be the better leadoff hitter this year? Willie T or Jerry Harrisston?

Mario-Rijo
12-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Maybe I was just optimistic that Walt wanted him as a 4th OF (which I know Dusty wouldn't use him as). But hearing Walt say that he is a good CF/Leadoff hitter diminishes my thoughts on WJ, especially after hearing about them having a stats team in place.

I think we all hoped that was the case but most knew deep down that it wasn't. Walt did a good sell job to the fans on the Taveras situation by stating what many felt was the obvious flaw in Taveras' game, his OBP%. But if you were looking at the signs it was real easy to see that Walt was in fact seriously looking at him for a starting if not majority platooning job. It will have to be a majority if they get him because he isn't likely to sign a deal unless he gets most of the starts out there. It's the reason he had problems in Colorado with the manager, not enough playing time and he had over 500 PA's.

WMR
12-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Good news: There is something else you can do as a responsible RedsZoner.

Join the "We Don't Want Willy Taveras" social group.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/group.php?groupid=1

Heath
12-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Aaron Miles = Ryan Freel on the cheap.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 04:02 PM
Seriously, there has to be something we as a community can do to stop this before it happens... right?

Sure, stop going to games.

Stop buying Reds merchandise.


If the Reds cannot make money off us poor saps (aka the fans), then they cannot afford to field a team.

It's a boycott to the Nth degree.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Good news: There is something else you can do as a responsible RedsZoner.

Join the "We Don't Want Willy Taveras" social group.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/group.php?groupid=1

How long until we finally get a published list of the RedsZone 10 as a social group?

Rounding Third
12-13-2008, 04:08 PM
Aaron Miles = Ryan Freel on the cheap.

Miles doesn't really play the outfield and Freel has better speed and higher OBP. But he would be a lot cheaper.

Raisor
12-13-2008, 08:03 PM
How long until we finally get a published list of the RedsZone 10 as a social group?

First rule of the RZ 10 is that you DON'T TALK ABOUT THE RZ10!

Topcat
12-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Good news: There is something else you can do as a responsible RedsZoner.

Join the "We Don't Want Willy Taveras" social group.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/group.php?groupid=1

Rep to you willymo I unloaded and vented and joined lol.