PDA

View Full Version : If It's Brown, Flush It Down: Bengals vs. Browns



camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:04 PM
The Bengals have the ball and a 14-0 lead thanks to an interception return by Leon Hall and 20-yard touchdown pass to Chris Henry. Even if the Bengals win, they'll be last in the division. The only thing a win does for the Bengals is help the Browns' draft position and hurt the Bengals'. In other words, the Bengals are guaranteed to win.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:09 PM
I really like Caldwell, who just made a nice catch for a first down. The Simpson pick isn't looking too good, but I think Caldwell will be a solid Houshmandzadeh replacement.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Cedric Benson has 112 yards on 20 carries.

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 02:11 PM
Benson is a horse so far. That throw to Henry for the TD was a thing of beauty.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:18 PM
The Browns were 7-1 at home last year. They're about to be 1-7 this year.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:19 PM
Benson is a horse so far. That throw to Henry for the TD was a thing of beauty.

I really like Benson's physical skills. I just wish he were more selective in the holes he tried to hit. He's no worse than Rudi Johnson, though.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:21 PM
The Browns are down to their 4th tight end.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:22 PM
The Browns had three receivers, and the Bengals had six defensive backs. They sent a blitz which resulted in a 11-yard sack. The Browns look like they have no idea what they're doing.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:31 PM
Around the league:
A referee made a tackle in the 49ers game today.
The Lions are about to lose their 15th game.
There's a lot of snow in New England's blowout.
The Dolphins/Chiefs game has a lot of scoring.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:34 PM
Cleveland's offense hasn't scored in 18 consecutive quarters.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:42 PM
The Browns already have 7 penalties today.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Fanene roughed the passer on third and long, resulting in a first down for the Browns.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:43 PM
Leon Hall loves being on my fantasy team--he just got his second interception of the season.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:46 PM
The Browns' defensive line is getting absolutely no penetration.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:53 PM
The Browns haven't had a TD in their last 49 possessions.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:55 PM
The Bengals and Browns have a combined 95 passing yards. Ndukwe just got blown up by Edwards from a block on an end-around.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 02:58 PM
The Browns just had their eight penalty and another quarter in which their offense didn't score a touchdown.

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 02:59 PM
19 straight quarters now

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 03:10 PM
only the 457th penalty against the Browns so far

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:10 PM
The Browns have their ninth penalty.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:11 PM
This could be the last time the Bengals see Romeo Crennel.

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Leon Hall with his third pick of the day...and the season.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Leon Hall just got another interception. He and Peyton Manning are responsible for getting me one of my fantasy championships this year.

Playadlc
12-21-2008, 03:14 PM
Ken Dorsey is pretty good.

Playadlc
12-21-2008, 03:21 PM
Kyle Larson is too.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:21 PM
Larson with an amazing 13-yard punt. Browns have the ball at the 18 and are down two touchdowns.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:28 PM
The Browns have Gradkowski warming up on the bench because Dorsey has hurt ribs. Meanwhile, Benson is making it look easy.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Stacy Andrews is lying down on his back.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:32 PM
Benson has two career highs: 38 carries and 171 yards rushing.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:35 PM
Larson punts again, this time for 15 yards. Browns have the ball at their 48-yard line.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Brandon Johnson intercepts Gradkowski.

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 03:41 PM
How many people are left in the stands, about 7?

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:41 PM
The Bengals have one pass in the second half and nine for the game.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:42 PM
How many people are left in the stands, about 7?

I think your estimation is right--I just saw four Bengals fans.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:42 PM
Thanks to a bounce, Larson punts this one 44 yards.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:46 PM
Thornton sacks Gradkowski for a loss of 12, giving the Bengals a win after a couple kneel-downs.

guttle11
12-21-2008, 03:46 PM
4 non-losing weeks! 3 whole wins!!!

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:47 PM
The Bengals have 23 players on IR, most in the NFL.

camisadelgolf
12-21-2008, 03:47 PM
The Bengals have won seven of their last nine games against the Browns.

OldRightHander
12-21-2008, 04:03 PM
And the Steelers just lost. Too little, too late, but I can find satisfaction at least this week.

cincrazy
12-21-2008, 04:06 PM
If the Bengals win next week and the Browns lose to the Steelers, the Bengals climb out of the cellar. Amazing.

TheBigLebowski
12-21-2008, 04:31 PM
It's fun to beat these guys and even more fun to shut them out but, the events of today really aren't that good for the Bengals' future.

STL and KC already lost today. Regardless of what happens in next week's colossal CIN/KC tilt, they are going to have a worse record than us because of the tie. They will pick before us now for sure, so, as of right now, the best pick we can hope for is #4.

Onto next week...we're faced with this potentially disastrous scenario - CIN beats KC, the Browns lose, SEA and OAK lose out. We climb past the Browns and move all the way back into the 8th spot in the draft. Eighth. We've had to endure this disgusting season and we may not even get a top 5 pick to show for it due to this team's innate abilty to only play well when playing well actually has deleterious results for the franchise.

Bip Roberts
12-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Browns are pretty good

guttle11
12-21-2008, 04:54 PM
If you really think the Bengals draft position will effect the future in any way, I think you're way off base. If anything, it's better. Fewer guys to choose from lowers their chances of making the wrong choice. If you're a trenches of bust thinker, you should be begging for Cleveland to pick ahead of the Bengals. They'll take Beanie off the board.

When looking to the future, I feel pretty good about the young secondary, Pat Sims, Rivers, Brandon Johnson. Frostee Rucker was beginning to come on before his injury, too. Caldwell is showing glimpses of what can be on offense, and Cedric Benson is looking like a guy the Bengals should be locking up.

There is a lot of work to do, but the future with a healthy Palmer has a good amount of light to look toward.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Onto next week...we're faced with this potentially disastrous scenario - CIN beats KC, the Browns lose, SEA and OAK lose out. We climb past the Browns and move all the way back into the 8th spot in the draft. Eighth.

The higest they can pick is #4. The lowest is #7.

I think the two OT's are off the board at #7.

That leaves Rey Maualagua.

Bip Roberts
12-21-2008, 05:02 PM
Sign me up for not wanting Benson back that much

BuckeyeRedleg
12-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Sign me up for not wanting Benson back that much

Agree. I think he's garbage.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-21-2008, 05:12 PM
If you really think the Bengals draft position will effect the future in any way, I think you're way off base. If anything, it's better. Fewer guys to choose from lowers their chances of making the wrong choice. If you're a trenches of bust thinker, you should be begging for Cleveland to pick ahead of the Bengals. They'll take Beanie off the board.

When looking to the future, I feel pretty good about the young secondary, Pat Sims, Rivers, Brandon Johnson. Frostee Rucker was beginning to come on before his injury, too. Caldwell is showing glimpses of what can be on offense, and Cedric Benson is looking like a guy the Bengals should be locking up.

There is a lot of work to do, but the future with a healthy Palmer has a good amount of light to look toward.

Agree. The Browns will pick ahead of us and either them or Seattle will take the Beanster, saving the Bungals from their own stupidity.

Bip Roberts
12-21-2008, 05:42 PM
Agree. I think he's garbage.

He certainly isnt a starting NFL RB. You could probably do worse as a back up though.

TheBigLebowski
12-21-2008, 06:08 PM
I have no idea what Benson you guys have watched but the one I've seen has looked pretty darned good. I won't howl one bit if he's back next year, along with a RB we take either via FA or 3rd round or later.

Right now, things are looking a bit better - OAK is all over HOU, 27-13. SEA is beating NYJ 10-3 in the beginning of the 4th. Those two results hold true and we'll be picking in the top 5.

FYI - in response to the folks who think we may be better off with a lower selection, I want Oher. He will not last past pick 5-6, most likely. Contrary to what others may think, I don't believe we'd take Wells. Benson has looked very good in his limited time as a Bengal and it would be cheaper to extend him a year or two than take a Beanie Wells with a top 5 pick.

cincrazy
12-21-2008, 06:29 PM
I have no idea what Benson you guys have watched but the one I've seen has looked pretty darned good. I won't howl one bit if he's back next year, along with a RB we take either via FA or 3rd round or later.

Right now, things are looking a bit better - OAK is all over HOU, 27-13. SEA is beating NYJ 10-3 in the beginning of the 4th. Those two results hold true and we'll be picking in the top 5.

FYI - in response to the folks who think we may be better off with a lower selection, I want Oher. He will not last past pick 5-6, most likely. Contrary to what others may think, I don't believe we'd take Wells. Benson has looked very good in his limited time as a Bengal and it would be cheaper to extend him a year or two than take a Beanie Wells with a top 5 pick.

I don't have a problem with Benson returning either. As long as they pair him with another quality back, it can be a decent situation. He's not an All Pro, but he looks like Jim Brown compared to Chris "Down With The Wind" Perry

Danny Serafini
12-21-2008, 07:00 PM
Coming into today Benson was averaging 3.1 yards per carry this year. That's approaching Harold Green's disaster level. I'm not getting excited about that.

UKFlounder
12-21-2008, 07:17 PM
Coming into today Benson was averaging 3.1 yards per carry this year. That's approaching Harold Green's disaster level. I'm not getting excited about that.

But how much of that can be fixed with better line play? Perry had a low YPC amount also, and Rudi's was bad last year.

How much of that is due to the runner and how much due to the line?

How the Bengals answer that will decide what they need to do.

I think Benson's decent, perhaps average, but it's tough to tell if the RB or the line needs fixed most, IMO

BuckeyeRedleg
12-21-2008, 07:22 PM
Coming into today Benson was averaging 3.1 yards per carry this year. That's approaching Harold Green's disaster level. I'm not getting excited about that.

Yep.

And he was horrible in Chicago too.

WMR
12-21-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't mind having Benson as the 2nd RB, but penciling him in as "THE MAN" next season is a huge disaster just waiting to happen.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-21-2008, 07:33 PM
I don't mind having Benson as the 2nd RB, but penciling him in as "THE MAN" next season is a huge disaster just waiting to happen.

You just know it will happen though. He'll rush for 150 next week and the Bungal "braintrust" will get all excited and they'll dump all their eggs into his basket.

Anyone know if Chester Taylor is available? I'd like it the Bungals could do what the Falcons did with snagging Turner and somehow get Taylor. His talent is wasted as a backup.

Save the draft picks for help on the lines and a decent TE.

TheBigLebowski
12-21-2008, 07:34 PM
3.1 YPC behind this set of turnstiles should be considered HOF-caliber production.

guttle11
12-21-2008, 07:37 PM
What people tend to forget is, Benson played in a Chicago offense that was stuck in the 1950s. They had no passing game whatsoever, and all the blame went to him. He faced 8-9 man fronts every week. No RB in the world can succeed in that spot.

It's been much the same here in Cincy without Palmer behind center. Locking Benson up for a few years would be pretty cheap, and surround him with a good passing game and he could flourish. He's never had one to compliment him.

Who else will run the ball? Perry has to be on the outs by now, no one wants to draft a RB...James Johnson? DeDe Dorsey? Go out and sign someone else's Cedric Benson? Any free agent RB will be a cheap signing...Chester Taylor, it will not be.

I'd lock Benson up right now to an incentive laden deal with a decent signing bonus (it's the NFL, a 5 year deal is five one year deals) and feature him. Keep Watson and/or Dorsey as the third down back.

The only other viable option is drafting Beanie or Moreno. They will not go out and sign a credible FA back.

Reds Freak
12-21-2008, 09:14 PM
But how much of that can be fixed with better line play? Perry had a low YPC amount also, and Rudi's was bad last year.

How much of that is due to the runner and how much due to the line?

How the Bengals answer that will decide what they need to do.

I think Benson's decent, perhaps average, but it's tough to tell if the RB or the line needs fixed most, IMO

Exactly. Fix the line and it doesn't matter who carries the ball. (And in a lot of cases, fix the line and it doesn't matter who throws the ball). There are very few, IMO, stud RBs who can carry a team. Adrian Peterson is really the one of the only ones on the top of my mind in the game right now. Games are won in the trenches, skill players get all the love but it all starts up front.

Highlifeman21
12-21-2008, 10:08 PM
I don't mind having Benson as the 2nd RB, but penciling him in as "THE MAN" next season is a huge disaster just waiting to happen.

The Bengals haven't had "THE MAN" since Corey Dillon.

Unfortunately, they didn't think about life after Corey.

KoryMac5
12-21-2008, 11:43 PM
Keep Benson draft a back. Look at the Titans, Giants, and Panthers this season, you need two backs to win games in this league.

camisadelgolf
12-22-2008, 04:45 AM
Sign me up for not wanting Benson back that much

He's Rudi Johnson pt. II.

Redhook
12-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Jim Brown and Walter Peyton couldn't run behind this line.

Keep Benson. He's not great, but he's not bad. He certainly isn't the problem.

Outside of the few top guys in the league, RB's are a dime a dozen. Spend top dollars on lineman pick up another RB later in the draft or through free agency. It's pretty simple really, but common sense isn't one of the Bengals strong suits.

Bip Roberts
12-22-2008, 10:09 AM
He's Rudi Johnson pt. II.

Rudi had a couple good years. :o

camisadelgolf
12-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Rudi had a couple good years. :o

The Bengals had a great offensive line for a couple years. Willie Anderson, Rich Braham, and Eric Steinbach say :wave: ;)

Bip Roberts
12-22-2008, 10:51 AM
The Bengals had a great offensive line for a couple years. Willie Anderson, Rich Braham, and Eric Steinbach say :wave: ;)

Rudi was running behind the same line Dillon was.

camisadelgolf
12-22-2008, 11:54 AM
Rudi was running behind the same line Dillon was.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Dillon and Rudi Johnson were close to as good as each other? The only year Dillon and Steinbach were on a team together, Steinbach was a rookie, and Dillon was having a hard time with injuries. The Bengals didn't have Bobbie Williams yet either. This was also during a time when Carson Palmer hadn't thrown a single pass, so the other teams could focus on stopping on the run and laugh at Jon Kitna when he tried to win the game through the air.

Redhook
12-22-2008, 12:39 PM
It's hard to tell who's saying what about Rudi and Dillon, but just to clarify:

Dillon > Rudi

At their prime, I don't see how anyone could debate that Rudi was better than Dillon. It's not even close.

Ok, back to whatever it was this thread is about.....oh yeah, how bad the Bengals are.

Yachtzee
12-22-2008, 01:34 PM
I went to the game yesterday. We only lasted 1 quarter in the upper deck as the wind was able to cut through all the layers we were wearing. The worst was sitting down, because the cold just seemed to come up from the seats and the concrete to chill your bum and feet. We agreed that in all the years we've been going to games in Cleveland (my friend is a Browns season ticket holder), that was the coldest. I'm still trying to warm up.

Matt700wlw
12-22-2008, 03:13 PM
Mike Brown gets his 100th win as the man in charge.

He probably thinks that's something to smile about.

BoydsOfSummer
12-22-2008, 04:02 PM
It's dang hard to win 100 games...it's...it's...really hard...

Bip Roberts
12-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Dillon and Rudi Johnson were close to as good as each other? The only year Dillon and Steinbach were on a team together, Steinbach was a rookie, and Dillon was having a hard time with injuries. The Bengals didn't have Bobbie Williams yet either. This was also during a time when Carson Palmer hadn't thrown a single pass, so the other teams could focus on stopping on the run and laugh at Jon Kitna when he tried to win the game through the air.

Dillon and Rudi were running behind some good lines. Dillon is a HOF worthy running back and of course he had the better career but Rudi still was a pretty darn good NFL back for a couple years and it wasnt just because of the line.

Newport Red
12-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Exactly. Fix the line and it doesn't matter who carries the ball. (And in a lot of cases, fix the line and it doesn't matter who throws the ball). There are very few, IMO, stud RBs who can carry a team. Adrian Peterson is really the one of the only ones on the top of my mind in the game right now. Games are won in the trenches, skill players get all the love but it all starts up front.

I'll add who catches the ball as well. The Pats did OK before Randy Moss arrived.

camisadelgolf
12-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Dillon and Rudi were running behind some good lines. Dillon is a HOF worthy running back and of course he had the better career but Rudi still was a pretty darn good NFL back for a couple years and it wasnt just because of the line.

I agree that Rudi was good for a short time, but Dillon was in a completely different class. The reason Rudi was so good was because he understood exactly what he had to do to be successful. When he shed 30 lbs. and tried to become an elusive back, he became much worse. I think Benson has better physical skills but doesn't break tackles as well as Rudi used to, and overall, I'd say they're about equal.

NatiRedGals
12-22-2008, 07:35 PM
I agree that Rudi was good for a short time, but Dillon was in a completely different class. The reason Rudi was so good was because he understood exactly what he had to do to be successful. When he shed 30 lbs. and tried to become an elusive back, he became much worse. I think Benson has better physical skills but doesn't break tackles as well as Rudi used to, and overall, I'd say they're about equal.

Thinks we should make a new thread about what the bengals should do and flush this thread down along with the brown.:p:

Bip Roberts
12-22-2008, 07:40 PM
I agree that Rudi was good for a short time, but Dillon was in a completely different class. The reason Rudi was so good was because he understood exactly what he had to do to be successful. When he shed 30 lbs. and tried to become an elusive back, he became much worse. I think Benson has better physical skills but doesn't break tackles as well as Rudi used to, and overall, I'd say they're about equal.

Yea no doubt when he went from trying to be a Betis to trying to be a Faulk he turned into a turd.

Benson does seem quicker than Rudi was. He doesnt seem to break the tackles but he does get through the holes quicker just from what I see.

TheBigLebowski
12-22-2008, 07:44 PM
5 Redszoners could have blocked for Dillon and he'd have rushed for a thousand yards. He was one of the most incredible backs I'd ever seen when he was in his prime.

Rudi was pretty good for a while but Dillon was far, far more talented.

Yachtzee
12-22-2008, 09:21 PM
5 Redszoners could have blocked for Dillon and he'd have rushed for a thousand yards. He was one of the most incredible backs I'd ever seen when he was in his prime.

Rudi was pretty good for a while but Dillon was far, far more talented.

Dillon was talented, but he also spent much of his career running behind Willie Anderson. Big Willie played a big part in Dillon's success. But when Dillon was throwing tantrums to get himself out of town, he made sure to throw Willie under the bus.