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View Full Version : Castellini = MUCH worse???



BurgervilleBuck
12-16-2008, 02:08 PM
I found this rant (http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/whodeyrevolution/2008/12/the-11-worst-possible-gifts-to-give-a-bengals-fan.html) over on in the comments section of a Who Dey Revolution? I'm perplexed by this comment...

(WARNING: There is some foul language involved (edited out here) because, y'know, football fans can't express themselves without invoking the Carlin 7).


I have heard Catellini's name be invoked -- oh now there's a winner! May I remind you of where the Cincinnati Reds finished in their division? Just because a new owner comes to the fray is not a guarantee that the team is going to turn over a new leaf with a signing by the pen! READ MY LIPS: 'It just doesn't happen that way!' In fact, since Castellini took over, things have gotten MUCH worse for the Cincinnati Reds -- so all of you that are out there touting Castellini -- open your eyes a second and just perform a cursory examination of his 'reign' and if you still think he is the baseball messiah -- the one put up to end all the misery that is the Reds... ...go see a shrink because you are not living in reality. While you're at it, I would be willing to bet that you thought the same thing when 'Uncle Carl' took over the Reds -- same situation as Castellini -- but with even more capital -- and he pretty much bottomed out the franchise -- until Castellini proved he could go even lower!

I was intrigued by the "MUCH worse" comment and, according to my calculations, the Reds under Lindner had a 48% winning percentage while Castellini's limited sample was 47%. One percent worse.

So I ask you... MUCH worse? I've always felt that Castellini had a much better idea and yearn for winning than Brown does. Heck, Castellini has a GM so he's one up right there.

Thoughts?

redsfanmia
12-16-2008, 03:19 PM
Big Bob needs to show patience and stay with a program instead of having 3 general managers in less than 5 years. I am of the opinion that Big Bob is an average owner at best.

Carin4Narron
12-16-2008, 03:42 PM
Castellini=Much worse??? Answer YES!!!!!!!!!

I(heart)Freel
12-16-2008, 03:42 PM
BCast shows emotion... is excited about winning, gets pi$$ed about losing, and unfortunately shows lack of patience because he wants to win so badly.

I'll take that any day of the week over bean counters (Lindner) and nepotistic Scrooges (Brown).

Now that Bob has a GM he trusts implicitly and that GM has a plan, I have a feeling the Reds are on the right track. Health, luck and what the competition does factors into whether the Reds can be winners, but I think they're definitely on the right track. And a track that *should* produce contenders for an extended period of time.

Is there more for which you can ask?

Orenda
12-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Big Bob needs to show patience and stay with a program instead of having 3 general managers in less than 5 years. I am of the opinion that Big Bob is an average owner at best.

I agree w/ that, but I do think he is better than Lindner. He has risen the payroll but not all of the signings they have made have been resourceful. I also give him a lot of credit for opening up the checkbook Internationally even though I'm not sure how wise it is to throw money at a 16 year old. He was willing to spend to get most of the top draft picks signed last season which is also encouraging.

Orodle
12-16-2008, 03:51 PM
anyone who thinks Big Bob is worse needs to have their head examined or just doesnt know anything about baseball. He wants to win and has been willing to dish out more money than previous owners...what more do you want?

redsfanmia
12-16-2008, 04:44 PM
anyone who thinks Big Bob is worse needs to have their head examined or just doesnt know anything about baseball. He wants to win and has been willing to dish out more money than previous owners...what more do you want?

He is not much better than Uncle Carl. I like what he is doing with the international program and I like the way he is spending on scouting. The payroll is what it is, we are never going to be in the upper echelan so improving the farm system and scouting should be Big Bob's main concern. I do like the way he is trying to improve the dull GABP, I just wish he was the owner when it was being built.

redsfandan
12-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Much worse? I'd definitely take him over Mike Brown anyday. Yes the Reds have had way too many managers and general managers since the Big Red Machine days but Castellini has only been owner for a few years so I can't really get on him for that. And yes the Reds still haven't had a winning season but I think most would agree that the team/farm system is in much better shape than a few years ago and did people really think the franchise would do a 180 overnight?

People can criticize Castellini for this, that, and whatever but Imo, he's a definite improvement over the previous 20+ years of Lindner and Marge. Lindner became owner to make sure the team stayed in Cincy and that's about it. Marge had her good points but she screwed up the farm system. Under Castellini the farm system has improved, the Reds now have a legit shot at a winning season, and he's in for the long haul. I can't complain.

Captain Hook
12-16-2008, 07:16 PM
The Reds don't seem to be ran that bad. For any team to win in baseball you need the players. In order to have the players you either need a ton of $$$$ or a great GM that has game plan and the patients to stick with it. Bob C has made 1 mistake with WK. The $$$$ thrown away last year on poor signings cannot happen. Freel(4mil), Patterson(3mil) and some other contracts they had to eat probably cost the team around 10 mil in 08. It would be one thing if any of those guys helped a little but instead they hurt the team.10 million out the window gets you fired in a small to mid market.WJ seems to have cleaned up some of the mess but still has work to do, but the Reds seem to have a future.

Ghosts of 1990
12-16-2008, 07:18 PM
I think Bob C has gotten a lot of us to drink the Kool Aid, but at the end of the day; and at the end of this offseason we're going to show up and play with a bunch of kids--while everyone here seemed to think we'd be major players, just like last year everyone thought we'd be MAJOR players; and all we did was trade Hamilton.

Castellini doesn't really wanna shell out the money all that bad. He wouldn't have allowed Dunn to be traded if he was about shelling out money. He'd pay the young guys while they were young if he was for real. He's trying to wheel and deal on the run here. Thats the kind of owner he is. He's not about going for the whole shebang so don't be fooled into thinking he is. We have a short window here to compete IF a few of these youngsters turn out to be consistent superstars and have career years early in their 20's. If not, we're destined to continue to be horrible and the cycle will continue. This team hasn't went out and got a marquee name in a very very very long time. Been almost 10 years (Griffey). Castellini acts like he's going to make that move, he's been gonna make that move for a couple years now and it hasn't happened. I'm finally starting to see Castellini ownership group for what it is.

redsfandan
12-16-2008, 08:25 PM
So JayBruce32, you're not jaded by any chance are ya? ;)

Edd Roush
12-16-2008, 11:00 PM
Stating that any owner in any professional sport is worse than Mike Brown is nothing but a complete and utter crock. Mike Brown is in a class of his own when it comes to ineptitude. Why else would diehard fans purchase billboards to voice the level of their displeasure?

I personally like Bob Castellini as an owner. He has really done work to lay the groundwork for this franchise. He spent more than any owner last year on international players, handed out big bucks to draft picks and increased the major league payroll. Do I like that he played a part in Dusty Baker being here? No, but I do like the level of enthusiasm he has brought to owning the Reds. It's way too early to put any definitives on his success as an owner, but right now I am very okay with him.

redsfanmia
12-17-2008, 05:40 AM
Stating that any owner in any professional sport is worse than Mike Brown is nothing but a complete and utter crock. Mike Brown is in a class of his own when it comes to ineptitude. Why else would diehard fans purchase billboards to voice the level of their displeasure?

I personally like Bob Castellini as an owner. He has really done work to lay the groundwork for this franchise. He spent more than any owner last year on international players, handed out big bucks to draft picks and increased the major league payroll. Do I like that he played a part in Dusty Baker being here? No, but I do like the level of enthusiasm he has brought to owning the Reds. It's way too early to put any definitives on his success as an owner, but right now I am very okay with him.

Donald Sterling says hello.

Red in Atl
12-17-2008, 10:59 AM
Looks to me like a guy who is having buyers remorse, and now he's looking at anything and anyone to blame to make the pain go away. But you know what dude, stupidity, can't be *****ed away or blamed away. And buying season tickets to the Bengals is just plain stupid.

As long as Mike Brown owns the team, they will not be a competitive force in the NFL. Mike Brown went to Harvard. He did not play football. He runs the team without a GM. You do the math. Oh that's right, you root for the Bengals, math in not your forte!

BTW, I root for the Bengals too, from another state. I would never buy season tickets. I would never put a penny in Mike Browns pockets. I would love to punch him in the face though.

Personally I think the NFL should take away the team, just like MLB tried to take the team from Marge. The difference being this is deserved. Marge was run out of baseball for being a woman. MB should be run out for not putting a product on the field that is NFL worthy. I mean have you watched these guys this year?

I sit in my local sports bar periodically, and just watch in disbelief. Then the anger grows, and I start to cuss, and make fun of them then I just fall into hysterical laughter at each pathetic play after the other.

At least I don't try to make the other professional team in the city my scapegoat.

BC finally has all the parts he wanted in place. As long as he lets the baseball guys do their baseball stuff, he will eventually be GM of the Year in baseball.

Let's see Mike Brown do that.

Hint: Hire Cowher to run all football operations, keep Lewis as Defensive Coordinator. Lock MB up in a dark room.

I(heart)Freel
12-17-2008, 11:07 AM
I think Bob C has gotten a lot of us to drink the Kool Aid, but at the end of the day; and at the end of this offseason we're going to show up and play with a bunch of kids--while everyone here seemed to think we'd be major players, just like last year everyone thought we'd be MAJOR players; and all we did was trade Hamilton.

Castellini doesn't really wanna shell out the money all that bad. He wouldn't have allowed Dunn to be traded if he was about shelling out money. He'd pay the young guys while they were young if he was for real. He's trying to wheel and deal on the run here. Thats the kind of owner he is. He's not about going for the whole shebang so don't be fooled into thinking he is. We have a short window here to compete IF a few of these youngsters turn out to be consistent superstars and have career years early in their 20's. If not, we're destined to continue to be horrible and the cycle will continue. This team hasn't went out and got a marquee name in a very very very long time. Been almost 10 years (Griffey). Castellini acts like he's going to make that move, he's been gonna make that move for a couple years now and it hasn't happened. I'm finally starting to see Castellini ownership group for what it is.

1) Trading Hamilton got us Volquez, one of the elite young arms in the league.

2) BCast spent serious cash internationally AND on our first draft pick, a player many teams shied away from because he was rumored to be unsignable. Seems to me Bob *does* want to shell out money.

3) Maybe shipping Dunn out had less to do with payroll and more to do with finding a right handed bat to complement young, cheap and lefthanded Votto and Bruce

4) Um, you don't pay young guys... that's the point. You attain young talent because they're relatively cheap for a few years and you control them.

5) If our minor leagues keep kicking out talent, theres no reason to think we have a small window, as you claim. That's part of the reason for optimism, actually. Look at Oakland. They'll let pricey free agents go because they know they have players coming up in the system to replace them. What do they get for the departed free agents? More prospects!

6) Marquee name players are overrated. I read recently that no team in the last 20 years won with one player making over 15 percent of the total payroll. That's telling.


Sorry, Brucey. I'll drink the Koolaid. I rather like the taste.

DTCromer
12-17-2008, 11:19 AM
The difference between Mike Brown and Castellini is that Cast's first priority is winning.

mound_patrol
12-17-2008, 11:42 AM
I think B Cast and company will put a winner on the field in no time. Especially if he lets Walt do his thing. My only big knock with Cast is I believe he is a major reason why Dusty is our current manager.

redsfanmia
12-17-2008, 01:25 PM
The difference between Mike Brown and Castellini is that Cast's first priority is winning.

I dont believe that priority #1 is winning, I think that is not losing money then second or third is winning.

CesarGeronimo
12-17-2008, 03:10 PM
I think Castellini is a big improvement because I believe he is committed to winning. But I do question whether he knows what he's doing. Hiring Dusty Baker was a huge mistake that needs to be corrected. Jocketty is a GM who can build a winning team in Cincy, I think, but Dusty is going to make that difficult by telling young hitters they need to be overly aggressive at the plate (no clogging), by making absurd decisions like batting his lowest OBP player leadoff, and by endangering his pitchers (and millions of dollars invested) by the way he uses them. So I support Bob C., but I can't say that he's doing a good job until he removes this outdated, misfit manager who built whatever winning reputation he has with talented teams that underachieved.

DTCromer
12-17-2008, 03:46 PM
I dont believe that priority #1 is winning, I think that is not losing money then second or third is winning.

Were you a Reds fan during Linder's era? His first priority was making money. Castellini wants to make money, just like any owner, but he also wants to win (he's just not very good at it. . . yet).

redsfanmia
12-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Were you a Reds fan during Linder's era? His first priority was making money. Castellini wants to make money, just like any owner, but he also wants to win (he's just not very good at it. . . yet).

Been a Reds fan since I was old enough to pay attention. Uncle Carl was one minded he wanted to make money so ultimately he was successful. Big Bob just wants to break even which is admiral, but if winning is what he wants to do then I wonder if he knows what the hell he is doing because he is going at it the wrong way. Big Bob should have stayed the course with Krivsky but he did not have the patience. Walt may be able to convince Big Bob to stay the course but we will see.

DTCromer
12-18-2008, 03:38 PM
Been a Reds fan since I was old enough to pay attention. Uncle Carl was one minded he wanted to make money so ultimately he was successful. Big Bob just wants to break even which is admiral, but if winning is what he wants to do then I wonder if he knows what the hell he is doing because he is going at it the wrong way. Big Bob should have stayed the course with Krivsky but he did not have the patience. Walt may be able to convince Big Bob to stay the course but we will see.

That's what I'm saying. Bob WANTS to win. . . . he just doesn't know how to yet. Mike Brown doesn't give a darn about us fans until people stop showing up which will be next year.

Revering4Blue
12-18-2008, 04:58 PM
Big Bob should have stayed the course with Krivsky but he did not have the patience. Walt may be able to convince Big Bob to stay the course but we will see.

On the nose. Jocketty had better prove himself to be the GM that some think/hope he will be here, or this franchise is in for another long drought, which in turn will reinforce the "Castellangelos" reputation he receives from several Redzoners. All of which could prove to be as damaging to this franchise as the non-proactive Linder/Allen regime, and I never thought that to be possible.

Brown and Sterling are in a class by themselves, though.

Kingspoint
12-18-2008, 07:14 PM
Lindner has no business in professional sports.

Castellini is fine. I like all of his General Manager hirings, though Krivsky should still be the G.M. Krivsky had this franchise going the right direction. Dusty Baker would never have been hired if Krivsky had the kind of control that Walt is being given. I don't care what Krivsky's "politically correct" statements have been about the hiring of Baker. He wouldn't have done it if the manager position hiring process would have been under his control. That was Castellini.

The only problem I have with Castellini so far is not insisting that Patterson either not be hired or be released after 30 days into the season. That's an "A" record in my books.