PDA

View Full Version : Tex a Yank?



ThatPitchIsDunn
12-23-2008, 03:39 PM
8 years, more than 170 mil. Good grief, the Yankees luxury tax will top 80% of the league's payroll.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

TheBigLebowski
12-23-2008, 03:44 PM
And the gap grows wider and wider.....sickening

texasdave
12-23-2008, 03:46 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/12/23/teixeira/index.html

CNNSI is reporting 8 years 180 million. Yes, baseball needs no salary cap. It seems pretty obvious to me. Yankees have a "down' year - only winning 89 games. And so they go out and get Sabathia, Burnett and Texeira. All the while the Reds decide among Taveras, Hairston, Baldelli and the like. That's a nice even playing field.

UC_Ken
12-23-2008, 03:46 PM
What will CC, AJ, and Tex get the Yankee's payroll to next season, $250 mil?

yab1112
12-23-2008, 03:48 PM
jeez...this just ruined my day

BUTLER REDSFAN
12-23-2008, 03:50 PM
Anyone else tired of hearing about Texeira??? He's a good player but he ain't worth all the limelight and money he is getting. However, I would love it if the Yanks don't go to the playoffs next year with that huge payroll. It would just be hilarious.

Orodle
12-23-2008, 03:54 PM
imagine if the Reds could add 3 all-star caliber players in an offseason......

Aces Wild
12-23-2008, 03:56 PM
I laugh when the Yanks do stupid stuff like this. All of those guys will not be worth the money in three years, and the Yankees are still on the hook for over 20 million per for the next five years. They do it every year, and haven't won a WS in 8 years now. I highly doubt it works this year either.

ThatPitchIsDunn
12-23-2008, 04:03 PM
I laugh when the Yanks do stupid stuff like this. All of those guys will not be worth the money in three years, and the Yankees are still on the hook for over 20 million per for the next five years. They do it every year, and haven't won a WS in 8 years now. I highly doubt it works this year either.

They better hope it does in the next two or three years, otherwise it's Jason Giambi all over again.

If somehow they sign Manny too, this is a video game lineup.

CF - Damon
SS - Jeter
1B - Teixiera
3B - Pay-Rod
DH - ManRam
LF - Matsui
C - Hip Hip Jorge
RF - Nady
2B - Cano

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Hughes, Joba with the Sandman on the back end.

Four highest-paid players in baseball now in the Bronx. They'll probably sign Burrell as a RH bat off the bench.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 04:09 PM
They are buying a World Series. I would be shocked if they win fewer than 100 games in 09

texasdave
12-23-2008, 04:09 PM
I laugh when the Yanks do stupid stuff like this. All of those guys will not be worth the money in three years, and the Yankees are still on the hook for over 20 million per for the next five years. They do it every year, and haven't won a WS in 8 years now. I highly doubt it works this year either.

Since 1996 the Yankees are a whopping 422 games over .500. Their 1262 wins and 840 losses work out to an astounding .600 winning percentage. They have averaged 97 wins a season. They have made the playoffs 12 out of 13 times. They have hung 4 WS banners. They have a legitimate shot to win it all every single year. I would say it's working pretty well for them.

ThatPitchIsDunn
12-23-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm confused now. What do they do with Nick at Nite? Platooning with Nady and Matsui in right and left?

Aces Wild
12-23-2008, 04:12 PM
I actually think their rotation is still pretty weak. Burnett isn't consistant enough to warrant that kind of money, Hughes is still as much of an unknown as Bailey, and this will be Joba's 1st full season starting. Nah, I think the Red Sox and Rays both are better teams even after the half of billion they just laid out.


I will say that I admire the fact that the Yankees actually spend the money they make on players instead of pocketing a large portion of the profits for themselves.......cough Bob.....cough.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Their rotation is weak for a $250 million payroll, but it's still one of the best 1-3 combos in the AL. I wouldn't be surprised if Pettite came back, either. A CC, Wang, Burnette, Pettite, Hughes/Joba rotation could be filthy.

Aces Wild
12-23-2008, 04:21 PM
The Yankees don't pay to win Division titles or make the playoffs they pay to win the WS......and it hasn't happened in 8 years. I agree that a big payroll does make it easier to sustain success, but it isn't necessary to win a championship (the Rays and Marlins come to mind) or even to be consistently competitive (the A's).

Newman4
12-23-2008, 04:21 PM
I'm confused now. What do they do with Nick at Nite? Platooning with Nady and Matsui in right and left?

Good question. They just keep spending money and sort out the pieces later I guess.

Nasty_Boy
12-23-2008, 04:22 PM
I don't see anyway that Tex produces enough to be worth that contract. He's a very good player, but he's only worth that much to one team. Dunn, Burrell, and Abreu will all be better values at 2-4 years and 25-30 to 55-60 million. Tex will not out produce those 3 enough to validate 4 more years and 120 million.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 04:23 PM
You're right; it's not necessary, but it's clear what the Yankees are doing this offseason. They are paying whatever they feel like they need to for a World Series ring. I'm not saying they will win it, but this team will be hard-pressed to not have a good shot come October. Once you get to the playoffs though, like you said, it's all up in the air.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 04:25 PM
I don't see anyway that Tex produces enough to be worth that contract. He's a very good player, but he's only worth that much to one team. Dunn, Burrell, and Abreu will all be better values at 2-4 years and 25-30 to 55-60 million. Tex will not out produce those 3 enough to validate 4 more years and 120 million.

You're right. But the Yankees see:

.290 .378 .541

Not the money.

redsfandan
12-23-2008, 04:36 PM
The Brewers and Blue Jays also lose here. Each team's draft pick from the Yanks is pushed back one round - Texas gets the yankees 1st round pick for Teix, the Brewers get a second-rounder from them for C.C. Sabathia, the Jays get their third-round pick for A.J. Burnett.

chettt
12-23-2008, 04:37 PM
What do they do with Swisher? Trade him to Cincinnati !!!!!!!!:scared::confused::(

redsfandan
12-23-2008, 04:44 PM
They subtracted the salaries of Giambi, Abreu, Mussina, and (for now) Pettitte and replaced them with Teix, Sabathia, Burnett, and Swisher. So their payroll actually won't go up as much as you may think.

As far as the lineup..

Replace this:
CF - Damon
SS - Jeter
1B - Teixiera
3B - Pay-Rod
DH - ManRam
LF - Matsui
C - Hip Hip Jorge
RF - Nady
2B - Cano

With this:
CF - Damon
SS - Jeter
1B - Teixiera
3B - Pay-Rod
DH - Swisher
LF - Matsui
C - Hip Hip Jorge
RF - Nady
2B - Cano

Nasty_Boy
12-23-2008, 04:58 PM
I would love Swisher in Cincy. We need someone that can get on base besides Votto.

ThatPitchIsDunn
12-23-2008, 05:06 PM
They subtracted the salaries of Giambi, Abreu, Mussina, and (for now) Pettitte and replaced them with Teix, Sabathia, Burnett, and Swisher. So their payroll actually won't go up as much as you may think.

As far as the lineup..

Replace this:
CF - Damon
SS - Jeter
1B - Teixiera
3B - Pay-Rod
DH - ManRam
LF - Matsui
C - Hip Hip Jorge
RF - Nady
2B - Cano

With this:
CF - Damon
SS - Jeter
1B - Teixiera
3B - Pay-Rod
DH - Swisher
LF - Matsui
C - Hip Hip Jorge
RF - Nady
2B - Cano

Good call. I was speculating they'd sign Manny, which they really don't need to do. Like the Yanks or not, that lineup is filthy.

SCCBaseball41
12-23-2008, 05:15 PM
MANNY MANNY MANNY!!! Bob wants a winner in Cincy, we need right handed power, nobody wants MANNY anymore (No angels, dodgers, yanks or red sox. Make it happen!!! One of the greatest hitters of all time is a free agent and the Reds need to act now. It would be nice to have some excitement in the Nati again.

TheNext44
12-23-2008, 05:24 PM
The Yanks are still behind the Rays and Red Sox In my opinion. They basically replaced Mussina with CC, Pettite with AJ, Giambi with Tex, Abreau with Swisher. They basically are the same team they were last year, which finished a distant third.

CC=Mussina, AJ=Pettite, Tex>Giambi Swisher<Abreau

Add in that Damon, Jeter, Posoda, Matsui, and Rivera are all a year older, I'd say they aren't as good as they were last year. Their only area of improvement is if Wang is healthy all year.

They just spent a ton of money to stay about the same as last year.

redhawk61
12-23-2008, 05:41 PM
I would love Swisher in Cincy. We need someone that can get on base besides Votto.

No thanks, but Nady would raise an eyebrow

freestyle55
12-23-2008, 06:11 PM
CC=Mussina, AJ=Pettite, Tex>Giambi Swisher<Abreau

I think CC is a definite upgrade from a 39 yr old Mussina, Burnett is at least even with if not an upgrade (assuming he's relatively healthy) from a 36 yr old Pettitte, and Texeira is significantly better than Giambi, and Swisher and Abreu are probably even next year...

The more important thing for the Yankees is that they stopped any of their division rivals from getting those players.

I would be surprised if they don't win the division.

redsfandan
12-23-2008, 07:40 PM
I forgot about Pavano being off the books too. So last year Pavano ($11m), Mussina ($11m), Pettitte ($16m), Giambi ($21M), and Abreau ($16M) totalled $75m.

They have added:

Sabathia 09:$14M, 10-15:$23M annually with $9M signing bonus paid in 3 installments: 12/31/08, 3/1/09, 7/31/09,
Burnett $16.5m/yr for 5 years,
Swisher $5.3m for '09, and
Teix $22.5m/yr for 8 years

That totals $58.3m for '09 (not including the bonuses for Sabathia). So it's possible that they could still add a starting pitcher and actually have a smaller payroll in '09.

They now have the four highest-paid players in Major League Baseball: Teix, ARod, Jeter and Sabathia.
But is Jeter worth $20m+/yr? Will Sabathia still be worth $23m seven years from now? Will Burnett be able to stay healthy to make the 5 year/$82.5m investment worth it? Was Pavano worth $38m for 368 innings pitched over 4 years? Will Teix still be worth $22.5m in 8 years? Was Giambi worth $23m+ in '08? Will Posada be worth almost $40m over the next 3 years?

The yankees like to get attention by throwing alot of money at players. But they've shown that doesn't always mean you get your moneys worth.

FlightRick
12-23-2008, 08:07 PM
Wang just got a new contract today, too, and got a couple million dollars worth of a raise from last year. But I think the essential point remains valid: the Yanks aren't going to be too far off of where their payroll was last year.

I'm a Yankee fan, so I got no problem with this (hey, the precedent is there that this is what the franchise can and will spend on players, so there's no point being shocked or appalled about it; the argument over whether or not the system that ALLOWS them to spend this way is a good system is a whole other matter). And I'd suggest that Yankee Haters shouldn't get too worked up either: since payroll balooned in 2005 (05: $210m, 06: $180m, 07: $180m, 08: $210m, 09: presumably around $210 again), the Yanks have been pretenders come October. Shouldn't that taste even sweeter to you folks, knowing they're "over-spending"?

If I played Armchair GM for a moment, I'd suggest that this notion of the Yanks definitely trading one of their excess OF'ers doesn't necessarily hold any water (just sportswriter speculation after a cursory glance at the current roster).

Fact is: Damon and Matsui are probably untradeable (or else the Yanks would basically have to pay either to play elsewhere).

BUT: both Damon and Matsui are done after 2009, as well, and no way the Yanks resign both (if Damon repeats his 2008 in 2009 AND takes a 2-year-max contract, he MIGHT stick). That leaves the Yankees needing to replace 2 everyday, top-half-of-the-lineup hitters (and about $25 million coming off the books with which to do it). These days, it looks like $25 million is good for ONE (1) elite hitter, not 2, so why not hold onto both of Swisher and Nady for this year, due to the uncertainty of 2010 and beyond? Another team maybe can't afford to do that, but the Yanks can...

Were I to trade one of the two, I'd probably try to flip Nady. He's the one coming off a career year (well, a career HALF-year, as he was back to his .800 OPS'ing average after being traded to the Yanks), he's the cheaper of the two (still 1 or 2 arb years left), and his value will likely never be higher if he doesn't regain last year's first-half form. He might net a useful return. Swisher on the other hand, is coming off a down year (which is why the Yanks got him pretty fricking cheaply) and makes $8m/yr through 2012, and doesn't have the same trade value.

Plus, secretly, I think Swisher is the more valuable of the two (2 years younger, consistent performance especially with his OBP even during down years rather than Nady's one year bump, plus positional flexibility so that the Yanks don't have to ask Posada to honestly be their #2 option at first base when Tex needs a day off), and would love the Yanks to keep him around.

If Nady can be traded for a more bankable back-up catcher (you know, the kind who'd be a starter on any other team, but will only get 150 ABs a year with the Yanks) or young stud catcher prospect to start grooming to take over for the aging Posada, I'd do it. Or maybe for another reliable ML-proven power arm for the bullpen with a decent prospect thrown in. I don't think he's enough to net you a useful SP (and frankly, I'll take my chances on CC/Burnett/Wang/Joba all staying healthy and making it OK to throw some chump like Huges/Kennedy out there every fifth day). If the return isn't strong enough though: keep him in the name of looking ahead to 2010 once Matsui and Damon are gone, and the Yanks will be shopping for either 2 everyday OF'ers or 1 OF'er and a SS (if the mumurring about moving Jeter to the OF due to defensive shortcomings has any validity).

Just my two cents....


Rick


EDITED TO ADD: I forgot to address Melky Cabrera. That's because I'd REALLY love for the Yanks to revisit the deal with Milwaukee where they send Melky there in exchange for Cameron (a move that'd still keeps the Yanks under 2008's payroll). I'm just not sure how Cabrera's managed to be a mostly-everyday player with average OBP skills, no speed to speak of, and utterly inadequate power; unless there's something about him that has the Yankees (or others) convinced he'll follow the same late-blooming career trajectory as Bernie Williams, I'm MORE than happy to jettison him for a one year rental of Mike Cameron (who represents equal OBP skills, an upgrade in speed, a bigger upgrade on defense, and a HUGE upgrade in power).

Bat Cameron 9th next year, and the Yanks have bona fide run producers 1-9, and with Cameron's speed, he's like a Stealth Lead-off Hitter when the line-up flips over and goes back to Damon/Jeter and all their AVG/OBP skills (giving the Yanks tons more offensive flexibility and more RBI chances for their top 2 hitters). Plus, Damon belongs nowhere near CF, and this keeps him on a corner; Cameron's probably strong enough defensively that he also allows for Matsui to play once or twice a week in the OF without totally torpedoing the OF defense.

#1 - LF Damon (l)
#2 - SS Jeter (r)
#3 - 1B Texiera (s)
#4 - 3B A. Rodriquez (r)
#5 - RF Swisher (s)
#6 - DH Matsui (l)
#7 - C Posada (s)
#8 - 2B Cano (l)
#9 - CF Cameron (r)

And Nady's still on the bench. So versatile. So scary. I likey.

Bip Roberts
12-23-2008, 08:44 PM
Swisher would be nice. I think he is going to have a pretty good year next year. He had some major bad luck last season.

ChatterRed
12-23-2008, 09:29 PM
Well, if and when Sabathia and Tex get hurt, I have to admit I will laugh hysterically.

redsfandan
12-23-2008, 10:25 PM
Ya know, while I do think all these moves should improve the yankees in the short term, Imo, it still seems premature to think that they've improved THAT much to be a "lock" to win the division.

And in the long term I think Boston may actually be better off without signing Teix to a long term contract (and I kinda wonder how much they really wanted him). The main benefit of Teix would've been moving Youkilis to 3rd since Lowell always has uncertain health. But Lowell could still be ok and if not they could acquire a 3rd basemen like Beltre for a season and then move Youkilis after the season.

That scenario could be possible because they have arguably the top 1st base prospect in Lars Anderson who could possibly be up by the end of the year. Varitek could still be back possibly as a mentor to one of the catchers from Texas which Boston has shown interest in. And IF that happens their eventual (2010-2015 ) infield (catcher from texas, Anderson, Pedroia, Lowrie, Youkilis) would be much MUCH cheaper, much younger, more athletic, and possibly with comparable overall production to the yankees infield. I already prefer Bostons outfield and their pitchers aren't bad either.

It just seems that Boston shouldn't be counted out (especially since they haven't really done much so far this offseason) and since they rely on more players that don't cost a ton they may have alot more money for one or more upgrade(s) later.

big boy
12-23-2008, 10:56 PM
What will Pujols get when he is a free agent?

TheNext44
12-23-2008, 11:07 PM
I think CC is a definite upgrade from a 39 yr old Mussina, Burnett is at least even with if not an upgrade (assuming he's relatively healthy) from a 36 yr old Pettitte, and Texeira is significantly better than Giambi, and Swisher and Abreu are probably even next year...

The more important thing for the Yankees is that they stopped any of their division rivals from getting those players.

I would be surprised if they don't win the division.

I was only referring to what the Yankee guys did last year vs. what the new guys are expected to do this year. Overall, the new guys are younger and will be around longer, but that was not my point.

Mussina had an incredible year last year, and CC only was dominant pitching in the NL Central. If you assume CC will have similar years to the ones he had while pitching in the AL, then Mussina had a better year last year than what can be expected from CC next year.

AJ should be better than Pettite was last year, but not by much, and many people doubt AJ's makeup in terms of holding up to the pressure of pitching in NY.

Tex is a significant improvement over Giambi, especially on defense. Offensively, Giambi had a steller year last year, but still not as good as Tex is used to.

And there is no way Swisher is as good as Abreu was last year. Even if you assume Swisher will get back to form, he is not as good as Abreu.

Here are the numbers. From a pure offensive side, the Yankees pick up around 12 runs over last year with this new group, which is not enough to put them in the playoffs. And I could see much more than that decline from Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui, and Rivera. So I really don't see the Yankees contending again.



ERA ERA+ WHIP
CC 3.66 121 1.244 -8 runs
MM 3.37 132 1.223

AP 4.54 98 1.412 +10 runs
AJ 4.07 105 1.342

JG .247 .373 .502 +22 runs
MT .308 .410 .552

BA .296 .371 .471 -8 runs
NS .244 .354 .451

CesarGeronimo
12-24-2008, 12:25 AM
What will Pujols get when he is a free agent?

Whatever the Yankees want to give him

redsfandan
12-24-2008, 02:08 AM
Some random thoughts...

If you were gonna pay $20+ million for one bat would you rather have Teix, presumably to stick it to one of your rivals, or would you rather have Manny who puts up better offensive stats and would also be a way to stick it to that same rival?

Would you rather commit to pay a player like he's a MVP for the next 8 years even though he's only finished in the top 10 in the MVP balloting once (7th) or would you rather pay MVP like money for 2-3 years to a player that has finished in the top 10 in the ballot 9 times? (Teix may become an annual top MVP finisher but Manny already is one)

When your team has had trouble in the playoffs and hasn't made it to the world series in the last 5 years wouldn't you want a player that has been a beast in the playoffs in the last 5 years? (Again Manny)

Scott Boras represents both Teix and Manny. Obviously this is a nice deal for Teix but what about Manny? Why would an agent make a move that is great for one client but hurts another client by taking away one of the few really legit bidders for him? Could there be something else in the works?

improbus
12-24-2008, 09:03 AM
Is anyone else hoping that the New Yankee Stadium (and the Cowboys' New Texas Stadium for that matter) is like Howard Hughes' "Spruce Goose" and becomes a money pit that never pays off? With all of these signings, it is almost like they are taking out an advanced credit line on their new stadium. Hopefully it comes back to bite them.

Slyder
12-24-2008, 12:41 PM
ESPN just reported with 16 players the yanks cost is about $185 mil. is that right? Ya its not bad for baseball that NY, Boston, and LA suck up ALL the attention.