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Mario-Rijo
12-15-2008, 02:04 AM
...Trade for a LHH CF who could OPS .850+ is young and available? What would you trade for him? Would you trade a package headed bye Yonder Alonso? I realize Yonder would have to be a PTBNL and the rest of the package would have to be figured out, but as always that's irrelevant.

This player OPS'ed this the past 2 season away from his home park.

'07 - .324/.401/.548/.949 (252 PA's) - Age 23
'08 - .288/.364/.487.851 (306 PA's) - Age 24

One caveat. He's played CF only 6 games in the majors but the early indication is he could play it pretty well, between his #'s and skillset I think he could. He may not be elite out there but I think above average defensively is likely.

dougdirt
12-15-2008, 02:28 AM
I know who you are talking about and I wouldn't trade Alonso for him, but I would target him. That said, I don't think he can play CF.

SteelSD
12-15-2008, 02:30 AM
There's already a Jeremy Hermida thread, he's not a CF, and there's no way I package Yonder Alonso for him.

reds44
12-15-2008, 03:45 AM
Hermida has enough trouble playing RF.

Mario-Rijo
12-15-2008, 06:01 AM
I'd like to hear why people think he can't play CF. I haven't seen him much defensively but am curious about it. #2 why not Alonso for him, it solves eventually having to move anyone and we would get the position(s) filled sooner. You take Hermida out of that gargantuan stadium and it seems he could be as big a beast as Alonso might eventually be.

If I had put it in the Hermida thread it would have been a dead give away, but I should have known 2 posts in someone would have blown my cover. The idea was to get people to look beyond any pre-conceived notions and give a hard look at the possibility before they just jumped and said he's not a CF.

Plus I figured if we can play him in CF for just this season perhaps we could still add that corner RH bat and everyone would be happy. So I guess my question is would you take him on and play him in CF or sign Wily Taveras? :D

PuffyPig
12-15-2008, 07:51 AM
I'd like to hear why people think he can't play CF. I haven't seen him much defensively but am curious about it. #2 why not Alonso for him, it solves eventually having to move anyone and we would get the position(s) filled sooner.

Firstly,posters doubt he could play CF because he doesn't look very good in right.

Secondly, I would't trade Alonsi for him because you don't have to. He'd come cheaper than that.

Cyclone792
12-15-2008, 08:01 AM
Jeremy Hermida finished in the top two in 2008 in a category I call "worst defensive outfield read of the season." It was a game against the Reds last season in Florida where he got a lousy jump, misread the ball terribly, and let a relatively easy out fall in for a hit. This was a ball that your average beer league softball right fielder would have hauled in.

RZ friend and Marlins fan ramp commented that Hermida is "a terrible outfielder."

membengal
12-15-2008, 08:02 AM
I would have lost a lot of money betting on what player would generate the most threads this off-season. Jeremy Hermida would not have made my top 20 on that kind of list. Weird what pops sometimes.

IslandRed
12-15-2008, 10:06 AM
I'd like to hear why people think he can't play CF.

Turning the question around: Why do you think he can?

I'm not going to proclaim the Marlins as the pinnacle of intelligent baseball organizations or that they're not capable of misjudging players, but let's be real. If a player can hit like Hermida and has even a sliver of a chance to play center field every day, teams will give him every opportunity to do it. Yet Hermida's always been a corner guy, despite the Marlins suffering through a revolving door of Juan Pierre, Alfredo Amezaga, Reggie Abercrombie and Cody Ross in center field since 2005. If he clearly had center-field skills, odd that they wouldn't have given him a chance, no?

Mario-Rijo
12-15-2008, 10:18 AM
Turning the question around: Why do you think he can?

I'm not going to proclaim the Marlins as the pinnacle of intelligent baseball organizations or that they're not capable of misjudging players, but let's be real. If a player can hit like Hermida and has even a sliver of a chance to play center field every day, teams will give him every opportunity to do it. Yet Hermida's always been a corner guy, despite the Marlins suffering through a revolving door of Juan Pierre, Alfredo Amezaga, Reggie Abercrombie and Cody Ross in center field since 2005. If he clearly had center-field skills, odd that they wouldn't have given him a chance, no?

Who knows why some F.O.'s do things. But if you read my post further I stated I didn't know for sure. However a guy picked that high in the draft who is an OF and cannot play defense? Not too mention when I took a look at his defensive #'s he looked pretty good, although as I pointed out in my initial post it was very small sample size.

So then why do so many want him if his defense stinks?

IslandRed
12-15-2008, 01:10 PM
Who knows why some F.O.'s do things. But if you read my post further I stated I didn't know for sure. However a guy picked that high in the draft who is an OF and cannot play defense? Not too mention when I took a look at his defensive #'s he looked pretty good, although as I pointed out in my initial post it was very small sample size.

So then why do so many want him if his defense stinks?

His defense can be lived with as a corner outfielder. And he hits.

Also, and my apologies in advance if I'm misreading, you seem to have a fairly either-or view -- if a guy's defense doesn't stink then he could play center field. I'd argue there's a fairly wide gap between "good everyday center fielder" and "stinks," one in which the majority of MLB outfielders would fall, I'd guess. They can play the corners well enough and they can play center in a pinch, but they're not an asset in center.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 12:42 AM
His defense can be lived with as a corner outfielder. And he hits.

Also, and my apologies in advance if I'm misreading, you seem to have a fairly either-or view -- if a guy's defense doesn't stink then he could play center field. I'd argue there's a fairly wide gap between "good everyday center fielder" and "stinks," one in which the majority of MLB outfielders would fall, I'd guess. They can play the corners well enough and they can play center in a pinch, but they're not an asset in center.

No that's not quite what I meant. What I meant was that so many are stating that he couldn't play CF and basing that opinion on his inability to even play a decent COF. Cyclone stated that Ramp has stated that he's a "terrible OF", which lead me to believe he must have been talking about in general as opposed to CF specifically.

So if that's the case why would we want a guy who is already a terrible defender at the age of 24? I was being a bit facetious asking that because I already knew the answer (his bat & his youth) but wanted people to ask themselves the defensive question. I myself would like to hear some specifics like Cyclone used (reading a flyball) to determine if he might be capable of playing CF anyway. For example I've read plenty of times that CF is actually easier to read a flyball than the corners. He may not be worth a look in CF but I still don't know any good reason why he can't. Is his inability to play CF due to a lack of talent (in which case I'd have to concede) or is it a lack of skill/opportunity (in which case I'd still wonder if it isn't possible)? I'd be interested to hear Ramp's take on it or anyone else who has watched him play enough to be more specific about his deficiencies.

I'm not trying to show anyone up here just hate closing the book on what could be. Although I expect that everyone is correct in assuming so if an organization without a good CF option would choose to not play him there.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 12:45 AM
Firstly,posters doubt he could play CF because he doesn't look very good in right.

Secondly, I would't trade Alonsi for him because you don't have to. He'd come cheaper than that.

If he'd come cheaper I'm all for that too. I just figure we can get around him not being RH by offering him up as a possible CF solution, thus allowing the F.O. to still look for their RH bat in LF.

corkedbat
12-16-2008, 12:57 AM
If you ended up with Bruce, Hermida and say, either Bradley or Dye, you'd have Bruce in CF and Hermedida in RF. It would be below average defensively and you'd wear Bruce out. Hermida in LF, DickersoninCF & Bruce in RF wouldn't be bad (except for the LH'dness of course).

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 01:04 AM
If you ended up with Bruce, Hermida and say, either Bradley or Dye, you'd have Bruce in CF and Hermedida in RF. It would be below average defensively and you'd wear Bruce out. Hermida in LF, DickersoninCF & Bruce in RF wouldn't be bad (except for the LH'dness of course).

Yeah I thought of moving Bruce over to CF as well adding a RH bat to play LF/RF and stick Hermida in RF/LF. But I just don't think much of Bruce in CF myself, I think he can do ok there but obviously I want the most ideal solution both offensively and defensively. However they all can be subbed for adequately with Dickerson on the bench.

corkedbat
12-16-2008, 01:10 AM
Yeah I thought of moving Bruce over to CF as well adding a RH bat to play LF/RF and stick Hermida in RF/LF. But I just don't think much of Bruce in CF myself, I think he can do ok there but obviously I want the most ideal solution both offensively and defensively. However they all can be subbed for adequately with Dickerson on the bench.

I wasn't that big on Bruce in CF and much prefer him in RF (I think he has a chance to become a plus defender there longterm), but if your CF options are Bruce or Hermida I would say it's Bruce hands down.

WebScorpion
12-16-2008, 03:59 PM
Gone are the days of sacrificing defense for an offensive upgrade. First and foremost, the team must have solid defensive play...especially up the (C, SS, 2B, CF) middle. Next, pitching must team with the solid defense to keep the opponents from scoring at will. Finally, enough offense must be added to score at least a few runs on any team. The steps must be completed in that order. In Walt we trust. Amen. ;)

ramp101
12-16-2008, 10:46 PM
Hermida is more than athletic enough to play center field but he gets absolutely horrid reads of the ball off the bat and makes some idiotic plays in the field. He's got a strong arm as well.

That and he's got a history of nagging lower body injuries and all that running would surely make him pull something at some point.

It would just be silly to put him in CF when he has enough issues tying his shoes.

In conclusion, he could play CF fine, but he's going to make a few boneheaded plays that will make you wonder why he chose baseball as a profession in the first place.

This all being said, he would probably cost alot to acquire at this point, even after a down year. Atleast I hope he would.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 11:46 PM
Hermida is more than athletic enough to play center field but he gets absolutely horrid reads of the ball off the bat and makes some idiotic plays in the field. He's got a strong arm as well.

That and he's got a history of nagging lower body injuries and all that running would surely make him pull something at some point.

It would just be silly to put him in CF when he has enough issues tying his shoes.

In conclusion, he could play CF fine, but he's going to make a few boneheaded plays that will make you wonder why he chose baseball as a profession in the first place.

This all being said, he would probably cost alot to acquire at this point, even after a down year. Atleast I hope he would.

Gotcha, thanks for the info Ramp. I guess my only thought on it would be that I'd be all for trying him in CF as I have heard players state that it's easier to read the ball from CF than the corners. My only concern would be the impact it might have on his health, which might be a valid excuse to flush that idea. But I wonder if it wouldn't be worth it to try him there for a season or maybe 2 at most. He becomes a FA after '10 so 2 years in GABP would no doubt make him a Type A FA CF in the worst case scenario assuming he can stay relatively healthy to that point.

I'd deal for him and put his butt in CF for at least this season and see what happens. Although I'd prefer to acquire him and stick him in LF the F.O. is convinced we need a big RH bat for that. Hermida gets on base enough and hits for enough average to make Dusty and Walt think he could be a reasonable leadoff hitter.

IslandRed
12-17-2008, 10:39 AM
I'd deal for him and put his butt in CF for at least this season and see what happens.

If you're willing to chance sub-optimal defense in center field for the sake of offense, why not just put Jay Bruce there? Bruce in CF/Hermida in RF is a better defensive configuration than the reverse, IMO. At least Bruce was competent in center in the minors.

Mario-Rijo
12-17-2008, 11:52 AM
If you're willing to chance sub-optimal defense in center field for the sake of offense, why not just put Jay Bruce there? Bruce in CF/Hermida in RF is a better defensive configuration than the reverse, IMO. At least Bruce was competent in center in the minors.

Obviously this is all hypothetical. But if I were trying to sell the idea to the F.O. of acquiring both Hermida and a RH bat then any configuration would be a better one than acquiring a sub par player of the ilk of a Taveras. Which is mainly my goal here. However I'm not so sure that Walt and company wanna move Jay around. Perhaps they want to keep him in RF to excellerate his learning curve.

That said Ramp didn't give me any indication that Hermida's defense was any worse than Bruce's currently. Jay had the exact same problem last season when in CF or RF (judging flyballs) and although I hope and expect it to improve I don't see it as a given that it's a better configuration. Except for the obvious potential health issues for Hermida. Let's just say I'd look them both over again in CF and RF in S/T and make that determination then.