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View Full Version : what's the feeling 'round here about Wilkin Castillo?



GADawg
12-23-2008, 03:02 PM
Don't see his name mentioned much around here but I'm wondering what the general consensus is around here about him being a piece of the bench puzzle.

I really liked what I saw from the guy at the end of the year.

LincolnparkRed
12-23-2008, 03:12 PM
Hard to get to excited about a guy with 32 ABs but he does seem like he is very athletic, to play all over the diamond like he has.

flyer85
12-23-2008, 03:13 PM
a end of the bench kind of guy. Has an interesting mix of skills but really isn't going to impact the W/L columns.

RedsManRick
12-23-2008, 03:18 PM
Jose Macias with a catcher's mitt.

chicoruiz
12-23-2008, 03:37 PM
The kind of guy that allows you to carry 12 or 13 pitchers...not that that's a good idea anyway.

dougdirt
12-23-2008, 03:39 PM
His entire value revolves around the idea that he can play catcher.

Hap
12-23-2008, 08:50 PM
His minor league numbers (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=2478) are mediocre at best, but you never know......he could develop into a solid pinch hitter.

Blitz Dorsey
12-23-2008, 09:29 PM
I look at him as a guy that can be a super sub/backup catcher in the future. Like Doug said, he has to play catcher effectively to really have any value to the Reds. This year, I look for him to play most of the year at AAA unless the Reds are hit hard by injuries.

M2
12-23-2008, 09:46 PM
If Chad Moeller and Jason Romano had a baby, it would be Wilkin Castillo. He's got no business on a 25-man roster.

Mario-Rijo
12-24-2008, 12:58 AM
Right now he's at best the 3rd catcher and 3rd UT man. And if he doesn't get to catch at AAA again then he never will likely be anything more.

919191
12-24-2008, 08:16 AM
I swear I read an article late last season about Wilkin having trouble catching pitchers in the bullpen warmimg up. Did anyone else read this?

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 09:39 AM
He's a great third catcher. His versatility is useful, but because of his weak bat, he should never start a game at any position other than catcher.

Spitball
12-24-2008, 10:16 AM
I have long pondered the value of a role player who could effectively fill in at all positions, plus represent a left handed and right handed pinch hitter off the bench. One who could economize the depth of the bench and allow for an additional need or more on the 25 man roster. Were the Diamondbacks trying to develop such a super sub with Castillo?

Anyway, unless he makes great strides over thewinter, I believe his greatest value at this time is in triple A developing his catching skills and hitting mechanics.

mth123
12-24-2008, 11:07 AM
I have long pondered the value of a role player who could effectively fill in at all positions, plus represent a left handed and right handed pinch hitter off the bench. One who could economize the depth of the bench and allow for an additional need or more on the 25 man roster. Were the Diamondbacks trying to develop such a super sub with Castillo?

Anyway, unless he makes great strides over thewinter, I believe his greatest value at this time is in triple A developing his catching skills and hitting mechanics.

I agree. Its good to fill a lot of spots with one guy, but that isn't the same thing as being filler at a lot of spots like I think Castillo is. While its true that he can play many positions, I don't really want to see him at any of them other than as a last option necessity. He is technically a switch hitter, but really isn't much of a hitter from either side, so his bat off the bench really doesn't add any value. His entire value is based on him being able to catch. Based on last year, I don't get the impression that the Reds think he can. I say a year at AAA (or AA) working on it is needed and then evaluate.

The Reds sure didn't get much for Adam Dunn.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 11:11 AM
The Reds sure didn't get much for Adam Dunn.

If you ask me, the Diamondbacks didn't get much for Buck, Castillo, and Owings either. I think it was a fair trade.

lollipopcurve
12-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Needs full year at AAA with a good portion of that time behind the plate. Will give the organization time to see if he can bring that interesting mix of skills to the big leagues. I think he showed he can swing the bat well enough to survive as a role player. The question is, can he defend at all the positions it is said he can play?

mth123
12-24-2008, 11:23 AM
If you ask me, the Diamondbacks didn't get much for Buck, Castillo, and Owings either. I think it was a fair trade.

Owings is a 26 year old fringe pitcher who will be a swingman most of his career. Castillo is a 25th man on a depleted roster and Buck is a hope from an injury comeback. Dunn is an annual 40 HR, 100 Run, 100 RBI bat that had an .889 OPS in 186 PA's down the stretch to boost the AZ offense when it was struggling. They jettisoned a bunch of stuff they didn't want and kept the season alive 2 months longer than they would have. Its an example of why I say deals for pricey rentals don't need to include all the top players in a system. I haven't seen many lately that have.

I hope Buck comes all the way back. He could make this a decent deal for the Reds, but its a hope and not a primary return.

Caveat Emperor
12-24-2008, 12:20 PM
He's a great third catcher.

Which leads directly to M2's point: He has no business on a ML roster.

Carrying three catchers has been and continues to be an insane idea.

lollipopcurve
12-24-2008, 12:32 PM
Carrying three catchers has been and continues to be an insane idea.

Not if you've got a guy with Castillo's skill set. Being able to pinch run or pinch hit for a catcher -- which some managers are unwilling to do with only 2 catchers on the roster -- can be an advantage in late inning situations. Castillo could be that pinch hitter or pinch runner and then stay in the game at C, 2B, 3B or LF -- giving the manager some real nice lineup flexibility (helpful if you're trying to slot a reliever deep in the lineup) while maintaining some backup/flexibility at the catching position. A player with Castillo's skillset can be very useful if properly managed.

M2
12-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Not if you've got a guy with Castillo's skill set. Being able to pinch run or pinch hit for a catcher -- which some managers are unwilling to do with only 2 catchers on the roster -- can be an advantage in late inning situations. Castillo could be that pinch hitter or pinch runner and then stay in the game at C, 2B, 3B or LF -- giving the manager some real nice lineup flexibility (helpful if you're trying to slot a reliever deep in the lineup) while maintaining some backup/flexibility at the catching position. A player with Castillo's skillset can be very useful if properly managed.

Castillo can't hit. Using him to PH is to create a walking, talking oxymoron. In a world of 7-man bullpens and in a non-DH league, a team can't afford to carry extra spaghetti stick out machines on the bench.

On top of that Castillo is not fast, nor is he a good defender at any position on the field. His only flexibility is that he's uniformly poor at everything he attempts to do.

He has no skillset. His ability to move around the diamond might be an asset if he were a 2nd catcher, but a 3rd catcher needs to bring something more than nothing to the table, preferably a bat.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Which leads directly to M2's point: He has no business on a ML roster.

Carrying three catchers has been and continues to be an insane idea.

I'm not refuting that. But if Hanigan or Hernandez becomes injured, Castillo would be the first guy I call up, but I'd use him only on the days when I need to rest the other catcher or as a late-inning replacement.

Will M
12-24-2008, 05:42 PM
In a world of 7-man bullpens and in a non-DH league, a team can't afford to carry extra spaghetti stick out machines on the bench.



The Reds can. Owings is an extra bat on the bench. So the Reds can have the 25th man be something other teams can't.

Caveat Emperor
12-24-2008, 05:45 PM
The Reds can. Owings is an extra bat on the bench. So the Reds can have the 25th man be something other teams can't.

Yeah, but can you *really* ever foresee in a situation where you find yourself saying: "Man, I'm glad we had Wilkin Castillo ready to go here..."

Me neither.

camisadelgolf
12-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Yeah, but can you *really* ever foresee in a situation where you find yourself saying: "Man, I'm glad we had Wilkin Castillo ready to go here..."

Me neither.

I would if Hernandez and/or Hanigan hit the DL. That is, unless, you want to see Ryan Jorgensen getting regular playing time.

corkedbat
12-24-2008, 09:03 PM
His entire value revolves around the idea that he can play catcher.


I think that he also has some value for being able to bat from the left side and he gives you decent D at several spots. Versatility is always useful on the bench - especially when the team carries 12 pitchers - but his bat won't be scaring any pitchers into retirement.

Caveat Emperor
12-24-2008, 09:05 PM
I would if Hernandez and/or Hanigan hit the DL. That is, unless, you want to see Ryan Jorgensen getting regular playing time.

Really, I don't know how much of a difference between the two you'd see. Castillo has a robust .710 OPS for his minor league career / Jorgensen has a .690.

Neither one is going to do anything other than be a warm body until a better player gets healthy.

M2
12-25-2008, 12:45 AM
The Reds can. Owings is an extra bat on the bench. So the Reds can have the 25th man be something other teams can't.

Micah Owings may or may not be able to get out major league hitters in 2009. Aside from that, having a pitcher who can hit still is no justification for carrying a guy who's good at nothing.

dougdirt
12-25-2008, 01:01 AM
I think that he also has some value for being able to bat from the left side and he gives you decent D at several spots. Versatility is always useful on the bench - especially when the team carries 12 pitchers - but his bat won't be scaring any pitchers into retirement.

His being able to hit from the left side doesn't really give him value, because he can't hit. He is basically Paul Janish, but without good defense.

remdog
12-25-2008, 01:26 AM
He is basically Paul Janish, but without good defense.

But Paul Janish is already Paul Jansh without the good defense! :roll:

Rem

GADawg
12-25-2008, 11:29 AM
originally maybe I shoulda asked who is "our" better option that Wilkin Castillo.

I kinda like the guy but possibly with so many free agents left out there Walt will figure out a way to strengthen the bench.

Who would you want for such a role?

Jpup
12-25-2008, 12:07 PM
Castillo should be in AA at best.

MWM
12-25-2008, 12:36 PM
Isn't "great 3rd catcher" an oxymoron in itself?

WMR
12-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Great 3rd Catcher = http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l456/howardstern247/JeffTheDrunk.gif

camisadelgolf
12-25-2008, 12:51 PM
Castillo should be in AA at best.

Castillo is finished with AA. He already put up great numbers in AA and was a AA All-Star. On top of that, he is the most accomplished catcher in the Reds' minor league system. You could argue that Castillo isn't much better than the Reds current AAA options (Chris Denove, Ryan Jorgensen, Chris Kroski, Craig Tatum), but I don't think it's reasonable to argue that he's worse than any of them. As far as AAA catchers go, he's far from the worst.

In the International League (home of the Louisville Bats), only two catchers who played at least 90 games managed to OPS better than .700 last year. We're talking about a world in which a player like Dane "I hope I OPS .600" Sardinha gets significant playing time in AAA.

Ideally, yes, you have a player like Castillo not being depended on for a lot of production, but the fact of the matter is that some of the worst offensive production in the lineup comes from the catcher position, and you don't necessarily need to hit like Mark Teixeira to be productive. In a good-but-not-great year for him, Castillo would probably OPS around .730, which would make him offensively above-average as a catcher.

Like everyone has said, though, if he is producing like that from a corner position, he has negative value unless he comes in as a defensive replacement. Otherwise, he's a horrible use of a roster spot. To say that he should be stuck in AA just isn't fair, though.

camisadelgolf
12-25-2008, 12:53 PM
Isn't "great 3rd catcher" an oxymoron in itself?

Okay, you're right. I guess I meant to say "great as a third catcher".

wheels
12-25-2008, 04:44 PM
Great 3rd Catcher = http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l456/howardstern247/JeffTheDrunk.gif

Okay...What the h e double hockey sticks was that?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Caveat Emperor
12-25-2008, 10:57 PM
Okay, you're right. I guess I meant to say "great as a third catcher".

Isn't that kinda like telling a guy that he has a face for radio?

Blitz Dorsey
12-26-2008, 01:50 AM
Isn't that kinda like telling a guy that he has a face for radio?

Q: What does she look like?

A: She has a great personality.

Will M
12-26-2008, 06:34 PM
Castillo is finished with AA. He already put up great numbers in AA and was a AA All-Star. On top of that, he is the most accomplished catcher in the Reds' minor league system. You could argue that Castillo isn't much better than the Reds current AAA options (Chris Denove, Ryan Jorgensen, Chris Kroski, Craig Tatum), but I don't think it's reasonable to argue that he's worse than any of them. As far as AAA catchers go, he's far from the worst.

In the International League (home of the Louisville Bats), only two catchers who played at least 90 games managed to OPS better than .700 last year. We're talking about a world in which a player like Dane "I hope I OPS .600" Sardinha gets significant playing time in AAA.

Ideally, yes, you have a player like Castillo not being depended on for a lot of production, but the fact of the matter is that some of the worst offensive production in the lineup comes from the catcher position, and you don't necessarily need to hit like Mark Teixeira to be productive. In a good-but-not-great year for him, Castillo would probably OPS around .730, which would make him offensively above-average as a catcher.

Like everyone has said, though, if he is producing like that from a corner position, he has negative value unless he comes in as a defensive replacement. Otherwise, he's a horrible use of a roster spot. To say that he should be stuck in AA just isn't fair, though.

well said. i believe his issue is he needs to work on his catching. maybe he should be the catcher at AAA rather than a 25th man on the bench in Cincinnati.

Blimpie
12-26-2008, 07:10 PM
We have a "Jeff the Drunk" sighting...in a thread about Wilkin Castillo?

:D

WMR
12-26-2008, 07:55 PM
Okay...What the h e double hockey sticks was that?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

That is Jeff the Drunk from the Howard Stern Show.

I'll let you guess where he got his nickname. :D

Raisor
12-26-2008, 08:29 PM
I'm all for a moritorium on 3rd catchers.