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View Full Version : Jeff Fisher: "Wha Happened??"



WMR
12-14-2008, 04:10 PM
How do you not kick the 49 yard field goal????

Your kicker has kicked one from 60 yards in his career...

he is 4 for 4 on the day...

wow that is bad coaching. :eek:

:pimp:

jmac
12-14-2008, 04:44 PM
How do you not kick the 49 yard field goal????

Your kicker has kicked one from 60 yards in his career...

he is 4 for 4 on the day...

wow that is bad coaching. :eek:

That one certainly baffled me as well.
Side note: With Shaub and Slaton, I cant imagine too many teams in playoff hunt wanting to face texans right now. They are a team on the rise.

Blimpie
12-14-2008, 05:13 PM
That one certainly baffled me as well.
Side note: With Shaub and Slaton, I cant imagine too many teams in playoff hunt wanting to face texans right now. They are a team on the rise.Andre Johnson will be the best WR in football the next several years. Their TE Owen Daniels is no slouch, either.

That offense might be scary next year.

redsfanmia
12-14-2008, 05:58 PM
The Texans have been a team on the rise for a few years now, so I will believe it when I see it.

IslandRed
12-14-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm one of those rare non-Titans fans around here, so I wasn't displeased to see them lose, but I bet they don't make that call if they weren't sitting on a two-game lead in the AFC at the time.

Dom Heffner
12-15-2008, 08:09 AM
They are a candidate to get knocked out early in the playoffs. That offense is about exciting as Pittsburgh's.

cumberlandreds
12-15-2008, 09:36 AM
How do you not kick the 49 yard field goal????

Your kicker has kicked one from 60 yards in his career...

he is 4 for 4 on the day...

wow that is bad coaching. :eek:

:pimp:

The only reason you could give would be the wind. Would he have been kicking agianst that much of a wind? If it wasn't an all out gale force wind then I would say a very poor decision.

HBP
12-15-2008, 11:29 AM
If Collins makes a decent throw, it's a TD and they win.


Fisher said the decision he regretted was not taking the wind in the fourth quarter instead of the third. Fisher said he knew the kicker's range precisely and "it was not within his range.''

Link (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20081215/COLUMNIST0201/812150340/1027)

Screwball
12-15-2008, 05:00 PM
Fisher said the decision he regretted was not taking the wind in the fourth quarter instead of the third. Fisher said he knew the kicker's range precisely and "it was not within his range.''

Yeah, in his press conference Jeff Fisher said that he had been watching Bironas kick before the game and he was consistently missing from that distance toward that end of the field. Fisher got more specific, saying it was at least "5 yards" out of his range.

Also, good point on the Collins incompletion, HBP. He had a guy open, and while it was a tough pass to complete, he should've connected. If he does and leads him in stride, it's an easy 6. Next week's game against Pittsburgh should be an interesting one, defensively anyway. I'm gonna go ahead and predict a final score of 5-2 (Steelers with a last second field goal to win it ;)).

Marc D
12-15-2008, 05:47 PM
VandenBosch(sp?) and Haynesworth both out for the regular season so that hurts big time.

I don't think Tenn could beat Pittsburgh right now with them but without them they are really up against it. I can see Pitt completely shutting down the run and terrorizing Collins.

Pittsburgh might be flat after a big emotional(and physical) game vs Baltimore but I wouldn't bet against that team right now.

HBP
12-15-2008, 06:08 PM
The Steelers game will be very interesting. If the Titans lose, I also think they'll go on to lose vs. the Colts the next week. Going from 10-0 to 12-4 entering the playoffs will be quite the disappointment even though they get the 1st round bye.

deltachi8
12-17-2008, 01:00 AM
The Steelers never play well in Tenn. Fisher is a hell of a coach and as much as it pains me to say, knows how to beat them.

Jpup
12-22-2008, 10:41 AM
:jump::roll::rockband::wave::lol::clap::laugh:

The best team in football just keeps getting it done despite no respect from anyone. That's the way we like it anyway. 6 Pro Bowl selections, 13-2 record so far, the best coach in football, the best defense in football, and you never hear much about them nationally. I love it.

I also love how people that don't watch them play are so good at commenting on their ability. :lol:

redsfanmia
12-22-2008, 06:14 PM
:jump::roll::rockband::wave::lol::clap::laugh:

The best team in football just keeps getting it done despite no respect from anyone. That's the way we like it anyway. 6 Pro Bowl selections, 13-2 record so far, the best coach in football, the best defense in football, and you never hear much about them nationally. I love it.

I also love how people that don't watch them play are so good at commenting on their ability. :lol:

I like Fisher but to call him the best coach in football is a stretch, top five i will give you though.

Jpup
12-22-2008, 06:46 PM
I like Fisher but to call him the best coach in football is a stretch, top five i will give you though.

The best and it's not really even close.

redsfanmia
12-22-2008, 07:57 PM
The best and it's not really even close.

Coach Dungy has a 10 year play-off run most in league history. But I you are partial to you man who is dreamy by the way.

Bip Roberts
12-22-2008, 07:58 PM
The best and it's not really even close.

:laugh:

SteelSD
12-22-2008, 10:02 PM
:jump::roll::rockband::wave::lol::clap::laugh:

The best team in football just keeps getting it done despite no respect from anyone. That's the way we like it anyway. 6 Pro Bowl selections, 13-2 record so far, the best coach in football, the best defense in football, and you never hear much about them nationally. I love it.

I also love how people that don't watch them play are so good at commenting on their ability. :lol:

The best defense? Please.

Jpup
12-23-2008, 02:54 AM
The best defense? Please.

Points Against
1. Tennessee Titans 211
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 223
3. Baltimore Ravens 237

goreds2
12-23-2008, 06:22 AM
Points Against
1. Tennessee Titans 211
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 223
3. Baltimore Ravens 237


Total Defense (YPG) Complete List
1. Pittsburgh Steelers 244.7
2. Baltimore Ravens 262.1
3. Philadelphia Eagles 272.7
4. Washington Redskins 284.1
5. Tennessee Titans 287.2

Passing (YPG) Complete List
1. Pittsburgh Steelers 166.1
2. Philadelphia Eagles 180.1
3. Baltimore Ravens 183.2
4. Dallas Cowboys 189.1
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 190.1

Rushing (YPG) Complete List
1. Minnesota Vikings 73.0
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 78.5
3. Baltimore Ravens 78.9
4. Chicago Bears 91.3
5. Tennessee Titans 91

gosteelers2

Redsfaithful
12-23-2008, 06:44 AM
I think I'm a Titans fan after seeing Lendale White stomping on a terrible towel.

Jpup
12-23-2008, 07:50 AM
Total Defense (YPG) Complete List
1. Pittsburgh Steelers 244.7
2. Baltimore Ravens 262.1
3. Philadelphia Eagles 272.7
4. Washington Redskins 284.1
5. Tennessee Titans 287.2

Passing (YPG) Complete List
1. Pittsburgh Steelers 166.1
2. Philadelphia Eagles 180.1
3. Baltimore Ravens 183.2
4. Dallas Cowboys 189.1
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 190.1

Rushing (YPG) Complete List
1. Minnesota Vikings 73.0
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 78.5
3. Baltimore Ravens 78.9
4. Chicago Bears 91.3
5. Tennessee Titans 91

gosteelers2

31-14.

Danny Serafini
12-23-2008, 09:06 AM
Yards are nice, but I'm pretty sure the games are decided by points. I've never understood why the NFL ranks them on yards, it's like determining the best offense in baseball by batting average instead of runs scored.

Bip Roberts
12-23-2008, 09:16 AM
Yards are nice, but I'm pretty sure the games are decided by points. I've never understood why the NFL ranks them on yards, it's like determining the best offense in baseball by batting average instead of runs scored.

Because the defense cant control where the other team gets the ball. they can only control how many yards they give up.

Screwball
12-23-2008, 09:26 AM
Yards are nice, but I'm pretty sure the games are decided by points. I've never understood why the NFL ranks them on yards, it's like determining the best offense in baseball by batting average instead of runs scored.

Agreed. Your analogy is spot on. It's why I like to go by the Aikman Efficiency Ratings. They take into account 7 different factors on offense and defense, and measure them against league norms (and extremes) from the last 10 years. The points that are generated by the offensive and defensive units of each team are then ranked against each other. The factors are:

Adjusted Points (20%) -- Total Points Scored or Allowed minus Points on Returns and Safeties
Turnovers (20%)
Red-Zone Efficiency (20%) -- Measured by Percent of Possible Points (see below)
Yards Per Play -- divided into Yards Per Rush (10% of total) and Yards Per Pass Play (10% of total). Yards Per Pass Play includes yards on plays involving sacks.
First-Down Achievement -- divided into Total First Downs (10% of total) and Third-Down Conversion Percentage (10% of total)
Percentage of Possible Points in the Red Zone is figured by taking the number of Red-Zone Chances times 7, then dividing it by the number of Points Actually Scored (defined as TDs times 7 plus FGs times 3).

At any rate, the AERs haven't been updated after this past weekend's action, but going into Sunday's games the AER defensive rankings (for noted teams) looked like this:

1. Steelers (89.7 points)
2. Ravens (88.7)
4. Titans (82.9)
16. Browns (72.4)
24. Bengals (66.0)

The top points might be slightly different after Week 16, but I wouldn't expect the rankings to change much, if at all.

SteelSD
12-23-2008, 10:10 AM
Because the defense cant control where the other team gets the ball. they can only control how many yards they give up.

Yep, and then there's the fact that the median YPG offensive rank of Titans opponents has been 21st in the league, with only one top-10 offense faced the entire year (Houston- twice). In contrast, Pittsburgh's combined opponents have a median offensive ranking of 15th in the NFL and they've faced half of the NFL's top 10 offenses (HOU, PHI, NYG, NE, DAL) while tying an NFL post-merger sub-300 YPG record.

And there's also the fact that offensive points given up via turnover, Safety, and return end up counting against the team's defensive points allowed, even though they have nothing to do with the team's defensive unit. If we're using baseball analogies, that's akin to an offensive event spotting the opponent a Run and then adding the Run to your Pitcher's ERA while he's in the dugout waiting to hit. Makes no sense whatsoever.

The Titans are good, but they're a few rungs down the ladder if we're talking about the current "best" NFL defenses.

WVRed
12-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I think I'm a Titans fan after seeing Lendale White stomping on a terrible towel.

Same here. Not to mention Bill Cowher whining because the Titans were "disrespectful" in their treatment of the towel (the same Bill Cowher who did the Who-Dey We-Dey chant).

Danny Serafini
12-23-2008, 11:11 AM
And there's also the fact that offensive points given up via turnover, Safety, and return end up counting against the team's defensive points allowed, even though they have nothing to do with the team's defensive unit.

Taking those out points out (which makes more sense than leaving them in), it turns out neither dog in this fight comes out on top.

BAL 203
PIT 205
TEN 211

Baltimore may actually be 202, there's a missed XP against them somewhere and I don't know if it came after a defensive or nondefensive allowed TD, and it's not worth digging through the box scores to find it.

Marc D
12-23-2008, 12:23 PM
I've always held more value in what a football team does in terms of holding opponents below/above the other teams average.

A defense that consistently holds good offenses below their average and an offense that scores more/gains more yards than their opponents allow on average is a good barometer.

The OPS of football is yards per point however. It takes into account (according to the football stat heads I've talked to) everything like good offensive field position, turnovers etc. I'll dig up a link with a good discussion on it if anyones interested. This is a tool in the vegas handicappers tool box so if they like it, thats tells me it has some validity.

Ultimately for me, football just has such a small sample siz/short season and is so influenced by emotions that I give very little credence to the stats it generates.

SteelSD
12-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Taking those out points out (which makes more sense than leaving them in), it turns out neither dog in this fight comes out on top.

BAL 203
PIT 205
TEN 211

Baltimore may actually be 202, there's a missed XP against them somewhere and I don't know if it came after a defensive or nondefensive allowed TD, and it's not worth digging through the box scores to find it.

Oh, it's more complex than that. Of the 223 points allowed by Pittsburgh, 18 of them were produced via INT return or Safety. However, another 15 points were the result of FG after turnover or return when the defense held the opponent to a single series of downs deep in their own territory. That shows up as a positive (as it should) in the Yards allowed. Yet, because of the starting points for those drives, it appears as a negative in the Points Allowed category (which is silly). Overall, nearly 15% of the points allowed by the Steelers had pretty much nothing to do with the defensive performance. Basically, Pts. per Game is a poisoned well.

What defenses are tasked with is allowing few yards. That's what equal points when you clear the noise away. And that's where Tennessee is good (4th in the NFL in Yards per Play- 4.50), but it's where Pittsburgh dominates (3.97 Y/P). The number 2 defense (Philly) is at 4.40 Y/P, with Baltimore 3rd at 4.49 Y/P. That's really the only thing a defense can control and when you see one team at a much better rate while playing against much better offenses than another, it's a big deal.

Jpup
12-23-2008, 04:05 PM
Oh, it's more complex than that. Of the 223 points allowed by Pittsburgh, 18 of them were produced via INT return or Safety. However, another 15 points were the result of FG after turnover or return when the defense held the opponent to a single series of downs deep in their own territory. That shows up as a positive (as it should) in the Yards allowed. Yet, because of the starting points for those drives, it appears as a negative in the Points Allowed category (which is silly). Overall, nearly 15% of the points allowed by the Steelers had pretty much nothing to do with the defensive performance. Basically, Pts. per Game is a poisoned well.

What defenses are tasked with is allowing few yards. That's what equal points when you clear the noise away. And that's where Tennessee is good (4th in the NFL in Yards per Play- 4.50), but it's where Pittsburgh dominates (3.97 Y/P). The number 2 defense (Philly) is at 4.40 Y/P, with Baltimore 3rd at 4.49 Y/P. That's really the only thing a defense can control and when you see one team at a much better rate while playing against much better offenses than another, it's a big deal.

The mighty Steelers couldn't do anything with the Titans.

deltachi8
12-23-2008, 10:37 PM
The best defense? Please.

You know I'm with you in spirit and fandom, Steel, and yes the Steelers have the better D, but the Titans are a better team. There I said it, now I need a shower...

(and I don't think either of them make the Super Bowl)

:D

Marc D
12-24-2008, 12:14 AM
The mighty Steelers couldn't do anything with the Titans.


and the game before that the mighty Titans couldn't do anything with the Texans. Bad games happen, its not like the Steelers don't even belong on the same field.

SteelSD
12-24-2008, 12:34 AM
You know I'm with you in spirit and fandom, Steel, and yes the Steelers have the better D, but the Titans are a better team. There I said it, now I need a shower...

(and I don't think either of them make the Super Bowl)

I don't think either of them get past their first playoff games, actually. Well, unless the Steelers somehow put together something resembling a good offensive line and/or have a different offensive coordinator and/or figure out that Moore is a better option at this point than Parker.


and the game before that the mighty Titans couldn't do anything with the Texans. Bad games happen, its not like the Steelers don't even belong on the same field.

Titans fans love to call "scoreboard", but when it gets to the championship round, the silence is deafening. That team is akin to someone who can get through the first couple rounds of Jeopardy, but who doesn't have any of the big money answers. ;)

Bip Roberts
12-24-2008, 05:12 PM
I hate a lot of football fans. Lets argue who has the best practice field.

deltachi8
12-24-2008, 10:13 PM
I hate a lot of football fans. Lets argue who has the best practice field.

make your argument...

I hear the one in dallas is nice...cincinnati not so much.

but, the best uniforms are the lions throwbacks.

deltachi8
12-24-2008, 10:20 PM
I don't think either of them get past their first playoff games, actually. Well, unless the Steelers somehow put together something resembling a good offensive line and/or have a different offensive coordinator and/or figure out that Moore is a better option at this point than Parker.





the defense could carry them but it's too risky to gamble on that. it is quite disturbing how bad the offense can be with some of the talent they have.

I love Tomlin but he has some serious changes to make on the offense this offseason.

SteelSD
12-25-2008, 12:06 PM
the defense could carry them but it's too risky to gamble on that. it is quite disturbing how bad the offense can be with some of the talent they have.

I love Tomlin but he has some serious changes to make on the offense this offseason.

Yep, and it needs to start with the offensive line and continue with Ariens. The play calling has been simply baffling, particularly in short yardage situations.

And I have a suspicion that the Ravens are going to win the Super Bowl. I base this on my highly scientific process of pulling playoff QB football insert cards out of packs. It began in 2005 when I pulled a Roethisberger "road" mini-jersey out of a pack. The Manning brothers followed the next two seasons in order with inserts from Topps and Playoff packs (IIRC). So I went to the card shop this past Monday and walked out after pulling a Bowman Chrome Joe Flacco autograph. Maybe if I sell it before the playoffs start, it'll break the trend?

Marc D
12-25-2008, 03:57 PM
Maybe if I sell it before the playoffs start, it'll break the trend?

Please give it a shot.

As far as the Steelers go, it may be an over simplification but for the past few years I've felt its all about good Ben or bad Ben showing up.

Bad Ben gives you 4-5 TO's including a couple of red zone back breakers then the Steelers lose. If good Ben shows up you may still get a couple of TO's but he keeps it limited, does some damage to the opposing D and the Steelers usually win.

Now Ben's issues have a lot to do with how much pressure a non existant run game and poor pass pro put on him but thats another topic. Its never all one thing or another but imo if they had a good OL and a power back people wouldn't be so upset about Ariens. College football or NFL, bad offense usually stems more from a bad OL than playcalling.

SteelSD
12-25-2008, 09:52 PM
Please give it a shot.

As far as the Steelers go, it may be an over simplification but for the past few years I've felt its all about good Ben or bad Ben showing up.

Bad Ben gives you 4-5 TO's including a couple of red zone back breakers then the Steelers lose. If good Ben shows up you may still get a couple of TO's but he keeps it limited, does some damage to the opposing D and the Steelers usually win.

Now Ben's issues have a lot to do with how much pressure a non existant run game and poor pass pro put on him but thats another topic. Its never all one thing or another but imo if they had a good OL and a power back people wouldn't be so upset about Ariens. College football or NFL, bad offense usually stems more from a bad OL than playcalling.

While I think you have good points about how a bad OL pressures everyone, including the Offensive Coordinator, Ariens has done a very poor job of adjusting to the OL weakness, IMHO. He continues to try to run inside constantly and it's pretty clear that Parker isn't as good an option versus the shiftier and more powerful Moore considering the state of the OL.

I'm of the opinion that Ariens has to, at some point, adjust the play calling to match the talent available rather than to attempt to fit it into his own philosophy. IMHO, Ariens is pretty much the opposite of Dick LeBeau.

Bip Roberts
12-25-2008, 10:00 PM
Im pretty sure the Titans and Steelers both will be total bust in the playoffs this year.

Marc D
12-26-2008, 12:03 AM
Im pretty sure the Titans and Steelers both will be total bust in the playoffs this year.


I hear a lot of people say that but then I look around the AFC and who's going to bust them? I think you can eliminate the AFC West and East champs after round 1. That could very well mean Indy has to play at Tenn while Baltimore has to go to Pittsburgh.

Those two sets of teams have played some close games this year but I think if they played 10 times Tenn and Pitt beat Indy and B'more 7-8 times respectively.

Maybe one goes out early but I don't see both. Not because of last weeks game but out of the 4 AFC contenders(Tenn, Pitt, Indy, B'more) I would say Tenn has the best shot because they have the best run offense. They are the most complete team and have home field but you could have said that about Pittsburgh a half dozen times over the past few years and they missed a lot of SB's.

deltachi8
12-26-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm of the opinion that Ariens has to, at some point, adjust the play calling to match the talent available rather than to attempt to fit it into his own philosophy.



And that, IMHO is what separates a average coach and a good/very good one. Ariens has shown no ability to adjust to his talent but rather expects them to adjust to his.


IMHO, Ariens is pretty much the opposite of Dick LeBeau.

Very true. While LeBeau seems to play the same 3-4 zone blitz year in and year out, it actually changes quite often based on what the players he has can do. He takes the strengths of his players and maximizes them under his 3-4 allignment and also does a darn good job of limiting exposure to their weaknesses. There are holes in that D, but his ability to hide them and continually evolving to match what his guys do well make the holes hard to find on a weekly basis.

As for the AFC, I think no one is playing as well as Indy right now and I would pick them, even given Steel's card draw.

BTW Steel, Burn that card....

SteelSD
12-26-2008, 09:03 PM
And that, IMHO is what separates a average coach and a good/very good one. Ariens has shown no ability to adjust to his talent but rather expects them to adjust to his.

I completely agree.


Very true. While LeBeau seems to play the same 3-4 zone blitz year in and year out, it actually changes quite often based on what the players he has can do. He takes the strengths of his players and maximizes them under his 3-4 allignment and also does a darn good job of limiting exposure to their weaknesses. There are holes in that D, but his ability to hide them and continually evolving to match what his guys do well make the holes hard to find on a weekly basis.

Yepper, again.


As for the AFC, I think no one is playing as well as Indy right now and I would pick them, even given Steel's card draw.

BTW Steel, Burn that card....

Well, it's a $65-$70.00 card on eBay, so burning it isn't an option. But it'll go up this weekend. :)

WMR
12-26-2008, 09:15 PM
I completely agree.



Yepper, again.



Well, it's a $65-$70.00 card on eBay, so burning it isn't an option. But it'll go up this weekend. :)

d00d what kind of a squealer fan are you?!?! :D

65-70 bucks is a cheap price to pay for another super bowl. :p:

redsfanmia
12-28-2008, 04:46 PM
I hope the Titans know what they are doing. The two weeks off thing has not worked for teams in the past so we will see how they handle it. As a Colts fan I do not fear going into the play offs.