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View Full Version : Out-of-left-field.....would you give Manny a 55 million 2 year deal?



red-in-la
12-23-2008, 08:13 PM
Would Jocketty and Castellini have the guts? Could the Reds afford it?

Would it mean you could place the order with the printer for playoff tickets?

I really don't like Manny Ramirez, but the guy is a plain dead-on force. Place him between Votto and Bruce and just start counting the RBI's.

Thoughts?

hebroncougar
12-23-2008, 08:59 PM
I wouldn't touch him with Hank Steinbrenner's money.

Highlifeman21
12-23-2008, 09:00 PM
That would be a bigger burned pile of cash than what the Yankees just gave Marky Mark.

marcshoe
12-23-2008, 09:14 PM
He's one of the best hitters I've seen in my life, so I'm reluctant to say no, but....I don't know. I've always defended him, but last year in Boston was inexcusable. I get the feeling that if you put him on a team that foundered badly, it wouldn't be pretty.

KronoRed
12-23-2008, 09:21 PM
For that money go get Dunn and Dye.

Crosley68
12-23-2008, 09:25 PM
I am not sure I would take him at league minimum, so 55 Mil is out of the question.

marcshoe
12-23-2008, 09:30 PM
I hadn't even paid attention to the dollar amount. 55 million for two years? A definite no. Even if Manny wasn't Manny.

Always Red
12-23-2008, 09:32 PM
Manny would hate it here, he would never be on board, and be a complete distraction the entire time. Think Chad Johnson, squared.

No thanks.

HeatherC1212
12-23-2008, 09:41 PM
Meh, I don't think so. He's not someone I want in the clubhouse with Volquez, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, or any of the other young guys. I don't want his bad attitude influencing anyone on our club. :eek:

BTW-This is finally post #600 for me! I thought I'd never get there, LOL :lol:

Kc61
12-23-2008, 10:05 PM
Meh, I don't think so. He's not someone I want in the clubhouse with Volquez, Votto, Bruce, Cueto, or any of the other young guys. I don't want his bad attitude influencing anyone on our club. :eek:

:


Yeah, he might teach them about hitting the baseball, doing it in the clutch, hitting in big spots, hitting in big games.

Guy single handedly put the Dodgers in the playoffs last year. First ballot Hall of Famer hitting as well as ever. Would transform the offense overnight.

I guess he doesn't fit the profile for the Reds.

Good thread idea, BTW.

sonny
12-23-2008, 10:19 PM
I would for $5 and a cup of lukewarm Cincinnati Chili.

WMR
12-23-2008, 10:44 PM
27.5 million per? God no.

Unassisted
12-23-2008, 10:47 PM
Yes, but will Manny take a 2-year deal? I doubt it.

I'd like to think that Manny would be less of a negative influence playing for Dusty. Dusty would really earn his money if he could make that happen.

I also doubt there's enough left in Bob's wallet to make that deal, since he's already announced he isn't raising ticket prices. If Bob has that kind of dough lying around, he should be lowering ticket prices!

Mario-Rijo
12-23-2008, 11:10 PM
Yes, but will Manny take a 2-year deal? I doubt it.

I'd like to think that Manny would be less of a negative influence playing for Dusty. Dusty would really earn his money if he could make that happen.

I also doubt there's enough left in Bob's wallet to make that deal, since he's already announced he isn't raising ticket prices. If Bob has that kind of dough lying around, he should be lowering ticket prices!

No he and Boras would just take that figure straight to LA and they would at least match it. Meaning unless you go more than 3 years Manny ain't coming here. And I would consider it for 2 years or less and I cannot stand the guy, but 3 years or more...no thanks.

flyer85
12-23-2008, 11:17 PM
neither left nor right

Krusty
12-23-2008, 11:43 PM
I tell Boras it's a one year deal for 25 million. If the Reds are out of come the July trading deadline, you move him to a big market team for prospects. But for a one year rental........it might be worth it.

GADawg
12-23-2008, 11:52 PM
love him or hate him, if he did for the Reds what he did for L.A. then the answer is yes.

I'd say Torre hated his arse until the trading deadline last year.

Caveat Emperor
12-24-2008, 01:05 AM
27.5 million per? God no.

He'd certainly solve a good portion of the offensive dilemma facing this team, and doesn't cost anything other than money.

Guys with career average OPSs of over 1.000 don't exactly grow on trees. At GABP, you could probably pencil him in for 35 HRs, .300+ AVG, .400 OBP, and .600 SLG as your baseline.

Is he worth 27.5 million per year? No -- no player is right now. But, if the wallet can open wide enough, I'd bring him to town.

Marc D
12-24-2008, 01:19 AM
I'd do it for no other reason than watching Marty and the rest of the Reds media guys having to deal with Manny on a daily basis.

They'd be begging for the simple days gone by when their biggest gripe was our best hitter didn't run out to his position.

Highlifeman21
12-24-2008, 08:25 AM
I'd do it for no other reason than watching Marty and the rest of the Reds media guys having to deal with Manny on a daily basis.

They'd be begging for the simple days gone by when their biggest gripe was our best hitter didn't run out to his position.

You convinced me.

Pay Manny his money!

bucksfan2
12-24-2008, 08:33 AM
I do this in a heartbeat. It would be an absurd contract but it would put the Reds right up there as favorite to win the division. I used to think Manny was on of the best hitters of my generation, now I think he IS the best hitter of my generation. He carried to Dodgers into the playoffs last season and would have a substantial amount of trade value as a Red.

The price tag is steep but the rewards could be very fruitful. Also it wouldn't be a long contract and hamstring the club for years. I kind of liken Manny to Dennis Rodman. Rodman was a side show in his self when it came to basketball but when the pressure started to build he was money. You put Manny in between Votto and Bruce and Votto turns into an all star and Bruce is over the 100 RBI mark in his second year in the bigs.

Jpup
12-24-2008, 08:34 AM
Manny is not going to get 55 million. I would get the Dodgers will get him for about 48 and that's probably a little high. The Dodgers are the only team that's going to be in on him.

Krusty
12-24-2008, 09:45 AM
Manny will go where the most money is. Texieria did the same thing. They all do.

Take what the Reds paid for Dunn and Griffey and give it to Manny. At most, a two-year deal. If not, then move on but the alternatives don't even come close to acquiring Ramirez.

mth123
12-24-2008, 09:49 AM
I bet Manny doesn't even know where Cincinnati is on the map and probably wouldn't consider the Reds at all. I'd pay him $25 Million a year for a couple years, but I'd guess some one will match that in a place that he already has in mind. I'd be surprised if the Dodgers don't end up with him. They need him even more than the Reds do.

Krusty
12-24-2008, 10:09 AM
I bet Manny doesn't even know where Cincinnati is on the map and probably wouldn't consider the Reds at all. I'd pay him $25 Million a year for a couple years, but I'd guess some one will match that in a place that he already has in mind. I'd be surprised if the Dodgers don't end up with him. They need him even more than the Reds do.


He did play for Cleveland though.

mth123
12-24-2008, 10:15 AM
He did play for Cleveland though.

Not by choice. He was drafted by the Indians in 1991. He left as a FA and went to Boston when he was first eligible. Then forced a trade to a place where he would go (which happened to be LA).

Chip R
12-24-2008, 12:54 PM
I bet Manny doesn't even know where Cincinnati is on the map and probably wouldn't consider the Reds at all. I'd pay him $25 Million a year for a couple years, but I'd guess some one will match that in a place that he already has in mind. I'd be surprised if the Dodgers don't end up with him. They need him even more than the Reds do.


Throw in a GPS for free.

Crosley68
12-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Yeah, he might teach them about hitting the baseball, doing it in the clutch, hitting in big spots, hitting in big games.

Guy single handedly put the Dodgers in the playoffs last year. First ballot Hall of Famer hitting as well as ever. Would transform the offense overnight.

I guess he doesn't fit the profile for the Reds.

Good thread idea, BTW.

He also might teach them about quitting on your team and how to knock down 62 year-old-men when they dont move quick enough for you or say yes sir loud enough.

Remember you get both Mannys.....not just the one you want.

Krusty
12-24-2008, 01:45 PM
He also might teach them about quitting on your team and how to knock down 62 year-old-men when they dont move quick enough for you or say yes sir loud enough.

Remember you get both Mannys.....not just the one you want.

The Kevin Mitchell of this decade

Roy Tucker
12-24-2008, 02:28 PM
If he would hit like Manny can hit and not be a major pain in the neck, I'd say yes.

But I think the Reds are still a ways away from real contention and Manny would get bored with not being on a winning team around next August and start acting up. And then it would be 50 miles of bad road.

Pass.

hippie07
12-24-2008, 02:28 PM
I would do it ... i would be ecstatic if the Reds did this... yeah, it would be odd ... yeah manny has his faults ... but wow! this type of signing would restore my faith in the reds desire to win ... right or wrong .. the Reds would be fun to watch!!!

TRF
12-24-2008, 02:59 PM
Pass. This team isn't Manny away from post season play. Get me a stud SS that can pick it and a quality LF (I hear Dunn still hasn't signed yet). Guarantee me that Cueto is goinng to improve and that Harang returns to 2007 form.

That's what the Reds need.

Kc61
12-24-2008, 04:57 PM
If he would hit like Manny can hit and not be a major pain in the neck, I'd say yes.

But I think the Reds are still a ways away from real contention and Manny would get bored with not being on a winning team around next August and start acting up. And then it would be 50 miles of bad road.

Pass.

I know this is the approach some folks have (maybe even Walt) when it comes to acquisitions. Wait until the team is one player away and then go out and get that player.

I happen to disagree with it. The team may never be good with that approach because teams don't progress in a linear fashion. You never know from one year to the next whether you will be "one player away" or two players away or perhaps in disarray.

Injuries are unpredictable. Career turnarounds happen. Very few predictable performances from one year to the next.

So, the Reds GM should try to make the major league team better every year. In the case of Manny -- or some other veteran big bat -- a two-year deal would give the Reds a couple of seasons to put things together. If it doesn't work then at least fans would have had some reason to follow the team and some hope that the Reds could compete.

As for the money, obviously he would be expensive but I think ownership owes it to the fans to make a major acquisition this year. It's hard to see fans getting excited about the Reds as they stand today and with Dunn and Griffey gone something new and exciting is needed.

Obviously Ramirez is a major long shot, but there are other guys. Dye. I'd even be ok with Nady if available. Or is Xavier Nady now out of the Reds' reach also?

My guess has been that Walt will make a big acquisition later in the off-season when free agent prices come down and when teams (like perhaps the Chisox) realize that they aren't getting a huge return for certain players they are trying to trade.

blumj
12-24-2008, 06:38 PM
That might have just been a Manny-specific concern. He's been known to quit when his team falls out of contention.

Will M
12-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Manny is a lazy jerk. I wouldn't want him on the Reds if we paid him the league minimum. Honest.

hippie07
12-24-2008, 08:59 PM
Pass. This team isn't Manny away from post season play. Get me a stud SS that can pick it and a quality LF (I hear Dunn still hasn't signed yet). Guarantee me that Cueto is goinng to improve and that Harang returns to 2007 form.

That's what the Reds need.

Wouldn't manny be the LF (at least as defensive-minded as Dunn). it will be difficult to get a "stud SS" ... but we could easily have a guy like Andino w/ decent defense & offense... and w/ Manny's bat... i mean... that's pretty darn close to the best we can get to a "sure thing" because nothing is ever a "sure thing", but that's definitely a decent shot.

TRF
12-24-2008, 09:06 PM
No team that gets Manny is going to be hurt except in the pocketbook. But with today's revenue, the new MLB network, EVERY team can afford him. Even the Reds. But what the Reds need right now is to solidify SS. AGon NOT playing winter ball is a red flag, and the Reds cannot afford Kepp's defense at SS. Shortstop is the biggest priority this team has right now.

Going after a name LF right now isn't what the Reds need to do.

Besides, Manny's agent, SATAN, would just use the offer to get even more money from the Dodgers or Yankees.

4256 Hits
12-24-2008, 09:32 PM
I'd do it for no other reason than watching Marty and the rest of the Reds media guys having to deal with Manny on a daily basis.

They'd be begging for the simple days gone by when their biggest gripe was our best hitter didn't run out to his position.

If your goal is to drive Marty crazy (which I like) then you should wish for the Reds to re-sign Dunn. :D

camisadelgolf
12-25-2008, 12:19 PM
As much as I would want to do it, if I were the Reds, I just couldn't. It's simply too much money. We're talking about pushing the payroll to $90 million without addressing the big need at shortstop.

Highlifeman21
12-25-2008, 12:51 PM
If your goal is to drive Marty crazy (which I like) then you should wish for the Reds to re-sign Dunn. :D

What if in this land of make believe, the Reds signed Dunn & Planet Man-Ram to drive Franchester crazy?

Marc D
12-25-2008, 01:11 PM
What if in this land of make believe, the Reds signed Dunn & Planet Man-Ram to drive Franchester crazy?

I would round out the OF with Milton Bradley and then hire a call center to flood Marty with calls from a RZ created OBP phone script anytime he did a call in show.

Highlifeman21
12-25-2008, 04:25 PM
I would round out the OF with Milton Bradley and then hire a call center to flood Marty with calls from a RZ created OBP phone script anytime he did a call in show.

Man-Ram/Bradley/Dunn

Worst defensive OF in MLB, and possibly MLB history.

However, that OF would absolutely rake, and drive Franchester nuts in the process, which is the most important part of the equation.

remdog
12-25-2008, 04:40 PM
Man-Ram/Bradley/Dunn

Worst defensive OF in MLB, and possibly MLB history.

However, that OF would absolutely rake, and drive Franchester nuts in the process, which is the most important part of the equation.

I like it! Even if the Reds ended up 6th in the division, listening to Marty blow a gasket would be great fun.

Are there any psych wards near GAB? :lol:

Rem

Highlifeman21
12-25-2008, 11:15 PM
I like it! Even if the Reds ended up 6th in the division, listening to Marty blow a gasket would be great fun.

Are there any psych wards near GAB? :lol:

Rem

IIRC, the closest one is @ UC's hospital.

red-in-la
12-26-2008, 12:34 AM
Manny is a lazy jerk. I wouldn't want him on the Reds if we paid him the league minimum. Honest.

Yeah.......really lazy......whatever he is drinlin', send a bottle to all of our other outfielders!

.332 BA, 37 HR's, 121 RBI's, .430 OBP, .601 SLG%

Caveat Emperor
12-26-2008, 02:42 AM
As much as I would want to do it, if I were the Reds, I just couldn't. It's simply too much money. We're talking about pushing the payroll to $90 million without addressing the big need at shortstop.

True.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that the need at shortstop is going to go unattended to, even if the payroll is far under $90 million.

Roy Tucker
12-26-2008, 11:51 AM
I know this is the approach some folks have (maybe even Walt) when it comes to acquisitions. Wait until the team is one player away and then go out and get that player.

I happen to disagree with it. The team may never be good with that approach because teams don't progress in a linear fashion. You never know from one year to the next whether you will be "one player away" or two players away or perhaps in disarray.

Injuries are unpredictable. Career turnarounds happen. Very few predictable performances from one year to the next.

So, the Reds GM should try to make the major league team better every year. In the case of Manny -- or some other veteran big bat -- a two-year deal would give the Reds a couple of seasons to put things together. If it doesn't work then at least fans would have had some reason to follow the team and some hope that the Reds could compete.

As for the money, obviously he would be expensive but I think ownership owes it to the fans to make a major acquisition this year. It's hard to see fans getting excited about the Reds as they stand today and with Dunn and Griffey gone something new and exciting is needed.

Obviously Ramirez is a major long shot, but there are other guys. Dye. I'd even be ok with Nady if available. Or is Xavier Nady now out of the Reds' reach also?

My guess has been that Walt will make a big acquisition later in the off-season when free agent prices come down and when teams (like perhaps the Chisox) realize that they aren't getting a huge return for certain players they are trying to trade.

Good comments. Yeah, I'd like Walt to make a big splash too and sometimes improvement into contention can be a unpredictable thing.

My fear about Manny is that he is not know for his stellar maturity and team leadership. Manny plays for Manny, period. If Manny doesn't feel like playing, he shuts it down. Which is all fine since it is a well-known thing and you know what you're getting ahead of time. If the Reds could keep him motivated, he could be an excellent addition. I think he's about the best pure hitter in MLB.

I'm just afraid that he could be poison to guys like Bruce and Votto (and Phillips and EE and ...) if the Reds slump extensively. At the kind of money Manny wants, that's a pretty large gamble to take. But I suppose that's why they pay WJ the big bucks.

Ltlabner
12-27-2008, 09:44 AM
Smart businesses don't build around a lunatic.

Adding a looney to push you over the top is one thing. Making him the cornerstone of your orginization is quite another.

hebroncougar
12-27-2008, 01:40 PM
For those who are all about Dickerson being so much better than Taveras:

Chris Dickerson's career minor league numbers:

.260 .360 .415 .775

Willy Taveras' career minor league numbers:

.288 .355 .361 .716

Dickerson is about 4 months younger, and has about 120 career PA's in the show. Taveras has spent roughly 3 1/2 seasons in the show and has roughly 2100 PA's. From stolen base numbers, Dickerson doesn't have nearly the speed Taveras does. Neither is going to be an all star, I think you can start one of them and get by with it, if you get a big bat for LF (Dye? Burrell? Dunn?).

Caveat Emperor
12-27-2008, 01:45 PM
For those who are all about Dickerson being so much better than Taveras:

Chris Dickerson's career minor league numbers:

.260 .360 .415 .775

Willy Taveras' career minor league numbers:

.288 .355 .361 .716

Dickerson is about 4 months younger, and has about 120 career PA's in the show. Taveras has spent roughly 3 1/2 seasons in the show and has roughly 2100 PA's. From stolen base numbers, Dickerson doesn't have nearly the speed Taveras does. Neither is going to be an all star, I think you can start one of them and get by with it, if you get a big bat for LF (Dye? Burrell? Dunn?).

Dickerson is a better defender than Taveras, he's far cheaper than Taveras, requires no guaranteed money, and his 6 HRs in 120 PAs are already just 1 shy of Taveras' 7 FOR HIS CAREER.

Dickerson wins in a bloody landslide as far as I'm concerned.

blumj
12-27-2008, 03:29 PM
For those who are all about Dickerson being so much better than Taveras:

Chris Dickerson's career minor league numbers:

.260 .360 .415 .775

Willy Taveras' career minor league numbers:

.288 .355 .361 .716

Dickerson is about 4 months younger, and has about 120 career PA's in the show. Taveras has spent roughly 3 1/2 seasons in the show and has roughly 2100 PA's. From stolen base numbers, Dickerson doesn't have nearly the speed Taveras does. Neither is going to be an all star, I think you can start one of them and get by with it, if you get a big bat for LF (Dye? Burrell? Dunn?).
Not comparable.

remdog
12-27-2008, 08:22 PM
For those who are all about Dickerson being so much better than Taveras:

Chris Dickerson's career minor league numbers:

.260 .360 .415 .775

Willy Taveras' career minor league numbers:

.288 .355 .361 .716

Dickerson is about 4 months younger, and has about 120 career PA's in the show. Taveras has spent roughly 3 1/2 seasons in the show and has roughly 2100 PA's. From stolen base numbers, Dickerson doesn't have nearly the speed Taveras does. Neither is going to be an all star, I think you can start one of them and get by with it, if you get a big bat for LF (Dye? Burrell? Dunn?).

It doesn't take numbers to tell that Tavaras is a t**d taco that you don't want to bite into. Even if you are blind you can tell by the smell.

Rem

CrackerJack
12-27-2008, 11:41 PM
Yes I would give Manny the dough and buy another available arm or bat to boot.

The Reds dumped a bunch of salary last year and need to quit being so Bengal-like.

I can't see Bruce/Votto/Edwin/Phillips carrying a team yet, if ever, I question if the Reds are just trying to be "competitive," or if Castellini isn't just full of it, and is not gutsy enough to be anything more than competitive.

Falls City Beer
12-27-2008, 11:43 PM
I can't see Bruce/Votto/Edwin/Phillips carrying a team yet, if ever, I question if the Reds are just trying to be "competitive," or if Castellini isn't just full of it, and is not gutsy enough to be anything more than competitive.

Castellini's pretty obviously reneging on his payroll boost promises. Lot of poormouth from the FO this offseason.

membengal
12-27-2008, 11:44 PM
My views on this kind of "splash" have been changed by the Taveras signing. Would Manny represent the best chance to cover for Taveras' damage? Yes. Soooo, even with his baggage, I would be so inclined, I guess.