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BigRed
12-18-2008, 11:15 PM
MLB Trade Rumors has the Reds as a suitor for Oliver Perez per SI's Heyman. I don't see the Reds shelling out that kind of money for a starter when they need a RH power bat so badly. I like Perez, but I just don't see it happening.

schmidty622
12-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Eh...

If they think Rivera can be their bat I bet they could still afford to go after Perez.

I'm guessing he gets something along the lines of 5 years 60-70 million or about 12-14 million a year. I think that the Reds could afford that if they really wanted to.

Not going to happen though. And as wild as he is, I don't think that it should.

Emin3mShady07
12-19-2008, 12:03 AM
Eh...

If they think Rivera can be their bat I bet they could still afford to go after Perez.

I'm guessing he gets something along the lines of 5 years 60-70 million or about 12-14 million a year. I think that the Reds could afford that if they really wanted to.

Not going to happen though. And as wild as he is, I don't think that it should.

I'd hurl if the reds gave out that kind of contract for Oliver Perez. Perez had an xFIP of 5.02 last year. His HR/F % was right in line with league average at 11.4% and I would expect that to go up if he moved from Pitcher friendly Shea Stadium to the homer happy GABP. Perez had a .280 BABIP against this past season and had a 22.0 LD% against. That is a 60 point difference! Yikes, hate to see what happens when that evens out. Perez has some control problems also and I think it would be a risky addition ezpecially for those terms.

CincyRed44
12-19-2008, 12:07 AM
His twentyish homers last year turn into 40ish in GA(S)P... :eek: and with his propensity to allow extra baserunners via the walk he's a molotov cocktail waiting to happen, :thumbdown NO THANKS and then on top of that we give *mini-me* Yank wannabes our high draft picks next June.....ummmmmm H E double toothpicks NOOOOOOO.

If it's a lefty you want then Randy Wolf (not offered arb from Astros, therefore no draft picks would be lost) is still out there... or explore with gusto a Johathan Sanchez deal. How about letting Maloney have a shot he's a lefty.

dougflynn23
12-19-2008, 03:44 AM
Oliver Perez with Dick Pole as his pitching coach is a worse marraige than Brittney Spears and K-Fed. Perez is, to put it lightly, a mental case. The only coach who ever got iside his head was Rick Peterson in NY, and then Perez threw him under the bus a year later. He drives catchers and coaches insane.

He's a gifted arm, but let somebody else take that risk.

Hondo
12-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Don't mention that name ever again... And please... Don't mention the name Dick Pole in the same sentence as the before mentioned pitchers name...

Dick Pole... Worst Pitching Coach in the Majors.

TheNext44
12-19-2008, 05:17 PM
Don't mention that name ever again... And please... Don't mention the name Dick Pole in the same sentence as the before mentioned pitchers name...

Dick Pole... Worst Pitching Coach in the Majors.

I think Greg Maddox would disagree with you. He singled out Pole in his retirement speech as the guy responsible for his success.

Pole is a very good pitching coach, with a strong track record. And exactly what is your problem with him as the Reds pitching coach?

Last year, Volquez had his best season ever, Cueto had a strong first season for a 22 year old, Arroyo bounced back after a terrible start, R. Ramirez had a great first month, Burton developed into a strong set up man and maybe a future closer, Bray had his best season yet, Lincoln developed into a solid middle reliever, Affeldt had his best season ever.
The only problems were Harang, who was hurt, Fogg, who has no stuff, Belisle who had problem well before Pole came to the Reds and Bailey, who everyone agrees was uncoachable his whole minor league career.

Stop making up scapegoats!

That said, Perez would be a terrible addition. He is a flyball pitcher, who was very lucky last year. He could be worst than Milton.

Hondo
12-19-2008, 08:17 PM
I think Greg Maddox would disagree with you. He singled out Pole in his retirement speech as the guy responsible for his success.

Pole is a very good pitching coach, with a strong track record. And exactly what is your problem with him as the Reds pitching coach?

Last year, Volquez had his best season ever, Cueto had a strong first season for a 22 year old, Arroyo bounced back after a terrible start, R. Ramirez had a great first month, Burton developed into a strong set up man and maybe a future closer, Bray had his best season yet, Lincoln developed into a solid middle reliever, Affeldt had his best season ever.
The only problems were Harang, who was hurt, Fogg, who has no stuff, Belisle who had problem well before Pole came to the Reds and Bailey, who everyone agrees was uncoachable his whole minor league career.

Stop making up scapegoats!

That said, Perez would be a terrible addition. He is a flyball pitcher, who was very lucky last year. He could be worst than Milton.



UM, Harang 16 Losses....

Oh and Volquez didn't have the same record after that San Diego game either...

jfleur87
12-19-2008, 08:48 PM
Are you saying because Harang had 16 losses and Volquez used in the San Diego game through a decision made by Dusty that Dick Pole is a bad pitching coach.

CRedsLarkin11
12-19-2008, 08:51 PM
Hell, I think he's very inconsistent but would be a fine option for the #3-4 spot in the rotation. I like him more than most of the free agent pitchers. I just don't think there is any chance they sign him... the Rivera/Baldelli/Hairston/Taveras interest prove this team isn't going to compete this season

redsfandan
12-19-2008, 08:54 PM
The manager makes the FINAL call on who pitches when and when a pitcher comes out. NOT the pitching coach.

dougflynn23
12-20-2008, 02:28 AM
Someone I know who is in a position to know believes strongly that Dick Pole is a quality MLB pitching coach who has a bit of trouble communicating with younger pitchers, especially younger Latino pitchers. Not that he's a bigot or anything, just a cultural, generational and language gap, This person believes that was a key factor in bringing in Ramon Hernandez.

redsfandan
12-20-2008, 11:28 AM
That would make some sense although I think that would just imply that Hernandez will definitely be the catcher when Cueto, Volquez, and Ramirez pitch which wouldn't be a surprise.

Hondo
12-20-2008, 03:19 PM
Dick Pole is a joke... Mad dog giving him an endorsement or not... Doesn't change the fact that he was the pitching coach in Chicago that runied Mark Prior's career with Dusty, and almost ruined Kerry Wood's career...

Get them Both gone. Sign Leo Mazzone to be the Pitching Coach....

Also, I don't know who to get for a Manager... But Dusty has no idea how to handle a pitching staff... and if Dick Pole isn't pointing these things out to Dude Pick, then, he is in part responsible...

schmidty622
12-20-2008, 03:42 PM
So why would you want Peavy? Wouldn't they just ruin his arm too?

windycitybuck
12-21-2008, 12:20 AM
Dick Pole is a joke... Mad dog giving him an endorsement or not... Doesn't change the fact that he was the pitching coach in Chicago that runied Mark Prior's career with Dusty, and almost ruined Kerry Wood's career...

Get them Both gone. Sign Leo Mazzone to be the Pitching Coach....

Also, I don't know who to get for a Manager... But Dusty has no idea how to handle a pitching staff... and if Dick Pole isn't pointing these things out to Dude Pick, then, he is in part responsible...

Dude, get a clue before spouting off. What ruined Prior's career was that line drive that broke his elbow. And injuries killed Woods; he was on the DL all the time.

Hondo
12-21-2008, 02:57 AM
Dude, get a clue before spouting off. What ruined Prior's career was that line drive that broke his elbow. And injuries killed Woods; he was on the DL all the time.


5 posts and your telling me to get a clue...

Nice... :rolleyes:

Hondo
12-21-2008, 02:59 AM
So why would you want Peavy? Wouldn't they just ruin his arm too?

His first 10 starts would be Great! :beerme:

redsfandan
12-21-2008, 03:42 PM
Windycitybuck has a point. Dusty (and Pole) have received alot of blame for Prior/Woods but, Imo, it's been too much blame. Injuries and mechanics played more of a part in their troubles, especially with Prior.

Plus Plus
12-21-2008, 07:37 PM
^^ agree.

And, to go back on topic, Perez would be the absolute worst pitcher to sign for the Reds. He is a flyball machine, so in Great American Small Park, he would be little more than batting practice for opponents' hitters. 40 home runs for the season would be close to a guarantee.

windycitybuck
12-21-2008, 10:42 PM
5 posts and your telling me to get a clue...

Nice... :rolleyes:

Hondo,
You can have 5,000 posts of crap and, guess what, it's still crap.
Fact remains that the line drive off his elbow ruined Prior's career.

Newman4
12-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Perez reportedly wants over 10 million per. He hasn't bee nthat good as previously mentioned. In fact, he is a few years removed from being basically given away by the Pirates - yeah, the Pirates. When guys like Lowe (as reported by Buster Olney) and Sheets supposedly able to be had for around 12 million per year, it would be silly to discuss Perez if you're going to spend money on starting pitching. For my .02 I think the Reds need more starting pitching, just not Perez.

Griffey012
12-22-2008, 03:46 PM
Dick Pole is a joke... Mad dog giving him an endorsement or not... Doesn't change the fact that he was the pitching coach in Chicago that runied Mark Prior's career with Dusty, and almost ruined Kerry Wood's career...

Get them Both gone. Sign Leo Mazzone to be the Pitching Coach....

Also, I don't know who to get for a Manager... But Dusty has no idea how to handle a pitching staff... and if Dick Pole isn't pointing these things out to Dude Pick, then, he is in part responsible...

Mark Prior has some of the worst mechanics ever seen, and unfortunately for Wood he was way too good at too young an age and threw a nasty breaking ball that is very hard on the elbow and shoulder. I'm not much of a Dick Pole fan myself, but to blame him for Wood and Prior is just about as crazy as blaming Dusty himself.

Griffey012
12-22-2008, 03:52 PM
UM, Harang 16 Losses....

Oh and Volquez didn't have the same record after that San Diego game either...

Harang got close to being back to form his last 7 or 8 starts. I am going to guarantee you Dick Pole had a lot to do with that once Harang was recovered from injury. And Dick Pole has nothing to do with Harang throwing 4 extra innings in a bad situation. As far as Volquez...are you serious?????! Do you expect the league not to adjust to a pitcher in his first full season starting off with dominance? Did you expect him to pitch a season that was similar to Pedro Martinez's best season ever, cause that's what he was on pace for for a while.


On another note: Welcome to the board Windycitybuck