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wheels
12-15-2008, 03:23 PM
This is news to me, so take it with the proverbial grain of salt.

From MLBTradeRumors:

Milton Bradley is weighing his options with the Cubs and Rays. Joe Maddon and the Rays may be a better fit than Lou Piniella and the Cubs. And spending time at DH would allow him to "protect his oft-injured body." But will the Rays meet Bradley's asking price when they can turn to Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi, Garret Anderson, or Pat Burrell instead?

Rosenthal adds that the Reds, Angels, and Nationals are also interested in Bradley.

That would be very interesting to say the least.

flyer85
12-15-2008, 03:32 PM
if the Reds wanted to role the dice on a 1-year contract and hope he stays healthy I have no problem with that. Certainly better than some of the other options being tossed around.

OnBaseMachine
12-15-2008, 03:34 PM
I'd love to have Bradley on a one or two year deal. He's got a problem staying healthy but the guy can hit. I doubt if he'll ever OPS 1.000 again but he's a solid bet to get on base at a .370 clip and hit for some power. Of course I'd sign a backup like Gross or Gomes just in case of injury.

Johnny Footstool
12-15-2008, 03:35 PM
Sign him cheap and have a backup plan.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 03:36 PM
No thanks. Maybe if he wasn't always injured or a headcase, but not both.

flyer85
12-15-2008, 03:41 PM
Sign him cheap and have a backup plan.they don't have to sign him cheap because they have some $$$ to play with ... just limit the contract to one year. A backup plan really isn't all that important. For the Reds to compete in 2009 and make up that huge run differential they are going to have to roll the dice and get extrememly lucky. If Bradley doesn't pan out having a backup plan isn't going to matter.

lollipopcurve
12-15-2008, 03:43 PM
they don't have to sign him cheap because they have some $$$ to play with ... just limit the contract to one year.

He'll get 2 years, likely more, from someone else. A one-year offer has no chance.

flyer85
12-15-2008, 03:44 PM
He'll get 2 years, likely more, from someone else. A one-year offer has no chance.
then so be it. Bradley plays somewhere else ... go break a leg.

Roy Tucker
12-15-2008, 03:45 PM
I think it would be a decent signing.

Dusty would give Bradley the vet love that he craves.

RFS62
12-15-2008, 03:49 PM
Dude can hit.

wally post
12-15-2008, 03:51 PM
a 2 year contract with an automatic third year performance-based option, much like the Indians did with Kerry, would perhaps get him signed and I think it is worth it.

redsfan30
12-15-2008, 03:52 PM
With a young, impressionable clubhouse, is he worth the potential headache?

lollipopcurve
12-15-2008, 03:53 PM
I'd love to see them sign Bradley. Really. But how long a leash would the Reds faithful give him? How about the media, led by Franchester of Carolina? You know, Milton doesn't smile much. Things could go sour in a hurry.

flyer85
12-15-2008, 03:56 PM
With a young, impressionable clubhouse, is he worth the potential headache?Supposedly he is not a problem in the clubhouse or a bad guy. He just has a short fuse when out on the field. It could go well with Dusty(known for being a "players manager").

BTW, just put him and Franchester in a locked room if the criticism gets a little harsh.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 03:57 PM
This is the last guy they need.

BRM
12-15-2008, 03:59 PM
This is the last guy they need.

Why do you say that? Is it his attitude or his injury history?

KronoRed
12-15-2008, 04:00 PM
He's gotten more then 415 at bats in a season one time and he's north of 30, no thanks.

bucksfan
12-15-2008, 04:01 PM
Why do you say that? Is it his attitude or his injury history?
...or lack of belief in dinosaurs?... (that was Milton, wasn't it?)

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 04:02 PM
Why do you say that? Is it his attitude or his injury history?

The attitude is trash. That's the main reason. This is a young team and they shouldn't be subjecting the likes of Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and everyone else to this guy.

There's a reason why this guy is going on his 7th franchise by the age of 31.

Add in the injury risk and he shouldn't even be on the board.

blumj
12-15-2008, 04:04 PM
...or lack of belief in dinosaurs?... (that was Milton, wasn't it?)
That was Jurassic Carl(AKA Crazy Carl)Everett. But I can definitely see why you'd get them mixed up.

BRM
12-15-2008, 04:06 PM
The attitude is trash. That's the main reason. This is a young team and they shouldn't be subjecting the likes of Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and everyone else to this guy.

There's a reason why this guy is going on his 7th franchise by the age of 31.

Add in the injury risk and he shouldn't even be on the board.

The thinking would be that Dusty Baker could keep him under control being the "players manager" that he is. There is no way around the injury bug though. That is definitely a valid concern.

camisadelgolf
12-15-2008, 04:07 PM
The attitude is trash. That's the main reason. This is a young team and they shouldn't be subjecting the likes of Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and everyone else to this guy.

There's a reason why this guy is going on his 7th franchise by the age of 31.

Add in the injury risk and he shouldn't even be on the board.

I'm fairly responsible, and I attribute a lot of that to learning what not to do from watching my father. I don't think having a guy like Bradley around is as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. It could help the young guys in the long run. :p:

AmarilloRed
12-15-2008, 04:08 PM
He'll get 2 years, likely more, from someone else. A one-year offer has no chance.

Milton rejected a 1 year offer from Texas. He is looking for a multiyear deal, but 2 years with a option for a third might be enough.

bucksfan
12-15-2008, 04:09 PM
That was Jurassic Carl(AKA Crazy Carl)Everett. But I can definitely see why you'd get them mixed up.

aaah, yes; thank you. I have updated my files with this information! ;)
I just didn't want to have Jay Bruce running around out there not believing in dinosaurs. My fears in that regard are now at rest.

Tom Servo
12-15-2008, 04:09 PM
I wanted him last year when he was cheaper. Now, with his cost significantly higher (plus his attitude problems), I'm not so sure.

cincrazy
12-15-2008, 04:10 PM
The attitude is trash. That's the main reason. This is a young team and they shouldn't be subjecting the likes of Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and everyone else to this guy.

There's a reason why this guy is going on his 7th franchise by the age of 31.

Add in the injury risk and he shouldn't even be on the board.

I think the clubhouse issue isn't an issue at all. Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and all the rest are adult's, not teenager's. I can't see them turning into bad apple's because Bradley might or might not be a headcase.

The injury concerns are an issue, but at some point this team has to take a risk. Give me his 400 AB's and crappy attitude any day of the week over some of the other alternative's. The guy can hit. We need hitter's. Match made in heaven as far as I'm concerned.

Chip R
12-15-2008, 04:11 PM
That was Jurassic Carl(AKA Crazy Carl)Everett. But I can definitely see why you'd get them mixed up.


I get them mixed up too. Not sure why.

Kc61
12-15-2008, 04:12 PM
Get Jermaine Dye.

Strikes Out Looking
12-15-2008, 04:15 PM
I have two fears about Bradley. One his reputation, fair or not. Second is his durability.
However, it would be kind of cool to have Milton Bradley play the same position Yatzee once played.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 04:17 PM
I think the clubhouse issue isn't an issue at all. Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Cueto and all the rest are adult's, not teenager's. I can't see them turning into bad apple's because Bradley might or might not be a headcase.

The injury concerns are an issue, but at some point this team has to take a risk. Give me his 400 AB's and crappy attitude any day of the week over some of the other alternative's. The guy can hit. We need hitter's. Match made in heaven as far as I'm concerned.

There is a reason why guys like Bradley, TO, Moss and others get passed from team to team while mostly producing along the way. They aren't worth it, even when they are producing.

BRM
12-15-2008, 04:20 PM
Get Jermaine Dye.

He'd be less of an injury risk but he'd cost quite a bit more.

camisadelgolf
12-15-2008, 04:32 PM
There is a reason why guys like Bradley, TO, Moss and others get passed from team to team while mostly producing along the way. They aren't worth it, even when they are producing.

Moss helped get the Patriots to the Super Bowl. If Bradley gets the Reds win the pennant, I think he's worth it.

Joseph
12-15-2008, 04:35 PM
I've heard his nae around alot lately

I wonder if its not his agents drumming up interest.

Screwball
12-15-2008, 04:38 PM
There is a reason why guys like Bradley, TO, Moss and others get passed from team to team while mostly producing along the way. They aren't worth it, even when they are producing.

I'm not sure you can compare Milton to those two though. Football is the ultimate team sport. Baseball is about as individulaistic a team sport as there is. I doubt Bruce is going to start popping up fastballs down the middle because Milton and Marty got into it the other night. Or Cueto's going to stop missing bats because that freakin' Milton guy didn't laugh at his joke.

If the Reds have some money to spend, they could do a lot worse than Milton Bradley. I have no problem "putting up" with ~140 OPS+ (his rough average over the last 3 years, something Dunn hasn't even managed during that same time span, though he was much healthier). The real question should be the contract length. I like the idea of 2 years with an option for a third. Seems that'd be just about right until we see if Frazier or Alonso (or whoever) could fill in on a more permanent basis.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 04:42 PM
Dude can hit.

... from both sides of the plate!

And thankfully, Dude in the past has successfully found his way out to LF (71 times in his career, for those scoring at home). Most noteably, he played 40 games there for the Padres in 2007, which is encouraging.

Discouraging, however, is that he'll be a DH playing LF (this seems familiar for Cincy, no?), but his bat more than justifies his lack of D, IMO.

Also encouraging is that Dude knows how to find 1B without the help of GPS, or a map. .370 OBP for his career, .280 AVG for his career.

So, given he made $5,250,000 in 2008, and $4,000,000 in 2007, what's a good $ for Milton Bradley? $7 Mil? $8 Mil? $9 Mil?

IMO, once Milton Bradley's salary approaches $10 Million a year for more than 2 years, we'll be burning that proverbial pile 'o cash.

But man, it would be fun to watch someone with some fire to him like Milton Bradley.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 04:44 PM
I get them mixed up too. Not sure why.

Switch-hitting headcases, both of whom have played for the Texas Rangers.

I can easily see the mix up.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 04:52 PM
I'm not sure you can compare Milton to those two though. Football is the ultimate team sport. Baseball is about as individulaistic a team sport as there is. I doubt Bruce is going to start popping up fastballs down the middle because Milton and Marty got into it the other night. Or Cueto's going to stop missing bats because that freakin' Milton guy didn't laugh at his joke.

If the Reds have some money to spend, they could do a lot worse than Milton Bradley. I have no problem "putting up" with ~140 OPS+ (his rough average over the last 3 years, something Dunn hasn't even managed during that same time span, though he was much healthier). The real question should be the contract length. I like the idea of 2 years with an option for a third. Seems that'd be just about right until we see if Frazier or Alonso (or whoever) could fill in on a more permanent basis.

There is a reason why MB is on his 7th organization. We can think that OPS is OPS no matter what the situation, but in actuality it doesn't work that way. This isn't strat-o-matic.

And that lofty OPS+ was put up over seasons of 96, 61 and 126 games. Awesome, it's the second coming of Griffey circa 2003-2005. Now we just need someone to fill in the 200 missed games.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 04:53 PM
Moss helped get the Patriots to the Super Bowl. If Bradley gets the Reds win the pennant, I think he's worth it.

Moss also poisoned the Raiders along the way, as if they needed help in that department.

reds44
12-15-2008, 04:55 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 04:56 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

Jim Coombs?

BRM
12-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

We'd all agree that acquiring Albert Pujols would be a good move.

remdog
12-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Dude can hit.

Dude can't field.

Rem

Screwball
12-15-2008, 05:09 PM
And that lofty OPS+ was put up over seasons of 96, 61 and 126 games. Awesome, it's the second coming of Griffey circa 2003-2005. Now we just need someone to fill in the 200 missed games.

Yes, it's a risk. But I don't plan on it being a 9 year, $100 million one. He played in 3/4 games last year. He put up stupid good numbers. Sign him for a couple of years. Sure, it could backfire, but it could also very well be that signing that changes this team around and sends us to the playoffs, if not serious contention for said playoffs.

*BaseClogger*
12-15-2008, 05:10 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

Valentin's stache? :cool:

Joseph
12-15-2008, 05:12 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

Never ever will be.

wheels
12-15-2008, 05:18 PM
He's better than Willy Taveras.

TRF
12-15-2008, 05:19 PM
He's better than Willy Taveras.

so's my dead cat.

I miss my cat. :(

BRM
12-15-2008, 05:20 PM
He's better than Willy Taveras.

Faint praise indeed.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes, it's a risk. But I don't plan on it being a 9 year, $100 million one. He played in 3/4 games last year. He put up stupid good numbers. Sign him for a couple of years. Sure, it could backfire, but it could also very well be that signing that changes this team around and sends us to the playoffs, if not serious contention for said playoffs.

It's sad that 75% of games is an achievement for this guy.

He also played over 80% of those games at DH. How many would we expect him to play in Cincy?

I'd rather plow that money into Furcal. At least he's only an injury risk. This guy has way too much baggage.

wheels
12-15-2008, 05:22 PM
Faint praise indeed.

I didn't really mean it that way, exactly.

It's just that some folks feel as if Willy Taveras is the only option, when he so obviously isn't.

BRM
12-15-2008, 05:28 PM
I didn't really mean it that way, exactly.

It's just that some folks feel as if Willy Taveras is the only option, when he so obviously isn't.

I know. Like I said in the other thread, if Taveras is the only option then the Reds are screwed.

Screwball
12-15-2008, 05:36 PM
It's sad that 75% of games is an achievement for this guy.

He also played over 80% of those games at DH. How many would we expect him to play in Cincy?

I'd rather plow that money into Furcal. At least he's only an injury risk. This guy has way too much baggage.

Don't like the injury risk? Fine. But I think you're way too caught up on intangibles. It's baseball, not synchronized swimming.

wheels
12-15-2008, 05:40 PM
I dig the idea of Bradley as long they have a guy that can step in for an extended time.

There's the drawback. You gotta pay Milton's salary, plus his pay his caddy a decent chunk.

Still....He feels like Kevin Mitchell to me and I like that feeling.

Caveat Emperor
12-15-2008, 05:41 PM
I've heard his nae around alot lately

I wonder if its not his agents drumming up interest.

Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.

I'd be shocked if the Reds were seriously considering Milton Bradley any more than a call to his agent to find out what he's looking for salary/years wise. Agent then floats this to "sources" to make his client look like he's in-demand and to shake cash loose from some of his suitors.

FWIW, though, I like Bradley as a good fit for the Reds. I seem to recall another all-world talent with a ten-cent head that Dusty Baker managed effectively in San Francisco.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 05:42 PM
Don't like the injury risk? Fine. But I think you're way too caught up on intangibles. It's baseball, not synchronized swimming.

And I think sometimes people get way too caught up on stats.

The guy is a circus. Flat out. He should be far, far away from Cincy, except if he puts on the Bengals uni.

And we aren't even discussing the fact that he has never played a full season of baseball in his career.


Critical comments cause Bradley to go looking for Royals announcer
ESPN.com news services

Updated: June 12, 2008, 2:35 PM ET

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Milton Bradley stormed out of the Texas Rangers clubhouse after an 11-5 victory Wednesday night over Kansas City and bounded up four flights of stairs looking for Royals television announcer Ryan Lefebvre.

Bradley, who was the designated hitter, heard what he considered derogative remarks made by Lefebvre on a TV in the Rangers clubhouse.

General manager Jon Daniels and manager Ron Washington were close behind and intercepted Bradley before he reached Lefebvre.

"I don't want to get necessarily into the details," Daniels said. "He was upset. Someone who doesn't know him was passing judgment on TV. It was obvious he was hurt by the comments."

Bradley never reached Lefebvre, although he was within about 20 feet of him in the TV booth before being led back down to the clubhouse.

"There was no incident," Daniels said.

Upon returning to the clubhouse, Bradley screamed at teammates and broke down in tears.

"I'm tired of people bringing me down," Bradley said. "It wears on you. I love you guys, all you guys. I'm strong, but I'm not that strong. All I want to do is play baseball and make a better life for my kid than I had."

Several of Bradley's teammates consoled him after he calmed down.

Rangers president Nolan Ryan told ESPN.com on Thursday that he didn't hear Lefebvre's comments on the broadcast but added that Bradley has done an admirable job of trying to put his behavioral problems in the past.


"We're disappointed that things were said that upset Milton," Ryan told ESPN.com. "From my observations since spring training, he is really trying to change the part of his life that has plagued him during his career. We're very supportive of that, and we feel as if he's made great strides.

"It's an incident that came up, and I think it was handled properly. Milton was upset and disappointed about it, but I'd like to think this is behind us and we'll move on," Ryan said.

Lefebvre, who is the son of former major-league manager Jim Lefebvre, said he met with Daniels and Washington about his on-the-air comments but did not talk to Bradley. Lefebvre said the comments were intended to praise Josh Hamilton, who missed nearly four years of professional baseball with cocaine and alcohol additions, rather than tear down Bradley.

"It was a conversation about how Josh Hamilton has turned his life around and has been accountable for his mistakes," Lefebvre told The Associated Press. "Right now, it seems like the baseball world and fans are rooting for him. ... It doesn't seem like Milton Bradley has done the same thing in his life."

The oft-injured Bradley has a history of losing his temper.

He slammed a plastic bottle at the feet of a fan in the right-field seats at Dodger Stadium in 2004 after someone threw it on the field. With San Diego in the pennant chase last September, he tore the ACL in his right knee when he was spun to the ground by Padres manager Bud Black, who was trying to keep him from an umpire.

He was suspended for five games after slamming the bottle and had a four-game suspension for tossing a bag of balls onto the field after an ejection. There was a dugout confrontation with Cleveland manager Eric Wedge during spring training in 2004 before he was traded to Los Angeles.

Bradley claimed umpire Mike Winters baited the player into the confrontation and directed a profanity at him last September. Winters was suspended the final five days of the regular season and didn't work the postseason.

"We weren't singling out Milton Bradley," Lefebvre said. "We also spent a lot of time complimenting Milton Bradley, but that's not what he heard when he was in the clubhouse.

"We weren't tearing up Milton Bradley," he said. "I told [Washington and Daniels] this wasn't a Milton Bradley rip session, but just based on the pictures we've seen in this series of him walking to the dugout all the way to right field, dropping his bat, making gestures to the fans in right field and above the dugout and taunting them. He's the only person in baseball I know that does that type of stuff."

Information from ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick and The Associated Press was used in this report.



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3438827

wheels
12-15-2008, 05:44 PM
And I think sometimes people get way too caught up on stats.

The guy is a circus. Flat out. He should be far, far away from Cincy, except if he puts on the Bengals uni.

And we aren't even discussing the fact that he has never played a full season of baseball in his career.



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3438827

:laugh:

He RULES.

WMR
12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
This dead cat sounds like a sleeper.

Screwball
12-15-2008, 05:52 PM
And I think sometimes people get way too caught up on stats.


Probably because stats are a way of quantifying how good a player is. Sorry if folks around here get way too caught up in someoby's talent level.


The guy is a circus. Flat out. He should be far, far away from Cincy, except if he puts on the Bengals uni.


If he OPSes 1.000, he can tame a lion and swing from the trapezes for all I care. Nice Bengals reference though. Current.


And we aren't even discussing the fact that he has never played a full season of baseball in his career.


Eh, we don't need him for a full season. 120 games would be adequate. Find another competent player who can step in as a 4th/5th outfielder and the Reds could actually be looking to compete next year.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 05:52 PM
I'd rather plow that money into Furcal. At least he's only an injury risk. .


Furcal's DUI says "hi".

*BaseClogger*
12-15-2008, 05:54 PM
I'm WAY more concerned by Bradley's injury history than his intangibles. We all know The Dusty can keep a player like Bradley in line... :cool:

jojo
12-15-2008, 05:58 PM
There is a reason why guys like Bradley, TO, Moss and others get passed from team to team while mostly producing along the way. They aren't worth it, even when they are producing.

I think the biggest reason is that no one trusts that he'll be able to stay on the field.

Cyclone792
12-15-2008, 05:59 PM
teh Dusty may be able to earn a few bucks of his salary with a guy like Bradley. If teh Dusty has so-called success being a player's manager, let's test it out.

Milton can flat rake, and his bat is precisely what this offense needs. If he calls Jeff Brantley a horse's you know what during his tenure here, then that's even more bang for the buck right there.

nate
12-15-2008, 06:02 PM
Heck, I think I'd pay extra if he stormed up to give a certain poofy-haired announcer what for. Make it an incentive.

Cyclone792
12-15-2008, 06:07 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?


We'd all agree that acquiring Albert Pujols would be a good move.

Nah, Pujols would make too much money for some people.



Never ever will be.

It's actually kind of interesting. I can look at a thread about acquiring a player, a potential trade, an actual acquisition, etc. and I can tell just by looking at the names of people who like a deal and who do not like a deal whether I'll likely like the deal. And that's without even knowing any of the players/terms of the deal.

:lol:

It's like what Puffy said when discussing who he relates to the most on RZ by stating, "Generally, I associate with the people who are right about most things and disagree with those wrong about most things."

jojo
12-15-2008, 06:09 PM
What would you rather have, a left fielder that sits in chairs in the clubhouse or one that throws them in the clubhouse?

pahster
12-15-2008, 06:11 PM
What would you rather have, a left fielder that sits in chairs in the clubhouse or one that throws them in the clubhouse?

I choose whichever is more likely to motivate his teammates through a judicious use of choking.

Roy Tucker
12-15-2008, 06:13 PM
The less risk there is, the more money you pay.

nate
12-15-2008, 06:13 PM
What would you rather have, a left fielder that sits in chairs in the clubhouse or one that throws them in the clubhouse?

It's better than shuffling them on the deck.

Ltlabner
12-15-2008, 06:17 PM
May I just say that this new "tag" feature is both pretty groovy and likely to become completely out of control.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 06:19 PM
It's like what Puffy said when discussing who he relates to the most on RZ by stating, "Generally, I associate with the people who are right about most things and disagree with those wrong about most things."

Wait, so Puffy and I "relate".

Now I'm bummed.

cincrazy
12-15-2008, 06:20 PM
Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden weren't good clubhouse guys in 1986 and the Mets did all right that year. It doesn't matter to me whether he's a good guy, or whether or not the broadcaster's and his teammates like him. If he produces, I'm all for it. I'm not saying I'd go overboard with the contract, because there's obviously risk attached. But if Dusty dealt with Barry in San Fran, he can surely deal with Milton in Cincy.

Falls City Beer
12-15-2008, 06:27 PM
May I just say that this new "tag" feature is both pretty groovy and likely to become completely out of control.

I don't get how they work.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Furcal's DUI says "hi".

Pretty ridiculous comparison, imo.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 06:53 PM
Pretty ridiculous comparison, imo.

DUI shows immaturity and bad decisions.

You've painted the Milton Bradley picture as him being immature and making bad decisions.

Furcal's DUI seems like a pretty fair comparison to your Bradley picture, IMO.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 06:53 PM
I think the biggest reason is that no one trusts that he'll be able to stay on the field.

Highly doubtful. People don't get passed around like that if they are talented and injury prone. Seven organizations by the age of 31. That is ludicrous.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 06:55 PM
Pretty ridiculous comparison, imo.

I'm sorry, but if you do time for DUI, then you have character issues.

Hopefully he's gotten himself some help, but it is one of the reasons he wasn't asked to stay in Atlanta.

membengal
12-15-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm with Cyclone. Bradley is exactly the kind of player who would seemingly be a good fit with Dusty's personality type and managerial approach. And they could use his bat. 2 years, 18 million, I would be okay with that kind of offer and he absolutely would fill a need...

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm sorry, but if you do time for DUI, then you have character issues.

Hopefully he's gotten himself some help, but it is one of the reasons he wasn't asked to stay in Atlanta.

I'm sorry as well, but there are major differences here. This guy has went after fans, umps and announcers. If Furcal had 5 DUIs, then I would agree. But one DUI is nowhere near what this travesy has rung up in his career.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm sorry as well, but there are major differences here. This guy has went after fans, umps and announcers. If Furcal had 5 DUIs, then I would agree. But one DUI is nowhere near what this travesy has rung up in his career.

Furcal has multiple DUI's

Jpup
12-15-2008, 07:26 PM
:beerme:

I would be very happy with this.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 07:34 PM
Furcal has multiple DUI's

Multiple as in 2. Just to clarify.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 07:37 PM
Multiple as in 2. Just to clarify.

Yes multiple as in 2.

How many times do you think he didn't get caught?

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 08:32 PM
Yes multiple as in 2.

How many times do you think he didn't get caught?

Now we are stretching it.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 08:36 PM
Now we are stretching it.

Guy has 2 DUI's and we're "stretching it" by calling it a character issue?

Really?

Furcal is lucky he didn't kill anyone.

cincrazy
12-15-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm sorry as well, but there are major differences here. This guy has went after fans, umps and announcers. If Furcal had 5 DUIs, then I would agree. But one DUI is nowhere near what this travesy has rung up in his career.

Oh come on now, that's blowing things out of proportion. Everyone in Texas loved the guy, he's not leaving there because they think he's a cancer. He threw a water bottle down on the warning track at the fan, but he didn't pull a Ron Artest and jump over the wall. He's yelled at umps, quite loudly, but who hasn't? He's went a little overboard, yes, but so did Pete Rose back in the day. And one time he went up to the broadcast booth to confront an announcer about a comment. We don't know what he would have done if he had reached him. It was a VERY unfair comment for the announcer to make, a blind shot out of nowhere. Bradley had turned it around in Texas to a certain extent, and was legitimately hurt that someone brought up the "bad" Milton image. He's a guy that cares, a guy that has strived to improve on the field and off, and I'd be willing to take a flier on him, especially in this clubhouse.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 08:43 PM
DUI shows immaturity and bad decisions.

You've painted the Milton Bradley picture as him being immature and making bad decisions.

Furcal's DUI seems like a pretty fair comparison to your Bradley picture, IMO.

Way too much of a pattern with this guy. Not what they need.

He would be the chalk if they posted odds on the instigator in the next Artest melee.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 08:45 PM
Guy has 2 DUI's and we're "stretching it" by calling it a character issue?

Really?

Furcal is lucky he didn't kill anyone.

You are correct in calling it a character issue and you are even more correct in saying he is lucky he didn't kill anyone. But those issues don't impact a team like Bradley's sideshow would.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 08:46 PM
Oh come on now, that's blowing things out of proportion. Everyone in Texas loved the guy, he's not leaving there because they think he's a cancer.

He will be on his 7th team in 10ish years.

I don't think they dedicated a monument to him in each city upon his departure.

KronoRed
12-15-2008, 08:47 PM
May I just say that this new "tag" feature is both pretty groovy and likely to become completely out of control.

Unfortunately you can only out 2 tags to any one topic.

But..:D you can add to old topics

wheels
12-15-2008, 08:50 PM
Milton Bradley is actually a very thoughtful, intelligent, caring and well spoken man.

He has anger issues, but he's bright enough to understand that it's something he needs to work on, and by all accounts has made a genuine effort to do so.

We should all have our foibles on display for millions of people to cast stones at us.

Let's see how we'd like it.

Raisor
12-15-2008, 08:52 PM
You are correct in calling it a character issue and you are even more correct in saying he is lucky he didn't kill anyone. But those issues don't impact a team like Bradley's sideshow would.



Except if Furcal gets caught again, he'll be doing alot more time then just a month.

I would think that would impact a team.

cincrazy
12-15-2008, 08:52 PM
Milton Bradley is actually a very thoughtful, intelligent, caring and well spoken man.

He has anger issues, but he's bright enough to understand that it's something he needs to work on, and by all accounts has made a genuine effort to do so.

We should all have our foibles on display for millions of people to cast stones at us.

Let's see how we'd like it.

:clap:

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:00 PM
Dude can hit.

A) Players on other teams?
B) Players on his team?
C) Coaches?
D) Umpires?
E) Fans?
F) Baseballs?
G) All the above?

Tom Servo
12-15-2008, 09:01 PM
All our Bradley debates could be for naught given that the Cubs are apparently heavily persuing him and I would think he'd choose Chicago over Cincinnati.

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:02 PM
The attitude is trash. That's the main reason.

If your Parents named you Milton when your last name was Bradley, wouldn't you have an attitude too?

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:04 PM
Moss helped get the Patriots to the Super Bowl. If Bradley gets the Reds win the pennant, I think he's worth it.

Win at all costs?

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:06 PM
Is there anybody that redszone agrees on?

Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Issue for the Blind edition

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:07 PM
Jim Coombs?

Nope, two people left because of Jim.

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:08 PM
He's better than Willy Taveras.

At Parker Brothers Games?

Raisor
12-15-2008, 09:10 PM
Nope, two people left because of Jim.

I've thought about it, but he'd just hunt me down and hurt me.

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:12 PM
And I think sometimes people get way too caught up on stats.

Are you trying to start a RIOT on Redszone with such statements?!? There are people on here who have stats about how much a player perspires in fluid ounces per game and how that affects their offense. And you make THAT statement!

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Milton Bradley is actually a very thoughtful, intelligent, caring and well spoken man.

He has anger issues, but he's bright enough to understand that it's something he needs to work on, and by all accounts has made a genuine effort to do so.

We should all have our foibles on display for millions of people to cast stones at us.

Let's see how we'd like it.

He can be as angry as he wants for all I care. I just think he should do it somewhere else.

I really don't feel bad for him at all.

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:17 PM
by all accounts has made a genuine effort to do so.

Sounds like you know something most don't. Care to elaborate?

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Way too much of a pattern with this guy. Not what they need.

He would be the chalk if they posted odds on the instigator in the next Artest melee.

I guess I'm just struggling to understand your agenda against Milton Bradley.

Regardless of Bradley's "character issues", as you've labeled them, Dude can rake. The Reds need dudes that can rake.

Is there something you're not telling us about Milton Bradley in regards to your vendetta against him?

Tom Servo
12-15-2008, 09:52 PM
So I was reading through some old rotoworld updates on Milton Bradley and found this interesting bit from 2005:

After receiving permission from the Dodgers, Cubs manager Dusty Baker had lunch with Milton Bradley at the outfielder's home last month.

"We had a great conversation," Baker said. "I wanted to get a good reading on him, and we covered every issue."


Edit: Also found this from the same year, something I hadn't heard before and makes me a bit more leery of Bradley.




No charges have been filed, police have responded to the Redondo Beach home of Milton Bradley three times this summer on domestic violence calls.

There was one incident in which he allegedly choked his pregnant wife, bloodied her lip and hurled a cellular telephone into a wall. Bradley wouldn't answer questions after a reporter was sent to his home yesterday. ''You come here snooping around,'' he yelled from his upstairs balcony. ''Get off my property. Write that down. Get off my property.''

Raisor
12-15-2008, 09:54 PM
"We had a great conversation," Baker said. "I wanted to get a good reading on him, and we covered every issue."

"So Milt, did you know that I'm friends with Hank Aaron?"

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:56 PM
"I wanted to get a good reading on him, and we covered every issue."

Of the Swimsuit edition?

*BaseClogger*
12-15-2008, 09:57 PM
"So Milt, did you know that I'm friends with Hank Aaron?"

:lol:

That reminds me, it's been a while since my sig was the quote which inspired my name...

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 09:59 PM
hurled a cellular telephone into a wall.

Perhaps he didn't have Verizon service. "Can you hear me now".

Dan
12-15-2008, 10:00 PM
Win at all costs?

Well, winning at little cost doesn't seem to be working out too well.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 10:19 PM
I guess I'm just struggling to understand your agenda against Milton Bradley.

Regardless of Bradley's "character issues", as you've labeled them, Dude can rake. The Reds need dudes that can rake.

Is there something you're not telling us about Milton Bradley in regards to your vendetta against him?

Vendetta? That's rich.

I guess my agenda is the same as his former employers. He isn't worth the headache.

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 10:24 PM
So I was reading through some old rotoworld updates on Milton Bradley and found this interesting bit from 2005:

After receiving permission from the Dodgers, Cubs manager Dusty Baker had lunch with Milton Bradley at the outfielder's home last month.

"We had a great conversation," Baker said. "I wanted to get a good reading on him, and we covered every issue."


Edit: Also found this from the same year, something I hadn't heard before and makes me a bit more leery of Bradley.

Here's a fun read:


Is it game over for Milton Bradley?
Comments Jul 20, 2006 5:00 AM (879 days ago) by Mychael Urban, The Examiner
SAN FRANCISCO (Map, News) - A’s general manager Billy Beane has made a mint in public-speaking engagements since the best-seller “Moneyball” chronicled his ability to take advantage of the undervalued area in the baseball talent market and turned him into a star in the business world.

When the book was being written, what was being undervalued was on-base percentage, and Beane exploited the market weakness by loading up. Now that Beane’s success has increased the value of OBP, he’s looking for weaknesses elsewhere, and what he’s apparently discovered is that so-called “problem players” are undervalued.

So he’s stocked up on them, and today the A’s are in first place in the American League West. Tough to quibble with ongoing success, right?

Wrong. One of Beane’s problem players is Milton Bradley, and he’s becoming a bigger problem by the day. And if the problem isn’t nipped in the bud, the A’s won’t be in first place much longer.

Bradley, as everyone knows, came to Oakland with more baggage that a trans-Atlantic luxury liner. He’d fought with teammates, managers and his wife and he’d had run-ins with the law and fans.

No big deal, Beane told everyone. The cohesive A’s clubhouse was strong enough to absorb Bradley, warts and all.

Bradley himself told us he was simply misunderstood. That he’s not as much of a bad boy as his reputation suggests. That he was more approachable than he seems.

Both men were wrong. Dead wrong.

Bradley has five-tool talent, which is what enticed Beane into trading away his top outfield prospect, Andre Ethier, to get him. But he also has about seven screws loose.

Until Saturday, Bradley had been on his best behavior. Of course, it’s easy to behave when you’re on the disabled list, which is where Bradley has been for most of the year.

And then came Saturday in Boston. On Friday, he came off the disabled list and put on the kind of show Beane bargained for, going 4-for-5 and making a sensational catch. On Saturday, he snapped. After screaming at Red Sox blowhard Curt Schilling for drilling Nick Swisher, Bradley turned his attention toward the fans behind the visitor’s dugout. There was much shouting and finger-pointing, and the next time Bradley came off the field, he subtly saluted said fans by grabbing his crotch.

A’s manager Ken Macha didn’t play him the next day, offering the lame reasoning that Bradley had been on the bases so much Friday that he needed to give his legs a rest. The truth is that Macha didn’t want Bradley to have to deal with the Boston fans again.

So on the A’s moved to Baltimore, where the Orioles fans aren’t exactly known for being harsh. But they certainly got under Bradley’s skin, and Bradley gave them plenty of material with one of the weakest acts seen since the World Cup ended.

After stumbling while rounding first base on Wednesday, Bradley appeared to be injured, and badly. So pronounced was his limp that he that he didn’t even try to get back to the base, so the throw from the outfield to shortstop to first base got there in plenty of time for Bradley to be tagged out.

As he was being carried off the field, it looked like Bradley was headed for another stint on the DL. But no. There must have been some kind of medical magician in the dugout, because Bradley was back out on defense the next inning, even diving for a ball.

So the fans let him have it, and rightly so.

It put a huge damper on a nice win for the A’s, and while none of his teammates would go on the record (nor would Bradley, who didn’t talk after the Boston game, either), it was clear that they are tired of Bradley’s act.

They’re also tired of Macha playing the role of enabler.

Beane is a very good GM, but he swung and missed big with Bradley — Ethier is batting .340 for the Dodgers, while Bradley is batting .249 and causing headaches. So it’s on Beane to do what Macha should have done and sit Bradley down.

For a guy who’s so big on track records, it’s puzzling why Beane would ignore Bradley’s. It was never a matter of “if” regarding blowup. It was “when?”

And when is now.


Mychael Urban is the author of “Aces: The Last Season On The Mound With The Oakland A’s Big Three — Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito” and a writer for MLB.com.


http://www.examiner.com/a-184312~Is_it_game_over_for_Milton_Bradley_.html

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 10:28 PM
Vendetta? That's rich.

I guess my agenda is the same as his former employers. He isn't worth the headache.

If it's not a vendetta, then what is it?

You seem to be caught up on his character, rather than what he does on the diamond.

Shouldn't it be more important what the guy does on the diamond?

GADawg
12-15-2008, 10:36 PM
If it's not a vendetta, then what is it?

You seem to be caught up on his character, rather than what he does on the diamond.

Shouldn't it be more important what the guy does on the diamond?

tell that to Pete. I heard freakin' TJ whatever his name lumping Charlie Hustle in with Bonds, Clemens, etc.. I hate when they do that. Apples and oranges in my estimation. Bonds was never a good ambassador for the game.

Just say no to Milton! you know what happened the last time we had Milton don't you?

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 10:42 PM
If it's not a vendetta, then what is it?

You seem to be caught up on his character, rather than what he does on the diamond.

Shouldn't it be more important what the guy does on the diamond?

Be serious.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 10:54 PM
Be serious.

I am serious.

What do you have against Milton Bradley?

RedRoser
12-15-2008, 10:57 PM
nm

edabbs44
12-15-2008, 11:12 PM
I am serious.

What do you have against Milton Bradley?

He is unstable.

He has played more than 101 games exactly twice in his career.

One of those seasons had him at an OPS+ of 108.

The other saw him have a monster year, where he DHed about 80% of the time. And, in that big season, he played in a notorious hitter's park where he posted a 1.145 OPS at home, severly swaying his numbers. He also had a babip of .388, which I am told is quite a lucky number.

So, tell me, what do you have for him?

REDREAD
12-15-2008, 11:13 PM
He'll get 2 years, likely more, from someone else. A one-year offer has no chance.

Yes, I wouldn't mind giving him a one year deal, but he's not going to agree to that.

Ibanez just got 3 years at 30 million (or something like that). Bradley should easily be able to top that.

Would you guys give Bradley 3 years, 36 million? Because I think that's the minimum it would take to get the conversation started. He's going to want to cash in and get some respect after all the bouncing around he's had to do in his career.

Jpup
12-15-2008, 11:17 PM
Yes, I wouldn't mind giving him a one year deal, but he's not going to agree to that.

Ibanez just got 3 years at 30 million (or something like that). Bradley should easily be able to top that.

Would you guys give Bradley 3 years, 36 million? Because I think that's the minimum it would take to get the conversation started. He's going to want to cash in and get some respect after all the bouncing around he's had to do in his career.

I'd give him 3/36 in a second.

corkedbat
12-15-2008, 11:17 PM
Yes, I wouldn't mind giving him a one year deal, but he's not going to agree to that.

Ibanez just got 3 years at 30 million (or something like that). Bradley should easily be able to top that.

Would you guys give Bradley 3 years, 36 million? Because I think that's the minimum it would take to get the conversation started. He's going to want to cash in and get some respect after all the bouncing around he's had to do in his career.

If Jocketty has done his homework and thinks it would work, my max would be 2yrs/$20M with a $12M optionon on a 3rd yr and a $1M buyout

REDREAD
12-15-2008, 11:17 PM
We'd all agree that acquiring Albert Pujols would be a good move.

Someone would complain about the prospects that we gave up to get Pujols and claim that the trade would come back to haunt us. Someone else would complain about how much $$ Pujols makes.

Scrap Irony
12-15-2008, 11:18 PM
Apparently, Dude can rake. An OPS over 900 also apparently means you don't have to answer for your problems, including numerous run-ins with the law, but, interestingly, a back injury means a DUI becomes a felony. No, check that-- two DUI's, a back injury, and an OPS+ of less than 125 means you may be a crack addict.

Or something like that.

Jpup
12-15-2008, 11:22 PM
Babe Ruth wasn't a saint.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 11:27 PM
He is unstable.

He has played more than 101 games exactly twice in his career.

One of those seasons had him at an OPS+ of 108.

The other saw him have a monster year, where he DHed about 80% of the time. And, in that big season, he played in a notorious hitter's park where he posted a 1.145 OPS at home, severly swaying his numbers. He also had a babip of .388, which I am told is quite a lucky number.

So, tell me, what do you have for him?

Stick him in LF and he'll rake, as he's done in the past.

We need guys that can rake in our lineup.

He's a switch hitter.

He'll be a great value as long as he's making less than $10 Mil a Year

He knows how to find 1B at or above 37% on average.

Did I mention he can rake?

REDREAD
12-15-2008, 11:31 PM
He'll be a great value as long as he's making less than $10 Mil a Year


But that's what makes it sticky though. If Ibanez got 10 million/year, Bradley is going to want more than that. Earlier I said at least 12 million/year, but he may want more than that. He may want close to what Burrell and Dunn are asking for. Of course, I don't know what he wants, but he's not going to be a "value sign" by any means. There's enough clubs bidding on him that he's going to get top dollar.

Highlifeman21
12-15-2008, 11:35 PM
But that's what makes it sticky though. If Ibanez got 10 million/year, Bradley is going to want more than that. Earlier I said at least 12 million/year, but he may want more than that. He may want close to what Burrell and Dunn are asking for. Of course, I don't know what he wants, but he's not going to be a "value sign" by any means. There's enough clubs bidding on him that he's going to get top dollar.

I agree it gets sticky.

Just b/c the Phils apparently were asleep at the switch, or out of their freakin' minds to throw that kinda coin at Raul Ibanez, doesn't mean that we should give a similar deal to Milton Bradley, even though Bradley's a better player.

... but you're right, if I'm Bradley's agent, I tell every GM that if Raul Ibanez is worth $10 Million a year to replace Pat Burrell, then my client is worth at least $12 Million a year.

... and if I'm Pat Burrell's agent, I'm telling every GM that I'm worth $15 Million a year, and that the Phils chose to go the more "economical" route in terms of both production and salary.

But if Milton Bradley's the documented problem child that edabbs makes him out to be, then his value has to be low, right? ... and teams aren't going to pay top dollar for a problem child...

CougarQuest
12-15-2008, 11:42 PM
Mychael Urban

Seriously?

Mycahael?

Wouldn't that make you have just as much of an attitude as being named "Milton Bradley"?

Next thing you know, some poor schlep will be named "Laynce".

Blitz Dorsey
12-16-2008, 12:44 AM
Bradley is coming off too good of a year. He will most definitely price himself out of the Reds' budget. If he was coming off a mediocre year, I could see it. No way it will happen after the numbers he put up last year IMO.

And even last year, he was banged up for bits and pieces of the season. I completely agree he would be a better fit with the Rays than the Cubs. And not just because I don't want to see him hit in GASP (GAsmallPark). OK, maybe that's part of it.

*BaseClogger*
12-16-2008, 12:53 AM
Another thing I know, this ain't "buying low"...

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 01:00 AM
I'd be for it with his attitude and all at this point (nothing wrong with a little fire/intimidator on your team), but medical issues bother me. If he would sign for a reasonable price or give us the ability to get out from under the rest of the contract if he cannot hold up physically then I'd consider him. Otherwise I'd move on.

edabbs44
12-16-2008, 05:41 AM
I'm sorry, but if you do time for DUI, then you have character issues.

Hopefully he's gotten himself some help, but it is one of the reasons he wasn't asked to stay in Atlanta.

But now they want him back? From rotoworld.com:


According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, the Braves have entered the bidding for Rafael Furcal, likely with a three-year proposal with a vesting option for 2012.

The Braves were expected to pursue Furcal if they traded Yunel Escobar, but that hasn't happened. Apparently, they're going for it anyway and will make the pieces fit later on. A trade of Escobar for pitching would be a possibility. Another option would be to put Furcal at second base and Kelly Johnson in left field. Furcal is expected to make a decision on his future on Tuesday. The A's, Dodgers and Royals are also believed to be in the mix.

edabbs44
12-16-2008, 06:33 AM
Stick him in LF and he'll rake, as he's done in the past.

We need guys that can rake in our lineup.

He's a switch hitter.

He'll be a great value as long as he's making less than $10 Mil a Year

He knows how to find 1B at or above 37% on average.

Did I mention he can rake?

He has talent. It was also reported that he chokes pregnant women. Lastly, he rarely plays over 100 games. Add it up and it is not worth it.

buckeyenut
12-16-2008, 08:44 AM
I'd offer 6M, 6.5M and team option for 7.5M for total of 20M deal, see if he bites.

Mario-Rijo
12-16-2008, 08:54 AM
I'd offer 6M, 6.5M and team option for 7.5M for total of 20M deal, see if he bites.

I'd go for that if it's 6 M, team option for 7.5 M. I'm not in favor of giving any current FA more than 2 years presently, except Tex under certain circumstances. I believe we will have a full youthful team as soon as next season. Frazier, Valaika and Alonso all could be starters in '10 for this team along with our current crop and that's not even thinking about guys like Dorn. Now they may not but if you fill their potential positions with 3 year deals for guys, you are screwing yourself out of filling another potential hole (money wise) when they come up.

REDREAD
12-16-2008, 10:04 AM
But if Milton Bradley's the documented problem child that edabbs makes him out to be, then his value has to be low, right? ... and teams aren't going to pay top dollar for a problem child...

I don't know. It's going to be really interested to see what he ends up getting.

Personally, I hope the Cubs do throw a lot of money and years at the guy.

Character issues aside, the guy is hard to project. He had a monster 2008. He did very well in limited time in 2007. I haven't watched the guy enough to know what happened. Did he make some kind of adjustment which allowed him to get a surge in offense? Or was he just happy or motivated by pending FA?

The guy had a monster year in Cleveland, but then really didn't play as well in LA and Oakland. I don't know if that was caused by his mood or what. That's the chance you take with signing this guy. Is he going to fall back to earth like he did in LA and Oakland? Is something going to happen to make him sulk?

I admit though, the thought of Bradley coming after Brantley and the Brennamans when they criticize him is exciting :lol:

lollipopcurve
12-16-2008, 10:17 AM
Bradley has had chronic hamstring problems. It's unlikely he'd hold up well as a regular in the outfield. He's high risk in a lot of ways -- health, $$$ and intangibles. Put him on a multiyear deal and expect that he'll string together the kind of years you're paying him for? Wishful thinking. I'd still love to see it -- it'd be entertaining -- but my guess is that the Reds go more risk-averse, given that there are several options out there for improving the offense, and it would be hard for me to argue with that approach.

Caveat Emperor
12-16-2008, 01:08 PM
Bradley has had chronic hamstring problems. It's unlikely he'd hold up well as a regular in the outfield. He's high risk in a lot of ways -- health, $$$ and intangibles. Put him on a multiyear deal and expect that he'll string together the kind of years you're paying him for? Wishful thinking. I'd still love to see it -- it'd be entertaining -- but my guess is that the Reds go more risk-averse, given that there are several options out there for improving the offense, and it would be hard for me to argue with that approach.

Enquirer headline: "Reds sign Milton to Big Contract"

Nope, don't see any way, any how, that things could go wrong.

LoganBuck
12-16-2008, 03:55 PM
I admit though, the thought of Bradley coming after Brantley and the Brennamans when they criticize him is exciting :lol:

:thumbup::thumbup:

Wheelhouse
12-17-2008, 01:50 PM
The rap on Jim Edmonds was that he had a hideous attitude and was toxic in the clubhouse. He got to St. Louis and that all changed.

Blitz Dorsey
12-17-2008, 01:53 PM
The rap on Jim Edmonds was that he had a hideous attitude and was toxic in the clubhouse. He got to St. Louis and that all changed.

Who knew a steady diet of steroids/HGH could also change a player's attitude for the better. Man that is some good stuff. 'Roid rage is a myth!

hippie07
12-17-2008, 02:48 PM
I'm really warming up the idea of Bradley if we could get him on a small contract like 2 years. This only costs of money and Dye would probably cost us similar money & Bailey, etc ... the bous is we only have Dye for 1 year.. but if Bradley does well, we could always attempt to trade him before 2010

Chip R
12-17-2008, 03:21 PM
The rap on Jim Edmonds was that he had a hideous attitude and was toxic in the clubhouse. He got to St. Louis and that all changed.


When he got there he had a manager who wouldn't put up with his crap. Here we have a manager who is more tolerant.

I'm not totally against picking up Bradley. Heck, the Reds have had players like Nuxie who went after an umpire once. Pete bumped into an umpire once too. Kevin Mitchell was no saint. The main reason I'd be against getting Bradley is because of his injury history. That said, I'd rather have a productive player for 81 games than someone who stinks for 162.

Highlifeman21
12-17-2008, 04:47 PM
When he got there he had a manager who wouldn't put up with his crap. Here we have a manager who is more tolerant.

I'm not totally against picking up Bradley. Heck, the Reds have had players like Nuxie who went after an umpire once. Pete bumped into an umpire once too. Kevin Mitchell was no saint. The main reason I'd be against getting Bradley is because of his injury history. That said, I'd rather have a productive player for 81 games than someone who stinks for 162.

Ideally, I'd like to see Bruce play 150+ games in RF. I'd like to see Dickerson platoon with someone in CF, I don't care how many games each of them plays. I'd like to see Bradley give us as many games as possible in LF, and get the needed days off from Dickerson's platoon, or another guy. If that other guy is Laynce Nix, I'm ok with that at this point.

edabbs44
02-26-2009, 08:09 PM
There is a reason why MB is on his 7th organization. We can think that OPS is OPS no matter what the situation, but in actuality it doesn't work that way. This isn't strat-o-matic.

And that lofty OPS+ was put up over seasons of 96, 61 and 126 games. Awesome, it's the second coming of Griffey circa 2003-2005. Now we just need someone to fill in the 200 missed games.

Good article by Olney today which is basically the point I was making when the Reds were mentioned regarding Milton B.


Baseball's strengthening code of conduct

Thursday, February 26, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry

A club official stood by a batting cage this spring, as some of his players hit, and he spoke with relief about how great it was to have a troublesome player out of his clubhouse.

"We'd ask the other players to do extra work, and he'd give the other guys a look, like, 'what a waste of time,'" the official said. "It's not that he's a bad person, really. It's just that he really wasn't going along with the program."

Two days earlier, an AL executive spoke of how much it meant to his club to unload a talented player with a difficult personality.

"He sucked the air out of the room," the executive said.

Talent evaluators within the game will make judgments about fastballs, about defensive skills, about a hitter's swing. But increasingly, it seems, makeup is regarded as a pivotal factor on whether a player is acquired or dumped -- and this might be part of a broader evolution in Major League Baseball, a shift in focus away from the need of the individuals, to an emphasis on the greater good of the organization.

And a lot of executives view these choices as business decisions. For a small-market or mid-market team -- clubs that operate with very little margin for error -- a problem personality can have a dramatic impact. Imagine a 16-man crew, says one GM, and you have one guy pulling his oar in the opposite direction. "It doesn't really matter what the other 15 guys are doing," the GM said. "It just sinks you. You can't win. You cannot succeed."

The most prominent example in recent years might be the Tampa Bay Rays. After the 2007 season, the Rays moved to trade outfielders Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes. Other Rays felt Young simply was on his own program, conducted himself with sense of entitlement, and simply didn't work hard enough; in one memorable moment, teammate Carl Crawford, a player with a staggering work ethic, was ready to fight Young out of his frustration that Young simply didn't try to improve. Dukes played hard, but because of his off-field issues, he seemed unhappy a lot; this sapped energy out of the room.

Young was traded to the Twins, Dukes was moved to the Nationals, and quite suddenly, the team belonged to manager Joe Maddon, who was suddenly free to focus on getting the best out of emotionally invested players and less time on keeping others in line.

The official who stood by the batting cage felt the same way, and he nodded toward an intense and energetic young player. "His voice is now becoming an important voice in our clubhouse," the official said. "He gets the other players going. But that couldn't have happened with [John Doe] here. I don't want to make [John Doe] look bad, but it's just the truth."

Last year, we saw a rash of managers' benching veterans for not hustling -- Charlie Manuel sat down Jimmy Rollins for not running out a ball, and then later for showing up late to the ballpark; Eric Wedge yanked Ryan Garko out of a game for not running out a groundball; and Maddon disciplined B.J. Upton for not hustling.

We saw the Rays' bullpen succeed down the stretch while essentially abandoning the idea of set roles for relievers; rather, Maddon and pitching coach Jim Hickey, aided by the words of injured veteran Troy Percival, managed to convince the guys in the Tampa Bay bullpen to just be prepared for when they were needed, a culture has a chance to continue into 2009.

More players are speaking out about how angry they are about the use of performance-enhancing drugs, those complaints best embodied by the words of Houston pitcher Roy Oswalt, who said flatly that he felt like Alex Rodriguez went out of bounds to cheat him of something.

The players are in a tremendous position these days, participating in a business that has a relatively strong standing. Maybe it's because the decision-makers and the players want to protect that standing. Bit by bit, there are signs that the game's internal code of conduct is strengthening.

"We're seeing a major change in the game," an AL manager said, "right before our eyes."



http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3935904&name=olney_buster

remdog
02-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Good article edabbs, especially when you relate it to some of the comments made by Dusty about Homer having a new, better attitude this spring (as is reported in another thread).

Rem

princeton
02-27-2009, 10:08 AM
The rap on Jim Edmonds was that he had a hideous attitude and was toxic in the clubhouse.

my take on Edmonds was that he was way too upbeat after team lost or screwed up, whereas the Angels as a group were very intense perfectionists. Kind of like the George Grande on a team of Marty Brennamens. More a personality conflict.

red-in-la
02-27-2009, 12:33 PM
In my brief experience as a fan (at the time) I recall that it was quite a big deal when the fighting A's managed to win the WS.....teams normally worked like a team or were lampooned in the media of the day and the manager was soon fired.

It was only when Reggie (I did it my way) Jackson and free agency made stars of Hunter and Jackson et all, that having a bunch of "individuals" was OK.

Hence the point that was made about teams with narrow margins for error. The Yankees hire enough talent that pulling together isn't necessarily needed. Using the analogy of the writer.....if you have twin mercuries pushing your vessel along, the fact that one or two guys are rowing in another direction doesn't mean much.

edabbs44
04-12-2009, 10:01 PM
The saga continues. Just happy that they didn't spend $30MM+ on this guy.


Milton Bradley left Sunday's game in the fourth inning with an apparent right leg injury.

Not even a week. Bradley, who had some trouble with his left quad during spring training, appeared to hurt his right groin tonight. Reed Johnson pinch-ran for him. If Bradley lands on the DL, then Johnson and Kosuke Fukudome would both play pretty regularly.

TheNext44
04-12-2009, 10:10 PM
The saga continues. Just happy that they didn't spend $30MM+ on this guy.

Very glad the Reds did not sign him, his injury factor bring just one problem he brings with him.

Just for accuracy, I believe that his three year contract becomes a two year deal if he does not play at least 75 games in 09. So if the injury is serious, the Cubs only spent $20M on him. Still not a good deal.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/03/heyman-on-bradl.html

I would say the curse of the goat continues, but I think no goat was needed for this blunder. Everyone could see this coming.

remdog
04-12-2009, 10:11 PM
Reed Johnson just made a terrific catch to take away a grand slam from Prince Fielder.

That's a catch that Bradley wouldn't have made, IMO.

Rem

AmarilloRed
04-13-2009, 01:37 AM
Very glad the Reds did not sign him, his injury factor bring just one problem he brings with him.

Just for accuracy, I believe that his three year contract becomes a two year deal if he does not play at least 75 games in 09. So if the injury is serious, the Cubs only spent $20M on him. Still not a good deal.

It's a 2 year deal with a 2011 12 million vesting option. The option is automatically exercised if he plays 75 games. There is a $500,000 buyout, though.

Topcat
04-13-2009, 02:07 AM
Sorry it's Milton Bradley the Sean Avery of Baseball I am so glad that act isn't playing in the Queen City.

edabbs44
04-17-2009, 12:32 PM
And if you had 4/16 as the date that the injury/ejection/potential suspension trifecta gets completed, please see the front desk for your prize.


The umpire who ejected Milton Bradley in his Wrigley Field debut Friday intends to file a report stating that the outfielder made physical contact.

Bradley is in serious danger of being suspended. He struck out looking on a full count pitch and shared a brief, but aggressive, exchange with umpire Dan Iassogna, at one point knocking the ump's hat slightly up his head. The report will be filed with the Commissioner's Office on Saturday. We'll keep you updated. Apr. 17 - 9:29 am et
Source: Cubs.mlb.com

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 12:48 PM
And if you had 4/16 as the date that the injury/ejection/potential suspension trifecta gets completed, please see the front desk for your prize.

Thats a serious suspension. How many games could he get for that?

Hoosier Red
04-17-2009, 12:51 PM
Pete got 30 back in 1988 as I recall. Stupid Dave Pallone.

edabbs44
04-17-2009, 01:33 PM
The scary part is that he is on a good team. I wonder how his demeanor would be if he was on a team that wasn't a contender?

M2
04-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Sorry it's Milton Bradley the Sean Avery of Baseball I am so glad that act isn't playing in the Queen City.

So he's only good if he plays on the Rangers?

TheNext44
04-17-2009, 01:54 PM
Pete got 30 back in 1988 as I recall. Stupid Dave Pallone.

Not to sound like a conspiracy nut, but Bart hated Rose, as the whole kicking him out of baseball sage demonstrated. That same month in 88, Billy Martin actually kicked an umpire, his fourth offense (this was Pete's first offense in his entire career, both as a player and manager), and he got less than a week.

That 30 day suspension for Pete was a joke, no other player or manager ever got anything close to that, ever. For some reason, Bart was out to get Rose, I could go on with other evidence, but it would be too off topic for this thread.

Anyway, considering that this is Bradley's umpteenth offense, I say at least week, maybe two if they really want to make a point.

westofyou
04-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Not to sound like a conspiracy nut, but Bart hated Rose, as the whole kicking him out of baseball sage demonstrated. That same month in 88, Billy Martin actually kicked an umpire, his fourth offense (this was Pete's first offense in his entire career, both as a player and manager), and he got less than a week.

That 30 day suspension for Pete was a joke, no other player or manager ever got anything close to that, ever. For some reason, Bart was out to get Rose, I could go on with other evidence, but it would be too off topic for this thread.

Anyway, considering that this is Bradley's umpteenth offense, I say at least week, maybe two if they really want to make a point.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/03/sports/pete-rose-is-suspended-30-days.html

Giamatti's action stemmed from the encounter Rose had with Umpire Dave Pallone Saturday night in the ninth inning of the Reds' game with the Mets. Following Pallone's call at first base, which allowed the Mets' eventual winning run to score in the 6-5 game, Rose argued vehemently and made physical contact with the umpire, noticeably pushing him.

Riverfront Stadium fans in the crowd of 41,032 soon joined in the conrontation, throwing objects onto the field. After about 15 minutes, Pallone left the field and the remaining three members of the umpiring crew completed the game.

The incident, Giammati said in a statement announcing the suspension and a ''substantial'' but undisclosed fine, was an ''extremely ugly situation'' and was ''one of the worst in baseball's recent memory.''

''Such disgraceful episodes are not business as usual, nor can they be allowed to become so,'' Giamatti continued. ''For forcefully and deliberately shoving an umpire, the manager of the Reds, Mr. Pete Rose, is suspended for 30 days and fined a substantial amount.''

In summoning the broadcasters for a meeting with him, the president, who in his brief term in office has exhibited a no-nonsense reaction to situations that arise on the field, said:

''Inciting the unacceptable behavior of some of the fans were the inflammatory and completely irresponsible remarks of local radio broadcasters Marty Brennaman and Joe Nuxhall. . . . There is no excuse for encouraging a situation where the physical safety and well-being of any individual is put significantly at risk. Nothing justifies such unprofessional behavior.''

Giamatti, in a telephone interview, explained that he has the right to summon Brennaman and Nuxhall because they are employees of the Reds, not of the radio station that carries the Reds' games. It is believed that this is the first time announcers have been summoned for possible disciplinary action by a league. 'My Jurisdiction'

''An employee of the club is subject to my jurisdiction,'' he said. ''I could not summon someone else's employees.''

As generally is the case, some fans at the game had radios and heard the announcers criticize Pallone both for the call at first and for his umpiring qualifications generally.

Richie Phillips, the lawyer for the umpires' union, said he believed the fans threw various kinds of objects on the field because of three factors: Rose's behavior, the announcers' comments and the presumed consumption of beer during the game. Phillips, speaking from his office in Philadelphia, said he had urged Giamatti to take swift and severe action and called the president's action ''appropriate.''

dougdirt
04-17-2009, 02:03 PM
Not to sound like a conspiracy nut, but Bart hated Rose, as the whole kicking him out of baseball sage demonstrated. That same month in 88, Billy Martin actually kicked an umpire, his fourth offense (this was Pete's first offense in his entire career, both as a player and manager), and he got less than a week.


I don't think Bart being out to get Pete resulted in him getting kicked out of baseball. That was Pete breaking the rules of baseball and being caught doing so.

TheNext44
04-17-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't think Bart being out to get Pete resulted in him getting kicked out of baseball. That was Pete breaking the rules of baseball and being caught doing so.

Completely agree with you on that. I was referring to how it was handled, and all the details.

This is not the thread to get into it, but Pete definitely dug his own grave and has no one to blame but himself. However, Bart's actions showed a definite bias against Rose.

The clearest example was the fact that Bart signed a legal contract saying that the commissioner's office would not comment on Rose's guilt or innocence, but then at the press conference he said that as "an individual, but not as the commissioner," he thought Rose was guilty. A clear violation of the contract he just signed. And there is sooooo much more (a lot of which is just as damning against Rose too).

TheNext44
04-17-2009, 02:24 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/03/sports/pete-rose-is-suspended-30-days.html

Thanks, I now do remember the whole incident including Marty getting called before the commissioner.

However, there still is no way what Rose did justified 30 days. He had nothing to do with inciting the crowd, at least nothing more than any other manager getting kicked out. Heck, I've remember Sweet Lou doing much more than Pete did to incite the crowd after getting kicked out, and he never got more than a few days.

Big Klu
04-17-2009, 03:07 PM
Does anyone know what exactly Marty and Joe said that was so inflammatory and irresponsible? I remember the game, but I don't remember Marty or Joe saying anything that made me want to participate in a riot.

westofyou
04-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Does anyone know what exactly Marty and Joe said that was so inflammatory and irresponsible? I remember the game, but I don't remember Marty or Joe saying anything that made me want to participate in a riot.

On air Marty called Pallone "Incompetent" and a "Horrible Umpire" he apologized, but refused to back off his opinion. Pallone was crappy umpire. The winning run scored while Pallone was delaying his safe call on a throw to first.

The real issue in the end was the showering of the field and the forced exit of the umpire for the duration of the game. Couple that with a shove, and some choice words from the Reds announcers and you have an incident that reeks of baseball in the 1890's, that fact was not lost on Bart G. is my best guess.

Chip R
04-17-2009, 04:09 PM
Bart loved the umpires. He liked Pallone too - perhaps because they were both Italian.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 04:24 PM
I was at that game ... and I didn't have my radio to hear anything Marty and Joe said. The fans were upset by the horrible call(and way late) and the confrontation. So few had radios at the game it wasn't anything Marty and Joe said that fired up the fans, it was Pallone himself. He was a disgrace as an umpire, bad and confrontational, and don't even go into the personal issues. Rose claimed that Pallone poked him in the face and that is why he shoved him. Pallone was every bit as aggressive during the argument as Rose was.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-17-2009, 04:45 PM
I agree. The Rose suspension was way over the top.

Chip R
04-17-2009, 04:56 PM
I agree. The Rose suspension was way over the top.


I'm no Rose apologist but I agree.

Will M
04-17-2009, 06:34 PM
I'm no Rose apologist but I agree.

ditto.

westofyou
04-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Also note that the NL President gave the suspension, which means that the AL gave Martin his for kicking (or didn't give him one) part of Buds watch tasks was to consolidate those two entities into one and get some consistency in rulings such as the Pallone incident.

remdog
04-18-2009, 02:24 PM
CHICAGO (AP) -Chicago Cubs outfielder Milton Bradley has been suspended two games for arguing balls and strikes and making contact with umpire Larry Vanover.

Rem

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2009, 11:11 AM
Cubs' Bradley: Umpires retaliating

Chicago Cubs right fielder Milton Bradley lashed out at Major League Baseball's umpires Sunday, saying they are forcing him to swing at bad pitches by widening his strike zone.

Bradley, suspended one game last month after an argument with umpire Larry Vanover, said he thought other umps were getting back at him for the incident.

"Unfortunately, I just think it's a lot of 'Oh, you did this to my colleague,' or 'We're going to get him any time we can," Bradley said, according to the Chicago Tribune. "As soon as he gets two strikes, we're going to call whatever and see what he does. Let's try to ruin Milton Bradley.'

"It's just unfortunate. But I'm going to come out on top. I always do."

Bradley said his hitting strategy would remain the same, regardless of how he feels about the pitch calling from behind the plate.

"What am I supposed to do?" he said, according to the Tribune. "You lead the American League in OPS [in 2008], and two years in the top three in the league in on-base percentage. All of a sudden now, I come to Chicago and I can't see the ball no more? I don't know a strike from a ball?

"I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. There's a lot involved, and it's a lot of politics where there's nothing you can do about it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4204044

cincrazy
05-25-2009, 11:26 AM
Cubs' Bradley: Umpires retaliating

Chicago Cubs right fielder Milton Bradley lashed out at Major League Baseball's umpires Sunday, saying they are forcing him to swing at bad pitches by widening his strike zone.

Bradley, suspended one game last month after an argument with umpire Larry Vanover, said he thought other umps were getting back at him for the incident.

"Unfortunately, I just think it's a lot of 'Oh, you did this to my colleague,' or 'We're going to get him any time we can," Bradley said, according to the Chicago Tribune. "As soon as he gets two strikes, we're going to call whatever and see what he does. Let's try to ruin Milton Bradley.'

"It's just unfortunate. But I'm going to come out on top. I always do."

Bradley said his hitting strategy would remain the same, regardless of how he feels about the pitch calling from behind the plate.

"What am I supposed to do?" he said, according to the Tribune. "You lead the American League in OPS [in 2008], and two years in the top three in the league in on-base percentage. All of a sudden now, I come to Chicago and I can't see the ball no more? I don't know a strike from a ball?

"I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. There's a lot involved, and it's a lot of politics where there's nothing you can do about it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4204044

That guy is legitimately crazy. I can't believe I wanted the Reds to go after him. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Homer Bailey
05-25-2009, 12:40 PM
That guy is legitimately crazy. I can't believe I wanted the Reds to go after him. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

X2

traderumor
05-25-2009, 12:42 PM
That guy is legitimately crazy. I can't believe I wanted the Reds to go after him. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
A brief summary of the typical symptoms of PPD (Paranoid Personality Disorder) includes:

suspiciousness and distrust of others

questioning hidden motives in others

feelings of certainty, without justification or proof, that others are intent on harming or exploiting them

social isolation

aggressiveness and hostility

little or no sense of humorI am sure you could find an article describing each symptom for Bradley over his career :(

icehole3
05-25-2009, 01:09 PM
he's a coo coo clock

edabbs44
05-25-2009, 01:17 PM
Bradley isn't worth the pain he brings.

flyer85
05-25-2009, 01:49 PM
Injury prone and slightly paranoid ... I was surprised when the Cubs signed him given his track record. They should have ignored the career season, they deserve what they get for signing him.

BCubb2003
05-25-2009, 03:40 PM
At least he understands OPS.

RedsManRick
05-25-2009, 06:10 PM
Unless his craziness makes his teammates play worse, I'll take him.

GAC
05-25-2009, 06:44 PM
No thanks. Guys like this can be more trouble then they are worth in the clubhouse.

I dumped him off my FL team pretty quick. ;)

cincrazy
05-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Unless his craziness makes his teammates play worse, I'll take him.

Well, that was my take before the season. I think Milton's problem is his craziness makes him play worse, much worse.

Ron Madden
05-25-2009, 06:48 PM
No thanks. Guys like this can be more trouble then they are worth in the clubhouse.

I dumped him off my FL team pretty quick. ;)


WOW, He must be a real pain in the butt if he went as far to cause trouble in your FL teams clubhouse.

j/k;)

GAC
05-25-2009, 06:53 PM
WOW, He must be a real pain in the butt if he went as far to cause trouble in your FL teams clubhouse.

j/k;)

He started off on the DL, and there was uncertainly as to when he was coming off. Then when he did, he started miserably.

I'm an impatient FL manager. I had other (better) options. :p:

bucksfan2
05-25-2009, 07:00 PM
Unless his craziness makes his teammates play worse, I'll take him.

I always thougth that. Give me a bunch of a holes who are great players and I will gladly take them over choir boys. However, Bradley seems like he can't get out of his own way. While no ump will ever admit to it I would imagine that Bradley never gets the benefit of the doubt.

Raisor
05-25-2009, 07:37 PM
At least he understands OPS.

Awesomesauce.

TheNext44
05-25-2009, 08:29 PM
Unless his craziness makes his teammates play worse, I'll take him.

I agree with that sentiment, team chemistry is waaaaaay overrated.

However, accusing the umps of being against you is something that can adversely affect the whole team. At the very least, you will not be getting the benefit of any close calls with him on the team.

There's crazy and then there's just plain stupid.

edabbs44
05-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Unless his craziness makes his teammates play worse, I'll take him.

The guy is on his 7th organization in 10 seasons and hasn't played for the same team for more than 3 years. He also played for GMs such as Beane, DePodesta and Shapiro in that time span.

I think that speaks for itself.

Blitz Dorsey
05-25-2009, 09:53 PM
You know what trainwrecks say to each other about weird people?

"Wow, that guy sure is a Milton Bradley."

traderumor
05-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Whether or not chemistry is overrated, I wouldn't like him having the opportunity to influence our young players with his antics and attitude.

Playadlc
06-26-2009, 07:03 PM
I was just watching Piniella's press conference after the Cubs/Sox game and Lou said that he told Bradley to take off his uniform and go home during the game after he apparently destroyed a water cooler and threw his helmet. He said that this has been a common occurrence with Bradley and he is tired of it. Piniella also said that he followed him up to the clubhouse and they exchanged some words.

You could tell by Piniella's tone that he is about done with this guy. He looked completely disgusted.

TheNext44
06-26-2009, 08:26 PM
I was just watching Piniella's press conference after the Cubs/Sox game and Lou said that he told Bradley to take off his uniform and go home during the game after he apparently destroyed a water cooler and threw his helmet. He said that this has been a common occurrence with Bradley and he is tired of it. Piniella also said that he followed him up to the clubhouse and they exchanged some words.

You could tell by Piniella's tone that he is about done with this guy. He looked completely disgusted.

Wow, Piniella and Bradley not getting along? Whodathunkit? Probably the two hardest head guys in the game. I would love to see this play out over three years.

This might make the other Milton (Eric) contract look like a bargain.

Chip R
06-26-2009, 08:29 PM
I wonder which signing Lou liked better, the Fukodome signing or the Bradley signing?

reds44
06-26-2009, 08:40 PM
I want to know why Lou picked Bradley to make an example out of when he's like the 3rd Cub to do that.

Big Klu
06-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Lou, you brought this on yourself when you signed on with the Cubs. We love you, but we don't pity you.

edabbs44
06-26-2009, 08:48 PM
I want to know why Lou picked Bradley to make an example out of when he's like the 3rd Cub to do that.

Maybe it has something to do with the common occurance part

westofyou
06-26-2009, 09:06 PM
You could tell by Piniella's tone that he is about done with this guy. He looked completely disgusted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX036rh4k2E

reds44
06-26-2009, 09:06 PM
Maybe it has something to do with the common occurance part
So you pick your ticking time bomb to make an example out of? That's just stupid.

edabbs44
06-26-2009, 09:21 PM
So you pick your ticking time bomb to make an example out of? That's just stupid.

The guy brings it upon himself. Maybe he needs someone to kick him in the rear and make an example out of him instead of putting up with his crap until you can't anymore and then just cutting him.

redsfandan
06-26-2009, 10:53 PM
People can say that chemistry is overrated and I'd probably agree with them (at least to an extent). But Bradley is a headcase that's made of glass in a very shiny expensive wrapper. The ultimate high risk/high reward player. It's been said that sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. Well I'm pretty glad the Reds didn't sign Bradley.

Tony Cloninger
06-26-2009, 10:59 PM
Bradley makes Alex Johnson look like Sean Casey

Ron Madden
06-27-2009, 03:24 AM
If I owend the Reds I'd steer very wide of players like Milton Bradley and try my best to avoid paying an overrated Manager like Lou.

I think they're both nuts.

Homer Bailey
06-27-2009, 03:41 AM
If I owend the Reds I'd steer very wide of players like Milton Bradley and try my best to avoid paying an overrated Manager like Lou.

I think they're both nuts.

But you'd rather have Dusty?

Ron Madden
06-27-2009, 03:48 AM
But you'd rather have Dusty?


Six of one, half dozen of the other.

They have both been blessed with some very talented teams and in my humble opinion they have been no more successful than the players they so often blame for their own failures.

Always Red
06-27-2009, 05:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX036rh4k2E

Pot, meet kettle.

Milton Bradley has a long way to go before he can match Lou's record for most water coolers destroyed.

GAC
06-27-2009, 07:43 AM
and try my best to avoid paying an overrated Manager like Lou.


Six of one, half dozen of the other.

They have both been blessed with some very talented teams and in my humble opinion they have been no more successful than the players they so often blame for their own failures.

Totally agree with your assessment. Especially when it comes to Lou. And I've held that position on here for the last several years. Lou has been blessed (or fortunate) to have been in the right position at the right time. I knew he was never coming back to Cincy, when those rumors were flying, because he demands an ownership to spend the big bucks and buy him his team. He accused Seattle, when their payroll was in the mid-90s, of not being committed to winning because they wouldn't up their payroll. So he leaves and goes where? To Tampa. Yes, it wasn't the easiest task to do; but they saw no progress under Lou.




2003 162 63 99 .389
2004 161 70 91 .435
2005 162 67 95 .414

Lou doesn't build teams. He expects them to be built and ready to go when he gets there. Chicago was a perfect fit for him (I guess).

redsfandan
06-27-2009, 04:07 PM
Bradley says Piniella insulted him Saturday, June 27, 2009 ESPNChicago.com

CHICAGO -- Milton Bradley said before the second game of the Chicago Cubs' series against the White Sox on Saturday that he didn't have the same set of rules as his other teammates.

According to the Chicago Tribune Web site, Bradley said: "I don't have the same set of rules as other people," in response to a question about whether he has been singled out by manager Lou Piniella.

"Because of the mistakes I've made in my career, I don't get the leeway other guys get to a certain extent," Bradley added.

Bradley also said that Piniella called him a "piece of [expletive]," during the conversation, according to the Web site.

Piniella said he has apologized for the remark but added he was upset it was leaked to reporters, according to the Tribune.

"I also told him we can't continue to have the shenanigans," Piniella said.

Bradley is batting third and playing right field in Saturday's game at U.S. Cellular Field.

Cubs officials said they were concerned about the alleged leaking of the confrontation by White Sox security. White Sox officials denied the accusations, according to the Tribune.
I don't know how long Piniella is signed for but Bradley is under contract to the Cubbies through 2011.

camisadelgolf
06-27-2009, 04:32 PM
Piniella is signed through the end of the 2010 season since the Cubs already picked up the option back in September. However, Bradley's 2011 option doesn't technically activate until he plays about 19 more games.

edabbs44
07-22-2009, 08:22 AM
Milton Bradley's 2011 Option Vests
By Tim Dierkes [July 21 at 8:57pm CST]

Cubs right fielder Milton Bradley made a pinch-hit plate appearance in the 11th inning against the Phillies tonight, marking his 75th game played in 2009. The significance? The games played milestone caused his 2011 option, worth $12MM, to vest.

Bradley's Cubs career has been a disappointment so far. His .372 OBP is fine, but he's slugging only .369 and showing nothing as a left-handed hitter. He's also been a negative on defense, based on UZR/150 (though we're only working with 527 innings).

CTA513
07-22-2009, 02:03 PM
Lou also came out and said hes still looking for a left handed bat.

:laugh:

edabbs44
07-27-2009, 03:30 PM
Does anyone still think that Walt should have went after this guy?


Buzzkill Milton Bradley

If there was any inclination to write happily about the Cubs’ moving into first place for the first time since April, Milton Bradley killed it.

The guy who has been stealing money all season is now doing what he can to steal enthusiasm and whatever little satisfaction might exist, taking shots at the media and the fans. Firing on the media is fine. Go ahead. We’re big boys.

But taking shots at the fans and treating them dismissively is just plain stupid.

Or standard Bradley stuff, apparently.

See, it’s always someone else’s fault with Bradley, in case you haven’t noticed in the short time that he has been here to do what he can to ruin a seemingly indestructible Cubbie buzz.

As usual with the guy whose motto must be “Surly to bed, surly to rise," Bradley offered some comments on sweeping Dusty Baker’s typically bad team and jumping over the dreaded Cardinals:

"It's nice, but I don't think we're going to get any nicer articles written about us," Bradley said. "But we're in first place, so you can't find a negative in that."

Here’s a tip, pal: Nice articles are easier to come by when you don’t sound like a self-pitying brat. Just saying.

And I’d say that wondering facetiously about whether there would be nicer articles written would be finding a negative. Just saying.

But wait. There’s more from Milton The Miserable, talking about how little being in first place means even after the inadequacies and injuries the Chicago Cubs have suffered while getting surprising and clutch contributions from Iowa Cubs:



"Am I going to get more cheers now?" Bradley asked, and I’m wondering, do you want cheers for each of your two RBIs since the All-Star break or a big standing O for both of them bunched together?

But wait. There’s still more from Badmouthing Bradley:

"Are we going to stop getting bashed by everybody, articles about our lineup and how it was better last year and all that garbage. Last year's team is sitting at home, just like everyone else. There's just one champion."

First, the Cubs’ lineup Sunday included seven players from last year's team, a lineup that tacked on runs the way the manager wants.

Second, Bradley was cheered after making a nice headfirst slide into home in the third and a running catch of a foul ball in the fifth.

"I don't notice it," he said.

The guy takes shots at fans for not cheering arguably the biggest free-agent failure in baseball this season, and then says he doesn’t hear the cheers. ‘Course, the guy has trouble counting to three, so perhaps noticing cheers is asking way too much.

And third, that stuff about “how our lineup was better last year and all that garbage," it’s hard to imagine the articles being as much garbage as what the Cubs are getting for their $30 million on Bradley, but here’s the thing:

It’s not the articles, pal. It’s the manager. Lou Piniella. ‘Member him, Milton? Your batting coach. The guy who called you a “piece of [naughty word]." Yes, well, anyway, recently he told WGN-AM 720 that it’s “baffling, it really is. Look, we've been patient with this, really patient, and we've tried every combination that we have. I've run out of explanations. The problem is, we don't have the same pieces on the offensive side of things. My first year here (2007), we had to make some changes. But we had some pieces in place. Now, you know, we've run out of those pieces."

Oh, and it was the manager who said the team still needs a left-handed bat -- you know, Milton, the kind of left-handed bat that you haven’t provided. So, there you go, pal. Direct your comments about “garbage" to your manager.

Then again, perhaps we shouldn’t expect Bradley to pay attention to who’s saying what. After all, the guy has had enough trouble just counting to three.



http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/07/buzzkill-bradley.html

Always Red
07-27-2009, 07:26 PM
Does anyone still think that Walt should have went after this guy?



http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/07/buzzkill-bradley.html

haha- I think Rosenbloom doth protest too much...

KoryMac5
08-26-2009, 11:57 PM
Milton and the Cubbies continue their Wrigley Field Love Fest:


The Cubs' inevitable plans to rework their underachieving roster under new ownership should probably start with an effort to move Milton Bradley and whatever they can of the $21 million left on the final two years of his contract.

And by the sounds of it, Bradley would welcome it.

In response to a mundane postgame question about feeling more comfortable - presumably at the plate - following his four-hit night, Bradley revealed that he's never comfortable here and talked about dealing with ``hatred'' daily.

``It's never comfortable,'' he said after going 4 for 4 with a homer in Tuesday's 15-6 loss. ``It's hard to be comfortable when you don't get a hit and get booed every time. When I go home and look in the mirror, I like what I see. My family's there. I have people I can talk to who are very supportive in spite of everything and all the adversity and hatred you face on a daily basis. But I'll be all right. I always have.''

Hatred? It would seem he's referring to that booing and possibly criticism in the media.

Hatred? Come on.

Building an off-season around a $30 million acquisition at the expense of some key depth players only to watch the new guy fail to deliver and the lack of depth become costly deserves criticism - whether aimed at the player or the organization. And maybe it deserves a fair share of those boos.

But that's about the player, not the person.

Unless there's something more than Bradley's telling us about the source of this ``hatred,'' then he has only himself to blame for making it that personal.

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 02:18 AM
"All I'm saying is I pray the game is nine innings, so I can go out there the least amount of time possible and go home," Bradley said.
What a gamer.

reds44
08-27-2009, 03:03 AM
Would be the Reds 2nd best hitter this year, 3rd if you include Rolen. I'd take him and his .391 OBP in LF next year.

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 03:15 AM
You want him? You can have him. But I hope the Reds are smarter than that.

edabbs44
08-27-2009, 08:04 AM
Would be the Reds 2nd best hitter this year, 3rd if you include Rolen. I'd take him and his .391 OBP in LF next year.

Yeah, because he is worth $10MM per year.

Come on, there is more to this game than just looking at the OBP column.

KoryMac5
08-27-2009, 11:21 AM
Miserable Milton is absolutely the perfect present for obnoxious Cubs fans. May they grow old together over the next 2 years.

OnBaseMachine
09-20-2009, 06:16 PM
Bradley suspended for rest of season
By Paul Sullivan

ST. LOUIS -- For this season, it's game over for Milton Bradley.

The outspoken outfielder, who took shots at the Cubs in a Saturday interview with the Daily Herald, has been suspended for the rest of the season, according to general manager Jim Hendry.

"The last few days became too much for me to tolerate," Hendry said.

"I'm certainly not going to let our great fans become excuses," Hendry said. "I'm not going to tolerate not being able to answer questions from the media respectably."

This came after Bradley's encounter Thursday when reporters asked Bradley about taking himself out of the game without a pinch runner ready following a hit. The scene played out like this:

Reporters: What happened with the injury?

Bradley: "I'm not talking about that. What else you got?"

Reporters: Why did you come out?

Bradley: "I got knee inflammation. I got two knee surgeries. That happens when you got knee surgery, in case you don't know. What else you got?"

Reporters: How long will you be out?

Bradley: "What else you got? Anything significant?"

This went on and on until Bradley turned his back, ending the interview.

Bradley is not with the team as the Cubs prepare for a 7:05 p.m. game against the division-leading Cardinals.

The Cubs signed the oft-moved Bradley to a three-year, $30 million contract in the off-season but are expected to try to trade him this off-season after one disappointing campaign on the North Side.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/09/bradley-not-with-cubs-hendry-will-address-team.html

Bradley enjoying Cubs? 'Not really'
By Bruce Miles | Daily Herald Staff

ST. LOUIS - Milton Bradley was a late scratch from Saturday's Cubs lineup, and it appears he's scratching himself from the team's future plans more and more each day.

In a brief one-on-one interview Saturday with the Daily Herald, Bradley talked of his unhappiness and said, "you understand why they haven't won in 100 years here."

Bradley, whom the Cubs signed to a three-year, $30 million contract last off-season, has been at the center of controversy for much of this season.

On the field, he is batting .257 with 12 home runs, 40 RBI and an on-base percentage of .378.

Lately, he's been bothered by inflammation in his left knee, which apparently is why he was scratched from Saturday's game.

When approached, Bradley said he didn't want to talk about his knee.

When asked if he was disappointed in his own performance, he didn't want to answer that, either.

"I'm not talking about that," he said. What do you think I did?"

Bradley claimed to have no opinion on where he bats - "In the lineup," he said of his preferred spot - and the only time he became expansive at all was when he was asked if he had enjoyed his first season in Chicago.

"Not really," he said. "It's just not a positive environment. I need a stable, healthy, enjoyable environment. There's too many people everywhere in your face with a microphone asking the same questions repeatedly. Everything is just bashing you. You got out there and you play harder than anybody on the field and never get credit for it. It's just negativity.

[b]"And you understand why they haven't won in 100 years here, because it's negative. It's what it is."

Asked whether he was talking about the fans, the media or even the Cubs organization, he replied: "It's everything. It's everybody."

However, he would not go so far as to say he regretted coming to Chicago.

"No, I made the decision," he said. It is what it is."

General manager Jim Hendry most likely will try to trade Bradley this off-season. When asked if the thought he'd be back, Bradley said: "Who knows?"

The Cubs signed the switch-hitting Bradley to provide some left-handed production in their batting order. As a left-handed batter, Bradley has batted .234, compared with .324 right-handed.

Bradley was suspended earlier this season for allegedly bumping an umpire after striking out as a pinch hitter in his Wrigley Field debut.

In a June game against the Twins at Wrigley Field, he lost track of the outs and threw the ball into the stands with men on base after making a catch. He and manager Lou Piniella got into a shouting match at U.S. Cellular Field in June, and Piniella apologized for calling Bradley a name.

Bradley has been booed frequently at Wrigley Field this season

Last month, he talked of not being "comfortable" because of the "adversity and hatred" he said he faces.

Asked to clarify those comments the next day, he said: "All I'm saying is I just pray the game is nine innings so I can be out there the least amount of time as possible and go home."

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=322741

Highlifeman21
09-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Good luck trading Milton Bradley with that contract.

Chip R
09-20-2009, 06:22 PM
He's the gift that keeps on giving.

RedsManRick
09-20-2009, 07:36 PM
Mike Lincoln and Willy Taveras for Bradley and cash. He might be a first class pain in the butt but at least he produces.

Brutus
09-20-2009, 07:42 PM
Mike Lincoln and Willy Taveras for Bradley and cash. He might be a first class pain in the butt but at least he produces.

I have my limits. I think there are such things in sports as clubhouse cancers. Though I think the concept is overblown, Bradley is the textbook, clinical definition of a distraction. Even ridding of Taveras might not make it worth a trade for me (LOL).

EDIT: Well, on second thought, if there's anything that could change my mind, it might be just that.

edabbs44
09-20-2009, 07:42 PM
Mike Lincoln and Willy Taveras for Bradley and cash. He might be a first class pain in the butt but at least he produces.

Sorry, but you are 100% off the mark on this one.

lollipopcurve
09-20-2009, 07:46 PM
2 years and 20 million left on that contract? He can't stay healthy or happy.

The Reds would have to be nuts to take that on.

marcshoe
09-20-2009, 07:57 PM
Mike Lincoln and Willy Taveras for Bradley and cash. He might be a first class pain in the butt but at least he produces.

I'll buck the trend and agree, if the cash is big enough. The degree to which Taveras weakens the Cubs would be worth it in itself. So, he has
http://s.ecrater.com/stores/106100/4a3e8adb9dbd2_106100n.jpgs. If he produces, he helps the
http://www.kidzworld.com/img/upload/article/30703/operation-185.jpg.
If his
http://www.bigkidcollectables.com/catalog/senanigans.jpg
cause too much
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Potpourri%20Page/game-trouble.jpg
and
http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5147145/255672-main_Full.jpg,
well, that's
http://www.therockgrouplive.com/blog/media/1/20090609-Game%20of%20LIFE.jpg.

RedsManRick
09-20-2009, 08:01 PM
2 years and 20 million left on that contract? He can't stay healthy or happy.

The Reds would have to be nuts to take that on.

The Reds should be considering any opportunity for arbitrage. I don't believe that his attitude makes other players play worse. And when he was healthy enough to play, he gave the Cubs 1.3 wins worth of production.

Lincoln & Taveras are $6.5M next year. Add in $1.5M in cash and that's 2 years for $12M net.

Brutus
09-20-2009, 08:09 PM
The Reds should be considering any opportunity for arbitrage. I don't believe that his attitude makes other players play worse. And when he was healthy enough to play, he gave the Cubs 1.3 wins worth of production.

Lincoln & Taveras are $6.5M next year. Add in $1.5M in cash and that's 2 years for $12M net.

I do actually believe there's a psychological affect on players that are in a bad environment. I know there are sports psychologists that feel that way.

But that point aside, Bradley is a loaded pistol. You can't have guys shooting off at his teammates, organization, coaches, etc. More importantly, you can't be in a season not knowing when he will take himself out of an important game.

I just think it's a real bad idea, especially with that salary. He'll be given an outright release this offseason when the Cubs can't unload him. If the Reds want to take a chance on him, they might be able to sign him to a minor league deal and see how he behaves. Then they can gauge the risk and whether it's worth it.

Raisor
09-20-2009, 08:29 PM
If the Reds go after Bradley, then they had to think that Dunn was doing Mike Vick type activities.

Degenerate39
09-20-2009, 08:35 PM
This year the Cub fans will blame the season's failures on Bradley

Highlifeman21
09-20-2009, 08:36 PM
This year the Cub fans will blame the season's failures on Bradley

But of course they will

TheNext44
09-20-2009, 08:43 PM
The Reds should be considering any opportunity for arbitrage. I don't believe that his attitude makes other players play worse. And when he was healthy enough to play, he gave the Cubs 1.3 wins worth of production.

Lincoln & Taveras are $6.5M next year. Add in $1.5M in cash and that's 2 years for $12M net.

No way to know if you are right about this, but the Expos, Indians, Dodgers, A's, Rangers, and now Cubs all think otherwise.

Being suspended with just two weeks left in the season speaks volumes. Why ban him from the team if you don't think he is making other players play worse, or at least hurting your team's chances at winning?

If this was an isolated incident, maybe, but when 5 teams decide that no matter your production, the team is better off without you, it's hard to ignore that.

edabbs44
09-20-2009, 08:53 PM
It blows my mind that anyone would want this guy on the team.

RedsManRick
09-20-2009, 09:14 PM
No way to know if you are right about this, but the Expos, Indians, Dodgers, A's, Rangers, and now Cubs all think otherwise.

Being suspended with just two weeks left in the season speaks volumes. Why ban him from the team if you don't think he is making other players play worse, or at least hurting your team's chances at winning?

If this was an isolated incident, maybe, but when 5 teams decide that no matter your production, the team is better off without you, it's hard to ignore that.

Because he's a headache you simply don't want to deal with any more and you have no shot at making the playoffs. I'm not saying I want him on the Reds per se', just that I'd rather have a crazy guy who produces than two sane ones who don't.

Spring~Fields
09-20-2009, 09:27 PM
It blows my mind that anyone would want this guy on the team.

It happens. Just think, someone wanted Patterson, Tevaras, Nix, and McDonald on the Reds too.

Does Chicago have to pay this guy even if he doesn't play for them next year or will they try to ship his problems off to someone else?

Brutus
09-20-2009, 09:34 PM
It happens. Just think, someone wanted Patterson, Tevaras, Nix, and McDonald on the Reds too.

Does Chicago have to pay this guy even if he doesn't play for them next year or will they try to ship his problems off to someone else?

Unless he's claimed off waivers or traded, they have to pay him regardless (with exception to if/when he's suspended for cause).

marcshoe
09-20-2009, 09:38 PM
At this point, how much of a chance is there of other teams just waiting for the Cubs to let him go? Their options would seem to be limited; there's no way he returns next year.

It'll be interesting to see who he ends up playing for in 2010.

Brutus
09-20-2009, 09:40 PM
Because he's a headache you simply don't want to deal with any more and you have no shot at making the playoffs. I'm not saying I want him on the Reds per se', just that I'd rather have a crazy guy who produces than two sane ones who don't.

I think Ochocinco is a bit crazy. I think Milton Bradley might be certifiably insane.

Spring~Fields
09-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Unless he's claimed off waivers or traded, they have to pay him regardless (with exception to if/when he's suspended for cause).

Thanks for answering that. Seems like a tough mess at first glance. I guess the parties will work out something.

Topcat
09-21-2009, 12:13 AM
Walk away from this guy. He is a bonafide car wreck as a human and baseball player.

MrCinatit
09-21-2009, 02:03 AM
Looking at his mentality and his numbers, he is nowhere near worth it. Frankly, I don't see the productivity being anywhere near worth it, talent-wise, he looks only slightly above middle of the road. But, throw in his personality, and I find him to be completely worthless. Add in his age and contract, and he becomes a huge negative.

WVRedsFan
09-21-2009, 02:11 AM
Looking at his mentality and his numbers, he is nowhere near worth it. Frankly, I don't see the productivity being anywhere near worth it, talent-wise, he looks only slightly above middle of the road. But, throw in his personality, and I find him to be completely worthless. Add in his age and contract, and he becomes a huge negative.

Agreed. If we're looking for "pop" that is reliable, we're going to have to pay for it. Something that is not understood by this front office. We'd rather hope for McDonald to "come around." Drives me nuts.

redsfandan
09-21-2009, 08:53 AM
The Reds should be considering any opportunity for arbitrage. I don't believe that his attitude makes other players play worse. And when he was healthy enough to play, he gave the Cubs 1.3 wins worth of production.

Lincoln & Taveras are $6.5M next year. Add in $1.5M in cash and that's 2 years for $12M net.
Pretty sure 1.3 wins of production is worth less than what he was paid this year. The guy just can't stay on the field enough to justify the money/headache. We need a shortstop ALOT more than this guy.

edabbs44
09-21-2009, 09:07 AM
Because he's a headache you simply don't want to deal with any more and you have no shot at making the playoffs. I'm not saying I want him on the Reds per se', just that I'd rather have a crazy guy who produces than two sane ones who don't.

His production is vastly overrated. He isn't a lock to produce anything except non-game related headline stories.

flyer85
09-21-2009, 10:21 AM
It blows my mind that anyone would want this guy on the team.

Anyone with a modicum of sense could see a train wreck was coming. I guess that must rule out the Cubs GM.

Chip R
09-21-2009, 10:24 AM
Anyone with a modicum of sense could see a train wreck was coming. I guess that must rule out the Cubs GM.


One could - and has - said the same thing about Willie T.

flyer85
09-21-2009, 10:51 AM
One could - and has - said the same thing about Willie T.
without a doubt ... albeit for different reasons.

Scrap Irony
09-21-2009, 12:46 PM
How about this hypothetical?

Reds deal Cordero, Taveras, Lincoln

Cubs deal $2 million, Bradley and Zambrano

Takers?

I would in a heartbeat.

TheNext44
09-21-2009, 01:06 PM
One could - and has - said the same thing about Willie T.

C. Trent actually thinks the Taveras signing was better than the Bradley signing.


* Oh, Milton Bradley. Seriously, that signing makes the Willy Taveras signing look good.

Although it's kinda like deciding whose more annoying, Spencer Pratt or Kanye West?