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Mario-Rijo
12-14-2008, 08:10 PM
Add what you like but I wanna track the top 5-6 teams who have a chance to still draft ahead of the Bengals. And a guess at the corresponding player they might pick if it stays the same.

Coming into today's games.

#1 - Detroit (0-13)
#2 - Cincy (1-11-1)
#3 - K.C. (2-11)
#4 - Seattle (2-11)
#5 - St. Louis (2-11)
#6 - Oakland (3-10)
#7 - Cleveland (4-9)

After Today's games.

#1 - Detroit (0-14) Matt Stafford QB
#2 - St. Louis (2-12) Andre Smith OT
#3 - K.C. (2-12) Malcolm Jenkins CB/S or Trade Down
#4 - Cincy (2-11-1) Rey Maualuga LB
#5 - Seattle (3-11) Chris Wells RB
#6 - Oakland (3-11) Michael Crabtree WR
#7 - Cleveland (Has not played yet) If they win they are eliminated from this conversation.

redsfanmia
12-14-2008, 09:15 PM
Mike Brown has to love dropping out of the top two, I am sure he is praying they win out so it will cost him less money when he drafts a running back or wide reciever with that draft pick.

Redhook
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
I hate everything about Mike Brown.

LoganBuck
12-14-2008, 09:40 PM
Oher is tackle prospect 1a. If they can't get Smith you take Oher, or vice versa.

MWM
12-14-2008, 10:14 PM
I hate everything about Mike Brown.

You and me share similar feelings when it comes to Mike Brown.

WVRed
12-14-2008, 11:51 PM
I'm not on the Rey Maualuga bandwagon.

He has great potential, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make any sense to draft linebackers when we can't even win a battle in the trenches. Maualuga does nothing to help with that.

The last thing this team needs right now is linebackers, or for that matter any defensive player not on the front line.

TheBigLebowski
12-15-2008, 12:16 AM
We'll take Oher at 4 unless he grades out terribly at pre-draft combines and camps. If we fall any farther, (it is not out of the realm of possibilities that we win our final 2 games vs. a Dorsey-led CLE and KC at PBS) it'd be Wells or Mauluga.

Emin3mShady07
12-15-2008, 01:19 AM
Can Michael Crabtree even be drafted? If I'm not mistaken he is a sophomore and I thought you had to be at least a junior.

KronoRed
12-15-2008, 02:20 AM
Can Michael Crabtree even be drafted? If I'm not mistaken he is a sophomore and I thought you had to be at least a junior.

Redshirt sophmores can be drafted.

redsfandan
12-15-2008, 03:14 AM
I'm sorry but they need lineman. They need lineman bad. So i wonder which rb/wr/lb/db they'll take.

Redhook
12-15-2008, 09:30 AM
I'm sorry but they need lineman. They need lineman bad. So i wonder which rb/wr/lb/db they'll take.

The 2 mock drafts I've seen thus far have the Mike Brungles taking Beanie Wells or Jeremy Maclin. Wells, I could almost live with because he's damn good, but Maclin makes less than no sense. I've seen Maclin play a lot because my wife's family is from Mizzou. He's fast and explosive. He's basically Teddy Ginn Jr. all over again.

They need guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Difference makers. It's so simple, yet Mikey boy doesn't get it and never will.



P.S. - I still hate him.

WVRed
12-15-2008, 10:03 AM
We'll take Oher at 4 unless he grades out terribly at pre-draft combines and camps. If we fall any farther, (it is not out of the realm of possibilities that we win our final 2 games vs. a Dorsey-led CLE and KC at PBS) it'd be Wells or Mauluga.

I look for us to pick likely in the 5-6-7 range. Odds are likely we will win out against Cleveland and KC. That being said, I look for Oher and possibly Smith to be gone if the above happens. St Louis and Kansas City both need O-Line help.

If we do fall, I wouldn't mind seeing us take either Eugene Monroe or Michael Johnson.

And I do believe Knowshon Moreno will be better than Beanie Wells.:)

WMR
12-15-2008, 10:31 AM
Rey Maualuga.

Mario-Rijo
12-15-2008, 12:17 PM
When you get an opportunity to take a presence like Maualuga you just do it. Unless of course Andre Smith is still ava. for us and we don't re-sign Andrews. Personally I'd rather re-sign Andrews he's a known commodity to an extent. Ya never know for sure how these guys will do when they turn pro.

Maualuga Scouting Report (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24662&draftyear=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d24662%26dr aftyear%3d2009)

1's and 2's are good on scouting reports, 3's, 4's & 5's not so much.

But if they do re-sign Andrews the line is fine.

LT - Jones (Collins waiting in the wings)
LG - Whitworth
C - This is a question mark IMO but Smith ain't a center.
RG - Bobbie Williams
RT - Andrews

Where in the world would Smith play assuming that happens? And BTW according to his scouting report he's a very, very good LT but not quite elite with regards to his pass blocking.

Top 40 underclassmen prospects: Offense (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3764404)


Offensive line
Andre Smith, OT, Alabama (6-4⅞, 341) | Grade: 98
Biggest asset: Overpowering at the point of attack
Biggest concern: Mirror-and-slide skills are good for size but not elite
Status: Likely leaving

Oher scouting Report (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=23889&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fdraftyear%3d200 9%26id%3d23889)
Oher is also a good prospect but not worthy of a top 5 pick IMO.

Monroe Scouting Report (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=24096&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fdraftyear%3d200 9%26id%3d24096)
Monroe is too risky from a medical standpoint for top 5 money.

Michael Johnson Scouting Report (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=24514&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fdraftyear%3d200 9%26id%3d24514)
Michael Johnson is good but again not top 5 too many doubts for my liking.

WVRed
12-15-2008, 03:13 PM
When you get an opportunity to take a presence like Maualuga you just do it. Unless of course Andre Smith is still ava. for us and we don't re-sign Andrews. Personally I'd rather re-sign Andrews he's a known commodity to an extent. Ya never know for sure how these guys will do when they turn pro.

The Detroit Lions did this with Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams at wideout. Needless to say, they are going to most likely be making the first pick in the draft.

As for known commodities, offensive linemen are the safest picks you can make in the NFL draft. Not the flashiest, but a definite necessity for any successful team.

I'm just throwing this out there, but with the character antics of Chad Johnson growing a bit stale and TJ refusing to discuss a contract extension, would anybody be opposed to taking Michael Crabtree? My biggest issue is that I see a lot of Peter Warrick in him potentially. Not so much the character as much as productivity.

WVRed
12-15-2008, 03:48 PM
Just to show I am serious with my all O-Line approach.:)

First round=Michael Oher(OT-Ole Miss)
Second Round=Alex Mack(C-California)
Third Round=Trevor Canfield(G-Cincinnati)

Starting O-Line:
LT-Michael Oher
LG-Andrew Whitworth
C-Alex Mack
RG-Trevor Canfield
RT-Stacy Andrews

A lot will be contingent on re-signing Stacy Andrews. Levi could be the odd man out, and he has struggled lately.

Hoosier Red
12-15-2008, 04:04 PM
I agree with your thoughts WV, but I have no interest in re-signing Andrews. I really see nothing in him that makes him worthy of a long term contract.
Franchise TJ, let Andrews go, draft a tackle and a center.

Let Levi and AC battle for LT, insert rookie at RT, sign a vet Center, and we're in business.

15fan
12-15-2008, 04:24 PM
I think whoever drafts Matt Stafford is going to be disappointed.

He's a good QB, but I don't think he'll be a franchise QB to match the hype & high pick prognostications that are floating around.

WVRed
12-15-2008, 05:12 PM
I think whoever drafts Matt Stafford is going to be disappointed.

He's a good QB, but I don't think he'll be a franchise QB to match the hype & high pick prognostications that are floating around.

A lot is going to depend on pre-draft and the bowl games. Stafford shows to be the best pro-QB and could have the quickest adjustment, as opposed to Bradford(shotgun only) and Tebow(spread).

acredsfan
12-15-2008, 05:49 PM
I'm starting a campaign for the bengals to use their first round pick on P Kevin Huber out of the University of Cincinnati. We need a punter, and shoot, we're going to screw up the first round pick anyway, so what the heck. Let's just punt our turn and hope to gain good position in the next round. If we don't pick one of the upper tier players, it stands to reason that someone will be able to be had for a bargain in the second. We will use that opportunity to take a long-shot downfield by drafting a issue-prone WR. Of course we will completely miss completing that, but then the opponets have to respect our deep game so we can continue to run ourselves into the ground.

Sorry, I've been drinking the Kool-Aid again...

Marc D
12-15-2008, 06:38 PM
As a Buckeye fan I was hoping that maybe the threat of the two Ohio "pro" teams lurking in the top 5-10 of the draft might somehow help keep Beanie at OSU 1 more year to avoid being drafted by either but alas, they will be in the top 5-10 again next year so he might as well go. :(

Good luck Beanie.

cincrazy
12-15-2008, 09:41 PM
The 2 mock drafts I've seen thus far have the Mike Brungles taking Beanie Wells or Jeremy Maclin. Wells, I could almost live with because he's damn good, but Maclin makes less than no sense. I've seen Maclin play a lot because my wife's family is from Mizzou. He's fast and explosive. He's basically Teddy Ginn Jr. all over again.

They need guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Difference makers. It's so simple, yet Mikey boy doesn't get it and never will.



P.S. - I still hate him.

If the Bengals select Jeremy Maclin, the NFL will be dead to me.

Yachtzee
12-15-2008, 10:16 PM
If the Bengals select Jeremy Maclin, the NFL will be dead to me.

The NFL is already on life support for me. I've watched maybe 1 game the whole way through all season. Until the NFL 1) does something to clamp down on players who sign contracts with huge up-front signing bonuses and then try to hold their teams hostage for a trade or new contract; and 2) treats all teams equally when it comes to things like disciplinary matters and violating league rules, I'm going to be a tough sell. I might jump on the bandwagon if the Bengals are doing well, but I just don't think I can get into it as much as I used to anymore.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 04:33 AM
The Detroit Lions did this with Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams at wideout. Needless to say, they are going to most likely be making the first pick in the draft.

As for known commodities, offensive linemen are the safest picks you can make in the NFL draft. Not the flashiest, but a definite necessity for any successful team.

I'm just throwing this out there, but with the character antics of Chad Johnson growing a bit stale and TJ refusing to discuss a contract extension, would anybody be opposed to taking Michael Crabtree? My biggest issue is that I see a lot of Peter Warrick in him potentially. Not so much the character as much as productivity.

A fair argument if it were the same, but the difference in what the Lions did and Maualuga is that Rey is just not talented like Rogers or college polished like M. Williams he's a combination of both plus more. Why you brought Roy Williams up is beyond me, he's a good WR with a poor team around him (when he was there). Let Calvin Johnson shoulder that load a while and see how he produces. And while I agree with O-Lineman being relatively safe I only view Smith as a legit top 5 pick and I believe he's gone before our slot. Now I'm not opposed to trading down in round 1 because this draft might end up being the deepest draft of all time. But I wouldn't trade out of the top 10 unless someone just blows me away, but even then it's gonna have to be a really good offer.

Umm Crabtree IDK, while I can see the rational WR's are not real good top 10 targets. Their success rate is pretty low. I'd prefer to re-sign T.J. and keep Chad despite their off field issues. However if they decide to deal Chad or not Re-sign TJ (the latter would be dumb depending on the money) I still like Simpson and Caldwell and the good Henry at least showed up this past week and he's stayed out of trouble for the most part so I think we're fine there assuming things stay that way.

I wonder if it would be wise to explore a deal based on Chad to KC for Larry Johnson. I know all the potential ramifications but does a said deal have any potential for a positive outcome. I imagine we would have to include a little something extra as RB is up the pole a notch in offensive positions heirarchy. Just a thought but one that could have a significant impact on our potential as a playoff team. And one in which might have to be explored due to a window that in my view has started to close in a sense but isn't yet closed.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 04:41 AM
I think whoever drafts Matt Stafford is going to be disappointed.

He's a good QB, but I don't think he'll be a franchise QB to match the hype & high pick prognostications that are floating around.

He's only being bandied about up there because he has the best potential of the QB's due to the arm strength advantage he has over the rest. He has the raw talent to be elite whereas the others are more questionable at this point. That said I'd take Bradford if I had to take a QB.

WVRed
12-16-2008, 07:04 AM
Why you brought Roy Williams up is beyond me, he's a good WR with a poor team around him (when he was there).


The reason I brought him up was for the sake of overloading at a position of strength just because it is the "best player available". Although when Calvin Johnson arrived, Charles Rogers and Mike Williams were more or less on their way out.

The only way I would trade out would be if say Philly offers both of their first rounders for the pick to take somebody like Crabtree.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 07:14 AM
The reason I brought him up was for the sake of overloading at a position of strength just because it is the "best player available". Although when Calvin Johnson arrived, Charles Rogers and Mike Williams were more or less on their way out.

Ok, but I think we have more good O-Lineman than LB's. But I guess you don't agree. Dhani Jones too me is a pretty good stop gap and nothing more and Jeanty isn't much either IMO. Rivers, Maualuga and Brandon Johnson/Blackstock might be interesting to watch develop.


The only way I would trade out would be if say Philly offers both of their first rounders for the pick to take somebody like Crabtree.

Philly's 2 1st rounders plus a 3rd or a player maybe, they are loaded on their D-Line which could help a great deal. I could see them moving up to the middle of round 1 or a little sooner to p/u Cushing or Laurainaitis. But up to our spot would likely be too prohibitive.

camisadelgolf
12-16-2008, 08:27 AM
The Bengals' linebacking unit could have been great if David Pollack were healthy, Ahmad Brooks understood how to play football, and Odell Thurman didn't make such stupid mistakes. Instead, the Bengals are stuck with Rivers and a bunch of stopgaps. Ideally, linebackers aren't drafted in the first round, but if the Bengals have a chance to get Maualuga, I think they should jump on it. As bad as the offensive line appears to be, they'll look a lot better when Carson Palmer is healthy.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 09:38 AM
The Bengals' linebacking unit could have been great if David Pollack were healthy, Ahmad Brooks understood how to play football, and Odell Thurman didn't make such stupid mistakes. Instead, the Bengals are stuck with Rivers and a bunch of stopgaps. Ideally, linebackers aren't drafted in the first round, but if the Bengals have a chance to get Maualuga, I think they should jump on it. As bad as the offensive line appears to be, they'll look a lot better when Carson Palmer is healthy.

I agree. But LB's aren't usually drafted in the 1st round because there are usually so few worth taking that high. This draft is loaded with them, maybe the best 1st round since Brooking/Spikes/Simmons. Maualuga, Laurainaitis, Cushing, Curry and a few hybrid 3-4 OLB types like Everette from Fla. St.

TheBigLebowski
12-16-2008, 09:53 AM
There is no way the Bengals take Jeremy Maclin. He's not a top-10 talent.

Michael Johnson is falling on most draft boards. Doesn't mean he doesn't fill a need because he would - I just think we'd be reaching if we took him with a top 5 pick.

We all know well of the Bengals draft day blunders. There could be a novel about them. Still, it's just too obvious this year that the O-line is our most pressing need and there are two legit top 5 picks at that position in this draft class. Smith is my first target but, if we happen to win one of our very winnable remaining two games (Browns & Chiefs), we can forget Smith and possibly even Oher.

I would be happy, although not thrilled with Mailauga. Some other Bengals fans have been kicking about the idea of taking Laurinitis if we fall out of the top 5. I would be appalled with that selection. JL is a good college LB who is maxed out physically and is not a top 5 selection in any draft class whatsoever.

Michael Crabtree is going to be a fine NFL WR but, if we take him, we're almost Matt Millen dumb. We blew 2nd and 3rd round picks on WR's last year knowing full well that we'd take Henry back as soon as we could and also after refusing to trade Chad Johnson. Without an O-Line that can actually block people. all the skill players in the world won't make your offense good. Look how bad Palmer was this year. Look how often he got banged around. You all think Chad just suddenly forgot how to play football? Other than the Lions' line, ours was the worst in football. That has to be rectified before ANYTHING else (other than Mike Brown).

Hoosier Red
12-16-2008, 11:59 AM
Ok, but I think we have more good O-Lineman than LB's. But I guess you don't agree. Dhani Jones too me is a pretty good stop gap and nothing more and Jeanty isn't much either IMO. Rivers, Maualuga and Brandon Johnson/Blackstock might be interesting to watch develop.


I agree counting on Dhani is tenuous at best.
But the OL is in shambles. Levi's hurt all the time, and plays like he's hurt even when he's not, Whitworth's solid but Williams is getting older(though admittedly I haven't seen a drop off in his play, and Stacy Andrews wishes he could play as well as Levi does when Levi's hurt. Ghiaciuc wishes he could play as well as Andrews.

camisadelgolf
12-16-2008, 02:03 PM
I agree that the offensive line problem needs to be addressed, but you're just not going to draft an offensive lineman in the first ten picks unless he's a franchise left tackle. If that franchise left tackle isn't available, then consider trading down. However, the linebacking depth is so terrible right now that spending the first pick on a player like Maualuga isn't necessarily a bad idea.

WVRed
12-16-2008, 03:31 PM
I agree that the offensive line problem needs to be addressed, but you're just not going to draft an offensive lineman in the first ten picks unless he's a franchise left tackle. If that franchise left tackle isn't available, then consider trading down. However, the linebacking depth is so terrible right now that spending the first pick on a player like Maualuga isn't necessarily a bad idea.

My prerank is this:

1.Michael Oher. IMO he is a franchise left tackle. Has size and everything you would look for.

2.Andre Smith. Size is the only reason I would rate him behind Oher.

3.Rey Maualagua.

Of course, a lot can happen between now and the offseason.

TheBigLebowski
12-16-2008, 11:05 PM
Someone mentioned Matt Stafford earlier in this thread...I have to say, being a Gator fan and watching this guy closely in SEC play, he is probably one of the most overrated QB's I have ever seen. I don't say that as a Gator fan; I would love to have Knowshon Moreno either in Orange & Black or Orange & Blue, as well as AJ Green and several of their other players. But Stafford is simply another story. I can promise you all that, if football had a sabermetrics system like basball, no stat heads would like the guy. Billy Beane would never draft him, of that I can assure you.

15fan
12-16-2008, 11:54 PM
Someone mentioned Matt Stafford earlier in this thread...he is probably one of the most overrated QB's I have ever seen.

He's a rich man's Ron Powlus.

WVRed
12-17-2008, 05:41 PM
Someone mentioned Matt Stafford earlier in this thread...I have to say, being a Gator fan and watching this guy closely in SEC play, he is probably one of the most overrated QB's I have ever seen. I don't say that as a Gator fan; I would love to have Knowshon Moreno either in Orange & Black or Orange & Blue, as well as AJ Green and several of their other players. But Stafford is simply another story. I can promise you all that, if football had a sabermetrics system like basball, no stat heads would like the guy. Billy Beane would never draft him, of that I can assure you.

I think he would be better served to return for his senior year.

1.Unlike Matt Leinart, who had nothing left to prove at the college level, Stafford could only improve his chances the following year barring injury.

2.He could redeem himself and likely make Georgia a contender even if Moreno departs.

That being said, Georgia has the no 2 QB in the nation coming in next season and my guess is Stafford will likely bolt.

Newport Red
12-17-2008, 06:16 PM
As a Buckeye fan I was hoping that maybe the threat of the two Ohio "pro" teams lurking in the top 5-10 of the draft might somehow help keep Beanie at OSU 1 more year to avoid being drafted by either but alas, they will be in the top 5-10 again next year so he might as well go. :(

Good luck Beanie.

I fully expect Mike to take Beanie.

I also expect to read that in the third pre-season game, someone comes unblocked through the Bengals porous line and drills Beanie for a 3 yard loss.

Beanie Wells watches the rest of the Bangals season from the sidelines.

WebScorpion
12-21-2008, 05:16 PM
BTW, with last weeks win, they dropped from #2 pick to #4. This weeks win could drop us to #6 depending on how Oakland and/or Seattle do. :( It's Classic Bengals season...play so poorly in the first half to remove all hope, but play just well enough after it doesn't count to create hope for next season while simultaneously ruining your draft choice. It's happened so often I'm beginning to think it's a formula. The difference between the #2 pick and the #6 or higher pick could be pretty hefty.

UKFlounder
12-21-2008, 05:25 PM
BTW, with last weeks win, they dropped from #2 pick to #4. This weeks win could drop us to #6 depending on how Oakland and/or Seattle do. :( It's Classic Bengals season...play so poorly in the first half to remove all hope, but play just well enough after it doesn't count to create hope for next season while simultaneously ruining your draft choice. It's happened so often I'm beginning to think it's a formula. The difference between the #2 pick and the #6 or higher pick could be pretty hefty.

Classic Dead-Cat bounce

redsfanmia
12-21-2008, 07:08 PM
He's a rich man's Ron Powlus.

He was going to win atleast 2 Heismans.

MWM
12-21-2008, 09:59 PM
He's a rich man's Ron Powlus.

I think Powlus is a really good comp for Stafford.

KoryMac5
12-22-2008, 12:47 AM
I didn't think Matt Ryan was all that either when he went to the Falcons. I think for a lot of these QB's it really depends on who they go to and how well they perform with what little they have. Detroit might be a good situation for Stafford especially when you have Smith in the backfield and Johnson to throw to.

Degenerate39
12-22-2008, 12:52 AM
When I hope the Bengals start to lose to get the best draft pick as possible they start winning. They can't even lose right

Redhook
12-22-2008, 10:19 AM
They can't even lose right.

I can't think of 5 words that would better describe this disaster of a team. Well said, sir. Well said.

Mario-Rijo
12-22-2008, 11:59 AM
Add what you like but I wanna track the top 5-6 teams who have a chance to still draft ahead of the Bengals. And a guess at the corresponding player they might pick if it stays the same.

Coming into today's games.

#1 - Detroit (0-13)
#2 - Cincy (1-11-1)
#3 - K.C. (2-11)
#4 - Seattle (2-11)
#5 - St. Louis (2-11)
#6 - Oakland (3-10)
#7 - Cleveland (4-9)

After Today's games.

#1 - Detroit (0-14) Matt Stafford QB
#2 - St. Louis (2-12) Andre Smith OT
#3 - K.C. (2-12) Malcolm Jenkins CB/S or Trade Down
#4 - Cincy (2-11-1) Rey Maualuga LB
#5 - Seattle (3-11) Chris Wells RB
#6 - Oakland (3-11) Michael Crabtree WR
#7 - Cleveland (Has not played yet) If they win they are eliminated from this conversation.

#1 - Detroit (0-15) Matt Stafford QB vs. Sam Bradford QB
#2 - K.C. (2-13) Andre Smith OT vs. Michael Crabtree WR TT
#3 - St. Louis (2-13) Michael Oher OT vs. Sam Bradford QB
#4 - Cincy (3-11-1) Rey Maualuga LB vs. Michael Crabtree WR vs. Aaron Maybin (if he comes out)
#5 - Cleveland (4-11) Michael Crabtree WR vs. Malcolm Jenkins DB
#6 - Seattle (4-11) Chris Wells RB vs. vs. Sam Bradford QB
#7 - Oakland (4-11) Aaron Curry OLB vs. Jeremy Maclin WR

Cincy has no chance of drafting in the top 3 as of now with that tie in hand. And worse this miserable season could end up with us out of the top 6 as well with a win at home against K.C. next week. I'm giving K.C. the edge however although not by much with us at home and playing better defense. But LJ, Tony Gonzales, Thigpen and Bowe should be diverse enough to throw us a tough game. Let's just say as I much as I hate to lose ever I wouldn't be opposed to the outcome of having the #4 pick in the draft.

So to recap, if we lose we cannot get a higher draft pick but also cannot fall out of the top 4. If we win we could tumble as far as the #7 slot.

*Also I added to the eventual picks (the guy furthest left) a VS. player that would no doubt be arguable for them in that spot. I added 2 for the Bengals because Crabtree and Maybin show some logic IMO.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-22-2008, 12:41 PM
Well done, Mario.

Of your list, I'll go with...

#1 - Detroit (0-15) Sam Bradford QB
#2 - K.C. (2-13) Michael Crabtree WR TT
#3 - St. Louis (2-13) Andre Smith OT
#4 - Cincy (3-11-1) Rey Maualuga LB
#5 - Cleveland (4-11) Malcolm Jenkins DB
#6 - Seattle (4-11) Chris Wells RB

LoganBuck
12-22-2008, 01:59 PM
My list of preference

1. Michael Oher
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Andre Smith
4. Jason Smith
5. Rey Maualuga
6. Micheal Crabtree


Then I go best available center in the second round.

In the third I take another offensive tackle for depth. An Alex Boone type of guy.

camisadelgolf
12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
My list of preference

1. Michael Oher
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Andre Smith
4. Jason Smith
5. Rey Maualuga
6. Micheal Crabtree


Then I go best available center in the second round.

In the third I take another offensive tackle for depth. An Alex Boone type of guy.

Does this mean you want the Bengals to not re-sign Stacy Andrews?

LoganBuck
12-22-2008, 02:41 PM
Does this mean you want the Bengals to not re-sign Stacy Andrews?

I don't think it is a question of my wants. They must either franchise tag him again for the final time, or sign him to a lucrative contract. It is widely believed in the Cincy media that he wants to get out on the open market (translation: He wants out of Bengaldom). The M&M gang has to decide between him and TJ, when it comes time to hand out the franchise tag. With the possibility of no salary cap in 2010, I don't think a team like the Bengals is going to be able to sign a high profile free agent. So they need protect their investment on the offensive line.

I would let TJ walk and keep Stacy. Stacy is still young, TJ is getting old for WR. I know where I would allot my funds.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-22-2008, 03:00 PM
I don't think it is a question of my wants. They must either franchise tag him again for the final time, or sign him to a lucrative contract. It is widely believed in the Cincy media that he wants to get out on the open market (translation: He wants out of Bengaldom). The M&M gang has to decide between him and TJ, when it comes time to hand out the franchise tag. With the possibility of no salary cap in 2010, I don't think a team like the Bengals is going to be able to sign a high profile free agent. So they need protect their investment on the offensive line.

I would let TJ walk and keep Stacy. Stacy is still young, TJ is getting old for WR. I know where I would allot my funds.

I hope this spells the end of the project pick.

What an absolute waste of time and money Stacy Andrews has been to this pathetic franchise.

Mario-Rijo
12-22-2008, 03:10 PM
My list of preference

1. Michael Oher
2. Eugene Monroe
3. Andre Smith
4. Jason Smith
5. Rey Maualuga
6. Micheal Crabtree


Then I go best available center in the second round.

In the third I take another offensive tackle for depth. An Alex Boone type of guy.

I'd have to go with:
Andre Smith
Rey Maualuga
Michael Crabtree
Aaron Maybin
Malcolm Jenkins
James Laurinaitis
Brian Cushing
Chris Wells

I'm just not convinced that Oher is a legit OT prospect he sounds like he is better suited to RG in the pros although I'm sure someone will draft him and attempt to play him at RT initially. Monroe I think could be better than Andre Smith but I wonder if he has the desire to be. I always question that with recent Virginia players although I haven't completely seen how well D'Brickashaw Feguson has transitioned but I think he's held up ok. But Monroe's scouting report reads like I should wonder. Jason Smith isn't a top 10 pick and maybe not even a top 20 pick either, again reading his scouting report leads me to believe this anyway.

Just based strictly on overall package this is how I see the top 10 players w/o regards to teams drafting there. Also based on the history of how teams draft in the top 10 which is mostly based on potential.

#1 - Matt Stafford - Has the big strong arm people look for which is talent #1 in a franchise QB.
#2 - Andre Smith - Has it all to play LT, isn't Pace good but still a franchise LT.
#3 - Michael Crabtree - Great big bodied playmaker elite in most ways except speed which is still plenty good enough.
#4 - Rey Maualuga - A tad over aggressive at times but other than that find a wart on this kid. He's the MLB that we have always lacked. The one true impact player in this draft that is a no-brainer.
#5 - Malcolm Jenkins - Not necc. elite but well above average in every way and a great tackler for a DB. Another sure thing.
#6 - Aaron Curry - A legit OLB but does still need some coaching up and isn't an elite talent either.
#7 - Sam Bradford - A great talent in every way but lacks elite arm strength.
#8 - James Laurinaitis - As good or better than Curry overall, but more intelligent and perhaps slightly less talented.
#9 - Brian Cushing - Would rate higher than Curry and on par with Maualuga if not for injury concerns. Although no major current issues has had some in the past.
#10 - Eugene Monroe - Could be the best player of all but some past injuries and small (pretty small) character concerns knock him down a little. Should really rank in the top 5 or so easily due to being the most talented LT prospect. (Frankly I am probably being too hard on him, I am assuming maybe too much about character concerns, just call it a hunch).

Notable: Aaron Maybin could be the wildcard but admittedly I don't have a full scouting report but he's the only DE prospect worth a top 10 pick IMO, assuming he comes out.

bucksfan2
12-22-2008, 03:53 PM
What ever happened to Orakpo the DE from Texas? I thought he was a sure thing to go in the top 10 but has fallen quite a bit.

Marc D
12-22-2008, 05:20 PM
What ever happened to Orakpo the DE from Texas? I thought he was a sure thing to go in the top 10 but has fallen quite a bit.


Wait untill he gets a prime time BCS game against Browning and company under his belt. He'll be a top 5 lock. :(

BuckeyeRedleg
12-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Wait untill he gets a prime time BCS game against Browning and company under his belt. He'll be a top 5 lock. :(

Browning is scary bad as an OT.

Mario-Rijo
12-23-2008, 12:17 PM
What ever happened to Orakpo the DE from Texas? I thought he was a sure thing to go in the top 10 but has fallen quite a bit.

I think his smallish size for a DE in a non cover 2 or 3-4 defense doesn't help him. He's 6'3 1/2" but he weighs in at only about 255 lbs. He doesn't have that elite closing speed and he's not particularly strong. He could eventually become a solid pro but I doubt he ever records a 8-10 sack season and for that reason really isn't a top 10 type selection in most drafts let alone one of this caliber.

This draft has the makings of one of the best drafts ever, if everyone comes out that is expected too. I predict that even a few undrafted FA's become good players in the NFL. There will likely be a lot of movement for extra picks in this one.

Mario-Rijo
12-23-2008, 12:54 PM
Well if OT wasn't a position of need it might be now. Stacy Andrews tore his ACL sunday and that obviously clouds his future I assume.

Andrews tears ACL (http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7408)

And it also likely makes TJ the proud holder of the franchise tag this offseason, which is good for me, TJ is one of my favorite Bengals.

Redhook
12-23-2008, 02:22 PM
Well if OT wasn't a position of need it might be now. Stacy Andrews tore his ACL sunday and that obviously clouds his future I assume.

Andrews tears ACL (http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7408)

And it also likely makes TJ the proud holder of the franchise tag this offseason, which is good for me, TJ is one of my favorite Bengals.

Well, so much for Stacy and his agent getting big-time money. I hate to see players getting hurt, I really do. Stacy may never be the same and he lost out on a lot of money due to greed by he and his agent.

Hopefully, this injury will force the Bengals to draft an OT in the first round. I wanted one prior to this injury and now it almost forces the hand. I would like a Center too in the 3rd round. DL in the 2nd.

I expect TJ to get franchised as well. I think that's a good move because I don't know how many years I'd want to sign an aging receiver to.

Mario-Rijo
12-23-2008, 05:21 PM
Well, so much for Stacy and his agent getting big-time money. I hate to see players getting hurt, I really do. Stacy may never be the same and he lost out on a lot of money due to greed by he and his agent.

Hopefully, this injury will force the Bengals to draft an OT in the first round. I wanted one prior to this injury and now it almost forces the hand. I would like a Center too in the 3rd round. DL in the 2nd.

I expect TJ to get franchised as well. I think that's a good move because I don't know how many years I'd want to sign an aging receiver to.

What's crazy though is they still have Levi and Anthony Collins and Whitworth who could play RT as well. I think I'd almost rather They coninue to groom Collins for another season behind Levi, Move Whitworth out to RT and draft another mid-late round OT. Guards are much easier to come by and didn't they already extend Whitworth's contract out last offseason? They could also consider moving Ghiacuic to LG who is a good pass blocker and is mobile and then find a dominant Center in FA or the draft. I don't know how many picks we have yet but I could now see anywhere from 2-3 OL taken again.

Anyhow what do people think about this alignment in a worst case scenario type of situation.

LT L. Jones (Collins backing up both Tackles)
LG E. Ghiacuic
OC Alex Mack (Cal) or Max Unger (Oregon)
RG B. Williams
RT A. Whitworth

Although I expect it will look more like this in '09 despite the clamoring to replace Ghiacuic.

LT L. Jones
LG Whitworth
OC Ghiacuic
RG Williams
RT Collins

LoganBuck
12-24-2008, 09:06 AM
I want no part of Ghiacuic.

Jones is probably done here with his level of production, nagging injuries, and pay.

My guess is you see:

LT Collins or Draft Pick
LG Whitworth
C Draft Pick or Free Agent
RG Williams
RT Collins or Draft Pick and maybe Stacy Andrews brought back as depth.

They must go OT, C, OT in the draft. I really don't see any other sensible plan, and now I think franchise tagging TJ becomes the no brainer.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 09:42 AM
In a way, the Bengals kind of 'won' against Andrews' agent. Andrews was wanting a long term, lucrative deal, and the Bengals weren't willing to give it to him at the price he wanted. Now, it looks like Andrews' decision to not lower his price in negotiations with the Bengals will cost him multimillion dollars.

WMR
12-24-2008, 10:11 AM
In a way, the Bengals kind of 'won' against Andrews' agent. Andrews was wanting a long term, lucrative deal, and the Bengals weren't willing to give it to him at the price he wanted. Now, it looks like Andrews' decision to not lower his price in negotiations with the Bengals will cost him multimillion dollars.

That move made Mike Brown's season.

Boss-Hog
12-24-2008, 10:11 AM
In a way, the Bengals kind of 'won' against Andrews' agent. Andrews was wanting a long term, lucrative deal, and the Bengals weren't willing to give it to him at the price he wanted. Now, it looks like Andrews' decision to not lower his price in negotiations with the Bengals will cost him multimillion dollars.
I think it's unfortunate that Stacy Andrews suffered such an apparently devastating injury (particularly given his size), but to be honest, I never thought he was anything special, anyway. When the Bengals decided to use the franchise tag on him - one year after completely wasting it on Justin Smith - all I could do was shake my head. That should be used for true 'difference makers' (hence it's the average of the top five players at a position) and neither Smith or Andrews comes anywhere close to being that.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 11:16 AM
I think it's unfortunate that Stacy Andrews suffered such an apparently devastating injury (particularly given his size), but to be honest, I never thought he was anything special, anyway. When the Bengals decided to use the franchise tag on him - one year after completely wasting it on Justin Smith - all I could do was shake my head. That should be used for true 'difference makers' (hence it's the average of the top five players at a position) and neither Smith or Andrews comes anywhere close to being that.

I agree for the most part, but in many instances, I think a player is worth the franchise tag even if he isn't elite, especially if it's at a position where the team is weak. For example, T.J. Houshmandzadeh is exiting his prime and will likely have several injuries that will steadily reduce his playing time over the next few years. I'd rather pay him for one year at $~10 million than pay him $33 million over four years.

WMR
12-24-2008, 01:23 PM
I agree for the most part, but in many instances, I think a player is worth the franchise tag even if he isn't elite, especially if it's at a position where the team is weak. For example, T.J. Houshmandzadeh is exiting his prime and will likely have several injuries that will steadily reduce his playing time over the next few years. I'd rather pay him for one year at $~10 million than pay him $33 million over four years.

It's not as though the contract is guaranteed. If you can get a player on a "long term" deal at a cheaper rate than he would get with the franchise tag, why not do it?

LoganBuck
12-24-2008, 02:34 PM
It's not as though the contract is guaranteed. If you can get a player on a "long term" deal at a cheaper rate than he would get with the franchise tag, why not do it?

Because the salary cap number for the bonus is prorated over the life of the contract. If a player at that pay level goes in the tank or gets injured, and the team needs to cut him, it all accelerates into the current year. It is the same reason why Chad Johnson is still on the roster instead of playing in Washington. The cap hit would be outrageous.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 05:24 PM
Because the salary cap number for the bonus is prorated over the life of the contract. If a player at that pay level goes in the tank or gets injured, and the team needs to cut him, it all accelerates into the current year. It is the same reason why Chad Johnson is still on the roster instead of playing in Washington. The cap hit would be outrageous.

Exactly. If the Bengals had signed Stacy Andrews to a long term contract before this season, they would have been stuck with the huge contract and career-threatening injury, and if Andrews were to never recover, they would have to pay him $10+ million to not play for the Bengals anymore, which is a huge cap hit, like you said.

icehole3
12-24-2008, 06:51 PM
No Franchise for TJ
per rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...aspx?sport=NFL

NFL.com's Adam Schefter reports that T.J. Houshmandzadeh will not get the Bengals' franchise tag this offseason.
Schefter says Cincinnati will instead try to sign Housh to an extension before his contract expires in late February. The Bengals have tried doing this previously, but couldn't get Houshmandzadeh to come to terms. If Housh hits the 2009 market, there won't be a better free agent wideout available.
Source: NFL.com

I honestly feel the Bengals wont make any type of moves this off season, I can see them just letting TJ walk.

WVRed
12-24-2008, 07:31 PM
This is disheartening, to say the least. TJ is probably my favorite receiver just based on efficiency. He doesn't have an interest in re-signing here and I could hardly say that I blame him. Franchising him would be the only way to keep him around one more year.

Mario-Rijo
12-28-2008, 10:45 AM
No Franchise for TJ
per rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...aspx?sport=NFL

NFL.com's Adam Schefter reports that T.J. Houshmandzadeh will not get the Bengals' franchise tag this offseason.
Schefter says Cincinnati will instead try to sign Housh to an extension before his contract expires in late February. The Bengals have tried doing this previously, but couldn't get Houshmandzadeh to come to terms. If Housh hits the 2009 market, there won't be a better free agent wideout available.
Source: NFL.com

I honestly feel the Bengals wont make any type of moves this off season, I can see them just letting TJ walk.

Marvin apparently stated that story isn't necc. to be believed, in fact he just called it false. I highly doubt TJ goes anywhere because he's probably the one guy Carson would have a fit about losing. I could sorta see Chad being moved this year, although it's still not ideal to excellerate his bonus dollars it's a lot more doable this offseason than last.

WVRed
12-28-2008, 11:03 AM
Marvin apparently stated that story isn't necc. to be believed, in fact he just called it false. I highly doubt TJ goes anywhere because he's probably the one guy Carson would have a fit about losing. I could sorta see Chad being moved this year, although it's still not ideal to excellerate his bonus dollars it's a lot more doable this offseason than last.

Unless TJ is franchised, he is likely gone, regardless of what Carson wants.

1.He is in for a big payday.

2.He is going to be the top receiver on the market.

3.All signs regarding an extension have pretty much been non-existant.

If TJ wanted to stay in Cincinnati, he would have already signed a contract extension by now. My guess is he already has one foot out the door.

Mario-Rijo
12-28-2008, 12:18 PM
Unless TJ is franchised, he is likely gone, regardless of what Carson wants.

1.He is in for a big payday.

2.He is going to be the top receiver on the market.

3.All signs regarding an extension have pretty much been non-existant.

If TJ wanted to stay in Cincinnati, he would have already signed a contract extension by now. My guess is he already has one foot out the door.

I see how you can come to that conclusion. But I don't think it turns out that way. Because I think he gets franchised if worse comes to worse, there's no real reason to believe he won't.

Reds Fanatic
12-28-2008, 08:24 PM
Bengals will have the 6th pick in the draft. Lions, Chiefs, Rams, Browns and Seahawks finished with worse records.

WVRed
12-28-2008, 09:41 PM
If I had to guess this early:

1.Detroit-Matt Stafford(QB-Georgia)
2.St Louis-Michael Oher(OT-Ole Miss)
3.Kansas City-Andre Smith(OT-Alabama)
4.Cleveland-Beanie Wells(RB-Ohio St)
5.Seattle-Michael Crabtree(WR-Texas Tech)
6.Cincinnati-Rey Maulagala(LB-USC)

For those who will criticize Beanie to the Browns, he will be the first back taken, and if Marty Schottenheimer is hired as coach, he will want a Martyball type of back.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-29-2008, 02:53 AM
If I had to guess this early:

1.Detroit-Matt Stafford(QB-Georgia)
2.St Louis-Michael Oher(OT-Ole Miss)
3.Kansas City-Andre Smith(OT-Alabama)
4.Cleveland-Beanie Wells(RB-Ohio St)
5.Seattle-Michael Crabtree(WR-Texas Tech)
6.Cincinnati-Rey Maulagala(LB-USC)

For those who will criticize Beanie to the Browns, he will be the first back taken, and if Marty Schottenheimer is hired as coach, he will want a Martyball type of back.

I think this is pretty much right on.

Maybe flip Oher and Smith and Bradford could end up passing up Stafford, but all in all I think this is a very likely outcome.

I would be pleased with Maualuga.

Adding him to the defense as well as an easier schedule and health and this team could be 8-8 or better next year.

icehole3
12-29-2008, 06:52 AM
draft ABB (Anybody But Beanie)

Mario-Rijo
12-29-2008, 11:39 AM
draft ABB (Anybody But Beanie)

He wouldn't be my preference but I don't know that I'd go that far depending on what happens. We very well could decide to trade down and then Beanie becomes a better option later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-0mlHNP5u8

WVRed
12-29-2008, 12:10 PM
draft ABB (Anybody But Beanie)

Agreed.

I think Cleveland would be the best place for Beanie though. They have a better O-Line and he would round out that offense for whoever comes in.

If the Bengals draft him with this O-Line, he is likely going to be in a neckbrace by the end of preseason.