PDA

View Full Version : Specific Action Plan



Benihana
12-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Now that the meetings are over and the catching situation has been resolved, what specific moves would you make for the remainder of the offseason? Signings, trades, etc. Try to be as realistic (and specific) as possible.

I'll offer mine later today...

Jpup
12-14-2008, 12:01 PM
Now that the meetings are over and the catching situation has been resolved, what specific moves would you make for the remainder of the offseason? Signings, trades, etc. Try to be as realistic (and specific) as possible.

I'll offer mine later today...

Get a shortstop, another starter, a center fielder, and a left fielder.

Trade something for Elvis Andrus and Eric Hurley. Sign Milton Bradley. Decide is Dickerson is your guy in center and if not, you need to get someone that can play there everyday.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 12:31 PM
I kinda feel like the time for us to wish for certain things is over. I have to believe that the course is damn near set. I don't know how we don't end up with Taveras as much as we all hate to admit it to ourselves. The only question now is how stupid will the F.O. people be when agreeing on years on his contract 1 or more (I think 2 is almost a gaurantee, sadly) I also don't see us getting the SS that makes sense for us. If we do sign Taveras I suspect Hairston will sign elsewhere. I think Wigginton makes some sense later on down the road but he's not the answer and I don't believe he will come cheap enough for the Reds not to look around long enough that the Twins/someone else who needs him more will sign him. Aaron Miles may end up on the roster but I'm hoping Hairston drags his situation out enough that Miles re-signs with St. Louis.

So this is already a given IMO:

Taveras CF
BP 2B
Votto 1B
??? LF
Bruce RF
EE 3B
Hernandez C
Gonzo SS

Dickerson OF
Kepp IF
Rosales UT
Hopper/Other OF
Hanigan C

So who sits in LF? I think I still expect something to get done with Colorado for Atkins who is younger and cheaper than Dye (in terms of $$$'s anyway). And cheaper is the key for Walt, but it looks as though on the bright side that if we can hang around until the deadline we might be able to acquire a player to give us a decent chance of winning the W/C but unless it's a GG SS who is a beast at the top of the lineup we can forget the playoffs for another season.

But 2010 could really prove to be a good one for us, so let's hope Dusty doesn't screw our staff over trying to make the playoffs a reality in '09 because I'm hoping Baker is out the door before s/t '10. That's right even Taveras has a bright side, perhaps he's enough to get Baker canned.

Will M
12-14-2008, 12:35 PM
I kinda feel like the time for us to wish for certain things is over.

i was thinking the same thing.
walt wants hairston or taveras for CF.
walt wants dye for LF with certain others as a fallback plan.
walt doesn't seem to think we need a better shortstop.

what i want & what we'll get are very far apart.

jojo
12-14-2008, 12:37 PM
All I know is that it's not Dusty's team.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 12:45 PM
All I know is that it's not Dusty's team.

Oh yes it is, just look at the desired acquisitions.

dougdirt
12-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Oh yes it is, just look at the desired acquisitions.

If they lose, Dusty says its not his team.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 12:47 PM
If they lose, Dusty says its not his team.

Good luck with that this year Toothpick Jones.

jojo
12-14-2008, 12:55 PM
All kidding aside, I think from recent comments made by Jocketty, the plan is to fill the empty spots with guys with left field hopefully being a right-handed guy that does all right with counting stats. Then they'll expect the Reds rotation and the young guys to carry them to the playoffs.

RedLegSuperStar
12-14-2008, 12:58 PM
Trade Homer Bailey, Josh Roenicke, and Shaun Cumberland to the White Sox for Jermaine Dye and cash.

Sign Joey Gathright to platoon with Dickerson in CF.

Sign Jonny Gomes.

Sign Charlie Haegar to a minor league deal.

Trade Daryl Thompson to the Marlins for Robert Andino.

Sign Daniel Cabrera.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 02:16 PM
Trade Homer Bailey, Josh Roenicke, and Shaun Cumberland to the White Sox for Jermaine Dye and cash.

Sign Joey Gathright to platoon with Dickerson in CF.

Sign Jonny Gomes.

Sign Charlie Haegar to a minor league deal.

Trade Daryl Thompson to the Marlins for Robert Andino.

Sign Daniel Cabrera.

The Dye deal I might do but I would 1st I'd swap out Roenicke for Watson and send them Eymann (IF) instead of Cumberland (OF) and see if that get's it done.

I'd sign Gathright to a minor league deal, he's at least got the upside that Hopper doesn't and if neither make the 25 man that's great. We could use Gathright in AAA if nothing else.

Gomes, no thanks he's a good RH power bat off the bench vs. LHH's but beyond that he doesn't offer much. Is Thames a better defender? I could see him as more versatile fit although he doesn't get on base as well IIRC.

Haeger, minor league deal, why not? Cabrera minor league deal, sure. Thompson for Andino, no thanks. I like Andino (Janish-esque) well enough to give him a look see but Thompson is definitely overpaying.

OnBaseMachine
12-14-2008, 02:18 PM
Why trade a good prospect like Thompson for Andino when Andino can be had for a warm body with options remaining?

Benihana
12-14-2008, 04:28 PM
1. Sign Ty Wigginton to 1-yr deal
2. Sign Rafael Furcal to a 3-year/$40MM contract (risky, but at least it's only 3 years)
3. Trade Alex Gonzalez to Detroit for PTBNL (shed salary)
4. Trade Joey Votto and Danny Dorn to Toronto for Alex Rios (Votto returns to his hometown and gets to stick at 1B)
5. Trade Homer Bailey and David Weathers to KC for David DeJesus (who is expendable thanks to Crisp. KC is looking for bullpen help because of that trade.)
6. Trade Danny Richar and Shaun Cumberland to Florida for Robert Andino (with Furcal on the roster, I'd rather carry a backup glove at SS than 2B.)

SS Furcal
CF DeJesus
RF Rios
LF Bruce
1B Encarnacion
2B Phillips
3B Wigginton
C Hernandez

The departures of Gonzalez and Weathers should save a little bit of money for the signings of Wigginton and Furcal. If Furcal goes down, you have Andino (or Janish) to play SS- with that offense around him, you can afford to have an all field-no stick SS. Next year, assuming Frazier and Alonso are ready, you shed the payrolls of Wigginton (FA) and Encarnacion (trade for young pitching and/or catching). Furcal comes off the books about same time as Cordero, Harang, and Arroyo, right when Bruce, Volquez and Cueto should be in line for big raises.

2010 lineup:

SS Furcal
CF DeJesus
RF Rios
LF Bruce
3B Frazier
1B Alonso
2B Phillips
C Hanigan/someone acquired in EdE trade?

Jpup
12-14-2008, 04:43 PM
I would not trade Votto for Rios straight up much less with anything else.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 05:47 PM
1. Sign Ty Wigginton to 1-yr deal
2. Sign Rafael Furcal to a 3-year/$40MM contract (risky, but at least it's only 3 years)
3. Trade Alex Gonzalez to Detroit for PTBNL (shed salary)
4. Trade Joey Votto and Danny Dorn to Toronto for Alex Rios (Votto returns to his hometown and gets to stick at 1B)
5. Trade Homer Bailey and David Weathers to KC for David DeJesus (who is expendable thanks to Crisp. KC is looking for bullpen help because of that trade.)
6. Trade Danny Richar and Shaun Cumberland to Florida for Robert Andino (with Furcal on the roster, I'd rather carry a backup glove at SS than 2B.)

SS Furcal
CF DeJesus
RF Rios
LF Bruce
1B Encarnacion
2B Phillips
3B Wigginton
C Hernandez

The departures of Gonzalez and Weathers should save a little bit of money for the signings of Wigginton and Furcal. If Furcal goes down, you have Andino (or Janish) to play SS- with that offense around him, you can afford to have an all field-no stick SS. Next year, assuming Frazier and Alonso are ready, you shed the payrolls of Wigginton (FA) and Encarnacion (trade for young pitching and/or catching). Furcal comes off the books about same time as Cordero, Harang, and Arroyo, right when Bruce, Volquez and Cueto should be in line for big raises.

2010 lineup:

SS Furcal
CF DeJesus
RF Rios
LF Bruce
3B Frazier
1B Alonso
2B Phillips
C Hanigan/someone acquired in EdE trade?

I don't do the Votto deal either.

Furcal we both think is risky however he's already turned down a 3 yr deal, plus he still has 3-4 teams in on him currently. He's gonna get all he wants and maybe more.

Detroit has already filled their SS vacancy (Everett), besides Gonzo is probably not gonne be tradeable. Also they turned down Jack Wilson due to his salary, they have $$ issues. If were gonna eat most of Gonzo's dollars we might as well see if he's fit to retire instead and eat none (assuming his contract is insured).

I'm not sure we could get DeJesus for that but if so I would probably give that a go.

Richar alone for Andino probably get's done but if not I'd prefer to send them another piece other than an OF as we are very slim there in the minors. Andino's only real worth however for that deal is too see if he can hit well enough and I kinda doubt it and if so he's not really much better than Janish. Not to say I wouldn't still do it just don't know that he's worth any 2 players and if he is i'd prefer no OF's but it's not necc. a deal breaker depending on his scouting report.

Chip R
12-15-2008, 10:09 AM
If they lose, Dusty says its not his team.


Dusty says something like that this year, he's going to be back coaching his kid's little league team.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 10:38 PM
I would not trade Votto for Rios straight up much less with anything else.

I dunno.

I think I'd even throw in Homer Bailey and Drew Stubbs with Joey Votto for Alex Rios.

Alex Rios would definitely change the state of the Reds.

Bailey and Stubbs, not so much. Votto, maybe.

OnBaseMachine
12-15-2008, 11:12 PM
I dunno.

I think I'd even throw in Homer Bailey and Drew Stubbs with Joey Votto for Alex Rios.

Alex Rios would definitely change the state of the Reds.

Bailey and Stubbs, not so much. Votto, maybe.

Joey Votto has a career OPS of .879 and OPS+ of 124. Alex Rios has a career OPS of .793 and OPS+ of 106. I like Rios, but if anyone is throwing in prospects then it should be the Blue Jays. No matter how much you dislike them, throwing in Bailey and Stubbs doesn't make much sense for the Reds.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 11:31 PM
Joey Votto has a career OPS of .879 and OPS+ of 124. Alex Rios has a career OPS of .793 and OPS+ of 106. I like Rios, but if anyone is throwing in prospects then it should be the Blue Jays. No matter how much you dislike them, throwing in Bailey and Stubbs doesn't make much sense for the Reds.

Votto has what, 1 MLB season?

Law of averages tells me his career OPS will most likely go South, as well as the OPS+.

Rios, however, is more of a known/established commodity.


The deal is essentially Rios for Votto, with my lack of fondness for Bailey and Stubbs throwing them in the deal to get it done.

OnBaseMachine
12-15-2008, 11:36 PM
Votto has what, 1 MLB season?

Law of averages tells me his career OPS will most likely go South, as well as the OPS+.

Rios, however, is more of a known/established commodity.


The deal is essentially Rios for Votto, with my lack of fondness for Bailey and Stubbs throwing them in the deal to get it done.

So you think Votto's OPS will go south during his prime years? Why do you think that?

As for that last part... wow. Hey, I don't like these two prospects so I'll just toss them into a deal just to get rid of them.

Topcat
12-15-2008, 11:46 PM
i was thinking the same thing.
walt wants hairston or taveras for CF.
walt wants dye for LF with certain others as a fallback plan.
walt doesn't seem to think we need a better shortstop.

what i want & what we'll get are very far apart.

Fire Dusty and bring in progressive thinkers to the Red's. Stop getting band aid players to cover seasons till the youth develops. Get a catcher with up side and a young shortstop to grow with the youth of the team going forward. Move EE to left field or to first and move Votto to left. Find a way to a cf 'er with 3 years left in tank at an affordable cost.

REDREAD
12-16-2008, 10:14 AM
i was thinking the same thing.
walt wants hairston or taveras for CF.
walt wants dye for LF with certain others as a fallback plan.
walt doesn't seem to think we need a better shortstop.

what i want & what we'll get are very far apart.

I think Walt feels trapped with Gonzo, who can't be moved. I think that is hindering getting a SS that costs money.
Harrison as a cheap insurance policy at SS makes a lot of sense (if Harrison signs cheap).

I wouldn't have minded signing Furcal, even though that had risks.
I can't really think of any remaining FAs that are likely to be good values for this team and really excite me.

What do I think will happen?

Homer is traded for a position player, hopefully a young one, but maybe not.
Taverez is signed
We lose out on the bidding for Wigginton.
EdE stays at 3b next year.
The Reds make one more trade for a position player in which they take on significant salary, thus finishing up the budget.

Will M
12-16-2008, 11:57 AM
The pitching staff is set.
Eight position players are set: Hernadez, Hanigan, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger, EE, Dickerson & Bruce.
That leaves spots for five position players:

1. Sign Taveras to a one year incentive laden deal. Tell him that if he plays like 2007 he'll leadoff and play CF. If he plays like 2008 he'll be a pinch runner/defensive replacement. If the 2nd is true he would still help the Reds. He won't cost much. We can afford to carry a guy like this as we have an extra bat (Owings)

2. Sign Wiggington to a 2 year deal for $12M. Play him in LF. When Dorn arrives this year or next we can use Wiggington's flexibility to play other positions.

3. find a cheap LH hitter who can play the outfield and pinch hit

4. since we still have just about all our trade chips use them to find a shortstop.
Hardy
Tulowitski
Aybar or Izturis
Escobar
Barmes
Elvis from Texas
Ronnie Cedeno
There are actually a lot of guys who could be available.

5. 25th man is open for competition - Rosales, Castillo, Richar, Nix, etc

TRF
12-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Yeah, Joey Votto's history in the major and minor leagues is filled with failure.

wait...

nevermind. I thought failure was French for extremely successful.

Highlifeman21
12-16-2008, 04:46 PM
So you think Votto's OPS will go south during his prime years? Why do you think that?

As for that last part... wow. Hey, I don't like these two prospects so I'll just toss them into a deal just to get rid of them.

I hope Votto's OPS doesn't go South during his prime years, but he really only has 1 year of MLB service, so while I'd love to project him to improve, at best I only want to project him to maintain. More realistically, I'd expect a slight dip for 2009. But that's just my realism, bordering on pessimism.

And as for Bailey and Stubbs, I'm hoping that some GM might still see some of that 1st Round Draft Pick fool's gold shine on each of them, and overvalue them, and essentially get excited that both of them are included in a deal. That's my logic. It's not that I want to get rid of them just to get rid of them (well, ok maybe a little... ), but it's more that I don't see them helping us on the MLB level, so why not include them in a deal that could potentially help us on the MLB level.

If those 2 help us get Alex Rios (who will definitely help us on the MLB level), then wouldn't you make that trade?

Rojo
12-16-2008, 07:42 PM
As for that last part... wow. Hey, I don't like these two prospects so I'll just toss them into a deal just to get rid of them.

Spleen-venting is the essential ingredient to any trade.

Rojo
12-16-2008, 07:45 PM
I think Walt feels trapped with Gonzo, who can't be moved.

As do we all.

Jpup
12-18-2008, 03:21 AM
Here's a crazy idea. Move Brandon Phillips to 3rd, sign Orlando Hudson, move EE to LF. I would also consider Hudson to play center if he was interested. I'm sure Phillips would throw a fit, but the Reds IF defense would be much improved.