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OldRed1966
12-23-2008, 06:02 PM
Xavier Nady could very well be available now with the Yankees signing of Texiera. I would love to see the Reds get him to fill the LF void.

votto08
12-23-2008, 06:31 PM
i believe yankees will try and trade one of there outfielders nady matsui damon swisher and if i am the reds i at least ask what it would take to get nady or someone like swisher either one would be nice left fielder for 1-3yrs while other guys develope in minors

redsfanmia
12-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Nady would be a great fit here I was on the bandwagon of trading for him last summer.

schmidty622
12-23-2008, 11:39 PM
Nady would be great.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 11:57 PM
I can't see New York trading him, though. Not unless they do somehow end up with Manny.

Captain Hook
12-24-2008, 12:20 AM
I don't remember where I saw it but someone with the Yanks did say they would try to trade 1 of there outfielders now that they have Tex.Nady's name was mention.

Captain Hook
12-24-2008, 12:24 AM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12232008/sports/yankees/yankees_learned_expensive_lesson_145601.htm

Here it is.

Griffey012
12-24-2008, 12:56 AM
sign me up for swisher, bring him back to Ohio, put him in this soapbox ball park. And worse case scenario he still obp's above .330.

WildcatFan
12-24-2008, 02:46 AM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12232008/sports/yankees/yankees_learned_expensive_lesson_145601.htm

Here it is.

"In trades, the Yankees should try to add multidimensional players who can help across the diamond, such as the Angels' Chone Figgins (who might even be able to start in center) and Atlanta's Martin Prado."

And Cincinnati's Jeff Keppinger?
I would take a month of Paul Janish (or Hairston if you can resign him) until Alex Gonzalez comes back for Nady.

Hondo
12-24-2008, 11:39 AM
I'd rather have Nick Swisher

Emin3mShady07
12-24-2008, 05:12 PM
Swish would be a steal. He is value is uber low right now as the white sox received jeff marquez, who blows, and wilson betemit, the poor man's version of juan uribe...I didn't know that could even exist :scared: for Swisher. He had a ridiculously low BABIP last year and his IsoD and IsoSlugging stay right in line with his career norms so if he breaks even this year with BABIP and LD% I would say he is easily capable of OPSing in the mid .800s almost .850 or so.

HalMorrisRules
12-24-2008, 05:16 PM
I will go on the record and say I am not opposed at all to the idea of Nady in a Reds uniform this coming season. From what I could find out though, it looks like Nady is arbitration-eligible and can become a free agent after 2009. I wouldnt give up a whole lot for him because of that reason and because his agent is Scott Boras he wont come cheaply or easily if they try to sign him to a longer deal.

Handofdeath
12-24-2008, 05:35 PM
I'd rather have Nick Swisher

I'd rather have David DeJesus. He can play at either OF position and does it pretty good. He's got good speed and he's a good hitter. He led MLB in AVG with RISP hitting a beastly .419 2nd All-Time in Royals history to Brett in 1980 Among AL OF's last year he finished

3rd in AVG (8th overall in the AL)
10th in OBP (Just behind this guy named Josh)
16th in SLG (Playing half his games in a park that could generously be described as "cavernous")

It would probably take Bailey and possibly a prospect to get him but he's a 28 year old LH bat and entering his prime.

1. Dickerson
2. DeJesus
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Encarnacion
6. Phillips
7. Hernandez
8. Nameless SS

If I'm an opposing manager that lineup would definitely make me take notice. The Reds need a good OF bat and the Royals are always looking for talented young SP. I think the Reds and Royals should definitely explore the possibility of a trade involving DeJesus and Bailey because it helps both franchises immensely. It makes perfect sense to me.

TheNext44
12-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Swisher would be great, he should rebound from his terrible year last year. His stats were really funny last year, he actually hit more line drives, but had a much lower BABIP. Strange. That should work itself out next year.

I also like Nady. He doesn't walk a lot, but his sure can hit, and I have always believed that a OBP that is BA driven is better than one that is walk driven. In GABP, he could easily OPS his career of 820 and could possibly hit over 850. He doesn't seem to like the limelight, his best numbers are away from NY, so Cincy should be good for him.


Still, I am not sure that the Yanks want to trade one of these guys. They lose Damon and Matsui next year, so they need depth, and can afford it.

Edd Roush
12-24-2008, 10:27 PM
As stated up in the ORG, I would be satisfied with Swisher or Nady only if some better options are already exhausted.

My plan A is signing Pat Burrell to a 3-year contract. I like this option because it gives us a proven career 129 OPS+ bat. I think the need for outfield defense is overstated; we have a small outfield and we need a big bat to stick between Votto and Bruce.

If Pat is not interested (which I understand is very likely), I would go out and trade Bailey with some minor league pieces for Dye. I like this option because we have a good stick between Votto and Bruce and he won't block Todd Frazier/Joey Votto in left field next year. I still would rather have a proven option in Burrell, but if he doesn't want to sign, I'd be happy with Dye.

Unless Dye gets traded elsewhere, I still think he is a much better option than Nady or Swisher. I think they will be more expensive (talent-wise) than Dye and likely will not produce better than Dye in the short-term.

Edd Roush
12-24-2008, 10:31 PM
I'd rather have David DeJesus. He can play at either OF position and does it pretty good. He's got good speed and he's a good hitter. He led MLB in AVG with RISP hitting a beastly .419 2nd All-Time in Royals history to Brett in 1980 Among AL OF's last year he finished

3rd in AVG (8th overall in the AL)
10th in OBP (Just behind this guy named Josh)
16th in SLG (Playing half his games in a park that could generously be described as "cavernous")

It would probably take Bailey and possibly a prospect to get him but he's a 28 year old LH bat and entering his prime.

1. Dickerson
2. DeJesus
3. Votto
4. Bruce
5. Encarnacion
6. Phillips
7. Hernandez
8. Nameless SS

If I'm an opposing manager that lineup would definitely make me take notice. The Reds need a good OF bat and the Royals are always looking for talented young SP. I think the Reds and Royals should definitely explore the possibility of a trade involving DeJesus and Bailey because it helps both franchises immensely. It makes perfect sense to me.

I would give your props to you for your post, except for the fact that you quoted my second-least favorite baseball stat (BA w/RISP) in defense of DeJesus. Also, I would like a little bit more SLG out of our LF. DeJesus would be a pretty legit option if we can't land Abreu, Burrell or Dye though.

Dunnateher
12-25-2008, 08:13 AM
I think with the way things are going the Reds should just stand pat until Feb. There will be a few decent options to be had late and cheaper than normal. The Reds shouldn't waste what little homegrown talent we have on 30-36 yr. old stopgap measures. Bats are easier to find for leftfield than any other position. A young slick fielding shortstop with some offensive production should be the main focus for now and the rest can be addressed in Feb. I say platoons in lf and cf might be the safest and most productive way plus it doesn't force the younger guys to preform great out of the gate. 2010 looks bright only if the youngsters get some exp. now at the MLB level and I don't mean the young kids (Frazier, Soto, and Francisco) but Dickerson needs 400 ab's and Stubbs should be up in July or Aug. We have struggled for a decade don't sell the farm when we are close to being there with the core we have now. Lock up Bruce, Votto and Alonzo with long deals and shorter deals for Volq. and Cueto.

Edd Roush
12-25-2008, 12:22 PM
. We have struggled for a decade don't sell the farm when we are close to being there with the core we have now. Lock up Bruce, Votto and Alonzo with long deals and shorter deals for Volq. and Cueto.

This strategy would be an option if all of those minor leaguers were a lock to produce for the Reds in 1-2 years. However, many minor leaguers may appear to be contributers in the future but never pan out. That's why the Reds should deal some of these minor leaguers for a legit left-field bat to keep people interested in 2009 and then get that shortstop that will be league average for them in 2010. I hate to wait around for the future and I really don't believe there is such a thing as selling the farm when our farm is so deep and can be replenished with continued international signings.

Emin3mShady07
12-25-2008, 09:41 PM
Swisher would be great, he should rebound from his terrible year last year. His stats were really funny last year, he actually hit more line drives, but had a much lower BABIP. Strange. That should work itself out next year.

I also like Nady. He doesn't walk a lot, but his sure can hit, and I have always believed that a OBP that is BA driven is better than one that is walk driven. In GABP, he could easily OPS his career of 820 and could possibly hit over 850. He doesn't seem to like the limelight, his best numbers are away from NY, so Cincy should be good for him.


Still, I am not sure that the Yanks want to trade one of these guys. They lose Damon and Matsui next year, so they need depth, and can afford it.

If two OBPs are identical, say .350 just to have a number, an OBP driven by batting average would indeed be better. Look at the stat wOBA, a single is worth .77 points and a non intentional BB is worth .62 points so obviously if two hitters had the same amount of PAs and one had more singles, the one with more singles would have a slightly higher wOBA. I mean if Adam Dunn never walked and got a single every time instead, his wOBA/OPS/Slugging would be relatively higher. So yes, in any situation, a hit is better than a walk. The problem is that you do not have many players that have the ability to hit for a high enough average to have a halfway decent OBP. It is a lot "easier" to reach an OBP of .400 than it is to have a BA of .400 or even .380 for that matter. The best hitters in the league usually hit .330 or .340 and without any type of IsoD their OBP's would be nothing special. I know you are not saying that a high, but IsoD driven, OBP is bad, but IMO it is easier to attain than a .380 BA. But yes any day of the week I would take a .400 hitter with a .405 OBP over a .240 hitter with a .410 OBP as long as their slugging % was relatively close because this would most likely mean that the high BA player has a higher weighted on base average (wOBA).

Road Pop
12-26-2008, 02:31 AM
WoW. I just wanted some decent starters for the Reds. All the stats will make someones head explode before long.



But, I can't wait for spring training to compare them! The pitching will be GREAT!

Slyder
12-26-2008, 03:00 AM
If the Yanks are looking to move an OF that leaves at the end of the year anyways I'd take Nady in a millisecond. Many players struggle in the microscope that is NY let him get back to being one of the guys on any other teams (like in Pittsbugh). He'd be a very solid bat (maybe not superstar) but he should provide decent amount of power. I'd bat him 5th behind Votto and Bruce. (Yes I believe you put your best bats 3-5 regardless and IMO Bruce>Nady).

Kingspoint
12-26-2008, 05:15 PM
I think with the way things are going the Reds should just stand pat until Feb. There will be a few decent options to be had late and cheaper than normal. The Reds shouldn't waste what little homegrown talent we have on 30-36 yr. old stopgap measures. Bats are easier to find for leftfield than any other position. A young slick fielding shortstop with some offensive production should be the main focus for now and the rest can be addressed in Feb. I say platoons in lf and cf might be the safest and most productive way plus it doesn't force the younger guys to preform great out of the gate. 2010 looks bright only if the youngsters get some exp. now at the MLB level and I don't mean the young kids (Frazier, Soto, and Francisco) but Dickerson needs 400 ab's and Stubbs should be up in July or Aug. We have struggled for a decade don't sell the farm when we are close to being there with the core we have now. Lock up Bruce, Votto and Alonzo with long deals and shorter deals for Volq. and Cueto.

Couldn't agree more.

BLEEDS
12-26-2008, 05:43 PM
This strategy would be an option if all of those minor leaguers were a lock to produce for the Reds in 1-2 years. However, many minor leaguers may appear to be contributers in the future but never pan out. That's why the Reds should deal some of these minor leaguers for a legit left-field bat to keep people interested in 2009 and then get that shortstop that will be league average for them in 2010. I hate to wait around for the future and I really don't believe there is such a thing as selling the farm when our farm is so deep and can be replenished with continued international signings.

Agreed.

But, we shouldn't trade Bailey, a couple years ago, he was a lock to be a TOR guy.
We should be able to trade Arroyo now and just plug Homer in, right?!?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Bip Roberts
12-26-2008, 06:17 PM
We should sign a vet like Josh Fogg since no other options can be better

Newman4
12-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Agreed.

But, we shouldn't trade Bailey, a couple years ago, he was a lock to be a TOR guy.
We should be able to trade Arroyo now and just plug Homer in, right?!?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Would Arroyo be an option to the Yankees?

Edd Roush
12-26-2008, 11:38 PM
Agreed.

But, we shouldn't trade Bailey, a couple years ago, he was a lock to be a TOR guy.
We should be able to trade Arroyo now and just plug Homer in, right?!?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

My heart certainly agrees with that sentiment, but my head doesn't agree.

As much as Arroyo annoys me with his hair, the JTM commercials and the outings he just goes out there and gets pounded (any one else remember Bronson @ Atlanta last year?), statistics say that Bronson is a legit league average starter and is worth every penny we pay him. If we want to give the Cubs a run this year or next, we are going to need him in the rotation.

Homer Bailey, on the other hand, represented something great for the longest time. He seemed like he was going to be our first home-grown ace since Don Gullet. I remember skipping a beer-league softball game to watch Homer Bailey's first start. And even though he won that first start, he never has pitched like a big league ace or even a league-average (Bronson level) pitcher in the majors. Sure, some in the ORG like doug, will say that Homer's playoff start shows a flash of what we all saw from him back in early 2007.

My problem with Homer is that he is all flashes. I understand a lot of young pitchers are very similar (Volquez with the Rangers), but I am very happy with our rotation for the long-term. I really think Micah Owings is a better bet to produce a league-average season than Homer Bailey over the next two seasons. Plus, I know this is a case of small sample sizes, but the fact remains that Ramon Ramierez has outperformed Homer Bailey on the major league level.

If I can acquire my Dunn-level bat (Dye) for the cost of little more than Homer Bailey, I pull the trigger. Especially considering the fact that Dye will give us an above league average bat for 2009, will not block Frazier and could turn into a first round pick especially if he hits 35 home runs again and becomes a Type A free agent.

I would much prefer a Bailey plus low level minor leaguers for Dye trade than an Arroyo for Nady trade. I really think Bronson is going to be a major cog in our team next year and I would love to have both him and Dye going into next season.

BLEEDS
12-27-2008, 02:37 AM
I was being SARCASTIC!!!

;)

:rolleyes:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

REDblooded
12-27-2008, 02:53 AM
If any of you weren't willing to give up on Dunn, and are willing to give up on Bailey, who has far more talent, a stronger competitive spirit, and is cheaper and younger, please forget your password and just stop typing here...

Seriously, it'll benefit everybody.

Edd Roush
12-27-2008, 02:58 AM
I was being SARCASTIC!!!

;)

:rolleyes:

PEACE

-BLEEDS


Sarcasm, my only weakness :doh:

Edd Roush
12-27-2008, 03:07 AM
If any of you weren't willing to give up on Dunn, and are willing to give up on Bailey, who has far more talent, a stronger competitive spirit, and is cheaper and younger, please forget your password and just stop typing here...

Seriously, it'll benefit everybody.


Weren't willing to give up on Dunn when? He has produced at least a 114 OPS+ his entire career.

What has Homer Bailey done on the major league level outside of a few flashes in the pan? Do I want Homer Bailey to succeed? Hell yea, but would I rather have a much more proven commodity such as one year of Jermaine Dye rather than the question marks of Homer Bailey, Hell yea as well. It's not as much as I'm "ready to give up" on Homer Bailey as much as I view him still as an unknown and I would rather cash him in for Dye than I would like to see him falter in AAA this year and have him lose any luster he may still have as a top prospect. I wish Homer only the best, but he has had many opportunities to impress me and so far he has fallen short.

And where do you come off saying that Homer Bailey has a better competitive spirit than Adam Dunn. I would figure you may have an argument with someone like Ryan Freel, but others here on Redszone have come down hard on Bailey for reading hunting magazines in the bullpen. Do I believe this has any substantive effect on his performance for the Reds? No, but I also do not believe that the fact that Adam Dunn not running to his position has any effect on his performance as well.

Why did you have to bring Adam Dunn into this thread for any intents and purposes other than to bring up another option for leftfield. None of us on the 'Zone know about how much of a "competitive spirit" Adam Dunn nor Homer Bailey really have and for you to speculate that Homer Bailey who has not accomplished anything in a Cincinnati Reds uniform has a "stronger competitive spirit" than Adam Dunn is completely assanine.

I'm not going to get into the talent of Adam Dunn nor Homer Bailey, it would be like comparing apples and oranges.

Newman4
12-27-2008, 01:19 PM
If I can acquire my Dunn-level bat (Dye) for the cost of little more than Homer Bailey, I pull the trigger. Especially considering the fact that Dye will give us an above league average bat for 2009, will not block Frazier and could turn into a first round pick especially if he hits 35 home runs again and becomes a Type A free agent.

How about just signing Burrell for about the same $$$ and keep Bailey?

Edd Roush
12-27-2008, 01:35 PM
How about just signing Burrell for about the same $$$ and keep Bailey?

I agree, that's the idea I have been promoting. Burrell would be a three year fix to our leftfield/right-handed bat woes and would mean that the longer-term plan didn't force us to rely on Todd Frazier. However, the whole thing about just signing Burrell is that he has to want to come to Cincinnati where we haven't been to the playoffs in over a decade. I would be very happy if we could sign Burrell and Baldelli to plattoon with Dickerson and then trade some minor leaguers for that young shortstop, but to sign Burrell and Baldelli they have to want to come here.

REDblooded
12-27-2008, 02:24 PM
What has Homer Bailey done on the major league level outside of a few flashes in the pan? Do I want Homer Bailey to succeed? Hell yea, but would I rather have a much more proven commodity such as one year of Jermaine Dye rather than the question marks of Homer Bailey, Hell yea as well. It's not as much as I'm "ready to give up" on Homer Bailey as much as I view him still as an unknown and I would rather cash him in for Dye than I would like to see him falter in AAA this year and have him lose any luster he may still have as a top prospect. I wish Homer only the best, but he has had many opportunities to impress me and so far he has fallen short.

Trading a potential talent like Homer Bailey for a one year rental like Jermaine Dye when you are the Cincinnati Reds and have absolutely ZERO chance at winning a World Series during the perspective players tenure is not only "ready to give up", it's also an incredibly stupid baseball move for a medium market team.



And where do you come off saying that Homer Bailey has a better competitive spirit than Adam Dunn. I would figure you may have an argument with someone like Ryan Freel, but others here on Redszone have come down hard on Bailey for reading hunting magazines in the bullpen. Do I believe this has any substantive effect on his performance for the Reds? No, but I also do not believe that the fact that Adam Dunn not running to his position has any effect on his performance as well.

Reading hunting magazines while you're not on the field isn't an indicator of a lack of being competitive... A lack of focus? Definitely.

As far as Dunn running to the outfield, outside of the fact that it probably would've done his cardio some good and got the blood flowing to his brain, I could care less about that. That's little league.



Why did you have to bring Adam Dunn into this thread for any intents and purposes other than to bring up another option for leftfield. None of us on the 'Zone know about how much of a "competitive spirit" Adam Dunn nor Homer Bailey really have and for you to speculate that Homer Bailey who has not accomplished anything in a Cincinnati Reds uniform has a "stronger competitive spirit" than Adam Dunn is completely assanine.

I'm not going to get into the talent of Adam Dunn nor Homer Bailey, it would be like comparing apples and oranges.

I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the reason Homer Bailey gets so upset after an error, or after a bad pitch (kid wears his emotions on his sleeve about as much as any player I've seen, is because he is HYPER-competitive. He WANTS to not just succeed, but be dominant, and once he develops the maturity to reign in the emotions a bit, he will be.

As for the talent levels of the two players, poor example on my part... Dunn has TONS of it too, but he's at the age now where you can safely say he'll never reach it. You can't say the same about Bailey.

Edd Roush
12-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Trading a potential talent like Homer Bailey for a one year rental like Jermaine Dye when you are the Cincinnati Reds and have absolutely ZERO chance at winning a World Series during the perspective players tenure is not only "ready to give up", it's also an incredibly stupid baseball move for a medium market team.

Well, the Reds are going to have to create runs somewhere in the line-up next year to keep crowds over 10,000 a night, especially after signing Willy Taveres. I am sick of waiting on potential. Give me a bat who will produce for one year and then get the compensation pick when he leaves.


Reading hunting magazines while you're not on the field isn't an indicator of a lack of being competitive... A lack of focus? Definitely.

As far as Dunn running to the outfield, outside of the fact that it probably would've done his cardio some good and got the blood flowing to his brain, I could care less about that. That's little league.
That was sort of my point. Both accusations are ridiculous. But then lose all credibility by saying that Dunn needs some cardio.



I can tell you without a single shred of doubt that the reason Homer Bailey gets so upset after an error, or after a bad pitch (kid wears his emotions on his sleeve about as much as any player I've seen, is because he is HYPER-competitive. He WANTS to not just succeed, but be dominant, and once he develops the maturity to reign in the emotions a bit, he will be.

As for the talent levels of the two players, poor example on my part... Dunn has TONS of it too, but he's at the age now where you can safely say he'll never reach it. You can't say the same about Bailey.

Again, where do you get off saying that Dunn has never reached his potential. If a GM would be able to draft a player and ensure that he would have a career OPS+ of 130 over 6 seasons and never get injured, you can bet he would be a top 5 pick. Adam Dunn exceeded expectations in his time here. He was the bat who will never be properly appreciated because he played on many bad ball teams and wasn't a small ball player. It's truly a shame.